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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 22, 2018 - 05:18pm PT
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I know there are a ton of good mechanics here, so I'd like some advice. I'll delete this off-topic thread once I get an answer.
I own a Winnebago that gets driven only about 4500 miles per year. It's a Ford E350 Superduty Econoline.
Current mileage is 55K
Last time I took it in for an oil change service, they tried to up-sell me a bunch of stuff that they said needed "immediate" attention.
I looked up the recommendations when this stuff should be done on that engine on the internet, but I'm wondering what those who know auto stuff say. Should I have the stuff done or is it all bull and just a way to make more money?
Coolant flush. Internet says to do every 30K, I last had it done at 25K
Transmission service. I'm confused about the recommendations I saw for this. It's either 50K, 100K or 150K. It was done at 30 K previously.
Brake flush. Internet say to do every 30K or 2 years. It was done at 42K in Feb 2015, so it's more than 3 years but less than 30K miles.
My husband says they mostly just are trying to make money with these recs and change these fluids and flush perfectly good fluids away. But I'm the one who mostly drives the RV and he's not a mechanic...
Can anyone give me an opinion?
Thanks, Phyl
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 22, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
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Flushes are for toilets. Hubby is correct
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 22, 2018 - 05:26pm PT
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I don't think I've had any of those things done on any vehicle I've owned.
I wouldn't.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 22, 2018 - 05:45pm PT
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Step one - RTFM. The owners manual should spell this out pretty clear.
Caveats:
Coolant - modern coolant has a 100k mile service life, but that might not be what is in your manual. 25-50k service lives are from the 80’s.
Tranny fluid: Your owners manual likely has different mileages for different “schedules” - A, B etc or some such, based on use - is the vehicle a taxi or do you tow, etc.
Brake fluid takes on water over time. You can look at it and tell, it gets darker with more water. It should be clear with a slight yellow/red tint. Flushing every 2 years is pretty worst case, though, but it just depends. The water is a cancer to the componants, and can also boil off and cause the brakes to fail.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
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sounds like the usual dealership scare tactics...ask the service manager if he knows horse face...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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There are test strips for most of the fluids mentioned
Ask to see them
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:41pm PT
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Friend of mine had a super clean run around town 04 Toyota Highlander with 42k miles. Original brakes went metal on metal so he took it to Pep Boys. Came out with a 5,000 dollar estimate. he could not find it unfortunately. What did he do? called me to come and get it, was not worth fixing. I drove it home and replaced the front and rear brake pads for less than 60 bucks and have made two trips to Yosemite and a trip to the creek.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:47pm PT
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Came out with a 5,000 dollar estimate from Pepboys for a brake job like that.
I don't believe you .......
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:48pm PT
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Due to the low miles driven per year, you should consider variables of both time and mileage, when considering brake fluid and coolant. Replace coolant with "long-life". Time is a factor due to increasing acidity and the breakdown of corrosion inhibiting chemicals in coolant.
Due to the heavier vehicle (I'm assuming this is a class "C" motorhome?), the transmission must work harder than a regular van. Do you have the Triton V-10 engine? Perhaps there are specific recommendations for transmission fluid change intervals. In lieu of those specs, I'd suggest halving the interval in the Ford owner's manual. Perhaps there's a recommendation for heavy/frequent towing which might serve as a guideline.
My E-350 4x4 V-10 van went through a transmission at 100K miles. A factory re-manufactured transmission plus installation wasn't cheap. Don't cheap out on transmission servicing. I don't like the fluid change-by-machine at the chain store oil change centers. The machine circulates fresh oil in and supposedly flushes out the old. I prefer the old-school way of dropping the pan. You can then visually inspect for excessive clutch material and/or metal in the bottom of the pan.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
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I was actually waiting for Juan Maderita to post to this thread.
And he came up with the real goods as usual ......
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
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I don't believe you .......
You should get out (to auto repair shops in affluent neighborhoods) more often.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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Show me the actual paper estimate from PepBoys and I'll believe you.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
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A transmission should last the life of a vehicle if serviced properly.
