Discussion Topic |
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 30, 2007 - 12:54pm PT
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A remarkable scene IMO.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe . . . Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the darkness at Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain . . . Time to die."
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 12:58pm PT
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Blade Runner--best scene in the movie! Made me want to cry for the skull-crushing droid (Rutger Hauer)...
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:00pm PT
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The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:05pm PT
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That's a wild scene and line, from a movie that was full of them. Best by far of the films made from Philip K Dick stories. Say, there's a question ... what are the others?
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:10pm PT
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OK--how about this one?
"The kid gets it all. Just bury us in the damn cornfield next to the damn lion."
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:15pm PT
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Fell oin love with Sean whatshername too.
Oh yeah.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:15pm PT
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I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life, anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.
Now tell me what the hell I'm doing posting on some California based climbing site.
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drb1215
Trad climber
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:18pm PT
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L - Secondhand Lions.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:22pm PT
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One of my all time favorite SF films. Ridley Scott did an awesome job, film noir and all. The soundtrack by Vangelis is wonderful, and I still listen to it now and then. Harrison Ford, well you can't get any better than that (looking foward to Indiana Jones IV).
One of my favorite classes in college was the Art of Cinema, and Blade Runner was my favorite film review.
I like the director's cut available on DVD, but I wish the original with Harrison's voice-over was availalbe also. Maybe they will do a double re-release with that option?
The film has so much to say. Way ahead of it's time IMHO.
Classic.
Further Edit: I agree Sean is a delicious gorgeoius babe in the movie.
Have any of you ever read the book that inspired the movie?
"Do Andriods Dream of Electric Sheep?"
Great read if you haven't. Very different ending.
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:23pm PT
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drb1215--Oh My God! I thought it was a cult classic (besides being one of my favorite films) and sure to fool any normal SuperTopian.
You are now my hero!
Klimmer--I saw the original with the voice-over. Far superior to the Director's cut that I own. The voice-over changes the entire ending IMHO.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:27pm PT
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Did someone say "Film noir"?
"I hope they don't hang you, precious, by that sweet neck. Yes, angel, I'm gonna send you over. The chances are you'll get off with life. That means if you're a good girl, you'll be out in 20 years. I'll be waiting for you. If they hang you, I'll always remember you."
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Bling Cosby
Social climber
Beverly Hills
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:28pm PT
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Blade Runner will be released this year on HD DVD. Can't wait to watch it on our 10'+ diagonal screen in our home theater !! Pass the Stags Leap cab please.................
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:33pm PT
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:33pm PT
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http://www.philipkdick.com/films_intro.html
Kind of partial to A Scanner Darkly...jmo seemed the "most" Dickish...
My fave novel is Zap Gun, but the Perky Pat Microworld from "3 Stigmata" is pretty fantastic as well..
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2007 - 01:38pm PT
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I also thought the original (with Ford's VO) was the vastly superior one. The VO was simple and direct and pulled up the important stuff for all to see and hear. It also added just the right emotional tone to the ending "time to die" scene.
JL
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:41pm PT
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Secondhand Lions was an awesome flick. It seems as though all the really good movies that people really like just never get their due.
Duvall and Caine were phenomenal, and the kid did a damn good job too.
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G_Gnome
Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:43pm PT
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Loved Blade Runner. My next favorite would probably by Dark City.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:44pm PT
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One of my favorite Dick stories, title now forgotten, was one where the hero started seeing terrible hallucinations, clanking monsters and machines, when he watched the evening news on TV. Goes to doc to find out what's wrong with him, doc reports -- here's the twist -- that he's been doped with a powerful anti-hallucinogen. Hero realizes that his horrible visions are a first glimpse of reality.
It's one of those what-you-thought-was-real-is-all-false moments that run through all of Dick's writing, and the resulting movies such as Blade Runner, Total Recall and AI.
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:45pm PT
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Bluering--I liked the pig.
Chiloe--I liked that one, too! Only saw it once, late at night, but no kidding, ever since: I've really been wondering...
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:46pm PT
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Bling Cosby
Social climber
Beverly Hills
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:48pm PT
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" Loved Blade Runner. My next favorite would probably by Dark City"
Dark City is a GREAT movie!!!
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:52pm PT
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OK--keeping with the dark theme, name this movie:
"Jesus walks into a motel. He slaps down 3 nails and asks: Can you put me up for the night?"
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:54pm PT
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L, there were so many awesome things about that movie. That's what made it so good. I own it, one of those flicks you can watch over and over.
It was also cool how you didn't really know if Duvall and Caine's stories were tall tales or true...
