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moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 8, 2019 - 05:31am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

I hope she won’t lose her enthusiasm as she learns the ropes.

Moose
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 8, 2019 - 05:33am PT
Start the Alexandria video, HIT Pause, TURN OFF THE SOUND on the "Alexandria" video 1st & THEN HIT PLAY HERE, then re-start the 'AOC' video[Click to View YouTube Video] for the best fit; for the syncopation of it
start the dancing above 1st, turn off the sound, hit play on this "Dire Wolf" pick. (Please share on FacePlant:Facebook)









Moosedrolls picture-prefer-perfect:
The Thighs have it, hur hur hur


Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 8, 2019 - 05:46am PT
She's the perfect lighting Rod for Jody, Ed, Hermit and the Trump boys. Kind of like when your driving with your wife and you're falsely offended by a female wearing very skimpy and inappropriate clothing. "Honey look at that"! "I can't believe it...do you see that"? "How does she get away with this"?

How many times do you think Jody has watched that video? I'll pray for him.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 8, 2019 - 06:40am PT
Is it 1983 all over again?

Looks like early MTV tripe.

Rep. Ocasio is the only redeeming feature... and the mascot's uncanny similarity to Penny's Brain. Perhaps he's the brains behind Sandy's beauty.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 8, 2019 - 08:14am PT
Really worthy of a thread? Alexandria, Egypt would have been.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 8, 2019 - 08:21am PT
the repugs are scared to death of her.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 8, 2019 - 08:23am PT
If she was fat and ugly would anybody be watching that video?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 8, 2019 - 08:36am PT
She wouldn’t make it as a belly dancer in Alexandria.
clockclimb

Trad climber
Orem, Utah
Jan 8, 2019 - 08:39am PT
The site I first saw this on reported that a Repugnican had dug up that video and posted it as evidence she was too fluffy for Congress. Talk about envy!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 8, 2019 - 08:44am PT
the repugs are scared to death of her.

The moderate Dems are the ones quaking in their boots.

I watched the 60 Minutes. She's very likable. Pretty. Engaging. Doesn't talk like your typically well-scripted politician. But then she started talking about 100% renewable energy in 12 years, how being "morally right" excused her ignorance and likening herself to Lincoln and Roosevelt.

She's a dingbat. Merely the distraction du jour.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 8, 2019 - 09:00am PT
Reilly, I believe it was the Republicans that dugout that video. So, who is the creep?

If you believe the video was "dugout" by Republicans or that conservatives were somehow upset by the video, you got trolled by some fake news.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-dance-video-media-claims

Happens to most of us these days, but we should keep an open mind and acknowledge when we get snookered.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 8, 2019 - 09:03am PT
Beto/Alexandria in 2020.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 8, 2019 - 09:34am PT
lol, blahblah uses fox as his source of credibility

jody and his hannity cult will be wringing their hands over her for a long time

Unless you're completely incapable of any sort of independent thought, you don't need to rely on any credibility of Fox; you simply need to perceive that:
1. Libs made a claim that conservatives were outraged by the AOR dancing video, and she herself repeated those claims, and
2. There's no evidence of that.

Not everything requires accepting credibility. Some things can be understood by using very simple reasoning.

AOR repeating the lie may show something about her fidelity to the truth, but it doesn't seem like that's even an issue, she basically admits to being an unrepentant bullshit artist. I assume she'll have a long and successful career as a populist / politician.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 8, 2019 - 09:40am PT
I hope Cortez , the commy socialist , doesn't end Trump's tax cuts for the rich program and stop the flow of money that's been cascading down on us poor peoples ....I still owe on that Walmart flat screen TV.....MAGA
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 8, 2019 - 09:53am PT
Alexandria's my latest hero, this summer I'd like to take her climbing. :)
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jan 8, 2019 - 10:03am PT
No doubt, she is the Democrats' corollary to Palin. No organized brain activity to speak of--just random thoughts and butterfly chasing.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 8, 2019 - 10:07am PT
Yes...Too bad Alexandria isn't a genius with all the best words...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 8, 2019 - 10:20am PT
Who’s ‘RG’?

Planning a trip to the real Alexandria. Prolly not gunna find any Pho Keene but
plenty of gud shawarma and moussaka.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 8, 2019 - 10:24am PT
I certainly support some of her ideas about soaking the rich more, but she needs to be a bit more careful about keeping the facts straight.

I think Reilly’s observation above—about how we probably wouldn’t be talking about her if she wasn’t, um, telegenic—is uncomfortably true.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 8, 2019 - 10:28am PT
Palin makes AOC look like a genius. The OC probably actually knows how to read. That makes her a threat.

Maybe if the OC was more dour, paranoid and ignorant, the tRumptards could relate. Happily dancing in college clearly disqualifies her from the GOP doomsday cult.

Any true 'Merican patriot is stockpiling food and ammo in the bunker right now, 'cause clearly we are being overrun.

Thank God for the uber-rich. They can relate.
Climberdude

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
Jan 8, 2019 - 10:30am PT
Conservative minds are exploding, even on this site, over AOC.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 8, 2019 - 10:34am PT
There is a GREAT greek place for moussaka near a mosque in Santa Clara, across the highway from the Webex/Cisco tower. I could really go for that right now.

Pretty good spot for a politician to be if the worst thing that opponents can say is that she is attractive, or make assumptions about her intelligence or other qualities based on her appearance. A little militancy on the left is important to help balance the spectrum of our nation that has been ridiculously tilted in the caveman direction.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 8, 2019 - 10:58am PT
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 8, 2019 - 04:02pm PT
No organized brain activity to speak of--just random thoughts and butterfly chasing.
Don't be so hard on yourself.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 9, 2019 - 06:48am PT

Dear Ocasio-Cortez: It’s Not Because You’re a Woman of Color. It’s Because You’re an Idiot.

Dear Socialist Barbie,

Congratulations on your quick rise to political success. In a world full of stuffy old codgers spouting nothing but focus-grouped talking points, you came in like a wrecking ball. A Prada-pump, Armani suit-wearing, wide-eyed wrecking ball. Based on some of your delicious tweets, you seem to think criticism of you stems from your fashionable penchant, your racial heritage, or your reproductive wonders down under.

Allow me to address each assertion.

Sure, sure, there are plenty of people who’ll take aim at your pricy wardrobe, considering you’re a socialist champion for the working class, who rocks those four-figure business suits. But what Venezuelan slumlord doesn’t have a direct line to Versace?

Yes, I suppose even in our current cultural climate where any whiff of racism is stamped out by the social media Gestapo, there may be a few errant racists who have a problem with your caramel macchiato skin tone. Personally, I think it’s lovely. Were I a woman of color, that color would be “uncooked chicken skin.” It’s winter.

Then as advanced as much of our culture claims to be, there are still plenty of sexists lurking about, sharing all their opinions on what women should be, what women should do, how women should behave, what their ideal body type is, when and how they should smile, et cetera, et cetera, lather, rinse and get left-swiped. So yes, it’s possible some of the hate you’re receiving is due to being a girl.

But let me reassure you, most of the criticism thrown your way from right-wing sites such as ours has nothing to do with your racial makeup or gender identification. No, we make fun of you because it’s painful not to. We start each day saying “We really need to choose our Cortez criticism carefully” only for you to come out blindfolded, swinging at logic with Hillary’s first model broomstick.

Some examples:

Last Friday, you threatened Donald Trump Jr., who mocked you with a meme, by donning your best mobster impression and threatening him with a subpoena. All for the crime of jabbing you online. Which is rather a big boo-boo no-no. Governmental thugs flexing their muscle to intimidate political enemies was one of the reasons we flipped our finest middle digits to the controlling Brits, thus becoming the glorious nation of America. A fact an incoming Congresswoman should know.

Before that, your besties in media were forced to fact check your Medicare claims. It’s fine to exaggerate numbers when you’re complaining about how many people are grocery shopping the week of Thanksgiving as you try finding a parking spot somewhere in your state. But when you ALL CAPS some big numbers about government programs, expect people to point and laugh at your burning pantsuited posterior.

Then there was the time Jake Tapper asked you how you’ll pay for all that free stuff you promised voters. You hadn’t a cogent answer then, nor did you later when asked similar questions and you delivered this adorable answer: see Alexandria Cortez Can’t Answer How She’ll Fund Government Proposals.

See Alexandria, you’re a fantastic moron. A glittering jewel of colossal brain farts. Yes, you are undoubtedly passionate, but you’ve channeled that passion into terrible ideas and a sense of entitlement. Personally, I find it delightfully fresh to see a new politician running to Twitter to peck out her raw thoughts, unfiltered, unchecked, unencumbered by things like knowledge or a simple double-checking via Google. Like over the weekend when you said the Constitution said nothing about presidential age limits for ladies. Aw!

I’ll give you credit at least once, though. You were able to call out the silly double standard of New York’s tax system when Bezos’ Amazon made its new headquarters announcement. The only problem was your failure to see the problem of government providing kickbacks to business, a foundational tenet of socialism, which allowed Amazon the wiggle room to make New York its second home. A socialist bashing socialist practices. Well-played.

Here’s the thing, Alexandria, those are just a few examples of either your intellectual shortcomings or your inability to read. Whether you truly believe what it is your saying, or refuse to verify the veracity of your claims, criticism of you is fair game.

Were you a finely dressed gentleman with the racial makeup of powdered sugar, we’d find mocking you just as enjoyable. Though perhaps we wouldn’t call you BuzzFeed Barbie. Maybe BuzzFeed Ken. We’ve already used Pretty Young Thing for Justin Trudeau. Who we also mock for his bad ideas and keen sense of hair. Equality.

Anyway, the thing is, what I really mean, yours are the sweetest bug eyes I’ve ever seen.

No, wait, what I meant to say is next time you’re feeling the conservative heat, usually delivered in the form of riotous laughter, take solace in knowing it’s not because you’re a “strong” woman of color who’s just challenging the status quo. It’s just because you haven’t figured out you’re dumber than a breadbox.

But keep doing you, boo. We do get a kick out of it.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 9, 2019 - 07:53am PT
Funny how the airhead is more knowledgeable than the reactionary critics.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez shocked the political establishment by defeating a machine politician in a New York Democratic primary for Congress last June. Ever since then, Republicans and conservatives have been trying to smear her as a know-nothing socialist ditz unfit to sit in the House chamber with all those gray-bearded sages who have made the House such a model of reasoned and informed debate...

In the interview, Ocasio-Cortez argues for raising the top federal income tax rate on the richest Americans to as much as 70% from the current 37% and using the money to convert the country to renewable energy.

Conservative heads exploded. House Minority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) accused her on Twitter of wanting to “take away 70% of your income and give it to leftist fantasy programs.” Right-wing anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist implied that the “expropriation” of 70% of “your production” was coming uncomfortably close to “slavery.” Pro-Trump commentator Ryan Fournier declared that he was “not going to work my ass off for the rest of my life for 70% of my income to go to the government.”

All three, and anyone else speaking out in this vein, displayed their rank ignorance of how the federal income tax works. That’s the charitable explanation of their reaction. The only other explanation is that they know how it works, and they were lying about her proposal. (Ignoramuses or liars? You make the call.)
https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-aoc-taxes-20190107-story.html
dirtbag

climber
Jan 9, 2019 - 08:16am PT
Power Crux, I vote for ignorance


Since about age 18, I’d guess.

:-P
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Jan 9, 2019 - 08:20am PT
Does this mean Mexico's gonna pay for the wall, after all?
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 9, 2019 - 08:21am PT
well then post up your climbing video and prove us wrong
he doesn't have one, but he does have a picture of him holding hands with ted cruz.
WBraun

climber
Jan 9, 2019 - 09:32am PT
Trump says he's cutting off FEMA money for California fires.

Oh oh .....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 9, 2019 - 09:43am PT
Werner, don’t start one, not that anybody could now.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 9, 2019 - 10:53am PT
And I bet that she thinks it is actually 70% also.

You'd be wrong. Again!
dirtbag

climber
Jan 9, 2019 - 04:32pm PT
Collusion?!?!

You betcha!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/09/collusion-case-against-trump-just-got-lot-stronger/?utm_term=.d68ac7f59a45
Aeriq

Sport climber
100-year Visitor
Jan 9, 2019 - 04:38pm PT
May you continue to dance your way through life & the political maze, AOC.

You are the first politician in a while

to made me smile.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 9, 2019 - 04:49pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Jan 9, 2019 - 04:53pm PT
^^^Do you have a point?^^^
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 9, 2019 - 10:24pm PT
I hermit no point neither

Never heard of Hunter Avalloney before, when living white in his moms basement allowed him an Alt- right`r Crishtian bully MEGA-phone.


that is the most hypocritical POS trailer trash low brow un-educated
reducer of truth to lies Ive seen.

not that I spend any time ever looking at any of that sort of thing; biotch

& it is not that he don't not know squat, he knows that his white boi ass is buttered by the supremacy of hate speech and bigotted/Nazi leaning crap
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 9, 2019 - 10:34pm PT
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jan 9, 2019 - 11:45pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Jan 10, 2019 - 07:44am PT
“Incels”: now there’s a group of winners for ya.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 10, 2019 - 08:16am PT
If y’all wanna stop frothing temporarily here’s the straight poop on how she will save the country.
Turns out we’re only talking about 16,000 people and that in the big scheme of things it don’t
amount to that much money, but it is a good attention getter. Tackling fiscal propriety and
Pentagon waste isn’t as flashy but it would be immensly more meaningful.

https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-aoc-taxes-20190107-story.html
dirtbag

climber
Jan 10, 2019 - 08:44am PT
All true Reilly, but the fact remains that if you’re going to talk about “waste,” you must address incels.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 10, 2019 - 09:47am PT
incels watch that video regularly...with lots of lotion and tissues around...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 10, 2019 - 09:52am PT
dirt, pardonnez moi, didn’t know this thread had morphed into the human waste realm.
Speaking of which I gotta run - gonna waste half a day looking for a stoopid boid.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:25pm PT
So, Jody...if Trump declares a 'National Emergency' to build his wall, you will be good with that?

In spite of the loud, raucous ranting from the Right when Obama used his Executive powers for similar purposes?

Or is this somehow....different....this time?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:40pm PT
In spite of the loud, raucous ranting from the Right when Obama used his Executive powers for similar purposes?

What similar purposes?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:54pm PT
Funny how elastic the principles are of those on the right regarding Executive Power, depending on who is in the WH at the time.

Well we’ll likely find out just where some of those lines lie when this issue gets to the courts... and the SC, in particular. Of course, everything should be just fine, since that’s what Trump paid for with Kavanaugh.

The knife cuts both ways...can’t wait to see the Dems swing that blade!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:55pm PT
I think the basic problem of a "wall" is the fallacy of it's effectiveness without also calculating the much more massive cost of patrolling it 365dx24h and having the excess capacity to put men with rifles anywhere within 15 minutes along something over 1000 miles long. Also have to factor in rebuilding destroyed/compromised sections, finding tunnels, etc...

It would seem to me that removing all entitlements to come here illegally and ending the failed war on drugs would be the only effective option. Start a war on Drug-Use. Decriminalizing all drugs and applying that money towards education and rehabilitation programs for people who want to quit. Allowing people who abuse drugs and don't want to quit to wither and die is part of that. You'd kill the cartel financing overnight. Let Phillip Morris and Anheuser-Busch spin up more stateside poison factories, legally. Treat it like poison with clear warnings and no advertising or marketing allowed but controlled enough so that dosages are known and the products are a known quality.

Or keep failing at what we've been doing for 50+ years...



Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 10, 2019 - 12:59pm PT
^ ^ ^

Preaching to the choir
&
the deplorable who are the low un-educated unreachables...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 10, 2019 - 05:28pm PT
Jody, principles are something you stand by no matter who is in power.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 10, 2019 - 05:39pm PT
Oh, this should be good....


Michael Cohen will testify publicly to Congress
Donald Trump's former lawyer has implicated the president in campaign finance crimes. He will testify on Feb. 7.
By JOSH GERSTEIN and MARTIN MATISHAK 01/10/2019 03:31 PM EST Updated 01/10/2019 07:45 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/10/michael-cohen-to-testify-to-congress-1096507

Michael Cohen, Donald Trump's former lawyer who has implicated the president in campaign finance crimes, will testify publicly to the House Oversight Committee on Feb. 7.
mynameismud

climber
backseat
Jan 10, 2019 - 05:53pm PT
Facts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/23/obama-executive-orders/

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/false-executive-orders/

https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders

https://bigthink.com/natalie-shoemaker/obama-issued-a-total-of-277-executive-orders

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/executive-orders

https://www.factcheck.org/2014/07/obama-and-executive-overreach/

dirtbag

climber
Jan 10, 2019 - 06:03pm PT
Michael Cohen, Donald Trump's former lawyer who has implicated the president in campaign finance crimes, will testify publicly to the House Oversight Committee on Feb. 7.

Popcorn time! 🍿🍿🍿

He hasn’t been reticent lately in describing his days with Donald.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 10, 2019 - 06:56pm PT
Trump is trying to take native Texans' land from them via eminent domain to build his wall...Hopefully the Bundy posse is mounting up and on their way for another armed stand off with the federalis...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 10, 2019 - 07:16pm PT
Jody will be right there, shooting back at the Bundys, rj.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 10, 2019 - 07:42pm PT
Aeriq

Sport climber
100-year Visitor
Jan 10, 2019 - 09:20pm PT
Nice post, Biotch - that spew from Hunter Avallone was only tolerable for about 25 seconds.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jan 11, 2019 - 01:14am PT
^^
dirtbag

climber
Jan 11, 2019 - 06:34am PT
Hang on tight folks, it’s about to get quite bumpy in the next two months.

Rosenstein says he leaving in the next few months, but he has said not before the mueller investigation is wrapped up. So, the investigation, which Giuliani expects will be “horrific,” should be ready by spring. Even if it is not released immediately, congress would likely subpoena it, and there is case law backing congress’ ability to do this.

Meanwhile, Dems are gunning for small dick’s taxes. Trump’s legal team vows to fight, but Mnuchin says he would comply with a subpoena for them. And as already mentioned, Cohen will testify publicly next month before congress in a few weeks.

