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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 16, 2018 - 02:24pm PT
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So my wife is a buck 10. I'm a buck 90. I bought her a 9.2 70 meter. 8ish % static elongation, 34%ish dynamic elongation. She swears by it and loves it. Now for me I hate it cause I can't reasonably predict my landing spot. Especially when striking a small ledge is of concern. We mulipitch mostly so weight is a factor.
I personally like a big rope 10.2 a least. We argue (in a friendly manner of course) what rope to bring. I simply say I'll carry the rope but she hates leading on the big rope. Big guys, what do you use?
I looked up the question but didn't see a thread here. This is almost like a car talk question.
S...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Dec 16, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
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What is your application, for a climbing rope?
For a Big Wall, the best thing is a heavy, fat rope that can withstand repeated abuse, and still be safe.
For a top-roping giggle-fest, a weakling half-rope may be sufficient.
The trend is for thinner ropes that can sustain a half-dozen UIAA falls. But, a thicker rope has psychological aspects not measurable on a drop-fall mechanism.
Thinner ropes are inherently more likely to be cut over an adverse edge that is not shown on a topo.
Personally, it is scary enough to jug a big, fat Big Wall rope, let alone lead up, far away from a last piece of protection. I don't understand the benefit of tying into a piece of tooth floss in order to save a few pounds.
A "puffy rope" that is the diameter of a Big Wall rope, but has the weight of a Sporty Rope may be a suitable compromise for free climbers - not suitable for all applications.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
An improved diet, and not a focus on technique, is suggested for a climber using the rope shown below.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Dec 16, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
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The tag on your rope may not tell you this:
At the factory, the machine winds it onto a spool, slides it off laterally, and it is delivered with the configuration of a coil spring.
It is necessary to unwind the coil of rope before use.
If you simply pull both ends of a rope coil out in opposite directions, you induce twists in the rope (one twist per coil) that greatly weakens your climbing rope.
The proper technique is to tie one end of the rope to a tree, and then walk backwards, while unrolling the coils in your forearms, as if reverse Disco dancing (c.f. John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever).
Always use a figure-8 coiling method in the field, to ensure no twists.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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Ahh its just a little dispute between us. If I was to climb a wall I would just take the beefy one. But when we are gear climbing (multi-pitch near my level) I don't always know where my gear placement will be available. In Eldo ledges abound. In Indian Creek you're generally free from ledges so whistle away. The "Valley" it's mixed. But I don't have enough experience there to say. I guess as far as application its kinda all the above. I'm 6'3 190lbs and I hate these skinny ropes!
Maybe a dumb question.
Carry on...
S...
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 16, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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Compromise.
If you're swinging leads for the day, then flip a coin and bring the rope of toss winners choice.
If one of you is leading most or all the pitches, bring the rope of that person's preference.
I like a 10.2 mtself, but I think it's really just a mind game.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 16, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
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I use the Blue Water Enduro (11mm) for walls. But for everything else, I find 4mm from any reliable manufacturer to be sufficient motivation that I've never had to test the reliability of any manufacturer.
I highly recommend this approach, and, once you try it, you'll thank me regarding weight, friction, and ease of rope-run.
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Dec 16, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
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It depends...
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tallguy
Trad climber
tacoma
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Dec 16, 2018 - 04:44pm PT
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16 mm or greater for peace of mind, but i cant seem to find anyone who makes a rope like that. I have to make do with something around 10 mm.
6'5", 195 or so on a good day.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Dec 16, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
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So I was just scrolling the topics and even though I knew this thread,my mind read the title as "Big Guys what is your diaper of choice?"
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Dec 16, 2018 - 05:41pm PT
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I’m 195#
If there’s going to be any jumaring, I don’t want anything under 10mm, both for durability but also because, well, it’s scary.
For rock climbing at the crags and moderate length routes, I usually use a 9.5 mm. For alpine I have used 9.2 and 8.9, but I’m less psyched on those small ropes if it’s of sufficient difficulty where a fall is likely, and/or it’s a long route on alpine granite where durability is an issue. On the 8.9, I’ve actually taken 20 foot falls on top rope. Not so cool when above ledges.
