yates screamers

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marky

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 14, 2007 - 06:54pm PT
thinking of buying some screamers for ice and aid. Would the garden-variety Screamer be adequate for both, or should I buy the more specialized aid- and ice-specific screamers?
paganmonkeyboy

Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
Feb 14, 2007 - 06:59pm PT
I believe the ice and aid screamers have a lower activation threshold ? That would be a significant factor in which you should choose, imho...
atchafalaya

Trad climber
California
Feb 14, 2007 - 07:02pm PT
yates' website has all the details on screamers.
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
Feb 14, 2007 - 07:31pm PT
The Ice Screams have a tie-off built in so that the screamer can be used on the shank of the screw, in the manner you would use when tieing off webbing on the shank of a screw. This is actually really convenient.

Zippers are designed for long hard falls. They are smaller/more compact than the regular screamers. They are basically designed to take over where regular screamers leave off.

I'd say get a mixture of them. Maybe a few shorties/zippers for the first few bolts on a lead (ice or aid), where the fall factor will be higher, as well as some ice screams for the placements that will need to be slung.

For aid, I'd also recommend some Scream Aids for shakey hard aid placements.
climbrunride

Trad climber
Durango, CO
Feb 14, 2007 - 07:45pm PT
The Scream Aids activate at a much lower impact force, but also have a much lower ultimate strength for the tie-off loop. They also have a lower energy absorbing capacity, before getting to full-length and turning into a regular runner. So they might save you on really dicey little stuff that even a regular Screamer might allow to rip out.

Shorty Screamers, regular Screamers and Zipper Screamers all activate at the same impact force. The Shortys and regulars absorb about the same total energy before they turn into runners. Shortys might just be more convienient, if you prefer shorter style quick draws. The Zipper is for potentially HUGE loads, and can absorb much more energy. (Think 10 feet to a manky bolt or tiny, bad nut to begin the second pitch, then 20 more feet to the next piece.)

Regular Screamers are great for general use and substiture well for quickdraws. I like to carry two of them on trad/alpine routes. For ice climbing, I carry about four as quickdraws, plus an Ice Scream or two. That has the same energy absorbing characteristics, but lets you do the tie-off thing. I set it up as a quick draw, but clip the bottom biner into the top one so it won't hang too low off my harness. I save them for last, so I'll have them available in case a screw bottoms out. If not, I just use them as a standard quick draw.





OLD-SCHOOL EDIT: I also like the wild lycra sheaths from the 80's/90's. I feel like they help to keep the dirt and grit out of the webbing. Yates doesn't use them anymore, so I just recycle my old lycra sheaths when I get new screamers. I don't know if John Yates would recommend this or not. There might be some reason why he doesn't use lycra anymore. (Besides the whole style thing - rock climbing and lycra got divorced in 1993.)
Holdplease2

Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
Feb 14, 2007 - 07:58pm PT
Don't miss the Mammut "Shock Absorbers." They are made from spectra and are therefore far lighter than the Yates regular or shorty screamer. They are bartacked, rather than long stitches (hard to describe) so they "shudder" as they blow out.

I only carry the Mammut now as decreased weight and bulk make a difference if you want to carry 15 of the things. Rather than use the Zipper screamer, I'll just put two regular screamers in sequence if things are that grim. This way I don't have to drag some specialized screamer around.

Though the scream aids blow out at lower forces they also break at lower forces, so keep that in mind. Don't get lazy and start girth hitching these to nuts/heads or whatever. The 1/2 inch webbing will cut through on the wire before the thing even begins to activate. (NOT that I know... ;) ) Biners biners biners!

You can use the scream aids as tie-offs for pins, which is nice. But it better be a darn bad pin to make it worth it. If the pin is totally good, then you want your normal tie-off (Strong as can be) not a screamer that is going to blow out at 175 pounds and break just because you wanted to use it to tie off when the pin would have held 1000 pounds.

The best thing on the yates web site is talking about how you can use screamers in sequence to extend the time over which the screamers activate, further reducing your peak load when you do finally reach it. You can also use them in paralell to activate two simulataneously at double the load of a single screamer.

Tons of great info on the Yates site.

Hope this helps,

-Kate.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Feb 14, 2007 - 08:10pm PT
The Screamers with the tie off loops sound convenient, but are not worth buying. The tie-off loop goes the way of all tie offs and rapidly gets cut/frayed, and once it's begun to fray you kinda wonder if the loop might just break if you fall. One more thing to worry about when you are already full of fear. Better to use a real tie-off (or two) and add a regular Screamer underneath.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Feb 14, 2007 - 08:17pm PT
One of the more impressive things about Yates Screamers is how uniformly they blow because of how well done the stitching is. Compare that to the bumpy deployment of the bar-tacked Mammut ones. Every "bump" is extra force, right?

Check out the smoothness of the Screamer activation chart. Apologies for hotlinking an image slightly wider than 700 pixels.


One thing I no longer do is girth hitch Yates Scream-Aids directly to heads - I now use a crab. Kate clued me into that one, and she can tell you why......

