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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 19, 2004 - 01:26am PT
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so coiler proposed an "obscurity rating" in the "best of the best" thread... perhaps you all have some suggested candidates.
"(O0 being routes like: The two cracks just to the right of "Grant's Crack" and O7 being routes that fell off [like "Werner's Crack"] or routes of legend, or theoretical routes)"
Rating routes that are no longer in existence raises some problems for me.. perhaps these should be more like bicycle road racing's "Hors", beyond catagory climbs (on a bike).
Anyway, some obscure climbs that I have attempted (or at least looked for):
The Gardener Did It, Manure Pile Buttress, 5.9, an obscure climb right under my nose? never found it...
God's Creation, Manure Pile Buttress, 5.10a, not so obscure as to escape retro-bolting however...
Euellogy, 5.10a, Mojo Tooth, anyone do it? the definition of steep... Gary couldn't understand what my problem was, even after he lowered me from below the roof and did the bottom on top rope... how do you spell "steep"...
Wise Crack, 5.10a, The Royal Arches Area, two things: classic Valley "4th class" approach (have your rope ready), and the truely funky bolts at the "sort of" belay station atop p2...
Eric's Book or The Prude, both short 5.9's, Mirror Lake, found them one rainy day and have not yet returned...
Almost everything around Camp 4 Wall, never run into crowds there, did run into Melissa and Kate up there once... an example: The Buttocks, 5.9, a lichen scraping chimney adventure.
I have no idea how to rate these on the O0 to O7 scale, I'd suggest letting the upper end of the scale "float", rock climbs which have succumbed to geological activity, or which are theoretical or legendary shouldn't count...
what say ye?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 19, 2004 - 02:36am PT
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I think the Obscurity Rating ought to be followed by a quality rating, probably the usual 5 stars but also including up to negative three stars.
Like
Church Tower O.5? Q-* (but great summit)
Harding Route on Apron Ob.5 Q -* (but long route that's still easy)
Direct Route on Column Ob.4 Q +1/2* (Totally great except for rock quality)
Upper pitches of Maxine's wall Ob.3 Q -*** (Runout dirt hummock mantels)
Route I just did left of Bridelveil Ob.7 Q no stars
Route I accidentally soloed on Conness Ob.7 Q +1/2 star
Galactic Hitchhiker Ob.3 Q***
Cloud's Rest My Favorite things Ob.3 Q** (Beauty but climbing isn't classic)
Shultzes Ridge OB.4 Q-* (lame but gets you to the EB of EL C0
Fecophilia OB.2 Q almost a star
FWIW
Peace
karl
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Matt
climber
SF
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Oct 19, 2004 - 03:27am PT
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Inner Reaches all the way to the right at Five & Dime
5.7 easy/wide w/flake to grab in the back, goes to really cool wandering & unprotected 5.6ish chimney, goes to filthy unclimbed lichen covered 5.9ish scary exit, goes to 'how the hell do I get off this rotten hill side?'
1 star for the chimney
-2 stars for the filthy factor
and i haven't really climbed enough obscure stuff to rate it on that level.
The East Butt of Lower Cathedral Rock- all pitches after the 1st 5 were somewhat unclimbed.
(i predict there will never be a ST for this route)
The last 3rd of the death slabs, in the dark, by headlamp, with a pack on, that may be at the top of my 'obscure' climbs list.
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Oct 19, 2004 - 09:18am PT
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I cant take all the credit for the Obscurity scale. It was started about 6 years ago with Ben "Benwa" Zartman, Jay"Shaggy" Selvidge, Brian "Mr. Way" Knight and myself. We were all on the quest to find the least traveled routes. the scale worked something like this: O0 being routes that are in the guidebook,usualy right next to something that gets done too much, like "Lemon" at sunnyside bench. It's the route you do when the old classic is crowded. O1 is the route at the cliff thats in the guidebook but nobody does, like, "inner reaches". O2 it's in the guide book and it still never gets done, I mean never. A good example of O2 is "Alley cat" on middle cathedral. O3, it's in the guidebook still, but nobody knows much about it, but Tucker Tech has done it; ex:"Phantom Pinnacle", or the "Flakes" on middle cathedral. O4 routes, they aren't in the guidebook but it's on the obscurist's tick list ,like "Via Aqua" or "church Tower". O5 routes, Little is know, but the consensus among obscurist's is that it IS there. Record shows there have been ascents. an O5 could be something like, "Spireview point" or Pohono pinnacle". O6 is getting tricky, It's definately not in the guidebook, and little is known about it. No know ascents among the Obscurists' circuit, "Willow th'-whisp" is a great example of this. Lynea Anderson and I have made several forays into the area of obscurity looking for it. Still we've never found it. O7 like I said is a route that doesn't exist anymore or maybe never did. Like "promulgated pinnacle" (which fell over in '98) or "Werner's Crack" which fell off in '97.
