Discussion Topic |
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 14, 2007 - 02:19am PT
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This last week while on vacation in Yosemite:
I see a girl hanging upside down below a 5.8 roof with a pack on. Boyfriend hero, unsympathetic, 30 feet above. 3 Pitch route.
I see ultra n00bs with giant packs doing 5.7 routes in less than record time.
I see guys that can sorta actually climb running water bladders and packs for 3 pitch routes.
I tried to carry (well I made Susan carry it) a small pack with 16oz of Gatorade, a trail line, and 6 cams and it almost killed us off in a chimney and it choked the breath out of poor Sooze on a near vertical pitch.
So what exactly is the deal and what do you guys actually carry in those packs? We are talking about 2 - 4 pitch routes here.... 3 hours max..... whaddya got, tender feet and need a sippy cup every 3 minutes? Is it some sort of weird sub-alpinist thing where you are not really climbing unless you have a stack of shiit on your back? Do you bonk without Estrogen laced goo every 40 minutes? Please please tell me.... I really want to know!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2007 - 02:36am PT
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That Tarbuster kid used to tape the beers into the middle of the slings... use the sling, drink the beer..... Tardy??? how about a pic?
WTF is in all those packs????
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N0_ONE
Social climber
Utah
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:40am PT
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For me it the sippy cup thing! But not on shorter routes.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:51am PT
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hey there guys... say, i aint a climber, but i know what the pack issue is all about... think many of you all know this, too:
ol' company advertising, trying to make more BIG bucks...
they do it to school kids come each new school year... i see my poor ol' step grandkids are hooked on them....
twenty mule team, sure couldnt handle them, but these little school kids try to---course, they aint climbing ROCKS....
advertisers DONT CARE--they will sell packs to anyone they can pitch a plan-of-attack picture-fun-time ad to:
sadly, too, not only to innocent little kids that see the "glitter and sparkle" of whatever "hooked" them to get folks to BUY them and then strain to lug them around, but, to rock climbers that are too new to know better, and could--as you said---end up, UPSIDE DOWN...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Sep 14, 2007 - 03:01am PT
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hey there... oh MYYYYYY.... LOCKER SURE KNOWS how the ol' "see ad work" goes...
say...aside from rock climber packs:
i do wonder how many packs they sell each school year, though... did you all know that these things PILE up, and for some reason, parent-folks re-buy these... there can be up to ten in a basement, in near "mint" condition.. and yet each kid in the homes buys more, each year....
i've truly seen them at all the homes around here, where the folks have kids... its really amazing...
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 14, 2007 - 03:21am PT
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Get to my shoes Locker. I want them tomorrow. You can drive them by.
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Ricardo Carlos
Trad climber
Off center, CO.
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Sep 14, 2007 - 03:34am PT
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Russ
I heard XXXX was coming out with a new model , OFF The Wall.
If you put enough needless crap in it you will fall off the wall?
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Sep 14, 2007 - 04:29am PT
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It's all about training. It's good training for something to wear one. Not sure what yet, but it is.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:01am PT
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Climb with a pack?...What?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:03am PT
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What you talking about?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:05am PT
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Let's go sport climbing! Beers, bolts, and babes!
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tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:10am PT
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hey there guys... say, i aint a climber, but i know what the pack issue is all about... think many of you all know this, too:
ol' company advertising, trying to make more BIG bucks...
Ya, like this one [note the instructions don't say anything about leaving the bag at the bottom of the route ...]
http://www.fishproducts.com/catalog/bouldering.html
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:20am PT
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2 words: spare ammo
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:29am PT
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I'm with you Russ,
Here's my team's hydration strategy for a six-pitch Eldorado rock route:
(plus there's a carbohydrate bonus too)
... nobody goes thirsty on my watch!
We are talkin' 2 beers apiece.
Some guys, like Prod, hedge their bet and hydrate extra good at der staging zone,
BEFORE heading up on the fearsome 5.9:
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:52am PT
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when i go to the local crag, no. pack gets left at the bottom. when tim gets to escape chicagoland, it depends. he ususaly ends up out in colorado. not sunny california. he usualy shows up at lumpy ridge. the weather sucks, the approaches are long, the descents can be bushwacks.
leaving the pack and your shoes at the base seams like kinda a dumb thing to do round those parts. especially when the daily thunderstorm shows up and your so glad you have a rain jacket. sitting at the base. and you're always looking forward to get back into your sneakers, especially after an hour of bushwaking to get them out of your pack, thats probobly an hour out of your way now that you descended down the backside.
i gots me one of those medium size camelbacks. holds the rainshell, the approach shoes, some snacks, smokes and obviously the water.
its small enough and lite enough that i don't notice it while climbing.
did that just last week. was nice having the jacket for the storm at the top of three, was nice wearing the tennies on the descent, was nice not having to go back to retrieve anything at the base.
so der ya go.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:13am PT
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Yeah yeah yeah
WTF is in those packs?
