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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 21, 2019 - 06:46am PT
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Sure income matters but what about the quality of life? Last Friday it took me 3.5 hours to go from the Harbor/UCLA medical center to Fontana and this was before the so called rush hour. Every one of the several freeways I used was absolutely chocked with traffic.
I know that I’m spoiled, the county I live in has one traffic light, but, seriously, what strategies do people employ to endure daily, horrific commutes? I want to try the drugs you’re using.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 21, 2019 - 06:54am PT
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Easy. Just kill your soul, one stop-and-go minute at a time. It's a horror show.
BAd
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:20am PT
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Jim, you drove right by my house, I’m about 15 min from Fontana.
I don’t know how people do it. As you know, I’m retired, so I plan my excursions around the traffic patterns. That route - from UCLA to Fontana is clicking in right now at 63 miles in 1 hr 6 min. It’s a Sunday AM. But it’s the commute direction and on a Friday, any time after noon, 3 hrs doesn’t surprise me.
Happy Easter! Phyl
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:23am PT
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Buses (a whole other nightmare), music, books, and patience. UCLA to Fontana could be hard, but if you're driving in LA while you can see the sun, you're doing it wrong. Get an alpine start.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:31am PT
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Just see big badass climbers end up in LA and cry like girls ......
:-)
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:34am PT
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San Francisco is worse IMO. LA ... it's about timing and knowing the many alternate freeways- but sometimes you are just screwed. It's the most annoying and striking difference coming from Bishop. I don't miss it a bit.
I work I both cities seasonally- I have to make a Zen mental adjustment to the fact Im just going to be sitting in traffic. Nothing I can do but put on the radio and think happy thoughts. When I do shopping trips to Stanton - I'll leave 2 hours earlier than necessary just to NOT be sitting in traffic- even if it means having to sit in a crappy diner for a couple hours waiting for the wholesaler to open.
I do not understand all those people who commit to that mass traffic commute every day to work. I couldn't do it. My dad did though. We lived in the Santa Monica's north of the Ventura county line and he worked at Elizabeth Learning Center in Cuttahay (hellhole middle of the city) 3 hours each way every day. He built our house before he got transferred to that school- we lived in a beautiful remote place and he didn't want to move so he dealt with the drive. It wasn't great for his quality of life though. His health got bad, I never saw him on weekdays - his marriage blew up and the house he worked so hard on was lost in a forced sale during the divorce
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:44am PT
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The American Dream
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:47am PT
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So we can have cool jobs Don dude!
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:55am PT
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And how many people here actually know about the "green screen".
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:58am PT
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I like my 5 mile quiet commute along the lake to my job
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 21, 2019 - 08:00am PT
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3.5 hrs from Harbor/UCLA to Fontana? What were YOU on?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 21, 2019 - 08:04am PT
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If you measure it - as most modern cars do - they have timers since last fill-up or some-such, commuting is a huge chunk of your life.
Mine’s 20 mins through mostly horse farms - still works out to average 6-8 hours per week including lunch and errands - and I don’t like that - I’d like to reduce it to 5-10 mins - on a bike.
Yeah - I don’t understand 1+ hour commutes through traffic - I’d move and/or find another job.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 21, 2019 - 08:17am PT
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At 3.5 hrs. You could have taken the Durango to Silverton bullet train....
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 21, 2019 - 09:16am PT
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It's a shame this country can't do urban transportation better. It's been a while since I've been there, but I remember liking the Paris train and Metro system a whole lot more than LA freeways.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 21, 2019 - 09:27am PT
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My first real job was in sw CT near the NYC mess... 1 hour and 50 minutes each way in bumper to bumper nonstop inching.
Drove me f'ing nuts.
That lasted about a year before a similar job but a 5 minute commute that could be done on a bike in 30. The difference in my quality of life and stress level was immeasurably better.
Unless it's f'you money and you can make a fortune in 5 years or less... it ain't worth it.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Apr 21, 2019 - 09:37am PT
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This is a LA traffic politics thread...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 21, 2019 - 09:39am PT
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I was born in LA, and spent virtually all of my life in this corner of the country- dealt with LA traffic a lot. As mentioned, it's about timing, knowing alternate routes, and watching your traffic app.
The most effective strategy, however, is simple: stay the hell out of LA.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 21, 2019 - 09:48am PT
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LOL, Marlow!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 21, 2019 - 09:51am PT
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Well, for one thing, stay the F out of Fontana! What were you thinking?
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Apr 21, 2019 - 10:25am PT
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Jim, Gary is right. Man, you picked the worst route.
Los Angeles is a place to learn to deal with. If you come here without a guide it's a real jungle. The Uber & Lyft drivers know the way.
I LOVE LA and could live just about anywhere at this point. After being here over 40 years it is dear to me. The smog has been long gone for decades and now it just smells like California.
As others have said there is a strategy to when you go where.
Some tips:
Never try to go anywhere on a Friday afternoon or evening. 20 minute drives will take 2 hours.
Use Burbank airport not LAX
Go to Point Dume, NOT Redondo Beach
If you have to go across Hollywood use Fountain Ave
If you have to go to LAX take La Brea to Stocker.
Always use the 2 freeway. It's faster by far.
People who live in Long Beach, San Pedro and Torrance are completely cut off from the rest of So Cal by heavy traffic.
If you want to get to the mountains take the 10 to the 110 to the 5 to the 2 to the 210.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 10:30am PT
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Damn Jim, wish I knew you were in the neighborhood, would have made an effort to see you. Next time here, let me know,I’ll see if I can call in some favors and have the Marines send in a chopper to lift you and car to any destination you please!
Peace and Happy Easter to you and Angela
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 21, 2019 - 10:59am PT
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First, it requires planning. You did not drive from Harbor/UCLA to Fontana......I say that because you presumably don't live at Harbor UCLA.
Somehow, you got there, first.
My point is that we do have rather reasonable mass transit options, but you have to plan them out.
For example, if you were staying in Fontana, you could drive to the Metro station in Azuza, and park your car, take the subway all the way to Harbor/UCLA, about 2 hours, costs about a dollar. Return the same way, same time frame. BUT you can read, listen to music, engage in interesting conversations.
Second, timing. It is hard to imagine a worse time to do this than friday afternoon.....commute goes on for the entire afternoon. Better to go have an interesting ethnic dinner, do some reading in the library, and let things settle down......or even better, plan your trip so you are not travelling these hours.
Third, Google Maps. When you are stuck having to fight through the traffic, find the best route. It makes a huge difference.