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 19, 2004 - 11:55am PT
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I'm reminded of an entry in the ANAM (accident journal) a couple years back about some people getting off route and mangled looking for the '5.6 second pitch' of some deservedly obscure line on the Lower Brother from the Sierra Club guidebook era.
Obscurity rules. How about the Chockstone Chimney, is that thing any good? Jose P. liked it a lot, not sure why. I wonder about the effect of this forum in the world: if a few people here began raving about a particular route, could it actually be made popular? Hopefully a truly worthless pile, maybe such that once you do it you know you've been had, and you must thereafter rave about it to others in order to sandbag them into going and doing it...
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 19, 2004 - 12:03pm PT
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Is that the Flying Buttress Direct?
I see from another thread that the Chockstone Chimney is well regarded.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Oct 19, 2004 - 12:18pm PT
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Would anything in Yosemite Valley be worthy of a high obscurity rating? Seems like only some little known route in the Namib desert or Antartica would be truly desrving.
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Melissa
Big Wall climber
oakland, ca
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Oct 19, 2004 - 01:40pm PT
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Hey, Coiler. Jay and I play with the O ratings still. We've added a couple of rules.
For example, nothing in the Supertopo can have an O rating.
For 07 I might suggests routes that you think are your own FA's, but find evidence of someone else's passage along the way.
Also, I think that logging in around 04 (on up depending on whether or know you actually know of anyone beyond the FA whose climbed it) are routes like the top pitches of Eagles Eirie or the Choinard-Pratt (mind slip corrected) where there is an arrow in the book telling you where to start, but nothing else. We climbed an unnamed moss filled 5.7 ow w/ an arrow (beside Supertoe) at Shultz' Ridge base earlier this year and rechristened it "Super O".
I also think that some crags are so accessible and non-obsure as to limit the maximum obscurity level of anything there. For example, I don't think it's really possible to climb 06 on the Sunnyside Bench, because you just know no matter how much choss might be built up someplace, others have checked it out and climbed through...and you can't really be all that obscure if you can hold a conversation with three different YMS guided parties during your lead.
My ratings (FWIW...which is only a few minutes of entertainment for me...) (In retrospect now that I've made my list, I think that there is some O grade inflation going on!)
I actually know people (obscurists though) who have climbed the Wise Crack, and it's at Royal Arches, so I give it an O2 or O3.
The Prude is on my O list. I don't know anyone whose done that, but it gets stars in the guidebook. It's in an obscure spot. I'll guess it's an 03.
The Buttocks is more like O0+ or O1-. I've climbed it, know many others who have climbed it, and I've seen it recommended as a practice TR. It still obscure enough to fill your eyes with lichen.
Maxine's... O1. I know a few people who've done it. Lower pitch in Supertopo. Everyone knows where it is.
EB of Lower Cathedral is O0 at most. Most of the people that I know who climb in Yosemite a lot and are good at that grade have done that route. Book gives it stars. It ends up on the ticklist of non-locals too.
Chockstone Chimney...I'd love to do this one. I'll give it an 02 b/c I know about 8 people who climbed it, but they are all either obscurists or climbing w/ obscurists. Rhodo, you can guess who went up w/ Jose et al. and also regarded it very highly. I think that some of those routes (i.e. the Hourglasses) at Ribbon Falls used to be more popular than they are now. Guess that's true of a lot of wider climbing areas (i.e. Elephant Rock).