Even on Yosar the n00ber rescuers bring their own personal monster 30 lb packs full of sh'it to hike up the trail 300 yards to pick up a sprained ankle when all you really need is a pair of cut-off at the fingers leather gloves.
People will climb after 6 with 20 lb packs on their backs full of sh'it and god knows WTF is in there. It only takes 10 to 15 minutes to do the whole route to begin with.
WTF is in those packs???????????
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:22am PT
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For me, a pack is more a wardrobe consideration.
You know, a guy needs to know how to accessorise,
Like, when in rubble, I go to the trouble.
I pretty much refuse to do clean rock gymnastics, say anything 5.7 or harder & 3-15 pitches in length, with a pack: always have been inclined in that way. I don't even like carrying approach shoes on my harness. Very seldom do I do that, as I most often go down the backside barefoot and I might wrap a very light rain jacket or windbreaker around my waist, maybe put some gloves in a pocket.
Many of the younger modern climbers are all about helmets, packs, belay gadgets, extraneous gear, and an overall stern and serious demeanor.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:25am PT
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russ ..
.. when we climb we bring a pack .. full of toilet paper ... i'm the kind of guy who needs a whole roll in order to feel comfortable out there .. -- for each sitting ..
.. and you never know when your'e going to get hit with a 2-flusher or worse..
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:27am PT
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Roy,
I think that grey pack makes your butt look big.
lol
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:31am PT
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Ha!
My butt is SO big too.
I just hate that about myself.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:37am PT
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Euroford has a good point.
And sometimes after you do that 3 pitch, there is another one waiting just up the hill for you...then another...
Or there's a BBQ grill up top and you have the burgers, beers and charcoal...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:44am PT
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Harnesses are BS too.
Just about as bad as panty line.
The climber needs a spare look, clean and sleek:
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J. Werlin
climber
Cedaredge
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:49am PT
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Climbing with a pack sucks.
Black Canyon style on the IV's and V's is usually: gatorade bottle and light tennies clipped to haul loop , energy bar or something in cargo pocket, polypro shirt tied around waist.
PS: Werner, re: after 6: I usually just give in and haul.
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G_Gnome
Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:51am PT
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My favorite is watching a couple on Z-Tree on Pywiak spending 5 or 6 hours to do 2 5.6 pitches with full packs on. Not only should you be done in 40 minutes of less, but you rap back down the route to the exact spot from which you started. Why would anyone carry a pack? What is in those packs?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:56am PT
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Packs... hmmm... the first time I did E.Butt. of Middle I took a pack, my partner asked "gee, you got room for..." and before you could blink the thing was full. We still did it with plenty of time to get off, but it wasn't a very nice ascent, mostly thinking about the pack and not about the climbing.
I resolved not to take a pack after that, just what ever you can hang off your rack or wrap around your waist.
Sometimes a big camel back subs... but that's for total uncertainty on the route... a long FA like A Walk In The Park... here's a tip: when dangling your approach shoes for the walk off, you can use them to carry your beers, and they're protected too! so you don't need to remember the duct tape for the methode a la Tarbussier.
When I need a pack, then I'm playing the Alpine game... totally different. As far as I can see, there is little true alpine in California (maybe a few hours a year).
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:04pm PT
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A rope, a rack and....
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
a dark-green forester out west
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:07pm PT
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I usually just put a hot girl in my pack.
You guys don't do this?
Posers!
Who knows when the urge will strike?
Ya gotta be prepared!
-A
ps On a more serious note, I only carry a pack (slim profile Camelback-type) for around 6 pitches or more. Water, some grub, headlamp and a shell. Maybe a guidebook if the routefinding is weird.
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
a dark-green forester out west
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:08pm PT
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Packs are aid.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:12pm PT
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I'm glad we're sensitively laying this matter to rest.
So as a group, the topical consensus is, packs 'r for weenies.
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curt wohlgemuth
Social climber
Bay Area, California
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:15pm PT
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What gets me is the Camelbacks. Even our host company's guidebooks say you should bring a Camelback on Tuolumne climbs to avoid dehydration.
I like water as much as the next guy. But unless the climb is 3 or 4 hours or more, I've never been dehydrated on a climb (assuming decent temperatures) enough to want to have a slushee attached to my back.
Curt
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:21pm PT
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And
Then to go along with all this other Bullshit ....
The modern climber:
Beanie cap with pack and laptop pack and cell phone glued to their ears. Patagonia clothing decked head to toe.
Cell phone to their ears, blah blah blah about nothing.
Hahahahaha ...........
