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| Messages 1 - 79 of total 79 in this topic |
Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Oct 25, 2007 - 02:07pm PT
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Kick Assssssssss™
I've always wondered why there ain't stiffs stacked like cordwood at the base of El Cap. Now I know..... the shiiit just ain't that hard.
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susan peplow
climber
www.joshuatreevacationhomes.com
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Oct 25, 2007 - 02:31pm PT
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That's some nice action there. What kinda mystery drink was he working.... grey goose & coke?
Love the line, "I'm not good enough" we use a similar one all the time, "flat not good enough". Comes in handy.
Get this guy to the sushi-fest!
~Susan
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Oct 25, 2007 - 02:36pm PT
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"Even a fairly incompitant aid climber could do A5."
whatever....
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Oct 25, 2007 - 03:41pm PT
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No wonder so many people bail off el cap, must be the boredom setting in on all the A5's.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 25, 2007 - 03:50pm PT
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Russ wrote
"I've always wondered why there ain't stiffs stacked like cordwood at the base of El Cap. Now I know..... the shiiit just ain't that hard."
I haven't read the link yet but it's true that, considering a fall on the hard aid is supposed to hurt, there haven't been that many...
except I did read a scary story of death on some crackpot's web site once.....
;-)
Karl
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atchafalaya
climber
California
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Oct 25, 2007 - 03:50pm PT
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rick lovelace was right
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Oct 25, 2007 - 03:51pm PT
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what'd lovelace have to say about it?
I thought the aid climbing rant was pretty funny.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 25, 2007 - 04:14pm PT
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lol.
runout 5.10's are not that hard either. i mean its only 5.10...
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Oct 25, 2007 - 04:25pm PT
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Fvckin great. Gotta love Chris
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Oct 25, 2007 - 04:35pm PT
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Looks like Cochamó Valley down in Chile? If it is, getting rained out comes with the territory, and how much further behind can the boozing and talking sh#t be, just to pass the time.
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adventurewagen
Trad climber
Seattle
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Oct 25, 2007 - 04:46pm PT
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Karl Wrote about what Russ Wrote :)
"Russ wrote
"I've always wondered why there ain't stiffs stacked like cordwood at the base of El Cap. Now I know..... the shiiit just ain't that hard."
I haven't read the link yet but it's true that, considering a fall on the hard aid is supposed to hurt, there haven't been that many...
except I did read a scary story of death on some crackpot's web site once.....
;-)
Karl "
Me too. I'd have to guess the story is true ??? but maybe the man himself "Russ" can elaborate/clarify then send a link to Chris "Aid ain't hard" Kalous if he wants. Aside from an unbelievable story I can't find anything on the climb, no topo, nothing even on the event.
It sure would back up that A5 is for REAL! Sick.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Oct 25, 2007 - 04:47pm PT
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I know the guy is just spraying after a few drinks, and he probly doesn't take himself too seriously.
but something about his attitude really irks me...
I think his rehearsed rant is just an chance to spray about his own fall on a rurp or A5 climbs or whatever.
the reason you don't see people dying on A5 is that for noobs don't climb A5. Sh#t Ammon nearly died on an A4 pitch two weeks ago! Aid climbing is a skill, and it is hard. It's not the same skill as free climbing, maybe it's more atainable to the common person then 5.14, but so what...it's still a hard skill to attain (not that I have attained it...)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Oct 25, 2007 - 05:15pm PT
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You have got to give this guy credit for his creative form of spray. It's the "been there done that" sprayfest. He gets to spray about having done A5, then he gets to make light of it - a fine way to add punch to your spray.
One thing he conveniently omits to mention is that folks get on hard aid, and get right the heck back off when they see what's up. That is the main reason that the Base of El Cap is not litterred with bodies. Most folks got common sense.
Same thing JB says about free soloing. You don't see a lot of people getting killed at it because pretty much anyone who gives it a go and isn't up to it will have an epiphany about 20 feet up. So the same "logic" (read: alchohol induced spray) could be applied to free soloing. Obviously no one is doing anything hard since the death toll is so low compared to the alleged risk.
