Camper vans versus travel trailers...which is for you?

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Messages 1 - 236 of total 236 in this topic

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 24, 2018 - 06:56am PT

What do you call a fully built out Mercedes Sprinter with a young couple? Answer...Trustifarivan. Seems like Sprinters are all the rage and their are a lot of other campers out there from jury rigged vans and pickups on up to Sportmobiies.
About ten years ago my wife and I bought a used Sportsmobile fot ten grand and we have gotten a ton of use from it...95,000 miiles and counting.
Last spring we bought are first new car in thirteen years a Toyota Four Runner. We got to thinking....how about getting a small travel trailer to go with it. The Sportsmobile was showing it’s age and we liked the idea of having a trailer at a campsite AND a vehicle to travel from the campsite to destinations. Areas like Indian Creek and the City of Rocks are not set up for walking to climbing areas from a central campsite. So we just bought a cool little travel trailer... aT@B 400. Now we will be able to have a central campsite and a vehicle (the Four Runner) that will take us just about anywhere. Seems to me like more versatility and the total cost was considerably less than what most built out Sprinters cost.
Two different concepts...we tried one for ten years, looking forward to the other. Which way do you go?

HermitMaster

Social climber

my abode

Oct 24, 2018 - 07:05am PT

You'll appreciate the freedom a trailer gives you. Then you don't have to worry about anything other than who is breaking into it while you are gone.

johnr9q

Sport climber

Sacramento, Ca

Oct 24, 2018 - 07:29am PT

Why didn't you drive the Sportsmobile from the campsite to the climbing site? That's what I do.

ealderson

Social climber

Hadley MA

Oct 24, 2018 - 07:30am PT

Have had camper vans and slide-in truck campers. A few summers ago we switched to a T@b 320 and love being able to drop the home and still be able to drive around. I love the T@b 400, congratulations on a super cool rig!

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 07:33am PT

When I have the sportsmobile set up it’s a pain to de rig it...plus the four runner will go places no camper van will. I just feel the trailer gives me more versatility...time will tell.

hooblie

climber

from out where the anecdotes roam

Oct 24, 2018 - 07:41am PT

it's that folks with tall vans
aren't limited to rockin' side to side any more.

so everybody says we're way ahead of the crowd
... in our shiny sphere

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Oct 24, 2018 - 07:43am PT

Hey, Jim:

We've gone both ways but currently using an R-Pod trailer. Gas mileage sucks, but it is nice to have it rigged and parked. The main drawback is pretty obvious--lots of places you can't get to, so exploring remote dirt roads, et al., is too sketchy. For established areas with known parking/driving conditions, it's great! An added and unexpected benefit is that it's easier to level than a van.

Enjoy and post pics. We'll be at City o' Rocks next year with our trailer. This year, it needed a new axle and wasn't ready in time, so we dirtbagged it.

BAd

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Oct 24, 2018 - 07:57am PT

Nice Jim, looks pretty efficient, perfect fit.

Why didn't you drive the Sportsmobile from the campsite to the climbing site?

That works at places like JT. Some of the best climbing at IC is on roads that a van or sprinter can not easily drive on. You see a lot of vans parked at the main road, you are limited on access.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:10am PT

Van + motorcycle strapped to the back.

Everything has its trade-offs, depends where you go the most and what you do there.

tradryan

Big Wall climber

San Diego

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:11am PT

Hard to beat having a 4x4 with a detachable trailer for access to rough places and having a daily driver that's not "built out". We LOVE our Casita 17' deluxe (we'd probably just tent camp but with young kids it's much nicer to have a corral). My opinion is Casita easily compares to Airstream at literally 1/3 of the cost.

Don Paul

Social climber

Washington DC

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:13am PT

Mid 90s 4wd chevy blazer will expand your horizons to dirt roads those giant vehicles can't navigate and cost next to nothing. You want an old vehicle for those roads because it will get beaten up. My Jeep Wrangler was a wimp compared to the blazer - looks like it comes from the suburbs but the best 4wd living space imo.

ionlyski

Trad climber

Polebridge, Montana

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:16am PT

About ten years ago my wife and I bought a used Sportsmobile for ten grand

uh Jim, seems like 10 years ago you'd had that van for at least 10 years already. Remember, time moves a lot slower for your reptilian species:)

Arne

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 08:27am PT

Arne...it has cost us $1,000 a year for the Sportsmobile. New ones are over $100, 000. A thousand a year would take over 100 years...looks like we did okay.

Russ Walling

Social climber

from Poofters Froth, Wyoming

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:39am PT

Did the same thing... started in a van, then got a slide in camper, then got a travel trailer. Best thing evah! Nothing feels as good as not having to pack up all your sh#t to drive two miles. The mega basecamp system is sweet after cragging.

ionlyski

Trad climber

Polebridge, Montana

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:39am PT

You have done very well with it Jim. I know I've had some good times hanging, drinking a little red and listening to your opera playlist on the little stereo. Good times!

Arne

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:44am PT

Jim - same here. After having outfitted trucks with canopies/shells for the past 20 years, we finally bought a Jayco 19' Baja Edition. We pull it with a built 2012 Tundra.

Nice to be able to stand up, cook in a shelter and sleeping on a real bed is not too bad. Being able to drop the trailer wherever and take off down rough roads to access great areas with little to no crowds is nice too.

We are happy with the set up.

WBraun

climber

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:54am PT

Just see the extreme opulence of America all while being at the mercy of the worlds poor to provide it .....

Jim Clipper

climber

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:16am PT

nice rigs all! this may be the best i got...

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:19am PT

yer legally limited to 55 mph while towing.

Legally? When did that stop anyone? You see more at 55 though plus it ain’t as stressful,
‘cept for all the as#@&%es passing you, huh?

Contractor

Boulder climber

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:22am PT

My neighbor has a 16 foot Casita. It's very nice, super light and made to be towed with V6 motors. They're self contained, good clearance and made with marine grade parts. I plan on having one someday to coax my wife out.

There is a used Casita site I believe.

https://casitatraveltrailers.com/

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:23am PT

Well Jim, yopu made your decision. personally I just don't like towing. you always have to think about where to park, how to get turned around and how to get out of where you got into...

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 09:24am PT

Our new trailer is only 15 ft. and 2,690 pounds so towing shouldn’t be a real problem. We pick it up on 11/9...pictures to follow.
Like I said, two different concepts. We tried one, now the other.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:41am PT

After many different travel vehicles and hundreds of thousands of miles driven I went with a trailer. There are a lot of drawbacks, but in the large picture, it is great.

ddriver

Trad climber

SLC, UT

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:43am PT

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:45am PT

Definitely trade offs for each approach. Of course if we were rich we could buy one of each.

55 mph is the law, but travel in the right lane with the big rigs and it's almost always 59 mph. You can feel the wind resistance, mpg, and handling really drop after that, so it's a safe, efficient speed. On faster speed limit roads you can generally go up near the regular speed limit without getting pulled over but you're pushing your rig.

So in a van you could get places faster. You could drive a moderately rough road in a van that you wouldn't want to take a trailer down (on a dusty road the trailer gets covered). You can park in a single car spot. You'll get better mpg. You could change your plans and drive on through without having to go back and get a trailer.

In a trailer you have 2 vehicles in 1. The tow rig is still decent as a daily driver. You can unhook and go on rougher roads. Worse mpg with the trailer, but better without. The trailer has more space and amenities, the older I get the more I appreciate the comfort. Less converting bed space to couch space, etc. You can have a real 2 person bed (that can seal the deal right there). It fits 2 people comfortably for long periods of time, or convert the dinette and sleep 2 more if needed. It's nice to have a 4 person dinette to sit at in the evening with guests and eat dinner, play cards, etc. You need to look for two parking spots in a row, so you end up parking farther away.

A van would be good for weekend warriors or a young single person. A trailer would be good for a couple that can spend extended time at each location.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:46am PT

Nice Fixer

https://palmsprings.craigslist.org/rvs/d/rare-vintage-boler-like-scamp/6730228102.html

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 09:48am PT

Been there Jeremy...your time will come.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:50am PT

This...

Fuso 4x4 gets 15 mpg.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:02am PT

I don't know where you'd bring this w/o it tipping over.

I'd do it for the porch swing, though.

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:04am PT

Trailer.

Trad climber

Calgary

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:05am PT

I was heading down south on the I 15 one spring and encountered a Saskatchewan farmer going back home after a winter in Baja.
His main vehicle was a converted grain truck made into an RV with bikes and kayaks on a back deck. This "mothership" was towing a small Toyota truck with camper, the "space shuttle"
Has anyone converted a utility trailer into a travel trailer? It seems that with a window cut into the side, some basic plumbing and a bed a person could have a comfortable cheap unit.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:08am PT

Ca. is one of the only states that has a 55mph limit on trailers. In most states, it is 5 mph below max post speed. Many states have no limit at all.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 10:10am PT

I have yet to see much compliance with posted speed limits in California...regardless the type of vehicle.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:17am PT

Many states have no limit at all.

Just drive yer IQ and you’ll be fine.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 10:24am PT

Damn Reilly...bummer, I’ve always wanted to hit triple digits. Oh well...maybe in my next life.

splitclimber

climber

Sonoma County

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:25am PT

I don't like towing and we get out in the winter a lot where I'd be sketched out to tow a trailer in snow. We have been happy with slide-in pop-up campers.

It's nice to drive the truck camper to a off-road climbing spot and not have to move, but sometimes we find ourselves having to breakdown each morning to drive a bit to a climbing spot or backcountry trailhead.

It is really a trade-off. Would be awesome to have both options some day.

hooblie

climber

from out where the anecdotes roam

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:26am PT

easily deployed. lately, i haven't left home without itbut party f'ing over in the ice and snow

Don Paul

Social climber

Washington DC

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:58am PT

Werner I agree those monster RVs are gross. If the point is to be outdoors then the less you bring, the better.

Gunkie

Trad climber

Valles Marineris

Oct 24, 2018 - 11:16am PT

I just stopped at the 4Runner stage. Sleep and carry everything I need in it. But, I'm young (ish), dumb (est), and full of benadryl to sleep in it.

I loved that stage. Never needed Benadryl to sleep. I loved driving to work on a Friday morning all packed up for the weekend in the Gunks when you could still park on the Warwarsing Turnpike overnight. I'd get up there and have a beer or two with other like-minded climbers who were camping. That was also BITD when Skytop was open to climbing. Would bike out there and climb all day. Or bike out to Millbrook. Good times!

My 1988 4runner BITD.