On Wed, I had to drive to San Diego, right through downtown LA. Thurs, return. on both, I had no more than about 5-10 extra minutes due to traffic, over my non-traffic 2-1/2 hour drive each way. But that is because I timed it right.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 21, 2019 - 11:15am PT
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The people who take a beating are commuters. I don't know how someone can spend four or more hours a day driving in traffic. It's really criminal that Jerry Brown pushed the state to spend billions on his failed train project when the $ could have been spent usefully on functional transit in L.A. The pro high speed rail folks will tell you that every other advanced country has it. I will tell you that every city of any size worth living in has functional mass transit. "Worth living in" is subjective, but you see my point. When it comes to moving people around without cars, L.A is in the stone age.
For the rest of us who don't commute, but have to get around, Spider and Ken have it right. I'd add that I look at sigalert.com before I drive anywhere. There are almost always alternate routes.
Long Beach to Fontana on a Friday afternoon? Fergeddaboutit. Sorry you had to go through that.
One last thing. If you like to get out of town on a regular basis to climb, do not live in the center of the city. Live on the perimeter, if you can.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 12:04pm PT
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Marlow says -- This is a LA traffic politics thread
What's wrong with you? Are you a narc/brown noser .....
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L
climber
Just livin' the dream
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Apr 21, 2019 - 12:26pm PT
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Spidey: The smog has been long gone for decades and now it just smells like California.
Friend, I lived in West LA & Santa Monica for over 25 years. There was/is always smog. That close to the ocean and still you could see it when you got up high enough, or smell it on a summer day, or clean you windshield and see the black gunk.
I think perhaps your olfactory & visual senses have been disabled by it.
Thankfully I left 5 years ago. The stress of so much & so many in one place almost did me in.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Apr 21, 2019 - 12:43pm PT
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WBraun: Not to my knowledge...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 21, 2019 - 12:47pm PT
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Never had traffic issues when I was on the USC rowing team and flunked all my classes....
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Apr 21, 2019 - 12:53pm PT
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What's wrong with you? Are you a narc/brown noser .....
WBraun: Not to my knowledge...
He’s obviously in poor fund of knowledge, eh Werner? ; )
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 12:57pm PT
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I take acid. I drop 30 minute before I leave, then 8 hours later I am coming down and pulling up to my destination. It works perfectly
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Trump
climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 02:02pm PT
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Topos. Not for the first traverse, but after that, avail yourself of others’ knowledge. Google maps is a good navigation tool for that kind of thing. Try not to travel in the worst traffic. Get an alpine start.
Push comes to shove though, you know, some folks think a bivy below freezing is suffering. But we know better. Or maybe just different.
Try not to suffer unless you enjoy it.
Or if you do find yourself suffering, try to reframe it in your head as a task that you’ve chosen for yourself to do in service to something you want for yourself, to have some discretionary resources, or better health, or feel like you’re a good person, or whatever. And if you find that it’s not that, then don’t do it.
Know yourself. If you don’t like the cold, don’t set yourself up for an alpine bivy. A lot of other people get really good at that kind of thing by just not taking the risk. If you don’t like traffic, don’t set yourself up to be stuck in traffic.
Best of luck all!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Apr 21, 2019 - 02:12pm PT
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After I finished my residency, I tried to move back home to LA. I had been away for 15 years. I interviewed at various hospitals in the city.
I remember getting grid-locked at an intersection for 4 hours.
I remember being on a 10-lane freeway at 2:00 a.m., and it was a parking lot in both directions as far as the eye could see.
Fuk dat chit.
Instead I moved to West Virginia. Kinda reminded me of NorCal in the 70s. The only traffic delays are waiting for snapping turtles or turkeys to cross the road. Got me a mountain girl and never looked back.
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Apr 21, 2019 - 02:12pm PT
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Yup. Get a midsize motorcycle. Lane splitting is legal and safe if approached as art. Thousands upon thousands of Bay Area miles and nary a clip.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Apr 21, 2019 - 03:41pm PT
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Ditto to the motorcycle! I wish everyone rode one and we would have fewer problems. I have a capable 650. I live in SD but its a game changer with lane splitting. A bit hair raising some times but I'm my own traffic pattern. Mostly folks move out of your way. I feel very bad for all those people in cars as I just ride through the I 805 parking lot and get home in 15 minutes. I get 60 mpg to boot.
S....
VVV I always have a tail wind...flatulence...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 21, 2019 - 04:13pm PT
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You get 60mpg on a 650? Downhill both ways with a tailwind?
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johntp
Trad climber
Punter
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Apr 21, 2019 - 04:37pm PT
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Like anything else, one just gets used to it.
For 15+ years had a 45 mile commute each way from far north OC to far south OC on the 57 and 5 freeways. Spent about 2.5 - 3 hours/day on those blasted freeways. When gas was running around $5/gallon my monthly fuel cost was around $600/month. It got worse when they decided to convert lanes to HOV and toll lanes.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 04:44pm PT
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Sierra Ledge Rat gets it.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Apr 21, 2019 - 04:48pm PT
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You think LA is bad, you should try driving in the city of Buenos Aires.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 21, 2019 - 05:03pm PT
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Hear you klaus.
One of many reasons I miss Dan. He foresaw the mess and 30+ years ago moved us and our 4 kiddos to rural north San Diego County. Our area here is still pretty good. I-15 can be tough for commuters like my son, but he moved closer to his job.
I've done a real time life evaluation in the past 11+ years.
Results: Keep life simple, no need for expensive homes or toys. This sets a great example for your kids and friends.
Never work at a job you don't love.
Every day when you open your eyes:
+Thank God for this fresh new day.
+For your loved ones, family and friends.
+For the fact (at least a few of these will apply) that you can move, smell, see, taste and hear.
+For the fact that you have hot water, a roof, a mode of transportation, clothing.
Well you get the point. I could go on and on. But the rat race is lost from the time you leave the starting line.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 05:14pm PT
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Sure income matters but what about the quality of life? Last Friday it took me 3.5 hours to go from the Harbor/UCLA medical center to Fontana and this was before the so called rush hour. Every one of the several freeways I used was absolutely chocked with traffic.
That is pretty good time Jim
But why go to Fontana
Oh you weren't running
Sorry
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 21, 2019 - 05:16pm PT
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you should try driving in the city of Buenos Aires.
Boy, howdy! One cab ride there with Juan Fangio was memorable!
“We don’t need no steenking lanes aqui!”
My sources tell me Beijing trumps ‘em all.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 05:36pm PT
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One time I'm down there drivin on Lincoln Blvd Santa Monica and these two local dudes pull up at the stop light and ask what the cool noise coming from my Jeep Cherokee.
I told them it's the studded tires on all four tires (it's February that day).
They asked where can we get some lol .....
