Discussion Topic |
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 17, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
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https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/09/teens-think-they-shouldnt-have-to-speak-in-front-of-the-class/570061/
I'm biased because I did well in these and even won local speech competitions and earned scholarships in part from speaking skills. So I acknowledge a bit of a blind spot in terms of my empathy.
But really? Does it serve our nation to continue watering down standards, to continue removing stresses from kids? There already seems to be a trend where young people raised on smartphones are uncomfortable looking people in the eye when they talk. Should we add grease to the slippery slope of physical disconnection, because kids don't feel comfortable doing it? Is it a parental failure to let kids grow up with this disability, or is it a logical and unavoidable consequence of a smartphone-immersed culture?
Seems to me that the more adults cave in to children's wants (without recognizing the healthy discomfort that leads to children increasing their capacity to handle different situations), the battle lines keep getting redrawn to more and more ridiculous positions. On the other hand, with more and more people buying into this "avoid children discomfort" mindset, those who try to instill reasonable values in their kids start to look like monsters, and it alters the perceptions and receptivity of the kids to positive instruction.
Discuss amongst yourselves...
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Sep 17, 2018 - 04:59pm PT
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Comfortizing,
Doninni's term applies here equally...
does nanny state come to mind??
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Sep 17, 2018 - 05:03pm PT
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"“Nobody should be forced to do something that makes them uncomfortable,” says Ula, a 14-year-old in eighth grade, . . ."
Next phase: No more tests. No more grades.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 17, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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I'm pretty disappointed with our young people; poorly educated, they hasten the decline of our mess of a country.
Public speaking is a skill everyone should have (along with the ability to cook an omelette, dress a wound, write a sonnet, unload a weapon, sharpen a knife, give orders, take orders, write a balance sheet, belay yourself, ride a horse, track at night, fight a fire, do trig in your head, maintain a compass course, etc. etc. etc.)
"Specialization is for insects" Lazarus Long
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 17, 2018 - 05:45pm PT
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I second Toker. ‘Education’ now seems all about not making anybody feel bad. And this feeds right into ‘comfortizing’ routes!
HARDEN THE PHUK UP YOU LITTLE LOOZERS! LIFE AIN’T A GIMME!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Sep 17, 2018 - 05:47pm PT
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Don't forget knowing how to swim. That's an important survival skill.
As for being unable to deal with problems, these snowflakes are primarily from the white middle class as far as I can see. Motivated kids from the lower classes and enterprising immigrants are doing fine. Of course that's what the white middle and lower classes are afraid of. They don't want to compete and soon they won't be able to. Having lived in East Asia, I can assure they have no idea what they're up against.
On the bright side, we still have a huge country with many resources and can live better than most even if we do sink somewhat.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 17, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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Just too traumatic to do their thing in front of class, but at the same time they're begging for subs on their YouTube channel.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Sep 17, 2018 - 06:03pm PT
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I attended an oddball college where the only required classes were english comp and public speaking.
These were the two most rewarding classes I had.. I only wish I would have worked (been worked) harder on the first one. There is nothing more challenging and exhilarating than speaking in front of your peers.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Sep 17, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
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would somebody please think to blame the children?
it's certainly not possible that adults are to blame for any or all of this eh?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Sep 17, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
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Looks to me like a couple of folks here should get off the snowflake bandwagon and focus on their own critical thinking skills. The article cites some teenage tweets and an education professional that says maybe an alternative should be provided in cases where the student has a diagnosed disorder.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2018 - 11:44pm PT
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I wonder if inability to overcome adversity is itself a disorder, or just a type of conditioning that requires practice and some kids are raised in a way where they don’t get enough practice. And so when they face some personal challenge that requires the ability to overcome adversity, instead of rising up, our current society gives a new label to diagnose their excuse for not overcoming adversity.
I think the main reason is our society is converging on a shared idea that the goal of life is to be happy. And many people, instead of digging deep to understand what are the real and sustainable things that lead to this state in an individual and a society, they look for short-cuts and immediate results and superficial measures to imitate happiness. It is fundamentally the lack of trust to subordinate short-term feelings or impulses to a longer objective with a better overall outcome. The cost-benefit doesn’t seem worth it if your past experience shows you can’t trust receiving a future payoff.
