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wayne1
Mountain climber
united states
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 20, 2018 - 11:41pm PT
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I want a chainsaw sharpener, And i have personaly use oregon 512 and it,s quite good but now i am facing some problems in its working, so suggest some good options so that i can buy .
Thanks!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Dec 21, 2018 - 12:15am PT
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If nothing else is available, here is the old standby:
A needle file and some meditative raga music to flow the work along.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Dec 21, 2018 - 12:44am PT
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While I would hesitate to call myself an expert, I ran Husqvarna 2100s with a 33” bar for over a decade of coastal high lead logging in wood up to 6’ plus in diameter and can say without hesitation it takes a lot of practice to learn how to file a chain and keep a saw sharp.
Not sure how much experience you have or what kind of a sharpener you’re thinking of but, the simplest set up would include;
A round file appropriate to the chain size.
An angle guide for the file.
A flat file for taking the raker’s down as required.
The hard part is bracing the saw in the field to allow even filing on both right and left sides.
If you don’t already have this figured out, find a pro to show you how.
For the best sharpening, use a spare bar or the one off your saw and secure it in a vice.
Now you can easily stabilize the chain in the bar and be best set up for even file strokes from right and left.
I count my file strokes for even teeth and compensate for the weaker left side filling by adding two extra strokes on that side.
If you don’t keep your teeth even the saw won’t cut straight and will bind in bigger wood.
Keep the raker’s high for harder wood and down more for softer wood.
Be careful not to take your rakers too low or your saw will be prone to kickbacks and difficult to bore with if you’re “beavertailing” straight in with the tip.
Depending on where you live, I recommend finding a professional faller or arborist to help you find the right tools and begin the long journey of developing this difficult skill.
Hope this wandering response helps!
PB
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 21, 2018 - 02:57am PT
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^^^^^
+1 for Chief’s advice...
A Sharpenin’ Time
Down and on your knees
in the deep sawdust
On the tailgate of a pick-up
n’er mind the rust
you’ll be a hand sharpening
yah Tahoe or bust
Throw out the ol’ electric
on this you must trust
So practice makes purr-fect
and don’t ferget to cuss
-the old sawbuck
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Dec 21, 2018 - 04:02am PT
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Chiefs advise is solid. I've never ben able to figure why the left side is harder to file than the right but it is. I like to two extra strokes on that side.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Dec 21, 2018 - 04:10am PT
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Norm, are you right handed? I am a lefty and I find the right side harder.
As posted above, files are great when used regularly (each refueling or more often depending upon the density of the wood). Once you master the technique (angle and stroke count) you can ditch the guide. I sometimes can keep the chain sharp its entire life with a file. Using a flat file to do away with burs also helps.
There are times when a file won't do the job.
If you hit a piece of metal long embedded in the tree such as an nail, piece of fencing, old eye bolt or whatever and impossible to see or if you still use a bow saw it is inevitable that it will hit the dirt at some point. A bench sharpener pays for itself in less than 15 trips to the saw shop and simple to use.
I replaced 40-50 yr old chain sharpener with an Oregon 410-120 Saw Chain Grinder I bought from Amazon last year for $165. I doubt it will last as long as the old one, but neither will I.
You can invest a lot less and get a decent sharpener from Harbor Freight for $29.99, my buddy has one, it does the job. His is very similar to the one listed below, but came from Harbor Freight 10 years ago.
https://www.harborfreight.com/electric-chain-saw-sharpener-61613.html
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Dec 21, 2018 - 05:35am PT
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If you follow Chief's advice the saw will grab the wood, do all the work and spew out nice chips and ribbons of wood, not saw dust.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Dec 21, 2018 - 06:36am PT
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I've used all of the inexpensive guide tools designed to supposedly make it easier. Chief is correct though, and I always end up ditching the guides and go completely by hand because its faster. I think its more rewarding anyway as you maintain the craft of sharpening that way.
I bring down rakers everytime I file and yes the one side is harder than the other. One little tool handy for when you are out in the woods is a small little vise sold at saw shops, where you quickly hammer it into a stump if you have on handy, and then it holds your bar for you pretty well.
The key is to KEEP your chain not only sharp but even and your raker height in proper shape. Once you let it get way out of whack you have a hard time correcting it.
Arne
edit-I gotta say if I had to mount my chain into one of those machines everytime my chain needs attention I'd never get my work done.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 21, 2018 - 06:55am PT
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A decent chain isn’t that expensive compared to the time and tools to sharpen, especially if there’s a pile of work to do, not much time to do it and you just realized the chain is dull. I consider them a consumable. They tend to stretch, too. A new chain is so much safer and more efficient. Best case I’d make a pile of dull ones and outsource, otherwise they end up in metal recycling.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Dec 21, 2018 - 08:15am PT
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tobia has got it
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Dec 21, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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I ran saws for about 10 years fighting fires and then 3 years doing tree work during law school. I got to where I could sharpen free hand but it took a lot of practice on government owned chains! Using a raker gauge is a good idea even if you otherwise don't use any sort of guide. Dunno about an electric shop sharpener, I assume they work well.