Hogwash. But entertaining...
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Oct 25, 2007 - 05:22pm PT
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so what we learned here is:
1. if your rained out on a climbing trip
2. your in the presence of other climbers spraying away
3. you've been drinking
no video cameras allowed!
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Oct 25, 2007 - 09:28pm PT
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First, Chris clearly has the chops and experience to have a valid opinion here, so I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it unless I was speaking from experience as well (and A4+, old school not new wave, is as far as I've pushed the boat out, so that's all I'm gonna say about that).
Second, I'm not sure the soloing analogy makes sense Ksolem. Part of Chris' point is that harder aid rating are defined by risk. If I lead every pitch or freesolo every pitch on Astroman, it's still 11c, right? The solo is clearly more impressive, but no one says that the increased risk changes the rating. But if I am aid climbing and do 50 feet of hooking above a fall into space its A3, while if that exact same hooking takes place off the deck or over a ledge, all of a sudden it is A4+. I don't know if that changes your opinion of the video or not, and you, like Chris, are entitled to your opinion as far as I'm concerned.
I thought the video was hella funny and ultimately harmless. Everyone should climb what they like.
Have fun.
Brian
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Oct 25, 2007 - 10:17pm PT
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Don't get me wrong, I thought it was hella funny too.
My point about soloing wasn't really to do with grades, but more about why more folks don't die doing it. It's because the willingness to do it is dependant on the ability and the desire. Luckily his thesis that a mediocre aid climber can do hard aid without falling doesn't get tested much.
I loved Chris' rant. But then I think spraying in good style is a worthy art.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 25, 2007 - 10:40pm PT
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Interesting ....?
Guys here spraying about a guy spaying in some cell phone type video.
Now is this some California thing that bleeds out into the world?
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Oct 25, 2007 - 10:58pm PT
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Ha. Good point Werner.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 25, 2007 - 11:38pm PT
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Aid climbing ratings are a stupid farce. They are broken and can't get up.
Aid climbing can be hard and scary suffering. It's just hard to put a number on it, and, unfortunately, due to current state of destructive gear used to aid, the difficulty and danger of aid climbs changes all the time.
It's like trying to put a rating on building a deck on a hill during a snowy thunderstorm without all the tools you'd like. There lots of thinking and suffering, an accident might happen and you might feel like quiting.
Peace
Karl
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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Oct 26, 2007 - 12:53am PT
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Whoever coined the phrase "It's all A1 until you fall"...pretty much sums it up.
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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Oct 26, 2007 - 01:03am PT
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It should be mentioned that Chris has climbed harder aid than 99.99 percent of the people on this site. Check out his FA's in the Fishers if you do not believe.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Oct 26, 2007 - 01:28am PT
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i'm going to agree with this folks that say that aid ratings are bunk ..
.. for one thing two different A3 or A4 pitches could be worlds apart .. (ie: the A4 pitch on South Seas.. is very soft... and IMO not A4).
.. the other aspect is that the style of climbing an aid pitch can definately change the risk, and makes the rating mute in those cases... case in point the getting out to the nipple on zodiac .. you can: 1- nail your way out to the nipple (A1) .. use nuts, cams, etc.. (C1) .. or hook your way out to the nipple.. (C3) ..
.. so screw ratings .. climb in the best style that you like .. and have fun ..
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Oct 26, 2007 - 01:43am PT
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It should also be mentioned that CK drilled on a Klaus route.
Heehee!
(Love the rant.)
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 26, 2007 - 01:51am PT
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Coming to the same conclusion as Chris Kalous, I gave up aid climbing in 1973, for the most part. Lest you want to say we didn't know what hard aid climbing was all about back then, here's a quote from an e-mail I got from Steve Bechtel last week, about a route in the Wind Rivers that Geoff Heath and I did in 1969:
"I recently did what might be the second ascent of the North Tower Crack on Haystack, which I felt was VERY stout for A4. It makes Sea of Dreams seem like a bolt ladder...I can't believe you did it so long ago. We went up to look at it for free climbing. I think it will be a really hard route to free...too few cracks." -Steve Bechtel
Not saying aid's bad - just not for everyone (me). I posted a story earlier on ST about this climb. I had been thinking it might make a good free climb for today's masters. According to Steve, maybe knott...
