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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 16, 2007 - 05:24pm PT
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i dunno why, but for some reason i thought i remebered seeing chainsaws discussed on the taco at some point in time, so i figured it would be worth asking for some advice.
so on our last major mountain bike trailbuilding project we lugged out 14 18v dewalt batteries and STILL ended up resorting to the bowsaw for several cuts.
no more amature hour for me. i want to bring some horsepower.
i've never bought or owned a chainsaw, my experience with them is strickly limited to whatever my dad happened to have in the garage, which was probobly whatever happened to be on sale at sears sometime in the last 20 years.
i don't need to cut anything large diamter, this is pretty much limited to cutting up 10" dia or less deadfall logs for building ladder bridges and jumps.
so, in order of importance: reliable, lightweight, powerfull, good gas milliage, reasonable price.
any recomendations?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 16, 2007 - 05:29pm PT
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If possible, get some training in how to safely use a chain saw. They're dangerous puppies. Training may also provide enough experience and knowledge to allow you to decide which saw is the best for your purposes.
Quite a lot of safety and protective equipment may be required in addition to the saw.
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2007 - 05:32pm PT
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thanks, i checked all of the local universities and none of them offer a course in chainsaw operation. i guess i'll just have to wing it on my own.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 16, 2007 - 05:35pm PT
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Call local parks departments, or tree services, and find out what they do for training. Perhaps a community college or technical school may have something, or even night school.
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 16, 2007 - 05:36pm PT
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only one worth buying....A Stihl.
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lamadera
Trad climber
New Mexico
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May 16, 2007 - 05:38pm PT
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Stihl,Husquavarna or Echo. Don't buy a Homelite from Home Depot, you will regret it. Forget the training, fire that thing up and cut some wood.
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2007 - 05:45pm PT
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any reason i should choose an echo or a husqvarna over a stihl?
i ask becouse i've heard husqvarnas are very good, but i don't know of a local retailer where i could get one. stihls are available anywhere. echo i've never heard of.
any good min. horsepower recomendations? i want it to be light, and the material i intend to cut should be easier, but i'd rather not have to fight it.
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spyork
Social climber
Land of Green Stretchy People
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May 16, 2007 - 05:47pm PT
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2 man whipsaw. If you're not burly now you will be...
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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May 16, 2007 - 05:47pm PT
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Everyone knows that chainsaws aren't very forgiving to novice mistakes.
Rent a gas chainsaw with a 15-20' bar from home depot and start cutting fire wood at home.
Look on the internet for basic safety rules/operation.
Use eye protection and gloves.
If you plan on operating a chainsaw in the woods, far from emergency help, you should be experienced at it and adept at first aid as well.
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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May 16, 2007 - 05:49pm PT
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Hey Euro,
Stihl is the way to go for sure. There are some other good ones out there Huskivarna, for example, but you can find Stihl parts and service centers anywhere. I build custom homes in N Mich, and have done 4 full scribe homes in the last 10 years. My guys go to saw is always the Pro 260 for a gas saw. That may be a bit much for what you are looking for but at 11 pounds it is a work horse. Costly though.
I'd send customer support at Stihl a email and see what they recommend for your use.
Get the plastic case, extra chain, a good saw tool, and a rat tail file. Nothing worse than trying to cut with a dull chain.
Just my 2cents
Prod
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 16, 2007 - 05:52pm PT
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Spend the time learning to properly sharpen a a chain and it will last a very long time...as long as you don't pull a n00b and rock it.
Ran an 046 with for years as a Hotshot.Never let me down...under the worst conditions all the time. But also being cleaned and maintained like a weapon.
Remember...a clean saw is a happy saw.
As in life...ALWAYS know where the tip is gentlemen.
EDIT: Kevlar chaps are good for piece of mind...but the first thing they show you on a shot crew, is a 2x4 wrapped in chaps...rev that Stihl up, and it will go through them in a hurry. No joke. Of course if you have your finger off the throttle...it may bind in time to save you some meat.
If your saw is properly tuned and lubed...you should never need to lean on cut...should pull itself through the cut real sweet like. cut smart. cut safe.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 16, 2007 - 05:54pm PT
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Kevlar chaps..... GREAT for chainsaw use. My step brother hit those chaps so many damn times! I only did once, after 20 hrs of chainsaw work in 2 days. I was exhausted and just not paying attention. SOOO glad I had the chaps!
My impression back when I was young and doing work for my dad was that it's important to keep the blade sharp if you want to have an easy time of it. We would sharpen the blades at least once a day on a long day and suddenly it was like butter....
Josh
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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May 16, 2007 - 05:57pm PT
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Here's my two cents: Husqies and Stihls are the only way to go. They will cost you more but will save you SO much time because they always start and run. As between the two, it's sort of like a Chevy/Ford thing where people feel strongly one way or another. I've run both brands and both have their minor ups and downs. I have never heard of a chainsaw class outside of the work place. So: always hold the saw with both hands with your thumb wrapped around the top bar; always cut with the saw fully reved up; don't lean directly over the saw (so that if it kicks back it does not fly into your face); keep the chain sharp- if you touch dirt or anything else that dulls the chain, stop what you are doing and sharpen or change it; do not touch anything with the tip; wear eye and ear protection. Occasional cutting of wood up to 10" should not require more than a light to medium duty saw.
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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May 16, 2007 - 05:59pm PT
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Husqvarna 51. Owned that for about 10 years now. Use it several times / year. Wooded lots. Lots of dead stuff on the ground or standing.