The marshmallow experiment. What an awesome (in the literal rather than slang sense) responsibility that parents are charged with, to be reliable and consistent, to build trust in kids so that they can trust a future outcome, that it is worth investing in that better outcome rather than taking the cheap and easy quick fix. It is easy to see it as kids being lazy, but it is less comfortable to acknowledge how perfectly logical is the response, given the set of life experiences with which they have been programmed.
Schools can’t consistently fix this- it is fundamental programming that is hard-coded at a deeper level than memorizing multiplication tables. It takes a mind-blowing amount of work to change deeply ingrained patterns... almost as much as say raising a child in a healthy way.
I wonder what the current state-of-the-art parenting books say on the topic.
G’night all.
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Degaine
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 02:22am PT
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An article like that seems to be written about every 5-10 or so years. Take out the references to social media references, and I would have felt like I was reading an article that was published in 1989, or 1995, or 2001, etc.
It seemed almost as cliché as this statement:
Toker Villain wrote:
I'm pretty disappointed with our young people; poorly educated, they hasten the decline of our mess of a country.
Yeah, dude, what generation of adults isn't disappointed with "our young people." How did you react when your parents Ward and June said the exact same thing?
That written, if you push the fluff in the article aside, there are a few good points about applying a teaching style that works best with the student you have in front of you. Not an easy task at hand, but if the goal is for all students to learn a given subject/technique, then changing styles for those at either end of the bell curve seems appropriate.
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Degaine
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 02:35am PT
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jogill wrote:
Next phase: No more tests. No more grades.
When learning something, evaluation is a good thing, but I'm not for or against grades per se.
I remember reading / listening to something Malcolm Gladwell wrote (or maybe it was a This American Life podcast) regarding the negative effect of making grades the end game or telling kids how smart they are (if they are smart), and that teachers and parents would be better off teaching kids how to work hard and solve problems than focusing on a given grade on a given test for a given class.
Cheating, in my opinion, is a result of focusing too much on grades, where we should focus on mastery of a subject (or at least the fundamentals: reading, writing, and math) before sending a student on to the next level.
While there is certainly a correlation between good grades in high school+college and job success, there is not necessarily a causation. I know plenty of people who were middle of the road in high school and who are now considered the top experts in their field. Smart people for whom grades and end did not interest them, but once on the job, a passion the chemistry (mining, construction, toxic waste remediation) grew.
Anyway.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 18, 2018 - 05:12am PT
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As long as the speaker's podium isn't bolted I'm good with it.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Sep 18, 2018 - 06:54am PT
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How can they accept the trophy they didn't earn?
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Sep 18, 2018 - 07:02am PT
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"You! Yes, you! Stand still laddy
When we grew up and went to school
There were certain teachers who would
Hurt the children any way they could
By pouring their derision
Upon anything we did
Exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the kids
But in the town it was well known
When they got home at night, their fat and
Psychopathic wives would thrash them
Within inches of their lives"
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Trump
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 07:18am PT
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I’m pretty disappointed with other people. Most of the sh#t they do is ridiculous!. Why can’t they be reasonable, like me?
Repeat and rinse. Eventually we’ll die and reality will continue along its ridiculous unreasonable path, with others taking up our “other people are disappointing ridiculous and unreasonable” thought processes, just in a slightly different environment.
In my kids elementary school, they give them options, including videotaping it, or just presenting to the teacher. Elementary school.
Kids these days are too soft. Nothing like the remembered threat of being enslaved to set our priorities straight, if that’s something we tough guys can remember. Heck, I went to an Ivy League school, I don’t see why everyone else can’t do that.
What’s the matter with kids these days? Why can’t they just take opioids, like everyone else is doing? Stress?! Pffft!
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Sep 18, 2018 - 07:22am PT
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WWife tells me that Texas is dropping the inspirational teaching that is the story of perseverance to overcome great odds, Hellen Kellar, is being dropped from the elementary schools.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 07:24am PT
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Next phase: No more tests. No more grades.
No more life, actually. When is life ever completely comfortable?