I really don’t like ropes larger than 10 for free routes both because of weight and that they can be too stiff in the belay device.
Edit: for ice I’ll usually use twins or 8.2 doubles. You don’t fall ice climbing :)
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
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Dec 16, 2018 - 05:44pm PT
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170 pounds here,
Thinnest single I have ever owned is a 9.7mm
I do own 7.7 twins / doubles for multi pitch
Can’t see dropping below a 9.5 personally
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 16, 2018 - 05:46pm PT
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I climbed for years on a single 8.8mm rope.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Dec 16, 2018 - 07:22pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Duck leads the Rostrum and Astroman using a 0.0mm rope.
You can't blindly trust his advice. What works for him may not work for you.
And, I'm not saying that the Duck has a hidden agenda for promoting the use of really, really thin ropes, but he makes money when people crater in Yosemite.
Another consideration: do you ever yo-yo a pitch? A fatter rope would be better in that situation.
This topic could be translated, without effort, from a "Which Racket?" topic from SuperTennis.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Dec 16, 2018 - 07:42pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fair enough. It should have read . . . . . . .
. . . . his job is to clean up the mess when people in Yosemite crater.
I was not trying to rip WVB a new one. I was trying to engage with the idea that WVB's rope suggestion was ironic . . . . . he free solos routes that most people would not be able to follow, even with a 33mm rope.
My suggestion is either:
Mammut Supersafe - 10.2mm
Yates Big Wall - 11mm
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Dec 16, 2018 - 09:22pm PT
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See if your mate will go for two 1/2 ropes. If she is light enough, she could get by with leading on just one 1/2 rope. Then you could lead on both ropes clipping them together when you are worried about the fall potential. There still a hassle, in my opinion, but it's a safe option, i would think.
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Outside
Trad climber
Truckee
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Dec 16, 2018 - 09:32pm PT
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Fatter is better!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Dec 16, 2018 - 10:28pm PT
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Rope, smope.
Yer still gonna die.
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adventurous one
Trad climber
Truckee Ca.
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Dec 16, 2018 - 11:29pm PT
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Thicker is better unless you never fall where there might be a ledge below or a sharp edge for the rope to run over, or climb where rock never comes off the wall (Gym or sport climbing) Recreational, outdoor rock climbing is not a competition where every ounce counts. A bit of extra weight should not have a significant affect on how much fun you're having. Hitting a ledge due to rope stretch or having your rope sliced through could have a very significant affect on your happiness. Twice I have had my rope cut 75% through (both times from rock fall that came off while leading). Both times were with an 11mm rope. I try not to think what would have happened with a thinner rope. I still lead on a 10.8 mm and don't mind the weight compared to the extra safety, or at least psychological feeling of safety.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Dec 17, 2018 - 05:36am PT
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I'm just envious that you have a wife that obviously likes to get out and get after it. Good for you.
When I was dating my wife she followed most Gunks 5.10s. When we got engaged she struggled to follow non-overhanging Gunks 5.8s. When we got married she cried on our honeymoon while following the first pitch of Chitlin Corner (5.7) in Acadia National Park in Maine; obviously the 5.10 roof/corner on the 2nd pitch was out of the question. I have pictures of her at the optional hanging belay on the classic 5.5 Horseman in the Gunks. I believe that was the last pitch of climbing she ever did aside from one or two short and easy top-ropes I had set up for the kids and their friends at the local choss pile.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 17, 2018 - 05:53am PT
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200 here.... double 8.5 Mammut genisis's for rock and ice.
Thickest sheath of any double. Before an obvious crux, two bomber pieces clipped to each separate rope.
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couchmaster
climber
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Dec 17, 2018 - 08:40am PT
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I have multiple ropes. They all get bought when they are on sale.
Currently:
*Multipitch with long hikes in that don't need to be rapped to get off: Beal Joker 9.1 X 60 and 70.
*Multipitch with long hikes in that DO need to be rapped to get off: Metolius 7.8 x 60 double ropes.
* Toproping where you are getting lowered: 11mm x 47 and a 11mm x 60 (these were sale ropes and dirt cheap). Use 2 steel biners at the anchor point. Walls: the long phat one.
