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NutAgain!
Trad climber
https://nutagain.org
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 24, 2019 - 05:56pm PT
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I have an old roof that needs to be replaced in the next couple of years. I noticed the wind had blown off some shingles in a few places, so I googled up how to fix it and seemed easy enough.
My problem: do I have to carry the patch all the way to the roof apex? I have been trying to just lift up existing tiles to tuck in the repair patch under... but they are old and crispy and I think I’m making a spot to leak each time I use my wonder bar to lever up the old stuff. Just tucking in the new ones under that doesn’t seem water-tight. Is this the essence of when you need a new roof, when the old ones don’t have enough integrity to make a clean lift and re-seal over the new patch?
Is there another way where I can just do an ugly slather to seal over the highest most layer without having to tuck it under? My guy says that will fail because water will follow in the nail holes underneath wherever I try to coat it with sealant.
Given my current situation, is my best bet to just layer new tiles up to the roof peak and then rely on the metal flashing to seal over the top?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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May 24, 2019 - 06:02pm PT
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Your last sentence is correct.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 24, 2019 - 06:21pm PT
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I'm dealing with exactly the same issue here in Bishop- but mine aren't all crispy and fracturing. I did a bunch of splicing layers in on our rental house too. When they are flexible, you can pry them up and shove the new piece under and re-nail/glue it down with Henry's to keep the integrity without punching holes through... but if they are disintegrating the minute you put the bar under...maybe time for a new roof sooner rather later?
Edit to add: I guess if you are going all the way to the apex without going under the crispy tiles- the flashing will hold it for a while.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 24, 2019 - 06:38pm PT
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I had a wood shake roof
And the Station Fire came within 2 blocks
Also I had had a roofer do a tune up prior
Additionally I repaired one section myself (twice due to bad advice)
My repair did not leak
Anyway it was such a relief to have a good guy come in and do the tear off
And install a new guaranteed roof
Do not cheat yourself
Value your time and peace of mind
Get a new roof
Mine was around $12K
Well worth it
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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May 24, 2019 - 06:51pm PT
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Think like a drop of water or many and you will find your answer. I'm not a roofer but worked sheet metal and gutter systems. If they are breaking or are crispy, you are losing the seal that comes with the down hill and in a way the uphill edge. In my opinion you'll drive yourself nuts.
Just redo it.
Homeowners insurance may cover most of the cost. It's in their interest.
My 2 cents...
S,,,,
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 24, 2019 - 07:03pm PT
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I doubt it regarding insurance covering it
It would have been in the best interests of everybody to get rid of my wood shakes
Me
The neighbors
The insurance co
The firefighters
...
But insurance would have no part of it
Funny thing
That shake roof lasted sixty years
Almost as long as me and Donini
Trim any overhanging tree limbs
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 24, 2019 - 07:08pm PT
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Oh fuk...do I attempt a hybrid post on roof repair and posting while drunk on Friday night?
Stand by....
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 24, 2019 - 07:10pm PT
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^Try to remember what you are doing dude
BTW
The guy who I was told dynamited Ooli Rock has assured me it was not him
Which leaves us wondring
This was a while back
But I remembered back when contractors and carpenters bragged about doing puss work
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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May 24, 2019 - 07:16pm PT
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You're probably f*#king up the paper underneath which actually does the majority of the actual water proofing.
Your framing can handle up to 3 layers of roofing. If you have one or two layers, just go over the whole thing with new felt and shingles (such an easy solution from my glass of wine). You'll need to remove some of the flashings and drip edge.
You tube my friend.
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Treezypoof
Trad climber
Cyberia
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May 24, 2019 - 09:17pm PT
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Start by going to the store and getting an Estwing PB-18. Beware of the Dasco imitation.
That's the bar you need to gracefully remove the old nails.
Drive it UNDER the shingle at the nail until the nail is set in the notch and then whack the bar and the nail AND shingle will pop up. Remove the bar and get it under the head of the nail ON TOP of the shingle, and pop the nail out. Now you can remove damaged tile and insert new one.
You don't want to be ripping the old shingles off the nails.
Cement the last row of replacements instead of nailing.
If it's too brittle for this process, you need a new roof.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
https://nutagain.org
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Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2019 - 09:48pm PT
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Thanks gang.Especially thanks contractor for the beta re: the felt. Treezypoof, thanks for the tool tip too- I was thinking something with a flatter angle might be gentler in the existing tiles and decrease the chance of me damaging them. Wonderbar is not ideal.