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okay, whatever
climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 07:55am PT
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I was talked into taking debate class (and hence being on the interscholastic debate team) by my high school counselor way back when in 1970, and while I was reluctant, I did it. It turned out to be one of the BEST experiences of my high school education. Obviously, formal debating requires one to have done research, organized that research, and then be capable of presenting it coherently. My debate partner and I took third in the Kansas state 5A (big high school, 2000 students or so) debate finals when I was a senior. The public speaking ability and confidence that engendered in me has proved beneficial in all the years since. I know public speaking is not everyone's cup of tea, but I DO think it's a worthwhile thing to learn as a young person, if you can manage it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 18, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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Actually, Degaine, my siblings and I were high achievers and our parents were anything but Ward and June.
I would like nothing more than to be optimistic about young people, but I make my living by investing in the future and if I was bad at it I wouldn't.
Even if they WERE a highly promising generation they are inheriting a damaged biosphere that may have already passed a tipping point. If that is the case then people arguing about immigration, or assault weapons, or requirements in our schools are just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 12:17pm PT
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Next phase: No more tests. No more grades.
Sounds like the decades-long, taxpayer-funded, failed experiment at The Evergreen State College here in Washington State.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 18, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
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Regardless of their public speaking skills the young today better like living in their Sprinter vans in their dotage cause studies show they’re not investing for their retirement.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Sep 18, 2018 - 08:43pm PT
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Two well known climbers were on the faculty of Evergreen: Pete Sinclair (Prof of English) and Willi Unsoeld (Dean of Faculty). Both gone.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Sep 18, 2018 - 09:55pm PT
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Like teaching that young girl to stand in front of an Israeli bulldozer?
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 19, 2018 - 10:02am PT
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I'm pretty disappointed with our young people; poorly educated, they hasten the decline of our mess of a country.
And who gave them that poor education? Did eight year olds wake up one day and decide, "I want to be poorly educated?"
Did eight year olds decide, I want helicopter parents?
Did eight year olds decide, I want to be the most narcissistic generation since researchers started measuring that?
Me, I'm really pretty disappointed with the parents.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Sep 19, 2018 - 11:31am PT
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It's the parents.
Part of the problem is that so many kids are getting raised in divorced situations where the parents carry a strong sense of guilt, or what they could have done better for their kids.
Then they coddle their kids out of a sense of guilt, and a desire to not have them go through more unpleasant experiences, and then the ultimate expression of that are the kids are freak out when they are forced out of their comfort level.
And it's not just legal minors. I see plenty of youngish folks who are overly sensitive, overly ready to be offended, overly entitled up to about the age of 30ish.
This is not a new phenonena, nor does it exist in poor countries where the harsh realities of life are so in your face, that the desire to never be out of one's comfort level is simply not realistic.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 19, 2018 - 11:35am PT
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The role of public education is to provide opportunity, not force it.
Strong students want a challenge and will find it regardless. They sign up for harder classes, do the extra credit then enroll in the best college they can get in to.
IMO, who really cares what the weak ones are complaining about, they'll eventually settle into a job wiping butt either way. We need butt wipers too. Why make it harder on them?
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 19, 2018 - 11:39am PT
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I find this strange, as most of these kids would not hesitate to make a fool out of themselves on social media in front of the WORLD, but skeeert and intimidated by a presentation amongst their peers. In the article, there was the complaint about time for sports, etc. I think these fools should get their priorities straight; in the long-run will their kid be in the NFL draft, or more likely to be pushing new ideas to the boss or whatever.
There is this one coworker that was terrified about doing a presentation. Having done many, I just told her to look around the room, right above their heads, and they may never know if you goof, only YOU will. They have NO idea what your going to say, so don’t obsess about it; own it.
 ec
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 19, 2018 - 11:55am PT
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I told my nephew that I would contribute to the 529 plan for his kids if they got a good STEM education.
I said they don't HAVE to pursue careers in science, technology, engineering or math, but it had to be in their toolbox, because the only way that humans are going to escape their own destruction is by inventing their way out of it
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Sep 19, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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The torch has already been passed to Asia. China and India alone represent over half the world's population. Europe and the U.S. together only represent 8-10%. The wonder is that so few were able to dominate so many for so long. The era that began with Christopher Columbus is over.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 19, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
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And, Jan, I’m sure you will agree, that other 92% aren’t sending their kids to college to get degrees in gender studies or, in the case of a niece, a masters in how to run a dorm? Are you kidding me? All you need to run a good dorm is a high school grad E-6!