Phantom Pinnacle has been highly recommended to me...as something that I might go do with an non-obscurity seeking partner, so I think that it might not suffer from some of the same sandbag and sand-filled issues as a lot of the 0-scale routes.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2004 - 12:11am PT
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My list of climbs in the Valley is something like 2500, I'd guess something less then 250 climbs get done regularly... or about 1 in 10; a lot of "obscure" to do for the obscuristas.
It is fun to hear from others about there lists. I've got Little Wing Area and Audubon Buttress on my list, among others. Obscure because of location and distance from the well worn paths, but not a very far approach, and very nice locations.
Chockstone Chimney was recommended to me by a venerable obscurista, Eric Gable, who really liked it....
...what about the unlisted climbs which were in old guides or magazine articles, like the stuff around Chappel Wall?
Intentional obscurity is something I've participated in. Developing areas often means being sworn to secrecy, late night hikes in the dark and non-kosher bivy's. But the experience is "priceless"... but I can't tell.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 20, 2004 - 01:48am PT
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Aww, Karl you bagged Cloud's Rest and Shultz's Ridge?
Cloud's is my favorite formation in Yosemite. I've never trekked out there to do anything, though - not worth it, eh?
And I found Shultz's Ridge to be pretty darn fun. Those 10+s are a neat sporty break from all the crack climbing I was doing every day.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 20, 2004 - 01:56am PT
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Supertopo definately influences what is popular or not. When I did Tenaya Peak there was no topo. It was pretty obscure. I couldn't find someone who had done it anywhere.
Now there's lines on the thing.
Coiler listed the O rating criteria so I see that I might have over O rated some of my routes. Still, there is a difference between the upper and lower pitches of some routes.
For example, lower pitches of Central Pillar and Kor Beck, not obscure. Upper pitches, plenty obscure. Bet a lot more folks have done the first pitch of Yin Yang, than the second!
Peace
karl
Oh Here's another one
West Arrowhead Chimney 0b. 5 Q -*** (Loose, Horrible!)
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Oct 21, 2004 - 10:32pm PT
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Chockstone chimney is one of my favorite Obscurities. It realy IS adventure. Great natural climbing too. Another great over looked route is Pohono Pinnacle, I did this with Tucker Tech a few years back. That route was alot of easy scrambling with some good little cruxes and some big views. The spire is obvious from camp four if you know where to look. A great little spire, we did the only ascent in ten years according to the summit register.
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Michelle
Sport climber
Zone 10
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Oct 21, 2004 - 11:03pm PT
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" Would anything in Yosemite Valley be worthy of a high obscurity rating?"
uh, Dave, sorry, but you need to go hiking. I find new and nasty dirty climbs to add to my list every week. I've even done a few (shocker).
sounds like all free climbs here, but what about Camp 4 Terror? Does the suckness of the approach enhance/detract from the overall obscurity rating or is there a suckass-approach rating as well? Is the mental health of your partner factor in as well? Does climbing, no matter where, with certain people qualify as obscure ("It's only about .10b." - my ASS)?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2004 - 01:15am PT
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Well every area has a "relative" list of well deserved "obscure" climbs... it might be hard to believe that an area like Yosemite Valley, as popular as it is, has any obscure climbs, but only a small fraction of climbs are in fashion in any given climbing era. Popular climbs of the past often fade into obscurity, sometimes well deserved.
On the other hand, there are REALLY obscure climbs. Perhaps my most proud moment came rambling around in the Canadian Rockies. We went up the Saskatchewan Glacier onto the Columbia Ice Fields headed for Mt. Columbia. We were whited out on the Ice Fields for 3 days. The evening of the 3rd day the clouds lifted just enough for us to shoot a bunch of compass headings, both to our objective and the escape route back out. The 4th day greeted us with a snow storm, so we decided to bail.
Our secondary objective was the West Ridge of Mt. Saskatchewan... a "recommended" route in the Kruszyna and Putnam guide. We went up there, a ridge is an easy thing to find, and tried to puzzle out the description in the guide, to no avail. "Put the guide away, we'll just climb it", of course the guide has no rating in it, the description weighs in with about 30 words for about 700 m of climbing (!).