How about them all in overalls planting in the garden and evrything comes up corn eventually.
Or after Duavall woops on the youth he takes them home and 'schools' them and eventually they all wind up with rifles looking for the lion. Funny.
Or Duvall and Caine buying a seconhand lion and wanting to shoot it in the crate...and the kids reaction.
I always like Duvall, great actor. Kind of a strange role for Caine, but he did a great job. Made the character perfect.
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:57pm PT
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Bluering--Do you have the DVD? Have you looked at the outtakes and multiple endings? OMG! Hysterical!
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:57pm PT
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L, I saw Secondhand Lions a couple of months ago. Great film. Aside from some great lines I loved the fight scene.
Blade Runner is of course one of my favorites, being partial to good sci-fi.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 01:58pm PT
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detail
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:05pm PT
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'All those moments will be lost in time. Like tears in the rain. Time to die'
Those lines were unscripted, added by Rutger Hauer during the shoot. Brilliant improvisation, and cheers to Ridley for keeping it in the film.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:10pm PT
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RE: above
sometime check out the collected short stories of Katherine Ann Porter - stunning, very few write better.
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:11pm PT
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Tyrell: I'm surprised you didn't come here sooner.
Roy: It's not an easy thing to meet your maker.
Tyrell: And what can he do for you?
Roy: Can the maker repair what he makes.
Tyrell: Would you like to be modified?
Roy: Stay here. -- I had in mind something a little more radical.
Tyrell: What-- What seems to be the problem?
Roy: Death.
Tyrell: Death. Well, I'm afraid that's a little out of my jurisdiction, you--
Roy: I want more life, f*#ker.
I agree with John by the way. The original release is better than the director's cut.
Brian
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:17pm PT
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WHOAH COOL!! I just watched a trailer for Next. Looks awesome! Is it out yet? I don't have television so I don't get to see movie ads.
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:19pm PT
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Klinefelter--Don't know if it was in Ship of Fools or not. I was thinking of Brandon Lee in The Crow. Just before he kicks some major booty.
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:28pm PT
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Yeah Dingus--That's what we were talking about. The original had that scenic drive and Ford's VO about no termination date for the girl.
The Director's cut didn't have it, and it wasn't that good.
I guess we all like a happy ending.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:37pm PT
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Anyone read Stanislaw Lem The Futurological Congress?
trip out book
chemical society is right
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:44pm PT
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Part of the ambiguity of the ending has to do with Decker himself.
In the director's cut (maybe in the original too, I can't recall) there is a scene where Decker is dreaming of a unicorn.
When he leaves his flat at the end, before the escape, the orgami figure he picks up is a unicorn (not a horse).
The implication is that Decker himself is a replicant. The other cop knows his dreams because the dreams have been implanted, just as the girl's memories of the spiders were implanted. Thus the comment about not knowing how much time one has.
There are hints earlier as well, when Decker is asked (and he does not answer) if he has ever been given the replicant test.
Truly a brilliant movie.
Brian
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 30, 2007 - 02:54pm PT
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largo, i hope you don't take this the wrong way, but for me some of your most soulful and memorable writing has been the eulogies you've created for those who've gone on before us. when you wrote of billy westbay boldly and fearlessly casting off -- "time to die" -- well, it was just perfect and beautiful and utterly fitting. you really are one helluva writer.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 30, 2007 - 03:09pm PT
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You all got me thinking big time about this wonderful film.
You can find just about anything on the "Internets":
http://www.bladezone.com/forum.html
Apparently, the HD - DVD will be multiple disks with all versions of the story along with extras.
Then the Final Cut version is supposed to be released in the theaters! Apparently, when I saw the original in '82 in Washington DC, at the time the movie bombed, but has become a cult classic since. I loved it, and went out and bought the soundtrack on LP immediately, and still have it.
So I guess what ever version you like, you get!
Good news. Can't wait.
http://bladezone.com/
Now, how long have we waited for Dr. Jones (IJ4)? The hell they put us through . . . Man, they got it down to a fine science don't they?
Great cinema is a drug for our imagination and emotions.
Edit: And not to mention an escape . . .
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 03:19pm PT
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Holy Replicants Batman!
Brian! I never understood the MAJOR significance of the origami unicorn! I thought it was just Decker realizing the other cop had been there and let the girl live!
But if Decker was a replicant...why was he so puny??? I mean, Roy was making mincemeat of him. All the other reps were super strong, too, or so it seemed. They had to be for the outer space tours. Why was Decker the 98 pound weakling?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 30, 2007 - 03:27pm PT
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If I remember right, even in the book "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" it was ambigious. Some are speculating that Ridley Scott might answer that for once and all in the final version for theater release.
