Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
|
May 29, 2007 - 12:35pm PT
|
hey chris,
you bruised the delicate flower of my feelings so many times it left me scarred for life.
but if you're serious about making amends, send me a c-note and some percs and we'll call it good.
your buddy,
the motherf*#king american legend
|
|
snyd
Boulder climber
Asheville, NC
|
|
|
May 29, 2007 - 12:47pm PT
|
It's in the mail f*#kstick.
|
|
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
|
May 29, 2007 - 01:21pm PT
|
i can feel the love.....
|
|
burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
|
|
|
May 29, 2007 - 04:02pm PT
|
Jello wrote: "I would never argue that Ray didn't do an excellent job of taking the idea and running with it. Seems to me the more honorable thing for him to have done would have been to develop the concept in conjunction with Lowe Alpine Systems, and we could have all been happy. As it is, I'm left with negative feelings about Ray, and I wish I didn't have those."
This along with the pic of the Lowe cam above clarifies it all for me.
Jello, just curious ... how far along was the development of the Lowe cam when the Friend went commercial? Seems like there would have been a number of years for development.
Unfortunate that there wasn't a corroborative effort. So many great items we take for granted now, originally came from the Lowes. Hopefully the Lowes have been able to profit adequately from some of these innovations.
burp
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
|
May 30, 2007 - 12:18am PT
|
Sorry about my blocks of type. I just start typing. Are they really hard to read? One must simply be able to focus their eyes, I would think, but if you've had a little wine or something the eyes might jump up and down a bit and not be able to stay on track. Forgive me.
Jeff, I just realized you and I get to be guest speakers in a couple weeks at the big regional (or is it national?) gathering of rescue people, sheriffs and all, over your way. It will be good to see you there.
Pat
|
|
Jello
Social climber
No Ut
|
|
|
May 31, 2007 - 01:54am PT
|
Yeah, Pat, I'll see you in a few weeks. Do you need a place to stay?
Burp. As I remember it, Greg and Mike showed Ray various versions of the Crack Jumar and passive and spring-loaded cams. My point, though, is Ray agreed to a non-disclosure, non-compete agreement before being shown these concepts. That's why eventually, when Mark Vallance learned the whole story, a settlement was forthcoming.
On another note, Ray's later patent depended on Greg's constant-angle cam concept and referenced it. That concept is what allows cams to work so well, spring-loaded or passive. In essence the Jardine patent covers the trigger release which was foreshadowed by the cable retraction on Greg's 1967 crack jumar. All successful camming nuts are derivative of that concept. Opposing cam-lobes of various configurations were fully obvious and referenced in Greg's 1973 patent application, as well.
The 1973 Lowe spring-cams and split cams were so revolutionary and unacceptable to the mind-set of the day, that not many were sold. So work shifted to passive cams (Tri-Cams), as that seemed a safer commercial path. Jardine proved that to be wrong, and the rest (actually all of this) is history.
Incidentally, Greg drew the link-cam concept over two decades ago, so it's not as though he's been left behind in the concept he originated. Second and third generation Tri-Cams and "Fan Cams" are also decades-old projects, that await financial support for development.
-Cam-crackedJello
|
|
Oli
Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
|
|
|
May 31, 2007 - 02:32am PT
|
Jeff, Roy West has me at his house, but it would be good to see you somewhere, maybe during the day or something.
Here's a little something I scribbled one day, that I came across. It's possible it applies, maybe...
Scattered rocks across a meadow bear resemblance to a city's ruin, a kingdom once engaged in robust trade, the politics of evil, rich and powerful, incestuous relationships that went the way of every world, leaving remnants of their structures, frameworks, skeletons of passageways, the shapes of scaffoldings, supports of houses, what remains of points of view. In stones of slopes the mouths and eyes of skulls are filled with bats and moths, the shock of their extinction, of its quickness, of their un-extraordinary passing. Faces petrified and stupefied. Their stillness calls to you a little bit to follow, life a time abandons in the interest of aloneness.