Serious impeachment discussions will likely be coming soon. A political sh#t storm greater than or equal to watergate, and unlike any other of our lives, is imminent.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 11, 2019 - 07:06am PT
Except for the "shitstorm" will be about how they whole investigation has nothing on Trump and will be about the corruption of the Dems and the COLLUSION between Hillary, The Obama administration, and the DOJ/FBI.
haha hajust delusional
but
no removal
penishead would blanket pardon everyone & He & his wife would then run and get in.
play chess, Jody?
this is how our great democracy that was sold off to China decades ago, dies.
As you whites try to hang on,
if you all want a wall pony up buy all the land,
get that? you can not just take it
You, not We or the taxpayers or the border landowners, should have to pay.
TuRdddd said Mexico WILL pay Will Pay Cash as part of the deal, That was A written plan....not just his lying

This is like it was after the "Civil War" If It mirrors slavery it will be 100-year war
never-ending & brutal
Brutal.to women, no education for children& all colors will have to die
Mongrel nations will be all that arises, 'cept russia
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 11, 2019 - 07:17am PT
"We are entertained by the cheerful, energetic, outspoken, idiot"


Oooops..you almost surprised me for a moment...thinking you'd be talking about that guy in the WH....silly me.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 11, 2019 - 07:19am PT
Except for the "shitstorm" will be about how they whole investigation has nothing on Trump and will be about the corruption of the Dems and the COLLUSION between Hillary, The Obama administration, and the DOJ/FBI

Maybe it has nothing on trump. We will see. There is a ton that has been revealed anout his campaign. But only a fool would bet trump has clean hands about anything. He’s been a full fledged crook his entire life.

The rest of that post is tin hat nonsense.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 11, 2019 - 07:49am PT
Jody, I don't understand how a reasonably intelligent person like yourself can be so blind to obvious realities.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 11, 2019 - 08:18am PT
Jody, I don't understand how a reasonably intelligent person like yourself


hahahaha
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 11, 2019 - 09:41am PT
Trump warns of invasion as he tries to pitch crisis on the border
By REBECCA MORIN 01/11/2019 12:04 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/11/trump-invasion-border-crisis-1097589

President Donald Trump on Friday claimed there is an "invasion" and "humanitarian crisis" along the southern border, as the government shutdown has stretched into its 21st day and as Trump weighs declaring a national emergency to secure funds for his border wall.

"Humanitarian Crisis at our Southern Border. I just got back and it is a far worse situation than almost anyone would understand, an invasion! I have been there numerous times - The Democrats, Cryin’ Chuck and Nancy don’t know how bad and dangerous it is for our ENTIRE COUNTRY...." he wrote in a tweet.





Now it's an invasion....Jeebus frickin' cripes.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 11, 2019 - 10:32am PT
HMMMMMM? Per this article in Time, the Texas border town that Trump visited & others don't think they need more walls. They need better checkpoint secuity.

On Thursday, Trump hosted a roundtable at a McAllen Border Patrol station with Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen, local law enforcement officers and local officials including McAllen Mayor Jim Darling. Displayed in front of the President was a table filled with seized contraband, which included over $300,0000 in cash, “gold-plated and diamond encrusted” machine guns and large amounts of methamphetamine and heroin. U.S. Customs and Border Patrol (CBP) agents pointed out all of the items were spotted or apprehended at various legal ports of entry and checkpoints, including Laredo POE.

CBP officers also showed Trump blown-up photos of tunnels that were dug to get guns and drugs across the border. Neither border patrol agents nor President Trump explained how a border wall would help stop the flow of drugs through tunnels and legal ports of entry.

McAllen Mayor Jim Darling, who is not affiliated with a political party, tells TIME that even if it was not Trump’s intention, the roundtable appeared to make the case for increased funding at legal ports of entry instead of the wall.

“I thought that showed that ports of entry are working,” he says. “I understand he’s trying to make a point, I’m a little theatrical myself, most politicians are. I understand that, I understand why someone would say ‘Okay, those were all confiscated at the point of entry, so what’s that gotta do with people crossing the river?'”

Meanwhile, Julie Hillrichs, spokeswoman for the Texas Border Coalition, a group of border mayors (including Darling), county judges and border communities focused on issues that impact border quality of life for more than 2.5 million people, tells TIME the Coalition believes the real way to increase security at the border would not be a wall, but increased investment in the legal ports of entry that already exist in their area.

“We have never supported the wall,” Hillrichs says. “The Border Coalition has consistently over the years stated we believe the wall is a wasted investment.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/president-trump-went-to-a-border-town-to-prove-they-need-a-wall-residents-say-otherwise/ar-BBS5dzQ?li=BBnb7Kz&pfr=1
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 11, 2019 - 01:19pm PT
Why is this even an issue? Isn’t Mexico supposed to pay for it?

‘Art of the deal’, my ass.

If the guy is such a mega gazillionaire, Then a few billion is chump change. Let him pay for it himself.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 11, 2019 - 01:27pm PT
Why didn’t the GOP give their dear leader with the best words a wall already?

And now the cowards won’t even advance a bill they already agreed to because little Donnie will throw another tantrum.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 11, 2019 - 06:05pm PT
Can't Trump get a loan from Putin or one of his other oligarch buddies...?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 11, 2019 - 06:58pm PT
Jody old boy....I wouldn't be suprised by your fitness...Looks like you're active and living a healthy lifestyle...It's obvious by your postings of your father that you come from good stock...Now prepare for more photo manips...As moose says...he , he...rj
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 12, 2019 - 08:14am PT


That's certainly worth $5.7 billion....
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 12, 2019 - 08:38am PT
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 12, 2019 - 09:00am PT
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 12, 2019 - 10:29am PT
It works until the cheese ones get a 50 dollar angle grinder and cut through to the carmel side in 10 minutes. The carmel ones are actually paying for the angle grinder from their insatiable appetite for yellow cheese powder which they buy by the ton. They also hand out free carmel treats for life once the cheese kernels breech the wall.

Since everyone knows all the Swiss butter ones are armed to the teeth and there's nothing to be gained there, nobody bothers them.
capseeboy

Social climber
portland, oregon
Jan 12, 2019 - 11:02am PT
it can be said that every driver in california has exceeded the speed limit at some point in time

since everyone is guilty

why does anybody get a speeding citation

A friend, much more versed in bureaucracy, told me they don't write tons of tickets because they actually loose money on writing people up, and that the only way they could make a profit off of ticketing would be to have direct access to the offenders bank account. Kray Kray times.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Jan 12, 2019 - 04:40pm PT
https://www.facebook.com/ForAmerica/videos/2234986623431427

'Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (NY-14) wants you to know that people seeking to enter our country illegally are 'more American than any person who seeks to keep them out ever will be.'"
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 12, 2019 - 05:30pm PT
It works until the cheese ones get a 50 dollar angle grinder and cut through to the carmel side in 10 minutes. The carmel ones are actually paying for the angle grinder from their insatiable appetite for yellow cheese powder which they buy by the ton. They also hand out free carmel treats for life once the cheese kernels breech the wall.

Since everyone knows all the Swiss butter ones are armed to the teeth and there's nothing to be gained there, nobody bothers them.
-fear

LOL!
dirtbag

climber
Jan 13, 2019 - 05:42am PT
Yeah, this is exactly how someone with nothing to hide behaves.

President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-has-concealed-details-of-his-face-to-face-encounters-with-putin-from-senior-officials-in-administration/2019/01/12/65f6686c-1434-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?utm_term=.bcabcf61796b


But it’s all the deep state’s fault.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 13, 2019 - 10:14am PT
Trump and GOP taking messaging hit on shutdown
New polls indicate the American public is putting the brunt of the blame on Republicans.
By MARIANNE LEVINE and JOHN BRESNAHAN 01/13/2019 10:27 AM EST Updated 01/13/2019 12:36 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/13/government-shutdown-republicans-trump-1098723

President Donald Trump and Republicans are losing the messaging war on the government shutdown.

The shutdown is now the longest in U.S. history, entering its 23rd day, and there appears to be no end in sight. As Trump repeatedly declares he won't reopen the government unless he gets funding for his border wall, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) are adamant that they will not fund the project.

Trump’s message on the shutdown — blaming Democrats for refusing to concede on his border wall — isn't convincing the American public. Instead, the majority of Americans think Trump and Republicans are at fault for the shutdown, according to two new polls. A Washington Post-ABC News found that 53 percent of respondents blamed Trump and Republicans in Congress for the shutdown, while 29 percent blamed Democrats. Thirteen percent of respondents said both sides were equally to blame.

Another poll from CNN found that 55 percent of respondents blamed Trump, while 32 percent blamed Democrats. Nine percent blamed both sides.

Trump's disapproval ratings are also rising, with the CNN poll showing his overall rating getting worse by 5 percentage points since the shutdown started.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 13, 2019 - 06:11pm PT
Hey, Jody...looks like you are in an ever-shrinking minority of Americans regarding the true responsibility for this shutdown....
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2019 - 08:26pm PT
Jody is still trying to figure out how his favorite candidate's father helped kill Pres Kennedy.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 14, 2019 - 07:20am PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jan 13, 2019 - 06:11pm PT
Hey, Jody...looks like you are in an ever-shrinking minority of Americans regarding the true responsibility for this shutdown....

Support for the wall is increasing. Still less than half. But support is 42 percent, up 8 points from a year ago.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 14, 2019 - 07:35am PT
Support for the wall is increasing. Still less than half. But support is 42 percent, up 8 points from a year ago.

next you'll be telling us that trump's popular rating is 75%.
WBraun

climber
Jan 14, 2019 - 07:38am PT
Oh, his rating is 100% according to which individual you talk to.

We know yer all "Closet Trump" supporters.

The minute he does something that you agree with you all will come running ....
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 14, 2019 - 07:48am PT
I doubt it would truly help the immigration issue, but if Trump wants to find the $$ somewhere other that the US coffers to fulfill his campaign promise, that's fine with me.

Will you take issue with all the private land that will have to be claimed through eminent domain in order to build it?
John M

climber
Jan 14, 2019 - 08:25am PT
How about slicing the pork from the military? The conservatives raised the military budget by 82 billion from 2017. But you don't hear them offering to lower that.

As far as eminent domain, I hadn't really thought about that. But at first glance, it doesn't seem like the amount of land taken would be all that much.

As for the land grab.. it appears that you haven't looked at it very hard. The Bundy's were just one family, but you cared about them. Why don't you care about the people who have and would lose their homes along the border?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 14, 2019 - 08:40am PT
Jody, there are a sh#t-ton of land owners along the border that are quite upset about the loss of lands. It is a lot more than a ‘few feet’ to build, manage and monitor such a barrier.
John M

climber
Jan 14, 2019 - 08:42am PT
JohnM, it is a narrow ribbon of land. A few feet wide at most. If there is a home smack dab on the border, build the wall around it.

This is very ignorant.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/04/us/eminent-domain-us-mexico-border-loop-family/index.html

this is just one example. Scroll down to third picture. Let it zoom in. You will see how the river, which is the border, zigs back and forth. With the kind of wall Trump and the conservatives want to build, zigging back and forth would increase its cost 10 fold. Perhaps then you can understand just one of the concerns about building a wall. We are only guessing when we say 30 billion to build it. Its likely to be Hundred plus billion dollars if we build the type of wall that Trump wants. and a wall isn't that hard to breach.

There are many families like this. Some have already sold out. Some got seriously screwed the last time there was a big push to build the wall. They sold the land one side of the fence, but were stuck with the land on the other side, leaving it less valuable. If you understand how to make farms profitable, then you would understand this.

This is not a simple proposition. I am not completely against imminent domain, but it should be fair. At this point the government doesn't seem to care if someone's land gets split and that makes it less valuable. The wealthy get lawyers and get paid well. The poorer folks often get screwed. Thats not fair. If you are going to use imminent domain, then it should be fair for everyone.

....

Take the money from the military.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 14, 2019 - 08:43am PT
And...the few feet wide at most...

Have you researched land status and do you know how that pertains to the wall zone?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 14, 2019 - 08:43am PT
Back to Alexandria Palin-Cortez.


That is pretty funny.

lol

Not as dumb as as Bush Jr I'd reckon but close...

Really though, what truly intelligent, productive, non-sociopathic(or at least benevolent) person would want to get into puppetry?
John M

climber
Jan 14, 2019 - 08:55am PT
you didn't study it, but you were quick to complain that liberals wouldn't spend money on it.

Take the money from the military.

............
Edit:

vvvvvv hopefully you are talking about Jody's statement.. we posted at the same time.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Jan 14, 2019 - 08:55am PT
Boy, you can't fix stupid
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 14, 2019 - 09:01am PT
if the Dems are socialist then anybody supporting Trump ( collusion ) is a communist...Right ?
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 14, 2019 - 09:02am PT
JohnM, it is a narrow ribbon of land. A few feet wide at most. If there is a home smack dab on the border, build the wall around it.

once again, jodie shows us he is as ignorant af.
jodie, knows nothing of the topography of the land. furthermore, you gonna build a wall in the middle of the Rio Grande?
wheatBeer

Social climber
TheBronx
Jan 14, 2019 - 10:53am PT
socialism=today's Democratic Party

Democrats are 1000 times better than the United Russia Party/US Republicans.

GOP = Criminals, Lies, Corruption

tRump lies 30 times a day to Americans

tRump doesn't want a wall, he wants tRump Tower Moscow

Federal workers working without a paycheck is SLAVERY (Illegal, Unethical, Immoral)


Jody, stand by your man and go to prison with him.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 14, 2019 - 10:53am PT
"So, it IS about the money."


To my eye, the wall makes little sense because of the incurred cost, the fact that is a transparent political ploy, it involves huge pieces of land that are privately owned &/or create significant environmental impact, and there isn't clear evidence that it's effective against the problem: illegal immigration.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 14, 2019 - 04:27pm PT
Trump spoke to “Fox & Friends” in 2013 and was asked who would be fired during a government shutdown.

“Well, if you say who gets fired it always has to be the top,” Trump said. “I mean, problems start from the top and they have to get solved from the top and the president’s the leader. And he’s got to get everybody in a room and he’s got to lead.”

He said that further down in history, “when they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/369756-trumps-comments-blaming-obama-for-2013-government-shutdown-resurface

I swear the man has dementia. For the Trumpists here, that's defined as Severe cognitive impairment. But then to be be fair, it strongly appears most Trumpists also have dementia.



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 14, 2019 - 05:31pm PT
Truth isn't truth...
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 14, 2019 - 05:45pm PT
Alexandria, Egypt? That place is a stinky sh#t hole, with garbage and raw sewage everywhere. You can smell Alexandria from 15 miles away.

As for the congresswoman...

It is NOT inappropriate to call a president a "mother f*#ker."

However, it IS inappropriate to call that mother f*#ker in the White House a "president."

I just wrote to Donald. Asked him how he liked being Putin's bitch.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 14, 2019 - 07:30pm PT
President Individual 1.

Makes me so proud.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 15, 2019 - 09:11am PT
sorry, jodie, but it was inevitable

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-female-president-190114063930734.html?fbclid=IwAR0s6Ah3zcDIgvt1ATIFPu3sLzwvQ1zY-SLfGpIr1KEPaOt483HuRFCGp-Y
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 15, 2019 - 04:49pm PT
Anyone see Pat Buchanan's editorial opinion on the wall? He said that the wall was necessary to maintain white male domination in America, and he warned about the evils of a multiracial society in which women and minorities played a more important role. AOC must be making him squirm in his tighty whities.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 15, 2019 - 04:52pm PT
Pat Buchanan, Donald trump, Steve King, and David duke drink from the same punch bowl.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 16, 2019 - 09:32am PT
In my ST banner ad this morning:


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 16, 2019 - 09:38am PT
Dood! CMac has you TOTALLY figured out! 🤣
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 16, 2019 - 12:37pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Jan 16, 2019 - 12:45pm PT
Pelosi to trump: no speech for you!

This is why I supported Pelosi as house leader: she is the master!


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pelosi-asks-trump-to-postpone-state-of-the-union-address-because-of-government-shutdown--or-deliver-it-in-writing/2019/01/16/f1c3026c-199b-11e9-8813-cb9dec761e73_story.html?utm_term=.586d7fe63a1d

Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 16, 2019 - 01:43pm PT
Estimate Jody's IQ.

Go
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 16, 2019 - 02:16pm PT
^^^

You know, Jody's political views are dogmatic as hell and seemingly based on emotion, not reason.

But childish attempted personal attacks say more about your IQ than they'll ever say about his.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 16, 2019 - 02:50pm PT
But childish attempted personal attacks say more about your IQ than they'll ever say about his.

Boy, howdy, not to mention class. Adults agree to disagree. Ted Kennedy and John McCain
were best friends as were Antonin Scalia and Ruth Ginsburg.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 16, 2019 - 03:05pm PT
She’s only requesting that Trump postpone his speech...Trump would undoubtedly say FU to that, since part of her motivation would be to not allow Trump a megaphone for his blather.

Interestingly, though, I read an opinion piece in the National Review today by a stalwart conservative, who is definitely not a Trump or Pelosi fan- he felt that Pelosi, as Speaker, should specifically tell Trump that he was not invited to the House to deliver the SOTU.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 16, 2019 - 05:01pm PT
Why does everyone naturally assume that it's low? You could have it tested. It might even shock you.
It's an anti-intellectual wet dream in here

(Mtnyoung, it says 1/2000 about mine, but you knew that already)
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 16, 2019 - 05:53pm PT
Has Trump tweeted anything about Pelosi dissing him from the SOTU?

I would have expected an instant, reactive response from the thin-skinned POTUS. Maybe he knows he’s met his match...
dirtbag

climber
Jan 16, 2019 - 06:02pm PT
I expect he’ll stew on it a bit longer then get busy tweeting tomorrow at 4 a.m.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 16, 2019 - 06:22pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 16, 2019 - 09:12pm PT
She has a loooooong way to go to become anywhere near as slimy as the guy in the WH right now. Right now, her worst offense is being unrealistically idealistic.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 16, 2019 - 09:16pm PT
^^^

Who's hero?

"Who" means nothing in this thread, there are at least 20 people posting to it.

I lean left on more political issues than I lean right on (and there are a few of the latter). I'm only rabidly "left" on one issue that I can think of (protection of wilderness).

I post some on this thread.

Am I a "who?"

I don't mean to be obtuse here, Jody, but our political situation in this country is not, most emphatically not, just black and white. There are tons of people, tons who THINK FOR THEMSELVES. People who weigh facts and compare multiple points of view. I'm one of them.

She's not my hero (although I admit that it is nice to have someone way to that side of the spectrum; it seems like good balance and a bit of a change).
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 16, 2019 - 09:18pm PT
It's all relative, especially in today's politics.

She'll likely run up against reality, which will temper this kind of stuff. What's the harm in it, anyway? It's not like she has a long history of sexual abuse, or buddying up with white supremacists, and some of the worst dictators on the planet.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 16, 2019 - 09:18pm PT
^^^

And yeah, actually, I probably did mean to be obtuse.

Keep up the discussion though.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 16, 2019 - 09:20pm PT
Apogee hits the nail on the head.

Is there any functional difference between her far left views and the far right views of the so-called "Freedom Caucus?"