I kind of like it ambigious . . . leaves you hanging wanting more.
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 03:30pm PT
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L
Good question. First, I don't know if, or even if I think, Decker is a replicant. It seems ambigious.
However, one possible answer is that Decker is a different model. The girl (Sean whatshername) seems to be pretty weak, in physical terms. She was created by Tyrell for something different.
Likewise, Decker could have been made as a replicant to track replicants. I mean, if he is a replicant with implanted memories and dreams, he could be a new model. Heck, he could be only one month old--created to track down Roy and his group.
It really is an amazing movie in terms of making you think about personal identity, memory, humanity, and--most importantly--the incommunicable beauty and tragic frailty of life.
Glad this thread started.
Brian
EDIT: Klimmer is right, I like it ambigious. "The Lady or the Tiger" anyone?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 30, 2007 - 03:31pm PT
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Although my wife thought it was a bit over the top, the dove flying from the hand of the replicant Roy Batty in that death scene was poetic in my opinion...
I liked both the movie and the book (Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?) which is rare. But both the movie maker and the author exploited an interesting idea in a more profound than usual way.
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 30, 2007 - 03:44pm PT
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Remember when Gaff tells Deckard "You've done a man's job, sir!"
Gaff is the real "Bladerunner" and just uses Deckard as his tool to get to the other four - Deckard is the mysterious fifth replicant from the six who fled the rebellion (one died on the trip).
Deckard seems week because he's been programmed to think he's human (so that he'll hunt replicants without remourse). He's actually pretty badass, taking a beating at the end that no human could endure.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 30, 2007 - 03:44pm PT
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And don't forget, Dick was nuttier than a fruitcake.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 30, 2007 - 03:55pm PT
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Why is it that we like these dark futuristic movies so much, especially Blade Runner?
My hunch is because we fear a fate of something similiar is in our future, and like the andriods all we really want is to be able to live and enjoy our lives for as long as possible (if not forever), with family and friends, and to be left the hell alone.
I really think that is what most of us want, yes?
Edit: On further thought . . . and if that is what we truly want, then it dictates that we do something to help stop such a plight of the world. I don't want my children to inherit a broken down Earth. Ultimately, I want them to inherit a world better than I experienced it, but sadly I don't know if that is really possible. That saddens me to no end.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 30, 2007 - 04:07pm PT
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Well said Dingus, I love the classics. Martian Chronicles, Robbie...Those guys had fabulous minds.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 30, 2007 - 04:11pm PT
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The best of the lot was Theodore Sturgeon. And for some reason I always liked those guys from the '30s, like A.E. Van Vogt.
Van Vogt scored big from Alien. He had a great short called Dark Destroyer that a jury felt was close enough to the movie to warrant him getting a cut of the action. Cool.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 30, 2007 - 04:21pm PT
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In the book, I thought Decker had a wife. I really don't think he was a replicant, since he was a retired blade runner called back for this job by his old boss.
I didn't like the directors cut either, but the original version was my favorite movie for a long time, and is still my favorite Sci Fi movie.
But Ridley Scott seems to have the touch of gold, mo matter what genre he goes with.
Anyone a fan of Kingdom of Heaven?
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 04:29pm PT
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I'm with you, Dingus. Some of the first books I ever read were by Clark, Herbert, Asimov, Andre Norton...then the addiction grew to Bradbury and Vonnegut.
The strange thing about a lot of that writing is that it isn't science fiction anymore.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:08pm PT
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And Clarke's Martian Chronicles still brings a tear to my eyes.
Bradbury layered his wistful elegy for a vanished Mars so you could see what we'd really lost, a more peaceful America, underneath.
Late at night some of the old Twilight Zone episodes on TV strike me that way too, though I don't think they were meant to at the time.
I was a 50s/60s sci-fi junkie as a kid. From Forbidden Planet to A.E. Van Vogt.
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:10pm PT
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For better or worse, Herbert and Tolkien were, through their fiction, absolutly formative influences on my young self (and, therefore, on my present self). I can't say enough about either series.
"Kingdom of Heaven" was alright IMO. How about "The Duelists"? Another classic.
Brian
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:14pm PT
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Chiloe, You got me hooked on William Gibson.
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:16pm PT
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dirt has a good comment about Decker above (married); however, the movie is not really a carbon copy of the book. Same case with "Total Recall" and "We can remember it for you wholesale," etc. The movie adaptation always takes liberties with the story and the question of Decker's status seems essential to the movie. I guess I should say that the question of Decker's "origin" remains ambigious, because part of the point of the movie is that Decker, Roy, Priss, et al. are definitely "persons," even if they are not homo sapiens...