Afternoon is not responsible for anything but beauty, hair-like grasses blowing, poised and flowing, waves, like many currents running softly. Things the trees have lost and things they've left now call to one another, faint, surviving testimonies ululant and liminal. The silence echoes limb to limb.
Pat
|
|
Jello
Social climber
No Ut
|
|
|
May 31, 2007 - 02:44am PT
|
Beautiful, Pat. You are indeed a good writer. That passage reminds me a little of Italo Calvino in INVISIBLE CITIES, a story where Marco Polo brings back to the Emperor stories of his travels and adventures. Perhaps when we visit a new boulderfield, it's an invisible city, never the same to two people. When we report back to the Emperor, he might not recognise that in fact we're describing the same place.
See you soon.
-Jeff
|
|
burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
|
|
|
May 31, 2007 - 04:41pm PT
|
Jello,
Thanks for the reply. Alot of good details there on the types of cams you folks were producing.
I definately get your point on the non-compete.
Curious about ... (I'll start a more appropriate post to the subject - "Lowe's Inventiveness" {sp?})...
Enjoy!
burp
|
|
steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
|
|
|
May 31, 2007 - 04:53pm PT
|
Nice prose above Pat... now we just need one of the gurus (Watusi or Raydog) to turn it into a piece of visual art...
|
|
Jello
Social climber
No Ut
|
|
Fatty, I think you probably are referring to the Spring-cam, which only had one cam lobe and one stem and never should have been introduced to the market. Split Cams, with two lobes and two stems, are actually more stable and less prone to walking than any four cam units.
Ask Piton Ron.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 10, 2007 - 12:20am PT
|
[url="http://www.rayjardine.com/adventures/chronologies.shtml" target="new"]Ray's latests hits...[/url]
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Jun 10, 2007 - 12:34pm PT
|
Invisible Cities is a gem Jello. Spreads your mind out nicely.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2008 - 12:28pm PT
|
This thread has some discussion and even some players who could slide right into the current SF Half Dome thread.
Amazing thread.
Bump for incredible coolness!
|
|
Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2008 - 04:51pm PT
|
I thought the SFHD thread was all about 'How they got the rope down there' and numerology. You mean it is really about Doug's and Sean's fashion sense?
Buzz
|
|
martygarrison
Trad climber
Modesto
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2008 - 05:56pm PT
|
I was climbing the nose with Lars Holbeck when we ran across Ray and his rope lacky on the day he chisled. He recognized both of us and was so proud and said "Lars check this out!". Lars and I were just quiet but it was so clear he had just used a hammer. I must admit, I ran into Ray at swan slab early in my career a few years earlier and had a great day climbing cracks with him. WB, I am curious about the Phoenix and Cringe comments. I never noticed anything on the Cringe, and Phoenix was always way too hard for me, but were there rumors of alterations on those routes as well?
|
|
eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2008 - 06:41pm PT
|
We enjoy reading heroic tales from all the way back to ancient Greece. But what do those tales make us want to do? Go out and be heroes, of course. Hard to convince yourself you are that when the routes are all bolted up and spaced six inches apart. We need to leave stories for people. Perhaps more importantly, we also need to leave them room.
 I've only gone this far in the thread, but this bit from JStan is just about the best paragraph I've ever read on Supertopo.
--Edit. Just occurred to me that 2nd place probably belongs to some paragraph in Peter Haan's account of doing Basket Case.
|
|
martygarrison
Trad climber
Modesto
|
|
|
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:51pm PT
|
bump. I am still waiting on the clarification of the comment from Werner, "Take a good look at "Phoenix" and the "Cringe". What is the story here?
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
climber
the ground up
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2009 - 02:03pm PT
|
Was the (FFA of) West Face chipped also ?
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2009 - 03:47pm PT
|
I don't think so. I did it right after Ray and didn't notice anything. I've never heard of anything chipped on it.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!