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Matt
Trad climber
never ever pissing into the wind
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:26pm PT
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we did crescent arch a few weeks ago and saw a party of 2 on west crack w/ 2 packs, big'uns, that's one each!
not surprised to watch the leader panic trying to build an anchor and started screaming at the belayer at the top of his shrill lungs- "take", "slack" , "take- TAKE!!", "slack"...
clip it on or leave it behind!
but luckily i am part camel and don't need much water, folks on another thread were talking about 2 or even 3 quarts of H2O for a day of climbing- yikes! another friend of mine carried in 1/2 gallon to *solo* cathedral peak-
shoes, chalkbag, 1/2 gallon...? yikes...
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:34pm PT
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Personally I love climbing with my camelback 3 pitches or more. I sweat more than most and dehydrate easily. A little water at the crux move relaxes me. In spring and fall a light weight layer system has come in very handy, especially on alpine climbs. In Chimneys it dangles underneath me.
So F#@k off, I'm wearing my pack. LOL
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:36pm PT
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When I cruise up the Spires Gulley or some such place,
And I see a party, leader and follower strapped with bulging rucksacks,
This is what I'm thinking:
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Matt
Trad climber
never ever pissing into the wind
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:42pm PT
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locker, sometimes you make me wonder a bit...
(do you think yer pal lois would approve of the REAL you?)
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atchafalaya
climber
California
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:45pm PT
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Same question for those who ski lift areas with Packs or camelbacks. WTF? Ya drove there in a car, and theres a lodge at the base. Posers...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:48pm PT
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The Camelback option has its place.
I tried it once on the Southeast Ridge of Notch Top, in RMNP.
It was pretty cool to sip water mid-pitch, on lead:
And yet I still prefer a small bottle,
And don't tell anybody I was totin' my approach shoes on my waist.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:56pm PT
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Heck Tar, you could probably stash water and a snack in that cowboy hat!!!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Sep 14, 2007 - 12:56pm PT
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A fellow I've climbed with got off route and took a 30-foot fall on one of the lower pitches of Epinephrine last year. He landed on his back on a ledge, ruining his Camelback but probably because of that, avoiding a more serious back injury. Not that I'd carry one up Epinephrine, but it apparently was lucky for him.
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G_Gnome
Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
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Sep 14, 2007 - 01:05pm PT
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Heck, even on all day routes like Mr. Toads Wild Ride I won't bring anything more than a bottle of water for the second to carry. Drink like crazy before you leave the ground and then again when you get back to the packs. A Gu and a hard candy or two in your chalk bag pocket is all you need. If you can carry a pack you aren't climbing hard enough!
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Sep 14, 2007 - 01:10pm PT
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Same question for those who ski lift areas with Packs or camelbacks. WTF? Ya drove there in a car, and theres a lodge at the base. Posers...
Some ski resorts let you ski out of bounds. Bridger Bowl is a great example. You need a pack, shovel and an avalanche beacon...I'm such a poser, accessing the backcounty...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 01:14pm PT
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That's why I'm a lead hog Jan,
So I'm not the one lugging that darned extra water bottle.
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atchafalaya
climber
California
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Sep 14, 2007 - 01:39pm PT
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TK, I was referring to those who ONLY ski in the area, and wear a backpack while doing it. Cheers
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2007 - 01:41pm PT
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Khanom: do you wear the camelback when you dig out your van?
Really though.... maybe see an internist or something. You might have a tapeworm or a potassium imbalance. Maybe LEB will come along shortly and diagnose.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 01:45pm PT
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All of you's guys suck.
I'm wearing my Camelback right now.
Microphone for voice-activated software hanging off the left side of my gob, Camelback spout on the right.
(Drool cup straight under the chin).
hahahahahahaha.
But seriously, Khanom:
Russ might have something there, because that's about where I'm sitting.
E-mail me if you want more detail.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Sep 14, 2007 - 01:49pm PT
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You're cracking me up here Roy!
I hear ya atchafalaya...
Cheers
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 01:51pm PT
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Kumbaya...
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:00pm PT
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What are you talkin' bout Russ! Where else can I put my Jetboil and pad thai/egg mcmuffin sandwiches??
I commit the crime. I climb with a 2L water pouch. AAAAAAAUGH!
And 50%lycra/50% denim jeans and a beanie I found on the Friction Descent.
I have thoughts of jury rigging a 5mil Perlon cord through some surgical tubing and making a badass climbing rack slash hydro pack... its not a monster thing, has a tiny ass pocket for a couple of snikers and a gameboy. Man, that would be cool. I would be so cool, in my Prana pre-faded jeans, climbing with my boyfrei-, er, climbing partner.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:02pm PT
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what tha fukkkkkkkkkk..............