“Welcome, new students! This is your new dorm.
Any questions or problems you can take to Mr R. Lee Ermey.”
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 19, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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Most people can't present for sh#t.
LoL, I got ‘passed-up’ for a position where I work...they hired the guy from the ‘outside’ mainly because he was an ‘aquaintence’ of a senior manager. The guy couldn’t even adequately set-up a presentation on ‘Slide Show for Dummies’ (PowerPoint), then he did not know how to run it as a ‘slide show’ and had to present it off of the screen with the Menu Bar, etc., in full view. Then, he could never stay on topic. He was one of those who’d rather tell others how great he was in his ‘past life’.
ec
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Sep 19, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
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It seems this site is mostly populated by fiction readers but nonetheless a couple here might find these pertinent to the thread topic...
Trigger warning: They are non-fiction...
1. The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure, Jonathan Haidt (Sept, 2018)
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE5qXeb2U5c
[Click to View YouTube Video]
"When heaven is about to confer a great responsibility on any man it will exercise his mind with suffering, subject his sinews and bones to hard work, expose his body to hunger, put him to poverty, place obstacles in the path of his deeds so as to stimulate his mind, harden his nature, and improve wherever he is incompetent." Mencius
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 19, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
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Students who support abolishing in-class presentations argue that forcing students with anxiety to present in front of their peers is not only unfair because they are bound to underperform and receive a lower grade, but it can also cause long-term stress and harm.
A person is certainly gonna underperform something at some point...that’s part of life, but not the end of the world.
Stating outright that one is bound to underperform is a defeatist attitude. Presentations take practice to perfect, so maybe the school should approach it differently where possibly it could be more ‘fun’ (interactive, require some audience participation), or team in pairs and make it less daunting.
ec
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 19, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
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The torch has already been passed to Asia. China and India alone represent over half the world's population. Europe and the U.S. together only represent 8-10%. The wonder is that so few were able to dominate so many for so long. The era that began with Christopher Columbus is over.
Rome didn't fall in a day.
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 19, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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‘got the wrong thread, man
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Trump
climber
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Sep 19, 2018 - 09:27pm PT
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Me, I'm really pretty disappointed with the parents.
Me, I’m really pretty disappointed with the parents’ parents.
And if you care to work it back far enough, I think you’re gonna find that what you are is just disappointed about all that sh#t that’s happened in the last 4 billion years, and here we and those damn kids and their damn parents are to show for it.
And if that’s what ya wanna be, cool.
But if not .. maybe we could learn something from the kids, and try thinking a little differently, if we can.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Sep 19, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
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Forgive me not reading all of this thread, but having watched my retired wife mentor teens in Accounting, I am not surprised of their lack of interest in speaking aloud.
Which is not to say they no longer communicate.
Every week, I watch kids converse with one another through texts, Snaps, Tweets and Instagrams - all while sitting at the same table with one another. No verbal sound is uttered, but there is no denying a conversation occurred.
These are digital babies, born into a world of handhelds and smartphones. My 4 year old Grandson was holding a iPad at six months. I actually had one 12 year old tell me that talking was "soooo analog".
Strange new world a'coming.
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Trump
climber
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Sep 19, 2018 - 10:04pm PT
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Too true. I blame rock n roll. I’m tired of blaming Obama, and thought I’d try something new.
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 19, 2018 - 10:04pm PT
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That world has been here; couples at a nice restaurant, each engrossed in their separate phones.
There was a couple with a child in a place I used to go to for lunch. ‘Kid (5y/o) with a video game on a cellphone blaring. The other peeps and staff there were all visibly annoyed. The staff didn’t have the balls to do anything. When I asked nicely for the volume to be turned down, both parents looked at me and cussed me out (think of the parents at the end of ‘The Graduate’). The father actually wanted to square-off. I merely told them loudly and clearly, “YOU OUGHT TO TRY ACTUALLY PARENTING FOR ONCE, INSTEAD OF HAVING YOUR KID PLAYING GAMES.”
“I’ll take my order to go, please.”
