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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 7, 2007 - 02:20pm PT
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Climbers are always in relationship to fear.
Fear is one of the most powerful ruling emotions humans experience and mastering it is one of the greatest lifelong accomplishments.
There are two basic categories of fear.
1. Instinctual protective fear (fear of burning your hand around fire, falling off a cliff)
This fear should never be eliminated, but can be managed, acted in the face of, and channeled.
2. Psychological fear.
Often of the future, conditioned by the past. There's this in climbing as well. Fears of failure, inadequacy, and many, many other things. There can be a physical component related to instinctual fear as well, fear of permanent injury and it's consequences and so on.
There are many faces to fear. Men like to think they are brave and may risk death but would do anything to avoid facing their emotions and talking about them.
So it's a broad topic. Talk about your fears and braveries, your walk and struggles with fear. Where you're going with it.
In the Castaneda books, the Shaman calls Fear the first enemy of a man of knowledge.
Peace
Karl
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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The defining traits of "panic" from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders(DSM):
# palpitations, pounding heart, or accelerated heart rate
# sweating
# trembling or shaking
# sensations of shortness of breath or smothering
# feeling of choking
# chest pain or discomfort
# nausea or abdominal distress
# feeling dizzy, unsteady, lightheaded, or faint
# derealization (feelings of unreality) or depersonalization (being detached from oneself)
# fear of losing control or going crazy
# fear of dying
# paresthesias (numbness or tingling sensations)
# chills or hot flushes
pretty well sums it up.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2007 - 02:32pm PT
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Thanks
Panic can certainly happen climbing. We've all seen it at one time.
What do ya'll think the relationship of Panic to fear is. Make makes Panic happen?(besides those symptoms)
How do we keep panic from arising from our fear
Peace
Karl
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cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
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It's funny how panic arises and accelerates out of nowhere. One second everything is fine, the next it's full on sense of impending doom, for no really good reason. Went walking in the surf last week, knee deep water with breakers chest high, loving every minute of it until I spotted something pitch-black floating in the water a few yards away and boom, all the symptoms above suddenly flashed over me and all I wanted to do was get away from there as quickly as possible. Problem was I was barefoot and had slowly worked my way out from shore tracking little sandy shoals amid the sharp lava rocks. All at once I had no balance, no depth perception, and every step was a mini-epic. Moreover, the evil black thing, whatever it was, seemed to be coming closer. I managed to retrace my steps back to the beach, where my daughter asked "What were you doing out there? You looked like a dork." Still don't know what the thing was, probably someone lost their swim trunks or something, but imagination is a powerful thing.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2007 - 03:41pm PT
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The ocean is great of creating panic. So out of our control.
I was trying to bob around near some Spinner dolphins off Kalalau in Kauai this winter and suddenly I was being carried out from shore and getting tired fast. The sort of calmish conditions evaporated as a big north shore set came in and pounded me repeatedly.
Redline was near and I had to stay calm and conserve. Just calmly swim away out of the rip to the side and time the ducking under the big waves. Didn't seem to be working but when my toes touched sand it was an amazing redemptive feeling.
I had time to realize "Maybe this is it?" and wonder how long I could last before swallowing my last drink. I intuitively knew I'd make it, which is also my bottom line climbing sometimes.
Peace
Karl
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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Dancing, for some reason, scares me. Last time I tried to go dancing, I 'bout had a panic attack. I got frozen in place and could hardly talk, thinking about going onto the floor.
My gf got really pissed off with me because it seemed like I didn't want to do this thing that she really liked. By the time we left, I was emotionally wasted.
Funny thing is that I know I can dance and actually like it. For some reason, the anticipation was incapacitating me. For me, it's one of those things that I shouldn't really think about because that just makes it worse. Just go out and do it.