Brian
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:18pm PT
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Chiloe, You got me hooked on William Gibson.
Whoa, I'd forgotten about him. Didn't we name some climb Neuromancer? I've kept up with his more recent books too, although that one was the best.
Two other semi-modern sf works I liked were Dan Simmons' Hyperion and Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game. Both seemed really original and sweeping. But then both authors made a franchise outta them, I guess that's how it's done nowadays, and wrote stacks of not-so-fresh sequels.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:22pm PT
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What of 'A Canticle for Leibowitz'?
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:28pm PT
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Damn, I'm going to have to see this movie again. It's been at least 10 years. I'd forgotten how good it is.
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:31pm PT
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Blade Runner Party at Dirtbag's House!
10:00pm
BYOB
Will provide munchies
Origami contest afterwards
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:35pm PT
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dmt is right about the ending. the voiceover got put in because scott's first cut seemed so murky. and it's hard to remember now, but this film absoutely flatlined in its theatrical release. it lost dough hand over fist. it's also one of the few movies that had a journalist embedded in production, start to end. the book he wrote (paul scammon, future noir) is not deathless prose, but it's a pretty entertaining look into the sausage factory.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:39pm PT
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Followed by a showing of "An Inconvenient Truth." :-)
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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Mar 30, 2007 - 05:49pm PT
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Seems to have morphed into a SF chat.
Who's into Neal Stephenson? I totally love his books, especially Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon.
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:20pm PT
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Yes, too bad about the "Hollywood" ending. That form usually pisses me off.
Shawshank Redemption had another terrible ending--should have ended when Morgan Freeman breaks parole, as the point of that movie was the unconquerable nature of hope (not, it seems to me, that life has happy endings).
I remember watching Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon in the art-house pre-popular explosion and thinking, when the younger woman is riding back with the antidote to the poision, "if she makes it back in time, saves him, and everything wraps up nice," I'm gonna puke. One of the great thing about that movie is that there is NOT a Hollywood ending--unrequited love, the hero dies, the villan is victorious in a sense, some bad folks go unpunished, etc. Real life does not have a Hollywood ending.
Brian
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:22pm PT
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"THAT'S THE SPIRIT!!"
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robmo
Gym climber
San Francisco
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:22pm PT
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A bit of trivia about the original ending. That is left-over film from the fly-over footage at the beginning of the Shining.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:26pm PT
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Another aspect about BR, is the religious overtones at the very end. I read an essay years ago, and the writer brought out the theme of the crucifixion of Christ and how Roy put the nail through his hand, and at the end died yet at that very moment loved life so much as to allow the dove to live on, and forgave Decker, and let him look into his soul to see just for a moment who he really was. He just wanted to live. Kind of a spirit returning to heaven kind of scene, or life being born anew, or dying so that others may live.
There are all kinds of angles to this movie . . . deep, deep powerful stuff. Yea, I’ll have to watch it again soon too.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:39pm PT
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Rutger Hauer - recent
and
Daryl Hannah as Pris
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:49pm PT
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Dinner and a Movie at Dirtbag's House Tonight!
"An Inconvenient Blader Runner Truth"
8:30pm
Dinner Includes:
Mercury-filled toro sushi
Chinese noodles with umbrella
2-week old Dead Duck soup
Replicant snake steak
BYOB
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:53pm PT
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It's a date!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:57pm PT
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Yeah, the VO (marlowe-esque) version is the sh#t.
But, the part that makes that first quote Largo mentioned work, imho, is the "through YOUR eyes," segment.
"..." in the OP.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 30, 2007 - 06:58pm PT
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IF you want to talk religious overtones in Blade Runner, besides the obvious nail in hand and the release of the bird repping Roy's soul, well, back to the book again, there is a lot more made of religion, there was an important religion in the book, but the movie left out almost all of that for some reason.
Rumor has it that Dick did not live to see the final production, but he got to see bits during filming and really liked what he saw.
The movie is really about racism, or more broadly, discrimination.
BUt I hate shi-shi fru-fru artsy fartsy talk-- H3LL, Blade Runner is just Efffing great sci-fi. IT looked good (camera and lighting and sets), it had great action, great casting, and a great script. One sci fi movie they didn't Fvck Up, LOL.
Um, as long as we are quoting memorable lines from Blade Runner: "If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes."
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:00pm PT
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Now that would be fun, wouldn't it? Get a bunch of us in one place to watch that thing and drive each other crazy with our observations during the movie. hee-hee-hee!