I’m just looking for a sloppy stop-gap that will last a year or two. Then planning to do some major overhauls including moving a chimney, maybe raising a roofline for a taller garage, replacing the rotted wood of the external edge rafters (don’t know what is th speller name for those)., etc.
And then solar all over, maybe go with solar shingles if there is an economical and viable
product by then.
I do enough work sitting in front of a computer, that it feels good to hold a hammer in my hand and feel the sun and wind on my back and look around at the view. Sort of like climbing! Lets just hope I don’t cause more damage than I fix :)
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Bobbleseth
Trad climber
Utah
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May 24, 2019 - 10:24pm PT
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"I doubt it regarding insurance covering it"...
Mine did...(no specific damage other than it was old, leaking, crispy)
Covered it fully...
Then they canceled the policy...
A$$holes!!!...
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 24, 2019 - 10:36pm PT
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My insurance has doubled over the past 15 years - basically from buying roofs for my neighbors - often from aholes who go door-door to "inspect for damage", often with a willingness to inflict it in the process to make a claim. Get a job, people. IMO, roofs should not be covered by insurance.
Back to Nut's roof - it looks like sh#t - way past due. I wouldn't do any of that lift a shingle and blend thing, it looks about 15 years too late for that. It would probably leak regardless if you tried this, everything you touch will crack. I would continue what you started all the way to the ridge or top, roll out some metal, right over the top of the old metal and all else, nail it, goop over the nails, etc.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 25, 2019 - 01:06am PT
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To cut in a shingle patch in you really need one of these for removing old shingles and cutting nails under the row of shingles where you want the patch to stop on the roof:
Roofing Slate Ripper Bar (ignore the slate part)
That said, you need a new roof...
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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May 25, 2019 - 05:01am PT
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I'm in the 19th year of 30 year shingles and they are starting to deteriorate. A lot of the ceramic granules have washed off due to some of the horrific rainfall we have had at times in the last 5 years. The subtropical climate in the South is not shingle friendly. Extreme heat, fluctuating winter temperatures (20° one day, 75° the next doesn't help.
I will probably have to replace the roof within the next 3 years at a cost of $6000 at current labor and material costs.
For now I am gluing the shingles that are starting to lift and curl. It works. Contrary to what I read about doing it in cooler temperatures, I find it easier to do it in warmer weather than the advised cooler weather. The shingles are much more pliable and less likely to tear. I did some recently on a 90° day.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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May 25, 2019 - 05:12am PT
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My insurance has doubled over the past 15 years - basically from buying roofs for my neighbors
The actual reason is unneeded and draconian "codes" being piled up, not to mention "minimum sq footage requirements" from tax-greedy powers and HOAs, which makes houses unrealistically expensive. Plus, issuing of building permits in high natural hazard risk areas. And the housing price inflation (not that any real value was added), from dollar inflation and allowing to sell RE to foreigners - here goes insurance price inflation. Oh and one can't get a loan on a house with old roof, thanks to a couple of now government-owned entities' regulations, so one can hardly sell it - so getting the roof covered is a fair game since the whole system is a racket.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 25, 2019 - 06:34am PT
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@Contractor- A random side story about the follys of roofing over roofing ...
A builder-friend hanging at out house glances over at our separate garage and say- hey- have you noticed your garage is bowing ? -(points out that all the exterior walls are noticeably bowing outwards) the ridge of the roof looks like a swayback horse as well.
Inspection reveals insufficient 2x4 framing and (4) FOUR layers of asphalt shingles as well as interior ceiling drywall adding so much weight the roof is in danger of collapse. Evidently the large tree blocking the driveway prevented backing a truck up for shingle removal so they just kept adding over 50 years.
With every layer we ripped off you could visibly see the walls straighten up and the ridge of the roof return to level. It was wild. Ditched the drywall . Added 2x8 reinforcement and it was all good. I did- however , have to spend 2 weeks with a wheelbarrel ... in August ... hauling a million tons of heavy as debris 100 feet to a dumpster. Not so good:(
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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May 25, 2019 - 07:00am PT
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Lots of caulk. Not gobs but strategic.
How important are your fingers? Sometimes I'll use the sawzall with a looong blade on a few nails under the top side to let me slide metal flashing (or a shingle) under the shingles at the top of the patch.
