2 more die in Yosemite

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SteveW

Trad climber

The state of confusion

Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 25, 2018 - 04:03pm PT

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-die-falling-overlook-yosemite-national-park-174859808.html

McHale's Navy

Trad climber

From Panorama City, CA

Oct 25, 2018 - 04:09pm PT

I recently hiked to the top of Yosemite Falls and was amazed at how unclear it was, in terms of guiding the masses, to proceed to the actual top of the falls. It is very poorly marked. It's amazing more people don't die up there. It's clear the Park Service believes in the survival of the fittest.

snakefoot

climber

Nor Cal

Oct 25, 2018 - 04:37pm PT

Sad for the families and those involved. I suspect fowl play..

climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:08pm PT

Some of the articles are scripted about Taft Point being recently viral as a proposal spot; this incident sounds more like a Lovers’ Leap...

Norton

climber

The Wastelands

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:14pm PT

perhaps a fair chance that they slipped off while doing a selfie, lots of reports of that from high places

climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:20pm PT

True...perhaps

Caveman

climber

Cumberland Plateau

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:22pm PT

"It's clear the Park Service believes in the survival of the fittest."

There should be fences at the top of every precipice. This was actually suggested by a Chattanooga news anchor after a death at one of the crags here. :)

climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:27pm PT

Build the Wall!!

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:38pm PT

The main problem is a relatively flat and short approach trail with no exposure, to instant serious exposure. I suspect that if people have to earn the vista with an arduous approach, they are more mindful and attuned to their physical reality.

edit: I have no idea of the circumstances surrounding the tragedy, and my response both minimized the loss and was disrespectful to the people involved. I should spend more time thinking and empathizing, and less time typing.

couchmaster

climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:57pm PT

With all due respect to the above posters trying to be funny or clever: ^^please don't make light of others pain and loss. ^^ Please. Changing of posts is available......

There needs to be no additional fences and signs. Last time I was up at Yosemite Falls, hot July day, there were folks all over walking past the many obvious "DANGER THERE IS A CLIFF RIGHT BELOW YOU, THE BOTTOM OF THE STREAM IS SLICK WITH ALGAE AND YOU WILL WASH OVER THE CLIFF AND DIE IF YOU GO IN" types of signs one had to nearly trip over to get in the water. Same with Nevada Falls where they do have a rail to keep folks out. Yet the water was both tempting and still full of idiots both locations. They were looking right at the signs while in the water. How would you fence off the whole stream? How could you fence off a whole cliff? Would this fence go from North Dome gully past Washington Column over to El Cap? Would climbers need to register to climb over this fence at the top of Serenity Crack and Royal Arches as they top out to go do Crest Jewel?

I was at a local cliff when SAR came up to train. I was by myself at a lonely spot so I welcomed the company. I asked if they had many call outs recently. "Yup, all the time". Came the shocking response. I hadn't heard about any of this and I'm fairly well connected in the climbing community. "Oh yeah, we just carried a diseased couple out not far from here". I'm thinking WTF? I asked about and it turns out that a couple had parked their car, walked @ 1/4 mile straight out the trail (it was a new trail local folks were putting in without permission) to the top of a waterfall and they jumped off the cliff together. They are pretty sure it was intentional, suicide, he explained to me.

When I go there now and hike the trail, and I do it a lot as it's is now hands down the best loop trail in the area, I reflect on the pain that life can bring us that would cause a young couple to do such a thing. I don't have n answer, but I could hope that things like folks comments above, which they think are flippant and funny, not add to the heavy burden life puts on some of us.

My best wishes to all, and especially to the late family and friends who will no doubt be in extreme pain over this.

skywalker1

Trad climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 06:04pm PT

^^^ Agree. Admittedly I had a close call after climbing Ruper? In Eldo and was chillin on the edge and stood up too fast? caught a shoelace and barely caught my balance. I walked straight into the woods. I won't forget it. And won't pass judgment.

Condolences....

S....

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Oct 25, 2018 - 07:19pm PT

We don't need more guardrails....where do you draw the line? It's a NP which is dedicated to preserve the natural world. Enter at your own risk...a risk probably less than running across a city street to catch a bus.

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Oct 25, 2018 - 08:13pm PT

Trippy.

OnsightOrGoHome

Trad climber

Fair Oaks

Oct 25, 2018 - 08:47pm PT

Some locations should have railing (Glacier Point overlook) and some shouldn't (Half Dome). Each individual national park needs to decide which experience level of patrons they want to provide access to the park's natural features, and to what level of safety is appropriate for those patrons. There will always be those that venture beyond their safety net, no matter the safety features put in place, including climbers.

As I keep a watchful eye on my boys, I let them venture close to their safety net, but I'm sure to reign them back when they're pushing their luck. Most people don't have enough experience in such places to know the dangers present and their limitations to remain safe.

Climbers are only a small segment of the national park's patrons. Luckily, there's always many places beyond the masses to go and get lost if you want to. Considering this, I think I'll go get lost this weekend :).

dirtbag

climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 09:23pm PT

+1 couchmaster

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

ne'er–do–well

Oct 25, 2018 - 10:35pm PT

The theory that they were selfie-ing is pretty far fetched.
Double suicide more likely.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Oct 29, 2018 - 10:42pm PT

Selfie theory might be correct

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-yosemite-taft-point-deaths-20181029-story.html?outputType=amp

]In March, Moorthy posted a photo of herself on Instagram, sitting on a cliff at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon in a shirt that said “Sunset Chaser.” In the caption, she wrote about the dangers of taking dramatic “daredevilry” photos for likes on social media.