After traversing on stacks of book sized blocks across to a gendarm we gain the ridge and some scary loose climbing with an ultra-light mountaineering rack (a set of nuts and hexes) in plastic mountaineering boots, we rapped off the ridge on single nut placements convinced that the first ascent couldn't possibly have gotten the location right. While 15 of the 30 words seemed to fit, the other 15 didn't seem to.
Well after a rainy descent down Terrace Creek (if you ever go there, do not bushwack UP the creek, you will be in a world of hurt if you attempt it!) to the Alexandra River, and a hike out across the flood plane of the braided river (which had over run the trail) we made it back to the road and caught a ride to our car (we ended up a couple of drainages away from where we planned).
We went to talk to the wardens about the situation back up from where we had come and learned that they had not heard of anyone going up there in 10 years. The asked us about the state of the bridges (nearly washed away in one case), and the trails, etc... talk about obscure climbs... we were out for 11 days and saw people on the first and last days only near the trail head.
So there is obscure, and there is obscure...
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Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
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Oct 22, 2004 - 11:25pm PT
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Ed:
Northwest Buttress of Lembert Dome??
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2004 - 12:49am PT
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Gary refers to an obscure climb in a popular place, Lembert Dome just left of "Cryin' Time Again"... Gary and I went up there on some sort of completeness jag of mine. The '85 TM guide has the Northwest Butt. of Lembert (5.9) as "notable". It is all rather obvious from the ground, not that I have ever seen anyone on it, nor has anyone 'fessed up to doing it.
It starts as a fourth class scramble, we went kinda high on that... when I saw the fixed pin in a crack Gary was just observing the rather airy aspects of our unprotected position. We got an anchor in and Gary went for the obvious corner. I took it from there, rather convoluted and though I wanted to go one way, I thought better of it and went another, to the right of the obvious corners. It was rather licheny, but after a bit I found the remains of a bolt, someone else had been here before.
Up on top of that pitch Gary lead the very loose third pitch to the top. It was an adventure, and fun because of it. Don't think anyone will go up there too soon. There was booty along the way, but it was old enough to be scary.
But my guess is low in the obscurity ratings...
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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"I've got Little Wing Area and Audubon Buttress on my list, among others. Obscure because of location and distance from the well worn paths, but not a very far approach, and very nice locations."
Ed H, based on your fine TR's that I always enjoy here, I've got to recommend The Riddler up at Little Wing. Not obscure, I don't think, but a wild feature that climbs wide and well!
I see that this thread is now almost five years old, so maybe you're all over that.
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scuffy b
climber
just below the San Andreas
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Ed & Gary,
After climbing Northwest Buttress of Lembert, I noted in my
guidebook "Don't do this climb."
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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I thought The Prude got buried in a rockfall?
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bob
climber
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Northwest Butt of Lembert gets done quite a bit, considering its an obscurity. I've seen three different parties on it over the last two years and I have two buds who've done it. I've only done the first pitch that has pins. Funky little moves past pins up to a huge ledge. I put a route up that goes off of the initial crack of the next pitch. Just stay in the right corner and don't go over to the buttress out left. Good corner climbing to a bolt and a hard airy mantle thingy. Next follow the flakes and corners to the top. The exit moves are airy for Lembert! Super fun route in my opinion and obscure.
Wow did i just babble. Someone go enjoy it next summer!!
Bob J.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Count me in the camp that says no route in Yosemite can have an O rating higher than... oh, I don't know, maybe O2. Yosemite is a big place, and there's plenty of room for confusion, and plenty of room get lost, but come on -- at least you know what valley you're in. There are plenty of places where even finding the right range, let alone the right valley, is a challenge.
"Well, I think so-and-so was in there back in the 60s, and I heard they they climbed a route on a really cool peak, but..."
Nonetheless, I think this is a cool idea and a good thread
D
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Dynamo Hum, Camp 4 wall. Quite good, actually.
JL
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2009 - 08:32pm PT
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Ghost, back off, it is the Yosemite Obscure System (YOS)
you forgot to mention that the topos are accurate, there is extensive satellite imagery available, and a large cohort of climbers to ask for beta.
Inspite of that, there are climbs that are largely unknown (I know, I've helped put up a few) but there are historic climbs that are lost...