Fast, lightweight, easy to start and maintain.
Been through at least 3 chains.
One year we had a pile of wood almost the height of a minivan by 150 feet long.
Not sure what the current corresponding model is, but you can't go wrong with this. Only one I have ever owned. Not a professional.
Learn how to use it. Main thing is you do not want the wood to pinch closed on it. That means sometimes you will cut from above, sometimes below on horizontal stuff. Works best if you have someone to help position / move, etc. Plus you want somebody else around for safety. Keep it sharp. Having spare chains makes this easier. Vertical stuff, you really need to think about how/where to drop it - wind, obstructions, etc.
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lamadera
Trad climber
New Mexico
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May 16, 2007 - 06:01pm PT
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Stihl is a fine saw. Get a 45-50 cc, 18-20 inch bar, and it should weigh around 10 pounds. You will be able to cut most anything within reason.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 16, 2007 - 06:06pm PT
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You'll also need to learn the following song.
The Lumberjack Song (Monty Python's Flying Circus)
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
I sleep all night. I work all day.
Mounties : He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
I cut down trees. I eat my lunch.
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.
Mounties: He cuts down trees. He eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he goes shopping
And has buttered scones for tea.
Chorus : He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
I cut down trees. I skip and jump.
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars.
Mounties : He cuts down trees. He skips and jumps.
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around in bars?!
Chorus : He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
I cut down trees. I wear high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie,
Just like my dear Papa
Mounties : He cuts down trees. He wears high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra?!
Chorus : He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
Yes, He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 16, 2007 - 06:14pm PT
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ZAllen
Social climber
the dirty south
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May 16, 2007 - 06:40pm PT
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New a guy who didn't heed the advice of the third picture in Babar's post. Now we call him zipperlip.
I use stihl and a face shield.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 16, 2007 - 06:47pm PT
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I'm a Husky guy, too. I was a professional logger for a few summers and ran a Jonsered 910E and I never, ever had to wait for the saw. Husky bought Jonsared and it's hard to find any Jonsared parts so go Husky. I bought a 345 e last fall for a firewood saw. It's light, it always starts and it cuts fast. I got mine for arond $300 with a whole bunch of accessories like extra bar, 3 chains, lots of oil, a case and a t-shirt. go to www.northerntool.com
Saw Safe,
Mal
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Kartch
climber
belgrade, mt
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May 16, 2007 - 07:02pm PT
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Dang feelio you were a Bonneville Shot. Did Mark Atwood ever roll w/you. He was my engine boss in Cedar. Did a few tours w/ the Cedar shots myself. They were the funnest fires to work, with the best people but it was hard with the wife.
Cheers.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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May 16, 2007 - 07:05pm PT
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i have a little husquvarna. it is one sweet puppy. it dont take too much training just common sense...
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 16, 2007 - 07:09pm PT
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I know Atwood. Good hand, solid guy. Worked with him on an engine in Skull Valley.
yeah...shot work is tough on the relationships.....and the knees.
"see ya in October Honey!"
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jstan
climber
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May 16, 2007 - 07:28pm PT
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At ten inch you don't hardly need no saw. Pruning sheers and a double bit ought to about do it. You fire up a Husky and the landowner will be on you toot sweet.
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Jude Bischoff
Ice climber
Palm Springs
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May 16, 2007 - 07:37pm PT
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I've had the same Stihl for 20 years and it still starts on the second pull and cuts like a champ. I replaced the bar and chain every firewood season. Now I heat with gas. Fire up the thermostat and open a Sierra Nevada.
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atchafalaya
climber
California
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May 16, 2007 - 09:13pm PT
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ran stihls and huskys for two summers in Oregon. The stihl was my favorite. Ditto on chaps and keeping the chain sharp.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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May 16, 2007 - 09:17pm PT
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Stihl or Husqy. I've got one of each. Both great.
When I was 17, I cut firewood after work to make extra money. For some reason the saws seem a lot heavier now. I big wall pirate should have no trouble using the saw safely. Memorize the manual. Wear your safety gear. Dust mask, glasses and, yes, include the ear protection. I don't hear as well as I used to.
Zander
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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May 16, 2007 - 09:39pm PT
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If you're not cutting anything over 10", and especially if you're not felling upright trees that thick, the next to smallest stihl is all the saw you need. Quoth the eldest daughter at the stihl dealer that my family has been going to for 4 generations: "That little 'un is just for fruit trees, but that next 'uns got enough shiit in its britches to get the job done." Keep in mind that the big boys burn more gas, which is a PITA to carry back in to something like a trail project.
OTOH, we bought a larger stihl a while back, and they've gone to a windup spring starting system that is probably the most dangerous feature I've ever seen on anything mechanical (and I'm the guy who ran himself over with a tractor because of a poorly designed clutch linkage, and took his first aid fall onto a recall-era blue alien). You pull the cord, that winds the spring, and that turns over the motor. The only problem is that this Rube Goldberg process introduces a lag, so that it starts about a second after you pull the cord, which is just enough time to do something dumb. Great for weedeaters, which is what I think it was designed for, but supremely dangerous for a saw IMHO. You kind of train yourself around it, but it's still dangerous as hell unless you're a good boy scout and start it flat on the ground every single time. It does start a little easier, which I appreciate, having fought some old McCulloughs that had you about half worked and buzzing on ether fumes before they cranked. However, I wouldn't buy one of these things again, especially if a bunch of different people that all think they know how to use a saw are going to be using it. Not sure how far down the product line this charming little "feature" goes, it may only be for the bigger ones.