Treating chains as disposable is probably ok for some weekend type stuff but isn't economical for someone making a living with a saw, or really feasible for someone who works in the woods far from their rig. Plus there is the zen aspect of using the saw correctly and providing for its proper care and feeding.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Dec 21, 2018 - 09:05am PT
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I recently heard the comment that if you work a lot with wood you better learn how to sharpen. Dull tools mean more effort. I learned sharpening on kitchen knives. It does require practice. There is a feel and even a sound when the angles and amount of force are just right. I'm still learning the chain saw. Knives, wood chisels, and planer blades I have wired. I still need to learn saw blades and drill bits. Flat straight edges are not difficult, the curved ones are the pain. Real flat stones are essential. Angle jigs are very helpful until you get the feel just right.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Dec 21, 2018 - 09:26am PT
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Drill bits are easy. Grind the end forget about the flutes. If the flutes need resharpening it's way more cost effective to buy a new bit.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Dec 21, 2018 - 09:46am PT
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Ditto the Chief's advice.
I ran a saw on a thinning contract for a summer. We sharpened by hand and every other week had our saws professionally serviced.
You might take your saw in for service and ask the person you pay to sharpen it for advice on how to do it by hand yourself. Seeing it done correctly makes a huge difference and it would be worth paying for. I watched a guy who did it for a living and it made a huge difference.
RIP Gene Harris of Gene's Saw Service in White Sulphur Springs Montana who passed away this last June. Great guy. Made my saw sing.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Dec 21, 2018 - 10:34am PT
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Chief's advice is sound.
I've spent thousands of hours cutting with large chainsaws and always sharpened the chain with a simple round file held in the basic holder with a wooden handle. You MUST use a sharp file to save time. It generally only took a few minutes to sharpen up the teeth. All the OAK beams shown were made with a chainsaw, using NO guide, but simply following a snapped chalk line. Most of the beams in the photo were 10" square, up to 40 feet long. A few were 14" square, weighing in at over 2400 pounds. Making a beam that large, from the round log, is the equivalent of cutting many cords of wood. You don't need an electric chain sharpener.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Dec 21, 2018 - 10:35am PT
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Dec 21, 2018 - 10:36am PT
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Dec 21, 2018 - 11:12am PT
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As a follow up;
Chains are like any other piece of equipment requiring both regular field maintenance and regular "major servicing".
When I was logging I'd take my saws and chains to the faller's shack on Saturday (often with a beer in hand) and use their vice and bar jig to give my saws and chains a weekly tune up; typically with the faller's guidance and support.
The bigger falling operations would have grinder (which I never used) for these major tune ups but the boys had to keep then sharp in the field.
In addition to tuning my chains, the saws would get a major cleanup including compressed air to blow the air filters clean.
I never felt confident at setting my carburetor for optimal performance and would rely on the fallers to get the saw purring nicely.
Trying to keep my chains sharp on the job site was the daily challenge so I had my dedicated sharpening stump and saw storage set up by the yarder or near operations.
It was inevitable that in spite of my best efforts I'd "rock" my chain in the heat of battle and have to grab my spare to finish the round of bucking then, in the lulls between trucks, tune both chains up for the next round.
Although I had mentioned using a guide, this is more of a learning or "registering" tool either for beginners or as part of the "major tune up".
I quit using guides once I got a better handle on my filing technique.
Most chains have a default angle line scribed at the back of the tooth to align your file with and once you get used to that don't need a guide.
Dull chains make you work harder and you end up prying way too hard on your bucking dogs and wearing out the cushions in the saw which in turn creates the jeopardy of RSI from vibration which will lead to a condition know as "white hand".
Keep both hands on your saw and try to work offside a bit so when the saw does kick back (because it will!) you can control it's trajectory away from your body's centreline.
Whether you're a professional or just cutting firewood, running a saw without full length bucking chaps or pants is an unjustifiable risk in my books.
Replacing a dull chain with a new chain is not an economical reality for working professionals.
Thanks for letting me share and; Stay Tuned!
PB
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 21, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
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learned from an old drunk logger to free hand. Confirmed with an arborist just recently that they still free hand.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Dec 21, 2018 - 12:59pm PT
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Pferd cs-x chainsharp or Stihl 2 in 1 file holder
Best file holder available.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Dec 21, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
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I use a Dremel tool- does a pretty good job
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Dec 21, 2018 - 03:48pm PT
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Once again Chief is right. Wear chaps. First time I put mine on and worked for a day in them they became as indespensable as my saw and hearing protectors. Now I wear a helmet with a face shield too. More than once I’ve been hit by a loose branch I did know was hanging in the tree I was cutting.
Beautiful work Steve.
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Dec 21, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
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Chief nailed it. Might take a little practice, but you can dial it in. One run through a log, and you'll find out quickly enough whether one side needs a little more attention than the other.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Dec 21, 2018 - 05:33pm PT
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A carbide tip blade is the ticket. It cost me about 70 bucks and depending on frequency of use it lasts forever without sharpening. Forever I tell you! Cuts through oak like butter.