10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 16, 2019 - 09:23pm PT
You know, Jody's political views are dogmatic as hell and seemingly based on emotion, not reason.

But childish attempted personal attacks say more about your IQ than they'll ever say about his.

Brad, jodie is the king of ad hominem attacks on his political opponents, here on st.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 17, 2019 - 07:11am PT
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction

Jan 16, 2019 - 09:23pm PT

Brad, jodie is the king of ad hominem attacks on his political opponents, here on st.

King?

Only if you ignore the leftwing hater-bois, who constantly post from the gutter.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 17, 2019 - 07:34am PT
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has canceled two upcoming events in Los Angeles and New York as she recovers from surgery in December that caused her to miss oral arguments at the Supreme Court earlier this month.

The 85-year-old jurist was scheduled to appear at Los Angeles' Skirball Cultural Center on Jan. 29. The 92nd Street Y in Manhattan also confirmed that a conversation between Ginsburg and financier David Rubenstein slated for Feb. 6 is being rescheduled.

Hmm
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 10:11am PT
Hmmm, is right.

She's a tough old bird, though...she knows better than anyone what another SCOTUS appointment by this administration would mean for the future of the country. I have a feeling she'll stay right in that court until they carry her out doing CPR.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 10:13am PT
Trump holding off Pelosi counter-punch
The president is so far staying uncharacteristically silent after Pelosi's State of the Union power play.
By ANDREW RESTUCCIA 01/17/2019 12:09 PM EST Updated 01/17/2019 01:11 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/17/trump-pelosi-letter-1108470

President Donald Trump and his aides like to say that when he is attacked, he punches back 10 times harder.

But more than 24 hours after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi delivered an explosive letter calling for the postponement of the State of the Union address, Trump and White House officials are staying largely silent — and that's by design.

White House officials, who were caught completely off guard by the letter, have made a strategic decision to ignore it, and neither the president nor senior officials are expected to publicly respond, at least for now, according to two people familiar with the matter. A White House spokeswoman did not respond to a request for comment.

Trump aides are still weighing next steps and trying to determine whether Pelosi is willing to force the cancellation of the speech. In the meantime, an angry outburst from the president would likely only give the matter more oxygen.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 10:23am PT
^^^Unless Individual 1 is duct taped to a chair in a hidden closet in the White House and his iPhone smashed into a billion pieces, it won’t work forever.^^^
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 10:29am PT
I'm kinda looking forward to his ranting response, esp. if Pelosi specifically disinvites him. He can only heed his advisors so long, then an explosion of yellow custard is gonna tweet right outta his arse. And Pelosi will just stand there, smiling....
dirtbag

climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:01am PT
Some of our trolls here could learn some things from Pelosi.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:07am PT
Why, cause she’s a pro?
dirtbag

climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:15am PT
Yep. She’s partly right about having a state of the Union speech during the shutdown, but mostly she is trying to get under his skin for the sake of political theatre, and it will work.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:36am PT
Individual 1’s response:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/17/trump-pelosi-letter-1108470
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:43am PT
Touche'


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:47am PT
That's hilarious!


Jeebus, it's like we're back in 7th grade or sumthin'. I'm sure that wasn't his first impulse...that strategy came from a cooler head.

No doubt, Pelosi will rise above this, and easily out-class this d#@&%ebag.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:50am PT
What a response! Trump is denying Pelosi a trip to Afghanistan, someplace Trump doesn't have the balls to visit.

He must care about her safety;)
dirtbag

climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:52am PT
🍿🍿🍿
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 11:56am PT
Damn right it's real. Just like the rest of the stoooooopid shite that's come out of the WH in the last two years.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 12:08pm PT
Well, he took the bait though he hasn’t (so far) thrown a public tirade.

Still, Pelosi for the win.
Chaz

Trad climber
Jan 17, 2019 - 12:17pm PT
I say we should raise their pay to a million dollars a year - on the condition that they all stay the F out of Washington.

Think of the trillions we'd save, and all the good use it would be put to.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2019 - 12:19pm PT
Gud one, Chaz!
nah000

climber
now/here
Jan 17, 2019 - 12:20pm PT
hahahaha... amazing!

it appears ole trump and the gang were at least one letter off... because to be more currently correct it should have been

MADA: “make america dickless again” [metaphorically speaking of course]

or maybe MAALSA: “make america a laughing stock again”

cause if there’s a way that trump could have possibly spelt out how little power and/or leverage he has [outside of releasing his tax returns... ha!] then this was probably it...

pelosi’s toughest job is going to be keeping a straight face at the next press conferences.



man... you’d have to be a special kind of stupid to think you’re “winning” when you sign a letter like that...
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 17, 2019 - 12:31pm PT

…man... you’d have to be a special kind of stupid to think you’re “winning” when you sign a letter like that...

Yeah, you and I see it that way.

But don’t make the mistake of thinking that “…special kind of stupid” matters to his supporters.

It’s hard to hide how utterly immoral he is. And how he uses fear constantly, instead of trying to alleviate it. Hatred? Check, he uses that as a normal, everyday tool. Corruption? Utterly. This president may literally be the most corrupt in American history.

But it doesn’t matter. To his “base,” he’s THEIR lying, cheating, dumb and utterly immoral con-man. THEIRS. He’s “ON THEIR SIDE.”

Emotion, not logic.

Human nature.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 12:42pm PT
Somebody needs to start a 'Nancy Pelosi Appreciation Thread'.

Or maybe not.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 17, 2019 - 01:17pm PT
Somebody needs to start a 'Nancy Pelosi Appreciation Thread'.

To further illuminate leftwing myopia?

You guys ate it up when Pelosi trolled Trump. Then when Trump responds in kind, he's trashed.

Political leaning determines what's offensive. Is that hypocrisy?

-----------------------------------------------------------


Regardless of issue and party I think all of Congress and Executive Branch, and all their direct employees, should forfeit their pay for the any shutdown periods; without exception.

Winner!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 01:34pm PT
"Political leaning determines what's offensive. Is that hypocrisy?"

Probably, to some degree. But it's also about damn time that the 'leaning' that's been going on for the last two years with Republicans in the WH, Senate and HoR received a little 'leaning' back the other direction for a while.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 01:42pm PT
Ocasio-Cortez hosts Twitter 101 for Democrats
By MATTHEW CHOI 01/17/2019 10:17 AM EST Updated 01/17/2019 11:59 AM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/17/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-twitter-democrats-1108045

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), who has rocketed to fame with her liberal platform and social media savvy, led a crash course on how to use Twitter for fellow Democrats on Thursday.

"Class was in session this morning! I was thrilled to offer some insights on Twitter and social media to my. colleagues this morning," Ocasio-Cortez wrote on Twitter, where she has 2.4 million followers.

"Now Majority @WhipClyburn is teaching me what all the bells mean in the Capitol," she added, tagging Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.).





This can't seriously mean she was actually teaching these guys about what a 'selfie' is, was she?
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 17, 2019 - 03:17pm PT
Wtf is wrong with pelosi? This just adds fuel to my argument that NO ONE over the age of seventy should hold public office.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 03:34pm PT
Elaborate, 10b.

Personally, I think it was a perfect strategy.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 17, 2019 - 09:29pm PT
Elaborate, 10b.

Personally, I think it was a perfect strategy.

apogee, my beef with pelosi is that she wants to take an overseas trip. She does not need to go, especially during a government shutdown. She played right into trump's hands.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 09:41pm PT
From what I understand, Pelosi’s trip has been in the making for several weeks now. How does that play into Trump’s hands?

I have a hard time giving him any credit for having foresight about the events of the last few days. The guy is nothing but a thin-skinned reactionary.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 09:45pm PT
Jody, am I safe to assume you are as much of a Pelosi-hater as the seemingly vast majority of Trump voters?

What is it about her that creates so much hate? Does she have a corruption record, or is it simply the fact she’s been effective as Speaker in pushing an agenda you don’t like?
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 17, 2019 - 09:47pm PT
How does that play into Trump’s hands?
the optics are not good. she bitches about trump not agreeing to open the government, yet she wants to leave town. she, nor any politician should leave town.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 09:50pm PT
Interesting.

I can say something similar about McConnell, but at the same time I have a lot of respect for his effectiveness in pushing his agenda, even if it’s somewhat Machiavellian.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 17, 2019 - 09:53pm PT
Except that this trip has been in the works for several weeks now. I’m sure she considered the blowback that Trump would do something childish like that, but the optics of him being so petulant, at the cost of goodwill related to Afghanistan, was likely worth the price. That’s my guess, anyway.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 17, 2019 - 10:03pm PT
Not a fan of Christie, but. . . . .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/16/chris-christies-new-book-infantilization-trump/?utm_term=.793c4372445f
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 18, 2019 - 06:29am PT
From what I understand, Pelosi’s trip has been in the making for several weeks now.

Except that this trip has been in the works for several weeks now.

Several weeks? The shutdown has been going on for almost fours. Pelosi played a key role in making it happen.

She brought the trip cancellation on herself.

Pelosi and Schumer have been completely uncooperative on any deals involving increasing border walls/fences. This is a complete flip from their support of previous legislation to expand border fences. This drama isn't about illegal immigration. It's about sticking it to Trump.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 18, 2019 - 07:06am PT
Trump reneged on a deal for the wall a year ago.

The truth.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 18, 2019 - 07:21am PT
Bet he wants it back now, eh Jody?

Too late, DACA was upheld by courts, Dems won the House.

Your Master Negotiator president is pitiful in the political world.

The truth.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 18, 2019 - 07:31am PT
PC, take a deep breath and relax a bit. It is still early.

LOL!!
WBraun

climber
Jan 18, 2019 - 07:33am PT
PC will have a power drain by the end of the day ....
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 18, 2019 - 07:45am PT
I've been to 57 states."
-Barack Obama
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Jan 18, 2019 - 07:48am PT
Antichrist for the laugh of the day. Hilarious! Not all would go to the wall, however. So there's that. I did see clips of Feinstein and Pelosi sounding all mean and conservative about illegal immigration and enforcing the border. Such raging hypocrites. It's all about power. They know that illegals, once they get established--i.e. their kids, vote mostly dem, so their current stance is way more about long term power control than anything else. Folks, you cannot be too cynical about Washington. It is a swamp. The these people are swamp creatures. Ugh.

BAd
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 18, 2019 - 08:29am PT
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
Jan 18, 2019 - 08:38am PT
They are crossing where there is NO WALL.

And they're crosssing where there IS A WALL. 5.6 billion dollars does not cover the depth of a wall. Invest in shovels, you won't regret it.
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
Jan 18, 2019 - 08:41am PT
Digest this. However, Trumpie's may not have the endurance and/or intelligence to read. But keep those memes comin'!


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/?fbclid=IwAR2OfiFeEi8Shtit5Se3UTRujexLhu7o-bQdYaqClhD3IjErHZnZc02URmw
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 18, 2019 - 09:21am PT
Truth?

Trump voters can't handle the truth.

This should not even be an issue if Trump would actually do what he said he was going to do: build a wall, and make Mexico pay for it.

And if that happened, Trump voters, how would you feel about the eminent domain issues it would create when the federal gov't grabbed tons of private land?

10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 18, 2019 - 09:38am PT
And if that happened, Trump voters, how would you feel about the eminent domain issues it would create when the federal gov't grabbed tons of private land?

as long as it's not in their back yard.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 18, 2019 - 09:42am PT
worked with a woman whose family has owned a ranch along the border for a couple of hundred years. After the Mexican War the border went right through their ranch. So far they have access to all of their property, but what if the wall comes along?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 18, 2019 - 09:42am PT
"This drama isn't about illegal immigration. It's about sticking it to Trump."


If Trump or his voters are even the slightest bit surprised this has degenerated the way it has, they are only confirming their complete naïveté around politics.

The politics on this issue have been juvenile from the start- if Trump had any political savvy whatsoever, he would have initiated his wall months and months ago, when he had the Senate and HoR on his side. To wait as long as he did to pursue a central element in his campaign was extremely poor judgement.

Tying his wall to the federal budget bill was a bad gamble that he is now dramatically losing in the court of public opinion. More bad political judgement.

Of course the Democrats are going to fight him on this, and they will use every tactic they think will work, including using the same slimy power plays that Trump has been using for the last two years. That's politics, folks....Trump-style politics.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 18, 2019 - 09:46am PT
^^^^^
"as long as it's not in their back yard."


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 18, 2019 - 09:49am PT
Trump criticizes Pelosi for attempting to see troops in Afghanistan
By REBECCA MORIN 01/18/2019 09:33 AM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/18/trump-pelosi-troops-afghanistan-1111117

President Donald Trump criticized House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Friday for attempting to visit troops in Afghanistan as the government shutdown continues with no end in sight.

"Why would Nancy Pelosi leave the Country with other Democrats on a seven day excursion when 800,000 great people are not getting paid," the president tweeted.





President Donald Trump visiting the troops in Iraq on December 26, 2018...5 days after the government shutdown began.



How's that truthy thing working for ya?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 18, 2019 - 10:19am PT
President Donald Trump visiting the troops in Iraq on December 26, 2018...5 days after the government shutdown began.

Of course, when Trump was in Iraq there wasn't an active effort to end the shutdown.

Were any members of Congress working (or even in DC) at that time?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 18, 2019 - 10:38am PT
Aren't you splitting some awfully fine hairs, there, Edward?

If Pelosi had visited the troops 5 days after the shutdown began, I'm sure we'd be hearing loud rants about how she's off on the gov't dime while 800,000 employees are out of work.

Trump's rants about Pelosi's trip are the purest form of hypocrisy. (Let the deflection begin.)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 18, 2019 - 10:44am PT
President Trump has the moral high ground, as he always does against the Democrats.

fa·ce·tious
/fəˈsēSHəs/

adjective

treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

"a facetious remark"

synonyms: flippant, flip, glib, frivolous, tongue-in-cheek, waggish, whimsical, joking, jokey, jesting, jocular, playful, roguish, impish, teasing, arch, mischievous, puckish; More
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 18, 2019 - 11:01am PT
Per:

Trump criticized House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Friday for attempting to visit troops in Afghanistan.


Our "coward in chief" doesn't have the balls to visit dangerous Afghanistan.

It's gud Pelosi doesn't have balls.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 18, 2019 - 11:14am PT
Aren't you splitting some awfully fine hairs, there, Edward?

You mean the huge difference in circumstances?

And speaking of deflection, your efforts to rationalize Pelosi's sleazy tactics crack me up. Keep 'em coming.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 18, 2019 - 11:29am PT
Edward, this is politics. If you were expecting honesty and ethical behavior, you should get involved with the Catholic chur....

Waitaminit. Nevermind.
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
Jan 18, 2019 - 11:51am PT
Somebody needs a nap. "OUR" Presidunce....

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 18, 2019 - 12:08pm PT
A simple equation:

Bragman = Trumpist = dementia
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 18, 2019 - 12:12pm PT
Really? Youse guys haven't figured out bragman yet?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 18, 2019 - 12:25pm PT
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID

Jan 18, 2019 - 12:08pm PT
A simple equation:

Bragman = Trumpist = dementia

Thank you for making sure everyone knows their place.

Especially the obvious trolls.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 18, 2019 - 12:31pm PT
Edwardt! Per your mention:

Thank you for making sure everyone knows their place.

Especially the obvious trolls.


Thank you. I'm happy to see you are doing a little better. I recall you even posted on a climbing thread recently & your obit for John Bogle was wonderful.

You can only heal yourself, from being a heel.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 18, 2019 - 10:43pm PT
Trump to make 'major announcement' on border, government shutdown
By REBECCA MORIN 01/18/2019 06:16 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/18/trump-government-shutdown-announcement-1115995

President Donald Trump will make a "major announcement" Saturday afternoon on border security and what the administration has termed a "humanitarian crisis" on the U.S.-Mexico border, as the government shutdown enters its fifth week.

"I will be making a major announcement concerning the Humanitarian Crisis on our Southern Border, and the Shutdown, tomorrow afternoon at 3 P.M., live from the @WhiteHouse," Trump tweeted Friday evening.





Gee. I can hardly wait.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 19, 2019 - 02:19am PT
Bragman wrote: President Trump has the moral high ground, as he always does against the Democrats.

Can you please give us some inkling as to exactly which issue it is you think trump has displayed a shred of moral fiber? To date he has thoroughly demonstrated he is utterly bereft of the even slightest taint of morality. In fact, he is stunningly candid and proud of what can only be described as completely immoral behaviour.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 19, 2019 - 02:27am PT
... as a simple man guided by Christian faith and a love for my country and family, I am quite easy to figure out.
Agreed, you are easy to figure out:
-Pathetically hypocritical
-Badly misinformed
-Ignorant of the most basic facts

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 19, 2019 - 08:59am PT
Batten, bless his soul, may have met his match in trolldom.

bragman, you da man! Your creel is filling fast!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 19, 2019 - 09:01am PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 19, 2019 - 12:54pm PT
Elfont, you are such a bore.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 19, 2019 - 01:09pm PT
Funny cause that Nazi kid looks....kinda.......like the chosen people.....not that there's anything wrong with that. His soul just took a huge beat down
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 19, 2019 - 01:47pm PT
So here's a parallel for how today's 'huge announcement' went today regarding the shutdown:


Consumer goes into a car dealership, needing a car but generally skeptical of this dealer as he's well known for reneging on deals, but he's the only dealership in town.

Consumer: I'm considering that car model right over there. What kind of deal can you make me on it?

Slimy Car Dealer: That's a really special car model, and near and dear to my heart. The price includes power steering, a diesel engine, and brakes. I won't go below my asking price, no way.

Consumer: Well, I don't want a diesel. Thanks anyway.

(A few days later)

Consumer: You still have that car model for sale?

Slimy Car Dealer: Yep, and the price is the same. But I'll give you this HUGE DEAL on it: it will have brakes, power steering, a cup holder, and a diesel engine.

Consumer rolls eyes, and walks out.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 19, 2019 - 01:50pm PT
A long article from the San Diego Union-Tribune on the border fence. Something to offend everyone, who knows they're right on the issue.

I picked highlights of interest to me. There is much more at the link.


Here's what you need to know about the border wall

In fiscal 2018, Border Patrol apprehended 6,259 people with some kind of known criminal record. It is not clear how many of those apprehensions occurred on the border with Mexico versus Canada. But even if all of those apprehensions occurred on the southwest line, that would account for 2 percent of total apprehensions there.

CBP breaks down the data by crime type, although some people have multiple convictions.

Just over half of the prior convictions were for illegal entry into the U.S. — a crime often charged as a misdemeanor. About 1,000 were for DUI. Drug and gun convictions totaled about 900. About 500 were for assault, battery or domestic violence, while 328 were for burglary, robbery or theft and 78 for unspecified sexual offenses. Three were for murder.

