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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Maybe not, it’s with a shot...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Is it really worth rolling the dice?
Wouldn't any Democrat who is in the running right now be better than Individual 1?
There's a reasonable likelihood Trump will be very competitive in 2020...why not get behind someone who has a strong likelihood of kicking his ass?
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Yes like Bernie or someone like him. The time is now. Tired of bland no real change rich get richer crap. Every time a real sh#t stirrer with real promise & the balls to try and get it done is in the running, people wring their hands and say “oh lord now is not the time”, Every time! Our current president may be the worst ever, but now is the time to vote your hopes not your fears. Otherwise the fukers always seem to win. Again, no more vanilla blah blah blahh, it’s time to go big and get risky...
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Treezypoof
Trad climber
Cyberia
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Of course, I didn’t really leave for the day, lol.
Don’t be defeatist, Ap.
Bernie could have beat Trump in 16 and avoided a lot of this seemingly irreversible degradation we’re experiencing if not for sabotage by the corporate Dems and the media.
I don’t trust Booker or Harris farther than I could throw them with my raging tendinitis.
Biden either, he needs to stand down. Warren doesn’t stand a chance.
I don’t care if he drops dead 2 years in from an enlarged heart. He’ll pick a quality VP and actual “best people”.
Let’s do this.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"it’s time to go big and get risky..."
It's exactly that kind of thinking that got us Trump in the first place.
I'm sure we both agree that we are tired of the lack of real change that we've seen in our lifetimes. However, there is ideal, and then there's real. And the real is that if Trump remains reasonably competitive, and the Dems roil around like they always do, it's going to mean 4 more years of one of the worst presidents this country has ever had.
It's not 'defeatism', treezy. It's reality.
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Treezypoof
Trad climber
Cyberia
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Seems like you’re roiling.
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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I concur: Let’s do this!...
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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apogee:
"it’s time to go big and get risky..."
It's exactly that kind of thinking that got us Trump in the first place. No, a selection of trusted, smack in the middle candidate without charisma and with a lot of baggage gave us Trump.
Considering growing polarization of American politics, a candidate left of Hillary (but well right of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar) has a good chance of beating Trump.
Hillary v.2 and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez with Ilhan Omar as VP candidate would give us Trump v.2.
Can you think of any Democrat that meet the above criteria?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Yury, I'm referring to the Bernie-istas who couldn't get past their idealism to see the real possibility of a Trump presidency. They pouted and stayed home on election day (or voted for Johnson), contributing to this shithole president.
Even more than 2016, I'm most interested in a candidate who can win. I'm not especially excited about any of the Democratic candidates right now...but more time could convince me.
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Treezypoof
Trad climber
Cyberia
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Well I hope your implication isn't to pin that sh#t on me, man. That would be inaccurate.
I'm sure that if that really did happen on the scale you think it did, most of those people learned a very painful lesson.
Whatever polls are worth, many of them showed that Bernie could have taken on Trump.
He's not interested in taking utility weapons from responsible owners and has a very pragmatic view on whether we can just allow limitless asylum seekers to show up and get on the dole. Of course his solutions involve looking at our role in the root of the problem on the supply side.
Other shenanigans that were new in 16 have been exposed. Donald can't afford very many defectors.
Regardless, I think we're basically on the same side and agree that the status quo is a failure. Not interested in infighting, so peace.
Bernie 2020
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I very much doubt that the majority of those who stayed home or voted for Johnson have 'learned a lesson' from 2016. The rabid left is just as short-sighted and impulsively driven as the rabid Right. A repeat of 2016 is absolutely possible, with those same people being swayed by promises of free education, 70% tax rates on the rich, Medicare for all...and then staying home when the person promising them unicorns doesn't make it to the big show.
BTW: Republicans remain at 88% approval rating of Trump. And he has plenty of red meat issues to throw at them to get them to the polls. A whacknut far left candidate only provides more red meat for him.
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Treezypoof
Trad climber
Cyberia
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Well let me know if you want a bumper sticker, I have a couple extra.
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Treezypoof
Trad climber
Cyberia
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Well that’s assuming a lot. The having of a mind part, I mean.
Pretty funny/sad to see the old timers embrace meme culture.
How embarrassing.
Make Humor Funny Again
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Only a skeezix like Shotgun Joe Biden could plagiarize a British Labor Party leader's speech for an American democrat.
"Just go out on your porch and fire a couple of shots in the air."
His finger on the button doesn't reassure me any more than the orange tornado.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Mar 10, 2019 - 08:28am PT
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What's a skeezix?
Are you really equating Biden with Trump? Really?
Really?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2019 - 12:53pm PT
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So Bernie is getting pretty old. So what? If you think his ideas are good for most of us working people, why shoot that down and accept vanilla bull sh#t when it comes to real, meaningful change, or even worse? He seems pretty fit, passionate, and sharp to me. He could very well sail through 8 years with nary a health concern. And even if something horrible happened, that’s what you have the VP for, whom presumably would share the same idealism.
If a president keeled over with a heart attack, that would probably be a best case scenerio. You put the VP in and go on.
I think a worse case scenerio is you have a president in poor mental health who sits around spending 40% of his time watching TV and isn't motivated to do things like reading briefing papers. But is still making decisions about what country to bomb next. And still seems with it enough that the cabinet won't invoke the 25 admemdment.
I think Reagan and Trump are at least borderline cases. Neither Reagan at the end of his presidency, nor Trump now, appear as mentally sharp and quick as they were 15 years earlier. Mental decline can be gradual but is cumulative. Just how bad would the mental decline have to be before something is done. If the president claims to be in great mental health and shows no sign of resigning, how much of a basket case would they have to be in to get something done?
Just how bad would Reagan or Trump have to be before supporters could agree to put the VP in instead.
When would republicans remove Trump because of deteriorating mental health? Really, what would it take?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2019 - 12:55pm PT
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No one is talking about Ruth Buzy Ginsburg running for President. She is hardly able to get in and out her seat at the SC , for crying out loud.
"... morbidly regular topics of national discourse"
No, but she has a mentally stressful job, and appears to have aged pretty well. Nevertheless, I don't think she would currently be up to being president.
Both Biden and Sanders would be older than RBG is now, by the end of the second term. I think it highly likely either would be in worse shape than RBG is now.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2019 - 01:06pm PT
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Nobody thought that John McCain being 72 was an issue in when he won the Republican nomination in 2008. If he had won and won re-election, he would have left office in 2016. One year later, in 2017 he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. That could have already been affecting him in 2015/2016.
You can have brain problems, like tumors, at any age. But brain problems go up with age.
If Biden gets sworn in, he will be six years older than McCain would have been sworn in.
Bernie is older yet.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Mar 10, 2019 - 01:10pm PT
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All solid points, August.
...
The sometimes fractious Democrats...
lol
Democrats need to remember for once that winning isn't everything - in this case, it's the only thing. Better a flawed but electable candidate than a perfect, loser candidate.
Hear, hear.
winning...
I'll believe it when I see it.
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