-UnseemlyJelloSpray (Yuck, I detest myself...*)
(*...knott!)
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James
climber
A tent in the redwoods
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Oct 26, 2007 - 01:52am PT
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Through the liquor the guy made some decent points.
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Scrunch
Trad climber
Provo, Ut
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Oct 26, 2007 - 04:37pm PT
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Excuse the response below, just pontificating
We are a race of children, dreaming up our vast pretends as a response to the reality we exist in. We enforce the rules of these games; difficulty ratings, speed limits, politics, even ethical constructs in an attempt to quantify and control things inherently beyond our control. Clinging to these illusions like a drowning man to his bag of gold, we forget that before us we only have the pretends of children. Don't wrap your ego up in a game. Play the games yo want to play because you want to play.
I only live because it interests me, and I only play when i think the game will be fun. On topic, i find the Aid game enjoyable. he doesn't. Either way, I am not concerned with his ideas on the validity of the game because all of this is inherently invalid anyway. He just plays a different game than I do.
Just a thought
Adam
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Oct 26, 2007 - 06:28pm PT
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"It should also be mentioned that CK drilled on a Klaus route.
Heehee!"
hahaha The irony is great here. I guess some A5 is different/harder than others, huh? Easier to forget things like that when drinking though.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 26, 2007 - 06:42pm PT
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"Through the liquor the guy made some decent points."
maybe, kinda. If; you grasp the concept that every aid placement is equally fall catchable/requires the same skill to hold your own mass, none are dicier than others.
No prob!
A corollary, every free move is the same... 5.14 climbers are just busier.
Glad that's settled!
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piquaclimber
Trad climber
Durango
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Oct 26, 2007 - 06:43pm PT
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I have always admired Chris's list of ascents in the Fishers but I didn't realize that he was such a politician. I mean the way he blends cold truths and utter bullshit so seamlessly is a feet to behold.
ranting about ranting.... wheeeeee....
may the god I don't believe in bless the Internet...
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ckalous
Trad climber
Colorado
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Oct 31, 2007 - 04:46pm PT
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Thanks for the mostly great responses on this thread! Loved the deck building analogy! I knew it wouldn't last forever though. No segment of the climbing populous is as easily ruffled as the aid climbers - well, maybe the super alpine guys, but I really am scared of those dudes.
So in my defense:
1. Its a joke. As in Bullshit of the stinkiest variety. Yes "spraying about spraying". That's called irony and it’s a time honored tactic in satire.
2. Yes, I am guilty of all the things that I joke about. I say this in the video.
3. This was indeed rehearsed in that I had used the same argument to rile up my friends around campfires and such at other times and Dan kept badgering me to put it on video (and it was raining a hell of a lot).
4. The drink is Pisco - a hard Chilean imbibe made from grapes- and coke, or a Piscola.
5. Bingo! Cochamo.
6. I didn't drill on a "Klaus" route. My partner did. But I agreed with it, so I guess that is the same thing- accessory to a crime, as it were. It was at a belay which I remember having only one 5/16th buttonhead. But I have been told that I am wrong about that memory. One of you guys should head up and chop it so I can sleep at night(before you use it to haul your bags, of course)!
9. I do not believe that aid climbing is stupid or not fun. Just that it isn't as challenging as free climbing. Ask anybody that has done both at a high level. Our system supports this simple statement by that fact that an achievement of note is to free an aid line, while aiding a free line is seen as a form of concession and failure. Even partially eliminating aid is seen as better style.
10. Finally, did I mention that the video is a joke. We were goofing around drunk in the rain. But in Shakespeare's words, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" which leads me to believe I might have gotten something right through the alcohol.