From Fritz:
If you are stressed-out by the above figures, how many of those criminals are going to be stopped by a wall? And how many were stopped at the Canadian border?

Also:
A 2018 study by the libertarian-leaning Cato Institute looked at 2015 conviction data in Texas, finding there were 56 percent fewer criminal convictions of unauthorized immigrants than native-born Americans. The rate for legal immigrants was 66 percent below Americans.
The study did show that unauthorized immigrants were more likely to be convicted of "gambling, smuggling, vagrancy and kidnapping" but those crimes account for 0.18 percent of all convictions in Texas in 2015.
Another study published in the journal Criminology last year suggested there was less crime in areas with higher populations of unauthorized immigrants.

Drugs are mainly entering the U.S. through the ports of entry.
The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, the lead agency in multinational drug trafficking investigations, reported in its 2018 assessment that Mexican cartels largely prefer using passenger vehicles and semi-trucks to smuggle hard narcotics through the ports of entry — not through areas in between.

For the first 11 months of fiscal 2018, nearly 67,300 pounds of methamphetamine were seized at the ports of entry, whereas nearly 10,400 pounds were seized by Border Patrol agents at points between the ports, CBP reports.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-border-wall/ar-BBSiHc7?li=BBnb7Kz&pfr=1
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 19, 2019 - 03:30pm PT
It appears our president in trying to push through a 12th century solution,
for what is now a 21st Century problem.

I sigh for our nation.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 19, 2019 - 05:46pm PT
Immigration hardliners blast Trump's shutdown deal offer
By QUINT FORGEY 01/19/2019 05:15 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/19/trump-shutdown-deal-republican-reaction-1116056

Immigration hardliners on Saturday afternoon blasted President Donald Trump's proposed deal to end the government shutdown, attacking his offer of temporary protection for some undocumented immigrants in exchange for border wall funding.

Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) tweeted: "A Big Beautiful Concrete Border Wall will be a monument to the Rule of Law, the sovereignty of the USA, & @realDonaldTrump. If DACA Amnesty is traded for $5.7 billion(1/5 of a wall), wouldn’t be enough illegals left in America to trade for the remaining 4/5. NO AMNESTY 4 a wall!"

“100 miles of border wall in exchange for amnestying millions of illegals. So if we grant citizenship to a BILLION foreigners, maybe we can finally get a full border wall,” tweeted conservative media commentator Ann Coulter, who has repeatedly antagonized the president for failing to erect a barrier along the U.S.-Mexico border during his two years in office.

“Trump proposes amnesty. We voted for Trump and got Jeb!” Coulter added, referring to Trump’s 2016 GOP primary rival, former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who has previously criticized the president’s immigration rhetoric.





Ann Coulter called Trump Jeb Bush....that would be hilarious, except that the thin-skinned reactionary in the WH will probably respond to that needling by doubling down on his stoooopid sh#t.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 20, 2019 - 06:44pm PT
Trump tweets three dozen times on Day 30 of shutdown
The president’s feed overflowed with messages of support from lawmakers, James Woods and Jacob Wohl’s dad.
By QUINT FORGEY 01/20/2019 09:30 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/20/trump-tweet-shutdown-1116078

President Donald Trump rung in Day 30 of the longest government shutdown in U.S. history, as well as the two-year anniversary of his tenure in the Oval Office, with a mammoth 37 posts to his Twitter feed in 13 hours on Sunday.




Thirty. Seven. Times.

Somebody do America a huuuuuuge favor and smash that guy's phone to bits.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 20, 2019 - 07:18pm PT
37 times....? Melania must have taken the french tickler to Mar Lago...?
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 20, 2019 - 09:16pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 20, 2019 - 09:55pm PT
There isn’t much of anything more annoying to a Republican than a Democrat that gets things done.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 21, 2019 - 08:32am PT













the truth is too hard for you apologists

Anyone who wears the red hat, the uniform of the new nazi party needs to be called out!

a KKK & Nazi apologist & a supporter of the dick tater

Fred Trump was a member of the KKK - "the apple has not fallen far from the tree"

Cue Wade Icey Picture share...



fiat.


The definition of a fiat is an order or decree, or any arbitrary order.

An example of a fiat is a legally binding decree that is issued by a king.


If you voted for him
If you support his actions
you are supporting the son of a member of the KKK, who follows Hitlers advice to Lie about everything, all the time

and to
scapegoat
a person who is blamed for the wrongdoings, mistakes, or faults of others, especially for reasons of expediency.

FEED the FEAR OF OTHERS- TO GAIN CONTROL.
Putting people in "Concentration Camps" separating children & interning them, having some of them disappear...
So using Nazi tactics. If you deny or apologize for those policies that behavior makes you, tacitly A KKK & Nazi supporter.



tacitly
in a way that is understood or implied without being directly stated.












apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:07am PT
What happened to the 'nazi' thread? And the 'collusion berder' thread?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:09am PT
They were too PC.

Looks like he's gone, as well.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:12am PT
How Bloomberg plans to create his own lane in 2020
‘Bloomberg’s kind of money buys a lot of loyalty — or at least silence. Anyone else would be toast.’
By MARC CAPUTO 01/21/2019 08:00 AM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/21/michael-bloomberg-2020-election-1116071

White. Male. Old. A Wall Street billionaire.

At first glance, Michael Bloomberg would seem to have zero appeal in a Democratic Party where progressive populism is on the rise and activists and elites say it’s time for a woman or a person of color to win the White House.

But unlike any of the other presidential hopefuls, Bloomberg plays a dominant leadership role on two of the top issues on the minds of progressives heading into the 2020 cycle: climate change and gun control. He’s spent a decade as the nation’s preeminent financier on those issues, buying considerable goodwill in progressive circles. If he runs, those familiar with his thinking say, they’ll be the pillars of his campaign.




At this time, Bloomberg intrigues me more than the rest of the aspiring 2020 Dem herd.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:12am PT
Apogee? Per your post:

What happened to the 'nazi' thread? And the 'collusion berder' thread?
Is that a "rhetorical question?"

Since, I can't believe you don't know what happened to them.

If you have a point, let's see it.
SusanA

Sport climber
Bay Area
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:14am PT
Shout out to the Puerto Rican that is stirring the pot. Go girl!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:16am PT
No, Fritz...it's not rhetorical. I really don't have any idea what happened to those threads.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:20am PT
Apogee! Thanks for your reply.

I really don't have any idea what happened to those threads.


We have very different minds.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:23am PT
At this time, Bloomberg intrigues me more than the rest of the aspiring 2020 Dem herd.

sigh, another billionaire, but. . . . .
he has more disposable income than trump, and I agree with him on climate change, and gun control.
hmm.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:33am PT
He has a cool head and I can most easily envision him being able to stand up to & knock down Trump's wall of bullsh#t. The only other Dem candidate that might have that kind of ability would be Biden.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:33am PT
I can't believe you don't know what happened to them.

Fritzi, we’re not all of us The Chosen but sometime dreams do come true.
I just hope Power Crux gets into that GED program he’s been dreaming of.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:44am PT
She is from NYC and has a BA from Boston University.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:47am PT
We have very different minds.

Subtle.

Thanks for the laugh.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:50am PT
Shout out to the Puerto Rican that is stirring the pot. Go girl!

She's no Rita Moreno.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2019 - 09:59am PT
Trump tweets 40 times on Day 30 of shutdown
The president’s feed overflowed with messages of support from lawmakers, James Woods and Jacob Wohl’s dad.
By QUINT FORGEY 01/20/2019 09:30 PM EST Updated 01/20/2019 11:15 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/20/trump-tweet-shutdown-1116078


President Donald Trump rung in Day 30 of the longest government shutdown in U.S. history, as well as the two-year anniversary of his tenure in the Oval Office, with a mammoth 40 posts to his Twitter feed over the course of Sunday.

The president’s day on his favored social media platform began as most do — with some boasting about the state of the American economy, accompanied by lamentations over its perceived lack of coverage by members of the news media. Through the dizzying day, he would cover a variety of topics with his tweets and assorted retweets, even landing in the world of sports late in the evening.




Forty. Frickin'. Times.

On Day 30 of his gov't shutdown. Truly pathetic.

This guy tweets like the rest of us polititards post!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 21, 2019 - 10:16am PT
whatever you say saint braun,

this place is full -up - a nasty hoard led by a whoemonger`nThief

how is your search for karmic redemption going by the way?
WBraun

climber
Jan 21, 2019 - 11:06am PT
You're more insane than the people you rant against every day.

Refill your meds dude or go see your shrink and buy some glasses with antifog coating .....
dirtbag

climber
Jan 21, 2019 - 02:37pm PT
Who got axed?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2019 - 02:51pm PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2051471&tn=620
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 21, 2019 - 10:00pm PT
He has a cool head and I can most easily envision him being able to stand up to & knock down Trump's wall of bullsh#t. The only other Dem candidate that might have that kind of ability would be Biden.

I agree, and I will throw another name out there, Kamala Harris. she just entered the race. I see her as a female Barack Obama,
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 22, 2019 - 09:22am PT
Ocasio-Cortez says she gives 'zero' f---s about pushback from Democrats
By KATIE GALIOTO 01/22/2019 09:42 AM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/22/ocasio-cortez-criticism-from-democrats-1116699

(Besides the above comments, also this:)

“People called Martin Luther King divisive in his time. We forget he was wildly unpopular when advocating for the Civil Rights Act,” she said. “I think that what we really need to realize is that social movements are the moral compass and should be the moral compass for our politics.”

“I’m sure Ms. Cortez means well, but there’s almost an outstanding rule: Don’t attack your own people,” said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) in an interview earlier this month. “We just don’t need sniping in our Democratic Caucus.”





More 'not helpful'. Inexperienced, idealistic millenials like this who completely close themselves from the useful experience of those before them are foolish, and not in the interests of their own Party.

If AOC was wise, she would tone down her rhetoric, while maintaining an independent stance, and do so utilizing all of the resources around her, of all generations- not just her own. Of course, that would require political experience, something of which she is in critical short supply.

Edit:
Comparing what she is doing to MLK is especially obnoxious and juvenile.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 22, 2019 - 09:52am PT
Just now, in my ST banner ad:


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 22, 2019 - 09:56am PT
What, you don’t cruise, braj?

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 22, 2019 - 10:02am PT
I'd like to think that it's possible to be innovative about change and do it smartly with grace and style, even in politics. The Democrats definitely need a new direction and inspiring leadership, but haven't we all had enough of crude thumbs in the eye?
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 22, 2019 - 01:03pm PT
Nope. She's not running for president (yet...ha ha).
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 22, 2019 - 07:02pm PT
Congress agitates to end relentless shutdown
The Senate is prepping dueling votes while House centrists are pushing Pelosi to counter Trump with her own compromise proposal.
By BURGESS EVERETT and RACHAEL BADE 01/22/2019 12:45 PM EST Updated 01/22/2019 05:40 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/22/house-democrats-pelosi-shutdown-1118986

There's a flurry of movement to end the shutdown on both sides of the Capitol, but no signs that either President Donald Trump or GOP and Democratic leaders are budging enough to end the standstill now on its 32nd day.

A group of centrist House Democrats, sick of political posturing, is pressing Speaker Nancy Pelosi to counter Trump’s immigration proposal with her own potential compromise. The group, led by freshman Rep. Elaine Luria of Virginia, is asking the California Democrat to offer Trump a vote on his border wall or some sort of negotiated security package in February if he first signs a bill reopening the federal government, according to a draft copy of the letter obtained by POLITICO.

And in the Senate, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) forged a deal to allow votes on the president's proposal, which provides $5.7 billion for his wall and temporary protections for some undocumented immigrants, as well as a stopgap bill pushed by Democrats to fund the government into mid-February. But those plans will require 60 votes in the narrowly divided Senate, and each appears unlikely to pass. The Senate passed such a stopgap bill in December, but that was before Trump came out in opposition. Now the president would almost certainly need to endorse it for it to get 60 votes.






The Dem's resolve looks to be crumbling...a bit, anyway. Sigh.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 22, 2019 - 07:10pm PT
If only Trump had embraced the concept of Global Climate Change, he could now point to these 5 thousand person caravans as being the precursor to caravans of hundreds of thousands or even millions of people displaced from the equatorial regions of Central and South America due to heat and drought.

Game of Thrones had it figured out seven seasons ago.

Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jan 22, 2019 - 07:48pm PT
Representative Ocasio-Cortez by all appearances is one of the most all-in activists I have seen recently in public office. A true voice to the millennial generation and one that, if you take time to think about it, matters the most. For the majority of us on this site will not live to see the havoc our generation has wrought on the future generations to come.

Ocasio-Cortez speaks truth to power and to the future of governance in the most direct way possible, a way that both engages and enlists the participation of younger voters and other activists like few others.

Say what you will about democratic socialism and it’s biases or about how one should patiently climb the congressional ladder in order to affect real change, but I’d rather hear this firebrand spout about her positions and ideology than listen to the repetitive blather of the other 434 members in that body.

Incidentally, tearing people down many times gives them more power.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 22, 2019 - 08:02pm PT
"Incidentally, tearing people down many times gives them more power."


So AOC's 'thumb in the eye' to her Democratic predecessors in the House will wind up empowering them? Because that's what she's doing right now.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 22, 2019 - 08:23pm PT
What I find most amusing about AOC, and Trump to be honest, is how each of these extreme personalities have managed to totally disrupt the delicate waltz of the royal courts.

The image that keeps coming to mind of our government is one of a ballroom full of titled and landed gentry wearing their finest of silks spinning around one another with a curtsy here and a bow there, punctuated by the required harrumphs and feigned disdain over this sleight or that, all with the goal of appearing to be functional, but mostly a one-act play that carries on until they retire a millionaire and write a book.

The Dance of the Do Nothings.

Then comes the Orange Haired Bull in the proverbial china store that upends the table, fires the orchestra, poops in the punch bowl and tells the hostess that she is fat and her hat is ugly.

The Royal Court Of Washing Town goes aflutter and the TV pundits clutch their pearls and bemoan the end of civility while the rest of the country laughs their azzes off as the absurdity of it all - don't they realize this is why this buffoon got elected? Doesn't every royal court need a jester - well, we gave you one.

As for AOC, I look at her as the once prim and proper daughter you sent to college who just came back for Holiday break with her hair dyed purple, waving a copy of Mao's Little Red Book and telling you how much you suck for having a 70 inch TV while pygmys are starving in Africa.

You know we'll get though it - but damn if it won't be interesting for a while.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 23, 2019 - 07:32am PT
“And I think the part of it that is generational is that millennials and people, in gen z, and all these folks that come after us are looking up and we’re like, the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don’t address climate change. You’re biggest issue, your biggest issue is how are going to pay for it? — and like this is the war, this is our world war II.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 23, 2019 - 08:31am PT
the world is gonna end in 12 years
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 23, 2019 - 12:15pm PT
Trump taunts Pelosi: I'm giving my SOTU in the House
The president says his speech should be 'delivered on time, on schedule, and very importantly, on location!'
By HEATHER CAYGLE, REBECCA MORIN and JOHN BRESNAHAN 01/23/2019 12:28 PM EST Updated 01/23/2019 02:28 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/23/trump-said-he-still-plans-to-deliver-state-of-the-union-address-on-jan-29-1121068


UPDATE 2:46 p.m.:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Wednesday said she would not pass a resolution allowing President Donald Trump to deliver his State of the Union address from the House chamber until the government reopens, rebuffing the president’s statement that he would move forward with the speech regardless.


“I look forward to welcoming you to the House on a mutually agreeable date for this address when government has been opened,” Pelosi wrote to Trump is the latest volley between the two leaders.

ORIGINAL ARTICLE:

President Donald Trump on Wednesday rejected Speaker Nancy Pelosi's request to delay his State of the Union speech until after the government shutdown ends, intensifying the brinkmanship between the two leaders that has become a centerpiece of the ongoing funding impasse.

Trump said he fully intends to give the annual address in the House on Jan. 29 as was originally planned, a defiant rebuttal to Pelosi's letter last week suggesting the president postpone the speech -- or deliver it in writing -- until the funding stalemate was resolved.

"I look forward to seeing you on the evening on January 29th in the Chamber of the House of Representatives," Trump wrote in the letter, his first official response to Pelosi's missive last week. "It would be so very sad for our Country if the State of the Union were not delivered on time, on schedule, and very importantly, on location!"







Is there any doubt that Trump would keep the gov't shuttered past January 29 just as a power-play spite to Pelosi?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 23, 2019 - 12:28pm PT

yeah well, Nancy can shut off the House lights and allow no cameras

Donald can give his speech in the dark to himself...best speech ever
Sula

Trad climber
Pennsylvania
Jan 23, 2019 - 12:36pm PT
So what's not to love about a cute young gal, short on experience but not on enthusiasm, who uses a gang rape analogy to explain how she'd like to see things proceed?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 23, 2019 - 12:39pm PT
and what's not to love about a US President who pays women to shut up

who brags about grabbing them by the pussy

who is in his 70's and ought to know better

HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 23, 2019 - 01:35pm PT
and what's not to love about a US President who pays women to shut up

who brags about grabbing them by the pussy

who is in his 70's and ought to know better

And, yet you voted for a President who will go down in history as boinking the interns.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 23, 2019 - 02:30pm PT
Looks like Pelosi has officially said 'Not in my House' to Trump's SOTU.

Good for her. Bullies only understand one thing: being hit right back, where it hurts.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 23, 2019 - 10:12pm PT
It's now apparent that Trump and his cronies are prolonging the shutdown because they intend to destroy numerous federal agencies, once and for all.

Since they cannot legislate the end of the EPA and other "snowflake" federal agencies, they hope to refrain from paying federal employees for so long that everyone eventually jumps ship and abandons their federal jobs.

White House spokesmen, including Steve Bannon, have expressed that it is their goal to bring down numerous federal agencies by whatever means necessary.

Of course, the side effect of the shut down is that federal investigations into Trump's private business practices are stalled, and Trump's Russian friends are getting rich again.
Aeriq

Sport climber
100-year Visitor
Jan 23, 2019 - 10:14pm PT


Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside

Jan 22, 2019 - 08:23pm PT
What I find most amusing about AOC, and Trump to be honest, is how each of these extreme personalities have managed to totally disrupt the delicate waltz of the royal courts.

The image that keeps coming to mind of our government is one of a ballroom full of titled and landed gentry wearing their finest of silks spinning around one another with a curtsy here and a bow there, punctuated by the required harrumphs and feigned disdain over this sleight or that, all with the goal of appearing to be functional, but mostly a one-act play that carries on until they retire a millionaire and write a book.