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Dec 21, 2018 - 06:55pm PT
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Chief,
You be da’ man! I was high lead logging in the coastal forests of Washington in the early 70’s. There’s a special place in hell reserved for me for all the trees i took down. I had two 075 Sthil saws with 36” and 42” bars. We always carried a couple extra sharpened chains in the woods with us so we didn’t have to screw around with sharpening in the field except for extraordinary occasions. We used to buy our chain by the roll and bar oil by the 5 gallon bucket.
Did you ever ride the rigging? More than once I found myself 50’ to 60’ off the ground straddling a dangling choker sitting on a stick jammed through the bell swinging wildly trying to fend off the other guys that were trying to kick the stick I was sitting on.
I bought my “corks” from the old Valley climber, Will Tyree. He told me, before i’d ever been out there, to “stay out of the bight”. “You won’t know what i’m talking about now, but just remember, stay out of the bight. You’ll figure it out”. My first week setting chokers I found myself sitting on a stump waiting for the turn to be dragged to the landing. I was facing downhill looking to the bottom of the “road”, probably close to a thousand feet away. It suddenly dawned on me that I was seeing the haulback looping uphill towards me. I dove off the stump just before it hit, right where i’d been sitting, and the cable left a 1” deep groove in the wood. The light went off. I was in the “bight”, the death triangle between the haulback and the mainline.
I don’t miss those days. Getting up at 5am in the dark. Driving out in the “crummy” in dark pouring down rain. Working all day in pouring down rain. Driving back to town in the steaming smelly “crummy” as it was getting dark in pouring down rain. Next day: repeat. Nope. Don’t miss it.
Taking down a monster sans helmet.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 21, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
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Yikes ! When men were men and sheep were scared. I never run a saw these days without chaps and helmet with eyes and ears protected...
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Dec 21, 2018 - 10:48pm PT
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Jeezuz Crisis Mastodon, that's a pretty minimalist gyppo accoutrement ensemble!
And no Humboldt either!
At the risk of further thread drift, I never worked as a full time faller but murdered a lot of trees daylighting right of way while working as a Second Loader cherry picking right of way.
I did the whole program from the Haida Gwaii to the Elcho as an IWA logger setting beads, pulling rigging, landing man, tending hook on steel spars and grapple yarders and spent a sh#t ton of time in really hazardous landings covering the Chaser, Landing Bucker and Second Loader's jobs in remote, steep coastal shows.
Only rode the tweezers on the grapple yarder once as the practice was generally frowned upon and I never trusted most operators.
Graduated to running both grapple yarders and line grapple loaders (American 7220s and a brand new Madill 122) before moving on after eleven years lucky to still be alive.
I had some incredible adventures logging especially the few years working in a logging camp deep in the BC Coast Range on the Homathko River about twenty miles from Mt. Waddington.
Big timber, steep terrain, manly men and total haywires, grizzlies, huge cutthroat and bull trout, big appetites and big problems.
The story of how I got my first job and some of the calamities and mayhem I survived probably wouldn't be believed.
Glad to have done it and survived and don't miss it too much too often.
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Dec 21, 2018 - 11:06pm PT
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Here's a horrific kickback story happened out MacBlo's Sproat Lake operation about 1984 ish.
The Second Loader's grooming a loaded truck with a long bar saw at full extension overhead while the truck driver is throwing his wrappers on directly behind him.
Saw kicks back at full throttle and pretty much beheads the truck driver.
True fukking story!
Don't stand in the bight when someone's running a saw!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 22, 2018 - 06:35am PT
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sounds like material for a book. I certainly would have loved to have a book of my Dads adventures in the ETO True stories are so much richer than fiction...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 22, 2018 - 06:47am PT
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pretty wild shot of Mastedon. he is missing all the kit the modern fellers have...
This is a crazy barberchair! probly already seen it but here it is agin. [Click to View YouTube Video]
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Dec 22, 2018 - 06:50am PT
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Yikes, Mr. Chief! You worked in a camp? I heard stories about those but they were all gone in Washington by the time I hit the woods. You can find a lot of historical reference to the life and hardships of the camps if you look around.
I was never a dedicated faller but did many of the things you did: hooking (hook tending), landing etc. That picture was taken after I had graduated (down) to cutting cedar for shake and shingle bolts. We were called “cedar rats”. Cedar shake bolts were bringing in $360 a cord in the mid 70’s and were usually able to cut, split and stack a cord a day per person. Helicoptering to the road and trucking to the mill was about $20 a cord each. I ended up buying my own 1 1/2 ton flatbed, a 1948 Dodge with a flathead 6 engine that got 7 miles to the gallon, empty or loaded. Never figured that one out.
Cutting cedar like that was as physically demanding as big-wall climbing.
Mike White, Drone Stephens and Fig (Mike Breidenbach) all “worked in the woods” in Forks Washington. I drove through Forks a couple months ago and looked up Fig who I hadn’t seen in 45 years. Never in a million years would I have recognized him. If anyone’s interested, I’ll post a recent picture of him. Not too many people here on the Taco would even remember him. Maybe Werner....