Yeah only for Jim Brennan who only drives to the mall once a week on Sundays to buy his Geritol .......
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John M
climber
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Oct 22, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
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A transmission should last the life of a vehicle if serviced properly. Clutches and Torques are another topic !
For average use, perhaps..
stolen from Juan's photos
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 22, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
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I'm with JLP. It's a simple job to bleed all the brakes in sequence and flush out all the old brake fluid. Don't use opened cans of brake fluid to refill the reservoir, use new stuff; it's cheap and new fluid won't have absorbed any water. All you need is some plastic tubing that fits tightly on the bleed nipple, a waste can (keep the end of the tube submerged so you don't suck back air), a small box end wrench and some jacking and wheel removal skills. While you're at it adjust the rear drums (if any) and you will be amazed at the stiff pedal and lack of travel when braking. This is also a great time to inspect pads and see if you are due.
As to the $5000 brake job........ New rotors are less than $100 and pads are maybe $40 an end unless it's a Porsche or Ferrari. How anyone could come up with $5k I have no clue. I guess they were replacing all the brake lines, master cylinder, power assist, etc. Sweet.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Oct 22, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
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Werner, Thanks :)
Jim, No, used with 75K miles. Probably wasn't driven hard before I got it. The miles after I got it included towing a fully loaded 20' enclosed toy hauler over the mountains to the desert dozens of times and countless miles of Baja dirt roads.
phylp, Here's an interesting read on transmission fluid flush vs. drop the pan. https://www.transmissionrepaircostguide.com/what-is-a-transmission-flush/
Now if they would just explain how a flush will change the filter (inside the pan), maybe I will go with the flush (not!).
John M, You busted me ;) Who else can blow up a rear diff on an E350?!
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
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I appreciate all the answers. This is really helpful.
Yes, about 70 percent of the time, it’s towing my Forrester, about 3500 lbs. RV weight is about 10,500 lbs.
I’m too tired to go out to the Garage to look at the manual, but I do recall it being a V10.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Oct 22, 2018 - 08:18pm PT
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phylp,
Your post is certainly not off-topic for ST. Good info here; maybe leave it up?
Yes, your transmission is getting a good workout. Maintain it well.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 22, 2018 - 08:25pm PT
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Definitely never let anyone hook up a tranny flushing machine to your vehicle. Drop the pan, drain from the bottom, replace the filter, refill from the top.
I personally change tranny fluid much more often than recommended. I’m a hard driver and often overloaded and in the mountains - and the veteran of many aftermarket tranny swaps.
Once your OE tranny goes - that’s it - all replacements are sh!t for any sum of money and will never last as long. They’re way too complicated with way too many high precision componants to perfectly rebuild.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 22, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
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It's an automobile made by Honda and I've paid to have the brakes done and done them myself.
I think the fluid was replaced once in 240,000 miles
Timing chains are very important
The Honda trans fluid change is a real treat
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 22, 2018 - 08:55pm PT
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How anyone could come up with $5k
not just brake work, he said they had all sorts of suspension work on it. Those estimates can be mind boggling, it is much more labor intensive than brake work. Shops get away with all sorts of nonsense in wealthy zip codes. I will try to get the estimate from him, but the guy has no reason to BS me about the repair estimate, unless he was lying to me in order to justify to his wife the offing of the vehicle so he could buy a Tesla (he does want one)
If I could get the estimate it would be fun to report them to the BAR.
Trivia - cost of an oil change on a Bugatti Veyron
$21,000, the engine is a dry sump system with 16 drain plugs, most are not easy to get to. Ya think they mark up the oil too? they recommend changing hte oil annually even if the car is not driven.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/bugatti-veyron-oil-change/
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 22, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
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I would go by the manual.
Because you tow the transmission fluid should be changed every 50,000 miles. Always double check your fluid level the next morning after it's been changed.
Most of my time (40years) in the auto industry was spent in the automatic transmission industry.
I'm a little old fashion, I like to drain fluids I change.