The Dance of the Do Nothings.

Then comes the Orange Haired Bull in the proverbial china store that upends the table, fires the orchestra, poops in the punch bowl and tells the hostess that she is fat and her hat is ugly.

The Royal Court Of Washing Town goes aflutter and the TV pundits clutch their pearls and bemoan the end of civility while the rest of the country laughs their azzes off as the absurdity of it all - don't they realize this is why this buffoon got elected? Doesn't every royal court need a jester - well, we gave you one.

As for AOC, I look at her as the once prim and proper daughter you sent to college who just came back for Holiday break with her hair dyed purple, waving a copy of Mao's Little Red Book and telling you how much you suck for having a 70 inch TV while pygmys are starving in Africa.

You know we'll get though it - but damn if it won't be interesting for a while.

We were just saying this today - the PC culture is the china shop, and Trump is The Bull.

Time to scare the bull...
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jan 27, 2019 - 11:34am PT
McConnell is the roadblock.

DMT

I see McConnell as the symptom not the cause. Republican primary voters are the roadblock. House and Senate republicans are, justifiably, scared of losing their next primary if they cross Trump and his supporters.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 27, 2019 - 11:50am PT
I think the republican voters are more afraid of Ann Coulter circling on her smoking broom flinging curses at the comb - over behind the curtain...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 27, 2019 - 12:18pm PT
Except that McConnell was the Senate leader waaay before Trump's campaign even started. McConnell has been the behind-the-scenes guy who has relatively quietly (relative to Trump, anyway) enacted the will of the GOP for a long time. I don't agree with many of his directions, but he deserves respect for having been as effective as he's been.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 27, 2019 - 02:01pm PT
McConnell is a self-serving coward. He only holds his “position” because he is a willing yes man. I guess that is what the GOP calls leadership these days.
sween345

climber
back east
Jan 27, 2019 - 03:01pm PT


This is getting better all the time.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/01/27/democrats-uneasy-about-potential-howard-schultz-bid/23654096/

It's starting to look like the lineup for a WWE Battle Royale.

Is AL Sharpton in on this yet?

Maybe the winner should get the Alferd Packer Award.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 27, 2019 - 06:58pm PT
Far be it from me to appreciate the outcomes of McConnell's strategies, but they have accomplished his Party's goals to a greater extent than the President. His 'creative' approach to Senate rules & constitutional responsibilities around blocking votes that weren't in the interest of his Party weren't conventional, but they did accomplish his greater goal without any legal challenge. I would raise a similar eyebrow to a Democrat using such tactics, but if it resulted in blocking an intolerable direction, I'd probably let it ride, and have a similar appreciation for that person. This is politics, after all.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 27, 2019 - 07:07pm PT
Assuming the Big T doesn't get the chop from Mueller, I would not be surprised if T stands a better than average chance of being re-elected in 2020.

Not because of anything he has done, but because by the time the electorate wades through 20 or 30 Democratic wannabes that only succeeded in diluting the Electorate down to single digits, this Oaf will be the only one with the votes to cross the line.

It only took one Bernie to suck the juice out Hillary and cost her the win.

What are the Democrats going to do when they have 20 Bernies running next year?

Maybe do it like Woodstock - rent a field in New York and spread it our over three days - the line up so far:

Pete Buutigieg - "I'm from South Bend and I am Gay."
Julian Castro - "wall? my family knows how to dig under the wall dude"
John Delaney - who?
Tulsi Gabbard - "Shaka Brah, me from da Big Island"
Kirsten Gillabrand - "Tiger Mom and damn proud of it...grrr."
Kamala Harris - "yeah, I f*#ked Willie Brown - what of it?"
Richard Ojeda - "I got beat up at a Campaign BBQ, so I know defeat."
Elizabeth Warren - "Kill the bankers and give me my Princess Headdress."
Andrew Yang - "I'm set with my IPO payoff - you need money or what?"

In the wings waiting for a blowjob and an invite -

Cory Booker - "I look gooooodddd"
John Hickenlooper - "I freed weed, I can free you too, woohoo!"
Eric Garcetti - LA, Washington - what's the diff man."

And who can forget those popular tunes from yesteryear -

Bernie "the Bro" Sanders - "Kill the Rich!"

and

Joe Biden - " as if I haven't had enough grief - Jesus"
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 27, 2019 - 07:09pm PT
Obama was at least somewhat culpable for what happened with the Garland nomination in that he repeatedly, naively believed that Republicans would become rational if he remained on the 'high road', in spite of the fact they'd demonstrated repeatedly that they would continue to use whatever dirty tricks they could to block his agenda. Obama had the option to make recess appointment of Garland, after McConnell had made it clear for months that he had no intention in bringing that vote to the floor. Obama chose not to, and McConnell effectively won. And he's still winning, to my chagrin. I don't like it, but I gotta hand it to him- he's an effective politician.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 27, 2019 - 07:22pm PT
A recess appointment would not work for a number of reasons, including the pres and congress could remove Garland by declaring an end to the session.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/12/29/the-real-reason-president-obama-wont-recess-appoint-merrick-garland-to-the-supreme-court/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.53a7f57ec195
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 27, 2019 - 07:40pm PT
Democrats gonna crap bricks when the Notorious RBG drops dead next year and T gets to name a third justice.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 27, 2019 - 08:39pm PT
I have a feeling RBG will be carried out of the SC while CPR is being done before she'll ever step down from the SCOTUS. Let's all hope that doesn't happen.

But if McConnell is presented with another Trump pick for a SC justice, you can bet that he'll move on it quickly, in spite of the fact that, according to the George Mason Law Review link contained in monolith's article, the Senate has no Constitutional responsibility to consider a SCOTUS nominee.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2823802

Much as Garland's treatment disgusted me (and others), McConnell likely knew the legal realities of his inaction. Recess appointments aside, when your opponent is smart, you have to think smarter- savvy political action could have avoided handing a SC opening to Trump on a silver plate.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:04pm PT
Howard Schultz, ex-CEO of Starbucks will run as an Independent per WaPo - add him to my previous list of Democrats.

Dilution, dilution, dilution.

To kill off the Trumpasaurus in 2020, you need a bold and singular Dragon Slayer.

So far, the Democratic list of candidates is just a roadside diner All-You-Can-Eat menu of appetizers and day old pie.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:12pm PT
The heavyweights are biden their time.

One obvious tactic for the Democrats in 2020 - assuming that they're running against Trump - is a younger, strong candidate. Probably someone in her/his 50s, with significant but not too much government experience. The visuals alone will devastate Trump.

None of Warren, Sanders or Biden fit that description. And Sanders isn't really a Democrat. (O'Rourke ain't got enough experience.)
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:18pm PT
^^^^You're not hinting of Beto O'Rourke are you? He's good at streaming dental hygiene ads online, but for President - not yet I think.

But your idea of Media Star versus Media Star does have me thinking. I'll get back to you after I catch up on some Prime Time Network Television...

Who is this "Kanye" person anyway? Been hearing some mumbles of that name...
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:19pm PT
I read an article that said trum[ thinks he would lose the election if the dem candidate was Biden, Warren, Harris, or. . . . . Beto O'rourke.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:37pm PT
Warren can't win. (Unless California significantly increases its "ballot harvesting" goals.)
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:39pm PT
Bloomberg may be more of the same boring old white people, but watching him go mano a mano with Trump would be worth the price of admission.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:54pm PT
Biden, Warren - will there still be enough old codgers kicking around willing to elect more 70 and 80 year olds to run this company?

I got it with Bernie - the under 40 crowd loved the old guy - he was like the crazy uncle who had gone to Woodstock and was a hippy and read Marx and all that cool sh#t from the sixties. Not so sure they will go for that icon a second time around now that they have graduated and have jobs.

Biden's got the vulnerable family woes issue and Warren is just too frantic to capture people for more than a week. Kamala Harris - hard time winning when no one can pronounce her first name correctly. Plus she's from California, too many states still hate that.

Beto's cool and all, but he can be easily turned away by a good offer to star in some NBC Sitcom.

The Democrats need a modern version of Jack Kennedy - suave, erudite, fashionable, young enough to be hip but old enough to have some gravitas.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 27, 2019 - 09:58pm PT
^^^^ Nice!

Pretty pathetic that Dems will take all the billionaires’ money they can get but, mon dieu,
they don’t want one to run and dilute the covey of little people.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 28, 2019 - 07:39am PT
Bloomberg may be more of the same boring old white people, but watching him go mano a mano with Trump would be worth the price of admission.
I agree, and he may have more dirt on trump than any other candidate.
I am beginning to think the dems need a candidate that goes mano a mano with trump. Give him some of his own medicine, so to speak.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 28, 2019 - 11:31am PT
A serious campaign by Howard Schultz would be the surest way to see 4 more years of Trump.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 28, 2019 - 12:14pm PT
Pretty pathetic that Dems will take all the billionaires’ money they can get

but not worth mentioning that the Republicans will take all the billionaires money they can get
---------------------

Beto O'rourke cannot win the nomination and the Presidency because he has very little political experience.

Oh wait, Donald Trump proved that one wrong.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 28, 2019 - 01:05pm PT
Norton, quote the whole sentence! It is assumed the Repubs will take and run billionaires, no?
And the Dems have been very happy to have Kennedys and Kerry as candidates, why not Bloomberg?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 28, 2019 - 01:10pm PT
CBO says economy lost $11 billion during shutdown

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 28, 2019 - 01:13pm PT
CBO says economy lost $11 billion during shutdown

Thank you Donald...

and Chuck...

and Nancy.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 28, 2019 - 01:15pm PT
This would have been a whooole lot cheaper for everyone if Donald just did what he said he was going to do:

Build a wall, and make Mexico pay for it.

Easy-peasy, cheap and sleazy.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 28, 2019 - 01:19pm PT
Democrats gonna crap bricks when the Notorious RBG drops dead next year and T gets to name a third justice.

jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 28, 2019 - 01:41pm PT
Please, no more billionaires running for pres.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 28, 2019 - 02:10pm PT
They don't even know the price of a gallon of milk....

Milk is cheaper now. But, I wouldn't expect you to know that. :)

In all honesty, milk is highly subsidized. The true price of a gallon of milk eludes all of us.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 28, 2019 - 02:13pm PT
The price of milk is propped up by government subsidies. Dairy farmers are on corporate welfare.

Why is that? Is it maybe that even billionaires know that the price of milk is important?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 28, 2019 - 02:29pm PT
"I think many was hoping Trump would be that person, but he is not a business man, he is a con artist."


Jeebus, if people hadn't figured that out years before he ran for office, they were never going to figure that out.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 28, 2019 - 02:44pm PT
I can see a competent billionaire like Bloomberg doing ok, but Starbucks guy has no experience running a government, and experience matters.

Schultz might succeed as a vote splitter tho.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 28, 2019 - 02:47pm PT
Is anyone here or elsewhere actually excited about Starbucks guy’s candidacy? Honest question.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 28, 2019 - 02:52pm PT
Not me...I have a vague recollection about him expressing interest at some point in the past, but otherwise it's pretty much left field.

Edit
Well, obviously an incompetent 'billionaire' with no gov't management experience can fool enough voters, so Sbux guy could have a shot at it...
dirtbag

climber
Jan 28, 2019 - 03:06pm PT
Sure, but I was thinking of governing, not winning elections.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 28, 2019 - 03:22pm PT
^^^man oh man...what a god awful mess.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jan 28, 2019 - 04:13pm PT
^^^^Do you know if she likes cats? Might be a deal breaker for you depending on her answer.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 28, 2019 - 04:22pm PT
Mighty Hiker is correct.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 28, 2019 - 05:54pm PT
Howard Schultz’s Venti-Size Disaster
A triple-shot of horrible developments in American politics have been poured into one 2020 presidential candidate.
By JEFF GREENFIELD January 28, 2019
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/01/28/howard-schultz-2020-224382


What, exactly, explains why a billionaire former CEO of a coffee chain thinks he can launch an independent run for president in 2020?

Let me float three reasons behind Howard Schultz’s long-shot bid, which he announced in a 60 Minutes interview on Sunday evening, followed by an introductory tweet that met with widespread derision from political insiders.

Reason No. 1 is the notion, at least a century old, that a successful business career suggests presidential timber. It’s why Henry Ford was at one time a leading contender for the White House (he won the 1916 Michigan Republican primary). It’s why Mitt Romney based his 2012 presidential campaign on the strength of his business successes, rather than his record as governor of Massachusetts. And it’s why the fictional portrait of Donald Trump as a firm, decisive business leader on The Apprentice was the key to his political credibility in 2016.

The second development is the now-limitless ability of very wealthy people to spend as much as they want in the pursuit of office. It’s not that wealthy politicians always win—they often don’t. But big money now provides direct access to the playing field. It offers an ability to become a serious candidate with no other asset, such as the potency of your ideas, or a track record of public service, or the support of a significant constituency.

And the third is the powerful draw of “independence,” the idea that an alienated majority is waiting for an alternative to the two major parties.

All three of these notions are either wrongheaded or deplorable. Combining them into one candidacy would not only increase the odds of a second term for President Trump, but it would also encourage other rich people to follow Schultz’s lead. Instead of one Trump, we may be about to see dozens of Trumps.

It’s not that success in business can’t lead to success in politics. Our current president is evidence that one can lead to the other, at least if you define success by winning elections. And Trump’s career of running enterprises into bankruptcy while lying about nearly everything turned out to be an excellent guide to his presidency. Still, the skills to build a successful business tell us little about an ordinary CEO’s ability to work in Washington, with its competing power centers and ideologies. At the least, aspiring tycoons-turned-presidents should test their political skills by running for a lesser office, as Michael Bloomberg, Romney and many others did. Seeking the presidency first suggests, at the least, an excess of self-esteem.

As for the role of money, it’s true that before the 1970s, politicians like the Kennedys and Nelson Rockefeller could dip into their family coffers with impunity. But post-Watergate reforms tried to put sharp limits on the practice. Sadly, barely two years after President Gerald Ford signed these reforms into law, the Supreme Court began to erode them.

In the 1976 decision Buckley v. Valeo, the Court held that any limit on what a candidate could spend in pursuit of office violated the First Amendment. Only two justices—Byron White and Thurgood Marshall—dissented. In his dissent, White wrote that “limiting the importance of personal wealth” would “assure that only individuals with a modicum of support from others will be viable candidates.” It would also “discourage any notion that the outcome of elections is primarily a function of money” and would “equalize access to the political arena, encouraging the less wealthy, unable to bankroll their own campaigns, to run for office.”

Now, four decades later, candidates and supporters alike can put limitless amounts into campaigns through Super PACs and independent expenditures. White’s words seem hopelessly quaint. Under the “money is speech” philosophy begun by Buckley v. Valeo, we can expect the Court to one day declare than the offer of a $100,000 bribe in return for a congressional vote or a presidential order is simply an act of extraordinary eloquence.

And lastly, every election year, polls show that a majority of Americans say they would like to see a third party or independent candidate—and then they never vote for one. The fantasy of a Democratic-Republican unity ticket looks appealing until it runs up against the brick wall of policy. Schultz’s initial ventures into specifics are less than encouraging. Asked what he thought the corporate tax rate should be, he said, “I don’t want to talk in the hypothetical about what I would do if I was president.” Memo to Howard: That’s called “running for president.”

In Schultz’s candidacy, these three troubling developments in American politics—the businessman daydream, the elimination of all limits on money, the independent fantasy—have intermingled to persuade the former Starbucks baron that he does not need to submit the ordinary rigors of political primaries.

Michael Bloomberg’s decision to run as a Democrat is much more appealing. Yes, Bloomberg used his wealth to win and keep the mayor’s office in New York City. (He spent more than $250 million in his three bids.) But he has seemingly concluded not only that an independent can’t win, but also that he needs to persuade a major political party of the virtue of his ideas if he wants to be president. That’s what Trump did, after all.

By contrast, an independent run by Schultz would simply mean that his money was enough to put him on the ballot in the fall, regardless of whether the public was eager for his candidacy. Even Ross Perot in 1992 did not jump into the fall presidential campaign on pure whim; by the time he entered, his TV appearances had earned him a huge and enthusiastic following.

Schultz does not need to be nearly as popular as Perot to prove a disaster for Democrats. Even with a tiny share of a state’s vote, he could deliver key states to Trump. And if he did win a state or two, that could be enough to throw the election into the House of Representatives. (It almost happened in 1948 and in 1968.) Under the arcane rules of that unlikely scenario—one state, one vote—a Republican would have a good chance of winning even if Democrats still had the majority of House members. (Don’t ask.)

Schultz is ignoring what Trump, Bloomberg and Ronald Reagan all came to understand: Under all but the most unlikely of circumstances, an independent run is the triumph of arrogance over wisdom. If he wants to be president, he should win the Democratic nomination first.
TradMike

Trad climber
Cincinnati, Ohio
Jan 28, 2019 - 06:51pm PT
Howard Schultz is running to prevent the DEMs from going too far left.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 28, 2019 - 08:21pm PT
Looking at the gallery of leftist Dems interested in running for president, I'm beginning to feel better about John Kerry.
capseeboy

Social climber
portland, oregon
Jan 28, 2019 - 09:17pm PT
It always seemed weird to me how Kerry was discredited for his military service in Vietnam. It should have made him look good. Seemed like he took a fall. What happened?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 28, 2019 - 09:29pm PT
He was ‘swiftboated’ by Republican dirty tricks, as is their norm. And people believed the lies, as is their norm.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 28, 2019 - 10:17pm PT
I'll vote for anybody that promises to take a bayonet and gut the Pentagon.

Politicians cry that we have no money for education, can't afford to pay teachers or reduce class sizes. We have no money for libraries and fire stations, can't afford to feed poor kids, fix our crumbling infrastructure, Social Security is a luxury we can't afford.

But we can pay $8 billion each for new destroyers we can't figure out what to do with. They've got fancy guns that fire shells that cost $800,000 each!

That sh#t we can afford.
Aeriq

Sport climber
100-year Visitor
Jan 28, 2019 - 10:25pm PT
I have seen some horrible memes about her - stirring hate for the young upstart raises faux conservative hackles!

I think she is awesome and has some much-needed integrity!
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 29, 2019 - 07:14am PT
But,Gary,The Caravans are coming!
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 29, 2019 - 07:35am PT
I'll vote for anybody that promises to take a bayonet and gut the Pentagon.

Politicians cry that we have no money for education, can't afford to pay teachers or reduce class sizes. We have no money for libraries and fire stations, can't afford to feed poor kids, fix our crumbling infrastructure, Social Security is a luxury we can't afford.

But we can pay $8 billion each for new destroyers we can't figure out what to do with. They've got fancy guns that fire shells that cost $800,000 each!