Holy s#it Mr. TMC, that’s your worst nightmare as a faller. That and “widow makers”.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 22, 2018 - 07:08am PT
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I fell asleep in a pie cut
I fell asleep in a pie cut
when I was out logging one day
it looked so warm and cozy
so I just slept the day away
I woke to the sound of a chain saw
and much to my distress
the pie cut was now closing in
on my warm and cosy nest
I fell asleep in a pie cut
and felt the fatal slam
of a tree truck pinching painfully
and turning me into jam
-jambo
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Dec 22, 2018 - 07:29am PT
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Using long dormant skills in my yard a few years ago taking down beetle kill trees. I got bids from local tree removal companies that came in around $10k. I said “screw you” and bought a thousand dollar saw (having gotten rid of all my logging gear decades ago) and did it myself. Ended up taking down about 60 dead or dying trees.
Here’s a great video. This guy has skiils (and luck).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9NRmYzLrvfM
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 22, 2018 - 07:49am PT
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Wow mastodon. that is some serious shite!
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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Dec 22, 2018 - 08:11am PT
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My last job working as the climber for my tree service in October 2017. The herniated discs have since taken me off my crew except for equipment repairs and stump grinding. My tree climber has it handled now...
Nowadays on jobs while the crew works, I’m miles away attending to bids, errands, or working in my shop. After forty five years in tree work, I don’t miss it.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2018 - 08:17am PT
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LOL Don.
Maybe 3 years ago?
Mike Breidenbach walked up to me on the job and my first thoughts was, .... Who the fuk is guy???
LOL, .... he's such a great guy so glad he came by .....
Good job doing that rip-off 10k tree bid yourself.
Will Tyree ... last time I saw him he told me to eat nothing but oranges that way the Martians won't get me when they land here.
LOL
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Dec 22, 2018 - 02:20pm PT
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Mastadon,
What you needed was a Kut-Kwik.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 22, 2018 - 06:05pm PT
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The best friend of a friend of mine decapitated himself in front of his wife while cutting
a snag on their property. It had grown around some barbed wire unbeknownst to him and
he was holding the saw at shoulder level when it hit the wire.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 22, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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Oh mann ... that sounds so horrible .....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 22, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
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Horrible is catching panty waist hunters on my wood sale...
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Dec 23, 2018 - 07:23am PT
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Grizzly scenario Reilly. Chainsaws are killers, even with all the
protective gear like chaps, sleeves, Kevlar topped boots, helmets with screens, etc.
RJ, I have to wonder why you have such disdain for hunters, is it the idea of it or just some ill mannered poacher type that you have a grub with?
I have used chainsaws since I was a kid, although it was limited to a 16 inch Homelite under my dad's direct supervision.
I learned the art of chainsawing in the forestry business which is so different in this part of the country when compared to the great NW.
Logging crews don't use the complicated system that Mastadon and the Chief talk about. Here the the terrain is flat with rolling hills some are called mountains). We are at the tail end of the Appalachian Mountains, known as the Piedmont.
In my time in forestry business the chainsaw was used on trees too big for the feller bunchers (giant machines with a diamond tooth blade close to the ground and hydraulic arms that wrapped around the tree), once cut at the
stump the operator would move to the next tree open up the arms and cut another, bunching the trees together and laying them down in neat piles for the skidder to pick up and drag to the iron de-limber gate, utilized by backing the skidder's load into the the gate several times removing most of the limbs.
Chainsaws were used to cut and limb the big oaks.
The skidder would drop the bunch next to a knuckle boom loader who sorted
the wood for loading on trailers into three piles - pulp wood, saw timber (lumber) and veneer logs (few) if any. As he sorted them he would pull the trees through one last de-limber that hydraulically pressed hardened rollers against the tree, grinding away remaining limbs.
The chainsaw was used to "limb up" the loaded trailers to free them of any thing hanging outside the bolsters. The pole saw eventually replaced the chainsaw for this job as it was much safer and quicker.
It wasn't always that mechanized, but I will save that for now.
I wear chaps the majority of the time, I will get lazy and not don them
when using a little limbing saw for a single cut or two. It is amazes me
how hot chaps are in the summer. I started wearing shorts instead of long pants to keep from overheating. I find the upper body protective wear to cumbersome and and overkill for cutting up storm wood for firewood and felling dead trees.
Bow saws were ruled unsafe by OSHA in the mid-90's. They can be bit unruly but are the best way to cut up logs on the ground. No kneeling or bending.
It is much easier for me to use a bow saw than to bend over. I bought a few
bows for spares before they became hard to find.
I have had to give up most saw work due to back issues, this is the second year in the past 30 I haven't cut firewood for myself and for the marketplace.
It is pleasurable work, nothing like a filling up the wood racks for seasoning, I doubt I will ever sell wood again but hope to be able to gather enough each year to heat the house.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Dec 23, 2018 - 08:34am PT
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Hey now! 10k divided by 60 trees is $167 per tree. Not such a ripoff if your labor is worth something.
I got one of those knee smiles. Super clean slice. I sharpen by hand.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 23, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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Tobia....No disdain for hunters here though maybe i should have some..Wooders rule , hunters suck is graffitti a friend and i saw becoming part of the folklore...