Anyway, keep climbing, spraying, slandering and having fun, otherwise we might as well trade in our ratty shorts for pleated pants and call it golfing instead!
I am going to be in Josh next week. Anybody want to climb? (or beat me up?)
Sincerely,
Chris "the guy who drilled on P S D" Kalous
By the way, I need to come clean on something. Many of you think I did the second ascent of Scorched Earth. It has occurred to me that Randy probably freed the first half of the Leavitator pitch, and I did not, which means that I did not in fact achieve the second ascent as the style of my ascent was worse than the first. I would guess it probably still hasn't been done. I guess I will have to give back all my sponsorship money. Randy Leavit is a way better climber than I will ever be.
Where, oh, where have all the Randy Leavits gone?!
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Oct 31, 2007 - 06:35pm PT
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Which site in Josh you gonna be in? I wouldn't sleep if I were you, driller!
Not a joke!!
Serious as an aid rant!!!1
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Oct 31, 2007 - 06:45pm PT
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Aids climbing is for people who don't get enough boredom in the rest of their life.
Having had to resort fo full blown, nasty, miserable, slow, tedious, free hanging aid in a few sections of otherwise free-able climbs, all I can say is that there is NOTHING better than getting to the end of the aids section and going free again.
People who wan to do 'climbs' where the hwole thing is aid, and they know this before hand, are just sick, sick, sick, I tell you.
IN the future there will be treatment for them, I hope.
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Jonny D
Social climber
Lost Angelez, Kalifornia
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2007 - 07:01pm PT
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Chris:
Thanks for posting, I was kinda hoping you would when I started this thread. I had a good laugh with it all, still agree with your drunken joke though... climbing 13a with beak protection not harder than aid, yeah right!
Jean
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mooch
Big Wall climber
The Immaculate Conception
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Oct 31, 2007 - 07:16pm PT
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Kris said:
"But then I think spraying in good style is a worthy art."
And a fine artisan you are. ;)
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NBB
Social climber
Boulder
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Oct 31, 2007 - 10:11pm PT
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If guys worked on hooking, pins, heading, etc like you see freeclimbers working to hone their skills at Cookie, C4 boulders, etc - in perhaps 1 month's time we'd have A7. I'd say it took me perhaps 1 week to get to A5, when you seperate it from the time learning all that other stuff.
When you pull the technical difficulties of aid climbing out of that mess known as "doing a wall", it's not a very big part of the picture, yet mentally I think it's what neophytes focus on. Bailing because of specific technical aid difficulties are extremely rare.
Agree with Jello that there's basically a ceiling to the difficulty, in that there is only so much a stretch of rock can offer before you have to either start drilling it or work with rock so fragile the 3rd ascent will be doing a bolt ladder. There in the middle generally lie placements that hold body weight or better. Here, if you can't get something to stick well enough before your supplies of food and water run out, then you should consider another sport.
Lastly, I love the talk of spray in that video! Yosemite, we must all concede, is Spray Central - a flaming crucible of SPRAY! You can't blame the big brave El Cap climbers (including Chris, or even myself..!) for spraying too much - it's just the culture we were nurtured in - scarred for life!
 Nate
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Burns
Trad climber
Nowhere special
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Boulder is Spray Central, except in the summertime when it moves to Rifle for the season.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Chris has climbed harder aid than 99.99 percent of the people on this site.
Don't forget his freeklimbing skills (same math, likely). Guy's a genuwine all-rounder...
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Handjam Belay
Gym climber
expat from the truth
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I leapfrogged two big bros up the Leavittator...I was pretty gripped.
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Blakeb
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Maybe third to the valley and boulder, would be supertaco itself.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Someone has to fall on an A5 to retain the rating?
He's talking about old school ratings. Now its based on the number of body-weight placements in a row, or potential fall distance.
To throw a wrench into his argument...