Strange that I can go whitewater kayaking and climbing, where death is a possible outcome, and then get too scared to dance, where the worse that could happen is that I might trip. It's a totally irrational fear.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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I liked the Carlos Castaneda books too. Don Juan advised: "Take death as your adviser, it cuts thru all the crap." In climbing, for me, fear is the voice of death and I endeavor to take it as my adviser. Wherever fear arises I stop and reassess until I figure things out; then fear disappears.
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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Much of what we think of as instinctual fear is not in fact hard-wired at birth, rather it is a learned reaction from gained experience:
a little baby will reach out and put its hand in the pretty fire until it experiences the consequences of that action.
Learning fear is but one step on the route to becoming a "learned man"
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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One thing I have always appreciated about climbing and kayaking and similar activities, is that fear is more accepted and understood. Fear is part of the game and the causes of the fear are more obvious and appreciated. For me it has always been much easier to deal with fear in physical activities and outdoor exploration than in social interactions. Might be true of others on this list.
In climbing, danger and other obvious causes of fear are pretty clear, so we have devised rating systems to help individuals choose appropriate levels of risk. We don't tell a beginning climber to climb A5 in order to be cool. We know that the easiest and safest climbs are more fun than harder climbs for that beginning climber.
In most life situations we do not have that structure to tell us what is appropriate for our abilities, so it seems easier to get in over our heads in many other situations.
In climbing it seems that fear can build up if I stop or am stuck. If I keep moving, keep acting, fear is kept at bay.
The sensation of fear can be reduced by movement, by deeper breathing, by relaxation and looseness in the body. Fear is amplified as the body tenses up and breathing becomes faster and more shallow. People who suffer panic attacks tend to be very tense and tight in their musculature, though they themselves, being used to it are not aware of their tenseness.
Think of a guitar string. If it is very tight, a small amount of energy creates a loud sound - high amplitude. Loosen up that string and that same amount of energy does not sound like much at all.
A side effect of tenseness is that we tend to get tunnel vision. Our field of awareness narrows and we become less aware of subtle cues on our periphery. It is like driving in the fog. When something finally appears in our awareness it is already very close and closing in on us.
When we are more relaxed we tend to perceive changes and hazards coming from a greater distance giving us more time to react and compensate.
I can relate somewhat to the fellow who talked about his fear of dancing. I dance a few times a week these days, but yet I can get frozen trying to think of some next step. I have a basic repertoire of steps that are totally ingrained and I don't have to think about them. But after the 10th repetition I wish I could remember some step I learned two days ago! Then my mind goes into freeze mode and there is no way I can remember something I probably spent an hour on.
In order to remember the step I have to tell the lady what is going on and ask permission to experiment and screw up. If she says okay, then we start stumbling around and hopefully laughing about it and slowly the muscle memory returns and then I can gradually figure it out again, hopefully. So far the ladies keep dancing with me.
If I was afraid to try a new step until I remembered it in my mind though, I would be lost. I would tense up and be a wreck. It is only when I can shut off my mind and just let my body react to the music that I really have fun. If I think I need to do a dance perfectly it is a lot harder to do it well. If I feel like it is okay to mess up then it is a lot easier to let loose, mess around and I tend to dance better.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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awwwww... shucks.......
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2007 - 07:26pm PT
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These are some great posts above. I'm grateful you guys are here. Beats what we read in the mags (Don't get that started here though)
Dancing is not an irrational fear. It comes right from the basic fear that nags every human. The vulnerability of our identity/ego which, for most of us, is an imaginary concatenation of our perceived personal history and self concept If we base our idea of ourselves on an evanescent sand castle, it's natural that we're always threatened with fear within. The alternative, give up investing in the ego. Just BE and see how you feel and where it leads
Thanks for that great post by Paul in particular
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2007 - 10:29pm PT
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Dragon with Matches poste this on the Ton Sai thread
fwiw
Karl
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I know I have fear, but I don't know how I experience it when I am in danger myself. That is a strange statement, I know, but I've always had an over analytic viewpoint in first person.