Be careful out there, as my uncle told me a long time ago, every man in his life will do one stupid thing with a chainsaw, and if you live through that you will always respect them. The trick is to put yourself in that mindset without going through a close call. Also, any old logger will tell you it's not the log you see that kills you; awareness of your surroundings while you work is as important if not more so than just being safe with the saw.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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May 16, 2007 - 09:59pm PT
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Get a husky and don't look back.
I've totaly heated our house with wood for 35 years now and sold many, many loads of wood to boot. 20 of those year with a husky. Stihls are heavy, cumbersome, and slow cutters.
Disclosure edit:
Anything can be dangerous, try to be 10% smarter than what your working with.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 16, 2007 - 10:05pm PT
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I have a Stihl, got it when I lived in the woods of western Massachussetts. Great saw, still use it after about 20 years... Debbie hauls it off for opening day at a biological preserve she sits on the board of, she doesn't use it, but it is attracts all the guys who line up to use it.
Be careful out there, those things cut everything really well, and body parts are no problem!
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WBraun
climber
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May 16, 2007 - 11:06pm PT
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Are you guys sure you know how to use a chain saw?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 16, 2007 - 11:34pm PT
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I ran a tree crew for awhile and also used both Stihls and Huskies. I found the Huskies leaked as well. I personally preferred the Stihls. For home use I've had an 046 forever and it runs as fine today as the day I bought it.
Keeping your blade sharp and lubed is THE WORD - the quickest and easiest way to have a bad experience with a chainsaw is to run them dull. Get the Stihl helmet with a face screen and ear protectors or one similar. If you don't get leg protection be sure you're never wearing pants that fit tight to your leg - if you catch pant fabric you need to be able to get it away from your leg in an instant, tight jeans will dig in instead. Also, always be aware of the plane of the blade and anytime any part of your body intersects that plane.
Try some literature along these lines if you've never used one...
Werner, it's got to be ugly when that thing kicks...
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MisterE
Social climber
Across town from Easy Street
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May 17, 2007 - 01:09am PT
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Husky or Stihl are the best. The chaps are a good call. Save your clothing and protect your legs. Also, a pair of heavy duty boots and gloves are key.
Learn how to use the file that comes with your chainsaw, it will make your life easier and safer with regular application.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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May 17, 2007 - 01:40am PT
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Feelio nailed it, watch the tip, the saw cannot kickback if you keep the rounded part of the tip out of cutting contact with everything.
I'd take an 044 over any saw in the world, including an 046. Battle tested time and time again.
Also, the only real Shot Crews come from Region Six.
But you all already knew that!
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2007 - 09:12am PT
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damn i just new i'd get some good advise in this place! thanks guys and keep it comming. i'm pretty busy over the next two weeks, so i have a bit of time for research/shopping before i get onto the next project.
i hate being an uninformed consumer, yall are a fantastic help!
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ralph_teh_klimber
climber
ralph town
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May 17, 2007 - 11:39am PT
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There is only one true chainsaw manufacture and that is Stihl. Tho for your recreational usage I would not buy one, they are the industry standard and have been for almost 100 years.
Find a small Husquavarna limbing saw, weighs about 14lbs and will cut anything you need to on your bike trails.
Tho i think for being stuck in the midwest go with the cheapeast saw you can find. All 2strokes work on the same principle so maintenance will be routine no matter who you buy from. Durability is your issue and with less the prolly 20 hrs a year usage you could justify the homelite from home depot.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 17, 2007 - 11:52am PT
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I been cutting and heating 100% with wood for 35yrs. I run a husky 350. good saw. If you buy new the husky manuel is verey informative. My Gf has a husky 36 that is light but still pleanty of saw for what you have in mind
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 17, 2007 - 12:14pm PT
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Yo Blow!
No doubt Region six is gorgeous country, and has all the fun "big" cuts..but until you've seen a Great Basin desert fire running at 50+ MPH plus across the sage foothills..babay...ya ain't lived! Besides...hiding in the woods all day is light duty...106 in the crucible with no shade, is where real shotcrews line out!
Cheers and here's to all the shot crews...tough work, no matter the region!
Was on 30-Mile after the burn over when they ordered the world...gorgeous place...sad and avoidable accident.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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May 17, 2007 - 12:19pm PT
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Feelio, 30 mile is less than 40 miles as the crow fly's from where I grew up. Tragedy indeed. I guess the Okanogan Type 1 team decided not to learn from my near miss in '98 that led to me getting out of the game. When the sh#t hits the fan, and everyone is too busy covering there ass to answer teh really hard questions, well f*#k, I can kill myself quite easily and funner.
I've been sequestered in Region 4 hell (Callyeenee, Nevada anyone?) and props to that, all fire is fun, as is poking sh#t at other shot crews.
Stay safe!
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 17, 2007 - 12:31pm PT
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Yup...the dick swinging match of Shot world is silly...never understood that shite..
but pride goes a long way in that job. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to get through the day...(a helmet full of smut always helped my summers along :-)
One of the best flights I ever took in my years of firework, was off our spike on 30-mile...down the Cascades to Twisp. Gorgeous country. The good looking and smelling female pilot was a bonus...after 14 days in the woods with the sausage patrol!
Region 6 is crazy though..was on a fire once in late July where it was raining/snowing...everything was soaked...and sh#t was on fire! WTF? had to scratch my head on that one.