I'm going to watch it tonight.
Wish I had the original "goopy-Brian-hates-hollywood-endings" one...have to settle for the gloomy one instead. :-(
C'est la vie.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:01pm PT
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Phillip k Dick novels will never have the same impact as movies as they do as books, Try as they keep doing. But, those flicks do give his works a bigger audience, and that is a good thing.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:04pm PT
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not to deviate from a great topic, bending it I suppose...
any Taxi Driver fans in the house?
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:10pm PT
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SOoooooo... In an effort to relate this to climbing (not that it has to)... Who has done the climb The Replicant?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:11pm PT
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As it's Friday night, maybe we should see Rocky Horror instead. Maybe not as deep as Blade Runner, but there are some things to think about from it, and it's a hoot.
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jeff_m
climber
Spice World
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:13pm PT
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Sam Lowry: "How are the twins?"
Jack Lint: "Triplets!"
Sam Lowry: "My how time flies..."
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:13pm PT
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i watch it once a month, and named one of my favirite roof problems here in flagstaff "travis bickle".
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:15pm PT
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cool bvb -
here's our man now...
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:17pm PT
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"Are you talking to me?
Are you talking to me??
Are YOU... talking to ME???
Well I'm the only one here."
Travis Bickel!!!!
Taxi Driver, the movie that inspired John Hinkley Jr. Gotta love Deniro in that one, back when he played characters that were so different from one movie to the next that you had to look twice to know it was him.
Come to think of it, sometimes I get the impression that there are a lot of Travis Bickel wannabes on ST, LOL.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:19pm PT
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2007 - 07:39pm PT
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Interesting replies . . .
I think the whole thing boils down to - "All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain . . ."
That's the existential question of the ages, that our we and our experience is temporary, and that some day all will be forgotten, washed away, like tears in rain. Out task on this earth is to resolve this basic fact within ourselves. Paradoxically, I believe we have to transcend ourselves to ever make any progress on this whopper.
JL
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 30, 2007 - 07:57pm PT
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There was some thing about the movie blade runner. I loved the music, so right after I watched it; I went on and downloaded the full soundtrack for free off Napster.
Now if you carefully listen to soundtrack and before you hear “All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain . .
You will hear “I see things ……
Now I have to go back and listen to it again to be certain but it was like, it says that I see thing like you never seen before…..
I felt like this movie or that part of the movie was given a code from the future, some thing out of time and I guess the whole movie was about that last part before you hear “All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain .
Listen to that part again John, if you do not have it, I can send it to you in MP3 via email
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 08:03pm PT
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Roy: "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the darkness at Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain. Time to die."
Brian
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 08:05pm PT
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Way cool Majid S,
RE:
"I felt like this movie or that part of movie was given a code from the future"
for me the metaphor in Bladerunner is that we ARE Pris and Roy, that we (humanity) are forever outraged at nature for giving us this (life) with the ability to know it will end, and that many of the ills that plague humanity are due to our collective inability to grasp and deal with this cruel reality, - our decline into old age and death.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 30, 2007 - 08:25pm PT
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Talking about climbing . . .
You know Decker did some pretty amazing "Buildering," and all with a broken trigger finger. Damn, that guy is hard-core.
And Roy was pretty buff wearing lycra like shorts if you ask me. I can only pick-up my son who is 4, the way Roy picked up Decker.
I don't know, but everything about the film is memorable. One in a million if you ask me. And just to think we are going to get another version . . . amazing.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 30, 2007 - 08:29pm PT
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Raydog
" I see things"
I guess, it ment, that I came from the end and I know what is happening over there and why are you doing this now here when you know the end. Anyway,I still think, the whole movie was about "like tears in rain"
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 08:37pm PT
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JL, Raydog--Absolutely in agreement with you there.
If you look at all our greatest conflicts--both internal and external--they could all be boiled down to this: Why?
Why this life? Why this time? Why this place? It all comes down to why are we here? And everyone asks it at some point or another--the great mystery of life. Not necessarily what is life--but why?
Religion corrals people with the answer: Basically, God got bored being all alone.
Science anulls people with the answer: All an accident of chemical compounds and electricity.
Psychology and Philosophy: Naw, no help there.
But Art, art let's us find our own answers. Look at where we've all gone with Blade Runner! A great movie, a great book, a great work of art...that's where we find why.
Be it metaphor or mirror, art allows us to know ourselves, and in the knowing, answer why.
Then again, maybe it's just Entertainment and it keeps all of us from obsessing about stupid, unanswerable questions...
