People like this give Meth Heads a bad name. Trail cam pics

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couchmaster

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 9, 2018 - 10:20am PT


I f*#king hate thieves. In case you wonder who's been vandalizing your cars at trailheads.


Photo of one :


"The man was identified as a well-known skier named Andrew McLean. As for the woman -- she’s the Park City assistant city attorney, Polly Samuels McLean."


https://fox13now.com/2018/09/08/park-city-employee-faces-felony-charges-for-allegedly-stealing-hunters-equipment/

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_US/athlete-bio-andrew-mclean.html
"Career Highlights: As a Product Designer by profession, I was an in-house designer at Black Diamond for 13 years, where I designed the first wiregate carabiner for climbing (HotWire), Single Stem Camalots, Peckers, Talons, crampons, ice axes and skiing accessories, including a personal favorite, the Whippet Self Arrest ski pole. Through my interest in skiing and climbing, I got into ski mountaineering, and especially steep, technical couloirs. "
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:31am PT
Perhaps these are personal stands against hunting, anonymous ways of escalating a fight against something they disagree with.

I would be disinclined to think these people would also vandalize cars, but who knows. If I were a cop, I certainly would not end my search for car vandals. I just perceive different motives here. In any case, stealing stuff is not ok with me. But this could be argued as removing trash in a nature area?
xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:31am PT
cleaning up after thoughtless hunters is now vandalism?
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:36am PT
Assuming it's public land, locking manufactured equipment to a tree is a "fixed installation." Removal of said infrastructure is a public service.

What Andrew and his wife did with the equipment will likely prove crucial.

DMT
mastadon

Trad climber
crack addict
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:39am PT
Scary people everywhere..

http://methowvalleynews.com/2018/07/06/three-arrested-in-connection-with-trailhead-vehicle-break-ins/
Trump

climber
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:45am PT
It’s either legal or illegal according to what the law says. If it’s illegal then it’s illegal. I’m guessing it’s probably illegal.

As far as the morality of it goes, I like the hunter who says “I think they felt that .. we’re out there just basically murdering animals, and we’re not.”

Ok, sorry mr hunter that they misunderstood your correct understanding of morality. Unfortunately, we don’t get to tell other people what their morality is. Well, we righteous folks like to do that anyway.

That said, I wouldn’t like it if I was an immoral hunter and it happened to me, either. But I wouldn’t steal their stuff either.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:57am PT
Taking abandoned property and keeping it is not legal in a NP(United States v. Chongo), you have to turn the property over to the government. Not sure if that law that extends to all public lands.

Pretty sure they are not tweakers
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:58am PT
But is it abandoned?

Locking and putting up cameras says no.

but I bet that leaving that gear there is legal in that particular jurisdiction, else the hunters would be charged.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:01am PT
I would hope these tree stands would be illegal.
It's not private land, where automated cheating hunt methods are common.

Even if the tree stands and cameras are legal, they could be like bolts: it's legal to install them, and it's legal to remove them.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:06am PT
If it was abandoned gear, whynhell put a chain on it? Get real!

When was the last time you heard about stolen fixed ropes?

Same unspoken message applies..."Not yours!"

The cam was a good insurance policy, IMO.

But the alleged thieves ought to have boosted that, too.

Stupidity often travels with cupidity.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:13am PT
Sucks.... They both made a mistake and got caught. Hopefully with clean records and full financial restitution for the hunters, they can get some kind of AR and avoid felony convictions. My $$$$ would be on a few hundred hours of community service and 2yrs probation upon which their records will be expunged.

I get it... they're trying to make a point against hunters. Unfortunately destroying property isn't the way to do that. Perhaps a better way would be to 'hike' in the vicinity with bear bells jingling while the hunters are treed. There are cameras everywhere now.... remember that!
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:13am PT
Read the article, Mouse. They took the cam that was at the site, but did not see the cams that were down the trail.

You can bet she will lose her job regardless.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:24am PT
Oh. My bad.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:27am PT
I find it hard to believe he was stealing.

McLean is well known in the climbing community. He's been around forever and has given a lot.

WTF is a non hunting couple with their income going to do with a fricken tree stand anyway?

It's far more likely that he doesn't like hunters and them leaving their sh!t all over the woods.