DonC

climber

Oct 24, 2018 - 11:55am PT

I have a 4Wheel Camper slide-in on a 4x4 Toyota. I like to explore areas like Death Valley and want the option of camping wherever I am at the end of the day. I don't want to leave a trailer somewhere, which may not even be in the direction I continue the next day. My camping is very simple, the only thing typically outside the camper is a chair, so it takes just a few minutes to lower the top and go.

phylp

Trad climber

Upland, CA

Oct 24, 2018 - 12:46pm PT

Congratulations, Jim and Angela!
Of course there is a bit more set up time when you’re towing, but for longer road trips, which you fo, it’s a great choice.
The only consistent complaint I’ve ever heard about them is that they tend to get more flats. For reasons I don’t understand, they always come with those wierd dinky tires. So perhaps just be prepared for that.
Phyl

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Oct 24, 2018 - 01:02pm PT

Pop top camper on a 4x4.

The only problem is going from cab to camper in mud or snow.

I camped in places where nothing else would go.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 24, 2018 - 01:10pm PT

I also had a 1988 or so 4Runner when I was young. A memory that sticks out, my girlfriend (future wife) picked me up at the airport. My dog waited in the airport parking lot in the back on the bed of blankets. We found a spot to park for the night and crawled in back. Hmm, what's that smell? Oh, dog poop buried in the blankets. We were young and broke and still sprung for a hotel room that night.

skywalker1

Trad climber

Oct 24, 2018 - 01:28pm PT

I'm gonna be negative here. I used to have a Chevy Astro cargo, bare steel that I decked out. Single with a dog. So I get it. But now we (my family) camp when we go camping. My daughter sleeps in her own tent, my wife and I sleep in our tent. Comfortize it anyway you like. But any time we go with friends that bring their trailer there are issues. Limits our place to find a site. It becomes their house and its no longer a camping trip.

Further I can't stand trying to get up the mountain, or down for that matter, when someone feels they need to trailer there house behind them and can only go 35mph. You don't need it. Its not camping. Just get a motel.

Jim I know you are as self sufficient as anyone and I guess you earned the camper tow-behind thing.

But good luck with it I just feel that folks are too caught up in their rigs and lose the whole idea of just throwing it down in the dirt. And god forbid sleep under the stars without the tent.

Edit: Hope I wasn’t too negative...::-)

S.....

norm larson

climber

wilson, wyoming

Oct 24, 2018 - 01:50pm PT

Had the pickup truck camper and mostly liked it but seemed like I always needed something from the back or the front.
We've had a Chevy Express AWD van now for the last 6 years. Liking it a lot. Everything is right there. No pop top so it's not that tall but then we aren't either. But we don't have to mess with a poptop when it's time to move.The AWD drive is excellent in snow and does OK for getting to places that aren't super gnarly 4WD. We like to cook outside but if the weather is crap we can cook in. Live in grizzly bear country so we feel better not cooking inside.
Personally I don't like towing a trailer and then there is the issue of things being somewhere else all the time. But whatever. I've spent some time in some friends R Pod and it was sweet once setup.
All depends how much you are moving and where you want to camp and how long the trip is. I like the van for the away from home type trip where you might be moving each night or every couple of days like the Eastside. Or driving to a trailhead for a backcountry climbing trip and want to stay the night before and maybe after.
I'm sure you'll make the best of the new trailer and now you'll know which is better for you. Safe travels.

Skywalker you are right on. Sometimes the dirt under the stars is the best place to be.

Alois

Trad climber

Idyllwild, California

Oct 24, 2018 - 02:16pm PT

I really like our Northstar pop-up. After spending some 40+ years in a tent, upon retirement, we decided to get something we could get away with for months, not days.

The Northstar sits on 4x4 F-150. Great combo that allows us to load up for long trips. The last 4 years we spent three months+ every summer in it.

There are other pop-ups on the market but none have the space for climbing gear, ice gear etc. The Northstar has the space.

I had this set up in places where I would never drive my car. It has 30 gallon water tank, solar panel, queen size bed and for the two of us, is perfect.

We can get lost in the backcountry for about three weeks without running out of water. This works for us.

But there are many set ups that work.

Jim, I hope you can continue to enjoy the fab outdoors that we are so lucky to still be able to see and use. Cheers, Alois.

Trad climber

Calgary

Oct 24, 2018 - 02:27pm PT

Sleeping in tents is fine.
What you really need in bad weather is a good kitchen and hang out area so a basic van works fine for all but real 4x4 country

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Oct 24, 2018 - 02:37pm PT

We wanted a popup cab over for years....I built my rig to get us out to just about anywhere with 35's and winch all while dreaming of a popup.

Then the time came to finally buy a popup and I did the math on my Tundra's load carrying limits. LOL with the heavy duty bumpers, winch, coilovers, large spare tire, etc....I could not have a pop up. So we went trailer.

*You'll notice that the guys with the popup rigs have basically stock trucks. -that's not my thing.

I do miss being able to stealth camp but I figure in a pinch I can slide under my tonneau cover. I still sleep in a tent often. In fact more often than my trailer.

Dig it!

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 24, 2018 - 02:49pm PT

Further I can't stand trying to get up the mountain, or down for that matter, when someone feels they can only go 65.

There, fixed it for ya. I really hate it when I’m trying to get up the mountain towing my trailer
and some self-righteous tree hugger in their Prius won’t move the phuk over.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Oct 24, 2018 - 02:49pm PT

These are good.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 02:55pm PT

Skywalker1 I’m sure I’ve thrown down on the dirt more than 99% of my fellow Americans...just got back from Pakistan where I did 38 consecutive days doing just that. I just don’t care to do that anymore in car camping situatiins anymore. The same is true with hiking, I’ve hiked many thousands of miles but if there is a road I prefer to drive.
You don’t have to worry about being behind me going 35 mph up a hill...ask anyone who has ever ridden with me about that.

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Oct 24, 2018 - 03:03pm PT

To use the trailer, you have to have a place to leave it - generally a good campsite. Joshua tree is a good example.
With a van, you don't need an official campsite. You can camp many more places since you're not going to leave anything setup - like the backcountry boards or BLM lands.

Northstar is one of the heavier popups.
Four Wheel is the lightest.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Oct 24, 2018 - 03:19pm PT

You don’t have to worry about being behind me going 35 mph up a hill...

You planning a "Paradox Triple" with trailer in tow? :)

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Oct 24, 2018 - 03:21pm PT

My Four Wheel had cheesy construction, fell apart.

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Oct 24, 2018 - 03:42pm PT

"Truck camper would be the best if you could easily detach it. I'm not sure why somebody haven't figure it out yet."

Any light truck camper with four jack legs is removable. Just detach the tiedowns on level ground, CAREFULLY jack the legs down, and drive out from under it.
I guess you have to line it up very closely to reverse this and reinstall - is +/- 2 inches good enough and then it self centers the rest of the way?

Some only remove it at home where they have a dolly rig. - which could be helped if the truck has air jacks or big enough tires and you could air it down a few inches.

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Oct 24, 2018 - 03:52pm PT

"self-righteous tree hugger in their Prius won’t move the phuk over."

What a crock of faux bs put out by alt-righteous loons.

Everyone I know with a Prius drives above average speed. They get 40mpg at 85mph. They do slow down some on big hills when fully loaded. However they are still faster than an 80's Fourrunner & many other rigs.
Have you never driven to Yosemite? You will be stuck behind RV's & campers.
In other places you will be stuck behind 40 year old pickup trucks.
But your biased brain only remembers the time it was a prius.

Alois

Trad climber

Idyllwild, California

Oct 24, 2018 - 03:54pm PT

Splater Re The weight of pop-ups, you are correct. The Northstar is about 250 lbs (maybe more) heavier than the Four Wheel camper of similar size.

BUT

Try to load Four Wheel with rock and ice gear for a summer in Canada backcountry (for ex.).

There is no room for climbing gear or dry food for backpacking or enough water capacity. The Four Wheel is great for weekend and short trips because it is light and will fit over Tacoma or other light trucks. If you don't need gear, they are great. One pays with lack of space and with the Northstar with the extra weight. Just depends what one needs. In all cases, there are compromises to be made...Speed is not one of them. You can go 70 all the way on a highway.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 24, 2018 - 03:56pm PT

Splater, have you always been ‘easy’? BwaHaHa!

Is the reading comprehension level here even 8th grade?

Splater

climber

Grey Matter

Oct 24, 2018 - 04:06pm PT

Reilly, When you are half trolling, the other half is still propagating alt-right propaganda.
You should be grateful for every Prius; they are saving the supply for gas hogs.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 24, 2018 - 04:33pm PT

If you have a camper you can always leave it at home and throw down on the dirt. I did it a few weeks ago in my trusty bivy sack, while getting 45 MPG in our Prius for a weekend trip with a lot of driving. Makes up for when I drive the Super Duty, Crew Cab, Long Bed, Diesel, 4x4 with a camper, lol. Speaking of car camping: get a 3.5" plus thick thermarest style pad from REI or Big Johnson, I can actually get a good nights sleep on one of those.

I guess you have to line it up very closely to reverse this and reinstall - is +/- 2 inches good enough and then it self centers the rest of the way?

No it sits where you drop it. Mine has tight clearance between the camper and sides of the tailgate; I only have about +/- 1/2" play. The first time I lined it up took 1 hour (figured out where it needs to be to be centered). Then 30 minutes (figured out what parts of the truck and camper to look at and line up so it's centered). Now I can do it in 5 minutes. I've only taken it off once while camping. Not really worth it. I have electric jacks (I had manual jacks on my rig in the late 90s, it takes way longer). So: Unscrew the tie downs, disconnect the electric hook up, jack it up, drive out, lower it down. Takes maybe 15-20 minutes each time. I also like having the kitchen and bathroom with me at all times. e.g. go to the crag during the day and have your food/beer cold in the fridge, and a bathroom/sink handy.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 04:58pm PT

Paradox Valley for triples...remote, straight, slightly downhill road with good visibility and no cops. Got my Subaru Outback to clock 126 mph there when it was new.
Four Runner with a T@B 400 trailer...who knows?

At least no cops yet.

Aeriq

Social climber

Location: It's a MisterE

Oct 24, 2018 - 05:36pm PT

Drop & Go is great except for site fees/risk AND the states you travel through - the "55 with trailers" rule "can" set one back seriously time-wise, depending on schedule and distance.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Oct 24, 2018 - 05:42pm PT

You would never know there was a 55 mph limit on trailers by the way people drive in CA. But I did get a ticket for doing 65 pulling an 8 foot cargo trailer, go figure.

skywalker1

Trad climber

Oct 24, 2018 - 06:17pm PT

Jim, my intentions weren't to put down your decision. By posting I was just stating my observation that camping and climbing has become a rig thing. I just find that I pull up to the crags now and its not camping. When I try to hook up with some friends they have to bring their camper and its an issue. We have to find a place that accommodates their trailer. etc.

In no way was I trying to disrespect you. We all know of your exploits.

S...

ms55401

Trad climber

minneapolis, mn

Oct 24, 2018 - 06:19pm PT

if that were an objective of mine, I'd go Tacoma or similar with smallish Airstream thingy in tow

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 24, 2018 - 06:25pm PT

The only consistent complaint I’ve ever heard about them is that they tend to get more flats.