How many people have died on X free climbs? People don't die on A5 routes because gumbies aren't jumping on routes that hard. Just like a solid 5.11 climber isn't going to go for a lead on the BY, or despite the rating of 5.7, Snake Dike will *rarely* be a first lead for a burgeoning climber.
A5 is hard. Putting up a route that will kill 3/5's of the climbers who ATTEMPT it would be akin to putting up a solo 5.12 FA. Those who would die on it, won't try it. Hell, Reticent wall I'm sure would kill me. That's why I'm not on it. I have pussy walls to climb :D
he seems like a cool guy, drinking and spraying is part of life, be kind to him :D Funny point, although inherently flawed it may be.
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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lately I've been thinking how much i miss aid climbing. after concentrating on it for a couple of years i turned back to focus on free climbing this season. as the weather here becomes winter again I'm looking forward to spending the time I'm not using ice climbing to get back into my aiders.
the rant just simply must be correct, though I'm no master I've managed to send every pitch I've started out on. it must not be that hard after all.
still fun tho.
thats all i give a flyin fuk about.
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tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
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9. I do not believe that aid climbing is stupid or not fun. Just that it isn't as challenging as free climbing. Ask anybody that has done both at a high level. Our system supports this simple statement by that fact that an achievement of note is to free an aid line, while aiding a free line is seen as a form of concession and failure. Even partially eliminating aid is seen as better style.
This is bogus.
Too may freeclimbers have retrobolted aid cracks so that they could go 'free'. Free climbers are as guilty of misusing drills as well.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Too may freeclimbers have retrobolted aid cracks so that they could go 'free'. Free climbers are as guilty of misusing drills as well.
One could append that statement to "too many aid climbers have retrobolted aid cracks so they could go (for said climber)"
I's seen it on the Muir (Royal's retro). I even used it on the Muir, throwing a small nut over the feller.
ask some of the locs about their FA's being drilled on...
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Far as I'm concerned, I'm always happy when one of my old aid routes gets freeclimbed. Progress, in my book.
-Jello
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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You know I began writing a little rebuttal because the beginning of his spray was a little weird but when he got to the part about a drill I could see where he was getting at. If you drill you can always get up, and it's been the battle since Harding did the Nose to draw limits around what is acceptable and what isn't.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 15, 2010 - 02:44am PT
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bump
discuss
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ß Î Ř T Ç H
climber
. . . not !
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Jan 15, 2010 - 03:21am PT
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Are there any freeclimbs of ElCap with all natural (no pin-scar or drilled etc) holds ? Maybe westface , but I doubt it . Aid climbing is fine , but having people then come in and claim the free ascent(s) is dumb . There is no more "free" after-the-fact (like virginity) .
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jstan
climber
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Jan 24, 2010 - 12:09am PT
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I'll pick up on Kevin a little bit here.
The topic here is difficulty and that is the same for both aid and free. The truth is the chance of failure or a fall is calculated by dividing the magnitude of the risk one accepts by one's ability. There are two inputs, not one.
So to get a quantifiable comparison between two individuals you have to do the whole experiment. If climber A falls off after doing the climb successfully 10 times you know that person's risk/ability quotient is larger than that of a person who fell off on his 100th attempt.
You don't know who was taking the most risk nor do you know who had more ability.
Participation in an experiment of this sort does suggest the two individuals both have a problem of one sort or another. But we won't go into that.
Edit to avoid a bump:
Your concept of risk is different from the one I use, possibly.
When I think of risk I am considering how close to falling off one is pressing oneself. If on something you will not fall off, like a sidewalk, the risk factor is low. If you have only one leg and you are trying to hop over a curb two inches higher than you can jump, you don't have much headroom. Risk is high.
It is also possible my OP is nonsense. If one never works with any appreciable risk, ability is irrelevant. You won't fall off.
Have to consider more. There may still be something here.
Objective dangers I ignore. Anyone looking for objective danger will be on a mountain.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 24, 2010 - 01:21am PT
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chance of failure or a fall is calculated by dividing the magnitude of the risk one accepts by one's ability. There are two inputs, not one.