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2007 - 02:07pm PT
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EarMuff Pack™™™ ??????
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curt wohlgemuth
Social climber
Bay Area, California
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:13pm PT
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Hey, the great thing about this world is that all of us can generally do what we want, and tell all the rest to go f**k themselves. By the same token, I have every right to laugh at you for hauling your half gallon of water and turkey sub from Togo's up the Dike Route.
What gets me is the n00b trail runners who, having been told they'll die without rehydration, carry a liter of Expensive Sports Replacement Product (TM) on their 20-minute run.
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pdx_climber
Sport climber
portland,or
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:14pm PT
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Fill pack with hippie lettuce, bowl and lighter.
climb, get cotton mouth, need beer! only pikers climb with water...
climb, get munchies, need food! mmm, roast beef sammy!
climb, get lost, need guide book
climb, go slow, need headlamp
climb, get cold in dark, need sweater
climb, get baked again, and sleep, need bivy sack
wake up, clip sport anchors and lower to ground!
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:17pm PT
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Dougal Haston - summit of Everest
his pack - Karrmor
the contents, not much.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:22pm PT
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Hahahahaha Lol hahahahahaa
WTF? Huh? WTF am I laughing about?
That reminds me when I took that kid up Astroman once in the summer 95 degrees hot. I told him I'm a camel and don't need no water nor am I bringing any.
But you (the kid), better bring some or you're hosed.
Of course what's he do, hahahaha. Jason Cambell it was.
We get 2/3 of the way and he drops. White flakes are coming out of his mouth, LOL. He's dust for sure.
Dragged his ass the rest of the way hand over hand up.
He was cooked for dazes after ....... lol.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:30pm PT
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I was a late convert to hydration bladders, but I've seen the light.
This year I've climbed several times with an excellent partner who often carried less water than me. We climbed Snake Dike, West Ridge of Conness, and South Face of North Dome together. Don't think he used a hydration pack on any of them. But he borrowed water from me on at least 2 of those climbs, when he didn't carry enough.
As far as carrying a pack on short climbs, it makes a lot of sense at the Leap. What doesn't make sense to me is the common practice of taking a crag pack there and leaving it at the base of climbs that it's inconvenient to return to. If I'm at the Leap, unless I'm cragging, I carry everything with me.
I used to carry a water bottle or 2 there. Carrying 2 water bottles on a climb is more annoying than a carrying a hydration pack. And if I only carry one I eventually end up filling it in the stream on the descent. Safe? Maybe it is. But I've dealt with intestinal parasites before, and I like to be more careful now.
Oh, and hydration packs rock for resort snowboarding too, depending on the resort and conditions, and if you keep the water from freezing.
I still prefer bottles when bicycling (which seems to be where bladders are most popular), unless I need a lot of water for the ride. It's always a hydration pack when I take water on the unicycle though.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:38pm PT
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I usually don't carry shite. I hate the weight. Sure, my piss is often dark brown and melts granite towards the end of the day, but at least I am not bothered by a bunch of extra stuff.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 02:40pm PT
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Once did the Naked Edge on a 90° day in a party of three.
We drank some water at the base and brought one Budweiser between the three of us for the route. Cracked that sucker after the thin crack pitch and we shared it. Yummy!
In the chimney-flair pitch, my hat actually got in the way, so I had to knock it off on its chin strap and let it hang around my neck on my back for a couple of moves.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Sep 14, 2007 - 04:07pm PT
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Where else are you gonna store the emergency rolls of tape for chrissake, Russ?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2007 - 04:34pm PT
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After this thread I'm out of the pack market..... maybe I'll get into slab specific gear after reading the museum thread.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 14, 2007 - 04:39pm PT
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My partner had a pack on when we did the Goss-Logan (grade 5) in the Black.
I lead all the pitches and got about two mouthful out of the deal.
Seems she like to keep that little tube in her mouth (no wise remarks) while climbing.
All the water was gone by pitch ten and our friendship by pitch 13.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 04:44pm PT
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Don't you know it Bob.
On a technical note, no kidding around now, my biggest problem with the Camelback is you can't monitor, or ration the water so effectively, of course you can get the bladder out and take a look, but that just neutralizes the convenience. I like to be able to look at the bottle and see what I've got; then I put it back in the pack or on my harness, where it is safe.
Lisa and I tried using Camelbacks for long days in the mountains and I'd be surprised by just running out. Also, maybe they fixed this, but the mouth tips were always dripping water, which was annoying.
So I just went back to the bottle.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 14, 2007 - 04:47pm PT
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Messner at 24000 feet
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phillip mike revis
climber
snowbird, ut
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Sep 14, 2007 - 04:52pm PT
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at the gunks they boulder wearing backpacks
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jstan
climber
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Sep 14, 2007 - 04:53pm PT
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For hiking you put a one or two quart platypus in the flap pocket of a pack. Stores have plastic tubes with mouth tips ready made for use with the platypus. The tips have not leaked on us.