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 30, 2007 - 08:45pm PT
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Hmmm, Did Long just say that life is a giant fast food burger?
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 08:46pm PT
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I think he might have...
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 30, 2007 - 08:55pm PT
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JL wrote:
" Out task on this earth is to resolve this basic fact within ourselves. Paradoxically, I believe we have to transcend ourselves to ever make any progress on this whopper.
JL"
Yep, that's what he said. OR maybe he meant, THE WORLD is a giant fast food burger. Better than an oyster, I guess.
At any rate, from now on, I will hold Burger King in a higher regard.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 30, 2007 - 10:16pm PT
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Great thread John,
Pretty much my all time favorite scene and quote, "tears in rain".
My parents and I watched the original, voice over, Blade Runner every Christmas for about 10-15 years. When I finaly got around to viewing the director’s cut, I felt that version wrecked it, diluted the viewers connection to the story, and stole the magic.
For me the potent emotional/intellectual response I get from the “tears in rain” sentiment is that of precious impermanence. So life's riddle as embedded in the theme isn’t at the outset as much a question of why, but of what, and that what is the sweetness of now, now, now, …then gone. And the notion of impermanence is a big driver in the theme, as it is for us as sentient beings. The voice over allows us to share and externalize our own ruminations and apprehensions along with Decker.
The aspect of life’s impermanence, especially when wrought upon a stark and intriguing back drop of sci-fi, brings into brilliant focus the tangible aspects of existence, but also a question of its reality arises and the replicant experience underscores that big enigma. What is real? How real is this whole gig when it seen as an impermanence? Are we all a bit of an illusion? What will we do with our time and for how long?
I find the why is introduced as love. I agree that some movies are trivialized by happy endings, but not this one. I felt the same way about the various endings of “Brazil”. With both Brazil & Blade Runner, you have this compelling but desperately bleak and oppressive theme noir running through your bloodstream, then a bit of light at the end is a liberating feeling. In both cases it involves a fruitful quest for the most potent of fleeting experience: love, which only briefly prevails upon the expansive blackness.
Cheers,
Roy
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Mar 30, 2007 - 10:54pm PT
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One xmas day my family (my mom, Bro's, sis in law, teenaged neice and Neph, my then new GF, Included) watched 'Orgasmo', no shit!
Lots of laughs, and bonding, but we have not continued the tradition.
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Brian
climber
Cali
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Mar 30, 2007 - 10:58pm PT
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Nice points Roy. I agree, by the way, that Blade Runner was not ruined by the ending the way I feel Shawshank was. After I dropped out of school (the first time), I moved to Japan. There are a whole series of meditations, poems, etc. that I fell in love with. The whole point of the Japanese admiration of the cherry blossom is the combination of beauty and impermanence. When the cherry blossoms bloom, the whole countryside goes off in a spectacular display; however, the first really stiff breeze that comes along strips away the flowers. Life is like these blossoms--at once incredibly beautiful and terribly fragile.
I also think John is onto something with respect to the transcendent (dare I say redemptive) power of art and beauty. It is true that I can look into the darkness of the night and my rationality can suggest that it, all of it, is just a cosmic accident of matter and motion, which is ultimately meaningless. However, it is also true that I can look into the same night sky and find myself overwhelmed with the majesty and beauty in a way that causes me to feel (rather than think) that something bigger is at work. We don't have to turn this into a thread about spirituality verus religion--Roy's comments about "love" and John's comments about "transcending" oneself are right on the mark.
I suspect I am not the only one here to literally shed a tear at the beauty--the incredible, magical beauty--of an alpinglow sunset. Or the only one to howl (barbarian yawp anyone?) across a valley at the moon. One of the many things I love about climbing is that it puts me in touch with these experiences. I remember one of my old partners, who is not the most spiritual or introspective person, walking back out of the Sierras as the sun set one summer evening. "Brian," he said, "we are so lucky to be here. We are so privledged to be climbers." No shit; true story... and he was right.
Brian
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Mar 30, 2007 - 11:10pm PT
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Interesting discussion...
Another movie quote that I always thought was pretty good came from the movie Star Trek:Generations (I think - the one with Malcom McDowell in it). In the movie he says:
"Time is the fire in which we all burn."
That always struck me as kind of a cool statement.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2007 - 11:32pm PT
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Roy, I think "love" is not so much the answer but the entire thing.Of course I don't mean rub-a-dub love (no harm there) or co-dependent love, but the divine article. I can't honestly say I know what that is quite yet, but my life seems to be driving toward finding out, somehow, someway, and I'm not finding the process to be particularly easy at this stage. There's so much inauthenticity to work through, it baffles and stuns me. But so it goes, I suspect for a lot of us.