The thing is the stock tires on these rigs tend to be bottom quality and/or bias ply with very low specs for temperature, speed, load, etc. They’re cheap to upgrade.

The other thing I’ve seen is people tend to ignore the wheel bearings - so they dry out, overheat and fail.

Both fail a lot sooner if overloaded, which seems common.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2018 - 06:43pm PT

No disrespect felt at all Skywalker. Just letting everyone know that I’m not one of those oblivious dudes pulling a trailer or driving a motor home way under the speed limit while blithely ignoring slow traffic pullouts. The drive to Wawona comes to mind.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber

moving thru

Oct 24, 2018 - 08:16pm PT

Don't think I have a pic of my rig on this new computer. I have a 2006 Chevy Express Van that has served me well. It's not built out, I carry my gear in the back so if anyone calls I'm ready to rock the outdoors.

The kayaks go on top or inside as well as paddleboard. For me simple is best. The less mechanics the less there is to break and fix. It's been a friend to me for the past 10 years.

Jim and Angela, you guys are awesome and think things out. I think you two will rock in your new rig!

Cheers, lynnie

hooblie

climber

from out where the anecdotes roam

Oct 24, 2018 - 09:25pm PT

there was a period of time in my climbing career when the last dozen or so miles to the trail head was made up primarily of climax level washboard and no manly vehicle could negotiate it as well as the late sixties, gas guzzling gunboat my partner inherited from his republican parents. replacement of the blown shocks was not even consideration, so swell was the ride. if you're listening jim, as i recall ... it had a hitch!

i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber

da ow

Oct 24, 2018 - 10:32pm PT

i went with a yuburvan. i had a 5k budget but needed 4x4 and something for month long solo winter trips.

maldaly

Trad climber

Boulder, CO

Oct 25, 2018 - 12:19am PT

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:27am PT

TWP's Dream Rig

1985 Ford, F-250 Supercab, 1-ton chassis, 6.9 liter diesel, purchased by TWP new in 1985

aka "The Wildebeest"

2005 Lance Camper 915

aka "La Tortuga"

Shown on location: Hackberry Wall, NW Arizona, Nov. 2017, doing double duty as a laundromat.

Rig gets an honest 10 mpg at 65 mph.

Eat your hearts out Sprinterafarians. And Donini with his tow-along toy trailer has gone all Euro-sissy on us. Just sayin' IMHO

Gunkie

Trad climber

Valles Marineris

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:28am PT

I think as both a climber and a surfer who surfs winters in the northeast (US) a van with a little buddy propane heater and a vinyl water tight floor is quite appealing. However, the climber side likes the base camp concept of leaving a comfy camp trailer and driving to different trail heads/climbing access spots/town.

My Prius V will have to be my wind break when changing out of a 6mm hooded wetsuit after getting out of 35 degree (F) water and standing in 20 mph off-shore winds in 20 degree (F) air. 6.5 years into this car and it's great. I always keep my cars for 10+ years. So only dreaming for at least the next 3.5 years.

Tom Patterson

Trad climber

Seattle

Oct 25, 2018 - 06:58am PT

donini - your thread highlights what my wife and I recently decided to do, too. I actually love sleeping in the stars on dirt, and always have. But my wife and I camp every month, and she's not as stoked about throwin' down in the dirt. Also, when we're on a trip and there's climbing involved, the trailer makes it so that she can stay in camp, and I can take the truck to the crags. We've had VW Westys (which we still love) for 30+ years, and that was always the issue: you have to do a certain amount of breaking down camp, and then driving your camp with you.

So the solution we came up with was to have a teardrop trailer made to our specs. Best decision ever. We prefer to be outside when we're camping, so the fact that this little thing is really for sleeping only makes that perfect for us. We live in Seattle, so a lot of the local camping has high likelihood of rain. We've got awnings for the sides, and a shelter we can put up to cover the rear galley/cooking area.

Here are a few pics:

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2018 - 06:59am PT

TWP is correct, I have gone Euro sissie with my Toy Trailer purchase. Seems like it happens once in nearly everyone’s lifetime. I feel proud to have resisted for so long. Most of my contemporaries fell to the syndrome in the 80’s when they donned bright neon, multi colored tights. I resisted that tragic trend with a vengeance.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 25, 2018 - 09:32am PT

Whatever camper you have solar panels are great. Run the heater all night then the suns comes up and charges the battery in 2 hours. About $500 for panels, $500 for install or do it yourself. Way batter than an annoying generator that has to be maintained and fueled up.

Da-Veed

Big Wall climber

Bigfork

Oct 25, 2018 - 09:38am PT

Used to have the van when I was solo stealth camping in National Parks. Perfect for myself and gear. Low key.
Then the girl shows up in my life, now it is all about comfort and having a pad to go home to at the end of the day. Food, campfire, dog, and of course wife.
This is our current set up!

Love it, especially for places like City of Rocks.

couchmaster

climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 09:53am PT

I'm staying tuned into this discussion. I'm still fine dirtbagging as you can buy a prime time tent for under $200, but my wife is adamant that we will be getting something. We'll see. I love tents, maybe 'cause as a lad we lived in one for a while....the wife calls that being homeless, but we were never homeless, we simply had a canvas walled home (this was before nylon became a thing) that we had to move periodically.

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Oct 25, 2018 - 10:19am PT

Some key questions for trailer vs truck w/ camper shell vs van:

1. Do you want to be able to pull over on the side of the highway or a dirt road en route to your destination and have a quick no-hassles and comfortable bivy?

2. Do you care about having to step outside if it's raining?

3. Do you set up base camps and explore by vehicle around a radius, or do you move in bigger loops, or just shorter weekend trips with no time to really settle in?

For me, nothing beats the comfort of stopping the vehicle and crawling in the back to a bed with a blanket when you're tired after a long drive. I paid my dues setting up tents after midnight on USFS roads with the kids sleeping in the back of the car. Then I trained them to just sleep on a tarp under the stars, and we've had to beat a hasty retreat when a pissed off land owner made it clear we weren't on BLM land. And digging out the Prius buried in sand up to the axles in various places. Most of the time I sleep in the vehicle will be when arriving somewhere late and departing early in the morning, no real moving in process at a base camp. This is the perfect scenario for a van.

But sometimes there is a base camp, and vans work great for that too! Much of the time can just move camp chairs around the van to chase the shade too- awning is not a critical need for me so far (but I haven't spend days languishing in the desert).

Don Paul

Social climber

Washington DC

Oct 25, 2018 - 11:26am PT

Honestly if I had to choose between sleeping in a $100k RV at KOA, versus the Walmart parking lot in my blazer, I think the Walmart would be more interesting. I had to laugh at the comment about digging out of the sand, I've been there too. The worst is the red dirt in Utah that turns into a slippery paste in the rain.

hooblie

climber

from out where the anecdotes roam

Oct 25, 2018 - 11:36am PT

campgrounds?

JC Marin

Trad climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 11:37am PT

Taxa Trailers look super cool and well designed
Hope to add one in the next year or so

https://taxaoutdoors.com/

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Oct 25, 2018 - 01:40pm PT

^Nice!

norm larson

climber

wilson, wyoming

Oct 25, 2018 - 02:14pm PT

Next thing you know Jim you are going to have one of those one piece overall type suits that the RV guys wear.

Off to the City of Rocks right now. With the van.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 25, 2018 - 03:24pm PT

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 25, 2018 - 04:08pm PT

A pickup camper would solve the above problems, if I could easily (under 15min) detach it from the car. But, the wife demands it must sleep four, have a shower, and be overall comfortable, which is rather impossible to have in this kind of a camper. I could negotiate with her, if I’m convinced that a pickup camper is the best solution.

I have a 9.5 ft pickup camper. It has a north south bed in the cabover that's plush. The dinette converts to a bed that supposedly sleeps 2, but it's tight. For kids two is fine. My kids are 9 and 17 and if we're in the same spot for more than 1 night we'll setup a tent for the 17 year old, so we're not feeling squeezed in. It's super comfortable, has a shower, but there's not much floor space in a truck camper. So if 1 person is cooking, 1 other person could get around them, maybe help cook, but that's it, everyone else needs to be sitting at the dinette, in the bed, or outside. It can get hectic. A trailer typically has more space to move around and get away from each other.

Last year I did a 3 week+ road trip to 10 national parks with my 2 boys. It was awesome. The truck camper was perfect for that. 3 people is a great fit. Able to drive faster on long stretches of straight highway. Able to go off road for free camping spots. Pull into a walmart parking lot when I got tired during long drives. Easy to find places to park.

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Oct 25, 2018 - 04:48pm PT

Moose wrote:

"A pickup camper would solve the above problems, if I could easily (under 15min) detach it from the car. But, the wife demands it must sleep four, have a shower, and be overall comfortable, which is rather impossible to have in this kind of a camper. I could negotiate with her, if I’m convinced that a pickup camper is the best solution."

Hey Moosebreath! You just described by Wildebeest con Tortuga combo!

Point by point I will demonstrate:

1. easily detach in under 15 minutes.

Yes, my Lance has electric-powered jacks, operated with a TV-like remote device. I have solar panels so I always have enough power to take the camper on and off. Can do so about as easily as unhooking a trailer. And who is going to steal a marooned tortuga from a campsite?

2. sleeps 4

My camper has a deluxe queen size bed for mom and pop and two fold-down bunks for the kids, located in the kitchenette area.

3. hot shower

I have a 5-gallon hot water heater and not one, but two showers. One inside with the head and the other outside (which I prefer for its abundance of room to maneuver).

4. be overall comfortable

Moose, you've been in my Land Yacht. You know it's comfortable! Bigger inside than those Polish flats the Commies gave entire multi-generation families back in the day! Come on; man up you gone-so-soft nuevo Americano!

5. "I could negotiate with her, if I was convinced"

Comrade, who wears the pants in your family?

QED.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 25, 2018 - 04:49pm PT

If you want space in a pickup camper you need a Host. They make 9.5s, 10.5s, and then their Mammoth and Everest models. For the latter you can get by with an F350 but I would sleep, or at least drive, better knowing I have an F450.

https://www.hostcampers.com/

Hard to believe that’s a pickup camper, huh?

ManMountain

Mountain climber

San Diego

Oct 25, 2018 - 05:06pm PT

2002 2-door TJ Wrangler moderate build (big tires, underbody armor, discos, tranny cooler, etc.) here. Packed to the gills with lightweight tent camping gear, a 12v Dometic cooler, 5 gals of water in bladders, mission critical spares).

It sucks. 15mpg highway, takes 2 hours to set up or break camp, no top so rain is a problem, etc. Spent the last three months travelling the western US. The "feature" is I can 4 wheel into the most godforsaken places you clowns with trailers/campers/vans will never see, unless you're walking.