That sh#t we can afford.

couldn't agree more.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 29, 2019 - 08:50am PT
Angry Democrats are planning to boycott Starbucks if former CEO Howard Schultz runs for president. The 65-year-old billionaire has said that he may run as an independent - a move which could peel votes away from whoever wins the Democratic nomination to face President Trump.

Putting it bluntly was a heckler at a New York Barnes & Noble, who told Schultz: "Don't help elect Trump, you egotistical, billionaire as#@&%e."

Love those progressives.

-------------------------------------


On 60 Minutes, he came across as a moderate liberal... not a centrist... as he claims. Nevertheless, he's much more appealing than any prospect in either party. For now, he's got my vote. And probably the vote of a lot of moderate conservatives.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 29, 2019 - 11:50am PT
^^^ He sounds good to me. (Billionaire notwithstanding)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 29, 2019 - 12:16pm PT
So, would he take away more moderate Repubs or more moderate Dems?
The pollsters will charge double for that sh!tshow!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 29, 2019 - 12:47pm PT
Then someone needs to talk Schultz into running as a Democrat.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 29, 2019 - 12:54pm PT
Sounds like the Dems need to be talked into letting him run.
What’s the phrase? ‘Cut off yer nose to spite yer face’
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 29, 2019 - 01:11pm PT

Then someone needs to talk Schultz into running as a Democrat.

Trump has already called him stoopid. I think it would be a hoot if he ran as a repugnicant.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 29, 2019 - 01:54pm PT
Trump is just trying to goad him into running. A Schultz/Independent campaign is probably his best shot at re-election.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 29, 2019 - 02:07pm PT
I am convinced Donald will not be running for another term as President.

If the election were held right now he would lose in a landslide to virtually any Democrat, so much under water is his polling.

And it is only going to get worse as more and more indictments, prison sentences,
and Mueller's report comes out.

Needing 67 votes in the Senate to impeach, that is not going to happen.

Trump announces sometime early next year that he will not be running, will declare victory and retire to his wonderful, opulent life.

In 2020 it is the Republicans bad fortune to defend the most seats, likely the Senate flips
as a Dem is elected President.

10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Jan 29, 2019 - 02:33pm PT

I am convinced Donald will not be running for another term as President.

If the election were held right now he would lose in a landslide to virtually any Democrat, so much under water is his polling.

And it is only going to get worse as more and more indictments, prison sentences,
and Mueller's report comes out.

Needing 67 votes in the Senate to impeach, that is not going to happen.

Trump announces sometime early next year that he will not be running, will declare victory and retire to his wonderful, opulent life.

In 2020 it is the Republicans bad fortune to defend the most seats, likely the Senate flips
as a Dem is elected President.
I've been thinking that for awhile.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 29, 2019 - 02:36pm PT
Whatever it takes, man. We can't move away from this embarrassing period in American history fast enough, as far as I'm concerned.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 29, 2019 - 02:49pm PT
All True.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 29, 2019 - 03:01pm PT
Forget flipping the senate in 2020. The cons have more seats up for election, but they are mostly in deep conservative states.

Only realistic chance is flipping Susan Collins and Cory Gardner. Dems will lose Jones seat cuz he won't be running against a child molestor this time.

That still leaves you a couple short (assuming a Dem vp).
WBraun

climber
Jan 29, 2019 - 03:41pm PT
Nothings gonna change in the district of criminals.

You fools are so brainwashed it's ridiculous ......
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 29, 2019 - 04:10pm PT
Thank You.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 30, 2019 - 09:29am PT
Why Trump's superfans dig Ocasio-Cortez
'I aspire to be the conservative AOC,' said one GOP congressman.
By BEN SCHRECKINGER 01/30/2019 05:02 AM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/30/aoc-congress-republicans-1134065

(Excerpts)

They detest what she stands for. They think her policies would destroy the country. And they wish she would just go away.

All the same, many of President Donald Trump’s most media-conscious supporters can’t help but admit it: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has got serious political game.

“I aspire to be the conservative AOC,” Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) told POLITICO. Gaetz, an outspoken 36-year-old in his second term who has achieved a measure of prominence as a highly visible Trump defender, said there’s just one problem with that aspiration: “I can’t dance for sh#t.”

"AOC has what I call 'gameness' or competitive heart — the combination of grit, determination, fighting spirit that you can't coach,” Steve Bannon, Trump’s former chief strategist, told POLITICO. “You either have it or you don't, and she has it big league."

***

The president’s most media-savvy supporters recognize Ocasio-Cortez’s approach because it is so similar to Trump’s, a comparison they often make.

“Laughing at Trump, as the libs did, sure stopped him from being POTUS,” the far-right activist Mike Cernovich tweeted in November, adding, “Laughing at AOC, as the cons are doing now, sure is hurting her.”

***


Since Ocasio-Cortez’s upset of Democratic incumbent Joe Crowley in last summer’s primary, Cernovich has regularly weighed in on her political potential, arguing that she is a left-wing Trump with a better understanding of social media and the benefit of positive coverage from mainstream outlets.

"I think her policies and everything are a disaster but I just look at her effectiveness,” Cernovich said, praising her as an exemplar of the 19th-century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche's concept of will to power. “No one's more effective than her right now."

The self-described democratic socialist has also caught the attention of "Dilbert" creator Scott Adams, a prominent pro-Trump voice on social media who began insisting in the summer of 2015 that the real estate mogul would win the presidential election, based in part on his belief that Trump had mastered the principles of hypnosis.

In November, Adams, who has studied the art of persuasion, gave Ocasio-Cortez an A+ grade on her persuasion skills in a tweet. He responded to a skeptic who argued that her appeal was limited by responding, "Same thing was said of Donald Trump in 2015."

***

Meanwhile, Ann Coulter, another early Trump believer, has become privately preoccupied with Ocasio-Cortez’s ability to command mass attention, according to a person close to the conservative commentator.

"Terrified is a good word," said the person. "She's terrified of her.” The person recounted a recent conversation with Coulter in which, "She was ranting about, ‘AOC's going to be the next president even if she's not old enough to run.’” Coulter did not respond to emails requesting comment.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a Trump ally, mustered only a backhanded compliment for the young Democratic socialist.

“Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is an energetic, enthusiastic, stunningly self-confident person who has the enthusiastic help of much of the liberal media,” he told POLITICO. “Whether uninformed moral self-righteousness and charisma can overcome stunningly false facts will be a real test of how far American education has decayed.”

(Who are we talking about, again?)


For some on the populist right, the answer to handling the media-savvy congresswoman lies in the old adage, “If you can’t beat them, join them.” For them, the congresswoman’s ability to rally the left to populist causes could be an opportunity.

***

Coulter, for her part, has taken to Twitter to appeal to the congresswoman directly.

“Ocasio-Cortez wants a 70-80% income tax on the rich. I agree! Start with the Koch Bros. — and also make it WEALTH tax,” she tweeted at the beginning of the month. Last week, Coulter followed up by tweeting a report about financier Ken Griffin making the most expensive home purchase in U.S. history, writing, “Attention Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.”
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 30, 2019 - 09:48am PT
The field just got derper with new age guru Marianne Williamson. LOL
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 30, 2019 - 01:40pm PT
Aired in 2013. The similarities are scary. And hysterical.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 30, 2019 - 02:40pm PT
^^^ Brilliant video!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 3, 2019 - 10:45am PT
Can someone give some concrete examples of AOC's demonstrated skills in leadership?

For all of the oxygen she's sucking out of the Democrat's political world these days, I can't seem to be able to think of anything that she's done in the past that exemplifies her great potential as a leader.

Being new, young, and sparkly doesn't qualify all by itself, unless you've got the chops to go along with it. With the Right being as extreme and polarizing as it has become, the solution isn't an extreme and polarizing Left.

Maybe I've missed something in her CV. Please educate me, AOC fans.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 3, 2019 - 11:03am PT
I think Mooses blood pressure would go down if he quit posting about AOC...?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 3, 2019 - 11:18am PT
Agreed Moose.....I think Apogee is a closet-Trump supporter and maybe even a bit racist...Idylwild is a safe haven for these types....
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 3, 2019 - 11:22am PT
‘Non-believer’?

Well, if that means not believing in something that I have no evidence that exists, then yeah, that’s me.

But I’ve certainly started out as a non-believer, and later converted once I was ‘educated’. Bring it!
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 3, 2019 - 11:23am PT
AOC doesn't need to win. She's already winning based on sound policy and the long term trend to progress
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 3, 2019 - 11:36am PT
Too vague for me, Flip Flop.

What are specific examples of this ‘sound policy’?

‘Long term progress’...to what?

Where has she accomplished anything like this in her political career?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 3, 2019 - 12:12pm PT
The Democrats need someone with a progressive vision, for sure. Their tendency to wallow in mediocrity, and win elections too often in spite of themselves is clearly demonstrated.

But in order to make anything actually happen, it takes a wholistic vision that is feasible to attain, and the skillset to make it happen.

So far, all I'm aware of with AOC is a few non-sequiter policy offerings that are disjointed and nowhere close to achievable, and virtually no prior political experience to implement anything.

Progressives won't like hearing this, but the attraction many on the Left have of AOC is not a lot different than the attraction many on the Right had towards Trump. They both are seen as 'outsiders', with no real political background or history to get bummed out about, they say the stuff that people want to hear (regardless of how realistic it is) and they like the idea of 'poking a thumb in the eye' of establishment politics.

Trump's d#@&%ebaggery aside, his lack of political skills have severely limited his long-lasting acheivements. The same will undoubtedly be true of AOC.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 3, 2019 - 02:19pm PT
What apogee says. She’s also easy on the eyes, unlike most other politicians, and let’s face it, that is a lot of her appeal.

Let’s see what she actually accomplishes after a few years in Congress.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Feb 3, 2019 - 02:19pm PT
“Whether uninformed moral self-righteousness and charisma can overcome stunningly false facts will be a real test of how far American education has decayed.”

Seems like the Republicans have already proven that over and over.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 3, 2019 - 03:38pm PT
Lovely young Bolshevik. A democratic centralist, her branch of the party, once dominant, will allow no deviancy.

Where did I see this? Maybe on ST? Russian joke after collapse of the Soviet Union:

"Everything our leaders told us about communism was wrong, and everything they told us about capitalism was correct."
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 3, 2019 - 04:10pm PT
I don't disagree that AOC is inexperienced. She's 29. She doesn't need to win. She can give voice to promote the most progressive populist causes without worrying about being realistic. Idealism is perfect for the Progressives. We can set our goals idealistically and still vote for the candidate most able to make progress politically.
The conservatives are bringing attention to progressive issues and candidates. Bigly. Take a look at Tulsi Gabbard and you can imagine how people achieve political experience and authority. I've heard similar dismissals of her but her resumé is getting thick. Bigly.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 3, 2019 - 04:27pm PT

Tulsi Gabbard campaign in disarray
Her campaign manager is already set to depart and the congresswoman is under fire back home in Hawaii.
By DANIEL STRAUSS and ALEX THOMPSON 01/29/2019 05:37 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/29/tulsi-gabbard-2020-election-1134055


Tulsi Gabbard’s presidential campaign hasn’t officially launched yet but it’s already melting down.

Two-and-a-half weeks after the Hawaii Democrat told CNN she had decided to run for the White House—an announcement that even her own staff didn't know was coming, after weeks of debating the timing of the rollout—the 37-year-old congresswoman has struggled to contain the chaos.

Campaign manager Rania Batrice and Gabbard’s consulting firm Revolution Messaging are set to depart after this weekend’s official kickoff in Hawaii, two sources familiar with the situation told POLITICO. Gabbard is leaning on her sister, Vrindavan, to fill the void.

Meanwhile, the congresswoman is under fire back home after picking a fight with Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), and a prominent Democratic state lawmaker is already challenging Gabbard in next year’s congressional primary. That means she faces the possibility of losing the presidential race and her House seat as well.

For years, Gabbard has been regarded as a rising star in the Democratic Party, and supporters hoped she could use a presidential bid to pressure party elites toward a non-interventionist foreign policy. But her early campaign stumbles and problems back home—where at times she’s had sky-high approval ratings—call into question whether the Hawaii lawmaker can compete on the national stage.






This ain't a great start. She's got a bit more political experience that AOC, but is it enough to compete in a national campaign? We'll see.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Feb 3, 2019 - 04:33pm PT
I dated Hispanic girls when I first moved to Cali in the 1970s.

Coming from the Stepford Wives suburbs of white-bread South Carolina, these brown women were exotic in their hubris.

I understand the infatuation.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 3, 2019 - 04:39pm PT
Ya know, Flip Flop, I could buy into what (I think) you are saying about AOC being a protagonist for progressive ideas if those ideas could be reasonably realistic and achievable.

The problem that repeats itself, though, are new & shiny politicians that speak to their extreme bases with a bunch of idealistic, unrealistic platitudes and rhetoric, then when they can't make it happen, their followers get disenchanted because they didn't get the candy coated sparkly unicorn they were promised. Those disenchanted voters stay home on election day as some kind of spite to their own Party, and the Right marches right over the top of them (and the rest of the country).

One of the marks of an experienced, capable politician is the ability to work with people you don't totally agree with (or don't agree with at all). AOC has done a remarkable job of alienating people that could very much help her accomplish her vision (whatever the hell that is).
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 3, 2019 - 04:47pm PT
Are you often guided by Politico/ Capitol News Co? Because, to me, negative reporting from them is banal and ubiquitous in this yellow journalism world.

Are you saying that Medicare for All is rhetoric or a platitude? Or the tax rate for the wealthy? Or the pentagon budget?

I can see that I've pushed your buttons as your level of dialogue has tanked and you're leaning on insults and links.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 3, 2019 - 04:57pm PT
Flip Flop, if you feel personally insulted, that is not at all my intention- I'm honestly not clear at all what it is I've posted that qualifies as a personal attack. I'm certain we have voted very similarly over the years (in General Elections, anyway)- we're in the same camp.

Medicare for all is a good idea...not AOC's, but worth exploring, for sure. Much as I'd like to see the kind of tax rates she's advocating, I don't think it's a realistic expectation, but is a common populist approach to gaining ears.

Edit:
And what is wrong with posting links to information sources that illustrate one's point? If you don't believe those kinds of sources, that's your prerogative, and you certainly don't have to read them. It's not an attack....it's just information.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 3, 2019 - 06:08pm PT
You apparently think that Universal Healthcare and responsible social policies are worth ridiculing as a candy coated unicorn. You don't insult me. You show your character
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 3, 2019 - 06:14pm PT
Go in peace, Flip Flop.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 4, 2019 - 09:07am PT
Soak the rich? Americans say go for it
Surveys are showing overwhelming support for raising taxes on top earners.
By BEN WHITE 02/04/2019 05:15 AM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/04/democrats-taxes-economy-policy-2020-1144874

The prospect of 70 percent tax rates for multimillionaires and special levies on the super-rich draw howls about creeping socialism and warnings of economic disaster in much of Washington.

But polling suggests that when it comes to soaking the rich, the American public is increasingly on board.

Surveys are showing overwhelming support for raising taxes on top earners, including a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll released Monday that found 76 percent of registered voters believe the wealthiest Americans should pay more in taxes. A recent Fox News survey showed that 70 percent of Americans favor raising taxes on those earning over $10 million — including 54 percent of Republicans.





AOC has hit a populist nerve with this one...and one that just might play a bigger role in the 2020 election. We'll see if it actually goes anywhere...I'm dubious, as the big money in this country effectively controls the country, and they & the Congress they paid for aren't going to let that kind of thing happen.

Still, this kind of rallying can have a spillover effect on getting candidates in there that support other, more do-able policies. Time will tell.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 4, 2019 - 09:21am PT
The folks who brought me up to speed on the Trumpocolypse well before it was "newsworthy" are saying that AOC may well be a Russian asset. Guess what - they say it about Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders(although to be fair they say Bernie is not likely to be knowingly going along with the plan, but being used to divert from a sustainable Democrat base.

Watch her voting records, NYers, is about all I can say.

The tactic is supposedly being used in several states. Be careful on who we vote into office - research their past! These people who are coming out of nowhere with well-funded campaigns....red flag.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 4, 2019 - 09:24am PT
Thing is, you could have told those same people who are raving about AOC's supposed Russian influence that Trump also had potentially similar influences and they would have voted for him anyway. Funny how ethics work.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 4, 2019 - 10:03am PT
I'm confused about what you wrote Apogee.... The folks who I am getting this info from were not Trump voters. Who are you referring to?

FWIW, it's come out that Russian cyber warfare has been used on Brexit, Venezuala, France and German campaigns. They don't care if they are getting a GOP as president - just that they get people in whom they can control. We had better get smart, as a voting/media digesting public, and quick.

A few days ago, a Russian news source had a story saying that the US Intelligence community was preparing for civil war and a dissolution of the US government. The source on Twitter laughed it off and wrote "Projection much?"

I'm not laughing. Our intelligence community is unlikely to be "preparing for civil war," but that does not mean that the object of the oligarths isn't civil war in this country.

Someone here in good old AZ made a comment, when I said "let's hope we don't have a second shutdown," that he felt the next step would be the declaration of a National Emergency and Marshal Law.

Now, we've all heard "Emergency" from the boy who cried wolf(DT), but I haven't heard any whispers of Marshal Law.

I'm not ready to cry the sky is falling, but with some thinking I thought "What IF DT DID declare Marshal Law? What would the reaction of the general population be?

The majority, at first would complain on the internet(that would be me included) but action beyond that not taken. However.....

I don't think it would be difficult at this point to get some groups taking actions that could/would lead this country into a civil war. I really, really, don't.

It's time to get smart folks, and stop the devisive bickering. We MUST look to our similarities instead of focusing on differences to get through this.

Unless of course, you want to see your national parks sold off as estates for wealthy mobsters and mined to smithereens for the goods that lay below the surface.

This land is your land, and my land. We must protect it. Putin and crew would be more than thrilled to see us self-righteous Americans tossed off our high horses and struggling like the average Russian has for years on end. Would love to be "drinking our milkshake," so to speak.

WBraun

climber
Feb 4, 2019 - 10:12am PT
a Russian news source

LOL

Most of those are smear campaigns against Russia by western trolls.

You should really dig deep why this smear campaign is going on by so many.

The Russian oligarchies hate Putin and the west hates Putin.

All because he's stopping their covert nefarious activities everywhere he can .....

The brainwashing of America is ongoing by their very own govt.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 4, 2019 - 10:14am PT
I misinterpreted your post, Happi...although undoubtedly there are some on the Right who would believe that AOC has Russian influence....but would have given Trump a pass regardless.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 4, 2019 - 10:19am PT
What IF DT DID declare Marshal Law?

"Martial law".... sorry... English major here.