From the level of the ego, I'm almost certain that basic human impermanance can never be integrated or mataboloized. You have to find that which is unborn and unchanging, and the tough part of that (unless I have this all wrong) is that you have to go through the impermanance to ever find the "other," which doesn't so much answer Roy Batty's questions as make it immaterial.
If there's some way to get there without staring down your own fear of death, or dealig with it in some way, I don't know how. And yet the fear of death, or any fear for that matter, can become a fixation and block us seeing part it.
Someone mentioned art as being a portal into the divine, and I agree. But I think the biggest portal of all is our very own being, as in human being. The problem is that to really settle into that being a lot of us have to work through a surface layer of chaos that is frightning and horrific.
It's 5.12 all the way but it's the only route worth the effort in the end.
JL
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 11:37pm PT
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RE:
"Someone mentioned art as being a portal into the divine, and I agree."
a portal into the subconscious as well hence the importance of surrealism in psychology etc.
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Mimi
climber
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Mar 30, 2007 - 11:47pm PT
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Never considered Deckard to be a replicant based on his intro in the movie. And I always thought the unicorn at the end represented Rachael; being 'the last one' and on the edge of extinction as it were.
Such a nice discussion here. Climbing brings us closer to the meaning of life so it's no surprise that so many of us would really enjoy this movie/book.
Interesting trivia from above too and it's interesting that the original version is not easy to find. I liked the original version with Dekard's VO and the ending. Here's a review by a fan with some more fun facts:
I think the only DVD that is released in the US is the director's cut...
Did you see the original version? It sucks. The studio said the film had too much silence in it, and they forced Harrison Ford to do the voice-over narration (against R. Scott's wishes). Ford did a shitty job on the voice-over INTENTIONALLY so the studio would be forced not to use it. The studio used the narration anyway. Other than that there is not too much difference between the film versions. This is the reason you do not see the version you are looking for (original). It is a substandard version of the film...
I believe that the theatrical version is available on laserdisc and/or VHS, so if you are desperate you could track one of these down and rip it (if you want to watch it in your home-theater). I think you are wasting your time-watch the director's cut again instead-there is alot of good stuff in there (it also shows off some bitchin' architecture in Los Angeles that many people-including Angelenos-don't know even exists)...
Edit: Went back to that fan site and apparently the LA city scenes are not different.
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L
climber
The Rebel L Gang
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Mar 30, 2007 - 11:58pm PT
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Just watched the Director's Cut--haven't seen it in a couple of years. Yep, many subtle hints that Deckard might be a replicant. Finally saw the correlation between the dream unicorn and the origami, too--although Olmos' VO really distracts from it.
And then there's all his photos on his piano...and you see throughout the movie how precious photos are to the reps.
Wow...it was like watching a whole new movie. And Roy's death scene...even more amazing.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 30, 2007 - 11:58pm PT
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more images
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 12:04am PT
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one more
Rachael
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 31, 2007 - 12:19am PT
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This thread has grown so quickly my head is spun; not sure if anybody referenced this bit, but there is a very poignant transcendence which occurs when Roy saves Deckard and Deckard’s voice over says something like, to roughly paraphrase: “maybe after struggling to save his own life, life suddenly had more value, not just his life, but anybody’s life.”
Who was it; Machiavelli perhaps wrote “the bond of enemies is sometimes greater than that of friendship”. That bond in some sense appears to be the portal to the final transcendence which Roy achieves when he decides to save not his own life, which is after all fading in the moment, and he turns 180 to save the life of the closest other, which perhaps not so ironically is the life of his opponent.
Your opponent is your teacher, as is adversity; both worth honoring, much in the way we honor the mountain for its intrinsic opportunity to a glimpse at transcendence.
Some rich stuff woven in to this flick.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 31, 2007 - 01:47am PT
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Ray
I emailed you the soundtrack,let me know what it says
Check out Rachael
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 01:54am PT
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at the start, Roy says "I've seen things"
and begins his monologue
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 01:56am PT
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Yes, Rachael
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 01:58am PT
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pretty sure it's
"I've....seen things people wouldn't believe"
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 31, 2007 - 01:59am PT
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Ray
He is talking about attack ship on fire....
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:05am PT
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Bladerunner reminds me
of the many
things about life
I can't comprehend,
and that I'll lose
the struggle
lose everything
and die and
accepting that
living with that
is what it
means to be a
human being.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:12am PT
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:13am PT
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those audio clips are really good, I'm...having some kind of an experience...