Fritz

Social climber

Choss Creek, ID

Oct 25, 2018 - 07:30pm PT

Donini (& Angela)! My congrats! It sounds like a well-thought out decision for you folks.

I can certainly agree on the 4-Runner part, since they have been my SUV of choice since the mid-1980's.

Heidi & I are still working on that transition from tent-camping to inside camping-luxury, but the decided lean is towards a trailer.

She insists on inside flush-toilet & shower. In my dotage, I am excited about avoiding biting insects, & having a warm spot to sit when it gets dark.

We have noted we can stay in motels for the next decade or so, for what any rig that meets our needs, sells for, but of course that does not work for many of my back-country adventure.

I'm still happy with sleeping in the back of the 4-Runner on solo trips, but it really does not sleep the two of us well.

The search continues.

Batrock

Trad climber

Burbank

Oct 25, 2018 - 07:38pm PT

I recently bought a teardrop trailer. I like the option of leaving it at camp and taking the jeep and going exploring. It would be nice to have a Sprinter or larger trailer that you can cook in but this has been a good compromise.

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Oct 25, 2018 - 07:52pm PT

Moose:

Here's your camper. Generally like mine, but nicer, fancier, newer.

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2007-Host-RAINIER-9.5-RAINIER-5003373009

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 25, 2018 - 08:03pm PT

The "feature" is I can 4 wheel into the most godforsaken places you clowns with trailers/campers/vans will never see, unless you're walking.

I nipped that calling some number of years ago with a motorcycle - strapped to the back of my van. With a modicum of training and practice, I’m king of the OHV for access and speed. Years and years going deep into the west.

I’m so over it. What I found is that any overweight fool can buy a truck and a tank of gas - and they do - and those remote far off places thus turn out to be not so remote - and they’re often trashed and far from pristine.

If you want see the wild, you’re not going to be driving to it. The fitter and more capable you are as a trail runner or backpacker - the more you’ll really get to see.

So - to this thread - the 4x4 thing is the most over rated (and expensive!) feature you can buy into for campers, IMO.

WBraun

climber

Oct 25, 2018 - 08:10pm PT

If you want see the wild, you’re not going to be driving to it. The fitter and more capable you are as a trail runner or backpacker - the more you’ll really get to see.

Such bullsh!t.

You can see it from anywhere just sitting in your own home if done right .....

Batrock

Trad climber

Burbank

Oct 25, 2018 - 08:15pm PT

JLP,
A 4x4 is by no means needed but the places I climb in the desert are remote and nobody in their right mind would attempt to backpack in. They have their place and I have enjoyed being able to access places that are pristine and not overrun by the masses because you need a 4x4.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 25, 2018 - 08:37pm PT

I don’t have 100 towers, maybe in the 60-75 spectrum, a true 4x4 truck for access is rare. A Honda Civic will get you to anything in Island in the Sky, for example, quite a concentration of the of the best. Might want one for Cleopatra’s and a few others in the Maze - rent a jeep for a couple days out of Moab.

What’s funny is I’ve talked to so many out there - they say it’s so wild and remote sitting there on some torn up washed out mining road - no idea.

Access to a 4x4 has a place, but not as a feature of your camper, IMO, cost goes through the roof and you’re usually losing a lot of space and comfort compared to more highway bound options.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Oct 25, 2018 - 09:43pm PT

No hot showers, but . . .

https://www.gofundme.com/motohome

[Click to View YouTube Video]

[Click to View YouTube Video]

[Click to View YouTube Video]

i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber

da ow

Oct 25, 2018 - 11:35pm PT

Access to a 4x4 has a place, but not as a feature of your camper, IMO, cost goes through the roof and you’re usually losing a lot of space and comfort compared to more highway bound options.

If skiing is required as well as climbing that changes things dramatically.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 26, 2018 - 03:38am PT

Terry, do you have your camper in chili?

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 26, 2018 - 05:20am PT

If skiing is required

A truly winter worthy 4x4 RV - do you own one?

Most RV’s don’t handle freezing temps. The water lines freeze, for one, also the level of insulation, battery and heating fuel goes up exponentially - as does cost - now make that a 4x4. You see some around in the winter, but not many that work well.

Contractor

Boulder climber

Oct 26, 2018 - 06:11am PT

Anyone who's lived in San Diego knows about custom built Callen Campers- light and tough, made for Baja. I customized a water proof tool box into a bear proof galley for the luxery trips.

The Toyota Sienna is for vagabond surfing and ranger dodging on quick stike cragging trips.

Still plan on a Casita camper someday for peakbagging and fishing.

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Oct 26, 2018 - 06:56am PT

Tradman:

No camper in Chile. Used public transit & hitchiked. Like Patiperros.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Oct 26, 2018 - 07:27am PT

Notice with the Motocamper that you never see him actually get IN it? That POS would tip so effin' easily. Great thread.

BAd

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 07:37am PT

There is no best answer, individual needs and desires vary. We went the camper way and now are embarking on a car with trailer. Each mode has considerable pros and cons. Pitching a tent next to the car is another option and still the most common. I did that for thirty years before getting the camper.
Needs change....someone mentioned that the tent worked fine until he got married. The important thing is that car camping (no matter what method you choose) puts you out there where you want to be.

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Oct 26, 2018 - 07:49am PT

Just gotta say- That "Motohome" camper-motorcycle is the dumbest vehicle I've ever seen. Guy almost biffs-it multiple times in the performance video. Scetchy...

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

Oct 26, 2018 - 08:25am PT

This is an interesting thread, as I've been going through this decision making process myself. Currently have a 4runner and a regular tent.
But I've certainly thought recently about a trailer(something relatively small and rugged).

At least here in UT, it's interesting to see how things have changed over the last 5 or so years. I see so many of those converted Sprinters...it amazes me that there's that many people with that much income.
The other option I'm starting to see a lot of that hasn't been mentioned is the roof-top tent. Easier to set up than a regular tent, and a lot less than a trailer. And you can put it on top of a jeep or 4Runner if you want to go somewhere really hard to get to.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2018 - 08:41am PT

Yeah steverep we ponied up for a new Four Runner and Trailer and still paid considerably less than what a built out Sprinter will set you back. You already have the car and you could get a used Casita for around 10,000....Mal Daly loves his. I ran into a couple camped at the Black Canyon that had a 15 year old Casita that looked like new.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 26, 2018 - 12:00pm PT

How much you use it and how much you want to spend are of course factors. If I was retired and spending 6 months a year living out of something I'd buy something new or low miles and bigger. For what I needed I spent less money on our truck camper combo than many people spend on just a regular car. It's a 3rd car for us so it doesn't get many miles per year. I also use the truck for pulling trailers, and other big hauling jobs.

4x4 is often overrated. You spend 99%+ of your time on the road, but many people gear their needs for off road and sacrifice so much for it (mpg, handling, ride, comfortable freeway speed). Of course for some it's needed, e.g. you have true 4x4 roads to your favorite destinations. I also use my camper for skiing (CA only, so stock heater is fine, I have the "winter" package, a friend installed a boat heater that doesn't use a fan in his camper and can crank the heat without wearing out the battery and has taken it to Utah, etc.) and I take it to the beach (deep sand) so I bought 4WD. But for long road trips I wish I had 2WD. There's also AWD (which would get you to skiing for example, vs. high clearance 4WD. AWD with less suspension / weight difference is less of a trade off. A 2WD truck chassis based rig can still have plenty of clearance for dirt roads if you don't need awd/4wd.

Another option is a pop up tent camper. I know someone who got an old barely used one for $500. Probably much less mpg hit than a hard side trailer.

If you buy a high value used (i.e. older but in excellent condition) trailer or camper you can often use it for a few years and sell it for what you bought it for. So you could try out some options or upgrade later. A truck camper is great because it's just considered part of your vehicle so no sales tax or registration fees, and no separate insurance.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 26, 2018 - 12:05pm PT

4x4 is often overrated

Not when yer stuck

at night

and out of beer.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 26, 2018 - 01:25pm PT

My niece and her hubby went to Alaska for 3 months in a camper that was almost un used that they bought for 2,200> Dan already had the F250 so a tow behind in great shaper for super short money was a no brainer.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 26, 2018 - 01:32pm PT

I used to crash in the back of my honda civic or just sleep in the dirt unless I was going to be somewhere for a week and then I would maybe pitch the tent. these days I like the luxury :)

Batrock

Trad climber

Burbank

Oct 26, 2018 - 01:37pm PT

anyone making trailers and hitches specifically for off-road use?

Xcon,
My So Cal Teardrop is built for off highway use, it has Old Man Emu suspension and has the same wheels and tires as my jeep allowing me to use the spare on it if needed. The hitch is a Max Coupler that allows full articulation in all angles. I think the next best hitch would be a pintle hitch but those are pretty harsh sounding off road, lots of banging around but great articulation.

Cragar

climber

MSLA - MT

Oct 26, 2018 - 01:40pm PT

4x4 is often overrated

Depends on where you live/recreate, the weather, etc.

I see more tear drops, r-pods and slide-in campers these days. It seems like the sprinter isn't the best travel rig for the job up here, at least that is what I am hearing from the Bros-in-the-Knows. However, a face-to-face meeting on a narrow loggin' road is way harder with a trailer, at least for me it was/is. Those Casitas and Scamps are pretty cool too.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 26, 2018 - 01:40pm PT

Hell, Batman, even I could turn that rig around there! 😁

telemon01

Trad climber

Montana

Oct 26, 2018 - 01:43pm PT

When my kids were young we used to pull an eighteen foot travel trailer which was great for family comfort and convenience but a drag to have to tow. As soon as they were old enough to sleep in a tent without supervision we went back to a truck and topper - two of us in the truck and the kids in the tent. Sleeping in the back of my truck went on for 10-12 years.

Now that there is just two of us we bought a four season 9 1/2’ truck camper. Stove oven refrigerator table heater lights running hot water shower toilet and a queen size bed. And it’s still the back of the truck- the same space that held a 3” foamie is now the Taj Mahal.

No looking back now.

telemon01

Trad climber

Montana

Oct 26, 2018 - 01:51pm PT

4x4 is not overrated when climbing and skiing in winter. This is the trip I did with a friend that finally convinced me to pull the trigger and buy a truck camper

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Oct 26, 2018 - 02:04pm PT

I need AWD or 4X4 just to get to my house thou I will likely end up with a 2WD camper and only use it in the summer.....

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Oct 26, 2018 - 04:11pm PT

I dug myself out of sand or salt-covered mud slicks or other ruts enough times in the Prius that I was pretty adamant about power to 4 wheels and much higher clearance. It is nice to have on tap.