“A lot of us including yours truly is a fan of daredevilry attempts of standing at the edge of cliffs and skyscrapers, but did you know that wind gusts can be FATAL???” Moorthy wrote. “Is our life just worth one photo?”

jamatt

Social climber

Asheville, NC

Oct 30, 2018 - 05:02am PT

The Gods dine on irony.

Gunkie

Trad climber

Valles Marineris

Oct 30, 2018 - 05:38am PT

There should be fences at the top of every precipice.

BASE rigs at the top of every precipice.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Mill Valley, Ca

Oct 30, 2018 - 09:09am PT

The theory that they were selfie-ing is pretty far fetched.
Double suicide more likely.

Brother: Indians died in Yosemite fall while taking selfie

Knott surprising at all.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 30, 2018 - 09:45am PT

I dunno - I'm not seeing risk takers in those Instagrams and comments. It could have been as simple as haste to beat the self timer.

kunlun_shan

Mountain climber

SF, CA

Oct 30, 2018 - 12:44pm PT

^^ I guess "risk taking" is a matter of definition.

Below is from one of the people who fell. Red highlight is mine.

Trump

climber

Oct 30, 2018 - 01:09pm PT

That’s too bad. I’m sorry to hear. My condolences to family and friends.

We do what we do, sometimes for reasons that even we don’t understand. If it were a simple choice of our life or a photo, it would be an easier decision for any of us to make. But it’s never that simple for us risk taking climbers, and it’s not that simple for other people either.

Hoping y’all don’t fall.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 30, 2018 - 01:29pm PT

Very sad. Condolences to friends and family.

Taft point is an easily accessible tall cliff with a small guardrail. It's not surprising this is the site of multiple deaths, just as the top of Vernal falls is. i.e. popular, dangerous spots.

I think for the most part the amount of guard rails and signage the NP uses is about correct. However this spot does seem kind of odd. It's a small, old, guardrail with large open spaces on either side. A guard rail probably encourages people to approach the edge at that point, like an attraction. If there was no guard rail people may be more careful about approaching that edge. The open design and minimum coverage of the guard rail doesn't do much to prevent a fall. This isn't to say the NPS had any liability in this case. People need to be responsible for themselves, that's 99%+ of staying safe, I'm just wondering aloud about ways that may help prevent this type of fall in the future. It is an old rail, and not up to any modern standards, but of course the NPS can't go out and update everything in the vast NP spaces in one fell swoop.

One thing I've thought about for the waterfalls is a sign you can update with the number of deaths. Like at factories that have signs that say "X" Days without an Accident. Static signs seem easy to ignore. But if a sign said Number of Deaths 2018 - 3, 2016 -2, Etc. I think people would stop to read it more often and take it more seriously. I think there was or is a sign like that on the Mist trail.

johntp

Trad climber

Little Rock and Loving It

Oct 30, 2018 - 01:33pm PT

Who knows? Yosar and NP are not saying much. Likely we'll never know.

Whatever the reason, it is sad.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 30, 2018 - 01:59pm PT

It is not advisable to venture to the edge unless you are truly focused.

Fixed it for ya.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Oct 30, 2018 - 02:20pm PT

One thing I've thought about for the waterfalls is a sign you can update with the number of deaths. Like at factories that have signs that say "X" Days without an Accident. Static signs seem easy to ignore. But if a sign said Number of Deaths 2018 - 3, 2016 -2, Etc. I think people would stop to read it more often and take it more seriously. I think there was or is a sign like that on the Mist trail.

Like this one at the entrance to the Kern Canyon...

Of course it doesn't say much for my reading comprehension that I very nearly drowned in that river two summers ago. It was close, I still get the heebie jeebie's thinking about it. Talk about underestimating what I was getting into.

Cragar

climber

MSLA - MT

Oct 30, 2018 - 02:34pm PT

Hey Kris, were you climbing on river boulders, swimming or what? In late winter months the Kern is fun to explore!

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Oct 30, 2018 - 02:58pm PT

Midsummer. Swimming. If you take the old road which stays on the south side of the river where the new road crosses and turns to 4 lane, there's one place where the road drops down to the river. There's a campground there, and a take-out for paddlers. It's several hundred feet of flat water with rapids in and out. I got in at the top and tried to reach a big boulder out in the middle. The water was soon over my head, moving fast, and churning in such a way that I could barely stay on top. I hauled my ass out about 20 feet before the rapids at the bottom end. I was so blasted I couldn't sit up.

An out of shape person wouldn't have had a chance. I guess the signs are there for a reason.

I found out later that they were releasing water from the dam.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

ne'er–do–well

Oct 30, 2018 - 09:58pm PT

She also blogged about depression. In a post from April, Moorthy apologized to readers for going silent and "disappearing for more than a year." ..."Between battling the tightening tentacles of depression

Very sad either way - Hopefully it was just an accident, if that even matters now.