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:14am PT
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Like tears in the rain...
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:17am PT
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I got them all, every one of them
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:18am PT
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:23am PT
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Ray listen to Love
Very heavy, The best remix
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:23am PT
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Roy saves Deckard...
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:25am PT
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Ok
Ray, That was last song for now
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:32am PT
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and, the eye symbolism in Bladerunner
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:42am PT
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I am watching the eye and listening to songs, nice Ray
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:47am PT
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nice thread...really nice...
phillip k was ahead of his time, and more sane/crazy than any of us...imho, but i'm crazy ;) ...
some days i can still pick up the ancient alien satellites....
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Loomis
climber
Blava nie, ty kokot!
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Mar 31, 2007 - 02:57am PT
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So, it is years ago, and?...
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Mar 31, 2007 - 08:33am PT
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...music is banned (Radio Free Albemuth)
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wiclimber
Trad climber
devil's lake, wi
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Bump. So that it won't be lost in time, like tears in rain.
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marky
climber
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what's a "C-beam"?
BR is of course the best Dick film. Scanner is arguably D's best work, but the movie is hella lame
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Festus, I just read that oral history ... interesting stuff, I didn't know the film's making had been such an epic.
From the comments by author Phillip K Dick's daughter:
"Dad used to say that reality is that which, when you stop believing it, still doesn't go away."
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jstan
climber
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Deep stuff on here of late.
Several questions, like “tears in the rain”, keep resurfacing. Do we leave anything behind? So on. A hypothesis: we want to feel something has been left behind because such an answer might nelp us deal with the concept of death, something we are not yet able to handle.
Let me turn the question around. How will death handle us? Violent death, often for the young, must be simply “fast”. Hardly time to worry.
How about old age? If conscious, I suspect it is often just painful and lonely. All your childhood friends are already gone. And you are so disabled you know you will be “doing’ nothing more here.
During the last moments all of the things we talk about here, in all probability, are roughly handled by the realities.
Or so it would seem.
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jstan
climber
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Ack! This is getting grim. Try this:
"Morgan. Can I tell you a secret? I think you are a much stronger player than I was at your age."
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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wiclimber, thanks for the bump. Missed it the first time. Love that movie!
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xkyczar
Trad climber
denver
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Had forgotten about this thread.
Another vote of the original. Saw it twice on the big screen. Felt as though I could walk into the city through the screen during the opening scene.
"My mother? Let me tell you about my mother."
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marky
climber
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Just saw "The Final Cut" in the theater. It was good, but anticlimactic. A few thoughts:
1. Like others, I liked the ambiguity in the original release about whether Dekkard is human or replicant, as well as Dekkard's shakable conviction that he is human. In the Final Cut, it's pretty clear that Dekkard is a replicant, and the final scene seemingly shows that he at last realizes this.
2. "I want more life, f*#ker!" strikes me as a line as classic as any in cinema. Changing it to "father" strikes me as lame and weak.
3. I kind of liked the noirish voiceover. Sue me.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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The construct really benefits from the voice over; more texture, more signposting.
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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Did someone say "Film noir"?
"I hope they don't hang you, precious, by that sweet neck. Yes, angel, I'm gonna send you over. The chances are you'll get off with life. That means if you're a good girl, you'll be out in 20 years. I'll be waiting for you. If they hang you, I'll always remember you."
Couldn't let Gary's post slide by....Bogey to Mary Astor in The Maltese Falcon...so much great stuff in that flick... the look on Bogey's face as he advances on Peter Lorre, prior to cold-cocking him..."the stuff that dreams are made of"...
Any Ren & Stimpy fans out there? Peter Lorre ranting at Sidney Greenstreet as the prototypical Ren spaz-out...
Blade Runner is awesome sci-fi...I guess I fall into the scenic drive & voiceover fan category...Rutger's intonation in his dying speech really conveys his wonder & regret....great factoid that it was improv!
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Peter Lorre ranting at Sidney Greenstreet as the prototypical Ren spaz-out...
"You... you bungled it. You and your stupid attempt to buy it. Kemedov found out how valuable it was, no wonder we had such an easy time stealing it. You... you imbecile. You bloated idiot. You stupid fat-head you."
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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I also LOVE how Bogey keeps needling Wilmar, the 17-year-old-looking "enforcer"....
Anyone considering writing a screenplay should be required to study Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon & The Big Sleep...brilliant brevity, lines as crystalline as diamonds....
Peter Lorre was also f'ing brilliant....so many great characters, nearly all of whom elevated obsequious snivelling to a high art...
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