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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 24, 2007 - 03:09am PT
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Climbing cars, a lament...
OK, I am really feeling bummed about 510OW and missing the Sushifest. So as an act of therapy, and to wait for the thousands of pictures and millions of words... I thought I'd get you all to relate your climbing trip car breakdowns. This is full disclosure, I don't expect any of you would willing go on a trip in one of my cars ever again..
I'll start, though not with 510OW, with a few stories and cars... and look for some pictures too.
My very first car ever was a 1961 VW bus, which Debbie and I bought in Berkeley in 1975, ZOT580. We actually bought two wrecked VW buses, and a lot of parts, which we assembled into one bus... We drove this from Berkeley to New York City via Los Angeles and Boston. For a lot of years this was my ride. Here it is having transported Mike, Richie, Bill and me to New Hampshire in 1979 to climb at Whitehorse and Cathedral Ledges.
Turns out that aside from some mistiming on a tune-up, this car never broke down on a climbing trip. It did have problem on a spring trip from New York to Boston and back... On the way out the front wheel bearings became very noisy. No problem! I had my How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive book and I was golden. I changed the front wheel bearings and over tightened the right side. At some point it became a very squeaky wheel on the way back to New York. So every 40 to 50 miles or so, I pulled over and repacked the bearing all the way back.
My constant reading companion in those years:
At some point I couldn't keep it together, so I bought a 1977 (or 78?) bus. Here it is the parking lot at Stoney Clove in 1985 in a snow storm after ice climbing:
Once again, I always seemed to keep this car going for climbing trips, but Debbie was an unwitting victim once... her sister came out and they decided they'd drive up to the see the Mystic Sea Port in Connecticut. I told her to rent a car, no way, "you take that car everywhere, why should I have to rent a car?!" Ok, I tune it up, get it ready for the family to putt-putt off in, peace of mind.
So I'm at work where the switchboard had no operator on the weekend, a bell would ring in the computer room, which is where I was serendipitously when Debbie called to report they had broken down on the Connecticut Turnpike. "What's wrong?" "Linda thinks it's a fuel pump." I ride my bike 20 miles to White Plains to get a rental car, then drive back to the lab where my 1961 bus was the parts cabinet, I got every gas pump that I owned (probably something like 4 or 5) and took off to find them.
Of course when I got there I did the test... "gas, spark, air" if all those things are happening then the engine should be running. There was gas, so scratch the pump hypothesis. But no spark. I checked everything and see that the points that I had just installed were broken... bah, Bosch! I had a set that were the wrongs type, but with a little imaginative bending and cutting got the car going.
I don't have a picture of the 1967 Beetle that I had around this time. That one did break down once, but not far from home. Mike and I were going to climb at the 'Gunks. He was house sitting close to where I lived, I picked him up, and as I was turning on the Saw Mill Parkway on-ramp the front left ball joint popped. I was so pissed that I just drove it back with the wheel rubbing, only about a half mile.
Eventually we made enough money to buy a new car, a 1989 VW Golf. What a nice car... in 1993 I took it out to Canada for a month. Here it is at the Saskatchawan Glacier trail head. There is Mike and Lawrence getting ready to launch onto the glacier, our objective was Mt. Columbia.
Various other things happened and we never got across the ice field. We did have a great trip back there, though. On the way home, the main radiator hose decided that life was too sweet, and decided to commit suicide in the middle of pretty much nowhere. Here it is with the field engineered fixes that got me back to Massachusetts..
Eventually I decided that all I really wanted was a reliable ride, and that I was making enough money to pay to keep the cars fixed so the epic nature of travel wouldn't intervene... ho man... you can never escape it, of course.
So I'm still bumming that we missed the Sushifest, but basking in the friendly glow of the SuperTopo community as was on display in Melissa's Pity Party in the East Bay.
Hopefully you all have stories too...
"Be kind to your Ass, for he bears thee"
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Apr 24, 2007 - 03:16am PT
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"Be kind to your Ass, for he bears thee"
Sweet. I want that on a bumper sticker.
I would be way to stoopid to deal with a tempermental auto.
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Apr 24, 2007 - 09:17am PT
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Somebody should get Ed a new book. Then maybe he could buy something besides VWs.
then drive back to the lab where my 1961 bus was the parts cabinet, I got every gas pump that I owned (probably something like 4 or 5) and took off to find them.
I must confess that this is the first hint I have seen that Ed is a redneck - a mutant variation, given his German car penchant. :-)
Mein Gott! "Duct Tape"! German auto engineers rolling over in their graves.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 24, 2007 - 09:59am PT
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"This is it,
this is the trip,
this the part, I really like."