Edit: they actually turned that sh!t off...
ec
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Sep 19, 2018 - 10:12pm PT
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These are digital babies, born into a world of handhelds and smartphones.
I don't understand why teachers/schools don't have the power to completely ban these devices/distractions on campus.
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Trump
climber
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Sep 20, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
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I blame their crap (in this regards) teachers
It’s not the teachers’ fault that they do a poor job giving presentations, it’s the teacher’s teacher’s fault? Who taught the teacher’s teachers to teach the teachers to teach? Was that the fault of the teacher’s teacher’s teacher?
I sure hope I’m not to blame.
I sure would like one of those newfangled topo cheat sheets to help me know what gear to bring though, and to pay for a space where I can muse about which other people are to blame for things not being the way I prefer them to be.
Go back far enough and maybe we’ll find some fault with amino acids.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 20, 2018 - 01:24pm PT
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Me, I’m really pretty disappointed with the parents’ parents.
Sure, and nothing happens in isolation and most parents mean for their children to do well.
But the parents' parents didn't helicopter their kids. That is fairly recent.
But I realize it is also hard to buck the trend and go against social expectations. A co-worker of mine left his two kids at the park (in a very low-crime suburban neighborhood) about 15 minutes before his wife got there. I wish I could remember the exact ages, but it was like 10 and 8.
Somebody called the cops on the unattended kids. The fact that the cops got there before the wife just shows that the cops had nothing better to do on a quiet afternoon in suburbia.
And the cops said if it happened again they would take the kids into custody.
I wonder if they post a notice somewhere saying how old you have to be before you can be left unattended in a super low-crime environment. 18?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 20, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
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I tell you i don't get no respect...My mom left me at the park...Somebody called animal control...
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Trump
climber
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Sep 21, 2018 - 10:31am PT
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But the parents' parents didn't helicopter their kids.
True enough.
What the parents’ parents did was they raised kids who grew up to be helicopter parents. The parents’ parents were crappy parents who did a sh#tty job raising their kids to be good parents, and the result is that now we have all these sh#tty parents out there raising this self-indulged crappy generation of kids.
And sh#tty citizens. Those crappy parents’ parents raised kids who grew up into adults who created a society in which you can’t leave your kids at the park for 15 minutes unattended.
Now our problem is that this batch of sh#tty parents are doing a sh#tty job raising kids who can give presentations, or who even feel like they should be made to do presentations at all.
We can go back as far as we want complaining about what a sh#tty job those other people did, if that’s what we want to do.
“I’m prettty disappointed with our young people.”
“these snowflakes”
“That’s the weakness of liberals”
“I’m really pretty disappointed with the parents”
“Teachers did a poor job”
The one thing that doesn’t seem to change is people complaining about what a sh#tty job other people do.
If we live in a reality where it takes a masters degree to get a job running a dorm, I’m gonna encourage my kids to do what it takes to thrive in the reality they actually live in, rather than in the hypothetical reality we create in our heads where it only takes a GED.
we still .. can live better than most even if we do sink ..
Yea. In retrospect we might say the same thing about humans sometime in the not too distant future.
But look, they’re doing what we want to do over there in their different environment. We can just do in our environment the thing that they’re doing in their different environment.
Reality seems to be arguing otherwise.
Fortunately for us though, we’ve got this awesome evolutionary advantage of not being constrained to believing reality! Well, awesome as long as youre not one of those sh#try other people who support me.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 21, 2018 - 12:53pm PT
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RJ, my dad took me to the zoo.
They thanked him for returning me.
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Trump
climber
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Sep 21, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
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Rather than focusing on what is wrong or complaining about others ..
What would that look like, in other people?
Would it look like them portraying other people and their ideas and perspectives and beliefs and behaviors in positive uplifting terms like
“watering down standard”
“parental failure”
“disability”
“cave in”
“ridiculous positions”
“monsters”
“disorder”
“excuse”
“instead of digging deep”
“short-cuts”
“superficial”
“imitate happiness”
And humbly portraying ourselves and our positions and our beliefs with negative disparaging terms like:
“healthy discomfort”
“reasonable values”
“positive instruction”
“real and sustainable things that lead to happiness”
“better outcome”
“raising a child in a healthy way”
How would you do that, if you wanted to have a shared solution where we value everyone’s positions? How would you say and think things in a way that wasn’t “yea me and what I think boo you and what you think”?