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Paulina
Trad climber
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Sep 14, 2007 - 05:25pm PT
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The backpack is for the 32 essentials, of course! Or was it 132 essentials? Damn, I'll put MFotH in that backpack next time.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Sep 14, 2007 - 05:34pm PT
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The BEST method for hauling water is to have someone else do it for ya!
Salathe in a day and some nice climber types left a relatively fresh 5 gallon jug a pitch below El Cap Spire. Now that was nice of them.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2007 - 05:35pm PT
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Did you have a hot stove accident before your ascent?
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 14, 2007 - 05:37pm PT
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RE:
"So I just went back to the bottle."
Camelbaks success given all their quality and design issues is kinda surprising, a lot of us thought the idea was just too geeky however, when all the indicators showed the thing was going to go big, potential competitors still payed little attention.
Of course the idea is still in a kind of developmental limbo but, don't look for advancements too soon, the outdoor industry still thinks RF welding can only be done on a one dimensional plane.
Q - why does the Camelbak hose exit from the BOTTOM of the bladder?
wouldn't it be cleaner and easier if it exited from near the top and fed from the bottom?
but I digress...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Sep 14, 2007 - 05:51pm PT
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Climbing with a pack on builds character. Doh!!
I assume Russ is referring to short to medium length rock climbs. Alpine climbs are another ball of string.
When you look at the stuff some people take for the dreaded "multi-pitch" climbs, it's a wonder they don't need a camel, not just a camel back. Prussiks. Grigri. Slings. Doohickeys. Several water/hydration bottles or bags. Lunch. Sun screen. Sun glasses. Spare rope. Thingies. More prussiks. Camera. Wind/rain jacket. Sweater. Shoes. Surprising they remember they're there to climb.
Part of it is the way climbing is now taught and marketed - a "multi-pitch" isn't just another climb, it's a big hairy deal. Carrying a lot of marginally necessary stuff confirms that it's a BHD, is what they're told to do, and ensures they feel secure. Eventually they learn.
I haven't yet found a hydration bladder that seems reliable, and so won't use them for climbing. If I'm carrying the water, it's because I'll need it. And if I need it, I want the carry system to be reliable. Though, as someone pointed out upthread, hydration needs are often overestimated, and can often be dealt with by pre-hydration.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Sep 14, 2007 - 05:58pm PT
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haha Russ, no hot stove accident.
just goin lighter than normal for a day climb...
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Sep 14, 2007 - 06:01pm PT
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"Q - why does the Camelbak hose exit from the BOTTOM of the bladder?
wouldn't it be cleaner and easier if it exited from near the top and fed from the bottom? "
Cleaner and easier? Well, cleaning might be easier.
I like bladders with a detachable hose, and that seems like a good way to do it. One of my platypus bladders has a hose that screws in the bottom. Much easier to dry than bladders with a fixed hose.
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G_Gnome
Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
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Sep 14, 2007 - 06:03pm PT
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I have found that women in particular have leaky bladder issues when I am around. I don't understand it, but there it is. Ask any of them.
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Sep 14, 2007 - 06:31pm PT
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Tarbousier,
As a retired sometime modern dancer from SF, I have to say I really admire a man secure enough to post pics of climbing in a sleeveless top with suave hat, AND reveal his penchant for italian designer bags in the same thread!
lol - the platonic brotherly kind, not that there is anything wrong with the other.
Peter
ps. this is KNOTT an invitation to post the pic of our brief experimentation with cross dressing long ago, they have all seen it, and we didn't wear packs, the purses were fine for the rack and beer.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 06:41pm PT
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I know, I know Maysho,
Altogether quite, so, so...fetching, dah-ling.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Sep 14, 2007 - 06:44pm PT
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khanom wrote:
"If I do not eat constantly I hit the wall very fast. Even just 5-6 pitches. It's not that I can't keep going, just that my body starts to complain in the form of a really bad stomach ache, coupled with, well, gas."
Sounds like intestinal parasites to this layman. Like Russ said, you might want to get checked.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 07:15pm PT
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But truly, when it comes to the all-time suavest, sexiest, most come hither of the sleek pack designs for the alpinist, Karrimor ruled:
But then, as Ray Dog said:
“Yah, and a lot of guys died with those strapped to their backs!”
I lso like Lafuma, Millet, & Berghaus.
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murcy
climber
San Fran Cisco
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Sep 14, 2007 - 07:26pm PT
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water, rain jacket, first aid crap, food, headlamp, batteries, sun block, guidebook, camera, cell or satellite phone, compass, space blanket, identification tag, wallet, vitamins, rosary beads, flare gun, last will and testament, inspirational quotes, jumbles book for belay.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 07:41pm PT
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Murcy Me!