This is another kind of fear than what Karl mentioned...
The one time I was in fear, however, was about the possibility of my good friend Lawrence having been killed ice climbing in the White Mountains on one of the frequent trips we took in the winter. It all starts in the strange ways that climbing road trips can take. Lawrence, Mike and I decide we have had too much of school, living in NY City and not climbing. A plan is hatched and on the appointed day we set off for New Hampshire. I think we left late and crashed at Lawrence's parent's house in Thetford, VT. Getting a few hours of sleep in a sort of youthful touch-and-go that I probably couldn't pull off anymore.
Lawrence has to stop off at his old fraternity at Dartmouth to pick up the fourth for our outing, a young woman named Libby. On the way over Lawrence is explaining the arcane concept of co-ed fraternities, and his own climbing fraternity. We park, Lawrence disappears into the late late night and returns with Libby... greetings and introductions all around. Although it is way early in the morning, the local constable pulls us over, shines his 16 C-Battery flashlight in all our eyes and demands that Lawrence prove that he can recite the alphabet backwards while standing on one foot waving his arms in the air. Which he does with aplomb. Off into the chill we go.
I don't remember much of that drive out, but we get to Pinkham Notch, assemble our kits and hike off to Huntington's Ravine. Lawrence and Libby are going to do Pinnacle Gully and Mike and I on O'Dell's Gully, both WI3 climbs, both real classics.
The sun is up now but the thermometer which hung off my pack wasn't above 10ºF and wouldn't be that day at all. We make our way up the gully. I remember having a mixed set of ice screws, the Salewa steel screws always seemed to ice up, but the Chouinard screws were better, and we could set them with the handy ratchet tool. Even still, we never believed that any of this pro would hold long falls. Crazy times... fortunately we didn't test the protection much (actually ever).
Mike and I get to the top of the gully, and we're at the famous "Alpine Garden" which is a large bench beneath the summit of Mt. Washington. The wind is howling as usual. The sun is out. No Lawrence or Libby. We call down, no reply up... we decide to eat some food. The food prep is always interesting in the northeast. We cubed the cheese into raisin size bits because it freezes. You put these pebbles into your mouth and sort of warm them from the outside in licking the soft cheese to get to the frozen cheese beneath. Raisins are also frozen. The crackers aren't but our water is, punching through the top level of ice in the bottles to get to the liquid stuff within.
We are now cold due to our relative inactivity and the fact that there is really no good place to get out of the wind. We call down again, no reply, so off we trudge, figuring that they finished before us and went down to do another gully. Off Lion's Head we go, and down to the lean-tos. A wild ride in powder and spruce. We hang out in a lean-to, ours were the only tracks on the descent, Lawrence and Libby weren't early.
Sitting there, the caretaker comes by and we have a conversation. By now the sun is behind the mountain, the temps are dropping again, and Mike and I are getting anxious. "Come by if they don't show up soon" is our invitation. Another hour or so goes by, early evening and a glorious Aurora fills the sky with a beautiful diffuse red glow. Still no Lawrence or Libby. We trudge to the caretaker's cabin.
Inside it is warm and light and safe, but I am overtaken by dread, and by fear. My very good, young friend Lawrence is missing, and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of possible fates. I only think about what I will tell his parents. Since Mike and I are both "married" and we both have children, there has always been an implicit trust given to us by Lawrence's mother that we'll keep him safe, not wanting to leave our own loved ones.
"I'll call down to the Harvard Hut and have them go up under the gully and look" the caretaker says and radios down. It takes a bit of time, filled with a most intense anxiety, for them to get up to the base of the climb, but the good news is that there is no sign of climbers there. Still, where could the be gone for so long? the worry continues. "I've got the rescue team coming up." Those guys really make short work of the trail, and I am giving them a description, I'm too wiped out to go with them. Off they start, up the way we came down...