I would only change brake fluid if you are heating up your brakes & or working them hard on hot days.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 23, 2018 - 08:56am PT
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xCon that's just dumb.
I don't like over maintenance.
If you are going to skip on maintenance you had better damn well know what & why you are doing it.
She has a very nice piece of equipment & I would think she would like to keep it that way without being taken advantage of.
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James Wilcox
Trad climber
Goleta/Virginia Lakes
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Oct 23, 2018 - 09:08am PT
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Changing the coolant and servicing the transmission I'd agree with.
I'm not a fan of flushes. I never allowed those services when I ran a Toyota service dept. They're great for generating revenue but offer questionable cost/benefit to the consumer.
The idea behind changing oils and fluids on a set time or mileage schedule is you're replacing the fluid before it has started to deteriorate. When you change engine oil every 5,000 miles ideally the oil you remove hasn't degraded yet. Same with coolant and ATF.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 23, 2018 - 09:41am PT
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xCon hasn’t kept on his cerebrospinal fluid maintenance schedule.
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Urizen
Ice climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 23, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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I wouldn't be concerned about the brake fluid. Yes, it's hygroscopic. But you live in a pretty dry climate.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 23, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
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With modern brake fluid, the only real reason it would need changing is if it's exposed to extreme & prolonged heat.
I don't replace power steering fluid.
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10b4me
Social climber
Lida Junction
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Oct 23, 2018 - 03:01pm PT
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Oct 22, 2018 - 07:47pm PT
Came out with a 5,000 dollar estimate from Pepboys for a brake job like that.
I don't believe you .......
I am not saying I don't believe you. Isn't this the quote your friend got?
Even if they replaced the master cylinder, replaced the brake pads, and rotors, I can't see it being that much.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2018 - 04:29pm PT
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I looked everywhere for my manual before I posted this thread, and I couldn't find it anywhere, but it turns out, when I looked online again, Ford has an online service maintenance system. You plug in the year, make, model and how you use it (e.g towing), and the service intervals and recs pop up.
So I took my Ford in today for all those services I described above, plus oil change and air filter, plus smog check, and the estimate was very reasonable. It's my local Ford dealership.
I felt quite smart when I was able to say to the service rep "my mechanic friends told me to ask how you do the transmission fluid and to never let anyone do a flush". And he said, "Oh, no, we would never do a flush, there's all kinds of little particles that you can circulate everywhere and if you don't get them all out it can cause a lot of problems. We drain it, etc." He said the industry in general is moving away from flushes.
So thanks everyone! And Juan, I won't delete the thread.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 23, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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Good call on the brake fluid, IMO. It never fails - until it does. A ginormous RV towing a car demands a different level of care for the brake system. A boil-off in the mountains is a serious and real risk.
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Oct 23, 2018 - 05:51pm PT
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I understand why some people don’t agree with using a machine to flush an automatic transmission but my question is this: by dropping the pan, how does the fluid in the torque converter get changed? A typical converter holds almost as much fluid as you’ll find in the transmission itself. Unless you have an old-school trans with a dedicated drain plug for the converter, that fluid won’t get changed.
A normal tranny flusher will remove all the fluid from both the trans and converter. With the fluid removed, you can drop the pan and change the filter then pump fresh fluid into both.
Just sayin...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Oct 23, 2018 - 05:58pm PT
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It's my local Ford dealership.
I suppose folks get burned by dealerships. We sure hear enough about that. But I bought a 2009 Tacoma and have only had it taken care of at the dealership from day one, other than tires. Never buy tires from them.
Toyota has been fair, inexpensive, and honest. For example, I took it in recently because the A/C was getting weak. I waited about an hour, sitting at a nice desk with fresh coffee and wi-fi. The service guy came over and said the problem was an intermittent electrical connection, which made sense since sometimes it worked well and other times not. They fixed it no charge.
I was up in Fargo one time when it was due for service. They knew which service it was and exactly what to do. Too easy. My satisfaction with Toyota dealerships is 100%. Apparently Ford is cool too.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 23, 2018 - 06:03pm PT
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Then there was the time the dealer replaced the entire wiring harness.