So to get a quantifiable comparison between two individuals you have to do the whole experiment. If climber A falls off after doing the climb successfully 10 times you know that person's risk/ability quotient is larger than that of a person who fell off on his 100th attempt.
jstan, beg to differ, or I've missed your argument...
"chance of the fall" is not reducible to accepted magnitude of the risk over ones ability. It's a neat idea, but chance of the fall is a product of loose rock, temperature, strength, mindset, etc.
but even if we factor the variables out as much as possible, the quotient implies that the value is larger the greater the number of attempts to successes. But if the outcome aka the magnatude of the fall is to be factored in as you mention, then the sheer number of attempts can't account for how a person falls. e.g. falling on their heads, spinning, let behind rope, broke ankle, broken rib, mere scratches vs. cranial contusion.
just because someone accepts the risk and succeeds doesn't mean they have a better chance of not falling on the next go with all other things being equal.
I guess, really what I'm saying is, all other things are not equal and can't be factored out under the above proposition.
thoughts?
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Jan 24, 2010 - 12:13pm PT
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As a mere "Punter" among "Kings" on this site, I would like to provide a perspective. First off, I liked CK's rant. He seems genuine to me, and isn't taking things to seriously. I have been climbing for over 40 years. For the most part, I prefer free climbing to aid because it is logistically less challenging, much more natural, and physically more rewarding. However, big wall aid is far more of a Grand Adventure to me and therein lies the draw. Free climbing has taken me all over the globe in pursuit of classic moderates, and has filled me with rich memories. But my first El Cap route, Zodiac, still stands today as my favorite climbing experience.......the Grand Adventure. As for CK's argument concerning the difficulty of aid, I can't argue. Hell, it's all scary to me ! But the aid tools of today have to make it an easier game. Damn, I'm starting to ramble like CK and I haven't had anything to drink yet !!!
Cracko
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
You wanted to!
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Jan 24, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
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Dude....I'm thinkin' we all do a bit o' that.
lol!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 24, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
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Anybody know where Chris is at these days?
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R.B.
Big Wall climber
Ripped from Salmon
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Jan 24, 2010 - 02:21pm PT
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I was glad to see Chris 'fess' up to his "rant" as being a tongue-and-cheek diatribe.
With that said ... it seems that everyone (on this thread) has lost their way.
Aid ratings traditionally are refering to a blend of objective variables, such as How solid (bomber) is it; how difficult is it to place; and what kind of fall can it hold;
versus subjective factors such as the ability of the climber, etc.
Wasn't A5 supposed to translate to:
multiple, equalized body weight only peices in a row that would not hold a fall.
And wasn't A1 supposed to translate to:
very solid placements at will, would hold a Mac truck of a fall.
It's all about the placement and it's quality (ability to hold the fall)
As with any rating system, whats 5.10 to me may be A5 to you, or vice-versa.
Ponder it for a while!
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Burt
Big Wall climber
Las Vegas, Nv
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Jan 24, 2010 - 02:28pm PT
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prob climbing harder than most at this point. As Chris said before ask most who are at the top of both spectrum's. From my experience with some of the people that excel at both free and aid, the free seemed more rewarding and more adventure. Just helping out and freeing an old aid route in Zion, the amount of effort and scariness way outweighed the first one day ascent I did on the route just months prior. I lead every pitch, bagged the first one day but just months later just going up there with free shoes seemed out of this world. It was the BEST experience of my life. One of the most rewarding also. The Hubers are another clan to debate this with. These guys have done both, but I am pretty sure their stance on free VS aid is prob the same. Aid is hard, and then its not guys. Come on. We over glorify the "dark art" as some life changing near death experience when in reality where you that close to the brink? Lambone yes Ammon whipped, we all have whipped (if you haven't climb harder you puss) that is not necessarily reflectant on the grade of the pitch. I have fallen on "A4" and popped one piece in the middle of the A4 crux,and hooks, beaks, heads that shouldn't have caught did, and then I have taken the full 50+ft ride on baby A2, just the luck of the draw. Leaning to place gear comes with time, but not that much time, wall climbing is more about moving a big amount of freight up a cliff without turning into a total clusterfu&k. That is the art of wall climbing. Just look at who and what has been done on these "mega hard" routes. Thomaz Humar soloed the Reticent Wall without ever climbing El Cap before. His systems where all fu&ked up, he didn't know that much about aid, just went up and did it. That is why it is not that hard. To many guys have walked up and done the hardest without spending years perfecting the art. There are very few people that have walked up to a cutting edge free route, climb the thing without many years of prep and determination. So yes aid climbing is not that hard. Control the mind a little bit, have some perseverance and just keep standing up in those ladders, eventually you will get to the top.