They're not gone five minutes when a single headlamp appears above them. Listening in the cold, still air the entire conversation is clear to us. It's them, trudging off the climb. I am now totally exhausted, worry and fear start to go away. They get down to us and are obviously ok. Lawrence is acting like it's no big deal. Later we find out that this is Libby's first ice climb, ever. And it took a while for Lawrence to teach her the basics! on the climb!! When the finally go to the top they were hungry so the stopped to get some eats, and then started down.
We get to the car, now really late, and somehow I am put in charge of driving back to Thetford. Ugh, the only thing that saved us on that ride was the frost heaves on the Kangamangus Highway that would jolt me awake regularly. We pull in, find a note directing us to dinner. I'm totally shot from the emotional roller-coaster of the day, "I'm not hungry, I'm going to bed."
Sleep comes easy and we wake late. It's Sunday and we're having a traditional New England dinner at around 2pm. Lawrence mother is making conversation, "my, you were so late we were thinking of calling out a rescue party" Mike and I are looking at Lawrence, who mumbles something polite...
...but I still remember that dread and fear of having lost a partner.
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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REEEEEALY great thread!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2007 - 10:31am PT
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Ed's post brings up some interesting questions. I suspect that fear of the loss of a partner is a psychological fear that projects a future possibility.
The question is "What's the real source of this fear, or combination of sources?"
Is it sheer empathy regarding the pain of another? Does Empathy have fear built in?
Is it fear of personal loss? What is fear of loss rooted in?
Is it fear of our own vulnerability and mortality projected into the circumstances of another?
Is there an element of fear of responsibility and blame that we'll experience if somebody goes down under our watch? Fear of our own inadequecy to protect.
Basic fear that we lack control of happenings in life?
I can't say I know but it's worth looking into.
It's tough to look within and see the root behind the basis of the fear, but identifying the root is essential because the thing in itself isn't the real fear. (ie We don't fear dancing, we fear being inadequate or something like that)
Peace
Karl
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quartziteflight
climber
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Carl,
Have you read the rock warrior's way? I think arno talks about fear management in the book
It seems like certain events or your mental state really contributes to how one manages fear. For example if you've been climbing regularly and have your lead head "screwed on" whipping on gear isn't such a big deal, but after I lay off or not climb regularly I'm not as willing to fall on gear...etc
Most people are born with certain types of rational fear. Dying, heights, snakes, and some other things. Certain experiences in life contribute to fear. I know a couple folks who were attacked by dogs as children and are scared shittless when a dog comes running up to them.
Crowds freak me out. The mall, sporting events, tourist crowds in the valley, crowded bars. blah! Slab climbing ahh!!
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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Fighting my fear is just about an everyday occurance. It has taken me awhile to realize just how conservative my parents really were, and how much their fears settled into my unconsciousness. Fear of abandonment, fear of a lack of money, fear of physically getting hurt and being unable to work and pull your weight.
The Rock Warriors Way gave me some concrete ideas on how to evaluate if something is a rational or irrational fear, and what to do about it.
I have learned a great deal as well be reading Castaneda.
(An aside, just how many of us have read all of Castaneda's work?)
I was excited when I saw this topic Karl, thank you for posting it, and thanks to everyone else for their insightful posts.
My fears? Good grief, it's ridiculous. One of the biggies is a fear of crowds. I think it totally depends on the "group mind" involved with the crowd in question, because sometimes I'm fine, and sometimes I'll get a panic attack.
Fear of getting hurt is the next one, and this one can really hamper my style! I'm starting to relax some on this, I've been hurt and survived. A very good friend of mine was seriously injured and should have been dead last year, and he's back climbing 5.10 Tuolumne slab!
I really have to get outside my self to look at my fears, and this is something I had no idea how to do until a few years ago.
Thanks don Juan!
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quartziteflight
climber
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HJ,
I started the teachings of DJ, but never really like it or finished it. I've heard some of the other books are more interesting. The RWW is pretty helpful..
