The fashionable Ray Jardine on Separate Reality

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martygarrison

Trad climber

Modesto

Apr 28, 2008 - 05:56pm PT

I was climbing the nose with Lars Holbeck when we ran across Ray and his rope lacky on the day he chisled. He recognized both of us and was so proud and said "Lars check this out!". Lars and I were just quiet but it was so clear he had just used a hammer. I must admit, I ran into Ray at swan slab early in my career a few years earlier and had a great day climbing cracks with him. WB, I am curious about the Phoenix and Cringe comments. I never noticed anything on the Cringe, and Phoenix was always way too hard for me, but were there rumors of alterations on those routes as well?

eeyonkee

Trad climber

Golden, CO

Apr 28, 2008 - 06:41pm PT

We enjoy reading heroic tales from all the way back to ancient Greece. But what do those tales make us want to do? Go out and be heroes, of course. Hard to convince yourself you are that when the routes are all bolted up and spaced six inches apart. We need to leave stories for people. Perhaps more importantly, we also need to leave them room.

I've only gone this far in the thread, but this bit from JStan is just about the best paragraph I've ever read on Supertopo.

--Edit. Just occurred to me that 2nd place probably belongs to some paragraph in Peter Haan's account of doing Basket Case.

martygarrison

Trad climber

Modesto

Apr 30, 2008 - 10:51pm PT

bump. I am still waiting on the clarification of the comment from Werner, "Take a good look at "Phoenix" and the "Cringe". What is the story here?

ß Î Ø T Ç H

climber

the ground up

Jan 13, 2009 - 02:03pm PT

Was the (FFA of) West Face chipped also ?

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Jan 13, 2009 - 03:47pm PT

I don't think so. I did it right after Ray and didn't notice anything. I've never heard of anything chipped on it.

drljefe

climber

Toostoned, AZ

Jan 13, 2009 - 06:41pm PT

Bumped, for studly to study

drljefe

climber

Toostoned, AZ

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:00am PT

Amazing thread(s)-had this shirt since '87

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:33am PT

ah! the legendary tee-shirt appears!!

drljefe

climber

Toostoned, AZ

Jan 14, 2009 - 11:56am PT

Ed- I'm sure you've gotten your share of Garcia comparisons over the years, but this one's just uncanny! The shoes even look like those Acopas I see you wearing.

That series of skelly pics is really cool.

'87 was the year I developed my love for the Dead and climbing,
this has always been my favorite shirt.

richross

Trad climber

gunks,ny

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:35pm PT

F'ueco

Boulder climber

San Jose, CA

Jan 14, 2009 - 12:58pm PT

Dang, wish I had seen this thread a long time ago...

What Jardine did to the Nose was immoral and just plain stupid. I seem to recall that his aim was to create a 5.11 route for the masses on El Cap (I might be wrong on the details, since this was form a magazine article years ago).

Surely, the mass-marketing of 'Friends' has saved plenty of cracks from getting pinned out? I realize that nuts, hexes, tricams and such were well established by the time Friends came around, but SLCDs do make protecting parallel cracks much easier.

As for the lightweight hiking. Ray in no way invented this. Plenty of us were out there with 10-pound packs before ever even hearing of Ray Jardine. What he did was to provide a reference for those who were already established, and a guide for those new to that method of hiking. When 'The PCT Hiker's Handbook' first came around, it quickly became my favorite book. I even contributed a small piece for the 2nd edition of his book (on my big pet peeve, which is horses being allowed in wilderness areas).

Fashion sense? Who needs that? Were white painters pants ever high fashion outside of the climbing community?

burp

Trad climber

Salt Lake City

Jan 14, 2009 - 06:29pm PT

I miss Jrat!

burp

drljefe

climber

Toostoned, AZ

Jan 14, 2009 - 07:36pm PT

I miss JGar!

Largo

Sport climber

Venice, Ca

Jan 14, 2009 - 08:09pm PT

The West Face of El Cap is not chipped (at least not where you might expect some chipping, on the first two face pitches), but there are pin scars in the arch, which where there in the 70s. The face climbing crux is an inobvious step down on the first pitch - have done that pitch twice - first time with Dale B. and later with Dwight Brooks - and neither Dale, Dwight or I noticed any doctored holds. Either way, this is a run up (like 11b) compared to the Nose and the others.

Martygarrison wrote: "Phoenix was always way too hard for me, but were there rumors of alterations on those routes (Cringe) as well?"

Originally, the Cringe had dirt and bushes in it but I'm not sure of any chipping when Ray cleaned it. If there is it'd have to be on the thin bit down low as all the rest is thin to wide mitts. The original controversy on the Cringe was breaking down the enduro pitch with sling belays in the middle - sort of strange, really, since IMO, Ray had done way harder climbing on Hang Dog Flyer and several other lines. Nothing harder than 10d on the Cringe, it's just a very long gasser. I remember doing this with Lynn Hill, who pulled perfect wide hands in the thin section before it curves left. She made it look like Double Cross out at Josh. I wasn't in good shape and thought my arms were going to explode at the end.

The bottom corner of Phoenix is basically a Bugaboo crack with a few tip locks pinned out. Once you stem and tip lock up a few body lengths, it opens up to fingers then jags right and then back up on bleak rattlers. Too bad Phoenix doesn't start off the ground, at a point ten or so feet before it traverses right. It'd be a classic 5.12 if so. The bottom, doctored part is shitty, and it gasses you for the upper crack because there's no good rest anywhere.

Sort of a trip to recall all this stuff. BTW, I was up on Phoenix with that uber-honed Pom, Ron Fawcett (we had to go back twice) and after our first attempt I was so dehydrated I drank from a tiny crik and got horrendously sick that night, up chucking for hours.

JL