I drove the car two blocks - same problem
Took it back
After further "analysis" turned out to be a cracked distributor cap
No adjustment
Volvo
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 23, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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Most torque converters have a drain plug, otherwise the service interval or some other special procedure in the manual accounts for it.
The problem with a flush is mostly in the technician connecting it backwards or to the wrong ports - which is well known to happen a lot. Instead of dirty out, it's dirty in.
Another problem is these days just about every maker's transmission require some voodoo special super expensive fluid - and you'd be best advised to use it. Jiffy lube probably doesn't sell it, and whatever is left from the last car that's still in that flushing machine probably isn't it either.
Most definitely drop the pan. More specifically, I always buy the OEM technician's manual for the vehicle and follow that. None of them are going to tell you to hook up a flushing machine.
Dealers - you're among the lucky if you have one that does good work and charges reasonably. I'm sure they exist, but I have yet to find one. I generally go there for parts and voodoo fluids, if I didn't have time to order off the net. No aftermarket rubbish.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Oct 23, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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The ford motorhome tranny should not need any service if your towing it with the subaru...
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 23, 2018 - 08:00pm PT
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And rot braindead Johny needs to have his dead brain fluids recycled .....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Oct 23, 2018 - 08:14pm PT
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They did that already with the alien anal intrusion...got 10% off with the coupon...
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 23, 2018 - 08:41pm PT
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The truth is that flushing does not remove most of the fluid in the converter. I'm not wasting time on a class in why but it does not. Flushing is important during a rebuild because we are worried about metal in the cooler lines & the cooler its self.
Modern Trans Fluid is lifetime except in heavy Duty or commercial duty units. The factories have figured this into a fluid change. If your fluid is burnt there is a reason & you need to deal with that problem.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 24, 2018 - 10:30am PT
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Smell test on t-fluid is good enough. There is a filter that will clog at at 200k miles, requires dropping the pan. A quick trick to check the internal condition of a tranny without dropping the pan is to pull the speed sensor (if it has one) It is magnetic and will show what metal is in your system. Very fine metal is normal, chunks is bad news.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 24, 2018 - 10:34am PT
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Smell test on t-fluid is good enough. Modern fluid doesn't have any organics in it, so smell won't tell you anything.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 24, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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Oh yes, it will.
What you would be smelling is burnt particles of clutch fiber & polyacrylic & or silicon high temp. seals of all types - metal clad - lathe cut(square cut) - o'ring(round).
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Oct 24, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
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It's hard to smell burnt tranny fluid after you've done a grrrrrr.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 24, 2018 - 06:46pm PT
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No, it's the worst smell in the world.
Never get burnt trany fluid on you.
A shower won't help.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Oct 24, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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Too late...I was tapping a tranny pan with a hammer and wooden block...i think it was the factory cork gasket...? the pan flew off dousing me with warm tranny fluid...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Oct 24, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
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You got dosed by a tranny?
My my.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Oct 24, 2018 - 06:56pm PT
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A strawberry shower...
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 24, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
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I’m not seeing it. I have to wonder even if you thought you were dealing with a fully synthetic transmission with a burning smell, it wasn’t really Dextron - because “Dextron works for everything”. You’d have to send it to a lab to tell.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
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Oct 25, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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ATF is highly corrosive to rubber it will destroy rubber o'rings & seals. At first, they swell up which doesn't do anything any good.
RJ, why the wood block. Take the hammer - smack the bolt hole directly with the head - repeat till all bolt holes are flat. One hit per hole.
In the old day's ships were made of wood and the men were made of iron, today the ships are made of iron & the men are blockheads.
Clean pan before working on it.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 15, 2019 - 09:25pm PT
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hey there, say...
ANYONE AROUND... that can help with this...
another question for a friend... for his daughter...
here it is:
Automotively inclined peeps:
The other night when pulling into North Muskegon, I started to hear a loud, crunching sound like I was dragging something under my truck. I pulled into a lot and looked underneath. Nothing. I couldn't see anything wrong. I got back in and it kept making the loud sound from under the front end. I pulled over again. I sat there for a second and decided to just take it to my apartment a block away, but the noise stopped.