Multipitch where I think it's likely I'll fall or weight the rope: bigger is better, got a couple 10.2s. My son bought me a Edelweiss 9.9 x 70 duo pattern as a gift because he said I'd be too cheap to buy it myself. Then when he saw that I was keeping it in reserve he insisted I take it out and use it, So I did and used it for everything: and I got about 6 months out of it till it chopped, most likely jugging on it but was toproping as well.
And then ya got yer statics and differing belay devices for the ropes, in fact I have an extra device so if my partner shows up with something that is recommended at 10mm and up and I brought a 9.1 I can get a solid lead belay catch if I ever need it....:-) (DMM Bugettes)
Back in the day there was only 11mm diameter ropes and folks climbed all kinds of stuff with them and it worked fine.
*
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 17, 2018 - 08:47am PT
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The fattest one somebody else is gonna carry for me.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 17, 2018 - 08:50am PT
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Simple fact of physics - fat people don't get to use ultralight gear. I've seen stripped and cut ropes, broken biners, ground falls due to stretch and lack of friction, etc.
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ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
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Dec 17, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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Real question here is why she can't lead with a 10.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Dec 17, 2018 - 10:14am PT
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Twin 9mm
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Dec 17, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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half 7.8s or single 9.8
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 17, 2018 - 10:33am PT
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^^^ Yup, I can just picture Werner rubbing his hands together in glee whenever a rescue call comes in: "Money, money, money. Here comes the money. I jes luv dem skinny ropes!"
LOL
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jstan
climber
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Dec 17, 2018 - 10:39am PT
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Jugged once on 3/8" goldline.
ONCE
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 17, 2018 - 11:20am PT
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Used to solo in the Cascades with a 7mm, but it was only for abseiling.
It sure looked skinny while dangling, and talk about springy!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 17, 2018 - 11:24am PT
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Not just braided, ultra-stretchy. You'd jug for about 50 feet before finally leaving the ground. And then, yeah, boing, boing, boing.
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JoeyNMG
Trad climber
Lincroft
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Dec 17, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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10.0 and larger.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 17, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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Dood, I was a lot lighter then, plus I didn’t want to stress my sketchy anchors.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 17, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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They are rated as singles, so I clip just one at a time if I want to reduce the rope drag.
...Then you could lead on both ropes clipping them together when you are worried about the fall potential. There still a hassle, in my opinion, but it's a safe option, i would think.
FWIW it’s not a great idea to clip both doubles (half ropes) into one placement (or bolt.) The two together are less dynamic than a regular single rope. These ropes are designed to be clipped independently. On the other hand, double twin ropes are not rated individually, only as a pair, and are designed to clip every piece of pro.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 17, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
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8.5 mm genesis.
I pretty much just use them as half ropes.
Hope I don’t wear them out before the mortgage on them is due.
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Rankin
Social climber
Winston-Salem, North Carolina
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Dec 17, 2018 - 04:43pm PT
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9.5 to 9.8 is what passes for a medium to fat rope these days and would be plenty for any size climber I’ve met. I’m not a heavier climber but I’d never go above 9.8 for an outdoor rope. Just too much weight and bulk to carry. I’m rolling with a 9.8 Sterling which I like because it is durable and provides a soft catch without being too stretchy for toproping.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 17, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
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Mammut Genesis can be use as a double, or a single rope. When used as a double, it will stretch less, thus reducing the risk of hitting the ground.
It will only stretch less if both ropes catch the fall. If you are genuinely using them as doubles, ( aka half ropes- alternating ropes through clips) that’s not necessarily likely. When you alternate clips and run out even a little, only one rope is likely to catch you.
If you use them as twins( both ropes through all clips) they will more likely stretch less than a single.
It’s pretty situational. You have to be aware of how you are engineering the protection.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 17, 2018 - 05:56pm PT
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Dec 17, 2018 - 04:43pm PT
9.5 to 9.8 is what passes for a medium to fat rope these days and would be plenty for any size climber I’ve met. I’m not a heavier climber but I’d never go above 9.8 for an outdoor rope. Just too much weight and bulk to carry. I’m rolling with a 9.8 Sterling which I like because it is durable and provides a soft catch without being too stretchy for toproping.
