Discussion Topic |
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| Messages 1 - 44 of total 44 in this topic |
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 12, 2018 - 10:55pm PT
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Tiffypoo- looks like a good one to try and push the wide grades.
Jaybro, let me know when you’re coming through and in need of a belay slave. I can probably rearrange work and get a day out to Vegas.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 13, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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Yes that’s what started this
exploration
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 13, 2018 - 09:59am PT
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Don’t know the Knight😎. What I heard a rumor of was something more recent where someone might have chopped All the bolts, belay bolts too. From what I gather, cprop just removed some bad pro bolts that were halfway out, that you don’t need...
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 10:16am PT
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Another weird one I always remember is when someone chops the bolts to replace them with better new ones.
The original bolt was placed in the wrong place and the replacement was replaced in the same st00pid place as the original, lol.
Just like American politards ......
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mike a.
Sport climber
ca
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Nov 13, 2018 - 10:17am PT
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This woman is hard core!!! that was an awesome video fun to watch, She sure is a brave and awesome climber :-) Love this stuff!!! thanks for sharing.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 13, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
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As an aside, I’ve led that pitch where she had repeated trouble clipping. And the ‘ special draw’ came unclipped, from the rack and bonked her at a hebelay!. I thought it was a rock but when I got to the bolt, I didn’t have the magic tool😱! As I’m seven inches taller than her and have a plus four ape index, it wasn’t as bad for me but I did have to lock off in the
Middle of a ~5.10 move and make the the clip! Then almost do the hard move it protects, before falling off. Good times!!
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couchmaster
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 03:38pm PT
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Love that vid Zardoz. Where she clips the bolt and makes that move at @ 9min is some great film, solid climbing too. That woman is strong. The struggle is real!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 13, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
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9:36 is pretty cool seeing the dyno transition from hand-fist stack to maximal cupped-hand-ish and gaston. Wow, that sentence would be indecipherable to a non-climber.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 13, 2018 - 06:10pm PT
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what was more impressive about The Kill Artist was seeing Pam at night after her repeated attempts, totally beat up and spent, but going out the next day and getting on it.
Props to her, and her vision. Too bad someone felt threatened by it and decided to chop it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 13, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
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And yeah, Dingus I assume that bolt has been chopped. Although I don’t know what “ “chopped” really means ( hangers removed, the whole thing beat to death with a sledge hammer, cones left it and patched over. Somehow I think the violence of the act in this case makes the probability of patching, unlikely. It’s not like it was something done out of a want to preserve the rock) untill we go up and look.
What’s with people, these days?
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 06:29pm PT
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at least they waited to chop after she finished it, but still... Her explanation of the hospital visit was enough for me. IMHO, very polite of her to take the time to make a small hole in the rock for others. Without an anonymous video of a boltless ascent, seems a little disrespectful too.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 13, 2018 - 07:38pm PT
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Um no, there was one more pitch to go to the summit, we were going to go up there this weekend. Then the manifest o arrived. He poached the last pitch. Then chopped it and the rest.
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 13, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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My 2 cents. Few folks could ever get in that rig, why not be civil? Bad style on the choppers part. Seems like a big desert. Go crap in your own sandbox. Kudos to you and yours jaybro, or is that her and her's.
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Aeriq
Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
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Nov 13, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
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Jay, from the video, it just looked like a really long 1/2" 5-piece Powers bolt.
"Chopping" in this sense just means removing the bolt from the wedged plug & sleeve.
Sleeved wedge anchors and glue-ins are the only bolts that are truly "chopped" these days.
A sad affair all around, and hope this trend is somehow curtailed.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Nov 13, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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choppers are climbers who can not climb anymore, but have huge ego.
choppers are dicks who want to spray no matter what
choppers are evil and stupid
I do not know any woman who chopped or want to chop.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 14, 2018 - 04:48am PT
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Да!
Правда!
I hope you’re right aeriq! As I’ve said a few times in this, and the fb thread we won’t know what “chopped” means in this context, until someone’s gone up there and looks, and right now there is a madman with guns, guarding it. What you say would seem the most likely scenario, but considering the anger and bile involved I wouldn’t be surprised to find a sledge hammered mess.
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couchmaster
climber
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Nov 14, 2018 - 05:12am PT
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Jay, is there a link where this angry discourse is being flung around for those of us who don't know whats what? I try not to be judgemental on things I don't know about, but it's difficult at times, like now.
Jaybro said:"Um no, there was one more pitch to go to the summit, we were going to go up there this weekend. Then the manifest o arrived. He poached the last pitch. Then chopped it and the rest."
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 14, 2018 - 06:02am PT
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yes, As Couchy says
please spill this whole unpleasant sounding story here
or provide a clear link or set of links that will put out all the particulars.
somebodyanybody,
when 6 people are working on free-ing a route
It was a part of the unspoken, common decency to leave off weaker styled ascents. Allowing time, years if need be for the free team to get it done.
That brutha Jay was Kind and used "poached" was to try to avoid calling sum ph`kR a thief
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 14, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
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Somebdy, Kill Artist, not unfinished symphony
Zardoz, a request like that on the Fb thread might induce her to share the manifesto!
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couchmaster
climber
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Nov 14, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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Can one of you hook Pam up with this Kong Panic quickdraw. Works fantastic.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GUL83D4/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It comes in 2 lengths, the longest must be @ 1 foot or more. It stays in the open position until the hanger touches the back and then WHAM! it closes right up and you're going.
Or in the old days, folks would just tie off a long 1" runner and leave it for the next short folks that were following Kor, Long and the other big dudes.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 14, 2018 - 04:19pm PT
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I have been using stiffend extended 'draws for decades.