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2007 - 02:30pm PT
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It's funny about those fears that are quirky, particular and not understood at the rational level. Some of it could be traumas, real or imagined, that we had as kids.
Folks who are open to the idea of past lives might consider the many ways we could have been traumatized and killed in previous existance. It's a powerful enough experience to carry over if anything does.
I gotta read Arno's book. One of these days. Read all the Casteneda books but the last one or two before he died. Actually got to hear him speak once. Trippy guy, he was getting old but very alive and animated.
The special fears we have of one kind of bug or another is rather odd and unique. I have a friend who hates bees. Spider and Snakes and so on. Some folks can cuddle with one and hate the other.
It's probably a good idea to choose a fear we have and make a point of flirting with it once in awhile, see if some progress or breakthrough can be made. Oftentimes, the barrier is more imaginary than real. Dealing with it could be as simple as (for guys) asking directions from a strangers, even when you could figure it out yourself.
Another one is bringing up some emotional issue in a relationship that we're not certain is going to be easily recieved. Sometimes it's a relief if done with compassion, acceptance and honesty and the unseen but always-felt pressure is lifted.
Peace
Karl
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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I am not afraid of bugs or spiders or anything, yet if I decide to pick up a grasshopper especially or a moth, to get them out of the house or just to pick them up I can get a bit rattled. You have to grab them quick and firmly but not too firmly, and then they jump or flutter hard. Grasshoppers have that sudden flick kick to escape and it startles me, even though I know it is coming. If I don't grab him solid, that kick comes and my hand just jerks back even though a grasshopper can't do anything to you. Just the suddenness of the movement seems to startle me. And once startled it is hard to make the next grab smooth. Then the performance anxiety can set in! Thoughts like, "What's the problem? Just grab it, wimp!" I could go overboard and just grab it hard, wash off the grasshopper guts afterwards, but that never occurs to me. So I am trapped a bit between trying to grab it firmly, but not too hard, while my jumpiness makes it more difficult to grab it firmly and smoothly.
Crawdads are worse cause they actually nip, but its easier for me to say, "I don't really need to grab that crawdad." So then I can stare at them from a few inches away or poke at them with a stick, without risking my fingers. Maybe the fear is intensified from that indecision between wanting to grab and fearing to grab?
Moths aren't as bad, but still they start a tremendous fluttering just as you grab them that can be startling. Probably a lot more scary for the grasshoppers, crawdads and moths than for me though.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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Here's the thing about the Castaneda books. It's a progression, like his life was. It is very interesting to take the time to read all the books in the order they were written. It took me about 2 years. It was great to see Castaneda grow and learn, and it is reflected in his writing. For some reason, I still don't really have a judgment one way or the other about them. Now I'm on my second go round, in random order.
There are also a handful of other books written by the women who studied under don Juan. I have read all of those too.
I've read all of these with a bit of skepticism, and realize that they may not be entirly true. But that's OK, there is plenty of good stuff to absorb and think about.
I feel like I am a better person for having gone through the process. I've also had some really cool dreams!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2007 - 01:12pm PT
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Bump for the Monday Crowd
I was afraid you might miss it
Peace
Karl
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tradcragrat
Trad climber
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Fear can be so irrational sometimes. I sometimes get more scared following or toproping a really intimidating route than leading it. Hell, I've led R- and X- rated climbs that didn't spook me as much as following some climbs with the complete safety of a toprope. I guess on lead you're so focused that you forget about the irrational fears.
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Joe Metz
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Good thread, Karl. When confronted with fear, I make a conscious effort to retreat to rationality. For example, on a runout lead, when fear / panic starts to set in, I try to slow my mind down and take a realistic look at what is going on. Am I in really in danger of falling right here, or is it just the potential for a long fall or the consequences of the fall that I'm worried about? What are my options for movement or protection? I try to push back against getting tunnel vision -- look around for other options, for something to work with that I might have missed earlier. Can I reverse a move or two to get to a more secure location, where I can study the options? I try to concentrate on finding a solution and focusing on success rather than visualising the failure and its consequences.