What do you do about rope length rappels?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 17, 2018 - 06:13pm PT
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Please, Kris, tell us more.
As you said, your double half ropes are rated for some number of falls used singly, as they are when you clip them alternately. And yes, if you clip them doubly through one piece or bolt, there will be less stretch, but therein lies the problem. The two half ropes working together through one anchor will be less dynamic, stretch less and absorb less energy than a good single rope. It’s a case where two half ropes add up to a more static catch than one single.
Since everything in climbing is situational, I’ve clipped them both plenty of times; near the deck or above a ledge with solid gear, times like that. And of course before I knew any better.
If I’m not making sense try the gear guy
edit: While I was dealing with something here, Lorenzo got it in far fewer words... :-)
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Dec 17, 2018 - 07:29pm PT
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Don't use a rope.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 17, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
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If you are afraid the rope stretch will put you in danger, you clip both ropes.
Sure, so long as your gear is reliable enough to stand up to the magnified forces in a fall. Better to stretch some than pull the gear.
I've used doubles for long traditional routes for thirty or more years. Like you, there have been plenty of times I've clipped 'em both. As we both said, it's all situational.
So I'm not quite sure what we're disagreeing about. I just brought up the fact that two doubles clipped through the same anchor will be more static than a normal single rope in the same situation. One more factor to consider, that's all.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 19, 2018 - 11:07pm PT
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If you are going to use a big rope you will need to upgrade those anorexic biners. This is the big guy special. Tipping the scales at 10 pounds, racking six draws could be the crux move. On the plus side, no need to worry about cross-loading or gate flutter.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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Dec 20, 2018 - 02:56am PT
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I'm 195lbs. I started on 11mm ropes back in the 70's. I just bought a Sterling 50m x 11.2mm for Josh and the gym. Man, I love the thing.
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Dec 20, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
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I prefer double ropes, period. Usually 9.8 x 2, or a single 10.5.
With the "barriga" I carry, Using smaller (aka lighter) ropes seems beside the point.
jg
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Dec 20, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
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Being older, heavier and somewhat smarter, I now use a 9.8 or a 10. And a harness too, of course. And some pro!
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2018 - 03:57pm PT
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Thanks for all replies. Some are pretty funny. :-)
I carry at least a 10.2 mm after an 80 ft+ fall on a new 9.7mm that blew out the sheath and some cords. I think it blew out my vocal cords too! I blew the crux and I thank my partner for catching me. It was all air!!!
This move to skinnier and skinnier ropes just worries me.
I find myself climbing with folks that insist on the skinniest rope advertised and its hard to explain to them how trivial the extra mass of a few extra mm is. Again I generally climb multi-pitch with a water bottle at my hip, 3 bars, a headlamp, and climb in high-top shoes with socks for the descent so I don't carry my size 14 approach shoes.
Thanks!
S....
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Dec 21, 2018 - 06:01am PT
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Another issue with skinny ropes is that they wear out faster. The least imperfection and I lose confidence and want to replace them. And they are not necessarily cheaper than fat ropes.
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fragglerockjoe
Trad climber
space-man from outer space
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Dec 27, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
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11 mm Bluewater Enduro is rated to 15 falls and is reasonably priced.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 27, 2018 - 11:13pm PT
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Another issue with skinny ropes is that they wear out faster. both fat and skinny last forever if you don’t use them. Beyond that, it depends how you treat them.
The least imperfection and I lose confidence and want to replace them.
Are we talking about the ropes or your insecurities? The last I checked, the UIAA has no record of two ropes cutting in a fall....ever.
And they are not necessarily cheaper than fat ropes.
I find they are usually more expensive. Don’t care.
There are records of people buying it by using old gear too long. If you want to imagine loosing confidence, just imagine yourself falling through the air arms flailing and you thinking
“ shoulda bought a new rope”.
Personally, I don’t care much what they cost. Climbing is a cheap sport compared to others I have engaged in.. try buying a boat.
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