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Dec 23, 2018 - 08:58am PT
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I have a good friend that took is right eye out with a chainsaw. Didn't do the rest of his face much good either.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Dec 23, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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RJ, understood and thanks for the explanation.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 23, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
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I had an old XL12 that my dad got at a yard sale for $15.00 Really loud saw compared to todays saws. It had a real pop to it. Summertime, I was about 20ys old bucking up firewood with no shirt on. Pretty ripped. Some flatlanders stopped their station wagon in my driveway and let their little mop dog out to pee and it started pooping right in the middle of my driveway. I started walking slowly twords them curling the saw one handed and gunning it. They scooped up the little rat with half a turd still hanging out its butt, jumped in the station wagon and peeled out of there. I thought that was hilarious at the time.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Dec 23, 2018 - 11:07pm PT
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Tradman I want your truck.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 24, 2018 - 04:01am PT
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not a chance! If I win the lottery I would have the entire thing rebuilt but would keep the patina. I hate shiny trucks. I went to climb in the bed of my bosses fancy Toyota and stepped on the hub of his stupid aftermarket wheels. The plastic hub broke and he got all bent trying to tell me your supposed to stand on the tire not the hub when climbing into the back of a truck. I told him I have been climbing in the back of trucks for well over 50 years and ain't never had a damn wheel break...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 24, 2018 - 05:19am PT
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In a perfect world She would have the entire drive train in perfect Woking order with a rebuilt 292 but still looking bad ass and rough on the outside.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 24, 2018 - 05:22am PT
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Steve. That is an amazing project !
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otisdog
Social climber
Sierra Madre, Ca.
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Dec 24, 2018 - 06:36am PT
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To say I had a hard-ass for a father would be a bit of an understatement.
My grandmother ran a boarding house type of operation near Crowley Lake for fisher people. Every Memorial Day, I took the Greyhound from LA to Tom's Place, where she picked me up in her '62 F-150. I spent the summer splitting and stacking the cured wood that I had cut the previous year, and cutting more for the next year. McCulloch chain saws. That, and fishing Hot Creek on just about a daily basis.
It was an awesome escape from the old man. Come Labor Day, which I dreaded, it was time to Greyhound back. Chainsawing and splitting still takes me back to those blissful summers, and I enjoy it now as much as I did then. I probably should burn some of those cords!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 24, 2018 - 06:40am PT
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What was grandmas name...?
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Dec 24, 2018 - 10:37am PT
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Some Canadian chain saw culture
https://youtu.be/F-glHAzXi_M
(If someone can tell me how to post the video rather than the link that would help.)
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Dec 27, 2018 - 12:45pm PT
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Chief, like this:
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Dec 27, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
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Doing some saw work. Middle Eel Wilderness.
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otisdog
Social climber
Sierra Madre, Ca.
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Dec 27, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
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RottingJ.....
Evelyn Zerby...I'm thinking it was before your time. There were was 12 houses on Hilton drive, and "Crowley Lake" consisted of the trailer park & store...
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otisdog
Social climber
Sierra Madre, Ca.
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Dec 27, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
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Ontheedge- Stihls legal in the wilderness?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 27, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
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Zerby rings a bell...Before my time though...I know this local , Jeff , who's related to Tom of Tom's place...
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Dec 27, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
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Otis- we had a waiver for the saw work. It was a really fun trail project cause we got to jump in (I was a smokejumper) to the site.
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otisdog
Social climber
Sierra Madre, Ca.
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Dec 28, 2018 - 06:15am PT
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Johnny - the Zerby sign pointing up her driveway with the cat eye reflectors might still be on Hilton drive. I remember trying to bag it for the memories, but it was pretty permanent.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 28, 2018 - 06:19am PT
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I'll take a look next time i drive up there...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 30, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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Nice full load of maple and ash today from the storm a few weeks ago. The Jonsereds 2260 needs a new chain.. I have hit too much crap with this one... almost filed through as well....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 30, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
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The mighty 292 that could...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 30, 2018 - 05:32pm PT
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I wish. The info on the inside of the glove box lid indicates that in 1967 she had an oversize radiator and a 292. I figured out that the motor in her now is a 250. She is geared so low however that she usually seems to have enough power to get the job done. The 250 straight 6 has gobs of tourqe.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Dec 31, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
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Nasty natural barber chair that I saw today on my decent hike.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Great partnership. 2016 Jonsered 2260 pro saw and 1967 Chevy K20 still cleaning up from the big storm last month. just put on a new chain. OMG it cuts like butter.
Wish I was good enough to keep it just like new....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 22, 2019 - 04:49pm PT
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45years running a saw. only about 7 of those years wearing chaps. Guess I need new chaps now. Brushing a steep slipper hill with a 60cc pro saw probably not the best idea...
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 22, 2019 - 04:57pm PT
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Miss my my huskies, especially the 181 I rebuilt and ported. You could bury the bar and not bog the engine.
Looking to get a 555, something to be said for a lighter saw that still has some huevos
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Apr 23, 2019 - 07:12am PT
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Here’s a photo provided by Fig from the early 70’s that shows a logging crew moving a yarder. A more hardbitten bunch of desperados would be hard to find. Fig is the one with the fro just right of center.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 23, 2019 - 07:21am PT
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I got my first chainsaw last year. I use it mainly for firewood. I had no clue as to what I should get. My brother runs a tree service near Portland and he said most of his crew uses the Stihl MS 261. That was what I got but with the electronic fuel control and anti-vibration stuff. I don't have much experience to compare to but I love this saw. An extra bar and a few extra chains and wow, I'm a wood gettin' fool. Now I need an old beater 4x4.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 23, 2019 - 09:29am PT
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Wayno, yer in the right hood for cheap 4x4’s!