In many ways dealing with fear while climbing is much simpler than dealing with fear in other life situations. When climbing, the things driving the fear are, for the most part, pretty obvious and can be confronted directly. Fear outside of climbing is often the result of lack of information (see Ed's post) that often leaves us to imagine a bad outcome and to become focused on it.
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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OK, here's another one. Back in 2000, I had a recurring nightmare for a week. In the dream, I was walking across the Golden Gate Bridge with my son, who was 6 at the time. Midspan, he asked me to help him look over the span down at the water. I lifted him up and we looked down at the ships below us. All of a sudden I drop him and watch him fall toward the water. In some variations of the dream, I grabbed his shirt for a second, long enough for him to look into my eyes and say "Don't drop me Daddy".
I had this dream several times a night for a week. Needless to say, I was completely wrecked by the end of the week. I was afraid to go to bed. That would be the worst thing that could ever happen to me.
About a month later, I was in Yosemite with him and we went out to Glacier Point. We walked to the overlook and looked over. However, he couldn't reach over the edge to see. He asked me to lift him up. As I started to, I got this deja vu from my nightmares and told him that it wasn't going to happen that day.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, Karl! The closest I ever came to drowning [in warm water] was in waves off of Kaua'i - my boogy board tether broke in huge pounding surf and I was left without flotation. All I could do was gulp a breath and hold it. I saw my board got washed into shore and screamed for help, but the waves were too loud, I was invisible. Treading water was hopeless cuz the undertow just swept my feet out from underneath. The best I could do was make like a jellyfish, float on top, and eventually I got washed in, like my board.
One of the closest times I've come to dying, pretty darn scary.
This spring my canoe got swamped when we hit four-foot rollers in a normally foot-deep creek. The water was from snowmelt, pretty much at freezing. I was kneeling on my lifejacket, not wearing it. How can you drown in waist-deep water, I thought. Suddenly I was swimming - in deep water! - bashed along in a six-mile-per-hour current beneath an unclimbable smooth four-foot-high bank, the breath being torn out of me by the cold. If I had mistimed my gulp of air, I might have been a goner. The canoe sure was - $3K down the tubes on that.
I'll wear my life jacket next time.
As for fear and climbing, or fear and life, it isn't about not being afraid, it's about facing down your fear.
Shut up and climb - whatever your mountain might be.
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WBraun
climber
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The big fear is thinking about woman at time of death.
You will be reborn a female in next life.
The greatest fear there is: is forgetting God at the time of death.
If you forget, you will be reborn in the material world according to the consciousness you have developed in this life.
Don't be thinking about your dog at that time ......
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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why not?, I'm sick of being human.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2007 - 12:39am PT
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The basic way to manage fear on lead climbing (or following for that matter) is to let go (mentally) and let the fear energy flow through you and not get tensed up in your body/mind. Relax, make a rational decision based on the circumstances and abandon yourself to the action intended.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2007 - 09:10am PT
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Ouch was along on my Hawaii trip. I'm tell ya, the waves were big.
No Fear Dude!
Karl
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Robb
Social climber
Under a Big Sky
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Jul 11, 2007 - 11:18am PT
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Karl
Next time don't forget to take the long board!!!
Robb
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2007 - 04:24pm PT
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Here's something I wrote on the rewards of climbing that combines a lot that we are discussing
It's an article on my site at
http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/Rewards_of_Climbing.html
The Rewards of Climbing
Folks have been trying to express the reasons and rewards of climbing for a long time. It's tough. I'm afraid I won't have the time or words to approach it now. But I'll make a start. Climbing can be anything from a crutch for our egos to a tool for personal transformation. It can be exercise, sport, art and religion.
We each have our own reasons and rewards for climbing. We may not even understand our reasons or be able to explain the rewards, but we feel something when we climb, and feel compelled to go on climbing.