For all that detritus,
May I recommend this model:
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 07:44pm PT
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 07:50pm PT
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Pman
Trad climber
Upstate NY
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Sep 14, 2007 - 07:51pm PT
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How else can we get all the crap that we "might need" up there????
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 14, 2007 - 08:03pm PT
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RE:
"for the alpinist, Karrimor ruled"
yes, and too bad the essential winning attributes of those products has sorta died out, favoring, I don't know, some sort of limp, hard to use pin-headed tourist gizmo-laden thermo formed abortions...
lets count em - big pack, how many operations to open,
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.............
oh yeah, great stuff - works super in a carpeted air conditioned office...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 08:43pm PT
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Modern gladiators:
Second ascent of the grand West Couloir, Aig du Plan, 1976.
Jello probably solo’d it.
Photo of Gordon Smith by Kerry King, Mountain 56
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maestro8
Trad climber
Sunnyvale, CA
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Sep 14, 2007 - 08:54pm PT
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As far as carrying a pack on short climbs, it makes a lot of sense at the Leap.
...to avoid dehydration on your two-hour epic up East Wall?
...to avoid the five minute hike required to reach the base from the trail?
...to blend in with the rest of the ultra n00bs there?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Sep 14, 2007 - 09:01pm PT
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You guys have it all wrong, a sippy cup won't hold even one 16oz OE.
If you can't carry the load;
find a friend who can!
steelmanky-why do you think they call it a ten gallon hat?.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 14, 2007 - 09:06pm PT
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RE:
" Hey, you're dissin my buddy Jello's fine accomplishments in pack design. "
hell no, early Lowe stuff was clean and a necessary step in evolution.
where its gone since then is kinda lamentable but probably necessary too.
is it really "market driven" or part of psudo-corporate pissing match where everyone in the business is busy imitating TNF etc?
right now, I kinda think packs are like the cars of the 40's.
PS - nice pic AC
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:26pm PT
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Sep 14, 2007 - 10:28pm PT
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During the Facelift, if you paid your way to the sushibar, the next morning I will gladly supply you with a Sushi Wrap if, and only if, you wear a backpack and carry it up a climb. A Grade I 5.6 would be preferred. And I'll make you two wraps if you stuff it in a FISH back (maybe a haul bag - they are big, after all....).
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:05pm PT
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This random thread has turned into a classic!
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:09pm PT
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Doug Scott and Chris Bonnington
climbing on the SW face of Everest
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:19pm PT
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Talk about classic packs...what about the old Jensen pack.
My first real pack. Classic!
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:38pm PT
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
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now Todd, that's a real fine shot.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:40pm PT
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Hey;..it's a FISH pack;....bomber!
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:43pm PT
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Lowe pack;...bomber!
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Sep 14, 2007 - 11:45pm PT
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What the....
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 15, 2007 - 01:02am PT
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Traverse of the Gods -
Eigerwand
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Sheets
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 15, 2007 - 01:08am PT
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My ginormous pack carries my emergency midget.
You never know when you're gonna need a midget in a cowboy suit.
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tetonhack
Social climber
jackson wy
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Sep 15, 2007 - 01:12am PT
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Come on now Russ, you don't don't want to get dehydrated or worse yet caught up on the Nut Cracker in just yer huggies
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2007 - 01:14am PT
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Brents... you have seen my reserves.... I need no food or water for days on the vertical desert.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 15, 2007 - 09:45am PT
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At least 10 years ago, the Guides at YMS were required to carry a pack on all climbs, to carry their first aid kit among other things.
I don't like things rattling around my harness so I always carry a pack except on one or two pitchs climbs.
Includes
very small first aid kit
4 oz Patagonia Dragonfly cause it gets windy a few pitches up
water, cause I hate being thirsty and Yosemite is hot
Small point and shoot camera because I'm a photographer dammit'
a few bars or goo
micro led headlamp cause it never leaves the pack or you'll forget it when you need it. Even some some climb when I know I could always pull it off, you dont know if you could need to hang out to help somebody else out in a rescue situation or have stuck ropes
If it's a walkoff, I bring light water shoes cause I can't walk in climbing shoes
If getting dark and/or cold is an option, I have a very light fleece layer and a hat
I use this stuff all the time. It's called taking responsibility for your team rather than hoping everything goes perfect everytime without fail
Peace
Karl
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Sep 15, 2007 - 10:11am PT
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If it's a walkoff, I bring light water shoes cause I can't walk in climbing shoes
Karl, you got a photo and/or recommendation, regarding those "light water shoes"?