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2019 - 06:10pm PT
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I went to Fontana because I was trying to get out of that godforsaken town and I 15 went thru it on the way north. At that point the traffic ahead was gridlocked and I gave up. I got a motel and got up at 4:00 am and the traffic was doable.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 21, 2019 - 06:33pm PT
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Timing, timing, timing. It's everything.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2019 - 06:42pm PT
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If timing was everything how come all of the locals who were clogging up the freeways all got it wrong?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 21, 2019 - 06:42pm PT
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LA is loaded with sheep, like everywhere else. Don't be a sheep.
Edit: Like several have mentioned, the key is getting to know the traffic flow in the parts of LA you have to be in, then plan your travel around it- either avoid the high traffic flows altogether (best option), or try to plan to be moving the opposite direction at the peak travel time.
My preferred strategy, by far, is to just avoid peak flow times completely. If you find your timing to be off, find a place to kill time until it lightens up- get something to eat, do some errands, etc. Way less stressful than sitting in your rig going nowhere...for hours.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 21, 2019 - 07:17pm PT
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Spider Savage, UBER & LYFT DRIVERS do not know the way to save driving time.
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Trump
climber
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Apr 21, 2019 - 08:56pm PT
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My best strategy is to try to not need things I’m gonna need to complain about having to pay for.
But I’m not all that convinced that complaining detracts from quality of life - probably more the opposite. Those locals are probably just complaining about it on a different website.
Me? I have the intellectual and moral foresight to like chocolate, but some sheeple people prefer that god forsaken vanilla.
I wonder why I need to frame my own choices as superior to other people’s choices? These shared values prolly play well in our little tribe.
If you’re blessed to have a life you like, live that one. If you want to learn firsthand how to live with traffic, go for it! Other people seem like they’ve been able to manage that one and I’ll bet you can too.
Other peoples lives don’t need to make sense to us, they just need to make sense to them. Our opinions of other people’s lives and other people’s choices maybe doesn’t matter quite as much as we think it might.
But if we want to understand them in a positive optimistic approving affirming way - if we want to understand what’s right with other people rather than what’s wrong with them - maybe we can understand them, if we try.
But it’s always a lot easier to not understand, maybe like it’s easier to get stuck in traffic than it is to avoid it.
Heck, even I, like you, have been stuck in traffic.
And while we’re stuck in traffic, maybe best to confirm our own choices and our tribes choices as superior. When winter comes, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. But maybe we want to give more of our approval to ourselves than believing that about ourselves would entail.
It’s a premier climbing site - let’s talk about the traffic. Makes enough sense to our little tribe for us to do it. Ok.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 21, 2019 - 08:59pm PT
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Nice shot Jeff....
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 12:03am PT
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People mostly commute for one of these reasons:
1. Perceived economic necessity... they have a family to support, want to be further from urbanity (noise/crime/people density), but must travel to wherever they can get a job. Maybe bought a house in one place closer to where they worked , kids have friends there, but then job changes.
2. People have a passion for a career choice (e.g. entertainment industry, cancer research, building aerospace technologies), and there are few choices where they can follow that passion. Either they live in a challenging place near the job (e.g. K-town might seem fun as a 20-something person into partying, but quickly gets old if you want to walk to school with your kids), or pick a good neighborhood to raise a family (as far away as you can stand to drive)while also keeping the job that excites the career passion, then pay for it with commute time. Or, maybe a couple each with career passions have jobs in opposite directions with limited options, neither wants to sacrifice their career calling, so they buy a house in the middle and commute in opposite directions.
I feel lucky getting paid well enough while working from home, looking out from South Pasadena toward the northern San Gabriels, the Verdugo Hills, the Santa Monica’s, and all the way to the hills north of Ojai (near Ventura and Santa Barbara) on a clear day... but my wife crosses downtown LA twice daily because she needs to be there in person to run a research lab, oversee the work of post docs and PhD students and undergrads, and occasionally teach classes. She manages by shifting her work schedule, going in ~10am or later and working from home before that, then coming home ~10pm (sometimes earlier sometimes later depending on her current deadlines). That works for now, but with kids in the picture it would force her toward normal commute times and she would spend a larger chunk of time in traffic. With kids she would probably have morning time with them and then not see them awake in evenings on weekdays.
That’s a price to pay for being attached to an intellectual endeavor (with the opportunity to expand human knowledge and change human experience) more than a lifestyle. Folks who don’t have that attachment don’t get it, just like most of our non-climbing family and friends don’t get the fascination with climbing.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 22, 2019 - 02:07am PT
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i start from here and rarely arrive
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2019 - 06:13am PT
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Yeah hooblie....the traffic was pretty light when I went thru Williams on I 40.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 22, 2019 - 08:35am PT
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It's an incredible city full of incredible people from the all over the world. They bring their food and music with them.
I live a 10 minute drive from one of the most incredible art collections in the world.
It's a short train ride to one of the best concert halls and orchestras in the world.
At the same time, I live at the base of a mountain range with 8-10,000' peaks. I can walk out my door with a backpack on and walk those mountains for days. If I wanted to, I could walk to Canada from my house and never leave trail.
I can fish for native rainbow trout in the midst of big horn sheep only 25 miles from downtown Los Angeles.
Are their many other cities like it?
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
California
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Apr 22, 2019 - 10:27am PT
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"At the same time, I live at the base of a mountain range with 8-10,000' peaks. I can walk out my door with a backpack on and walk those mountains for days. If I wanted to, I could walk to Canada from my house and never leave trail."
Many folks don't realize LA is a mountain town. I dont like the whole but i can tolerate parts. The San Gabes make it tolerable for sure
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 22, 2019 - 10:36am PT
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1. Perceived economic necessity... they have a family to support, want to be further from urbanity (noise/crime/people density), but must travel to wherever they can get a job. Maybe bought a house in one place closer to where they worked , kids have friends there, but then job changes.
The great majority of people who commute into L.A. from places like Landcancer, Palmdale, and the Inland Empire do so because their job is in L.A., but they cannot afford housing there. The heinous traffic is due to the lack of usable transit, and the cost of living in the city.
Edit:
Friend, I lived in West LA & Santa Monica for over 25 years. There was/is always smog
Were you here in the 80's? Most cars had no pollution controls. There was no attempt to moderate what came out of the tailpipe. It was a rare day after a big storm that you could see the mountains from Pasadena. Eye watering. Smog alerts; stay inside, don't go out for a run. The improvement has been amazing.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 22, 2019 - 11:41am PT
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The improvement has been amazing.
Indeed! Even my ultra-libertarian friend has admitted that the Clean Air Act wasn't so bad an idea.
edit: Oh, shit! Is that political?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 22, 2019 - 11:44am PT
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Over the past five years, Portland has graduated from a town to a real city and is developing serious traffic issues and Seattle has always been a nightmare. I suspect all the cities up and down the entire west coast are now a royal pain in the ass to get around.