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Oct 26, 2018 - 06:07pm PT

4 x4 also not overrated for access to places where even a Ford Crown Victoria can reach. To wit:

1. Long, bumpy, rutted desert roads where I want to go dead slow in my rig to avoid pounding the crap out of my vehicle and camper. That's when I sink into low range, first gear and literally crawl no faster than a slow walk;

2. Modestly steep dirt with major washboard. Once you have to resort to speed to get up a bumpy hill, the rig starts to bounce and the rear tires will dig and overrev on the jump/bumps (which is what causes the wash boarding in the first place) and pretty soon the big rig is slowing down and can get stuck (even where the Crown Vics and Honda Accords keep going). If I put the Wildebeest into 4WD hi range, no problem to go a slow speed and no tire spinning on the washboard bumps.

So the 4 WD isn't just to get that last extra hundred yards down the road; it's useful to avoid pounding, wear and tear, tire gouging, etc.

I learned all this hard way when I first bought a 2WD pickup to tow my 16 foot long llama trailer on relatively easy Arizona desert dirt roads - and got stuck and stymied on easy, barely-steep pitches of washboard. Amazing how much of my "wisdom" was learned through "bad" experience that derived from ignorance, hubris and egotism. Why couldn't I figure out the obvious in the first place? I just don't know.

Delhi Dog

climber

Good Question...

Oct 26, 2018 - 09:49pm PT

Interesting thread and informative.
As a few others on this thread I'm looking to the near future for some kind of set up other than the tent camping I've done my whole life.
As Donini says, different needs at different times.

Anyway, those Aussie's sure have the trailer thing dialed in. And lots of 4x4 trailer options as well.

Here's some of the ones we ran across last time we were there.

Lots of tents on top of rigs too.

I'm amazed at how expensive some of the 4x4 trailers can be though.
And the Aussie's don't let towing a trailer get in the way of where they want to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbQ_s_0NsE0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p6syhAnhv0

http://www.patriotcampers.com.au/patriot-x1-off-road-camper-trailer/

Flip Flop

climber

Earth Planet, Universe

Oct 27, 2018 - 04:22am PT

hooblie

climber

from out where the anecdotes roam

Oct 27, 2018 - 07:43am PT

the point of this picture is:there are far too many "points of interest" between here and there to vehicularize yourself in such a way
that whistle stops, diversions and deeper probes are reduced to rubbernecking on forced roll-bys
... as if the journey was just a mission to deliver the pleasure palace
to it's destination in anticipation of legitimate exploration.

agility is thus rewarded, along with what we sometimes refer to as stealth,
which is really just the reaping of benefit for not making a spectacle of yourself ...
tho there could be a subtle upside to discretely wielding the odd conversation starter

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 27, 2018 - 10:20am PT

... a new Four Runner and Trailer and still paid considerably less than what a built out Sprinter will set you back.

I don't think this is true unless you're comparing to a new top of the line full commercial Sprinter conversion - which is rare, and even rarer among climber types. Even then, you'll likely have to upgrade your truck and trailer to get apples to apples in features and quality.

A base Sprinter is comparable in price to a modestly equipped 4 Runner or Sienna. Thereafter, the majority of conversions are likely less in value to what you paid for that trailer - 10k ish - from what I've seen. A DIY or a basic upfitter package with a platform bed, basic cabinet or two, jumper seat and maybe a fridge - it's just not that expensive. It's definitely not a display of wealth.

If you want all the features you get in a typical RV trailer, you're off to the used market for Sprinters - ie, you'd probably have to downgrade the Sprinter to used to match your setup in cost, expected useful life and build quality.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 27, 2018 - 11:51am PT

Moosie, an F350 with an Arctic Fox camper would be no big deal, even for you. 😉
There would be a learning curve in terms of spatial awareness but not a steep one, especially with proximity sensors and cameras.

clifff

Mountain climber

golden, rollin hills of California

Oct 27, 2018 - 12:14pm PT

Why compromise? You want luxury. Go all the way with the New 2019 Entegra Coach Aspire 44B. 500 plush square feet to relax in after a hard day battling the elements.

https://www.generalrv.com/product/new-2019-entegra-coach-aspire-44b-933428-10#photos

Just imagine a porcelain tile floor and backsplash, solid surface countertops, a residential refrigerator that includes an ice maker and water dispenser, and appliances to make any meal you like. You don't have to give up your way of life to travel the world. Now imagine waking up from a restful night's rest on a king size gel memory foam mattress with nightstands including USB ports and solid surface tops. You and your spouse can choose from the rear full bathroom with a washer and dryer or the half bath to get ready for the day. If you have some work to do, the free standing dinette would be a perfect setup while your spouse watches TV while sitting on the L-shaped sofa with her legs on an ottoman. If you need some outdoor time, the exterior TV under the awning might be one of your favorite spots. Take a look today!

GuapoVino

climber

Oct 27, 2018 - 02:59pm PT

I keep seeing lots of van haters on the internets. Not sure what it's from. Cedar Wright and some chick did a scathing bash of van for Outside Magazine a while back.

I bought a used Promaster for $23K and spent about $5K building out with my own labor. It turned out really nice (I'm skilled) and is great to travel in. I hate staying in hotels by myself. It seems like a waste of money and is a pain bringing my gear in every day and wondering if I'll be able to find a place to stay if I change my plans. Sleeping in a tent in the summer is fine but mid-winter it sucks. I ski out of my van and have been in it in temps as low as 5 degrees and it's toasty warm inside, perfect for one person. I have slept in several ski area parking lots which = free lodging.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 27, 2018 - 03:06pm PT

I keep seeing lots of van haters on the internets. Not sure what it's from

Guapo, being a looker you should understand this better than most. 😉

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Oct 27, 2018 - 05:14pm PT

Moose wrote:

"I'm not sure if I want to drive a huge truck"

Dude, I'll let you practice with mine; driving lesson no extra charge. It's all in the suspension. Get a Ford F-450.

hooblie

climber

from out where the anecdotes roam

Oct 29, 2018 - 05:45pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2018 - 05:51pm PT

TWP has a motto...lumber and slumber when buying gas ignore the number.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Oct 30, 2018 - 06:19am PT

Thanks, Hooblie. That was cool.

BAd

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2018 - 07:41am PT

Correct Dingus...maybe this should be on the “first world problems” thread.

ECF

Big Wall climber

Ridgway CO

Oct 30, 2018 - 07:51am PT

I’ve lived out of a Oldsmobile estate wagon, a Volvo sedan, a S-10 pickup, a Chevy van, and a Honda FIT.
More room leads to more stuff, which leads to less actual Funtime.

John Muir called it “impedimenta”.

All this modern van life is the absolute opposite of dirtbagging.
I saw a sprinter in IC that cost more than my last two houses combined.

It would actually be cheaper to stay in nice hotels and get room service, but hey, they are “living the dream”...

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2018 - 08:05am PT

No question that it’s the opposite of dirtbagging but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In my long climbing history I’ve stealth camped, scarfed, bivvied in the open, and slept on just about every surface imaginable. I have also stayed in my van and in nice hotels...now comes the trailer experience.
I still love camping out, my recent six weeks in the Karakoram can attest to that, but I’m pretty much finished setting up a tent in a car camping situation. I think that I now have a good combination...Four Runner, high clearance Toy Trailer, to put me in posistion to hike, climb and explore the magnificent American west. To each, his own.

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Oct 30, 2018 - 08:13am PT

Our trailer is in the driveway. We fired up the heater for the first time to burn off the contaminants. It'll be nice in a couple of weeks when we head out...this morning it was 28 degrees.

I'm assuming that it'll be colder in a couple of weeks, especially where we are going. It'll be so warm inside our trailer that I may sleep in : )

MikeL

Social climber

Southern Arizona

Oct 30, 2018 - 08:48am PT

We had two 4 wheel campers over 12 years, one on a Ford Ranger, and the second on a new F150. We initially wanted to get into the back country. We took a tour of various 4-wheel drive roads in California with a friend who had an old VW synchro, and we busted an anchor to the camper on a class-3 road, which led to much concern. We stopped trying to be a real 4-wheel, backcountry camper. Our friend's synchro went everywhere; amazing.

We got a lot of use from both of our set-ups. The 4-wheel drive was not worth the extra expense for us. Our trucks were heavy enough to drive through snow easily with aggressive tires, and extra springs on the rear made the truck drive on paved roads like it was on rails.

I have other things that keep my interests in my workshop, but my wife still loves camping—so off she goes by herself to various campgrounds (and meets other women who also like to camp). Here in southern Arizona, however, she complains about the length of the heat spell (4.5 months), so we are thinking about maybe moving back to the West Coast or to find something to do for 3 months out of this area. I’m looking at some 24 foot RVs (Navion, e.g.), but I am unsure that I want to live away for that length of time.

The real issue for us might be to come together about what we want to do *together* as a married couple now that we’re fully retired. (Sometimes I think I’ve been married too many times to take it all that seriously; gotta go with the flow, I guess.)

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 30, 2018 - 09:13am PT

we busted an anchor to the camper on a class-3 road, which led to much concern.

I think most people seeking 4x4 campers don't yet have the experience as to how common and expensive these kinds of problems are. Take the extra mass and volume of any RV whether it's a trailer, slide-in, whatever - then realize it's not going to be tight and rigid like a Wrangler - now bend and twist the whole thing over rough roads.

4x4 for ice, snow and maybe CA's chain laws - seems like a separate subject. Snowy roads don't bend and twist the vehicle.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2018 - 09:15am PT

I think that 4by4 Sorinter Vans with long wheel bases are asking for trouble if they get too adventuresome.

MikeL

Social climber

Southern Arizona

Oct 30, 2018 - 09:42am PT

Yeah, JLP and Donini, the experience gave me an appreciation of torque, suspension, and weight in the design of such platforms.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 30, 2018 - 09:54am PT

No offense, Mike, but putting anything more than a shell on a Ranger or F150 was asking for trouble.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Oct 30, 2018 - 10:10am PT

It sure is cool to see how folks in other countries roll too.

I've always been perplexed when other countries have vehicles that the US should have too.

In Europe they've had smaller diesel van based RVs for years. They always made sense to me. Better mpg. Easy to drive and park. It wasn't really until the sprinters came to the US that we started seeing them and they are really expensive. We've had gas powered, old tech body on frame van based big bloated Class Cs, or the same chassis type smaller Class Bs, but they are also overpriced when used because they are in such demand.

For years I'd wonder why other countries had 4 door mini trucks like Tacomas, but we didn't get them in the US. We finally got them and people buy a ton of them.

I would also really like a Toyota 4x4 diesel camper van, which wasn't imported to the US. Like a VW Vanagon, but Toyota reliability, diesel power/mpg, and off road capability.

stevep

Boulder climber

Salt Lake, UT

Oct 30, 2018 - 10:41am PT

You could put a roof-top tent on one of these:

https://sherpatv.com/

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Oct 30, 2018 - 10:53am PT

I've looked into Microvans for years. You can get them in Canada, but not here.