For some climbing is like dancing; A joy in movement and self-expression. It can be merely exercise, which is pretty dang important to get! For others, climbing is mainly the backdrop for camaraderie and deeper friendships. We epic and we bond. We share this common experience, and now we belong somewhere. Some climbers become adrenaline junkies. We get a little jittery if we don't get the "rush" of some hard cranking on a regular basis.
It's easy for us to get our ego mixed up in our climbing. Most of the time, we are completely wrapped up in a mental dialog about ourselves. We weave an illusory concept of ourselves from our personal history and personal insecurities. That collection of concepts creates a false sense of identity which is our ego. We talk to ourselves internally about how we're doing, what we want, and what we fear. We struggle to find something special about our lives and ourselves. I have found that the false sense of self that this incessant dialog creates becomes a major limitation to peace and harmony in life.
We're seduced by our self-concept, and even if we experience climbing on some deeper level, it's hard not to relate it to our ego as well. Climbing is exotic and sexy. Being a "Climber" makes us special and elevates us above the mundane masses (at least in our minds) When we do something we didn't think we could, we feel better about ourselves. The more we feel our life's validity is related to climbing, the more we tend to think "our" type of climbing is superior to that of others. "Our" way of climbing is ethical and pure! Others don't understand because they haven't reached "Our" level. Still, it feels better to feel good about yourself than bad. Climbing's not a bad way to get there, if you can do it without putting others down in the process.
Sometimes climbing gives us a taste of something beyond our ego. Most of us have experienced flashes of peace and harmony while climbing. When I'm balanced on tiny holds and a lapse in concentration could send me plummeting to unknown consequences, I can't afford to be distracted by mental chatter. The circumstance of climbing brings me absolutely into the present moment. My whole being comes into focus on the problem of ascending stone. In the face of potential struggle for survival, the petty concerns of my little self dare not surface. I feel the power of my real being, integrated and intimate. I have the opportunity to realize that I would be better off without the incessant depressing pep talk of the mind. I start to break the habit of constant associative thinking. Being present and centered in the here and now is a state that is inherently fulfilling. Don't take my word for it, just notice for yourself when you are out on the stone, feeling in the groove! If you find you're having a bad day at the crags, take note of your state of mind. Collect yourself fully and see if things change.
Many sports have enabled people to have peak experiences. Anything that concentrates the mind creates a window for self-discovery. Climbing is an especially potent tool because the apparent risk DEMANDS our concentration. Concentration is not "thinking hard". It’s the focus of all our attention. Learning to focus and act in the face of fear gives us the power to respond when others simply panic. If I were a passenger in a car spinning out on an icy road, I would want a climber at the wheel.
Beside the intense experience of Being realized at peak moments on challenging climbs, the whole immersion in nature soaks us in peace and beauty.
Instead of just walking over the ground, our feet insulated with shoes, we embrace nature with our bare hands, with our whole bodies. By learning to use our body in concert to accomplish improbable moves, we reclaim our natural state of physical wholeness. An unconscious attitude that our arms are accessories for manipulating phones and faxes is replaced by a comfortable and intuitive sense of our physical totality.
When we go climbing, we return to a world undomesticated by artificial routines and pretensions. Most of us get into the habit of sleepily taking our world for granted. Climbing interrupts our usual world. Trees look different from hundreds of feet up. The whole landscape unfolds from a higher vantage point. The change in perspective allows us to have a different view on our lives as well.
When I soloed Zodiac, my second grade VI, in 1982, I was immersed in a week of solitary concentration in the vertical environment. 300 feet from the top I was ravaged by an intense storm that rained and snowed on me until things looked quite grim. Between breaks in the storm, I crept up to the summit and was redeemed! After a week without walking, and without many of the everyday experiences that I took for granted, everything seemed new again. Plants and trees seemed to explode with life. When I removed the rack and walked around unroped, I felt like an astronaut romping in the reduced gravity of the moon! The friends who came to help me carry gear down were magical beings. My heart swelled from feelings of brotherhood. When we reached the car, I felt like we were driving a million miles an hour. I can't even describe the hot food and cold beer. I enjoyed a refreshed experience of everything.