What is the process that is going to create our future reality? Is it the same process that has created our current reality? That process seems to have involved everyone saying and thinking “me me me me I’m great what I think is right other people are wrong.” Are we going to try to change that process, or are we just going to continue with our same ole yea me and my reasonable healthy thinking processes? Are we even going to notice that in ourselves?
I wonder what the current state-of-the-art parenting books say
Reality as it currently exists is the definitive state of the art. If we want to believe that our awesome hypothetical beliefs about how reality SHOULD be are righter than how reality actually IS, we can join all the other humans who believe that they’re not saying “yea me boo you” and are just trying to objectively understand reality.
The collective wisdom of all the king’s horses and all the king’s men is what has created the reality that we currently live in. We’d probably be well served to consider that when predicting the future effects of our collective wisdom, and congratulating ourselves in advance for how wise our current hypothetical thoughts turned out to be in the future.
Maybe those parents’ parents’ strategy of requiring students to make in class presentations didn’t work out as well in producing the current crop of ridiculous superficial failure parents as we’d like to believe that their strategy will in the future, now that we’re adopting it as our own healthy reasonable better sustainable positive dig-deep strategy of requiring students to make in class presentations.
But don’t be too eager to jettison your me me me mindset, or you might discover, too late, that it was one of the things keeping you alive.
Best to all you misguided sh#tty parents, and the rest!
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Sep 21, 2018 - 04:57pm PT
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I'm all for presentations. I'm VERY lukewarm about group work. Way too often I saw one or two students carrying all the weight. The shy ones, the dullards, the lazy would just sit there and let the go-getters git 'er done.
Overall, students, hell, all of us, need to be pushed more. I knew going through school that I was rarely pushed to what I was capable of doing. As a result, when I became a teacher, I changed that for my student. As a result, I had lots and lots of dropped students, D's and F's. Ah, good times.
BAd
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 21, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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Jeezus, Jim, I’d lay large money that Bad was an excellent teacher.
My all time fave teach announced to the class one day:
“Reilly, when you breathe you make too much noise!”
He was so right! Of course he was commenting on my propensity for a continuous
stream of consciousness presentation all period.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
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Hi Trump, I think you have firmly made the case that my manner of exposition and the care with which I select my words varies. Sometimes I'm in the mood to try to make the world a better place, and sometimes I'm just burning a few minutes between other things and spitting out a stream of consciousness. But the point you draw into focus is my implicit bias, the greater respect and deference I confer to my own perspective. Of course, because from my perspective, it's the best one! ;) AS for my logical inconsistency or pivoting from apparent attacker to peace-maker, well you got me there.
I try to forgive myself for not rising up to my ideals, and I do like to become aware of the filters that color my perceptions. Now that we have established that, what is your perspective on the issue rather than your perspective on my perspective?
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Sep 22, 2018 - 06:42am PT
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Yeah, Jeez, Jim. Chill out! I worked at the community college level in a pretty hardscrabble area. I did my damned best to get my charges to where they needed to be, but I found that a huge percentage were not up to the task. To give you an idea of why I throw around sarcasm, in my remedial level course one step below transfer comp, I'd typically assign a one page editorial as a prompt for an essay, usually something provocative like 1st or 4th Amendment stuff. It was COMMON to have one third to one half of the students not bother to read and annotate the work. A quick read would take a few minutes. A very careful read with annotations might take thirty minutes. I had similar problems with other weekly exercises. I tell you, man, that kind of apathy starts to deaden your soul. Yeah, there are usually the few who get what you're doing, and a good day in the classroom was awesome! But after nearly thirty years beating my head against the wall, I started to lose my enthusiasm for the slog. However, I never let my standards slip. I wanted passing my class to mean something. Oh, here's another fun fact: California, after a few years of so many students failing, has quietly dropped it's "high school" 8th grade level English proficiency exit exam! We dropped the math one, too, but I'm unsure as to what actual level of mathematics was tested there.
As a good friend and colleague once said: If you want a career where you're faced more often with failure than success, try teaching!
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Sep 22, 2018 - 07:31am PT
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Thanks, Jim. Class dismissed!
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