I drove it around town today just fine. Headed back to YIP and at about Ann Arbor it started doing it again. I could feel something vibrate/smack in the floor and into the gas pedal. Again at the pad, I looked and nothing.
Driving performance is not affected and there are no alerts.
Anyone have any ideas?
i will check back...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 15, 2019 - 10:40pm PT
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hey there, say... she also says, this...
more of a crackling/crunchy knocking sound. It sounds like when you get a stick cought or something metal comes loose and drags on the ground.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Apr 15, 2019 - 10:44pm PT
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Front wheel drive?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 15, 2019 - 10:48pm PT
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hey there, say...
let me ask her ... just a sec...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 15, 2019 - 10:50pm PT
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hey there say, ...
she added this...
Trying to research, but I'm tired and need sleep.
Ball joint or sway bar, maybe?
Steering is not compromised, no difference in turning or handling, and happens at slow and fast speeds.
okay, and this:
2 wheel drive. Neither turns nor speed made a difference, other than being stopped.
she add, also:
no. It's a 2006 Chevy Silverado.
I'm going to sleep soon and can't do anything about it tonight anyway
another good taco guy, thought it might be struts...
me, i wondered if it was subframe, as, that happened to me, once...
:O
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 16, 2019 - 04:43am PT
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Really bad U-joint. Probably the first one in the driveshaft.
If they've got a go-pro it can really help determine where stuff like this is happening at speed.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 16, 2019 - 07:11am PT
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Definitely bearings somewhere. It sounds like it would be trivial for a mechanic to locate, no go-pro needed.
This is the type of problem that becomes more expensive every additional block you drive it. A driveshaft is relatively cheap to get repaired - a few hundred - but ignored it will blow out the seals and bushings in whatever it is attached to, making things considerably more expensive. Very bad to keep driving.
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Apr 16, 2019 - 09:25am PT
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The smell test can help tell you if a transmission is going or has gone south. Fluid from a bad tranny absolutely reeks.
In the mid 70’s I was changing the trans fluid on a Wagner loader. This thing was HUGE. There was a ladder that led to a deck that led to an elevated cab. It was designed for lifting a whole load of logs from a fully loaded log truck.
The bottom of the transmission probably 3’ to 4’ off the ground with the drain plug on the side near the bottom. I had a cut-in-half 55 gallon drum to drain the fluid into. With the pan below the drain, I loosened the plug with a 3/4 drive ratchet with a 4’ extension. When I got the plug broken loose I thought, hmmm, I better move the drain pan so the edge of the pan was in line with the edge of the tranny because the fluid was gonna come flying out. I had no idea just how far it would fly. I unscrewed the plug by hand and when it finally came off the ugly tranny fluid shot across the pan in a solid stream and hit me in the center of my chest.
I was doing this outside as there was no room in the shop. The guys in the shop laughed their asses off when I walked in dripping with warm ugly transmission fluid....
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Apr 16, 2019 - 09:27am PT
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Nothing compares to the stench of GL-5 Differential gear oil.... Used or fresh it stains your soul.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 16, 2019 - 10:59am PT
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If it says Triton on the outside it's a V-10 on the inside...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 16, 2019 - 09:50pm PT
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hey there, say, fear, JLP, mastadon, and ksolem...
wow, say, THANKS so very very much!!
(i like that SMELL test, mastondon... will remember that)...
well, turned out, she finally GOT into to someone...
it was THE WHEEL BEARING...
*WAS trying to help her get through the night, as this was really bothering her and she had a long trip to make the next day...
she IS working on it...
thank you all!!!
this is a GREAT thread...
thanks for all of you chipping in...
happy good eve, and god bless!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 16, 2019 - 10:17pm PT
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There is a 4.6 and 5.4 V8 Triton
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 17, 2019 - 12:47am PT
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Corrected am I...
;-)
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