Nobody's declaring Martial law... it's the same BS they used to write about Barry declaring martial law and ruling forever.

The only time you'd see it would be if the revolution were truly underway which is never going to happen until people are really really hungry.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 4, 2019 - 11:02am PT
Used to frequently hear about Bush declaring martial law, as well.

Both Russia and China are active in cyber-warfare.

I agree with Happi's point about Russia stirring up sh#t in all the major pots around the globe. It's about creating unrest. Chaos.

I've never thought Trump conspired with the Ruskies in '16. Still waiting for something more than circumstantial evidence. But it's pretty clear they threw their efforts behind Trump. Why? To cause discord. to divide the country. The result has probably far exceeded their expectations.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 4, 2019 - 11:26am PT
Our intelligence community is unlikely to be "preparing for civil war," but that does not mean that the object of the oligarths isn't civil war in this country.

You would be grossly mistaken. If Homeland Security is coordinating a response to civil unrest caused by solar storms causing a widespread power failure with the Pentagon and other agencies then it doesn’t take a Poirot to deduce that they are ‘gaming’ other scenarios.*

As for our oligarths wanting a civil war you need to stock up on tin foil! That would severely impact the bottom line! Keep the Ding Dongs on the shelves and the fake news rolling!


*That was widely reported about 6 -9 months ago
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 4, 2019 - 11:29am PT
Werner, I saw the link to the *Russian News source* but can't recall if it Russia Today, as I thought. So rather that write the name of a source I don't currently have time to double check, I used a generic.

Really, you believe Putin is the white hat in what's going on? Seriously?
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Feb 4, 2019 - 11:39am PT
Russian influnce no longer means socialism or communisim. It is flat out mafiaism. The power elite of Russian ready to grab cash in any possible way.

The Russian power is only interested in our cash. Disrupting politics pays them the'll do it. Don't make the mistake of thinking they give a crap one way or the other. Just like everyone, they want beach front property and a cold drink.
WBraun

climber
Feb 4, 2019 - 11:54am PT
Russia stirring up sh#t in all the major pots around the globe.

You people are sooo brainwashed, just the way they want you to be.

Americans are such st00pid brainwashed people.

No wonder you're always in a st00pid war .....

No wonder you all want to become robots ....

No wonder you all are on the verge of extinction ...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 4, 2019 - 12:17pm PT
Russian threat you say?

Yawn.

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

DMT

It's 2012 all over again.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 4, 2019 - 01:04pm PT
You have to admit that the Rooskie ‘threat’ is very good for business
if yer Northrup, Boeing, et al.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 4, 2019 - 03:57pm PT
" . . . although undoubtedly there are some on the Right who would believe that AOC has Russian influence."



I say she is a Bolshevik in spirit, but not under Russian influence. Her wing of the DP, if strong enough, might not allow diversity in the Party. Look at the power exercised by the Clinton Machine prior to the last election.


Wish Joe Biden were ten years younger.


guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Feb 4, 2019 - 05:39pm PT
Concerning Tulsi Gabbard's campaign in disarray and dah Russians you only have to go as far as the Democratic Party and its own internal felons of fake news, misinformation and outright sabotage of any candidates that threatens the status quo and the lingering influence of Queen Hillary and her fellow inmates.

Take the time and read the following: https://theintercept.com/2019/02/03/nbc-news-to-claim-russia-supports-tulsi-gabbard-relies-on-firm-just-caught-fabricating-russia-data-for-the-democratic-party/

Any candidate that says Universal Health Care is not at the very top of the list and is not 100% committed to implementing such a program, might as well step down now. Add to this the insane amount of $ spent on defense, Wall Street and corporate thievery, the Super Pac mess and gerrymandering and one can get an idea of how f*#ked up this country is right now. Christ I almost forgot our new Superior Court Justice.

AOC and her progressive concepts are not new, they have been around a long time but have mostly been buried in BS political obfuscation or given minor lip service to keep the base hopeful. Hopefully her spark will entice some of the more stagnant members to get serious or get out. Perhaps we have seen the demise of the two party system and the next Presidential election will have an Independent in the Oval Office. I guess our soon to be interim President Pelosi will have something to say about this.....
sween345

climber
back east
Feb 4, 2019 - 05:48pm PT

I had just been telling my wife that I was surprised Big Bird hadn't jumped on the bandwagon.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 4, 2019 - 05:54pm PT
Good post there guido
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Feb 5, 2019 - 07:38am PT
https://www.hipforums.com/forum/attachments/giphy-gif.205625/

I agree, good post Guido.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Feb 6, 2019 - 03:43am PT
Kids today...I'm tellinya. Nawmean?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_members_of_the_United_States_Congress



State of the Union: We're in limbo but greater than ever.

[Puppets all rise and ovate.]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 6, 2019 - 06:51pm PT
President Trump’s Home Run State of the Union Address
By JIM GERAGHTY
February 6, 2019 9:57 AM
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/president-trumps-home-run-state-of-the-union-address/

(Excerpt)

Before you scoff that the media would never cover Democratic infighting and scandals, keep in mind this is the most wonderful time of the presidential cycle for those of us on the Right, as Democratic candidates attempt to shiv each other through leaks of opposition research.




This illustrates an earlier comment: while the Left continues to slash at each other as they jockey for political position in their own Party, it only serves the interests of the Right.

The entire Democratic Party needs to use the strengths that already exist in their Party to focus a laser-beam straight sledgehammer blow to the whacknut extremes that have become the Republican Party. AOC has tremendous strengths...combine that with the political experience of Pelosi, and the resulting effect would be dynamite.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 8, 2019 - 03:24pm PT
Haha, I just came here to post it up from my own youtube channel, nice to see it's already been done.

You go, girl!!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 8, 2019 - 06:31pm PT
I appreciate the way she set that up, and played it out smoothly and illustratively. It's a pretty good primer for those who haven't connected those dots in the past.

It's worth noting that she's presenting to the House Oversight Committee, which is now pretty Democrat-heavy. There was a lot of patience on the part of the panel that was receiving her questions...they are predominantly liberals, and she's preaching to her own choir, effectively.
Aeriq

Sport climber
100-year Visitor
Feb 8, 2019 - 06:48pm PT
AOC and her progressive concepts are not new, they have been around a long time but have mostly been buried in BS political obfuscation or given minor lip service to keep the base hopeful. Hopefully her spark will entice some of the more stagnant members to get serious or get out. Perhaps we have seen the demise of the two party system and the next Presidential election will have an Independent in the Oval Office. I guess our soon to be interim President Pelosi will have something to say about this.....

This and the bad guy throw-down. I am a BIG fan.

Old conservative males are terrified of her. Not the politics, but the intelligence and delivery.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 8, 2019 - 09:50pm PT
She's earning her chops.
The courage that the bougy mainstream fear. Kick Ass!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 9, 2019 - 06:51am PT
I've read that a large amount of her campaign financing came from sources outside her district. Haven't researched that but it does beg some questions.

Not trying to rain on her parade. Just that well before the midterms there was chatter that there were candidates that may be running who are not what they seem. Keep an eye on your pols voting records and responses(no vote can be a telling sign as well).
dirtbag

climber
Feb 9, 2019 - 06:56am PT
If you are interested in seeing a new generation of politicians, hear out Buttigieg. Yes, rising to President from mayor of South Bend Indiana is the longest of long shots, but I’d love to see him at least emerge from this race getting a big seat at a big table. Smart as a whip, and thoughtful, too.

Buttigieg, who attended Harvard, studied philosophy, politics, and economics (P.P.E.) at Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship, and did a tour in Afghanistan as a naval reservist, can seem like an “old person’s idea of a young person,” as Michael Kinsley once said of Al Gore. Certainly, against the image of the millennial left, and of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Buttigieg appears to be a more prosaic political character—he has a habit of giving answers in numbered sequence, and he uses phrases like “pathway to peace.” But, in his own understated way, he is suggesting a sharp break with the past. If you thought in terms of the effects of public policy on millennials, he said, you began to see generational imbalances everywhere. The victims of school shootings suffered because of the gun liberties given to older Americans. Cutting taxes for the richest Americans meant that young people, inevitably, would have to pay the bill. Climate policy, he said, was the deepest example of the imbalance, but the Iraq War was perhaps the most tangible. “There’s this romantic idea that’s built up around war,” he said. “But the pragmatic view is there are tons of people of my generation who have lost their lives, lost their marriages, or lost their health as a consequence of being sent to wars which could have been avoided.” Then he quoted, happily, from “Lawrence of Arabia”: “The virtues of war are the virtues of young men—courage and hope for the future. The vices of peace are the vices of old men—mistrust and caution.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-political-scene/pete-buttigiegs-quiet-rebellion
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 9, 2019 - 07:06am PT
It is damn easy to speculate about donors. Or ,you could look it up. https://www.opensecrets.org/races/contributors?cycle=2018&id=NY14&spec=N
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 9, 2019 - 07:41am PT
Columbia University $10,833
Selendy & Gay $9,000
Justice Democrats $7,706
Apple Inc $6,578
City University of New York $6,275
Segal Ventures $5,900
University of California $5,603
Skadden, Arps et al $5,579
Communications Workers of America $5,537
Service Employees International Union $5,510
Antidote Films $5,400
Hart Group $5,400
Homebrew $5,400
Quinn, Emanuel et al $5,200
City of New York, NY $5,156
American Federation of Teachers $5,077
United Auto Workers $5,027
Moveon.org $5,004
American Postal Workers Union $5,000
Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union $5,000
National Assn of Realtors $5,000
National Education Assn $5,000
Operating Engineers Union $5,000
Progressive Action PAC
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Feb 9, 2019 - 08:17am PT
it's such a joy to see the conservatives get their panties in a bunch because of her.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 9, 2019 - 08:59am PT
The National Education Association must be a cover for shady antipasti groups.

Oh and there are few things more Socialist that the University of California. We need to rethink all this public education. I mean, UC California, California State University and the California Junior Colleges are teaching a lot of antipesto ideology. "World's Largest University Systems" just call it Deep State.

Deep. State.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 9, 2019 - 09:56am PT
Sad. Really. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/ocasio-cortez-financial-rumors-792454/?fbclid=IwAR1auxxKtSR84N3twA0jCgRryjDPiQ57dRD58zmsPc8bRhN7hpqHPVx4R3w


Seeing how your credit score may now implicate you as being bad ,makes me wonder about bankruptcies.
sempervirens

climber
Feb 9, 2019 - 09:57am PT
Good post Wilbeer. Information vs. speculation... not that we should necessarily give credence to anything on the internet, but it Open Secrets.org appears to me to be more credible than facebook, tv news, or mere speculation.

I clicked on a couple of AOC's donors and it certainly raises some suspicion. Most of the donors do seem to be consistent with her stated views -e.g. unions, universities.

It's also weird how much attention foxx news & conservatives give to AOC. I think the cons. are adept at baiting the libs and getting libs to defend dumb comments. The more outrageous (however it might be defined) the claim a lib like AOC makes, the more cons. move to the right. The bastards who market this sh#t to us are pros; they know what they're doing. (opinions, yes, but do they make any sense?)
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 9, 2019 - 10:06am PT
Btw,Homebrew is a successful software,I wonder where they are from?

Said a longtime home brewer.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Feb 9, 2019 - 10:46am PT
oh crap, now Elizabeth Warren is running for the Dem nomination....

really bad judgment, has a DNA test to prove she is 1/2000000000 American Indian

then stupidly announces it, and even says she is American Indian on bar registration

she is as lilly ass white as you can get

and going to get mocked and hammered over this for years

please go away and stop embarrassing your hand wringing, Kumbaya self
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Feb 9, 2019 - 05:07pm PT
Mocking and hammering really worked on Trump, didn't it?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 9, 2019 - 05:27pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Definitely making them squirm.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Feb 9, 2019 - 06:07pm PT
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 9, 2019 - 06:08pm PT
DT made a tweet about seeing "Pocahontas" on the TRAIL(all caps).

What a jerk. No doubt he will deny he meant it as a reference to the Trail of Tears, and frankly, I seriously doubt he even knows what that is. So....who writes DT's media attention-demanding Tweets?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 9, 2019 - 06:10pm PT
That's a facetious, rhetorical question, right?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 06:56am PT
No, it's serious. Either he plays dumb(really, I cannot imagine how the Trail of Tears lodged in his brain well enough that he could pull it out as a caustic, bigoted remark that is actually sophisticated in a sick way), or some team is tweeting by proxy, and they are well aware. Of that's the case, @really should be shuttered by twitter, as it is a troll account.

Kind of sad, to think the *leader* of this country has a troll account.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 08:33am PT
There can be no doubt that those tweets are always coming from Trump himself. He was a twitter addict before he came into office, and that hasn't changed a bit.

Twitter is a narcissist's dream tool...you have 'followers' who receive every flippin' useless thought that comes across your mind. There's not a chance he'd ever delegate that to anyone else.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 10, 2019 - 08:40am PT
Trolling his haters. It's what he does.

Very unpresidential, yet very effective.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 08:59am PT
He trolls his supporters, as well. Of course, they'd (his base) believe anything he said regardless of which orifice he spews it from.

Dems aren't the only ones who find his twitter-diction habit unpresidential...there are large numbers of Republican voters who feel the same way.
John M

climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 09:13am PT
I can fully understand why a person would grow up with a story about having native american ancestry and believe it. Its even still possible that its true because DNA tests don't always show your precise history. A person doesn't always inherit every marker for all of their ancestors. Look it up. Read up on DNA ancestry tests.

Of course, I do understand the uphill road that she has. American's aren't very educated and getting people to understand the complexities of DNA results is likely not going to happen.

Good luck America. You are going to need it.

Edit: VVVVV didn't realize Elizabeth Warren was 69. Yep.. thats a problem. Though I know some powerful 70 year olds.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 09:35am PT
Regardless of the truth that exists in Warren's genealogic history, pushing it forward (and then defending it) is poor political judgement. I have great respect for Warren's principles and accomplishments as a Consumer advocate, but her ability to play national politics (like the kind that is needed to run for the WH) are lacking.

This is the kind of political strategic blunder that any candidate could make, young or old. Hopefully AOC is paying close attention.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Feb 10, 2019 - 09:49am PT
Yup, Warren's very bad judgment ends her Presidential dreams

and now Amy in trouble, her staff says she treats them poorly

Give me a clean moderate white male and I will give you the Presidency

Biden/Harris 2020

spectreman

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 10:59am PT
The very best weapon DT and the Repugs have for 2020 is progressives like AOC. She's crazy as a loon and will only lead to more support for our dear president.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 10, 2019 - 12:06pm PT
I must say, I really like this young woman. Yes, a few of the ideas she proposes seem outlandish. However, having met in the 1980s a number of young climbers in England who were pooling their government checks, being on the dole, and spending their time on the rock when it was dry enough, I can understand a certain level of support for the government (taxpayers) giving money to those who prefer not to work.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 12:19pm PT
"...a certain level of support for the government (taxpayers) giving money to those who prefer not to work."


Are you being serious, jogill?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Feb 10, 2019 - 12:22pm PT
So much love for the parasites living at the top...

...you hear over and over again, "Nobody ought to get something for nothing." I've got to agree. You've got to work to eat.

I look at a factory. I see that everybody associated with that factory puts something in and they take something out. The workers put in their sweat and their skill, and they take out wages. The salesmen put in their skill and ability, and they take out commissions. The managers and foremen and people in the offices put in theirs, and take out salaries. But there's one group of people who take out more than they put in, and that more is called profit. I can't think of any other way to define it. That's a bunch of people who are getting something they didn't work for, and it's a whole lot. If we're really concerned about people getting just what they earn, if we're really concerned about people not getting something that they didn't put in time and sweat for, let's start with the major offenders, and get rid of them. Then we'll gradually work our way down to the petty chiselers. It just makes sense."
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Feb 10, 2019 - 01:05pm PT
Can someone please post a link to where AOC said people who do not want to work should be given a government check anyway, I can't find it by google?
---------------


I have just a bit of a problem with outright hostility towards those who get the most "profits" from a business, along with the supposed contention that they do not "work" for it.

Yes, i feel strong outrage at the family owners of say WalMart who are worth many billions yet many of their employees have to get by with food stamps and other taxpayer paid government benefits.

Does Paris Hilton "deserve" billions in profits because she happens to be a descendent
of the founder of Hilton Hotels? Not in my book, "estate" taxes need to be examined

I have started five companies since the age of 22, been self employed all my life.
I absolutely "deserve" any and all profits that accrue after I have paid my employees wages, social security and medicare. And so does Jeff Bezos for starting Amazon, but here is the difference - many small business owners, like me, believe in their employees participating in the profitability of the company by paying them well. It is the large corporations who do not have this sense of equitable justice that give capitalism a bad name. They proudly claim they pay "competitively" to attract talent and they are answerable only to the shareholders who demand maximum profit and as little employee payroll expense as possible.

There are some countries that have laws in place to be more "fair" and limit executive pay in relation to workers pay, and those countries are blasted by the political right in America as "socialist" and ridiculed for not being as purely capitalist as we in the USA are.
i-b-goB

Social climber
Nutty
Feb 10, 2019 - 01:10pm PT
Everyone on the dole, that'll work! -NOT!
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 10, 2019 - 02:23pm PT
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5729033-Green-New-Deal-FINAL.html


It's implied in the last paragraph: providing economic security to all. In videos I have heard her say Yes, even for those who choose not to work.

I think the plans have been updated to eliminate the dole.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 02:50pm PT
"In videos I have heard her say Yes, even for those who choose not to work."

I would very much like to see such videos, or direct quotes of AOC stating that she believes that those who choose not to work should receive government/taxpayer support.

I gave that document a quick scan, and didn't see any such kind of statement. If you know of an amended document, please pass it along.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 10, 2019 - 02:55pm PT
Like that would happen.

Edit;I find it incredible that we don’t have to lie about Trump or,insert Republican here,whatsoever. But ,you old timers ,HAVE to lie about just about anyone that has good ideas that go against this stain of an administration.

Farm bankruptcies higher than during the last recession,profits at a 15 year low,bailouts on their way.


Rail on some Socialism for me ,will you.
spectreman

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:06pm PT
From NPR's website. The document expressly says "economic security for all who are unable or UNWILLING to work"

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5729035-Green-New-Deal-FAQ
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:19pm PT
I was not aware of that....it's hard to imagine how AOC and other advocates are truly advocating that this 'New Green Deal' should 'provide economic security for those who are unwilling to work.'