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quartziteflight
climber
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May 17, 2007 - 02:08pm PT
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Honestly you probably don't even need a chain saw. 10" downed tree's especially if they're a little green, can be cut quickly with a sharp axe. I prefer a double bladed axe myself.
The work you're doing is do light you sure as hell don't need a a high end chainsaw. High end saws rock, but honestly a poulan would be fine.
They are really dangerous also. Wear ear plugs
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 17, 2007 - 02:11pm PT
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you know why the call then Poulan's right?
"cause you Poulanit, and Poulanit, and Poulanit...." :-)
sorry, couldn't resist.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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May 17, 2007 - 02:12pm PT
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Whatever you gotta tell yourself to get through the day...(a helmet full of smut always helped my summers along :-)
It's amazing how much weed you can stuff inside your file shelter pouch and have it not stink.
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flamer
Trad climber
denver
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May 17, 2007 - 03:10pm PT
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Yup...the dick swinging match of Shot world is silly...
Never even heard of bonneville IHC....must be one of those new crews they hired after 2000....I heard they were all punters anyway!! J/K!
Diamond Mtn. IHC 1996. Alpine IHC 1997-98.
Ass's and elbows!!!
Hey blow run into any Gleason's lately?
josh
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quartziteflight
climber
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May 17, 2007 - 05:02pm PT
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Felio,
For the type of work you do, the poulan wouldn't probably work all that well. For most folks it's fine and alot less expensive. 150$ vs 400$+. It's kind of like the guy who has the 6000$ zero turning radius 25 hp industrial lawn mower for his acre yard. It's just overkill or overcompensation...:-)
cheers
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 17, 2007 - 05:21pm PT
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I agree that a good axe in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing would suffice for trail clearing. But if there is one tool you should never go cheap on it's a chainsaw. Buy a Stihl or a Husky - otherwise just rent one.
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 17, 2007 - 05:27pm PT
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Flamer...you are dead on the money..Bonneville received Type 1 status in 2001.
Quartz...you are also right. I was just playin around.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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May 17, 2007 - 05:29pm PT
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I worked on hotshot crew on the Tonto (in AZ)- fought raging grass and brush fires outside of Phoenix in the hot July sun. From the comfort of my office, and having since fully acclimatized to the cool Norcal climate, I can't imagine how I didn't die from heat stroke.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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May 17, 2007 - 05:33pm PT
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If you are really interested in chainsaw operation, feel free to email me direct with your questions. I feel confident I know more about chainsaws than anyone on this site.
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jstan
climber
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May 17, 2007 - 05:40pm PT
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Anyone else on this site.....
OK A. C. One of you take him out.
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 17, 2007 - 05:52pm PT
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big claim...but hey, whatever makes you feel good.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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May 17, 2007 - 05:54pm PT
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A. Crowley...."what ever you are good at, someone will be better."
Sorry, I am better.
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jstan
climber
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May 17, 2007 - 05:59pm PT
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Supertopo Rule#2:
All seconds shall be selected by Chris.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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May 17, 2007 - 06:21pm PT
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Nope..........but I have been running saws all my life. And I know that I am better with a saw in a tree, at a wood pile, and sh#t..........I just am good enough to "show off." Flipping a running saw in one hand....
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 17, 2007 - 06:29pm PT
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now that's smart cutting!
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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May 17, 2007 - 06:32pm PT
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Nope...not one of those "macho types." But I can run a saw better than anyone on this site, I am confident with that....
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 17, 2007 - 06:38pm PT
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yeah...we got that part.
Apocalypsenow=Love child of D.Douglas Dent and Paul Bunyun.
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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May 17, 2007 - 06:41pm PT
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I took down a coastal redwood, not sure...................but think it was a "third year" growth.
and yourself??????????????
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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May 17, 2007 - 06:42pm PT
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Wait...................
are we comparing "size?"
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 17, 2007 - 06:47pm PT
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Redwood?...sounds like someone's overcompensating.....
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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May 17, 2007 - 06:57pm PT
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Yea...........Crowley..........almost as bad as the "cars."
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 17, 2007 - 08:22pm PT
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The tree crew I ran had a city contract to remove large dying and lightning-struck trees in downtown Chicago. We took down large deciduous trees with 48"+ diameter trunks several times a week. None of the limb or trunk sections of the trees we took down could be dropped. In fact, nothing could be dropped ever. Every piece of the tree had to lined down and the lower trunk sections craned down. We used a 2" bull rope to our claw semi for our high, main lower line and a 1.5" bull rope to a 1 ton IH pickup for our steering line. You wouldn't believe some of clusterf*#ks of buildings, wires, signs, and cars we brought trees down in. It was some of the best times and most complex problems I've ever experienced.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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May 17, 2007 - 08:23pm PT
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flamer, saw Phil, Sandy, Jon and Dan + little Ava last month when I went to Tonasket.
Diamond Mtn eh? Know Mike Brey? Isn't that one of those muckity muck Shot Crews where GS-7's learn what work is all about for a season and never come back? Ala Redding and that one in North Carolina?
Crowley, your chainsaw statement illustrates your total toolbagness...how many times you taken the cylinder apart and done a complete rebuild from the ground up? How many times you dropped a flaming cat faced 54" ponderosa snag double cutting it with a 36" bar and only having a 1/2" of leeway in your holding wood? At night, when you can't see the top except for the flaming bits?
How good at you at cutting brush in mountain mahogany and manzanita when it's 100F?