Yeah, agree, but I don't think it's about emissions or power.

Even the conversion parts are difficult to obtain or flat-out blocked from the US markets. Surf around EU sites for seating, stoves, cabinetry, oddball parts - really nice stuff - then try to buy it and see what happens.

Remember the last VW camper - but it was a Winnebago conversion - and now you can't even buy it? WTF was up with that? Did VW really need Winnebago? Clean units still sell today for more than they were originally bought for.

The US built RV seems really profitable. They're made like complete junk, they build them large, they last about 10 years, and they sell for a lot of money.

There are some serious forces at play protecting the Elkhart Indiana RV industry - it all seems to me.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Oct 30, 2018 - 11:09am PT

There are some serious forces at play protecting the Elkhart Indiana RV industry

Put the tin hat away, bro, the crankloon Walmart cheap at any price US consumer is all the
protection that industry needs. They see shiny bling, lotsa space, and low monthly payments
and they’re ready to sign. That said Airstream and the other few quality builders’ sales are
doing well. EarthRoamer has a lengthy waiting list at $500K!

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Oct 30, 2018 - 11:40am PT

I think that 4by4 Sorinter Vans with long wheel bases are asking for trouble if they get too adventuresome.

That's why we got the short wheel base (144") version of 4x4 Sprinter. This weekend wifey and I got the bench mounted on the rails in the van, now just need to affix the rails to the van floor with some custom hardware we still need to work out.

MikeL

Social climber

Southern Arizona

Oct 31, 2018 - 08:35am PT

Did I say I was smart? I never really know anything until I get involved.

The vehicle was the most comfortable vehicle we ever owned and drove. (We have two Audi's in the garage.) The camper sufficed for what we needed, and the depreciation was very little. We had very few complaints.

I have found that the bigger financial investments in my life often become regrettable, and that the simplest and poorest times have been perhaps the best. I say "perhaps" because I no longer trust my memory of objective data. What I remember most are my emotions and moods of times, and there is many many other things that seem to create those than material things. (Werner is right.)

Roots

Mountain climber

Redmond, Oregon

Oct 31, 2018 - 09:25am PT

One of my favorites:

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Nov 2, 2018 - 05:44am PT

While at Iguazu Falls, Argentina, I saw this funky book-of-a-camper rig and its proud owner parking at the front entrance. It was a hot day and the metal box had but one tiny window, it so had to be hotter than Hades. I had to take a picture as it reminded me of my beloved Wildebeest of about the same vintage. (Photos of the Wildebeest appear earlier in this thread.)

After taking the first picture, I wondered how many people Dad was hauling around in his heat box. The answer: 13 people piled out of the box, happy and unfazed. (Only 11 people shown in the picture; there were more.)

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2018 - 10:46am PT

We went the trailer route and just bought a T@B 400 teardrop trailer. Spent a night in it with the outside temp down to 18 degrees, stayed toasty...pretty sweet!

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 11, 2018 - 10:58am PT

Jim, I strongly suggest you invest in one, or both, of these...

Not necessarily those particular brands but you get it.
Don’t make it easy for the bastards.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2018 - 11:08am PT

Reilly, we have the tire lock.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Nov 11, 2018 - 12:17pm PT

A motivated thief could unbolt the wheel and install the spare - in maybe 5 minutes? Maybe some locking lug nuts as a cheap upgrade?

Yeah - the RV crowd where there's free camping - sketchy - motorheads are the worst.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2018 - 12:20pm PT

Hey guys....I don’t expect to use it much in California...I should be okay.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 11, 2018 - 12:27pm PT

JLP, with the lug nuts covered how do you remove the wheel?
Not saying you couldn’t Sawzall the lock off but the better ones are pretty stout.

phylp

Trad climber

Upland, CA

Nov 11, 2018 - 04:15pm PT

The US built RV seems really profitable. They're made like complete junk, they build them large, they last about 10 years, and they sell for a lot of money.

JLP, you helped me out with a question about service on my Ford-based Winnebago, so I know you have a ton of experience, but I have to say I am still thrilled with my 28' Winnebago Outlook, which is 13 years old now. It's in perfect condition. Everything internally still works great and I think the only thing we have ever replaced is a toilet and a couple of screens that the chipmunks ate trying to get in. No issues with plumbing, electrical, heater, AC, Generator, kitchen appliances, materials all still look new.

We bought it at the end of the model year, one that was on a lot, and I thought the price of $62,500 was pretty good considering we were getting a brand new E-350 truck. We put some other money into it to get solar and an inverter, but it's been one of the best decisions we ever made.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 11, 2018 - 04:27pm PT

My bro in law’s 2 yr old Bago has already ‘thrown’ its slide mechanism, some cabinets are falling apart, it was infested with mice because pipe and wiring holes weren’t caulked, and an axle went bad. Maybe his was just built on a Friday afternoon?

BuddhaStalin

climber

Truckee, CA

Nov 11, 2018 - 05:40pm PT

Too bad its not a truck, a popup cabover camper is the bees knees for me. Regular open bed 4wd truck when you dont have the camper on. Versatile, truck is my daily driver. Fits under the carport in an apt building and fits through a drivethru with ease. Offroads well and more than you think you can, but I try not to work it too hard too often.

All Terrain Bobcat
Chevy Colorado 4x4 diesel

I know a few folks who really like their Rpods and Casitas and tow them with less than a 4runner.

Everybody has their favorite flavor, van, camper, trailer, etc

TWP

Trad climber

Mancos, CO & Bend, OR

Nov 11, 2018 - 05:47pm PT

Jim:

I'm going to continue to give you the hard way to go about your Euro-sissy trailer.

I know your driving habits. To say you drive too fast is well, an understatement.

Trailers take an amazing beating and bounce around a lot more than the passengers in the towing vehicle imagine. No wonder; the vehicle has excellent suspension and it must otherwise no one would buy it.

Trailers on the other hand have small tires, weak suspensions and force is translated to their less-than-ideally constructed shells and interiors very effectively. If you don't believe me, ride inside the trailer for a while as Angela drives - and be sure to tell her to drive like a bat out of hell so you get the full effect. You'll cry "Uncle" in no time flat.

In short, the trailers break down and the owners wonder why ... unless they do the experiment I recommended above.

Jorge and JoAnn Urioste have told me about their disappointments with their trailer's reliability (a "Casita"), or lack thereof and they provide a useful data point.

You can tell me how wrong I am - but only after five years - and then I might listen to claims of good survivability for trailers. Because I know you won't slow down.

Cheers,
Your admiring friend,
Terry

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Nov 11, 2018 - 05:50pm PT

Different strokes for everyone. At 6'1" I can get a good nights sleep in a 96 Civic Hatchback by pulling the back of the back seat down, sliding the passenger seat forward, removing the headrest and reclining the seat all the way back while I kneel on it until the back of the front seat is crammed down level with the back of the back seat. Level everything out with soft gear and I am good to go.

Crazy Bat

Sport climber

Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN

Nov 11, 2018 - 09:24pm PT

My 80 year old father finally realized he needed to move up from a tent. He was looking at teardrops but I convinced him to look at an Aliner. It is a great upgrade for him. We drove from Tn to Montana at speed with no reduction in gas mileage on my 4wd F150. My friends with older smaller Toyota 4wd pickups report a reduction of 2 mpg with the same rig. It makes a much better basecamp because you can stand up and cook in it. Of course we have to worry more about rain than you desert dwellers.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Nov 11, 2018 - 11:19pm PT

I can get a good nights sleep in a 96 Civic Hatchback

This is what I did in high school.

How many nights a year do you get out like this?

I have to be to work Monday AM fresh and chipper, and I want to be out every wknd. I need an RV to make that happen - or I don't get out as much. I used to be tougher, but the next RV is going to have a toilet and shower - and probably be another 2-3 feet longer...

BuddhaStalin

climber

Truckee, CA

Nov 12, 2018 - 05:27pm PT

The Casita does take abuse a bit better than a lot of the others. 2 piece fiberglass tub construction.

I could sleep in a 96 honda if i needed to, but what is wrong with comfort and convenience and the ability to sit out bad weather pleasantly?

Don Paul

Social climber

Washington DC

Nov 13, 2018 - 06:02am PT

Once I lost my job as a traveling salesman when my employer went out of business. Instead of severance pay, I got to keep my company car - a Ford Taurus with about 150,000 miles on it. The first thing I did was remove the passenger seat and build something out of wood so I could sleep there. My plan was to "head west" which I did, living in the car on Magnolia Road until I ran into someone I knew who was looking for a roommate and moved in. That car was such a dog. Driving across Utah would make the engine overheat and I'd have to pull over and wait for it to cool off. Now that I'm older I need more space and drive an old blazer that needs no mods at all.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2018 - 06:33am PT

We chose the T@B because of the quality workmanship, it should take driving abuse quite well. When we looked at trailers there was a marked difference in materials used and attention to detail.

Leaving for a month in New Zealand in two hours!

Rick A

climber

Boulder, Colorado

Nov 13, 2018 - 06:38am PT

I can get a good nights sleep in a 96 Civic Hatchback

I spent quite a few rainy nights in my 1972 Pinto hatchback, using the same method. Fold the back seats down, tilt the front seats forward, fill the well behind the front seats with gear, and you had a flat bed of seven or eight feet.

Only problem in that cozy space was the condensation accumulating on the windows and the ceiling, and dripping onto you by the morning.

JLP

Social climber

The internet

Nov 13, 2018 - 10:17am PT

Only problem in that cozy space...

The main problem I had with compact car camping is having to blow everything up to get at things. You spend a lot of time repacking and living in a disorganized nest. A trailer, I have to admit, wins in this category - being able to separate a crag approach vehicle from the camper, leaving everything set and organized.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 13, 2018 - 10:37am PT

We’ve many of us spent nights on some miniscule ledge hugging some perv for warmth.
Most of us have gotten beyond that, too. I’m not man enough to begrudge Donini a
modicum of comfort either.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Nov 13, 2018 - 10:56am PT

Whoa, Jim, that's gonna be a tough drive with the T@B across the Pacific. You da man!

BAd

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Nov 13, 2018 - 11:25am PT

I’ve lived out of a Oldsmobile estate wagon, a Volvo sedan, a S-10 pickup, a Chevy van, and a Honda FIT.
More room leads to more stuff, which leads to less actual Funtime.

All this modern van life is the absolute opposite of dirtbagging.
I saw a sprinter in IC that cost more than my last two houses combined.

It would actually be cheaper to stay in nice hotels and get room service, but hey, they are “living the dream”...

I don't see any reason that climbers are obliged to be dirtbaggers. Sounds like classism to me.

Yes, more room leads to more stuff. I'm not sure how that leads to less actual funtime. Rolling out in the morning went quicker once I switched from an Accord to a van.