The trip-closing 'bienr, is the same,
not always needed but nice,
Using paint stirring sticks, sandwiched togetherOr hollow tubing & tape (shorter black 'draw)
you can make the same thing.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Nov 14, 2018 - 06:23pm PT
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Please tell me Edl is still safely tucked away in a padded cell somewhere and this is not his doing...
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couchmaster
climber
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Nov 15, 2018 - 06:15am PT
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Zardoz, was the "WHY" part of this bolt chopping ever established?
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Nov 15, 2018 - 07:10am PT
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Chop them all - let god sort it out.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 15, 2018 - 07:13am PT
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Working on the “why”....
I don’t seem. To be able to ‘share’ and link the fb post here....
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Nov 15, 2018 - 08:22am PT
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Seems personal!
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A Essex
climber
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Nov 15, 2018 - 09:03am PT
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there's gunna be a hangin...
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Nov 15, 2018 - 09:22am PT
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"Correcting" a route established by someone else is always a mess. It's just that for the lack of anything better to do, a mess is an option, especially when egos and status are involved. Then it gets ugly - fast. Imagined ownership, pride, tattered relationships - these often get hauled up the wall like a string of rusty cans clipped to the haul line. So much for "getting above it all."
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Nov 15, 2018 - 09:37am PT
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The Ryan from the movie?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 15, 2018 - 09:56am PT
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Shiteskees
We all know how super-glue works . . .
apply 2 bolt hangers to shoulders,
Take care to place them nearer to the spine to avoid the dreaded 'Murican triangle...
"Chop This" written in sharpie? that might be a tad to far. . .
It worked on the eastcoastaszhole, who's name shall not be used
dulgudurd
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 15, 2018 - 11:06am PT
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too bad,
there is so much to do out there, if you want to make a statement it would seem that the best way to do it has always been to put up another route, in the style acceptable to you, that is much better than the one you would criticize.
there is no lack of potential lines to make such statements on, and such a better way to advocate for your own style
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 15, 2018 - 11:21am PT
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Keep On Chopping
- R. Krum
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 15, 2018 - 11:38am PT
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Too far apart... largo and ed for the win. (a far aside?, no mind... just making myself laugh.)
Seriously, hope there is some resolution. Shouldn't be hard to find some solace (perspective?) in a big desert, to scratch up some respect for the effort to make it out there. Climbers/climbs at that level, in that fragile an environment, are a rare breed. Why not tread more softly, appreciate the gifts, however fleeting?
Finally, the effort has costs. Seeing the support of La Sportiva more than suggests that the value was there. The extraneous stuff just detracts from it, and more than just the target ends up paying.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Nov 15, 2018 - 01:33pm PT
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I went to Pamela FB to find who chopped the route and found funny comments from the jerk who recently chopped bolt on Maxine wall , posted TR on ST wrote a big shitty poem about his chopping.
Now he is giving advice what to do if your route is chopped:
Jim Hornibrook become household name for chopper who can not climb anymore the route he just chopped.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 15, 2018 - 03:22pm PT
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Doesn’t look that dangerous, does he?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 15, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
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Agreed!
Cheers!
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Jim Clipper
climber
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Nov 15, 2018 - 06:00pm PT
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This probably will get me denied a cup of coffee. Anyone tried to check in on the unabomber? Really, I say that with respect. He must have had some skills to hang with that crowd.
It seems that this could play out on the intardwebs in a way that may feel one sided. No reason to push someone in a corner. Gender politics aren't uncommon in climbing either. Hearing that the chopper once shared a rope sheds some light. No matter how wrong, the party should maybe be listened to. Especially some while after spurting out a rant. From the video, it seems that there once was some respect given.
Finally, I've been younger than I hopefully am these days. Most importantly, I'm not climbed, so maybe consider this advice from a priest/sex therapist. 12+ off width is a very small world. I think that there is more than one here who set standards, heard similar "debates". In the end maybe its the partners who are remembered. The rock and some routes are still there (mostly). New wave? #gointoheighties Hope all parties end up in a good place. No packages please.
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jsj
climber
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Nov 15, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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Regarding the OP: Yeah those bolts were chopped. There are several solid reasons and having climbed the pitch I agree with the decision 100%:
1) The bolts were bad: Ancient 1/4-inchers.
2) They were poorly installed: Studs protruding as far as 1 inch from the rock. Not only were they unreliable, but they created a safety hazard for the climber - the possibity of flaying open your body on the sharp studs in the event of a slip or fall was very real.
3) They were poorly located - on the left wall of a left-side-in OW - perhaps awkward to clip but moreover jamming into one’s back and shoulder when climbing past them.
4) They were completely unnecessary: The pitch is perfectly protected by a #4/#5 Camalot which can be slid up the crack with you through this section. They didn’t really even save you from having to haul a large piece as most climbers would bring these cams on the route even with the bolts.
Perhaps even more so than those long-forgotten chopped bolts on The Good Book, I see no reason why the removal of these should be questioned - that pitch is safer, more enjoyable, more aesthetic... better in every way now.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 15, 2018 - 09:00pm PT
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jsj,
yes all of that was clearly stated.
What is being discussed is the lack of respect,. A seemingly personal attack. It is the insult in the way the actions & the subsequent defensive of the vandalism have occured.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Nov 15, 2018 - 09:52pm PT
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Poor taste Alexy. You don't know he's a jerk or take the time to understand both sides.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Nov 15, 2018 - 10:55pm PT
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I read those and just didn't come to the same conclusions as you. He seemed to me to be straightforward and honest but we all have our opinions.
edit-plus you cited a reference to him trying to help someone, no? Anyway I don't see what he has to do with this thread anyway. No big deal. G'nite:)
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Nov 15, 2018 - 11:01pm PT
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yes he is honest that he have no courage to climb the route after he chopped the bolt
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