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big ears
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 21, 2018 - 03:13am PT
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[youtube=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FJQdSQb5SvM&t=610s]
I know this wasnt his red point burn, but at 10:10 it looks like he briefly climbs off route to shake out. Bad style?
Also for the record, im a big fan of these guys, just trying to stay awake on this night shift by stirring up some discussion
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
the pitch above you
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Nov 21, 2018 - 03:32am PT
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He clearly grabbed a red taped hold while climbing the green tape route.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Nov 21, 2018 - 06:35am PT
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Plenty of routes in the Gunks where you'd climb up into the maw of a steep, roofy section, place gear and climb down and over to a ledge for rest; and the ledge is usually way off to the side on a 5.3 or something.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:15am PT
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I checked with God. He indeed did kill a puppy for that transgression.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:29am PT
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It's only bad style if you lie about it. Or if you damage the rock.
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:29am PT
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If you can reach it, it's not off route.
If a route requires you to ignore obvious rest stances, is it contrived?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:50am PT
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In what bizarre universe is utilizing a feature of the route going off-route?
(Ans: on a grid-bolted sport climbing wall, which this certainly is not.)
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:51am PT
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I'd personally call it a route defect. On popular routes, it usually gets called out in the guidebook or somesuch as to how people feel about it or how it effects the grade. Example - Espresso at Rifle has an opportunity for a cheater rest before the crux, makes a huge difference, use it and you've done another route of a different name and you get knocked a letter or two on your 8a.nu score. Etc...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 21, 2018 - 07:55am PT
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In what bizarre universe is utilizing a feature of the route going off-route?
Woot World, where you only clip the original bolts for the trad ascent experience
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 21, 2018 - 08:04am PT
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WOW .... awesome looking pitch!!
Draws you in immediately to want to lead this beaut.
The sequence where he blew it I would have gone a bit higher and tried pinky down left crack left hand and not trying for the right hand jam so early.
Maybe maybe not.
Anyways ... forget this st00pid peanut galley and good luck on next try!!!
Give it a good name it deserves tooo ......
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big ears
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
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He clearly traversed off the line to shake out. But i fell asleep before i got to really stir this sh!t up, so i dont care any more.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 21, 2018 - 12:18pm PT
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Using natural features on a line is not bad style...to not do so makes the route contrived. Any comments on the preplaced gear?
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big ears
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2018 - 12:45pm PT
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I noticed the pre placed gear as well, doesnt look like he used it. Maybe from a previous RP burn? To lower off?
(Edit:) Also, maybe “bad style” is too harsh. Would it be “better style” to stay in the crack system? Where do you draw the line? Two moves off the line to a shake out is fine, but what if it was 15 moves to a standing ledge?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Nov 21, 2018 - 02:01pm PT
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What he said ^^^
Still tied in? Outside?
Not off route.
Oh and I think what Chaz referenced above leans more to the ethical, rather than merely stylistic. Then again, if 8a.nu gets you sponsors and using a rest of any kind is not the game for sponsorship, it could be an ethical consideration that a deserving candidate didn't get sponsored over another because they other didn't disclose their style.
So the real question is an ethical one:
Is it required to disclose your style? That's a transparency question for putting oneself up for evaluation, not a personal style question.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Nov 21, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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Nice route. There was gear hanging from the route but it looked to me like he only used gear he placed.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Nov 21, 2018 - 03:13pm PT
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I've gotten way more off route than that and thought I was still on route.
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big ears
Trad climber
?
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2018 - 03:40pm PT
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SomebodyAnybody good point, you might be right, but its hard to tell if he would have had to use those holds if he stayed on the line.