FWIW, I'd bet money that someone on this site knows more than me about saws. Probably multiple someones. But then again I only cut fireline for 9 years and ran the saw cache on a HeliRappell crew for 2. And I only did commercial removals for 3 years and slash and burn "park em out" jobs for another 4 or 5. And cutting firewood since I was 12...
Your posts make me ill...
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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May 17, 2007 - 08:39pm PT
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Nice. Feel free to spray on then. Sorry for the as#@&%e reply.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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May 17, 2007 - 09:27pm PT
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I think I have all you guys beat.
I hiked a couple miles up a trail in Marin from sea-level to approx 1800 feet,
with a puny Poulan pruning saw in my messenger bag, extra gas, and an extra bar in
case I got the main bar stuck. The oak tree on the trail measured 26 inches across,
and it had to go. I fired up the Poulan (the loudest fuçking saw I've ever heard, BTW),
and began cutting with the 14 inch bar. Sure enough, the bar got stuck, so I unbolted
the saw, leaving the stuck bar in place. I then cut with the 12 inch bar until I could free
the stuck one. Two tanks of gas (and about 20 minutes later, LOL) the deed was done.
Now, who is gonna top that?
My nickname at the time was "Chainsaw Dave"...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 17, 2007 - 11:39pm PT
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Just to be clear - I've done some of the more exotically complicated removals one can imagine, but each one was simply an end in itself and I had the luxury of laying around for a couple of hours with a coffee if necessary to come up with a solution. And while there's always an element of thinking on the fly once you're up in a tree - particularly large deciduous trees on a windy day - none of it compares to what you hotshots deal with day in day out. However complex my gigs were, they all pale in comparison to the thinking fast on the fly you have to do, where any given tree is just a heartbeat of thought in an overall effort to contain a fire. My crew had the luxury of multiple semis, instant supplies, on-the-truck sharpeners, cranes, hi-rangers, deli's, coffee shops, and neighborhood bars at lunch and the end of the day. My hat's off to all you hotshots - even with my experience, I can only attempt to imagine the best and worst days you guys have on a line.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
Back in the mix
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May 18, 2007 - 11:40am PT
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only attempt to imagine the best and worst days you guys have on a line.
I'm most proud of changing a SIT report in Hell's Canyon by 125,000 acres.
14 hours straight of burnout, fusees on the line, pen flares (when they were still legal) for a deeper black line and a heli ping ponging napalm balls behind that. Dragged it from the rim to the river over seven miles and capped that f*#ker right off.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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May 18, 2007 - 12:56pm PT
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Big burn outs- Yes!! So much fun. When I worked on the Tonto we would do massive burns on desert fires, pen flares, veri pistols, drip torches, etc. I left the hotshot crew to be a jumper but always missed the big blowing and going fires.
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feelio Babar
Trad climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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May 18, 2007 - 01:09pm PT
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Nothing like getting paid to put fire on the ground! In the desert, we had fires moving so fast...our normal tactic was find a dirt road, and torch that biotch off! Done and done!!
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Kartch
climber
belgrade, mt
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May 18, 2007 - 01:34pm PT
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The best burnout I was involved in was the Snake II by Weezer (sp) ID. Punched about 6-7 miles of line w/4 shot crews down a ridge with thigh high grass, burning off the line. When we finally reached the river it was a nice little cove. Our shot boss told us to grab our lighters and "light'er'up". Fire raced up the hill surrounding our cove, being good shots we all hopped in the river for a good soak to watch the show.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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May 18, 2007 - 02:30pm PT
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Be careful...
My Dad was moving a little too quick. Nothing like a greasy, dirty, chain ripping through your leg, down to the bone. He recovered no problem.
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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May 18, 2007 - 02:36pm PT
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Euroford - sounds like you might want to get a helicopter as an accessory to your chain saw to get the full experience!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 18, 2007 - 03:38pm PT
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Yeah, my comments about not wearing tight pants came from my 'pre-brake' days. I was lucky and got away with just a couple of stitches due to fast reflexes. It was my fault for not checking the chain. All of the chains were supposed to be sharpened overnight and it kept never happening - it was my last day with that particular crew.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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May 18, 2007 - 04:13pm PT
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A couple of us spent a summer in Montana, livin' in the woods, on a tree thinning contract for the Forest Service. Tough work, made worse 'cause my bud underbid the contract so we could barely pay for food, gas and bar tack. Long hours, low pay. Whoo hoo!
I had a Sachs Dolmar (now just Dolmar I think). Nice saw, but, the spindle must have been off center a tad as it blew up twice on me. But, when it ran, it ran well. Chain brake saved my life, to be sure. Thing snapped back so fast and when it was hot out, we, ahem, never wore helmets. Took a few chunks out of my scalp and rang my bell pretty hard, but, didn't cut right through. Blink of an eye.
Wore chaps and shoulda wore steel toed boots. Chaps had cuts all the way through in a couple of spots from buckin' back. Had the saw rotate around once and bite the backside of my leg. Still have the scar.
We had a ton of saws that summer, for some reason, so I got to see some hard use on a variety of stuff. I think we had 8 saws or so, almost all different except two homelites (which we called dog lights, seems like we needed two to make one run right). To make time, we had to keep cutting if our saw went down as the saw fix it shop was too far a drive from our camp.
Best saw of the bunch was the Husky. Next was the Stihl. My S-D worked well and I liked the balance as it felt the same sideways or straight up and down. We also had an Echo and Poulon as well, but, they were terrible for hard work (along with the homelites).