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2007 - 11:16am PT
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TiG - not my book, but a reasonable facsimile taken (unattributed) off the web...
I forgot to post this one of 510OW, in Tuolumne Meadows a couple of years ago now, with all of the guys who climbed with me and rode in those vehicles... and who appeared in the pictures above:
Life is to precious to waste it worrying over mechanical problems... hug a friend today!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 24, 2007 - 11:24am PT
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Good one Ed....
I never went anywhere without my new set of pistons and sleeves and a few main bearings. Got a '67 bus from my sister in trade for my '62 T-Bird in 1979/80. Still have the bus and it was running until a few months ago... now it just sits there as a kick ass storage locker waiting for a longblock.
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spyork
Social climber
Land of Green Stretchy People
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Apr 24, 2007 - 11:27am PT
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Damn Ed, I used to have that book! It was all dog eared and greasy from working on my 57 ragtop bug. I can smell the gear oil even now...
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L
climber
NoName City and It Don't Look Pretty
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Apr 24, 2007 - 11:44am PT
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Dang Ed--You spin a good yarn!
Only because my brother's way into cars, and because you supplied pictures, could I translate your story into girlspeak: Drive a Honda.
I do, and have never broken down on a climbing trip.
Thanks for an excellent lament!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 24, 2007 - 12:16pm PT
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I was a VW pilot for years Ed, so you have the entirety of my masochistic sympathy. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that my life was enough of an adventure without driving one too! I have heat now, without fumes. What a concept!
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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Apr 24, 2007 - 12:20pm PT
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Ha, those cars were fun if you liked working on them.
I think I told you guys at the pity party that I once rebuilt my Bug engine in my dorm room over spring break. All I needed was my book and a few tools. The cleaning staff didn't appreciate my parts dip in the room though.
Glad I got to meet ya at the pity party.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 24, 2007 - 12:24pm PT
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"Drive a Honda" haha, more Ironic than you know!
FWIW, I have repaired my ex's '97 accord alongside the road.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Apr 24, 2007 - 12:27pm PT
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T
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Y
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A
m
a
k
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s
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m
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g
o
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d
t
r
u
c
k
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L
climber
NoName City and It Don't Look Pretty
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Apr 24, 2007 - 12:31pm PT
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Well Jaybro, cars have personalities. If it belonged to your ex and you were doing the repairs...that might explain a few things. (chuckle, chuckle)
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 24, 2007 - 12:34pm PT
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Good point
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 24, 2007 - 12:40pm PT
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Back in those days most climbers had VW's. They were cheap and easy to fix and maintain.
I've been thru a lot of mechanical break downs on the road in various places to numerous to want to go into it.
I'm still stuck with those kind of cars.
Nice interesting thread you made there, Ed
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2007 - 02:42pm PT
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we drove those cars, back in the day, because we could fix them... it was the only way I could have had a car. I believe I touched every part on a VW bus and bug...
Drive a Honda is ironic because that was Debbie's advice to our daughter, when she bought a VW new beetle... told Jaybro the story on the long 1300 mile trip (in less than 24 hours) that we made last week.
Debbie, by the way, thought I was crazy for buying 510OW...
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L
climber
NoName City and It Don't Look Pretty
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Apr 24, 2007 - 03:37pm PT
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Don't get me wrong--I've replaced parts in my car over the years. The thing is, it always warns me first. Usually several times. Never just takes a dump on the highway...which a chick can certainly appreciate, not being automotively inclined.
It's a 1990 CRX in mint condition, gets 45 miles to the gallon, and doesn't leak oil. I'm keeping that baby forever...
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Apr 24, 2007 - 04:59pm PT
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Sounds like you've already kept it forever!
My climbing cars have been good to me. Worst I've had to do it add a little stop leak on the road to fix a leaky radiator.
Plenty of issues in prior cars though.
I had a 65 Corvair that threw an intake valve seat a couple of times. To drive home I'd have to figure out which cylinder, and pull the sparkplug, to prevent it from blowing into the intake manifold.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Apr 24, 2007 - 05:08pm PT
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I now own an OBDII code reader, that's what it's come to.
I also had a little rag top 57 bug, red, with a hole in the floor under the gas peddle thru which the road slush would spray up and muck up the inside of the windshield. It had a ski rack on the back and parts I robbed off a John Deer. I finally gave it up for a Canadian dirt bike with studs. Today most of my breakdowns involve the cooling. Water, must be the Piscean influence.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Apr 24, 2007 - 05:14pm PT
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" I now own an OBDII code reader, that's what it's come to. "
Doesn't everyone?
