Who hammered a supposedly hardest sport climb in the world?

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 1 - 46 of total 46 in this topic

Gunkie

Trad climber

Valles Marineris

Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 14, 2019 - 05:16am PT

So I'm reading Greg Childs book, Over the Edge, and there is this...

...a climber who claimed the first ascent of what could have been the world's hardest sport climb, a steep and nearly blank stretch of cliff in California that several of the best American climbers had dismissed at the time as impossible. The climber who claimed the ascent had no history of climbing such cutting-edge routes, and when asked to produce proof that he had done the route, he could not name a witness or even the partner who had held his rope to belay him. As criticism surrounding his claim intensified, he took a hammer to the route and smashed all the holds off it, rendering any ascent impossible.

I kind of have some recollection of this incident.

When did this occur ?

Where did this occur ?

Who is/was this 'climber' ?

Does this person even climb anymore ?

Trashman

Trad climber

SLC

Mar 14, 2019 - 06:35am PT

Louie Anderson on Refiner’s Fire with a Stanley claw hammer? Circa ‘94?

If I got the climber right, he’s been linked to the whole brewhaha in Tensleep recently.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Mar 14, 2019 - 06:38am PT

Trashman for the win!

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Mar 14, 2019 - 06:55am PT

Whoa. That's a seriously insecure DB. Sad character.

BAd

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Mill Valley, Ca

Mar 14, 2019 - 07:22am PT

“Refiner’s Liar”... LOL!

https://www.outsideonline.com/1834626/allow-me-be-first-congratulate-you-your-stunning-achievement-damn-you

Louie Anderson

THE BOAST: I conquered one of the nation's toughest climbing routes
PROBLEM IS: Experts say it can't be climbed

In the summer of 1995, Anderson shimmied up Refiner's Fire, a 20-degree overhanging wall near Barstow, California, that at the time was one of only two 5.14b climbing routes in America. Or so he says. Unfortunately, Anderson has no video, no track record, no proof. What he has is his word, which was good enough to initially net him considerable fanfare in the sport-climbing world. In the years since, however, many elite rock-jocks have taken a hard look at the wall and a hard look at the 31-year-old Anderson, and have come to a different conclusion. Their new name for the route: Refiner's Liar. "On his best day, the guy couldn't even come close to climbing it," says Randy Leavitt, a former training partner of Anderson's. A highly regarded sport climber, Leavitt himself tried the route and failed. Then he dangled $1,000 in front of Anderson simply to repeat the feat (with cameras rolling). Anderson declined. So Leavitt asked Boone Speed, who had redpointed the nation's only other 5.14b, what he could make of Refiner's. "Randy figured if anyone could do it, I could," shrugs Speed. He couldn't: "You'd almost have to be a fly to climb that wall." Anderson dismisses the attempts to vet his story; it took a year and a half of study to manage the 19 moves on the smooth, granite face, he says. "It's not a clear-cut thing that you're going to be able to repeat it every time," Anderson insists. Thus it seems his feat will go unconfirmed. Which is fine with him. "I don't care if anyone thinks I'm kick-ass or not," Anderson says. "I'm comfortable with the truth

I remember hearing that Boone Speed couldn’t even hang on some of the holds. Good stuff!

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 14, 2019 - 07:26am PT

I recall it was Randy Leavitt (?) who Child is referring to here - roped up with him in the gym and observed the man in action, then quickly, and probably quite accurately, determined there was just no way. Randy then posted a letter somewhere - the mags, maybe rec.climbing - and just a few days later the route was destroyed.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Mill Valley, Ca

Mar 14, 2019 - 07:36am PT

It was a letter published in Climbing Magazine. From what I understand, this would have represented a huge jump in difficulty for the FA-ist.

Gunkie

Trad climber

Valles Marineris

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2019 - 08:08am PT

Thanks for the feedback and just WOW. And this guy is still out there doing his 5hit? Makes Ken Nichols look like Bambi in the Jungle. Well, maybe not.

Louie Anderson :)

WBraun

climber

Mar 14, 2019 - 08:15am PT

Bachar hammered bolt hangers flat and used a crowbar to rip crucial hold off thriller to try and make it so no one could do it anymore ...

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Mill Valley, Ca

Mar 14, 2019 - 08:24am PT

As long as we're besmirching the deceased, I'm pretty sure Michael Reardon did KNOTT do an onsight free solo of Romantic Warrior!