When I was a kid my dad had a huge McCullugh (sp?). Was from the North Cascades and must have had a three foot bar. Heavy. Fun to cut firewood with, though. I think my relations in Darrington all ran Stihls, and liked them. All timber industy folks, for several generations at least. They all have pics of them layin' inside old growth cutouts, ready to fall, drinkin' a beer. Crazy. Uncle found an old native canoe once. All pretty much injured to the point of retirement as some point, its seems (uncle, tree fell on him and shattered his hip, other uncle logging truck accident, grandpop, broke his back after getting tossed out of a tree whilst topping it off, etc). Tough lifestyle.
Kinda miss havin' a chainsaw around though...
-Brian in SLC
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flamer
Trad climber
denver
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May 18, 2007 - 04:33pm PT
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Blow...I got to climb with Jon a bit this spring, we ate way to much sushi in Vegas.
Diamond Mtn. is not some "look at me I got an appointment straight out of college" Crews!!!!
I was Gs3 when I was with them.
josh
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2007 - 06:52pm PT
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jesus man, that couldn't actually be a good idea could it? lol!
look, some of you guys might dang good at cutting down trees and all, but whatever, i'm not impressed.... this here thread be about using chainsaws to build stupid sh#t to jump yer bike off of!
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woodman
Social climber
CO
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May 20, 2007 - 07:16pm PT
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Get a stihl they rock. They are easy to maintain and an all around good saw!!
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2009 - 04:55pm PT
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i'm bored and stoked on cutting some wood this weekend.
figured this was worth a bump to show off the toy. huskie 372xp, ported and polish head and carb, modded jungle muffer and 28" oregon reduced weight bar.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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worth framing
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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What do chain saws and women have in common?
Some are self lubricating, others needs a little priming. Both, if not handled properly will kick and cut the shite out of you.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Nice!
I used a 372 when I worked for a tree service. We took out big a$$ trees with that thing.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Also ran tree crews for a couple of years and I'm with khanom, that looks like overkill for the task you were describing. But, you already have it so I'd also say the Stihl helmet and chaps are a necessity and, as was mentioned, being able to keep chains sharp. Dull chains make the saws incredibly dangerous - if you have even the slightest doubt, then stop and sharpen the chain or better, have a sharpened spare or two along with you. Get this as well:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0643090282/ref=ox_ya_oh_product#reader
Don't f*#k around with saws - either figure out how the pros use them or skip it altogether...
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apogee
climber
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You (she) might also consider...
Shoes
Chaps
Eye/ear protection
...or is that just her post-job casual wear?
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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lol, no amber wasn't running the saw, she can't hardly pick it up!
DEFINITLY not overkill. after a 235 and a 455 that were definitely not up to the task, this thing is perfect. i use it 3-4 days a week and she's fantastic. enough saw to do pretty much anything, and small enough for me to handle all day.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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They take their chainsaws serious in my sisters hometown....
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
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" I was up at a lake at timberline in the Yosemite National Park back in the mid seventies an we had a chainsaw... "
Yeah , I thot it ironic Warbler using saw for limbs and "crotches" when ice was available . There is actually an O.G. STF member named chainsaw who has some good (searchable) posts for perusal if you wanna go there .
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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WooHoo fer "SnagelTooth".....EuroFord, Ya got a mighty saw, too.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Can you say Competition Get Through A Two Foot Log In A Second?
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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Holy Crap!
Watch out, Ya'll. We be choppin'.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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All hail the mighty Binford 9000!!
In Action!
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Apr 16, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
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New toy bump.
My wife's been having all the fun buying furniture for our new house, I figured it was time for me to get a little action.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Apr 16, 2014 - 10:00pm PT
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My wife just bought me the exact same one this year!
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Apr 16, 2014 - 10:02pm PT
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Cool! How have you liked it?
Stalker edit: We met on Royal Arches last summer. And now this. Coincidence, or fate? ;)
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:25pm PT
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ohhh another oportunity
to paste my face around here,
and a seat shot,
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
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some sound and sawdust
in our boots,
stihl 660 with 36" bar at 180' tree-altitude
(6500' relative to sea)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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sac
Trad climber
Sun Coast B.C.
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:57pm PT
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It's been great. I took down about 20 small beetle kill pine from my land - enough wood for a winter with it. Now my neighbor wants me to clear his 10 acres next door this summer, so it should get a lot of use. And I'll get a lot of free fast-burning firewood!
And yeah, I remember you as well. Thanks for letting my buddy pass - he's always in a hurry for some reason!
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Apr 17, 2014 - 03:01am PT
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thebravecowboy
climber
in the face of the fury of the funk
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Apr 17, 2014 - 03:11am PT
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I think he (OP) was crushed by something.
oh yeah, a tree was it?
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NA_Kid
Big Wall climber
The Bear State
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Apr 17, 2014 - 05:48am PT
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Holy sh#t Norwegian! Sweet pictures. looks great up there.
Whats up with the giant core shot in your ring rope? time for a new one 'eh?
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Apr 17, 2014 - 07:56am PT
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These Oak beams were all ripped with an old Jonsered 80. You only see 1/4 of the total beams made. The 40 footers would not fit under the garage frame.
Pretty good example of how well the saw held up. My back didn't hold up so well, over the years.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Apr 17, 2014 - 09:55am PT
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I had a chainsaw but for some reason I don't recall, I sold it at a garage sale. I've regretted it many times since. Seems like every spring I need one - like last weekend in Soyo:
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Apr 17, 2014 - 10:10am PT
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Huskvarna? Jonsered?
:-o In the USA?