OK, I know they don't but probably should. If they drive OBDII car (some 95 models, and all 96 and newer US cars).
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 24, 2007 - 05:36pm PT
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"OBDII code reader"
-Hunh?
-WTF?
-I drive a '90 Saab
-Should I have one?
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Apr 24, 2007 - 05:50pm PT
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Nope.
For OBDII (On Board Diagnostics 2) cars (1996 & newer models + a few 95s), you can scan trouble codes with an OBDII scanner. If the check engine light (CEL) is on you have trouble codes, and even if it isn't you may (at least some cars only light the CEL for codes that could damage the catalytic converter).
Older computerized cars used OBD 1, or maybe a proprietary diagnostics system. Either way with older cars you pretty much need a seperate scanner for each car manufacturer. You can use *most* OBDII scanners on *most* OBDII cars.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Apr 24, 2007 - 05:57pm PT
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" "OBDII code reader"
-Hunh?
-WTF?
-I drive a '90 Saab
-Should I have one? "
No, but Saab may have some cryptic fault code reading procedure you can use when your 'check engine' light comes on.
Google says 'yes!' For Jaybro's reading pleasure and confusion:
http://www.troublecodes.net/Saab/
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 24, 2007 - 06:21pm PT
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Thanks all! That was way more useful than I thought it would be.
Any reccomendations on a tester?
the "LH System Tester (1985-93 2.3 LH)" sounds like a likely good choice.
JC Whitney?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2007 - 11:02am PT
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ok, the word from the Mechanic: cylinder #3 is pumpin oil, certainly broken rings, probably burned piston... he can patch it, but doesn't think that is the way to go...
SOOOO, what to do, what to do....
...if I keep 510OW I will probably execute the heretofore mentioned diesel conversion. That will cost a pretty penny... buy a Honda you say? well, I'll probably do that 'cause D has stated her's is getting tired and old and she would like a new one, and I can use the old one on the scavanger circuit to look for a VW TDI (97 or 98 preferred for the Vanagon conversion).
The benefit of a diesel conversion is several fold
 get ~30 mpg with diesel
bomb proof engines with low maintenance
can rebuild it with seals to allow bio-diesel (Sheryl Crow has nothing on me!)
the cons:
it's gonna cost
I perpetuate the VW cycle of karma
the car is already 20 years old...
So we'll see how this all pans out.
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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Apr 25, 2007 - 11:13am PT
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Hey Ed,
If you're taking suggestions for a newer car, I'll put in for the Toyota Matrix. Crimpie and I both have the XRS with the higher powered motor. No problems with power for me with this little car and I still get pretty decent mileage. I can fold down the rear seat and sleep in the back and I have no problem doing 75 with a bunch of kayaks on the roof heading up to the rivers.
Downside of the XRS is that you gotta use at least midrange gas or else the power band is really crappy.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 25, 2007 - 11:26am PT
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Certainly there are 'safer' alternatives, but I say, stay on the path, the Wheel keeps turning and it won't slow down
go with the Deisel! I wanna see what happens
"life is a bold adventure or it is nothing," Helen K.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Apr 25, 2007 - 11:29am PT
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Perhaps the Vanagon engine swap will be cheaper if you use the Subaru power plant? Here's a WRX turbocharged subaru engine in a vanagon - note the intercooler across the top:
I'm sure THAT transplant was simple and cheap. not. You've probably already considered the popular Subaru transplant, but thought I'd throw it out there.
Either the diesel or Subaru engine would be a great way to keep the Westphalia going. But IF you're done with the VW Van and thinking of selling it, then I'd dump it now and let someone else choose how they want to fix the engine.
And then get the, uh - WTF IS this thing? Another dopey GM design. "Way to hit it out of the park, guys! This will outsell the Aztek for sure!"
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roslyn
Trad climber
washington
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Apr 25, 2007 - 11:30am PT
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ed, i feel your pain. my 97 volkswagen golf broke down on the kootenay summit on the way to the bugaboos last summer. had to have it towed (500 bucks) and found out that the motor had blown. My partner picked me up at home, but we missed two days climbing and when we got there, bad weather blew in and we never did more than some scrambling!!!
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Apr 25, 2007 - 12:07pm PT
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Ed: Stick with the V-Dubs! I have to live vicariously through somebody!