Russ Walling

Social climber

from Poofters Froth, Wyoming

Mar 14, 2019 - 08:31am PT

👨‍❤️‍👨💩

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 14, 2019 - 09:15am PT

All from way back in the day when you could be a pro with a considerably higher mix of BS than actual achievement. Seems with the modern spread of incredibly detailed information and videos on training and the resulting sends - genetics and available time are now the most important - there's far less BS.

hamie

Social climber

Thekoots

Mar 14, 2019 - 09:20am PT

It's obvious why Anderson destroyed his supposed route.

Why did Bachar do the same thing on Thriller?

Trashman

Trad climber

SLC

Mar 14, 2019 - 09:36am PT

All from way back in the day when you could be a pro with a considerably higher mix of BS than actual achievement.

^^^^ Clearly not familiar with the “Instagram Influencers”.

Do you know what a cam is? Mildly photogenic(don’t worry, filters and golden hour light do the heavy lifting)? Then you too could be the face of an advertising campaign. *Apply at your local guide service to help cover non gear costs.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:12am PT

Ego, hubris, fabricated tales of ascent...all a potent mix in the climbing numbers game.

Come to think of it...similar events have happened in the alpine world.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:18am PT

Hammering off holds has gone on at the Traprock/choss in Connecticut as far back as the 1940s

Cragar

climber

MSLA - MT

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:21am PT

Maybe he was tweakin' when he 'did' it?

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:34am PT

So it is possible it was never hammered.

My recollection is there were fresh scars all over the route after the hammering. Think about it - no sh!t someone would have been able to tell the difference and there'd be no controversy.

The Leavitt article was pretty funny. This is where the $1k was offered. His primary evidence was Louis' falling off an 11b warmup in the climbing gym or some such. It's a worthy article, and it was just a few days later the holds were hammered. Someone should dig it up and post it to one of these Ten Sleep threads.

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Lassitude 33

Mar 14, 2019 - 11:02am PT

Dumbing down of climbing and manufacturing routes in an area like Ten Sleep demonstrates the ongoing cultural shift in outdoor climbing. While climbers have crossed many "lines" over the years, this activity is unjustified and unforgivable. But, I fear that it will set a new "baseline" [low] of what is considered acceptable.

On a side rant, when did we surrender so profoundly to Facebook? It seems that we can't sign on to comment on the R&I's article/website to express concerns without doing this through FB. Haven't we had enough of its crap?

Mike Bolte

Trad climber

Planet Earth

Mar 14, 2019 - 12:06pm PT

Werner - like Walleye, I don't remember bolts on Thriller. There was lots of press about JB popping off some glue-reinforced holds on The Force next door to Thriller...

EDIT: Ken (below) is right. Have to parse Werner's comment carefully

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Mar 14, 2019 - 12:20pm PT

I heard it the way Cottonside said...l

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Mar 14, 2019 - 12:23pm PT

Tangent alert:

Totally agree, LST, I am so tired of hearing "FA" reports from areas long visited by climbers, with long "no publish" traditions....the new reports often say stuff like: "I climbed as high as I could, whacked in a pin and lowered off". sweet, I am sure that it is a bomber single pin rap anchor. 🙃 It really puts the true FA party in a pickle in that if they climb to the summit or a logical finish out of sight of the ground, they really have to publish to prevent or diminish the likelihood of such second, first ascent retro anchoring...but of course in publishing the route or area, you invite in more insta FB image lifestyle goobers/pricks. fuggin people.

mike m

Trad climber

black hills

Mar 14, 2019 - 01:16pm PT

Tensleep is choss go to Spearfish Canyon. Haha I may be biased. There is a lot of "cleaning" that goes into to most limestone routes.

brotherbbock

climber

So-Cal

Mar 14, 2019 - 01:20pm PT

As long as we're besmirching the deceased

He ain't dead. He posts here as Socalbolter.

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Mar 14, 2019 - 01:24pm PT

Yeah, he's still kicking. I've heard some other bad stories about LA when he was young. As far as I know he turned a page and is now always looking to help our community.

brotherbbock

climber

So-Cal

Mar 14, 2019 - 01:28pm PT

Louie chipped and glued lots of routes at the quarry so people could climb there. He definitely puts in time so others can enjoy some routes, albeit his methods some may consider not kosher. I used to see him at hangar 18 all the time he is a good dude. Everybody has done questionable stuff in their past so give the guy a break.

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Mar 14, 2019 - 01:35pm PT

yeah, I hear you as far as quarry-work B-bock, I know a guy.....and he is a good guy, a great climber, and I totally respect and admire him, yet I'm sure that folks would just tar and feather him, burn him under a magnifying lens, etc., for what he does in that quarry up yonder. climbers are weird.

brotherbbock

climber

So-Cal

Mar 14, 2019 - 01:40pm PT

^^^Yes they are...

I find most climbers to be totally annoying by the way...