I was in Huskvarna this Tuesday. LOl. :-)
And I've had several of their chainsaws.
Jonsered lies 15 minutes outside Gothenburg.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 17, 2014 - 10:14am PT
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a caution to those whom run
a stihl ms200t.
the airfilter screw is a bit cranky, at times.
recently mine twisted contrary to it's will
and a tiny piece broke off and fell into
my carburetor.
i didn't know, started the saw
and frucked up the piston and cylinder,
370 dollars later i get it back.
stihl cancelled the 200t and
now offers the ms201t,
which meets new air quality standards.
i was forced to purchase and use the 201 while my
200 was in the shop.
i am happy to report that the little 201t
kick's ass and takes romans,
well just their numerals.
but anyway,
be careful when you are securing the air
filter on your 200t.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Apr 17, 2014 - 10:16am PT
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Norwegian,
it's very cool, but why don't you cut it at the bottom? Is it a matter of space or are you only cutting the top?
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 17, 2014 - 10:22am PT
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lolli the red fir
was leaning hard over a million dollar forest-service
foot bridge.
the footing for the bridge killed the tree,
as well as undermined it's root structure.
it was out in the boons, so i could not
employ a truck or crane.
those types you simply climb to the top
and take it down in pieces that you can
manage over the top of the tree's lean.
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steve shea
climber
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Apr 17, 2014 - 10:46am PT
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My old McCullough finally died. What do you guys say for a new one for home use and brush and small tree work? Say up to about 4" or 5" in diam. Looking to buy now. any thoughts? TIA
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Apr 17, 2014 - 11:45am PT
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Lollie - I have a Huskvarna. It's chambered for 30-06.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Apr 17, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
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Thank you, Norwegian. I figured there was a reason for it.
Banquo, it's old then. They made one which one could hunt wild boar, moose, and brown bear or polar bear with, for instance.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Apr 17, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
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It is old, my dad bought it in about 1954. It's a featherweight model and is unbelievably accurate for a short barrel, light rifle. It has shot many deer and elk in its day.
We Americans call a Wapiti, which looks like a European red deer, an elk. What Europeans call an elk, we would call a moose. Probably need pictures.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Apr 17, 2014 - 04:52pm PT
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The moose is a huge aninmal. The American elk (at least those I saw in Colorado) are small, half size of a moose.
I think the confusion comes from that Ameriican name, moose, is different from the Brittish English name, which is elk.
The Swedish word for moose is älg. (Elg.) Elch in German.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 17, 2014 - 06:03pm PT
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My old McCullough finally died. What do you guys say for a new one for home use and brush and small tree work? Say up to about 4" or 5" in diam. Looking to buy now. any thoughts? TIA I've got a stable of Husky's: an arborist's saw, a big 371 and a pole saw.
Excellent saws. Keep the chains sharp and oiled, change the plug and air filter once a year. That's about it. Each of them probably gets 20 hours use per year.
I sharpen my own chains by hand as do most professional arborists. If you know how to sharpen ice screws you can learn how to do a saw chain. But get instruction before you ruin your first chain.
For small stuff under about 6" get an arborist's saw. It's all you need, easy to handle and therefore probably safer.
However with an arborist's saw of any make, don't be tempted to use it one handed!
With a pole saw don't overreach and watch that the branch you're cutting doesn't land on you.
Always use non-kickback chain.
Always wear a helmet with face screen or shield. Hearing protectors (my helmet has good ear muffs). Boots, work gloves, and I have Kevlar chaps. You never know when the saw's going to jump or you're going to stumble and a running chain on your knee does a real number (did to a good friend)
How have my acquaintances gotten hurt? A running saw getting away from them either by poor technique or stumbling, falling off the ladder and falling out of the bleeding tree.
How've I gotten hurt? so far, not (knocking on the nearest piece of firewood).
PS
DONOT buy the cheap imitation Chinese Husky from the intardnet like my new neighbor did. Within about 4 hours of use he was asking me what was wrong with it. I couldn't get it to cut either. Gutless and badly balanced. I loaned him my old Husky and he immediately went out and bought a new Husky. Now he's happy and productive. With chain saws you get what you pay for. Stihl is also a very well respected brand. The pros generally use either Husky or Stihl.
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Mtbphoto
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, Ca
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Apr 17, 2014 - 06:54pm PT
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I loved my Stihl MS290 Farmboss, but I moved to a smaller condo with a pellet stove. Just remember to be careful, I almost cut my leg when I was tired from a whole day of cutting. Very surprised how fast my Carhartts stopped the chain.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 17, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
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The old McCullough my father-in-law gave me finally died, and I bought a Poulan at Walmart that worked fairly well for a couple years. When it died, I bought another, that worked for the warranty period and died.
I manned up! Paid more money for a 18" bar Stihl, and after teaching myself how to start it via Youtube videos, I have cut a bunch of brush and trees with it on our 5-acre ranchette in the last three years. I just replaced the original chain. Zero problems after learning how to start it.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Apr 17, 2014 - 10:53pm PT
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I have scars across my left wrist from using a saw when I was 14. I should post a pic of the three tables I made. Two done from a hardwood tree that fell in our yard in Guam. Flip flops and shorts were all I had to wear while cutting. Inlaid sea shells and crab shells and coral in the top. The third was a 4' dia tree stump I took a slab off of in BC and used it as a consult table in my dental office.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 18, 2014 - 12:59am PT
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Knew a guy who decapitated himself in front of his wife. He was holding it
up at shoulder level. He didn't notice the tree had grown around some barbed
wire and with the saw so high he couldn't handle the kickback.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 18, 2014 - 02:51am PT
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There is a lot of experience in this thread, and a lot of good advice.