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Love the phrase, obscurity rating. Can it be applied to ones social life as well as your climbs ? hehehe and Smiles
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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The Prude and Werner's Crack were both fun, easy climbs. Did 'em both a bunch of times with n00bs. Took several of my kids up Werner's. Did them both free-solo once or twice, too. Down-climbing the Prude was a tad dicey as I recall since it often had a fine dust on it which was probably a warning of bigger things to come.
The route started with a few face moves to a right-slanting thin crack and then some fun crack climbing to the rap point.
Werner's was a great one to take new lady climbers on because the initial face was so easy that they became confident and then you could watch them cry on the upper crack as it went from 1" to 6". "Don't worry sweetie, all will be just fine when you get up here..." Hmmm... as my daughter would say, "Creepy, dad... creepy.
Much like the Punch Bowl area on the Apron I don't think anyone ventures up to this place anymore. Not sure if ANY of the routes still exist.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Show of hands, who has climbed, 'The realm of the lizard King'? Pretty sure I have met all (six?) who had done so '76 to '87 (?) Anyone done it since then? A very cool route for those into that stuff!
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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Supertacos are for the masses. And Hotline remains O2 (cuz most of us have to yard on gear for 20 feet).
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Hotline is a very, very cool line, even if you do take a tension biscuit on the traverse, like I did.
Please tell me that such a premiere line, Hotline, can't possibly, have an Obscurity Rating? It's on the direct road to Astroman!. C'mon you pretend climbers... There aren't many climbs as cool as that, that you'll climb on that road... Maybe, Freestone.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Dynamo Hum was my first aid climb. Prolly took all day.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Proposed ratings for bushwhacking here go back to the 1960s.
Grade V bush was something like: "House sized boulders separated by unclimbable gaps filled with devil's club and grizzly bear dens. Visibility less than five metres. Axes, machetes and other tools required to progress, and to fend off mosquitoes."
There are places much like that in the coast ranges.
Kevin, I think MazamaRick did Seaside once.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Warbler, I knew that, and we must have exchanged the odd remark back then, or so. I've had various Yabo encounters, and I've had adventures with Cos & Werner (2 for one on an Owl attempt, '84) so, I guess I was trolling to see if anybody else has done that, worthy in my mind, route since then.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
pads are for girls
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" routes that fell off [like "Werner's Crack"] "
Was that the left-arching wide crack right above Mirror Lake ? I followed on that thing back in the 70s . The valley obscurity I would nominate is Potato Masher - a little 5.4 pinnacle way up on the Four Mile Trail ( in Roper's ?) . I remember the dude who lead it being pretty POed at such a long approach to such a dorky climb , but I enjoyed it .
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Feb 10, 2009 - 12:26am PT
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Mouth to Perhaps, on the Apron - bet that one virtually never gets done, or even mentioned these days. Terrifying lead BITD with EBs, with a possible 60+ footer at the crux pitch off the Mouth. Rick Accomazzo led that pitch first try, with no hesitation. I swear to God it felt like 5.11+ following in those caveman EBs.
JL
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Feb 10, 2009 - 01:05am PT
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Yep, Werner's "WAS" the left-leaning crack above Mirror Lake. First pitch was a face with huge potholes to a tree in a corner and then walk left on the ledge to a 1" crack that started to curve left and widen to a 6 incher. I remember seeing people trying to arm-bar it! The thing is like at a 60-degree angle so all you needed to do was walk your feet in the lower face of the crack. The prude was 15 feet to the right. There were a few other nice short lines up there like Rurp Rape (.10C), Precious Powder (.11A) and A Question of Balance (.9) Never did the last one as it seemed to wander upward into munge and blocks. Probably the same blocks that made the whole area a death zone!
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MH2
climber
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Feb 10, 2009 - 09:10am PT
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As Ed says, probably every area has its relatively obscure routes. Since this is Supertopo we understand the YOS would be the center but I have heard of an SOS. A few Squamish locals keep a list on their refrigerator.
Just a one-minute walk from the climbers' campground at Squamish there is a fine obscure climb: Hiphugger. Not hard to get to but hard to see. Out of many times I've been in the vicinity the only climbers I've seen on the route are Tom and myself.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 10, 2009 - 11:27pm PT
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Like Melissa and J, I find the old O7 for routes which no longer exist to be too limiting for the Obscurity Scale. I also believe there are a few well defined categories above O6 which may be useful for the Scale. So here is a revised upper end of the Obscurity Scale, with the old O7 now moved to O11, in the spirit of This is Spinal Tap http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_to_eleven
----
07 - not described in any guidebook or other published source.