Yates Gear rocks! Their fall arrestors are second to none. You can click here to [url="http://www.yatesgear.com/climbing/screamer/index.htm#1"]read more about Yates Screamers.[/url]

Highly recommended by Dr. Piton!
Holdplease2

Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
Feb 14, 2007 - 08:33pm PT
Pete, I think ewe'll find the Mammut aren't so baaaaaad, after all.

The bar tack blowing doesn't increase the force that the thing blows out at...each bar tack goes at something like 350-400 lbs at its individual peak.

Its just that there are micro-gaps between the tacks ripping out. Yates did it this way for a long time. If I said much more than that, I'd have to put on my Tall Boots, tho, as Im no physicist and would be talking sh#t from here on. :)

I also agree with crunch...how many tie offs do you clip and ruin during a wall? Tons. No big deal, though, as they're like 20 cents each. But you screw up the tie-off on a screamer and its 12 bucks you've screwed up.

-Kate.



tomtom

Social climber
Seattle, Wa
Feb 14, 2007 - 08:36pm PT
The advantage of shorty screamers is that they are less likely to catch on a crampon when hanging from the back of your harness.
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Feb 14, 2007 - 09:07pm PT
personally I think everyone should do their own screaming...
Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
Feb 14, 2007 - 09:38pm PT
The bar tack ones that Kate might be talking about (where the bartack goes across the webbing instead of long ways down the webbing) will give you a very exciting gate flutter on a carabiner during load.... if you hit the end of the screamer while the gate is open..... oh well... broken biner. I believe that is why Yates and WildThings quit making them that way. YMMV
rhyang

Ice climber
SJC
Feb 14, 2007 - 09:57pm PT
Shorty screamers are also more compact for 'alpine' stuff.

I have a partner who has some of the ice screamers and I hate them - they are so long that if racked from the harness you tend to trip on them. Annoying. Tying off ice screws is just not something I do.

Zipper screamers are meant for the first 1 or 2 placements off the belay, and absorb more force. Personally I have two of them. The rest are regular and shorties.
Holdplease2

Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
Feb 14, 2007 - 10:00pm PT
Hey Russ:

Good point...Do you think that gate flutter thing is an issue with wire gates, as well as regular gates?

-Kate.
Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
Feb 14, 2007 - 10:07pm PT
Wire gates are supposed to reduce or eliminate it somehow... less mass plus more spring strength??? Anyway, if you get a regular biner and bang it against your other hand you can hear the gate slapping. With a wire gate, I do not think you get this slapping. So at a minimum, I would suggest using the wiregates on any of those load limiting things... or lockers to be sure.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Feb 14, 2007 - 10:28pm PT
Kate,

I wooldn't have guessed such a thang. My baaaaaaaaaad....

Just like wellies outperform leather in certain sit-ewe-ations, so do wire gates outperform regular gates, especially when thangs are a rattlin' like a barnyard gate left open in the wind. A feller [or gal, by tarny!] can't go wrong with'n a whar gate on th'end of a Screamer, no sir.
P.Kingsbury

Trad climber
Bozeman
Nov 12, 2007 - 01:09pm PT
(old thread bump)

are the mammuts so much better that they can charge double for a screamer that yates has been making consistantly for years???

30 bucks seems like alot for a screamer (or is mgear just have a misprint??)...especially when you can score a yates for 12 bucks...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Nov 12, 2007 - 01:20pm PT
Ice screamers SUCK!!! they are too long, catch on sh#t. and heavy. Tying off screws dosen't work anyways, the nylon just cuts on the hanger. its a waste of energy to mess with a placement that bad in a situation where you are going to have to climb without falling anyways. I carry 6 reg screamers and 2 zipper screamers. The mamuts look sexy and light but have not seen the load specs on them and hate the price.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Nov 12, 2007 - 01:49pm PT
The potential for gate flutter is still present even in the Yates version: Look at the 0.1 second interval in the graph with tension varying from 200 to 500 lbs or so. The situation, will, of course, be much worse for the bar-tacks, with the tension plunging to near 0 before climbing back up to the next bar tack's breaking strength, so I think the Yates units are much better.

The activation level is low enough not to break any biners, even with the gate vibrated open, during screamer deployment. The rub happens when the screamer fully deploys and the job of fall energy absorbtion passes back to rope stretch. If the fall is a long one, the tension will climb back up, possibly to gate-open failure levels, and the vibration may have left you with an open or partially open gate.

The ideal solution, at least if you aren't aren't carrying a truckload of screamers, is to equip each screamer with Mal's (i.e. Trango's) nifty light lockers. If alot of screamers are going to be deployed, perhaps having some with lockers clipped to the more reliable pieces is the best solution, with wire gates on the others if possible.

PS: The Yates site is is not entirely clear about Screamer functionality. Don't expect them to help that much for long falls. Their effect is primarily useful for short falls on crappy gear.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Nov 12, 2007 - 02:11pm PT
We just use em as ice quickdraws. They cant hurt INMOP. Lockers not an option. You need em fast and dirty. Wiregates, Strong body and a delosional mind are all that is required.
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