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capseeboy
Social climber
wandering star
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Apr 22, 2019 - 11:45am PT
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^^^^^Gary.
uh, well, yes it is. D'oh!
Me, a Brown knowser all.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 11:48am PT
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How can u talk about traffic without going off the deep end?
Just sat at a number of lights with a dozen cars waiting spewing for one car to cross. Retarded city planners put a stop sign or light in as often as possible cause that’s job security. Drove 2000 miles in Norway last summer and stopped at maybe 10 lights. Can’t remember a stop sign. Roundabouts would save hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil DAILY in the US, not to mention the smog and brake particulates.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Apr 22, 2019 - 12:19pm PT
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One other reason for California commutes being so special:
Many people have owned their home long enough that if they moved,
their property taxes would go up by two-fold, or four-fold, or eight fold, or up to 15 fold.
So the state is subsidizing them by $1000 to $20,000 per year to stay put, and endure the commute. There are hardly any toll roads.
Due to perverse incentives of prop 13,
my neighbor moved back to California when he inherited a minimal 888 sq ft house. He paid nothing for the house. His property taxes are $550 per year. If he sold the house the new owner would pay at least $7200 per year in taxes alone. The same scale is true for more costly homes.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 22, 2019 - 12:20pm PT
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Ditto to the motorcycle! I live in SD but its a game changer with lane splitting. A bit hair raising some times but I'm my own traffic pattern. Mostly folks move out of your way. I feel very bad for all those people in cars as I just ride through the I 805 parking lot and get home in 15 minutes. I get 60 mpg to boot.
When someone on a motorcycle lane splits through interstate traffic going 30+ mph faster than the cars, I don't get jealous. I just remind myself that the country has a shortage of healthy organ donors...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 12:35pm PT
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Nice thought but I aver they are far more likely to need an organ than donate one.
And as to the cars causing all their accidents I aver that is a function of their relative speeds.
I also aver that they go down at a much higher rate than cars thereby causing more congestion.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 01:02pm PT
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Jim,
Last Friday you had a triple whammy. Normal Friday afternoon traffic, plus it being a holiday weekend and people going out of town, then on top of it the second weekend of Coachella.
Yes, traffic here SUCKS. I've lived here my whole life and have just seen it get exponentially worse. It takes me nearly an hour each way to and from work - a whopping 15 miles away. It's very difficult to endure, no doubt about it. For us it's a matter of our jobs being here (not replicable elsewhere) as well as immediate family and many longtime, close friendships.
I have many days where I'm sure I'm going to blow a gasket. I close my windows, lock my doors and scream profanities. : )
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Apr 22, 2019 - 01:55pm PT
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I don't lane split going 30+ mph through traffic but I can keep moving. I can also park virtually anywhere.
S...
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 03:59pm PT
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It's an incredible city full of incredible people from the all over the world. They bring their food and music with them.
I live a 10 minute drive from one of the most incredible art collections in the world.
It's a short train ride to one of the best concert halls and orchestras in the world.
At the same time, I live at the base of a mountain range with 8-10,000' peaks. I can walk out my door with a backpack on and walk those mountains for days. If I wanted to, I could walk to Canada from my house and never leave trail.
I can fish for native rainbow trout in the midst of big horn sheep only 25 miles from downtown Los Angeles.
Are their many other cities like it? Agreed, in spades, and then some. The problem with a place like LA is that it's got a lot going for it, so lots of people choose to live here. There's been some good discussion here about why some people have heinous commutes. However, unless affordable high density housing happens, that's not likely to change.
Back to donini's gripe: it does seem like it has gotten worse, especially on Friday afternoons. I took by two sons out to Joshua Tree a few weeks ago. We reserved a hotel with a pool in Yucca Valley so they could splash around Friday night and have less car time on Saturday, when we were driving home. I got off work early and we were on the road by 2. It took FIVE freakin' hours to go from the LAX area to Yucca Valley, a distance that takes only two hours on the weekend. Good fun was had by all on Saturday, but that was a really, really unpleasant afternoon.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 04:02pm PT
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Fat Dad, 2 on a Friday is way too late! 11 am might have been OK. Sad but that’s my experience.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Apr 22, 2019 - 04:07pm PT
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I love L.A., but the traffic is rough. Traffic is no problem in San Francisco, so long as you don't try to enter or leave! Around town it's fine, just no where to park.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 04:16pm PT
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I lived in LA for about 7 years off and on, and visited regularly for 20. Twelve years ago, I dated a woman who lived in WeHo and I lived in Huntington Park/Mt Washington. I worked one of 2 shifts: the 7am-7pm or vice versa, so when I got off work and wanted to visit her I'd get hosed by the traffic one way or another. At times the commute became onerous. She'd introduced my to the concept of "convenient booty". Basically, when you first start dating in LA, if your chosen date lived in an area that was a pain to get to due to traffic, the inconvenience of the booty would be unsustainable and ultimately sabotage the relationship.
Still baffles me when I leave the coast after midnight and head inland on the 10, or travel the 405, you can still meet standstill traffic...yes, after midnight. Ten minute drives can become hour long drives arbitrarily. Ridiculous.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 22, 2019 - 04:38pm PT
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We have Battle Ships here.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 22, 2019 - 04:58pm PT
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I paid for this picture at the Battleship Iowa Museum. I own the rights.
Both of my parents in that pic are gone now. My StepDad was a Navy man.
Oh, traffic was easy getting there mid-day on a Sunday.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 05:10pm PT
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I had the privilege of cruising with the Iowa! To look across a couple hundred yards of water at her was truly awe inspiring.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 22, 2019 - 05:19pm PT
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I can handle about 4 days in LA when visiting my MIL, then I start to get grumpy, especially if I'm drawn into a shopping mall. I moved from the Bay Area to Alaska 22 years ago, have never missed the quality of life in California.
It's an incredible city full of incredible people from the all over the world. They bring their food and music with them.
I live a 10 minute drive from one of the most incredible art collections in the world.
It's a short train ride to one of the best concert halls and orchestras in the world.
At the same time, I live at the base of a mountain range with 8-10,000' peaks. I can walk out my door with a backpack on and walk those mountains for days. If I wanted to, I could walk to Canada from my house and never leave trail.
I can fish for native rainbow trout in the midst of big horn sheep only 25 miles from downtown Los Angeles.
Are their many other cities like it?
Surprisingly Anchorage AK offers quite a bit. Check on a diverse culture, there are over 100 languages spoken in the school district and our restaurant scene is continuing to grow.
I'm on the South end of town, I can reach anyplace in town in 30 minutes, unless it's commute time which is 7:30-8:30 am and 5-6 pm, then add 10 or at most 20 minutes. I can sit on my deck and have a 100 mile view.