Kurt
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jan 24, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
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I tend to agree with you kurt.
Freeclimbing (hard) is so complicated...relies on coordination and numerous other factors, atp, anaerobic systems, recruitment, etc, blah bla.
aid relies on technical know how and what's in your toolbox. while rare placements may be ticking time bombs, there is really no "pump" clock...
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xbow
Trad climber
TWENTYNIN PLM
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Mar 28, 2011 - 07:55am PT
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I never looked at aid as a dark art or anything like that (especially not the clean variety). I always looked at it as a tool to connect the parts of a climb that I can free climb with those parts of it that I can't. The key (for me) is to give it a go free first if it looks at all possible for me and if its a no-go then I'll resort to a little aid to bypass the section. I enjoy the hell out of mixed climbing because it puts me in places that I wouldn't be otherwise. However, I have to admit that it sure feels good after aiding a section to get out of the slings and continue up on internal power again.
But climbing on aid has done one thing for me that it has probably done for everyone else that practices it. And that is that I see placements and the possibility of such in my sleep and have developed a better ability to set up solid protection in questionable rock because of my aid climbing. And I have to admit that there is aid and then there is AID, its one thing to climb pin scars with small cams and Lowe balls and its quite another to HOOK your way through a blank section to a location that offers something more tangible (that puckers me but it sure feels good when its over). I just love climbing...all of it.
The only things that I can't abide are individuals that rap bolt stuff with electric drills, stuff that should have been left as top rope problems or have been led from the ground up. And seeing a line of over driven direct aid copper heads that have been smeared into thin shallow cracks for an eternity is nasty. But that's just me and I have no right to judge others....lest I be judged.
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Auto-X Fil
Mountain climber
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Mar 28, 2011 - 10:25am PT
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I think it's funny that he can say in the video, and then in this thread, "hey, this is a troll!", and yet still troll so many people.
A Master!
That said, the comparisons between drilling and expedition climbing ring particularly true. Both are hard and scary, and yet somehow not "pure".
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Mar 28, 2011 - 11:40am PT
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A friend of mine who doesn't really aid climb always brings this up. I tell him it's a different game with the same tools, if you don't like it, STFU and don't do it.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Mar 28, 2011 - 11:56am PT
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I got a good laugh out of that rant when I first saw it. My initial thought was, "Hell yeah, it's easy. Look at all those people climbing the A5's all the time."
In case you guys missed it, you need to scroll up and read Chris' response to his own video, which I missed before and just noticed for the first time now.
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Mar 28, 2011 - 12:39pm PT
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Pete, people climbing A5 all the time? Oh yeah, Gobs of people crowed the reticent, Jolly Roger, PSD, Surgeon General, Atlantis, Bloc Party, Sheep Ranch, Sea, Koas, Scorched Earth, and the many many other A4+ A5 routes. I mean, you better take a number, those things are PACKED!
Let me go find that response, I am curious!
Chris Says "Where, oh, where have all the Randy Leavitts gone?!" Those are a dead and dying breed. Few and far between, one of the best climbers ever, IMHO... But yeah, sure, I do agree with his response, but f*#k it, aid climbing, wailing in pins, beaks, hooking and the likes is fun. And I do all these things because they are fun.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 28, 2011 - 12:44pm PT
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Anybody in touch with Chris these days?