Remember, don’t ever think yer better than the saw! 😉
Thought of you the other night when I made my much esteemed Crème du Barry.
It’s every bit as good as The Wolseley’s in St James, if I do say. 🤡
Cool shot, Masta! Good memories going to loggers’ bars in Darrington, Index, Squamish BITD.
Even I behaved around those guys! Bruce Hawkins and I almost got into it in the Squamish bar about ‘73. That place was an epic dive!
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Jack Beard
Mountain climber
Kalispell, MT
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Apr 26, 2019 - 09:42pm PT
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I could still sharpen a chain with just a file and gloves, but for a couple of years have been using a Stihl 2 in 1 guide. Saves time, the files last longer, is well worth the cost.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 27, 2019 - 07:38am PT
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Any of you sharp-assed chainsaw whizzes done any carving? I have this big-assed stump that I want to turn into lazy-assed star-gazing chair. Any smart-assed suggestions?
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Apr 27, 2019 - 10:53am PT
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"Any smart-assed suggestions?"
Unless you want a stool you need a bigger stump.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 27, 2019 - 02:03pm PT
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34" tall and the bottom of the wedge cut is above my knees. 27" diameter. I think me skinny ass will fit rather well and still have arms on the side.
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Hardly Visible
Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
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Apr 27, 2019 - 10:39pm PT
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Mastadon,
I get a kick out of Fig's picture upthread, with the Olsen & Miller truck hauling the yarder. It would appear that I was maybe just a few years behind you in the Forks area, I had an uncle who introduced me into the busheling trade in 1975 for Grush and Woody logging in Forks. My only regret is that I didn't take more pictures, because now a days people would not believe the sh#t we did back then. Pretty much all of the yarders like the one in Fig's picture have been melted down into scrap iron and most logging today is a couple of guys running machines from comfortable heated cabs harvesting pecker poles, not many bushelers and few rigging crews these days.
Logging goes back a few generations in my family though, so I'll share a few pics you might get a kick out of.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Apr 28, 2019 - 05:30am PT
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Kevin Worral is pretty good, though he don't work cheap.
He traded me a chain job in return for honing a razor like wit into his posting here.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 28, 2019 - 06:10am PT
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So I bought new chaps to replace the ones that saved my leg last week. Just for shits and giggles I shot the old chaps with a .45acp which is about as low velocity that you can get out of a modern pistol. Result was it went through like butter. chaps didn't even wiggle. Apparently these are Not the made from the same type of Kevlar that bullet proof vests are..
just a little FIY for you drunk rednecks out there that might be tempted to test them while wearing them...
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Apr 28, 2019 - 07:32am PT
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HV, where the hell is Llatikcuf Washington?
I actually worked for Olsen and Miller in 1973. I replaced a guy who had been killed when he was sucked into a yarder guy-wire drum. Apparently the operator wasn’t paying attention.
I’ve been through Forks a few times in the past decade. My how that place has changed. Many of the mainstay businesses have closed. Most of the restaurants and bars are gone. The highway used to be littered with shake mills. Now only a couple remain. The town got a revival when the Twilight TV series was being filmed there but that has faded away.
Everything changes and everything stays the same. You gotta learn to roll with it or you’re gonna be one of those guys sitting on a bench staring out to sea thinking about the days he spent sailing on the big ships disappearing over the horizon... Hey wait! That’s me!
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 28, 2019 - 08:28am PT
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Llatikcuf? you must be reading left to right, don
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Hardly Visible
Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
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Apr 28, 2019 - 09:08am PT
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Don,
It must of been a real comfort for you to go to work under that same inattentive yarder operator who waxed a dude the week before. I only filled in a few times for a chaser, but just enough to know that I never wanted that job. Way too much opportunity for someone else to inadvertently kill you.
Forks found out like any other place that wore the title of Timber capitol of the world that it is only a crown you get to wear for the brief period that it takes you to log it out.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 28, 2019 - 09:20am PT
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Realtors work cheap in Forks.
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Apr 28, 2019 - 09:23am PT
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Hooblie- Hahahaha! I see it now. I may be slow, but I’m dumb to make up for it!! Hahahaha!!!
Reilly- Don’t kid yourself- there are some very expensive properties around Forks.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 28, 2019 - 09:35am PT
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LOL Realtor.com has 2 homes listed within 10 miles of Forks. The priciest is 389K.
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Apr 28, 2019 - 01:19pm PT
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It’s all relative, Mr Moss. I momentarily forgot that you live in an overpriced California area. There’s a house about a half a mile from my Tahoe house that’s on the market for $75 million. If that’s too pricey, there’s one even closer for $39,750,000.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 29, 2019 - 03:00pm PT
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I have never tried this before and you experts were no help.