I've had moose, black bear, grizzly bear and lynx walk through my yard. Have seen a mountain goat and wolverine within a mile of the house while walking the dog. I live on the edge of the Chugach mountains, have several trailheads 10-15 minutes from home. The access a huge park for hiking and back country skiing
Fishing? If you think so cal compares to AK, you need to lay off the jazz cabbage. We have that too if it's your thing, been legal since 75.
Winter is long, that's the only downside. But you can cross country ski in town, downhill, back country, heli skiing is within an hour drive tops. Ice climbing, rock climbing, mountain biking all close by.
And drum roll please, you can afford to buy a house!!!
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 06:07pm PT
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Donini,
Though I wasn't born in LA, I was raised there. I lived in the Los Angeles environs from 1935 through 2018. That's a long time.
All I can say is: Thank God for Bishop!
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 22, 2019 - 06:19pm PT
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We have Peregrine Falcons here. I own the the photo of it CMAC.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 22, 2019 - 10:14pm PT
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Long commutes in a car are soul-destroying.
I spent the last 20 years in Seattle, which, while not LA, is well known for its horrible traffic. But it has good bike routes and, for me, the commute was both relaxing, full of health benefit, and faster than driving.
Unfortunately for her, my wife's workplace for the last seven years was out of bicycle-commute range, and she had too endure over an hour of stop-and-go traffic each way. She only worked two weeks per month, but that still adds up to a lot of miles, a lot of hours, and a lot of soul destruction.
But when I retired late last year we sold our Seattle house, and moved to Powell River on the BC coast. Mari kept her job, and now commutes across the border. And this is where it gets really weird...
Powell River, while it is only 65 air miles from Vancouver, is separated from that city by two deep inlets, and because two ferries are involved, those 65 air miles take six hours. And Vancouver is still about 150 miles from her workplace. But she is now spending less time commuting, and driving fewer miles!
The commute from Powell River to her workplace east of Seattle takes about 9 hours and covers 230 miles of road. But she stays in a company condo near the lab for the two work weeks, and then puts in another 9 hours and 230 miles back to PR. (And since about half the time is spent on, or waiting for, the ferries rather than driving, it's not a bad journey.) You can do the additions, but, strange as it seems, she's spending much less time in the car now. And while the company condo isn't a penthouse high above LA or SF, it is only 15 minutes from Index...
So I'm pretty much with Jim on this one. Obviously, many of you have learned to cope with commuting in LA or other similar places, but I sure couldn't do it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 22, 2019 - 10:21pm PT
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Being run over by cars is a health benefit? 😳
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 22, 2019 - 11:25pm PT
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There's been some good discussion here about why some people have heinous commutes. However, unless affordable high density housing happens, that's not likely to change.
I'm just a blue collar guy, and maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never had a heinous commute in the 38 years I've been in SoCal.
Tolman_paul, I hear you. Anchorage sounds nice. I know the fishing in Alaska is fantastic, but I have cast for native rainbows in the East Fork of the San Gabriel River, looked up and seen a herd of Bighorn crossing the stream. Nice rainbows, too.
And we complain here when in the dead of winter it hits 42 degrees. One morning last winter there was ice on my windshield! Yikes!
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john hansen
climber
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Apr 22, 2019 - 11:58pm PT
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I live on the Big Island in Hawaii. I bought my Toyota Corrola 2 years ago.
My average speed for two years has been under 35 MPH. Pretty mellow here in Hamakua.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 23, 2019 - 12:38am PT
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you don't have to live like a refugee
but it's nice to have the option
~~~~
it's been a "pleasure" to have s t r e t c h e d o u t your old ropes jim
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 23, 2019 - 01:26am PT
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hey there, say, john...
wow, as to your quote:
Apr 22, 2019 - 11:58pm PT
I live on the Big Island in Hawaii. I bought my Toyota Corrola 2 years ago.
My average speed for two years has been under 35 MPH. Pretty mellow here in Hamakua.
hee hee, sounds like my kind of place...
i am not feeling good at freeway driving, :O
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 23, 2019 - 11:42am PT
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I live on the Big Island in Hawaii. The Big Island is awesome, but not a good location for a climber.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 23, 2019 - 12:16pm PT
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Tolman Paul is living in a dream world, the commute from Eagle River was heinous 35 years ago! How can it not be worse now?
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 23, 2019 - 01:17pm PT
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The Eagle River commute is worse, which is why we moved from Eagle River to Anchorage four years ago. Mileage only dropped from 18 miles to 12 miles, but time wise my 45 min to 1 1/2 drives each way dropped to 20-30 minutes. I'm also 40 minutes closer to everything we do South of town, which seems to be our primary spot to recreate.
Way less stressful to spend under an hour commuting per day vs 2+ hours a day. That extra hour lets you get stuff done you wouldn't otherwise. When I was in the Bay Area I was 10 miles from work and it took me an hour and fifteen minutes to get to work, same on the way back, and that was 25 years ago.
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
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Apr 23, 2019 - 02:59pm PT
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Hopscotch the rich culture, great culinary joints and wide diversity of people......eventually the traffic becomes your central focus. ;)
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 23, 2019 - 04:01pm PT
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Many routes are fine much of the time, I have gone from Malibu to Pasadena in 35 minutes. Some trips are bad all the time, and then others, it is Russian Roulette, sometimes traffic is fine, other times not. I would say on average, 70% of my trips are fine for traffic, and 30% are bad.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Apr 23, 2019 - 06:37pm PT
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I left that sh#t show to live close to Yosemite.
Oddly, Yosemite has the same problem now.
I am the problem.
There is no spoon.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 23, 2019 - 07:53pm PT
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no problem good climbing is about 1.2 hr drive away, if you know where to look.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Apr 24, 2019 - 07:37am PT
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Is there a compassionate way to cull the herd?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 24, 2019 - 07:39am PT
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The DMV could do that if it insisted on competence as a condition of obtaining a driver’s license.
3/4 of SoCal drivers wouldn’t get a license in Europe.
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capseeboy
Social climber
wandering star
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Apr 24, 2019 - 07:43am PT
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I am the problem.
Your not alone my friend.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 24, 2019 - 08:03am PT
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Yes .... WE ARE THE PROBLEM.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 24, 2019 - 08:19am PT
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I've lived here all of my sixty five years, and have seen the traffic go from bad to horrible. There was a time, that if you started a road trip at three in the morning, you had the road to yourself. Those days are long gone.
At one time California drivers were known as being pretty good. Those days are long gone.
edit: several people have talked about using mass transit. Well, ridership is down. I guess gangbangers, drug dealers, and homeless people have an impact.