I want to interview him for the Kor doc.
Shoot me an email.
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Sonic
Trad climber
Central Coast, California
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Mar 28, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
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Pointed at Russ's link,
All the world superpowers have small dicks.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Mar 28, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
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Pointed at Russ's link,
What's going on in Bolivia anyway??
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 18, 2012 - 11:07pm PT
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Nothing doable is hard
if it was humans couldn't do it
oooh i'm a hardman.. yer gonna die.. i'm more special than u r.. want a cookie?
yipeee
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 18, 2012 - 11:13pm PT
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Anyone who says that "anyone out of shape" can lead aid has never spent a lot of time in his top step on awkward aid pitches.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 18, 2012 - 11:18pm PT
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Yeah but the step below works for my outta shape ass....
Being drunk and outta shape sitting on the couch and gettin ur ass up there is way more hardcorp and adventurous than that Honnold kid who is training 24/7 ...
Of course he can do it in a couple hours. lets see how he does after 10 years off climbing and drinking bear and shizz..I'll bet aiding is harder for him then then breaking the speed record was.. plus he will have all that old baggage telling how good he used to be and slamming him facefirst as to the fact that he aint never gonna be that good again
Old fat drunk lazy aid climbers are the real deal
semper farcissimus
Blue camalot freaks need not respond
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Nov 18, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
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This summer I was furiously failing on a route in Rifle that I had done easily many years ago. A guy dogging on a bolt near the one I was hanging from said, “Aren’t you the Aid Rant guy?” And I said, “Maybe.” And then we laughed about how silly aid climbers are. We would have high-fived, but there were two routes between us, so we could barely touch.
tongue in cheek about free climbing within the justification of the tongue in cheek aid rant leads to suspicion of anything and everything in the article being more trolling. As it should be. Meta is often the sign of a good writer, or at least a good mind.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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May 31, 2015 - 10:30pm PT
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This thread is funny
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Said about free climbing long ago: "enough of this hiking, let's get to the climbing"
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jstan
climber
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I once did a climb in Yosemite. Ugh! My partner led an aid move up one of those expanding
flakes in which each pin falls out as you place the next. I never looked at the guide so I have no
idea as to the difficulty.
Getting past the flake took all day. This was intriguing so later on I went back and soloed it.
Took an hour. You had to concentrate on getting minimum leveraging on each pin. Just stick
them in by hand and use hero loops. The lower pin will roll and still bear weight as you move to
the upper.
Not being an aid climber I can say little about the activity. I will say this. If I were 100 feet out
on a string of hooks I would want to have done a huge amount of that kind of climbing.
Experience is the key.
That may be why we have aid climbers all over the place.
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WBraun
climber
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aid climbing = stick em in and step/stand up ......
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Really dicey hooking requires a lot of body english and good footwork.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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May 10, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
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The best part of this is the commentary by Jenny Piccolo
[quote]I loved this video!!! Chris took me up the East Buttress of El Cap a ways back and we ran into Singer at the top of the 9 hour ascent! It was the greatest experience of my life I wrote a book and dedicated two chapters to him! Called, Happy Days Healthy Living, I am Cathy Silvers…Jenny Piccolo of Happy Days TV series and I am an expert crack climber thanks to Chris Kalous! Chris is the BOMB!!! How do I reach Chris? Does he have a website or email or number…Peace, Cathy http://www.thehealthylivingshow.com[/quote]
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 10, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
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...when used to cover up the worn through sheath on your lead rope...
...10 pitches up...
...beads of sweat on your forehead..
...as you get close...
...hoping it doesn't ...
.....knowing it won't...
...right?, but it looks so freaky thin running up and beyond your sight...
...part before...
....you get to skip...
...the jugs above it!
;-)
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 10, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
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Though the post is old news, it may be helpful to drink booze to the point where its logic appears reasonable...
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| Messages 1 - 79 of total 79 in this topic |
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