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Sep 15, 2007 - 10:20am PT
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Hey Raydog,
Greetings! What do you think of the Mt. Hardwear Exodus frame series? Not for climbing, and it has some impracticalities, but it sure feels amazing to walk on rough terrain or ski with a load. The designer, Charles Mosely, is a good friend of mine. I watched him tinker with these ideas for almost a decade, trying to get his own patent before he got "bought" by the big boys.
Peter
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Sep 15, 2007 - 10:39am PT
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Sometimes a little pack beats having all that stuff hanging off you
Descent shoes
Fleece Pullover
Water
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 15, 2007 - 12:38pm PT
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Hi Peter -
RE:
" Hey Raydog,
Greetings! What do you think of the Mt. Hardwear Exodus frame series?"
In summer 2000 I tested a frame pack against 3 popular full-size internals and, no doubt, for carrying loads 16 miles on a trail in the high country, the frame kicked-A - a JanSport $150 dollar frame pack proved WAY better than Dana Arc-flex, Gregory Denali, ArcTeryx Bora (demo packs courtesy Neptune Mounianeering) , much lighter, better at what it was designed for and way cheaper to boot so - yeah, an external type frame can be a good thing - frames neglected for a long time - I'm betting the Mtn Hardware packs perform really well.
A mobile load carrying tool - for max weight, has a frame.
For mid-size to light loads, the structure is optimized as the "frame" or shell to be more exact. The degree to which the structure can be engineered for the best all-around attributes determines which tool works best for the widest range of loads/activities.
The holy grail of mid/full pack design, is to support the load completely while allowing complete freedom of movement by the user.
I would say, if we accept the above as valid, modern internals constitute an evolutionary step backwards.
Look at how load carrying tools have been made for the vast majority of human history - baskets, conical shaped exo-skeletal designs requiring minimal harnesses - you can see them being used in Egyptian hieroglyphics - these are the real benchmarks, they show us that the current thinking, while necessary for sure, is the exact opposite of what it should be in terms of an engineering approach.
What you are looking at when you view a big Gregory, Dana, ArcTeryx type pack - is an anomaly.
cheers Peter -
Ray
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Sep 15, 2007 - 05:10pm PT
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External packs are cool, because they are old.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
California
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Sep 15, 2007 - 06:57pm PT
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Fish,
Are you thinking of making a speciality pack for day climbers? I would love a small, sturdy pack with multiple division panels to divide food, water/ clothing/ left over gear, walk off shoes etc. I will like an inside security pocket for car keys and wallets. Plus a small top pocket for headlamps and first aid kit.
It will be nice also if it can have a hydration system and a few daisy chains on the side of it.
If you can have a side zipper, bottom and top zipper to access the pack from multiple angels. Plus if you can have a daisy chain inside the pack to tie everything in so nothing can truly fall out.
God, I am dreaming...
AF
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2007 - 07:01pm PT
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Anna, you lead a rich fantasy life......
edit: you too n00b
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2007 - 07:21pm PT
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The Ron Paul pack... maybe you should pick one up?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2007 - 07:25pm PT
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ooooh... I know you are but what am I.....
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2007 - 07:30pm PT
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Sorry, school is closed today. Go look up link or something. Or have a smoke?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2007 - 07:31pm PT
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I'll just do the next post for you:
fukking republicunt brownshirt!!!!! LMFAO!!!!!!
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Sep 15, 2007 - 07:39pm PT
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When the pack is loaded and I am heading off to do a back country alpine climb with a cool partner, that is a magnificent feeling of joy. Adventure adventure adventure, that's what we do.
Second best feeling: Returning to the car after a successful climb for cold Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2007 - 07:46pm PT
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For the record, AC wanted to toss his "foil" into the ring. He has a Russ boner and just can't resist rubbing it on me. Too bad for all the other readers that you have to witness his continuous leg humping. He's sick. He needs help.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Sep 15, 2007 - 07:49pm PT
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Crawley leg humping, now there is a visual. Crowley makes a living keeping an eye on us sh#t stirrers. He is homeland security.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Sep 15, 2007 - 08:00pm PT
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Who carries a pack?
Note: this is not intended to be political..
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Sep 15, 2007 - 08:02pm PT
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One for the other party
That cigarette in the butt is especially cute....
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2007 - 08:03pm PT
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Really Crowley... get some help.
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Ouch!
climber
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Sep 15, 2007 - 09:35pm PT
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Sep 16, 2007 - 02:19am PT
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water - ok maybe not shorty pie routes, unless hanging out all day FA'ing.
but criter chew prevention is key, specially in well travelled areas.
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helmet
Trad climber
Vienna, Austria
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Sep 16, 2007 - 04:06pm PT
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 16, 2007 - 04:09pm PT
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that's a nice one helmet - a good execution of a really cool function-specific design.