Merely listed under the first ascent info in the guidebook, which suggests a general location.
In theory, the route can be found, or may have been found but is not in guidebook yet.
Examples: Corn Corner, True Grit, Nashville Skyline, Deadline Dihedral
08 - same as 07 (route is barely published), but first ascent party are not locatable,
or have been asked but do not remember enough to locate the route.
Or, route is unlisted, but a vague description has been obtained, and an attempt made to find the route,
but it was concluded the route cannot be located or identified.
The route probably cannot be found or identified.
Examples: Fireside Chat [in First Ascent info, but exact location and description forgotten],
route left of East Buttress of Lower Cathedral [vague description given, route not found]
O9 - old route, not listed in any guidebook, and believed to have been done in
time to appear in the guidebook (i.e. unreported).
Route has not been located.
Have vague description or general location, but not checked or not located definitely yet.
Example: Time to Get Wild and Loose (near Falls Trail)
010 - old route, not listed in any guidebook or publication, and believed
to have been done in time to appear in the guidebook (i.e. unreported).
Route has been located, but nothing is known about it.
These are routes you may notice with old fixed pins or bolts, but are
not in any guidebook.
Sometimes the old fixed gear is found when you think you are doing your own first ascent,
and you are not sure if the old route was completed.
Since these routes have been found, perhaps they are not truly obscure,
but nothing is known about them.
Note: O10 does not apply to new routes, which are not in the guidebook yet,
because they were done after the guidebook was released.
It is also does not apply to old routes which are located and have known
histories, but were not reported in time for the guidebook, or not included for some reason
(An example of this is Lightning Bolt Crack, Mt. Broderick - reported
with photos on supertopo).
Examples for O10:
old route left of No Butts About It which joins East Buttress,
old route left of Sacherer-Fredericks.
O11 - route does not exist anymore - destroyed by rockfall.
(formerly O7)
Examples: Werner's Crack, Promulgated Pinnacle
-
I've saved a copy of the revised scale, including Melissa's revisions on O4 and O7 (now O10) at
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/obscurity_scale.txt
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Apr 11, 2009 - 12:02am PT
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guesswhat.. c'mon over to the Rock Ice Mountain Club June 2 cuz Ed H will be there with a digital views of Yos obscurities.. Melissa, Jaybro, Matt, Clint, Munge.. eveyone is welcome to thrash the ratings and name that climb over beer and pizza..Jerry D, caught, woodcraft, Knott and many other ST'ers have been or will be there
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2009 - 12:52am PT
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Deep Obscurity #089453 sector "Sierra Point".
"The Fistabule" FA Walt Shipley & me number rating unknown.
Layman's rating hard fisting in a crack.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2009 - 01:06am PT
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What did you rate it.
We were a bunch a yo yo s on that thing, damn ....
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2009 - 01:17am PT
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Merry did it .....
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2009 - 02:18am PT
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Deep Obscurity #089454 sector beyond Arch Rock
Omakara FA John Bachar 5.12 something really hard.
This a deep sleeper out in the boonies where only real hard men venture. I found it and failed miserably. Told Johny Rock about it and he TKO'ed it.
Damn ... it's a beaut. Coz put it to sleep on the second ascent easily.
I've only managed to do it on top rope several times but all my lead attempts failed just before the end ....
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2009 - 02:24am PT
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Yeah Kevin
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 11, 2009 - 03:40am PT
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Werner,
> Deep Obscurity #089453 sector "Sierra Point".
> "The Fistabule" FA Walt Shipley & me number rating unknown.
> Layman's rating hard fisting in a crack.
Nice! The 1994 guidebook has it on p.228 as Fistibule 5.11c.
Not exactly roadside. O2 or O3, but I guess O.unrepeated and O.never_seen_by_most_people, really.
> Omakara
Is the crux up high still 1 1/8", or thin? I guessed thin for the "routes by type" list. (I figured I might as well ask).