I've always had them (until I moved to Seattle a couple of years ago). The newest one I ever had was a '71 double-cab pickup (my first ever bay window...not quite aesthetically the same as the split), but otherwise nothing newer than '67s (buses and bugs). I'll have to dig around for some breakdown on climbing trips photos, 'cuz I have 'em somewhere.
Essential accessories: oil, clutch cable, generator belt, flat-blade screwdriver, socket and wrench for generator, and the Idiot Book--which always looks as thrashed as the one in your picture, because anyone who has a VW has cracked it open about a hundred times with oil and grime covered mitts.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 25, 2007 - 12:12pm PT
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Ed... find a shady tree and lay your tarp on the ground..... get a giant ice chest filled with beer... get some chips..... call JayBro...... get 'er done boys. Bet the OW rig is up and running rough within 3 days.
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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Apr 25, 2007 - 12:20pm PT
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74 VW Westfalla
2 engines.
Dozens of CV Joints.
Lots of hitch hiking.
A little bit of vomiting.
More than a few mandatory bivies:
Indian Creek with Tarbuster snowed in.
Wolf Creek Pass CV joint.
Shelf Road with Unibonger CV joint.
5 Points Denver realized I was way to drunk to be driving.
The Pit in Flag when the washer I dropped into the tube from the carburetor to the engine finally worked its way into the engine.
Those were the days, 40 MPH in 2nd gear up the passes and 90 on the way down.
How many bus owners had the sunflower propane heaters strapped to the top of a cooler between the seats? That was neat…
Prod.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Apr 25, 2007 - 12:47pm PT
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I had this cool in-line fan that brought the hair's breath of heat from the backside all the way up into the front seat. Huh? How cool is that?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 25, 2007 - 02:00pm PT
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I remember Russ' van having a heater arrangement that was clearly only for those bold of nature.
qoute, "I drive with an open flame."
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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Apr 25, 2007 - 02:09pm PT
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Yo Jaybro,
I think the concept of my heater actually came from Russ via Roy (Tarbuster). I remember many a night in a panic as the heater (open flame and all) would launch off the cooler and roll around in the back of the bus like a 25 pound maltov cocktail. That was some boot cut sh#t I tell you, spilling my beer rushing for the shoulder and jumping out of the drivers seat to catch it.
Prod
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 25, 2007 - 02:42pm PT
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hahahaha! True story! I made a dash heater out of a cut down happysunflower™™™ with a C clamp bailing wired to the stem.... long hose from the 20lb tank fed the beast..... always exciting for the passenger. Cool thing about those sunflowers is when they get old, the mesh on the actual sunflower starts to erode, thus giving you a nice open flame leaking out the top.
I remember driving to Hueco BITD with the sunflower rolling and in the passenger seat area the two burner coleman at full throttle making 'spro and Quesadillas while moaning down interstate 10 at a prudent 56 miles per hour. Having an open flame nearby really takes the bite out of 16 hour drives.
Andretti edit: I used to on occasion leave the cassette tape case in the back of the bus by mistake.... long drives need tunes.... didn't want to stop the bus once it got up to ramming speed, so I would wait for a nice straight bit of highway, and then bail into the back of the bus and try to find the tape case...... full auto pilot baby! Try that then when you are falling asleep at the wheel and need to go another 400miles with eyes wide open.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Apr 25, 2007 - 03:10pm PT
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I'm just sayin, not all VWs are goners...
not mine... [as in I don't own this one, but I'm posting it, sorry for confusion]
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Apr 25, 2007 - 08:34pm PT
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That's a beautiful thing, Munge. A beautiful thing.
Here are a few of my beautiful things...'64 Type II:
A '71 Double-Cab Pickup, and a '67 Westy:
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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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Apr 26, 2007 - 09:12am PT
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Sh#t Fish,
It's been so long I forgot about the auto pilot routine. There is a section of 70 heading west just into the UT border that is dead nuts straight where I employed that maneuver to grab a bag of pot from under the seat. Gotta be careful not to bump the wheel on the exit. Recently on a trip in the U.P. (Upper Peninsula) of Michigan driving across a stretch of road called the Seeney Stretch, 27 miles dead straight. I put my truck in cruse had the passenger grab the wheel and headed out the back window to track down a lime in a cooler for my Tecate.
Passenger “What the f*#k are you doing”
Me “Just hold the wheel”
Passenger “What the f*#k are you doing”
Me “It’s ok”
Passenger “No No NO, get back in your.. you’re f*#king crazy as#@&%e” etc
Minute at most later.