A chair:
I'll clean it up with one of those chainsaw grinder wheels by Lancelot. Maybe I'll put some spar varnish or oil on it. We have dark skies here and this faces east away from the lights of town.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 29, 2019 - 03:02pm PT
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Very Nice.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 29, 2019 - 04:02pm PT
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See, you needed us like you needed a hole in yer head. Good werk.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 30, 2019 - 06:05am PT
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It was fun carving that chair but still work. For you guys that used a chainsaw for work, my respect.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Apr 30, 2019 - 06:11am PT
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Use a rat-tale file for crying out loud. Make sure you have a box of new files. Learn how to pull the file backwards. protect your self by covering the exposed teeth you are not filing with a glove. You have to learn how to push down HARD.
The only time you need a grinder is if you are cutting out roots all day out of rocks. Otherwise a grinder is obsolete.
I am an tree business owner for decades, so I know what the I am talking about. So don't question me or I may need to make a video and you will not like it.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 30, 2019 - 06:20am PT
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Otherwise a grinder is obsolete.
I use a file to sharpen. The grinder attachment is one of those wheels with a chain on it for shaping the stump. Or where you talking to someone else?
Post a video. I would like to see it. I can appreciate a pro at work. I am a total rookie with a chainsaw.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 30, 2019 - 07:27am PT
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donald perry -- "I am a tree business owner for decades, so I know what I am talking about."
You do?
Apparently, you missed that one by a mile ....lol
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 30, 2019 - 07:43am PT
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lol. I think it was an honest mistake. He is right about those grinder sharpeners. Those little chainsaw wheels for an angle grinder is not something I imagine a tree service guy would use on the job, but I could be wrong. They seem to work pretty good for some rough wood shaping. Anyone here ever use one?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 30, 2019 - 07:50am PT
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I know it was an honest mistake.
Just wanted to rib him for it for fun .....:-)
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 30, 2019 - 08:03am PT
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My little brother started a tree service business last year after spending a career behind a desk. He says it is fun but very stressful. Hard to find good help and keep them. He got me that chainsaw. He is also a great source for wood.
I'm kind of curious Mr. Perry, how did you do in your business? Make a good living? How many employees? I imagine back East you come across more hardwood than in say the Portland area. Did you just do the tree work or did you do firewood or milling or other wood processing?
The log behind the dog is the section above the stump that I carved. It is 5 feet long and 25-27" in diameter. After I cut a couple rings off it for some projects I'm going to play around with carving it. Any suggestions? I'm not in those cutesy animal sculptures, more into furniture.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 30, 2019 - 08:41am PT
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Turn it horizontal and make a bench. You’ll have to get creative with the legs,
but what else do you have to do? 😉
(If it were me the chunk you cut out for the seat would probably do nicely for legs)
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Apr 30, 2019 - 08:47am PT
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Chunks not chunk. There were a bunch of knots so I had to go back and make a few more cuts to break it up. I didn't feel safe making a cut from the top to get it out in one piece.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Apr 30, 2019 - 04:26pm PT
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[photo That's my son sitting in the skidder.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Apr 30, 2019 - 04:31pm PT
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Detroit Diesel air over hydraulic. We would overload that thing to top. A few times the truck tipped over because the load froze in the bed.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Apr 30, 2019 - 04:46pm PT
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I started out in firewood, then graduated to logging and thereafter did big only residential tree removal. Some of the trees were 6' diameter.
Lots of close calls in those early years, but falling out of the tree happened later. I fell out of the tree head first. Around the tree was one of those double clip lanyards wrapped around itself repeatedly to take up the slack. Either that opened or more likely the screw gate locker gradually unscrewed and dumped me out. I said "Jesus Help Me" and "If you don't I'm gonna land on the fence. Trying to grab branches with the back of your hands is impossible. Subsequently my saw on a leash got caught on the crotch of tree after I feel 10 feet. Not sure how that happened. It was attached by that breakaway stihl saw ring.
Another time I almost repelled of the end of a stitch plate 10' over the top of a steel fence post. It was late in the day and the rope was short. But, the rope bunched up on the end and did not go through.
There were countless close calls, the tree business is a lot more dangerous than climbing rock in Yosemite, and you do it every day, not just on the week ends. So I suppose I could say I had 3 X more experience plus I had it kicked up a few notches. It's less airy though, if that's a good thing.
I never encountered serious kickback, not sure how that really happens that you can get hit in the face, I think I would need to work at it. I always had a tight hand on the saw.
As time goes on you just realize that there is an accident waiting around every corner, and if you spend too much away from it, perhaps in the office, then your not ready. It's all about being ready. When I say ready I do not mean being smart or being safe, or following reasonable safety rules. That's something different.
For example, stupid is when you pay out extra slack at the gym for your leader when he is only a few feet off the floor. I see that all the time. Ready is being able to catch the really complex bad setup before it catches you.