Kevin,
> Obscurity is where it's at!
:-) For sure, finding the climb can be an adventure by itself. Then chapter 2 of the story starts.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
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Apr 11, 2009 - 04:53am PT
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" This a deep sleeper out in the boonies where only real hard men venture. I found it and failed miserably. Told Johny Rock about it and he TKO'ed it.
Damn ... it's a beaut. Coz put it to sleep on the second ascent easily. "
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bob
climber
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Apr 11, 2009 - 09:40am PT
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Mindahoonee Wall left of the Upper Falls was a great little adventure. I haven't spoke with too many folks who've been up there. I believe its a Shipley and ? route. First two pitches were strenuous 10D. Really obscure 10a later and the 11a pitch was just plain fun be it with a little vegetation. Anyone been up there? There's a corner left of this route on the same formation that looks radical.
Also, Indica Point. Way obscure and hard as FUG for 10b. Awsome ending pulling out of an overhanging 5.9 crack up and over the railing for the trail above Five Open Books.
Bob J.
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alpinerockfiend
Trad climber
The American West
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Apr 11, 2009 - 12:14pm PT
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So where do FAs fit into the scale?
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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hI Clint-
Saw that "Time to Get Wild and Loose" as an example of your obscurities. Grant and I climbed this route for the Trail Crew, after a big rockfall on the falls trail. The route climbs up right where the first main set of switchbacks end, where there was a big rockfall years ago.
Our job was to trundle huge blocks 3 pitches up!
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scuffy b
climber
Bad Brothers' Bait and Switch Shop
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I looked at Duncan Imperial a few weeks ago.
fixed pin with poot sling at the crux, several slings above on
a horn (possible belay) and yet higher, several slings.
Extra Credit, though, you can see it from the road, but it must
take almost a day to get to it.
And that thing GRE, that's probably not climbed too often.
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E Robinson
climber
Salinas, CA
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Scuffy, so how was GRE? I always wondered if anyone would ever head up to it...
Here's an obscure route that I thoroughly enjoyed...Nagasaki My Love/East Arrowhead Chimney...old Harding and Powell bolts for one of the picthes.
Nothing beats the jungle pitch on Chockstone Chimney, but it sounds like a trade route these days.
Has anyone ever been in the Pratt Chimneys on the N. Face of Middle since Pratt?
Elliott
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scuffy b
climber
Bad Brothers' Bait and Switch Shop
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Elliott,
I have only looked, so far. I went up one day to scope The Bin,
and took a hard look at GRE (the Bin was long-standing
objective) on my way down, then looked again the next day after
my "ascent" of the Bin.
I'm guessing that because of the roundness below the lip of the
cave/roof part, that it's going to be really hard but enjoyable,
if I get it. The upper part looks like a good reward for
pulling off the lower part.
GRE and Extra Credit are certainly at the top of my Arch Rock
list (goals).
sm
EDIT
there's a thread, The Bin, Arch Rock TR
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E Robinson
climber
Salinas, CA
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Just read the Bin TR, sounds like quite the adventure...I used to hate the scraping feeling of pulling stuck limbs out of constricting wide cracks.
With high pro in the cave on GRE, the hard moves are essentially top roped as I remember.
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WBraun
climber
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Deep obscurity #8709 cliff right behind "Cat Pinnacle".
Ala Moana big ass roof wide hands and fist.
FA me and Yabo. Pimpin hard roof crack .....
Deep obscurity #86032 "The Relm of the Lizard King"
FA Kevin Warhol aka, (warbler) & Yabo, second ascent me and Coz.
Awesome hard thin jammin.
Go get em men .......
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Vulva, Wyoming
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I tried to go look at AlaMoana one day.... hiked uphill for a long sweaty time, some of it crawling on hands and knees, and never saw the crag. I also managed to get poison oak inside my mouth from the many bushes slapping me in the mug.
I'm ready to go back.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 17, 2011 - 01:01am PT
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bump
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 17, 2011 - 01:42am PT
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really cool, thx Warbler
now the wyde guys have a new one to check out! 7-9 isn't just happy hour, it's wide!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2011 - 01:43am PT
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initial forays have begun...