Most roofers will work for meth and coors.
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WBraun
climber
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May 25, 2019 - 07:52am PT
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Don't listen to these clueless people here.
When roof goes bad just use chainsaw and cut whole roof off.
No more roof problems and one will then have clear view of the wonderful sky above ....
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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May 25, 2019 - 07:55am PT
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Just an fyi when you decide to replace the roof. Deal directly with a roofing company. I went to Home Depot and they contracted with one of their roofers. big mistake.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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May 25, 2019 - 08:08am PT
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Have to be careful with those roofers too... many crooks
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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May 25, 2019 - 08:08am PT
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WBraun
climber
May 25, 2019 - 07:52am PT
Don't listen to these clueless people here.
When roof goes bad just use chainsaw and cut whole roof off.
No more roof problems and one will then have clear view of the wonderful sky above ....
The rescue duck is finally right about everything. Get a tent(for shagging), sleep outside and trade gross materialist illusion for a true view of your place in the swircle of life. Rooftop bivies are transcendent as. And free up valuable housing for domestiques.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 25, 2019 - 08:58am PT
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Have to be careful with those roofers too... many crooks
This is my opinion of the current state of ALL the trades. It's fuking savage out there - pile of money on the table and unless you've got considerable experience, these guys will come in with the upper hand in putting as much of that money in their pocket for as little as possible in return as they can get away with, and then some. The types posting to the Show Me What You're Building thread are the 0.01%.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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May 25, 2019 - 09:09am PT
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And there're fakes out there lying that they're licensed and insured that will stop contact if you ask for concrete details. I knew someone who hired one of those without doing the checking - they stole the materials (which were purchased by the homeowner), did a crap job which resulted in new roof leaking all over immediately and they disappeared into the thin air right after finishing.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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May 25, 2019 - 11:01am PT
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Like Werner said, when you remove the roof give me a call, I spent 30 years on top of burning houses and buildings with a a chainsaw cutting roofs off.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 25, 2019 - 11:30am PT
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It ain’t rocket science! Doing yer due diligence in vetting the loozers ain’t either. At least in Cali you can look them up easily. While the state contractors’ board will tell you whether they are licensed and bonded they can not tell you if they’re a crook.
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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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May 25, 2019 - 03:11pm PT
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When you do get a new roof consider going metal longer warranty. Fairly easy to do yourself if you purchase the right tools and way more fire resistant.
My grandfather was a roofer. He would never put more than three layers. Some areas only allow two. In some areas you can put metal right over shingles.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 25, 2019 - 04:15pm PT
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Nuthin' like smokin' a good roofer !
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john hansen
climber
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May 25, 2019 - 04:57pm PT
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I helped a friend with a small beach house on the North shore about 28 years ago. It was an old style single wall house built in the 30's and there were over 15 layers of various types of roofing, mostly the roll out stuff that is like a shingle only 3 feet wide and 25 feet long.
Almost filled a 20 ft dumpster. The main wall running down the center of the house had a 2 inch gap at the top where it had separated from all the weight. After we removed it all we jacked up all the perimeter posts and
it came back together.
My Boss and future partner told me, never get involved in condo's,,,
Everyone ends up suing every one. Good advice from a very wise man.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 25, 2019 - 07:34pm PT
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No second roofs allowed here - you have to strip bare, ice and water shield, drip edge, 90mph shingles, etc., it’s the only right way.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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May 25, 2019 - 07:51pm PT
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The bone head home owners board re-roofed the project with a 15 year paint job on the metal roofing ....16 years later they try to sue the roofer ( who originally insisted they buy the 30 year paint job ) because the color of the metal roofing has disappeared.....The roofer got off the hook and the stoopid LA know-it -all’s have to re-roof the whole project...Drooling idiots...Sorry for the thread drift nutagin....
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HeschMonster
Trad climber
Morro Bay
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May 27, 2019 - 09:59pm PT
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Nut, i left a note on your site but to double post, you're welcome to give a ring to talk about it... I've prob only experienced 80-100 roofs but could prob steer you in the right direction- as most have alluded, you need a new roof. Borderline possible to stave off the work for a few months but honestly you need to get it done, period. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the internal damage caused by one good leak will cost far more than any short term savings by putting it off a few months.
cheers, CH~
8zero5 4five8 6five78
also, you owe me a beer or a belay for the consultation fee ;)
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