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capseeboy
Social climber
wandering star
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Apr 24, 2019 - 08:33am PT
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Few years back drove through Sacramento I-5 in early AM. Well, apparently it wasn't early enough. The smog/fog was thick and visibility was poor. Lord'e me. Did not matter, trucker's like bats out'a hell screaming up my bumper like no tomorrow. F'me. Had to speed up and drive blind or risk getting rear ended. Scared the liven bee jeezers out'a me. Same thing happened on a lonely road near Taft CA. Blows my mind. Made climbing seem safe in comparison. Hoohya! ps visibility was so poor I would pass an off ramp before I had time to take it. Full speed ahead and dam the torpedoes.
Edit:10b4me I feared getting on the light rail at PDX more than travel in Nicaragua, laugh not loud.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Apr 24, 2019 - 09:01am PT
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I live 2.4 miles from work so my commute involves no freeway time. I also live as close to the edge of LA as I can so that my get out of town time is minimized. At the same time, I almost never go to JT anymore because of the drive.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 24, 2019 - 09:50am PT
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^ I'm surprised that someone can survive even a week in LA smog. Toxic smog is there - it might not be as bad as decades ago - but it's there and quite heavy. You can smell it approaching LA county, can see it and can feel the lungs struggling with it.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Apr 24, 2019 - 10:53am PT
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10b4me says: I've lived here all of my sixty five years, and have seen the traffic go from bad to horrible.
Geez, even in Lida Junction? I'da thought it would have improved since the Cottontail closed...
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Apr 24, 2019 - 11:05am PT
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I grew up in LA in the '60s and '70s.There's no smog these days...
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 24, 2019 - 11:06am PT
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The DMV could do that if it insisted on competence as a condition of obtaining a driver’s license.
3/4 of SoCal drivers wouldn’t get a license in Europe.
Once traffic gets bumper-to-bumper, there isn't much to be done. But for heavy traffic that is still moving fairly quickly, a better driving culture would increase both the speed and the capacity of traffic. It is pretty annoying when drivers who want to drive a little slower (which is fine) don't stay over in the right lane (which is not fine), presumably because they don't like being in the truck lane and/or the lane that entering traffic has to merge into.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 24, 2019 - 11:10am PT
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several people have talked about using mass transit. Well, ridership is down. I guess gangbangers, drug dealers, and homeless people have an impact.
There is a tipping point with mass transit. If you have crappy mass transit that only the poor, or the desperate, or the indifferent use, then it is a miserable experience. If you have really good mass transit, and the mass transit is more convenient and faster than going by car, you get a high enough percentage of reasonable passengers that the experience is usually reasonable.
Having a society that has fewer, really down-and-out sorts also really helps. But I suppose that is too political a discussion for the Brave New Supertopo.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 24, 2019 - 11:11am PT
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It gets bumper-to-bumper because of all the retards who think they need 8 car lengths in front of them when they’re doing 15-20.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2019 - 11:13am PT
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My wife and I have two homes. The one in Ouray is 9 miles from the nearest traffic signal and you have to travel 165 miles to get to one from our place in Patagonia.
I think that urbanization is great for the planet. Packing people together leaves room for other critters and humans seem to love cities....long commutes and all.
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capseeboy
Social climber
wandering star
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Apr 24, 2019 - 11:52am PT
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I saw the enemy in the mourning mirror.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2019 - 01:34pm PT
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I agree that SoCal drivers are better than most...thank god for small favors. They are good about letting you change lanes in front of them.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Apr 24, 2019 - 02:24pm PT
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Jim that's because if you don't you may get shot.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Apr 24, 2019 - 02:30pm PT
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It's funny because some of the worst drivers I've seen have been in Utah. It's a good thing that there isn't more traffic there or they would kill everybody on the road.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 24, 2019 - 02:39pm PT
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Utah? They’re freaking Formula 1 drivers compared to Oregon where it’s apparently
legal to drive while on Quaaludes. However, nowhere I’ve driven compares to New Mexico.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Apr 24, 2019 - 03:33pm PT
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New Mexico checking in... truly the most dangerous place to drive I've ever lived. Not irritating- dangerous. Our insurance rates got jacked when we moved from California. Not much traffic though!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2019 - 07:11pm PT
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New Mexico is above average in motor deaths per mile driven but Mississippi tops the list. Cali is below average in deaths per mile driven but Massachusetts is even lower.
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john hansen
climber
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Apr 24, 2019 - 07:46pm PT
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Life on the Big Island...
You pull up to a four way stop a few seconds after the person across the street.
You are turning left and they are going straight and clearly have the right of way.
They always wave their hand,,, no no ,,, you go first, and wont move till you do. That's what the shaka is for.
I worked on Molokai for 5 or 6 month's one time. If you are following some one and they are turning left they pull into the left hand oncoming traffic lane way before they turn to let you pass.
On Molokai, heading out to Halawa , there is not very often oncoming traffic.
Jim , can you drive all the way to your house down south? Four wheel drive required?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 24, 2019 - 08:10pm PT
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LA freeways would have fewer traffic jams if the speed limit was raised to 90....
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2019 - 07:08am PT
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In your list of bad guys you forgot the 1 percenters who want even a bigger share of the pot while denying even the most basic things for less fortunate people.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 25, 2019 - 07:46am PT
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it takes about 5 years in a small town to realize what a fool you have been living in a big city, scientists have shown that as soon as you get more than 250,000 people in the same area that anti social behavior begins and you get a horrific freak kingdom like LA, with gang bangers, robbers, thieves, drug addicts, rapists, hip hops, munk ass punks, trick ass punks, winos; con artists, hobos, skid row bums, girls who can't keep and address and men who don't care,
Or maybe what your fake science doesn't show, it the backward thinking of the small town, where if you are an outlier, you just get strung up at midnight, or have your affordable house burned down with you in it.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 25, 2019 - 07:49am PT
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Yeah...the proliferation of 'FastTrak' lanes throughout So Cal has always rubbed me the wrong way. Why is it ok for the state gov't to take public lands (or acquire lands for public purposes), and then turn them over to a for-profit operation? Aren't public lands supposed to be...public lands?
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capseeboy
Social climber
wandering star
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Apr 25, 2019 - 07:53am PT
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on a good note, i do believe CA has the nations strictest auto emissions standards? Maybe the smog is better now.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 25, 2019 - 08:12am PT
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on a good note, i do believe CA has the nations strictest auto emissions standards? Maybe the smog is better now.
actually, a study just came out that said LA has the worst air in the country, and is getting worse.
Or maybe what your fake science doesn't show, it the backward thinking of the small town, where if you are an outlier, you just get strung up at midnight, or have your affordable house burned down with you in it.