One time a dude was telling my old man that a mountaineers coil was not a good way to coil a rope or that his figure 8 was not a good belay device. He starting talking about statistics and other sh#t why my pops and me were just trying to enjoy a little climbing break by swilling a couple beers.

I just told him no worries my pops has been doing that since the 70's when he climbed in Jtree every weekend as a kid and he's still here to talk about it. I trust my old man to belay me more than anyone and I'n not worried about the rope getting fukd up while he does it.

That dude had no clue how close he was to getting bitch slapped across the jaw from both of us.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Mill Valley, Ca

Mar 14, 2019 - 03:05pm PT

He ain't dead. He posts here as Socalbolter.

I was referring to Reardon, knott Anderson.

i-b-goB

Social climber

Nutty

Mar 14, 2019 - 04:05pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]
The (Rock) Police!
There's a fossil that's trapped in a high cliff wall, that's my soul up there

KP Ariza

climber

SCC

Mar 14, 2019 - 04:09pm PT

And Bachar I suppose.
And for what it’s worth, Werner never said there were bolts on Thriller.

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Mar 14, 2019 - 04:35pm PT

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=856159&tn=20

Hubbard

climber

San Diego

Mar 14, 2019 - 07:16pm PT

In the spirit of things, does anybody question if Herman Buhl did in fact reach the summit of Nanga Parbit? Donini? I have an old book that shows a summit photo with an ice axe and a background that seems questionable. Later books omit this photo. Modern technology could triangulate and prove the issue if there is one.

Hubbard

climber

San Diego

Mar 14, 2019 - 07:21pm PT

Same question with Annapurna.Summit photo looks like they are on a slope. No background to verify. Did the French lie? The commonwealth made the summit of Everest for sure. Was Austian Buhl under pressure in post world war two nationalist competition for 8,000 meter summits?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 14, 2019 - 08:08pm PT

There are quite a few summits you would be a fool to tread upon the uppermost limit.

hamie

Social climber

Thekoots

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:06pm PT

So I'm still curious as to why Bachar supposedly used a crowbar on "Thriller". Anyone?

Also where and why was he flattening bolts?

Fake news????

Kalimon

Social climber

Ridgway, CO

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:11pm PT

Here comes the punch line . . . "ain't no luck, I learned to duck."

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Mar 14, 2019 - 10:42pm PT

climber egos? say it ain't so.

Inner City

Trad climber

Portland, OR

Mar 15, 2019 - 12:14am PT

I grabbed a bolt hanger one time....jeez, shoot me..

jeff constine

Trad climber

Ao Namao

Mar 15, 2019 - 07:31am PT

I rapped down Refiners F to have a look, the holds were dime edges wall was STEEP. did not look passable.

WBraun

climber

Mar 15, 2019 - 07:41am PT

curious as to why Bachar supposedly used a crowbar on "Thriller"

In a nutshell ....

Crucial hold that was flexing was later reinforced with glue.

The same hold was also used to gain the Force to the left of Thriller.

Miraculously the broken hold still allowed both boulder problems to be done after the crowbarring although became a bit more difficult.

Kauk did the first ascent of Thriller after John repeatedly failed to do it over time.

I was Kauk's spotter the day he did Thriller.

Now Kauk got the FA of both of these highly sought after boulder problems (at the Time), Midnight Lightning and Thriller.

After the reinforcement of glue to the hold and after the Punchline fiasco (smashed bolt hangers) John felt again he needed to take some imaginary command.

Chappy caught him with the crowbar red handed coming from Thriller.

I goes far deeper and you don't don't need to know that far ......

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Mar 15, 2019 - 07:47am PT

Hubbard...I don’t question Buhl and I didn’t question Maestri. They both had enviable records of accomplishments in the mountains. When I climbed the first part of Maestri’s claimed route on Cerro Torre on my way to Torre Egger I found that, in fact, he did lie. His lie is almost the exception that proves the rule...the confirmed lies in alpinism over the past century can be counted on the fingers of one hand. By the way, I still have no reason to doubt Buhl.

When someone ckaims to have done something far and away beyond what they have done in the past that is unwitnessed, I have every reason to have doubt.

Murf

climber

Mar 15, 2019 - 08:25am PT

I'd love to hear if anyone has actually sent this rig (and I mean anyone ):

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106704943/zen

Enhanced holds:

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/114573342/new-reality

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

Mar 15, 2019 - 09:06am PT

I haven't seen Refiner's Fire, nor do I know Louie.

However, I do know Boone well, and climbed with him a fair amount. His technique is very good, and at that point in time, he was about as good as anyone around at climbing on small holds. So his view that it wasn't doable would hold a fair amount of wight with me.