I mainly bring this up bc its an ongoing friendly argument i have with my main climbing partner. How far off the line is “off route”. Ive seen people traverse 5 feet to the right to sit down. Is that off route? I remember a route at HCR from back in the day, where i saw people basically climb the 5.8 to the left of a 5.11, but traverse into the 5.11 to clip the bolts. Then aim the 5.11. Thats obviously a way different scenario than this, just curious
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DanaB
climber
CO
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Nov 21, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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Boulder Canyon sport climbs.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 21, 2018 - 11:43pm PT
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My frame of reference is all day adventure climbs. If you see a sitting rest off to the side before or after a crux, heck yeah that is on.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Nov 22, 2018 - 07:11am PT
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I did this cool sport climb in Pine Creek Canyon (Bishop) called "Sub-Atomic." It has virtually every kind of climbing move in its 70 meters--stems, fingers, hands, chicken wing, chimney--you name it. About 1/3 of the way up, I discovered a no-hands SITTING rest. The wall is way vert, maybe a tad overhanging at times, and you can place your butt on this perfectly situated ramp and set your feet on the opposite wall. It's friggin' awesome. You'd be a fool NOT to take the rest and check out the view. It's harder if you skip the rest. And? You can also make it harder by doing a bunch of pull-ups mid-route off one of the jugs. Should we now evaluate sends on how many mid-route pull-ups you do before completing a given route?
BAd
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Nov 22, 2018 - 07:23am PT
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Cool vid. Definitely NOT bad style.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Nov 22, 2018 - 09:16am PT
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How many folks here stepped off to rest on the no hands ledge 40 feet up on Mr. Clean at DT? I was there so long they changed my mailing address
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Nov 22, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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I mainly bring this up bc its an ongoing friendly argument i have with my main climbing partner. How far off the line is “off route”. Ive seen people traverse 5 feet to the right to sit down. Is that off route? I remember a route at HCR from back in the day, where i saw people basically climb the 5.8 to the left of a 5.11, but traverse into the 5.11 to clip the bolts. Then aim the 5.11. Thats obviously a way different scenario than this, just curious
Climbing 5.8 moves off to the left and moving over to clip bolts isn't the same thing as fighting straight through crux moves, but I guess it's fine if you wanna climb 5.8 and clip the bolts on what could've been a 5.11. Same thing for taking a seat off to the side. It's mainly "bad style" if your goal was to do something else. What "Chaz" said I guess. Anyone who climbs a 5.8 and "claims" a 5.11 is in for a hard lesson, unless they already know down deep they're lying.
I have to admit, there are times when I'm climbing an established route and I'm not sure if I read it "right" (e.g. I'm thinking: going straight through here looks really hard and the route's only rated 5.9, so I'm going over there). It can be fun to see the solution other people did. Especially if it's better than going over there. However, I'm not sure I'd call misreading a route "bad style". It's more like a mistake.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 22, 2018 - 10:39am PT
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If a 5.11 route allows you to use the bolts on it while climbing 5.8 it is contrived and not worth doing.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Nov 22, 2018 - 12:05pm PT
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When I was living in Salt Lake City, the Ogden group I sometimes climbed with had a word for climbing way off the line of a route, perhaps even putting yourself in danger, to avoid a more difficult (albeit more direct and perhaps even safer) move. Not the sign of making good decisions, I admit, but something that can happen from time to time. Maybe an error the great Donini and the great Kingtut never make, but an error I've been guilty of more than once. Perhaps as I get older, my memories of this will fade, as well.
So anyway, this was called "Reamerizing the route", in honor of someone the group had climbed with, whose surname was Reamer. Reamer, who I had never met, had difficulties making the full transition from his own self-learned form of mountaineering to the demands of more technical climbing. He was famous with the group for going to great lengths to put himself in danger by climbing off to one side or another, going through bushes, dirt, loose rock, whatever it took, to avoid a perplexing crux, and then being quite pleased with his success when it worked.
The punch line of the story is that, maybe a decade later, I met (and spent some time with) this French climbing guide, pretty hard-core dude, while passing most of the summer climbing in Frey. So we get to talking, and somehow the topic turns to climbing in Ogden, which I feel has some pretty good and unheralded rock (Donini: have you ever checked out the Schoolroom Wall or the Macabre Wall?). So anyway, the guide says excitedly that Ogden is where he was introduced to climbing. He went there as an exchange student in high school or junior high school or something like that. It was the family that he lived with, in Odgen, (specifically the "dad") that introduced him to climbing. In the guide's eyes, this man who had introduced him to climbing, in those formative years, was a hero, a legend, almost godlike. And guess who it was? It was the great Mr. Reamer. I smiled and nodded, saying I never met that man, and kept my knowledge of "Reamerizing the route" to myself.
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Roadie
Trad climber
moab UT
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Nov 22, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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yawn
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| Messages 1 - 26 of total 26 in this topic |
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