Now that's some backward thinking.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 08:20am PT
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it takes about 5 years in a small town to realize what a fool you have been living in a big city, scientists have shown that as soon as you get more than 250,000 people in the same area that anti social behavior begins and you get a horrific freak kingdom like LA, with gang bangers, robbers, thieves, drug addicts, rapists, hip hops, munk ass punks, trick ass punks, winos; con artists, hobos, skid row bums, girls who can't keep and address and men who don't care,
I'd say it takes about a couple of minutes, not 5 years.
And I think it takes only 25,000 population, not 250,000, for things to get bad and hectic.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 08:38am PT
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LA’s air is like Oslo’s compared to Cairo, Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, or any Chinese city.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Apr 25, 2019 - 09:29am PT
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I don't know about all this hate on LA. I just love it here. Of course I live on the edge where the air is really good.
I heard the report on the news that LA air is the worst. More specifically that is in the Port of Long Beach area where they have not yet got a handle on the diesel from ships, trains and trucks.
Evidence of good air can be found in Pasadena. 40 years ago it was the worst with a constant brown haze. It was virtually abandonded. As the air cleaned up it blossomed into a top spot to live and visit and is now thriving.
Crime in LA is on an all time low with homicides plunging to record lows when the city was a quarter the size it is now.
Y'all can go on hating but I'm gonna breath my clean air and eat my street tacos 'til I'm old and gray.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 09:33am PT
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I’ll take LA’s traffic any day compared to Seattle’s. At least you have options in LA.
The only way you have options in Seattle is if you have an amphibious car.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Apr 25, 2019 - 12:20pm PT
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I don't know about all this hate on LA. I just love it here.
Wait another thirty years.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Apr 25, 2019 - 12:31pm PT
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Ken M has a point.
Here in WV, if you piss off the locals, they chop down trees to block the road to your house, and then they torch your place. There are never any eye witnesses, and nobody knows nuthin'.
This is, after all, MAGA country.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 12:33pm PT
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From a visitor perspective, and first-time drive-in-the-area perspective, LA can be a nightmare. But like most metro areas it has a bit of everything and with some effort and imagination you can find your tribe and carve out a life full of possibilities that are meaningful to you.
There are definitely places I would prefer to live much more than LA. But it is not as bad as I feared before moving here and it makes the jigsaw puzzle of my life possible, unlike almost every other area in the country, so I’m not complaining! A big part of that is probably because I work from home and don’t have to deal with the daily commute. That would definitely sap my soul.
In the last month or two I have been kayaking near Malibu, kayaking in E. Fork of San Gabriel River, skiing at Mt Baldy, and enjoying an expansive view of greenery and mountains (and houses) every day. LA is more convenient for climbing than SF Bay Area, and really anyone who can’t find what they like here isn’t trying. I can’t argue anything in favor of the traffic though. It is manageable if you design your life around minimizing it.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 12:36pm PT
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The air quality is actually even worse on outskirts of LA where the toxic soup gets pushed by predominant eastward winds and sits against the hills (LA is in a natural bowl).
Anyway, you can smell the stench of LA smog way before you even drive close to it.
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Apr 25, 2019 - 12:47pm PT
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If you think driving in LA is bad, try defending the City when somebody posts an obviously inconvenient fact about life in LA. Suddenly, in two-three days you get 134+ responses.
Everybody loves dinging the City.
But you ever think that maybe our traffic miseries are due to the masses of people who love being here, and continue to come every chance they get?
When I get tired of it, I head east, north, or, my preference, SOUTH. Unfortunately, west is limited.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 12:52pm PT
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Here in WV, if you piss off the locals, they chop down trees to block the road to your house, and then they torch your place. There are never any eye witnesses, and nobody knows nuthin'. One must do something bad?
I've seen rural folks who had this kind of stuff coming, for sure.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 25, 2019 - 02:54pm PT
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actually, a study just came out that said LA has the worst air in the country, and is getting worse.
Obviously they didn't sample the air on any crosstown street in Manhattan.
I can't say it's science, but on most days I can see Catalina Island from my front porch in Monrovia (east of Pasadena.) That's about 30 miles. I can also see Saddleback Mountain in Orange County, about the same distance. Of course there's always a pocket of smog around Long Beach. But when my visibility is limited it's almost always marine layer moisture. I see zero evidence of L.A. air getting worse.
According to Marketwatch, the 8 worst U.S. cities are:
...eight cities reporting their highest number of days with dangerous ozone and particular pollution level spikes since air quality was first measured 20 years ago. They were:
Fairbanks, Alaska
Salinas, Calif.
Santa Maria-Santa Barbara, Calif.
Missoula, Mont.
Bismarck, N.D.
Bend-Pineville, Ore.
Spokane-Spokane Valley-Coeur d’Alene, Wash.-Idaho
Yakima, Wash.
The list is from the American Lung Association.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 03:34pm PT
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That's about 30 miles.
Actually closer to 55 miles, but who’s counting? 😉
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 03:38pm PT
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Here're some maps in below found in CA statewide, year 2014 report. They show key metrics (while numerous toxic pollutants never make it into such cumulative reports, would be only seen in per-facility emissions/cleanup reports).
LA metro is shown on separate sub-maps. Not posting screenshots because of copyright.
https://oehha.ca.gov/media/downloads/calenviroscreen/report/ces20publicreview04212014.pdf
Toxic Releases to air: page 47
PM 2.5: page 24
Ozone: page 20
Diesel PM: page 29
Hazardous waste facilities: page 72
Pollution Burden: page 86
 this is a combination indicator but not a simple sum of the above factors
Enough said...
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Apr 25, 2019 - 05:07pm PT
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One must do something bad?
For a MAGA hillbilly, "bad" could be having a darker complexion and surname that a hillybilly cannot pronounce.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 25, 2019 - 05:56pm PT
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Yeah...the proliferation of 'FastTrak' lanes throughout So Cal has always rubbed me the wrong way. Why is it ok for the state gov't to take public lands (or acquire lands for public purposes), and then turn them over to a for-profit operation? Aren't public lands supposed to be...public lands?
The short answer is that it makes traffic move faster. It's not even debatable.
I can (not) understand why you would want to have MORE congestion, MORE pollution, and travel slower.
Here are the facts:
https://la.streetsblog.org/2012/10/02/metro-expresslanes-and-carpooling-the-facts-the-benefits-and-more/
Or, we can just keep building more lanes, I think at about 25 million/mile.
And I can see (not) why you would object to a private firm actually coming up with the money to make it happen. Why be innovative? Why be creative? Why not tear up thousands of units of housing, in a situation where already short several hundred thousand units? Why do something that works??
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 06:12pm PT
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I think this thing described about WV happens all over the South and in some parts of CA or Colorado even and does not have much to do with politics.
I can recall all kinds of situations where I heard some very bad things happened to people who had disputes (yes to people of the same race).