If they mean exactly what that says, that's an absolute deal breaker for me...and significantly deteriorates any level of support I could have for those who would support such a 'Deal'.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:33pm PT
If they are serious about the green deal, they should focus solely on energy sustainability. That in itself is a monumental task, and cluttering it with anything else would certainly doom it.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:39pm PT
Inclusion of that kind of proposal just hands the detractors a major sound bite that they can replay over and over and over that will nuke the entire initiative. That document might as well say 'the US will become a Socialist country'.

There will never be vast public support in this country for the idea of 'providing economic support for those who are unwilling to work.' Talk about shooting ones-self in the foot...
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:42pm PT
"But ,you old timers ,HAVE to lie about just about anyone that has good ideas that go against this stain of an administration."




High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:46pm PT
Stormi's birthday...
https://www.accessonline.com/articles/kylie-jenner-travis-scott-celebrate-daughter-stormis-first-birthday-with-extravagant-stormiworld-bash

Out of whack, imo.

...

There needs to be a wealth tax and a progressive income tax that exponentially reflects the sky high numbers we see.

There also needs to be a guaranteed basic income, even if for starters it's only $500/month.

The country would be the better for it. But good luck convincing the billionaires, the uneducated, and the lower and lower middle classes who constantly vote against their own interests that this is the way to go.

The "useless class" is coming. (Harari). I agree.


...

There will never be vast public support in this country for the idea of 'providing economic support for those who are unwilling to work.' Talk about shooting ones-self in the foot...


Maybe this is because Democrats can't get their act together and don't know how to formulate and frame their own narrative. Instead they leave it to the Republicans and Fox to do it. It seems to me they'll never get around to realizing that they're being played and that they need to unify around their own narrative in their own terms.

"Providing" income for those unwilling to work" - case in point.

Suckers. From every direction. But what can you do?
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:47pm PT
Talk about shooting ones-self in the foot...

yes, stupid

exactly as Elizabeth Warren exhibited with her insistence on proving her native American background -
think about it, even if the test results would have shown her to be one tenth NA that would still be laughable and mockable, really I am astounded at her bad judgment

Ok so now Amy Klobuchar says she is "tough" on her staff hoping that will dig her out of her own staff criticizing her for demeaning them

please, give us a no baggage white male Democrat nominee and he will have the White House

Biden/Harris 2020
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:56pm PT
HFCS: "There also needs to be a guaranteed basic income, even if for starters it's only $500 [per] month."


So, you support dole for those unwilling to work?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 03:57pm PT
Somebody needs to let Warren know her goose is cooked. Every day she's in the running is an embarrassment. I'm just glad I don't have to watch it.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:00pm PT
I have never heard her say that period. It may be included in the text. Never saw her say that.

Are you concluding on a typo?

Wtf.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:04pm PT
wilbeer, read that NPR document link above. It's on the first page of the 'New Green Deal'...that's the doc that AOC is the primary protagonist of.


Norton, funny you should draw the parallel with Warren. I thought something very similar.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:05pm PT
I read it show me the video
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:06pm PT
Elizabeth Warren is the Republican Party's absolute delight to run against.

She is the ultimate caricature of the whiny, kumbaya, hand wringing, female, first term liberal from hell

stupid too, please just go away

Biden/Harris

edit:
yes please I want to see the video too

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:27pm PT
Another way to put it: Without fail, the Dems succumb to the Republican and Fox talking points. It's like... every time.

For the last two months, Where were the calls from the Democrats: Trump promised the Mexicans would pay for it. If he wants his wall, Trump needs to talk to the Mexicans. (Repeat: 1000 times)

Instead, what did we get? Both sides, R and D alike, talking up and responding to... R talking points.

Unlike R, the D do not formulate their own narrative, they do not frame their own narrative in their own terms and using language that optimizes it... and they don't know how to stick to their narrative without veering off of it... and over to the R talking points and R language.

If it weren't so tragic, it would be laughable.

...

Democrats. Formulate your narrative, or set of narratives. Optimize it. Frame its ideas in words and phrases that optimize their play their resonance in the human mind. Last but not least, stick to it. Stick to it, no matter what. Stick to it, no matter what. Stick to it, no matter what. Don't fall into the trap (like an ant into an antlion trap) of using the R narrative and its terms. Easy to say, hard to do.

How soon will I read on this thread a Democrat... or how soon will I hear from a Democrat on tv... expressing zerself (lol!) in R terms using R framing and R narrative? Probably less then 5 minutes.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:29pm PT
Why is a video the proof-positive?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:47pm PT
A little more digging brings more info...

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/429282-ocasio-cortez-camp-clarifies-green-new-deal-details-after-faq-sparks-backlash

Apparently, there are several FAQ sheets out there...some that were not in final stage, and even some doctored versions.


Some of the docs had references to 'providing economic support to those unwilling to work' and something about bovine flatulence. Not kidding.

Not surprising that opposing groups would try to sabotage something like this, but also not surprising that draft documents weren't controlled very well.



wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:49pm PT
Why is the text proof positive?

Your moderate up there brought it up.


wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:51pm PT
Not surprising,wow.

But , I saw a video where she said that.


BS.

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Feb 10, 2019 - 04:55pm PT
Multiple print versions are confusing, a video of AOC clearly advocating government money for people who are able to but are unwilling work, would put an end to speculation

Personally, I just do not believe she personally believes in enabling complete slackers

and if it clearly comes out that she does, she is as dumb as Warren
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 05:17pm PT
Even though I'm not a strong AOC fan, I sincerely doubt she would advocate anything like 'economic security for those who are unwilling to work'. If anyone has evidence beyond this GND document debacle, please post up.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 10, 2019 - 05:24pm PT
I would not doubt that text was hacked.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 05:58pm PT
Welfare fraud is actually not very prevalent. I find it really disturbing that there is such outrage at the idea that a single mother, or father although admit it-when you think "welfare fraud," you aren't imagining a male, doing something to increase the amount received(I mean, I guess that's what people assume is happening), but when we find out about politicians stealing hundred of thousand dollars in some illegal scheme...not so much outcry there.

I mean really. Where is the outrage at these political fraudsters?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 10, 2019 - 06:27pm PT
The last few pages are an excellent demonstration of the dysfunction of "The Left". You guys have become so comfortable with identity politics and an intolerant mindset (demonizing anyone who doesn't cotton to your way of thinking), that you're turning on each other.

It could be the lynchpin to Trump winning reelection.
spectreman

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 07:35pm PT
She wrote it in her GND, it's on the NPR website. NPR is not some whacko conservative news outlet. I'm really sorry to break the news. A video of AOC actually saying it isn't needed. She did say it, in writing.
spectreman

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 07:40pm PT
And where is the party of science with this whole GND? Some lunatic, AOC, saying we're going to be carbon zero in 10 years?? Are you kidding me? What energy sources will be used? Oh, not nuclear energy, that's going away too.
But what to do about the cows, oh my. And retro-fit every building in the entire country to meet some Green standard, and build trains so no one ever has to fly around in an airplane again.
Good lord, it's like an SNL skit. Trump's going to laugh his way back into the WH if this drivel from the left continues.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Feb 10, 2019 - 07:54pm PT
Set high goals and see what how close your team came come to achieving them.

Sail across the Atlantic. Yes - you might discover new worlds. No - you'll fall off the edge and be eaten by dragons.

Send humans to the Moon. Yes - and we will discover worlds beyond our own. No - you'll burn up and fry from radiation.

Stand at the bottom of a mountain and say I can climb that - Yes - you FA El Cap. No - yer gonna die.

AOC for all of her hubris and naivete at least is trying to move us forward in our discourse. What are you couch warriors doing?
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Feb 10, 2019 - 08:08pm PT
AOC for all of her hubris and naivete at least is trying to move us forward in our discourse. What are you couch warriors doing?

Jim Clipper

climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 08:10pm PT
AOC seems to be aware of the importance of image, and the power of the bully pulpit. I'd like to see her populism go up against the Congressional old guard. Still, I don't think anything more than usual would get done.

Elizabeth Warren? All Trump has to do is say "Pocahontas",and he wins the debates and a second term.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Feb 10, 2019 - 08:21pm PT
I am really struggling trying to understand how the generation that marched against unneeded wars, demanded environmental protection, decried the rise of multinational Corporations, fought and died for equality and social justice- to name but a paltry few of the "social" ideals of the 1960s and 70s. - how that same generation of people 50 years later can justify deriding a person for being the same impassioned, hopeful, naive, but no less dedicated youth that we were.

The bumper stickers are true - Old People DO suck. Thanks god we aren't in charge anymore - time for the next wave of evolution like it or not.

You can now go back to fondling your IRA and mis-remembering who you once were.
ExfifteenExfifteen

climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 08:23pm PT
Welfare fraud is actually not very prevalent. I find it really disturbing that there is such outrage at the idea that a single mother, or father although admit it-when you think "welfare fraud," you aren't imagining a male, doing something to increase the amount received(I mean, I guess that's what people assume is happening),

Yup, makes complete sense. Great wordsmithing...
dirtbag

climber
Feb 10, 2019 - 08:44pm PT
The burning question is: were the satanists at this year’s Grammies?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2019 - 11:01pm PT
"Set high goals and see what how close your team came come to achieving them."

If AOC's intent of floating the GND is based upon this concept, then I'm in her camp. In fact, I think she's intelligent enough to know that the goals that are presented in the GND are idealistically unachievable (certainly in the timeframes stated). But if it's enough of a straw man policy proposal to influence the establishment thinking of the Left, then it has value. Because without such challenges, the establishment politics just wallow in mediocrity, which isn't good for anyone.

And Edward...the same phenomenon...precisely the same phenomenon...is occurring within the GOP as this very moment.
spectreman

Trad climber
Feb 11, 2019 - 07:20am PT
Setting a high goal with the experience, know how, and work ethic to pull it off is one thing. Setting delusional goals with no chance of success is entirely another.
We need discourse and discussion, but this GND will only shut doors because it is so naive and, frankly, stupid.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 11, 2019 - 07:48am PT
What is stupid is not addressing any of those ideas,like what is going on now.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Feb 11, 2019 - 07:51am PT
Norton, read Norman Thomas. Small business will benefit from socialism. (Actual socialism, not the BS variety claimed by USSR, China, Venezuela, etc.)
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Feb 11, 2019 - 08:07am PT
I am really struggling trying to understand how the generation that marched against unneeded wars, demanded environmental protection, decried the rise of multinational Corporations, fought and died for equality and social justice- to name but a paltry few of the "social" ideals of the 1960s and 70s. - how that same generation of people 50 years later can justify deriding a person for being the same impassioned, hopeful, naive, but no less dedicated youth that we were.

I am of that generation, and still march against unneeded wars, demand environmental protections, and favor equality for everyone.
However, I agree that some baby boomers caved in so that they would fit in to a "normal" society. some say this began after the war in 'Nam was over, because there was nothing left to protest.

The bumper stickers are true - Old People DO suck.

not all
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 11, 2019 - 08:20am PT
Gary, what kind of socialism does France have? It is definitely not kind to small business.
When you can’t lay someone off unless you declare bankruptcy you’re caught between a
rock and a unmoveable socialist.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 11, 2019 - 08:38am PT
Read.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-adviser-admits-he-falsely-claimed-green-new-deal-didnt-promise-security-for-those-unwilling-to-work

Turns out it was hacked and she NEVER said it.

Carry on w/bs.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 11, 2019 - 09:08am PT
spectreman

Trad climber
Feb 11, 2019 - 10:16am PT
From Wilbeer

The article in your link says that the GND did, in fact, say it would cover people unwilling to work. I'm not sure what you ( or I ) am missing here.

From your link:
A top adviser to New York Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has admitted that an official "Green New Deal" document posted by Ocasio-Cortez's office contained a guarantee of economic security even for those "unwilling to work" -- but not before he went viral in progressive circles for claiming the exact opposite, repeatedly, in an interview with Fox News' "Tucker Carlson Tonight."
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 11, 2019 - 10:39am PT
Watch the video.

The Cornell professor said it was not from us,repeatedly.

The Fox News commentary spins that.

Am I watching and reading that wrong?

Truth is ,it(the statement of unwillingness to work) ,was never part of the original I read on AOC’s website.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 11, 2019 - 10:46am PT
It sounds to me(granted I just scanned the linked article) that the "unwilling" to work was likely a typo that maybe was supposed to be "unable," and it wasn't caught before being sent out to at least some sources.


While embarrassing and unfortunate - I would have to ask - what does the ACTUAL DOCUMENT THAT WAS PRESENTED IN CONGRESS say?

Because otherwise this is just more socmed manipulation. Come frigging on, people. Get a brain already. The delight in Brave New World-esque banter is making me ill, and damaging our society, country, and world. It will NOT end well for us if we don't stop participating in it.





EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 11, 2019 - 11:00am PT
Here's the document sent to NPR

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=5729035-Green-New-Deal-FAQ

Halfway down page one:

Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work.

What I don't understand is why Wilbeer et al are trying so hard to refute this. AOC says exceptionally stupid crap on a regular basis.
MarkWestman

Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
Feb 11, 2019 - 11:20am PT
The way I read it, the Fox News article is not an exoneration of the GND authors, in fact it confirms the accusation.

Unfortunately, the end result here is that instead of the GND proposal spurring a much needed discussion of ideas and policy for the future, we are instead debating whether anyone who entertains any version of the ideas being floated in the GND wants to “get rid of airplanes and pay people not to work”.

As someone pointed out above, Democrats are already- once again- losing their voice and getting baited into letting talk radio hyperbole drive the discussion.


the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 11, 2019 - 11:37am PT
The right must love AOC. They love having someone somewhat far left so they can be chicken littles running around warning about socialism. Meanwhile big business and the 0.01% are getting huge tax cuts, while many lower/middle income people's taxes go up or they get a small cut. She's so radical, wanting to help address the massive and accelerating extreme income inequality of the last 25 years, where more and more wealth and income is highly concentrated in very few hands. She's so unfair!
Degaine

climber
Feb 11, 2019 - 11:37am PT
reilly wrote:
Gary, what kind of socialism does France have? It is definitely not kind to small business.
When you can’t lay someone off unless you declare bankruptcy you’re caught between a
rock and a unmoveable socialist.


When it comes to France, you haven't the faintest clue of what you are talking about.

All systems have their strengths and drawbacks. The issue in France is not one of entrepreneurship, nor is it difficulty in hiring/firing people. For small businesses, the difficulty is most often one of finding capital to fund the critical growth phase of a startup, especially one involved in product development or manufacturing. Compared to the US, the banks are risk averse and there is much less venture capital available.

However, in France, if you do have to close your business, or you get fired, or you decide to quit your job, or you decide to quite you job to start a new business, you won't go bankrupt trying to cover medical costs if you ever get in an accident. On the equivalent climbing forums in France you never see any threads asking to help fund this or that person's medical care.

France's medical system is far superior to the US at half the cost per capita and it covers everyone.

Of course, in France, Walter White's story never would have seen the light of day.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
Feb 11, 2019 - 11:39am PT
Here is the resolution:

https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/hres109/BILLS-116hres109ih.pdf

It took about three seconds to find and is easily read in less than five minutes. But why not have a 24 hour news cycle on what's in it??
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 11, 2019 - 11:55am PT
Economic security for all who are unable or unwilling to work.

EdwardT nails it. Apparently y’all only read fake news and missed that Finland’s experiment
with a guaranteed income didn’t result in a statistically significant number of losers going out
and getting a job. The Finnish gubmint is ‘re-examining’ the program.

Degaine, our very own hand-wringing libtard loving National Public Radio did a lengthy program
on entrepreneurship in France. This was a few years ago but I doubt it has changed much.
It took a minimum of 6 months to get through all the bureaucracy. That’s why 400,000
young French had moved to Britain by then because it took 2-3 DAYS to do so in Britain.
And The Economist, which is far more liberal than you probably think, regularly excoriates
most EU countries for being unfriendly to small business. I’m afraid The Economist has more
credibility than you. Sorry. I imagine there are quite a few small business people amongst
les gilets jaunes.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 11, 2019 - 11:58am PT
I am really struggling trying to understand how the generation that marched against unneeded wars, demanded environmental protection, decried the rise of multinational Corporations, fought and died for equality and social justice- to name but a paltry few of the "social" ideals of the 1960s and 70s. - how that same generation of people 50 years later can justify deriding a person for being the same impassioned, hopeful, naive, but no less dedicated youth that we were.

Ricky, it has to do with the political dynamic that has evolved. It used to be that the nominee of both parties gravitated toward the middle during the election, but Trump broke the mold by espousing extreme positions----and winning.

The far left has advocated for a long time extreme positions----by which I mean positions not generally supported by the majority of voters----and saying "forget the people in the center". This is Trump's exact strategy, and it won, and he maintains his base. And the far left says "we told you so".

The problem is, that many (most) Americans don't want to live in a country controlled by either extreme. But the Far Left doesn't believe that. They believe "They'll love us when we win", mistaking lobbyists with voters.
Degaine

climber
Feb 11, 2019 - 12:14pm PT
@Reilly

Given you don't know who I am or anything about me, I completely understand why you give more credence to the Economist than to my anonymous post on the Internet.

However, that 6-month stat is just completely and utterly false. It's possible to create a business in France in as little as 7 days.

But you clearly have an axe to grind when it comes to France, so no worries.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 11, 2019 - 12:22pm PT
Well, do disabuse me of the notion that I should believe NPR and The Economist more than you.
I actually like France, if you must know. Planning a trip to Bretagne et Normandie to see where
La Femme lived as a child.

And I think we both know comparing France’s healthcare system to the US is not fair. Perhaps you don’t know where you stand within Europe. A large study recently published in The Lancet showed France is worse than Romania in deaths caused by antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Bien sûr, you are better than Portugal, Greece, or Italy but I wouldn’t be proud of that! France’s rate is 5x worse than Holland, Norway, and Estonia! Even Britain is better!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 11, 2019 - 01:41pm PT
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Democrats took a 1st step to fix the massive, foundational issue of voting reform & money in politics.

#HR1 For the People Act by @RepSarbanes was cosponsored by 227 members&passed the House.


Now it’s at the Senate. GOP is calling getting money out of politics a “power grab.”

Oops
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 11, 2019 - 03:39pm PT
Ok ,that is funny Sketch.


Beto will have a rally at the same time as Trump tonight in El Paso ,a half a mile away.

Check your sizes ,again.
10b4me

Social climber
Lida Junction
Feb 11, 2019 - 06:22pm PT
off topic, but why did trump agree to meet Kim in Vietnam? Doesn't he know it's a socialist country? btw, is trump staying at the Hanoi Hilton? Crosses fingers
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Feb 11, 2019 - 08:50pm PT
Gary, what kind of socialism does France have? It is definitely not kind to small business.
When you can’t lay someone off unless you declare bankruptcy you’re caught between a
rock and a unmoveable socialist.

Socialism at its basic is workers control of their work.
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