And if you are going to point out it possibly being cheaper to stay in a nice hotel, IC is a curious choice. Indian Creek is what, an hour drive from the nearest hotel?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 13, 2018 - 11:27am PT

Motels have bedbugs and sundry other disgusting attributes,
not the least of which are the other ‘guests’.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Nov 13, 2018 - 11:46am PT

If you buy a trailer with shock absorbers it bounces around a lot less.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 13, 2018 - 12:49pm PT

Nice hotels start at like $300 / night.

Sadly, mostly true, in the US. In Europe perfectly nice motels/hotels start at like $80.
Even in expensive Norway a really nice place can be had for $150, with a killer breakfast!
Why do we always get screwed? Sorry for the drift.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Nov 13, 2018 - 01:06pm PT

Or go to Vegas and pay for a multi billion dollar stadium for a the wealthy silver spoon traiders owner. All that money and he can’t buy a decent hair cut.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Nov 13, 2018 - 01:08pm PT

They just charge climbers more because they like hugging pervs.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Nov 13, 2018 - 01:11pm PT

I have never paid over 100 bucks a night. For $100 I am crashing in the civic. That includes SF and NYC. Came close in NY but opted for a one bed apartment for about 100 a night for a week in lower east side. Was way better than a hotel even though there was no mints on the pillow or sexy maids in heels, never mind, that was just a dream.

Cheldric

Sport climber

Colorado Springs

Nov 16, 2018 - 04:34am PT

We went from backpacking and tents, to car camping tents, to old used travel trailer, to newer travel trailer - with no regrets. A good 4x4 to tow, park it, use it as a home base. The 4x4 gets us places no average motorized camping rig can go. Dog, grand-kids, climbing gear - and room to cook, shower, and sleep. (Hmmm, maybe I'm getting old?!)

Pictured here - parked in Garden Park near Shelf Road, Colorado.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Nov 16, 2018 - 11:06am PT

^^^^^ Great pic! Makes me wanna be there.

BAd

Lituya

Mountain climber

Nov 16, 2018 - 11:14am PT

Coachmen Orion 24' on Ford Transit 350 chassis. 14.7mpg. (15.4 with Canadian corn-free petrol.) Suzuki VanVan 200cc machine strapped to the back.

Bear Glacier BC--on the road to Hyder AK this past July.

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Nov 19, 2018 - 12:03pm PT

Ok trustfund and corporate burn-out crowd, there is a new dream on the horizon:
https://electrek.co/2018/11/19/tesla-mercedes-benz-electric-sprinter-van-elon-musk/

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Nov 19, 2018 - 12:26pm PT

I have never gotten better fuel mileage with Canadian nor U.S. corn-based fuel.

I get at least a 15% drop in mileage.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Nov 19, 2018 - 04:44pm PT

Ghetto camping a few miles in the other direction testing the 4x4 coming out of a site in bear tooth pass Black Hills

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Nov 19, 2018 - 05:36pm PT

I hope to live to see a real breakthrough in battery technology. Cost, range, and ease/speed of charging are real barriers to widespread adoption of the tech.

BAd

Lituya

Mountain climber

Nov 19, 2018 - 06:27pm PT

Agree. Competing with cheap oil is difficult. I don;t care what powers my ride--as long as it gets me there.

Maybe some sort of battery exchage will emerge. Instead of waiting for your vehicle to recharge, you simply swap out your depleted cell for a fresh one.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Nov 19, 2018 - 08:28pm PT

Pretty good MPG on that rig, Lituya. Towing our R-Pod with the V8 Tundra we get about 11. Ugh. Well, it ain't a commuting vehicle. Gets excellent mileage while parked, however.

BAd

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2018 - 08:43pm PT

Drove our new T@B 400 home to Ouray with our V6 Four Runner and got 13.5 mpg. Would be nice to have it here in New Zealand.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

ne'er–do–well

Nov 19, 2018 - 09:03pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Lituya

Mountain climber

Nov 19, 2018 - 09:26pm PT

Pretty good MPG on that rig, Lituya. Towing our R-Pod with the V8 Tundra we get about 11. Ugh. Well, it ain't a commuting vehicle. Gets excellent mileage while parked, however.

We love the Ford Transit chassis. 3.7L V6 with 280 hp I think. A bit underpowered for the long grades--but Canada highways are the friggin absolute best. Passing lanes to let the speeders go by exactly where they ought to be.

Unfortunately, we've had a few issues with the RV/box portion. Pretty much every cupboard hinge and latch has had to be replaced--and the shower and toilet both had leaks that had to be repaired in-flight. A nice big propane leak in Williams Lake too, fixed by the awesome staff at Caribou Propane. All factory defects and poor quality control.

Hopefully we're past all the repair issues now.

perswig

climber

Nov 20, 2018 - 02:23am PT

Lituya, about that VanVan.
What's your experience with it as a roadbike? Comfortable up to 60mph or really geared for less and off-road stuff?
Weight and seat height seem attractive for a very small rider in mind (like 5'2" and a buck-ten); I'm interested.

Thanks!
Dale

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Nov 20, 2018 - 03:33am PT

Without exception every factory build that I have looked at was like a cheap hotelroom that is not set up to my tastes... Even the Westy it cute and reasonably good quality but not how I would do it.... I obviously need a cargo van as a clean pallet for my dream build....

SC seagoat

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, Moab, Bozeman, the ocean, or ?

Nov 20, 2018 - 06:48am PT

Would be nice to have it here in New Zealand.

I saw that same rig being towed b a runner on highway 50 yesterday near Gunnison. I thought it might be you and Angela. I guess not. It might have been the smaller T@B....I think you guys got the one with the permanent bed in it??

Anyway enjoy the New Zealand summer.

Susan.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Nov 20, 2018 - 06:49am PT

Man, those T@B's be cool.

BAd

Lituya

Mountain climber

Nov 20, 2018 - 07:12am PT

My wife loves it--super easy to ride with the fat tires and goes anywhere. Nice comfortable seat too. I ride a couple of other bikes, so this one feels way under-powered, but it suits its purpose--which is to get us out of camp and up mountain roads that the RV wont go. Love it!

It'll go 60mph full throttle. With a tail wind. It cruises easily at 50.

perswig

climber

Nov 20, 2018 - 08:11am PT

^^Awesome photo op, and her smile!
Kinda what I figured, based on specs and that tire/wheelbase, but I still find it very appealing, and the built-in speed governor aspect might be a plus in certain hands.

Thanks again.
Dale

telemon01

Trad climber

Montana

Nov 20, 2018 - 09:37am PT

12.8 mpg on our recent road trip to the desert. Our mini home on wheels- dang I can’t wait until retirement

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Nov 20, 2018 - 12:58pm PT

If money was not an issue a cab over like that would be interesting...

telemon01

Trad climber

Montana

Nov 20, 2018 - 05:11pm PT

Hey Tradman

Compared to a van build out truck campers are a great value.

I bought the truck in 2004. We bought the camper used for $7K a few months ago. Its a 2005 Four Season Adventurer. I spent about $1400 prepping the truck- camper tie downs and airbags for the suspension.

Considering all the amenities, traveling in this set up is really affordable. The truck is diesel and a workhorse with four wheel drive

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Nov 20, 2018 - 06:26pm PT

I like the beastly 4x4 aspect. still a sh#t ton of $$$ for fuel and the truck and the camper....

MattF

Trad climber

Bend, Or

Nov 26, 2018 - 12:49pm PT

Here's what I lived in for 2.5 years all over the western US. Towed my car behind my van - left the van setup as a basecamp for 1-6 weeks at a time while I used the car to spin around:

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 26, 2018 - 01:29pm PT

Lotta people at Walmart, too. Americans are only interested in price, although Airstream sales are very good.

Jon Beck

Trad climber

Oceanside

Nov 26, 2018 - 02:54pm PT

The WakMart thing is coming to a grinding halt . . . Get ready!

Are you referring to the parking lot slumber parties or the gross materialism?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 26, 2018 - 03:02pm PT

Cheap ain’t goin’ outta style! In Europe they buy those cheap miniscule caravans and as soon as they save a few Euros they move up to a van. In Sweden you see plenty of big trailers cause they have good Murrican style roads. In Norway they can afford any damn thing they want but the roads are waaay unfriendly to trailers.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 26, 2018 - 05:07pm PT

Not in Europe! You can camp almost anywhere you have room to get off the road, including picnic areas and rest areas! The US blows chunks in comparison.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 27, 2018 - 08:15am PT

It is a good thing if you like a little privacy and don’t like paying through the nose. It does get a little out of hand in France sometimes but considering they’ve the population of California and Illinois crammed into an area the size of New Mexico and Arizona they’re pretty civil most of the time. It wouldn’t work here because Americans are stoopid, rude, and ruin everything. Give ‘em an inch and they’ll take the whole farmer’s field. And then the guns would come out, right?

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Nov 27, 2018 - 08:47am PT

You are camping in a different Europe than I.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Nov 27, 2018 - 09:19am PT

You are camping in a different Europe than I.

Not sure what that’s supposed to mean, please try being more specific, but maybe you’re too good to hang with Euro dirtbags?

radair

Social climber

North Conway, NH

Dec 10, 2018 - 10:35am PT

Those trailers are pretty cool but I am a van person. I blame my dad, who bought me a 1957 Divco milk truck to use for a summer rig. That thing was way cool, with a fold-up driver's seat and a second set of pedals so you could drive standing up. 58-mph maximum speed with a tail wind and downhill. I once got stopped by the cops 3 times in one day, no tickets or warnings though.

Through marriage and kids we went thru the usual mini-vans, then I picked up an '84 VW Westfalia full camper. This was an excellent vehicle but the reliability and head gasket problems of the Vanagons were kind of an issue. The engine caught fire right before I was about to sell it so I parted it out and netted more than if I sold it whole.

I replaced the '84 Westy with a 2002 Eurovan Weekender, which has the pop-top and fold down table but no kitchen or storage cabinets. This rig was a flawless beast that took us on many adventures over the 11 years I owned it. I sold it a month ago for $15k with almost 187k miles on it. The down side of this van was winter use - sleeping in the pop top is like winter camping and I need 4wd in my driveway, so it was stored every winter. The other issue is I wanted mountain bikes to ride inside for weather and theft protection after two horrendous trips thru Colorado mountain passes in full conditions last spring.

With that in mind I took the plunge on a 144" wheelbase Sprinter with 4wd. I bought it as a bare cargo van and have been slowly converting it. I still have lots of finish work to do, but I have installed a solar-electric system, DC-powered fridge, roof vent/fan, swivel seats, sink w/running water, super comfortable bed and a diesel heater that is the bomb (not literally). The stand up room is not to be dismissed either. Yes, they are ridiculously expensive to buy and maintain. I'm not totally comfortable with how ostentatious it is but after spending a week in it recently I'm getting there pretty quickly.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Dec 10, 2018 - 10:46am PT

I once got stopped by the cops 3 times in one day

What, they thought you were rustling cows? That thing is so cool!

radair

Social climber

North Conway, NH

Dec 10, 2018 - 10:56am PT

Reilly, it was about as cool a vehicle as a kid in high school could own. Bifold doors you could swing out and back in. Wheelies in 1st gear, no seat belts, 10 mpg and a 6V electrical system where sparks would fly when jumped with 12V (often).