Also, if you move into any ethnically or racially uniform rural area, anywhere in the word, and you're different from locals...things can happen if you have some disagreement or even just stand up for your property rights sometimes. Including some clannish area and you're just not "from here".
Such is rural life, unless you're in the zip code for the wealthy. It's not a bucolic environment unless one is putting out $$$.
But for a moment I thought it was about Californians moving and trying to change things to make it all into LA (and raise taxes)..and getting the axe.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Apr 25, 2019 - 06:15pm PT
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LA traffic has spread to the eastside . Same insanity only on snowy roads ...Drive at your own peril...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 09:31pm PT
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chuck, you forgot bunions.
The good thing is that when the Lord smites us y’all will be unable to resist looking and
will produce untold numbers of salt pillars.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 25, 2019 - 09:35pm PT
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10b, All I can speak to is what I've been seeing from where I live for the last 12 years. I'm up on the shoulder of the San Gabriel's just west of Monrovia Canyon, so I can see out across the San Gabriel Valley, out to Palos Verde and Catalina. From my roof I can see straight across downtown and out to the west side. The views have steadily cleared since we moved in. It's clear more frequently, and it's clearer overall. So from the standpoint of visibility my empirical evidence indicates clearer air. Granted there are probably all kinds of pollutants that don't visibly dirty the air.
edit: If God ever comes back to clean up this corrupt planet, Beijing will be the first place on his list.
Fixed it for ya ;-)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 25, 2019 - 10:14pm PT
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10b, I heard on NPR the other morning that the recent poor air quality results were due in large part to the soot from the numerous big fires we had recently.
Sewellymon, nice spread. Did you ever think when you were climbing bum sleeping in the dirt that you'd ever have a nice pad of your own? Still blows me away. It's like that Talking Heads song, "well, how did I get here"?
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 26, 2019 - 08:26am PT
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When you live and work near thousands and thousands of other drivers you get used to traffic to some degree. When you don't deal with traffic regularly being stuck in it becomes maddening. When I'm feeling at peace with my world, traffic is one of the easiest ways to kill that buzz. It's the old numbers game.
I know that I’m spoiled, the county I live in has one traffic light
Ha! I'm more spoiled than you, we don't have any.
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formerclimber
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 26, 2019 - 08:38am PT
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Olympia is like mini LA now...
Why would people want to live in SoCal (crowds, smog, rude people, expensive, hot weather, gangs) or coastal metro WA (crowds, endless rains, rude people, expensive) remains a great mystery of life. May be future historians will solve it some day.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2019 - 08:58am PT
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Olympia is like mini LA now...
HaHaHa! Yeah, it takes like 15 minutes to get from our friend’s near Capitol HS to our other friend’s up by S Bay and Sleater-Kinney! And sometimes we see like 8 cars on S Bay Rd!
HEINOUS! Major cred loss, former!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 26, 2019 - 09:34am PT
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scientists have shown that as soon as you get more than 250,000 people in the same area that anti social behavior begins and you get a horrific freak kingdom like LA, with gang bangers, robbers, thieves, drug addicts, rapists, hip hops, munk ass punks, trick ass punks, winos; con artists, hobos, skid row bums, girls who can't keep and address and men who don't care,
Uh, huh. No meth labs in those wonderful rural towns. Nobody using the SS disability checks to buy their Oxycontin that's for sure.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 26, 2019 - 07:26pm PT
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While it is true that air pollution is the worst in LA, in the country, it is ALSO true that the level is much smaller everywhere in the US:
"While emissions standards have greatly improved conditions in the City of Angels as well, Los Angeles still has the highest ozone concentrations of any major American metropolis. This is a result of its mountainous terrain, which trap air pollution in the Los Angeles basin. This topography contributes to the creation of smog, but at levels significantly lower than in decades past."
http://www.vitalsigns.mtc.ca.gov/ozone-concentrations
"Ozone levels are more than one-third lower today than at their high point in the 1970s"
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 26, 2019 - 07:29pm PT
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I'll also note from the referred article, that the 2, 3, and 4th smoggiest areas in the US are:
2. Visalia
3. Bakersfield
4. Fresno
I guess their traffic is also unendurable?
Fresno is also noted to be the sootiest air in the country.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Apr 26, 2019 - 09:32pm PT
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What Werner B down in LA....
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 26, 2019 - 10:16pm PT
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What about
Berdoo, Oakland, Fresno, Bakersfield, Stockton
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2019 - 10:22pm PT
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Chuck, murder is above those Olympia simpletons’ pay grade. Now, was they to run out of espresso they should turn surly if not wery ugly as quick as you can say “Bob’s yer uncle!”
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 27, 2019 - 05:29am PT
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ground chuck:
it takes about 5 years in a small town to realize what a fool you have been living in a big city, scientists have shown that as soon as you get more than 250,000 people in the same area that anti social behavior begins and you get a horrific freak kingdom like LA, with gang bangers, robbers, thieves, drug addicts, rapists, hip hops, munk ass punks, trick ass punks, winos; con artists, hobos, skid row bums ... In Canada the highest crime rates are in rural Manitoba and Saskatchewan.
The lowest crime rates are in largest Canadian cities like Toronto.
Can I assume that a similar situation exists in the US?
Are from statistical point of view largest cities like LA and NY the safest places in the US?
Again, first we need to exclude known ghettos like Chicago and Detroit.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Apr 27, 2019 - 06:08am PT
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Ken M:
I can (not) understand why you would want to have MORE congestion, MORE pollution, and travel slower.
Here are the facts:
https://la.streetsblog.org/2012/10/02/metro-expresslanes-and-carpooling-the-facts-the-benefits-and-more/ Ken M, I apologise but these are not facts. This is just old fashioned propaganda.
Why would you provide a link to a 6 years old article describing expected benefits?
Don't they already have real facts showing how this tollway improved overall flow of traffic?
I am also confused by stupidity such as "My ticket [for not having a transponder] was $238.00 + $2.00 toll charge and 50.00 penalty fee.".
Do such fines still exist now?
I am asking this question because up here anybody can drive on HW407 without a transponder for a mere $4.00 additional "camera charge" per trip + regular toll. In this case your license plate will be manually read and your bill will be sent to your mailing address.
For a visitor (e.g. a person who drove from LA and do not plan coming here one more time) it's essentially a free drive, because HW407 has no way to enforce payment of such once in a lifetime bills.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2019 - 06:17am PT
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Having morning coffee in my trailer at Indian Creek. Great view of the Henry Mountsins off to the west and several mule deer just went by....haven’t heard a car yet, I’ll deal with that somehow.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Apr 27, 2019 - 08:17am PT
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You sure get around donini. Glad to see you're not wasting your youth.
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