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morphus
Mountain climber
Angleland
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Sep 17, 2007 - 02:47pm PT
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this is me with my trusty Lowe sack in the alps
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2008 - 03:18am PT
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Bump for Big Wally
edit: pretty funny with all those posts that are missing between Lockers posts..... I wonder what was in there? Seems like someone turned "off" the AC.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Yonder
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Jul 12, 2008 - 09:16am PT
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A rope, a rack, & a fat sack(in my pack).
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 12, 2008 - 09:32am PT
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Packs on three pitch routes- I see it all of the time, another sign that the median climbing IQ is at an all time low.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 12, 2008 - 12:33pm PT
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I can’t speculate about people climbing today. But a couple of observations.
I have been told when I first began climbing I caught flak because I did not climb with a pack. No one ever said anything to me, of course. Would not have bothered me. I was not harming anyone or anything. I understand people were pretty generally using the area to practice for their annual trip to the Tetons.
It was while I was snowshoeing through Avalanche Pass in a blizzard that I first considered doing something with the rock. I had been pushing through almost three feet of fresh powder and so was warm despite the wind when I reached the “Hitch-Matilda.” When warm under challenging conditions it tends to make one a little unrealistic. I looked up at the waves of snow sweeping across the face below the Colden Slide and thought how interesting it would be to be up there. Wisely I never did it, but still. There is another level of thinking where you are actually living for an extended time under severe conditions. Rather than take up alpine climbing, I eventually satisfied that impulse by moving to California.
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 12, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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A rack of Bud! Good idea!
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Jul 12, 2008 - 03:05pm PT
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yes, I recall back in like '75/76 doing the first ascent
of a 40/50' crack in San Diego called the Fang.
My partner, surfer Dave, led the thing on-sight,
slotting a borrowed #10 hex at the OW crux and
lie-backing; 5.9, it seemed.
Dave wore his red Wilderness Experience Kletter sack,
in it, a glass mason jar of water and the bong, of
course.
We did the thing in Two pitches!!
Mass loads at each belay.
Why we didn't die??
god knows....
funny as hell looking back.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 12, 2008 - 09:03pm PT
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Holy schnikes I had a bit of an epic today in the heat, bushwacking. The pack was the problem...mostly. I had to solo 5.7 out of Aquarian so I just slung my pack , climbed out, and hauled it up.
It's a longer story....
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Yonder
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Jul 13, 2008 - 12:35am PT
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I always try to leave the pack...Climbing with a pack sux(a lot)...
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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holy shite this is funny....
What's in all those packs? was the questoin, then somebody posted up the advert from the FISH website detailing all the goodies to be stored in said FISH pack....
Russ, were you making up all the stuff on the site on the fly?
When I would solo easy stuff in the valley, I'd wear a camelpack, for the water, storage of much needed greenery, and a place to store my smelly sandals for the walk off.... oh yeah, little bita food too
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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And you guys call yourselves TRADS!! Who among you can remember the classic scene of Clint Eastwood in the Eiger Sanction. TRAINING on the Totem Pole..........with a heavy sack on his back. Aspiring no less to a FA with his partner George. When they get to the top Eastwood asks "Why the hell is this pack so heavy?" and George tells him it is because he is carrying the beer.
We carry packs on climbs because by doing so we are better climbers and therefore better people.......and better drinkers. It's TRADITIONAL damn it!! Why go deeper than that?
A rope..........A rack.........a very heavy sack.........
People who don't carry sacks are just WEAK!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Plus some have been known to carry packs - with pillows in them, of course - to annoy Russ. Or so I've heard.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
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After this climb, for which I carried a pack because I thought we were going to hang out all day, in the sun, at the top of the second pitch, doing off-width variations, and I'd need the water, I swear I am never climbing with a pack if the route is less than 4 pitches on a hot day, 6 on a lovely day. I am gonna make myself a large chalk bag to hold the essential goodies. Maybe make that a blanket 6 except in some limited cases. Gotta have wiggle room...
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MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
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It's an ape thing - the heavier the load one can carry, the more desirable one becomes to the opposite sex.
The Mountaineers have found the 'ape'x of this inevitable distillation, they always get the hottest women.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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If you have a cool enough pack ya kinda can't help it.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Russ,
WHERE DO I PUT MY BEER THEN? Either I haul the drill, hammer and beers or I pack em!
kev
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Park Rat
Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
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Packs CA 1957,1958
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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I <3 CAMELBACK
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Okay, everybody please avert your eyes while I climb this winter WITH A PACK ON!!!!
Training for a project.
I need to get used to the different center of gravity.... Sorry to bother you watchers as I climb.
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MH2
climber
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That's an idea. Maybe these guys are training for a project.
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