It was sold in the fall to some people who left our plates on it and committed burglaries in Rhode Island.

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Dec 10, 2018 - 12:50pm PT

That's a neat history and progression, radair. Share some pics and stories of your new build. Love that stuff.

BAd

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Dec 10, 2018 - 12:59pm PT

usually the vanagons catch on fire from leaky valve cover gasket dripping on the manifold. Always roll with a fire extinguisher. when you see too much smoke in the mirror stop, hop out and spray. usually draws a few odd looks ;)

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber

moving thru

Dec 10, 2018 - 01:16pm PT

So Jim, I probably missed it but what kind of a trailer are you thinking of? I think the logic is good.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2018 - 02:37pm PT

Lynne...I’m cooling my heels in Sydney, Australia waiting for a flight to the States. We got a T&B 400. Going to take it down to Arizona in a week.

Iamjus10

Trad climber

Dec 11, 2018 - 03:09pm PT

What do you call a fully built out Mercedes Sprinter with a young couple? Answer...Trustifarivan.

Thats pretty dumb. I live in a built out Sprinter van and dont have any trust fund money. It cost about 45K to make a BRAND NEW Sprinter van home. 45K for an entire home isn't that crazy. Get a 6 year loan with 0 down and you're still around 700 a month. $700 a month isn't so bad. Especially since that is 0 down. It can even be afforded on minimum wage.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber

moving thru

Dec 11, 2018 - 06:30pm PT

Looks very sweet Jim. Have fun with it!

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jan 3, 2019 - 05:51pm PT

^^^. How is that worth $200K? And you wouldn’t even be allowed to use it in griz country,
let alone in winter.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Jan 3, 2019 - 08:53pm PT

I like this set up, but I be old.A few years ago I would have said I would never pull a trail.

Jim Clipper

climber

Jan 3, 2019 - 10:27pm PT

Meh. If it has wheels, it's probably too high rent for me.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jan 3, 2019 - 11:09pm PT

Frumy, how old is yer Fox and has she treated you fairly?

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Jan 4, 2019 - 09:23am PT

She is a 2016, I've put a little over 14,000 miles on it. It has had a lot of little problems, but nothing that wasn't easily fixed. I actually love the damn thing.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Feb 15, 2019 - 10:44am PT

I just found out about another great rig we don't get in the US, that's prime for camper conversions. The Toyota Land Cruiser Troop Carrier "Troopy Campers".

The Land Cruiser is among the longest lasting and most off road capable vehicles there is.

Lots of them converted in Australia.

Pete_N

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, CA

Feb 15, 2019 - 01:59pm PT

Discussion needs a sound track...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INnFvMgET1E

Tom Patterson

Trad climber

Seattle

Feb 16, 2019 - 05:57am PT

donini - nice rig! We have a teardrop, but you can't stand up in it (unlike yours).

I don't know if you've seen this on YouTube, or not, but there's a fun vlog done by a photographer named Mandy Lea who is full-timing it in one of those TABs (she started with a TAG).

You can see it HERE if you're interested.

Have fun with that thing!

Bad Climber

Trad climber

The Lawless Border Regions

Feb 16, 2019 - 06:38am PT

Okay, I'm in love with the fancy Sprinters, and the trailers are all cool, but why does watching these vids make me want to grab a bivi sack, a wool blanket, a wad of hardtack and call it good? What would Norman Clyde do?

BAd

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Feb 16, 2019 - 07:37am PT

What would Norman Clyde do!

The world would be a better place if men asked them selfs that before they did anything.

surfstar

climber

Santa Barbara, CA

Apr 17, 2019 - 02:40pm PT

We currently just tent camp, and keep having discussions on what would be the next step up - for extended trips during retirement (7-12 years off - still dreaming!)

Van or truck setup vs trailer

Both have pros/cons. We usually don't need to stealth camp, and many crags require a drive from camp, so we're leaning trailer.

THIS is the one that has caught our eye, for the main reason that we want to be "outside" when camping - a plush trailer/van lends to too much inside feeling and missing of sunsets. This trailer would allow you to still feel like you're outside cooking when you're inside escaping bugs/weather/etc...

https://safaricondo.com/en/caravanes-alto/

Currently our top contender. Great reviews. 18 month lead time, hand built in Canada for ~$30k. Light, tows easily. Hope they're still around in 5-10 years...

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Apr 18, 2019 - 10:22am PT

Nice looking rig. All that glass makes me think it will be hot. Having my own real bathroom and shower ( things I would not have wanted ten years ago ) make life really nice when it's wet, cold, & blowing.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Apr 18, 2019 - 10:34am PT

Virtue signaling one’s love of being a hard man with a bivy sac is all well and good, until it starts sleeting - just don’t come knocking on my camper door.

Health exigencies are the determining factors for many peoples’ descent into glamping.

formerclimber

Boulder climber

Apr 18, 2019 - 10:41am PT

Most of this glamping is a lot worse to health than tent camping in sleet - it's just the effect is not immediately obvious. Most of these trailers are boxes full of toxic chemicals that outgas a lot, especially in warm weather. Only all-aluminum ones/aluminum interior or some old ones that mostly outgassed are not that.
(LOL @ $700/month trailer being "affordable" at minimum wage)

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Apr 18, 2019 - 10:50am PT

‘Outgassing’ duly noted, formerclimber.

formerclimber

Boulder climber

Apr 18, 2019 - 10:59am PT

‘Outgassing’ duly noted, formerclimber.

Good that you care

formerclimber

Boulder climber

Apr 18, 2019 - 11:11am PT

I weighted on buying a cargo van (wouldn't even consider a trailer for travel because of massive headache of dealing with storing, maneuvering/parking, protecting, towing, extra gas costs and remodeling it-getting rid of all the chemical crap these things are stuffed with).... big pop-up tent for rainy/snowy weather, with vestibule. Takes seconds to setup without anything inside it getting wet and quick to take down. The only drawback is quickly drying it all out not being easy on a trip. Plus having propane catalytic tent heater seem to work just fine (and may be mini camp cot in case floor gets wet).The good/fun memories come from all the aspects of dealing with tent camping, not from sitting in a box.... van is as far as I'd go (in the future - and I lived out of backpacking tent and sedan car for years, so know all the annoyances that come with long term tent camping). Having a cat travel with me is the only reason to get a van setup.

Batrock

Trad climber

Burbank

Apr 18, 2019 - 01:18pm PT

My set up while climbing with Medusa last week. He sleeps in the penthouse.

formerclimber

Boulder climber

Apr 18, 2019 - 04:55pm PT

If I end up going for cargo van conversion I'm going to do this:
no permanent bed or seats/benches of any kind - camp cot is easy to fold, they now take no space folded - fold away for the day. Folding camp chair to sit in.
Another option is to saw the legs off the cot and make it attached to the wall/fold up, kind of like porta ledge.
Small shower stall in the back + composting toilet.
No drawers and minimum shelving. Mesh bags by the ceiling/on the walls for storage, few high metal shelves that can fold up. Food storage in a couple of plastic crates/removable/no kitchen pantry.
Kitchen prep "table" - metal shelf that folds away/doubles as dining table too.
Backpacking stove is plenty for cooking/no need for a range.
Pumpless water dispenser - the one that hangs on the wall and dispenses water when you push the plug up, they don't sell them here for decades now I guess/has to be bought overseas. This also allows to have less things to winterize.
The only thing that is truly static would be the shower.

FRUMY

Trad climber

Bishop,CA

Apr 19, 2019 - 08:17am PT

I put about 300,000 miles traveling in this unit. I have had Vans & cargo trucks before and they all have the same problem. You are stuck with your stuff! You can't do any road that is rough. Even if you hang & stow everything in ship shape it gets f_ked up.
With a trailer you can leave it and go on.
I spent the first 50 years of my life sleep outside because I cannot stand the smell of tents. I was as careful as I could be about outgassing.
This is the advantage of a trailer. We left the trailer at camp and have driven up a steep hill so SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED would have a great place to watch the eclipse.

formerclimber

Boulder climber

Apr 19, 2019 - 12:04pm PT

Regarding smell from tents (off-gassing from car interiors is a lot worse, there's more surface to offgas especially with all the fluff/fibres and the sheer amount of plastic, plus, tires will emit fumes after a hot day not to mention the engine with all the hot oil/fluids evaporation, and pavement fumes):
tent brands aren't equal on this, some are bad (experience with REI) others not so. Washing a new tent really helps. Next step is baking it out in the sun for a while, this worked for me to remove remaining smell except some brands just retain it (a trial and error process). I have older tent that has zero smell, simply, and it's not leaky. Previous tent was the same way. Also, not using rain fly daily - putting it on only when there's rain forecast helps (as the rain fly shouldn't be baked in UV light to the same degree as the main tent, so it may retain more smell...I baked the rain fly out though to the point it has no smell and still have no problem with water), some tents are mostly mesh now. Some companies claim they're not using fire retardant and say their tent won't smell even new (Hilleberg) -- but I haven't tried them. Canvas tent that is fire retardant-free is also a possible option (they don't get waterproofing chemicals or get stuff like silicone only), like at least some Kodiak tents.

maldaly

Trad climber

Boulder, CO

Apr 19, 2019 - 02:24pm PT

After many years of deliberation and indecision we decided on a trailer rig. We got a 17’ Casita, used, for just under $12K. The dinette is our bed, permanently made up and the small two-top does the trick for eating and playing dominoes when we’re inside. We don’t hang out inside unless it’s crappy weather out. Things like spring snowstorms and desert wind/dust storms are what put us inside. We have our car camping kitchen setup outside and that is where we cook unless the weather shuts us down. We rarely use the toilet and only dshower every third day or so.

When we pull the trailer—a PITA—we usually park it for a few days, leaving us with a basecamp we can leave set up when we hike or kayak or climb. We’ve done the van life thing—a ‘65 split-window, an ‘73 VW and an ‘82 Westy. We loved them but found that we were always bumming rides to the crag so we didn’t have to tear down the base camp.

Yup, the Casita, even with 15” tires and a 3 1/2” lift rattles like hell. I travel with a drill and lots of nuts and bolts to fix the hinges so they don’t rip out of the pressboard. I just about have all them secured now. We also figured out how to store all our food and drink so it doesn’t spill or tip over. It’s kind of like having a sailboat. Whatever will fall out or off a shelf or cabinet, will. And there’s always a project to do or something to fix.

All that’s said we love it would never go back to tent camping or van life.

Cheers, Mal

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