Here is an example of not being ready, I suppose. [The climber is also stupid because the loaded crane is directly over him (the obvious) as he cuts limbs that are too big for the crane. Although sometimes loads change when your over a septic etc.] Note how this guy in the tree is not tied in. That's a good thing in this case. The bad thing is as the crane goes, it goes to the right and then to the left, the guy has no idea which way to go. If he was ready for the complex he would be ready to know you gotta just go go go one way or the other and not hesitate, and not just sit there and take it like a man. Stupid was that he never calculated where the boom was going in case of overload before he cut.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3pUlWHZPo0
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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Yikes, that was brutal. I see what you mean. Thanks for the follow up. I'm going to sell my saw now and forget about climbing trees ever.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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So I bought new chaps to replace the ones that saved my leg last week. Just for shits and giggles I shot the old chaps with a .45acp which is about as low velocity that you can get out of a modern pistol. Result was it went through like butter. chaps didn't even wiggle. Apparently these are Not the made from the same type of Kevlar that bullet proof vests are..
just a little FIY for you drunk rednecks out there that might be tempted to test them while wearing them...
Chainsaw chaps are nothing like a bulletproof vest, as you discovered. Chainsaw chaps are designed to quickly fray and ball up jamming the chain and bringing it to a quick stop. Needless to say body armor is designed for a completely different task.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyPa7wDdHMY
Here is another one. When you are up in a tree like this you have to be able to cut through the tree before it splits. If the tree is leaning hard then you have to be ready to move out of the way under or around another branch it case it explodes. Another problem is that if it gets hung up, though you have cut through, it can slide back on the stump and roll over into your lap. In this case you have no where to go. So, you have to cut it in small pieces. Small pieces is always the best answer, you have to cut it up small anyway. BTW, One think I found that was beautiful, if you have a powerful saw and it's really sharp you can cut the tree into 4" disks and just throw them on the truck. Saves a lot of time. But you have to put tarps down because there is gonna be hills of sawdust.
And here is a good example of not holding on to the tool tight enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJmdSgWeaas
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Republic, WA
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And here is a good example of not holding on to the tool tight enough.
That dumb little chair I cut was my first attempt at a plunge cut. I get it that the top of the tip can create kickback. I also understand the concept of being familiar with the potential forces of the tool you are using and be prepared. It reminds me of shooting a large magnum pistol like a .41 or a .44. Firm grip and get ready for some recoil. I get it. No need for any more scary videos, something about can't be unseen. Thanks for the stern warnings.
How many tree guys have PTSD?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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I wasn't with him when it happened, but the guy I did tree work with cut himself while up in a tree. He got himself down and to an emergency room. They told him to have a seat and wait! It was Oakland, probably a couple of gunshot victims in line and in worse shape. He told them no, walked towards the back and passed out from blood loss. Turned out fine but it scared him.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Public service announcement.
Learning how to sharpen a chainsaw on the internet is certainly doable. The worst that can happen, if you get it wrong, is the saw won't cut straight, or at all even, or you may get a few small cuts in your fingers while moving the chain improperly.
Although this thread is about chain saw sharpening and no one has asked for advice on climbing tree work, advice about climbing tree work is being offered in at least one post above. The advice is wrong. Follow it at your own peril. The worst that can happen, if you get it wrong, is you will be maimed or killed.
There are many professions, many trades, where one can be largely self taught. In my opinion the climbing aspect of arboriculture is not one of them. Perhaps the only way, certainly the best way, to become a good, and also safe, tree climber is to learn one on one and in person, from a good and very experienced tree climber.
Best to all.
Ridiculously Experienced Arboriculture Consortium Over And Out
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zBrown
Ice climber
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From 2006
Nationally, "tree workers have a fatality rate three or four times that of police officers and firefighters," said John Ball, a South Dakota State University forestry professor who tracks tree accidents nationwide. "Your odds of being killed in this industry are one in 3,000."
Statewide, California's Division of Occupational Safety and Health, known as Cal/OSHA, has investigated 394 tree-work accidents, including 67 deaths, since 1990, when the worker-safety agency began keeping statistics. More than half those accidents -- 214, including 42 deaths -- have happened since 2000, according to agency reports.
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perswig
climber
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...professor who tracks tree accidents nationwide.
But who tracks the trees that fall in the forest and no-one is there to hear it?
Dale
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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last time I checked the top 3 most dangerous occupations were deep sea fishing the North Atlantic. Logging and roofing. Law enforcement was #11 though that may have gone up a few notches in the last 3 years its still way behind the top 3.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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so I just looked it up and found the stats for 2018. the police got bumped to #14 way behind garbage collectors....
#1 Logging
#2 Deep sea fishing
#3 piolets and flight engineers. Must have been a rough year for plane crashes...
#4. Roofing.
I am not a roofer per say but certainly end up on a lot of roofs and occasionally find myself roofing. Did 2 asphalt roofs this winter. up there in snow squalls.. I feel like the frameing aspect is more sketchy. Humping 5/8ths sheets of Advantech sheathing up on the roof is super sketch inmop.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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The average number of fatalities per year logging is 66.
The average for tree workers is 96.
Edited to add:
Anecdotally, intuitively, tree work seems to me to be about as risky as high altitude mountaineering.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I am assumeing that they lumped logging and tree work together on the OSHA page?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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#3 piolets and flight engineers. Must have been a rough year for plane crashes...
I hope the piolets in my basement don’t find out what danger they’re in!
As for flight engineers, it’s like that saying: “You can’t pick yer family.”
And, BTW, there’s not been a commercial aircraft in the sky for 20 years with a flight engineer
in it. Yer list is bogus.
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