Passenvet “You’re a f*#king as#@&%e”
Me “So you don’t want a lime in your beer?”
I think he was really a little shook up over that one.
Back to road trip rides, check out this hum dinger. It is a bute. The guy calls it a Airanodo, as it is a cross between an Airstreem and a Toranado.
This is my first attempt to post a pic….
Prod.
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Apr 26, 2007 - 10:51am PT
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I've driven from Colorado to the Valley on more than one occasion, in two different vehicles, in late spring/summer, with the heat on believing that the vehicle ran better that way. Coming back from CA in July, having the heat on crossing the San Rafael Swell is not a pleasant experience.
Eventually when I got the long term problem looked at by someone who actually understands engines, (I consider myself to be as far on the other side of the spectrum as is possible), it turned out that having the heater on had no bearing on how well my Nissan truck was or was not running.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
California
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Apr 26, 2007 - 11:44am PT
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My Toyota is seventeen years old and she's been "overall" very dependable.
Yet one day while leaving John's house "coming home to Ventura from a climbing trip," she broke down on the 395 thirty minutes from the Manzanar Historic Site. At the time it was the middle of the night and a grass fire was in progress near me.
I first tried calling a tow truck but they were all booked that night and I had to wait until morning to get one. I then called John but he was dead sleeping, (we had climbed all day and he did most of the work.) I then called the highway patrol just to let them know I was there waiting for a truck. Plus I called my friend Ron (my group's rescue man) so he knew where I was to check up on me in the morning. (The poor guy wanted to pick me up, but we both knew it was useless since it would take him the same amount of time as the tow truck to get there.)
I then took a nap once the wind shifted the fire away from my location. I would only occasionally wake up to Ron's frantic check up calls. (He kept muttering about how I needed a gun, that I should never travel farther then fifteen minutes from my Dad's house and how dangerous it was for me to be sleeping next to a highway. Plus with his college professor voice, he kept giving statistics upon how many people disappeared/murdered on California highways etc.) "Ron is my big overprotected brother and just as annoying."
When morning came, John called while driving towards me, he was clearly upset over missing my phone call. He arrived, got a tow truck and we had a great breakfast together. Once the car was transported to a garage, we found out it was only the thermostat.
Then later on my second attempt of trying to get home on the "same trip..." My car was struck by lightning while coming down the grade from Mammoth Lakes. It fried my fuses which made smoke fill the cabin. "I had to laugh." (God didn't want me to leave Mammoth.)
I then called John to share in the humor. I then stopped at a gas station, replaced the fuses and drove the car over ninety. (The photodiodes on my alternator were fried and I needed the speed to override them. Plus I was fed up with dealing with overpriced garages and wanted to get home.) When I did get home, my Dad helped me fix the car. When I told him I that drove it over ninety as one of my solutions, he grinned with pride. (He would have done the same.)
That evening Ron and my father did start planning on ways to lock me down, but they were unluckily distracted by beer and food. (My mother is a genius.)
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Apr 26, 2007 - 11:49am PT
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Haha, great stories Anastasia.
Thank God you have men folk that care enough to WANT to lock you up!
And how about those Toyotas?! I may be dumping some German stuff and buying a Toyata here soon.
And what is happening with 510 OW? Fix, swap or dump?
Bill
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2007 - 03:13pm PT
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Please standby
...economic and emotional calculations are now in progress...
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Apr 26, 2007 - 03:15pm PT
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"...economic and emotional calculations are now in progress... "
Emotional?! So Ed is NOT an OW droid, as all the offwidth reports make him out to be.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2007 - 02:23am PT
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ok, here's the deal...
...I'm looking for a Volkswagen with a TDI engine in it, say a model from years 1997-2001...Passat, Jetta, Golf, new Beetle, any of these, for a donor car.
The car can be complete crap, the ideal situation would be that the engine will start.
Any of you in the Bay Area know where the sort of wreck I'm looking for could be found?
Best if it is a California car
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Apr 27, 2007 - 06:28pm PT
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Ed, a turbodiesel salad oil burning Vanagon would be the sh*t. But everyone's on that bandwagon so could be tough.
A buddy who is doing that conversion to a 1981 VW Rabbit pickup says this firm has the engine you want, but he thinks they're about $4,500 http://www.tassiinc.com/
You can also call Chris at German Auto Sport in Berkeley at (510) 525-6000.
Otherwise I guess a wrecked one off craigslist, or monthly auto auctions.
Bill
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