You might find yourself in different ways than I have. Your perspective on the blessings of climbing will be different. I just hope that you look within yourself and find out more about what climbing means to you; what it teaches you. Don't let anyone tell you what climbing "should" be for you! Own it yourself! Maybe you'll find that climbing helps you offer a better person to your whole world. The danger of domestication threatens you and your family. They won't be any happier in a sleepy daily routine either. They may have to find themselves in their own way too, but you can be the example. Take the freedom, fearlessness, and joy from your world of climbing and pass it on.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2008 - 10:03pm PT
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I was just taking a dump and thought of this old thread.
So instead of "bump"
It's
"dump"
;-)
Karl
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Oct 24, 2008 - 12:24am PT
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I really do not fear death anymore. I would not like to suffer say cancer, I would like it to be quick when the Grim Reaper comes for me. Next week or in 40 more years, I care not.
Juan
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 24, 2008 - 01:32am PT
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hey there... say, very interesing variety of posts piling-up here...
fear not, though, there is plenty of room for more...
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 24, 2008 - 03:05am PT
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"unreasoned fear is the master intellectual fraud practiced upon the evolving mortal soul."
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Oct 24, 2008 - 09:03am PT
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I read a study (sorry years ago, can not reference), saying we are really only born with two fears.
Heights and loud noises.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2009 - 01:42am PT
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Pate dug up a link to this old thread and I thought it was a good topic that didn't quite take off.
So read the OP and post up!
Peace
Karl
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truclimber
Trad climber
Nevada
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Fears, Hmmm
This is quite the topic, Throughout my life there has been many things I have been afraid of. Nightmares for one, seem to be especially frightening. Usually some sort of ax murdering santa clause and or clown. Yikes.
In life however, other things tend to take the premise of fear. Such as losing a loved one. Or the state of being alone. These things tend end up in the category of Fear of the Unknown.
I don't know why, I think more than anything fear is when you let your emotions get the best of you. Heart cooks brain sort of thing.
Anyway, Thanks Karl, this thread has given me a chance to reflect my thoughts. and is much appreciated. sorry for any gramatical errors its been a while since I have written anything at all.
Peace
B
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MH2
climber
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That Pate is everywhere. Good bump, good OP, good posts.
My biggest abstract fear has been losing one of our kids, especially if there was suffering on their part. After all, we brought them into the world. So far it has treated them pretty well, hence the abstract or hypothetical cast to that fear.
Another interesting fear, as spoken of above, is fear in dreams. When younger I would sometimes be pursued by a villain who always kept coming at me. No matter what defense I used he had a counter for it. Eventually I realized that he could outthink me because he was me.
And it would be particularly horrible to cause another's death because of negligence or inattention on your part. An Uncle once struck and killed a woman with his car. It was during a snowstorm and visibility was awful, but he never could forgive himself.
I don't have any insight into the root cause of those fears, and the lasting intensity of the grief that follows losing a child has been noted as difficult to account for as a response that natural selection would favor.
I used to fear heights but now I just fear falling from them.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2010 - 12:44pm PT
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I thought I'd bump this cause there's way more to talk about on this subject but we're probably afraid to go there.
Peace
Karl
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Evel
Trad climber
Marijuana capital of the US
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Apr 16, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
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Fear is indeed an interesting topic. To claim to live without it is probably BS. I try to go with an old adage from the USMC. Dig, "Courage is being afraid, and saddling up anyway." So that's my take.
still plenty of fear out there, though. Another saying I've long stood by is that if you're not just a little scared up there, I don't want you anywhere near me! (Fear manifesting itself as respect?)
That's my 2
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