I'm a (among other things) saw instructor for the USFS, and spend a lot of my summers cutting and falling trees.
I agree with many, that Stihl and Husky are the professional level saws, all that I use (I use agency saws for the most part).
However, I'm going to take issue with the concept that this is the right way to go, for what the OP posted.
Chainsaws are AWESOME machines, and they are SERIOUSLY dangerous.
They REQUIRE regular and knowledgeable MAINTENANCE, all the time, every time.
If you don't take care of them, they are miserable to use.
They REQUIRE personal protective gear, unless you like to gamble with your limbs.
You better know what you are doing, because things can get away from you very quickly.
Can they be used safely, sure. But if you are using one only once in a while, it is easy to lose the skills, forget things, or never develop the right habits. If you are using one all the time, it bears learning how to use one correctly from someone who knows.
But I don't want to be just a downer, because there is an alternative for the use mentioned by the OP: arborist HAND saws.
On my trail crews, we no longer use chainsaws to deal with trees/logs a foot or less thick. The saw that seems to be preferred by the USFS is a 16" saw made by Silky, costs about $100. My preference for most things is a 13" saw made by Samurai, costs about $20.
My favorite vendor is the Bishop company:
http://www.bishco.com/shop/Bishop/en_US/bishop-sales/product/C330LH?categoryId=10518&krypto=jx%2FH9OTNXAi3bLE75M15oXMejt5r%2FZqWyKmyW09LmhbUxWttwd9hyELGYDH%2B3eAz0rU7LLMeWu9N%0D%0Apjp0UPXaqcSGuuSVyuSINgPNgpbXNZk74Oq5SUGq3hlTK8onklKH
Far as know, they are the only company that sells arborist gear that has a full showroom in Ca with all the products in their catalog. Fun place to spend a couple hours.
when you take into account all the stuff you have to carry with a chainsaw...fuel, oil, chain oil, extra chain and parts, the saw...which is a hell of a lot if you have to go aways. the 13" handsaw weighs nothing, and it always works. I've hiked a saw in a few miles, only to have it not work. ALWAYS test-start it at the trailhead!
OR there is the Silky Katanaboy: the human powered chainsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbLTspqAV_4
Can cut up to 24"
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 18, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
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Every once in a while, something like this happens:
And I need to saw my way out:
I have a couple of chainsaws that get used pretty often. Both Echos. A CS-3000 series arborist top-handle one with a 16" bar, and a CS-5000 one with a 20" bar. I'm trying to find an excuse to get a Husqy, but these two just won't quit. So I can't justify a new one now.
Ken M has it right about those Japanese Silky hand saws.
This one has a sharp-as-hell 14" blade, and a handle I can get two hands on. I doubt I paid $100 for it. Maybe 50 or 60 bucks, I don't remember. Cuts almost as fast as a chainsaw, probably faster if you figure in fueling time, sharpening time, and making two trips carrying tools when I could have made just one carrying this and everything else.
Quiet, too. I can hear The Oldies station playing while using these.
My best arborist investment is probably the pole-saw.
With it, I can stand on the ground, and get at limbs 25' up. If I can get the blade on the limb, it's coming down.
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speelyei
Trad climber
Mohave County Arizona
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Apr 18, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
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A word of caution on the top handle and arborist saws...
The rear and top handles are positioned extremely close together, which gives much less control and leverage in the event of a kickback. The short bar, light saw, and handle designs can create a bad combination for the unwary. Also, ANSI standards require two hands on the saw at all times, but from an ergonomic perspective, arborist saws are obviously designed to be used with one hand. Also, arborist and top handled models really lend themselves to drop-starting, a practice discouraged by every tree care and logging company I've ever worked for.
Also, the "dogs", or bucking spikes, are usually made of plastic and of minimal effectiveness on some models. This encourages novices to use the front half and tip of the bar, increasing the likelihood of a kickback.
If you can find a decent used Stihl 021, I have found that to be a very useful, versatile, inexpensive saw. It will pull a 16" bar/chain, and with a full comp chain (not the reduced kickback garbage) it cuts really well.
Stihl saws from a few years ago start with a 0 designation (038, 044, etc), and in my opinion were much more durable, powerful saws than their newer MS equivalents.
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Dickbob
climber
Westminster Colorado
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Apr 18, 2014 - 04:23pm PT
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This is from a chain saw. Amazing what a good surgeon can do.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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May 16, 2014 - 09:26am PT
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im loving my job,
i passed my state contractor's license test yesterday
im calling it the paul, friend and chuck show.
chuck: owner / climber
friend: ground foreman / saw and chain maintenance
paul: climber / director of safety and training
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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May 16, 2014 - 10:04am PT
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Norwegian,
Not sure whether to congratulate you or cry for you.
Now you are subject to grumpy contractor spray.
The following is an important reminder;
What is the most money that you can make on a $15,000 job?
What is the most money that you can lose on a $15,000 job?
( no limit.)
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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May 16, 2014 - 10:11am PT
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oh it's great, flip flop.
we're a special lot.
the paul friend and chuck show.
clients throw money at us
and then buy us lunch.
i can make 3-4 hundred by 2 pm
then go climbing into the
soft and fluffy evening.
i hear your consideration, though.
it's a wreckless pursuit,
but that is exactly where
i thrive.
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| Messages 1 - 128 of total 128 in this topic |
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