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MH2
climber
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Jan 17, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
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Another interesting question about the obscurity scale.
We often see threads about extremes: the most El Cap ascents, etc., etc.
If there is an obscurity scale, what is the most obscure climb?
One proposal would be a climb that only 1 person knows about. If it ever appears on any obscurity scale it is automatically disqualified as the most obscure climb.
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scuffy b
climber
Three feet higher
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Jan 17, 2011 - 12:48pm PT
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I've gone and looked at Scab Laborer, spurred by Kevin's earlier postings about Devil's Dancefloor.
I'm really surprised to hear how little action
it has seen. I had assumed a handful of leads by now.
Half-hour approach from Tamarack, yes, true, but I've done the approach
from below a couple different ways (including the right way) and if Kevin
did it in an hour, he would be waiting quite a while for me to catch up.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 17, 2011 - 10:24pm PT
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 17, 2011 - 10:33pm PT
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It's the feature visible from the Tamarack Flat trail, on the way from Tamarack Flat along the north rim to El Cap. I hiked it in September 2009 after the FaceLift - I wanted to look at the recent fire, which was still burning in areas quite close to the trail up from Foresta to Tamarack. (Tamarack Flat campground was closed.) The photo is from where the trail up from Foresta intersects the trail (old road) coming from Tamarack - you then go slightly downhill for a km or so, then hook left and steeply up. I thought it looked interesting. I have some photos of flames and moonset and stuff, too - a nice day out, though probably 30+ km and about 1200 m elevation.
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MH2
climber
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Jan 17, 2011 - 11:08pm PT
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"Way up there on the obscure scale"
But lower after your post. A metric for obscurity seems self-destructive.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 17, 2011 - 11:30pm PT
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 17, 2011 - 11:32pm PT
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Hey, it's obscure, eh?
It was rather cool that there was already stuff starting to sprout amongst the ashes, although there hadn't been much rain since the fire, and indeed the fire was still sputtering along not far away.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 18, 2011 - 12:48am PT
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Another photo from my afternoon amble.
A metric for obscurity seems self-destructive.
Or, as some put it (less poetically), if I told you, I'd have to kill you.
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Jan 18, 2011 - 02:34am PT
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I don't think I have ventured in the the O7 category, but I have some routes in mind that could take me there!
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scuffy b
climber
Three feet higher
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Jan 18, 2011 - 12:08pm PT
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Kevin, I think if we did the approach to Braille Book, you'd be waiting
for me.
I'm not quite to the spring after approaching for an hour.
But from Tamarack, the approach is easy and really aesthetic.
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MH2
climber
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Jan 18, 2011 - 12:31pm PT
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From Mighty Hiker:
A metric for obscurity seems self-destructive.
Or, as some put it (less poetically), if I told you, I'd have to kill you.
I love that. A fierce obscurantist.
Going back the other direction:
"What did you climb today?"
"Don't know. Haven't named it yet."
And:
And the Wind seemed to add:
"The dream you dream shall live in your memory, a delight that never will stale; it will be your inspiration in the bitter years to come. But be careful! For what you have gained you have paid in full measure, but it is meant for you only. Keep my precious secrets to yourselves and reveal nothing to anybody."
I, obstinate as I am, have written a book about it.
PoW Camp 336, Gilgil (Kenya) July 1946
No Picnic on Mount Kenya
Felice Benuzzi
2 of the 3 things that Samuel Beckett said we can be sure of:
The inability to communicate
The inability to remain silent
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Aug 21, 2015 - 11:08am PT
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Bump for the O-scale
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 21, 2015 - 11:47am PT
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My O scale is like the old Nixon timetable for withdrawal from Viet Nam - secret. I will say, however, that there are plenty of obscurities in Yosemite Valley, the knowledge of which few people (other than, most likely Clint and Ed) possess.
Also, the Obscurity factor changes over time. Largo mentioned Dynamo Hum early in this thread. That route used to be popular as an A1 beginner's intro to aid climbing when it was the first pitch of Camp 4 Tree from South Base.
The obscurity factor is also aubjective. My route-mislaying skills can transform something like Schultz's Ridge into a hopeless search for the non-existent, when I was looking for the allegedly 5.7 start to get to the ridge's top.
John
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