We'll see how the story turns out. My guess is he thinks he's in the right at some level.

Cops are typically uneducated morons. Reporting he was arrested doesn't conclude the story.
SilverSnurfer

Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:28am PT
I could tag a dozen or more treestands that I've run across in the Wasatch backcountry over the last 20 years. Most I only saw because I travel more in the winter when the foliage is thinner-I'm sure that I've missed many more than I've seen in my travels in the area. 99% of the hikers will miss them completely.


As to felony theft-oh well,"do the crime, do the time" as they say.

The rich irony of climbers complaining about another user group leaving equipment in place is entertaining for a minute or so at least.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:35am PT
From the BLM

https://www.blm.gov/download/file/fid/2077

• Use the designated spots for your tent, trailer and other gear. If you leave personal
property unattended for more than 24 hours in a day-use area, or 3 days in other areas, it
may be considered abandoned and disposed of by BLM.

BLM does not make an exception for locked gear.
Jim Clipper

climber
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:43am PT
Seem like smart people. Something tells me that they may be fully aware of the law. Precedents? Exceptions? Way out of my league. Hope they get good representation if necessary.
Juan Maderita

Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:52am PT
https://www.parkrecord.com/news/park-city-attorney-skier-husband-arrested-as-hunting-equipment-taken/
Sewellymon

climber
.....in a single wide......
Sep 9, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
Whoa. This is going to be a sh*tstorm.

SilverSnurfer

Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
Sep 9, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
//• Use the designated spots for your tent, trailer and other gear. If you leave personal
property unattended for more than 24 hours in a day-use area, or 3 days in other areas, it
may be considered abandoned and disposed of by BLM.//

I'm not sure of the status of the land they were on in this case. However-it's worth reading the above and noting "may be" and "disposed of by the BLM".
Unattended property may in fact be allowed by precedent and "Finders Keepers" mostly doesn't apply. ;)

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 9, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
Another witch hunt...disgraceful that hunters have accused the McLeans...the videos are fake...
SilverSnurfer

Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
Sep 9, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
Credit: SilverSnurfer

Kids take heed, this is why we just say a bigly NO to meth..
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 9, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
Wooders rule , hunters suck...
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Sep 9, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
Here is an example of a typical national forest order allowing temporary hunting stands / treestands

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd542748.pdf

Temporary stands and cameras are legal.
Must be marked with identifying information.
Must be removed within 1-2 weeks of hunting season.
Must not cut any branches or penetrate the bark, or use any nails or bolts.
No offroading.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Sep 9, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
Hah. Pretty funny getting busted by the missed cam. Looks like a "statement" against hunting? The stands and cams are are a pretty lame way to hunt, IMHO. But if it's legal, those two got some splanin' to do.

To stir the pot: For those who think it's okay that the hunting gear was taken because, well, hunting is evil, would it be okay for nature lovers who want to enjoy the beautiful rocks of almost any cragging area to remove anchors, draws, bolts, etc? After all, these are permanent eyesores, right?

Chode for thought.

BAd
Jim Clipper

climber
Sep 9, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
Hope I'm not assuming the best. Still, maybe they wanted a tree house for the grandkids.

Would a tree stand make a good platform for high lines? High lining during deer season?

Will hunters be pissed?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 9, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
Maybe the McLeans thought they were preventing poaching...?
Trump

climber
Sep 9, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
I’m pretty confident that if we just think our own thoughts hard enough that we’ll be able to tell what they were thinking and what the results of the case will be. Let’s try.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 9, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
High on assumption and short on facts - rules from Pennsylvania, BLM and the USFS mean zero if you don't know where this even happened.

I have to say - they interviewed the owners in one of those links above - and maybe if there was a full set of teeth and a brain cell between them - I too wouldn't feel compelled to vandalize their vehicles.

More will come out over the week, for sure.
xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 9, 2018 - 04:43pm PT
have they issued any statement?
tradryan

Big Wall climber
San Diego
Sep 9, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
Wow, didn't expect to see that. That sucks! Andrew is a really nice guy... hope it works out. I'm guessing he just doesn't like hunters...
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Sep 9, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
Ugh.

I find tree stands and chat with bow hunters all the time (especially now...as 'tis the season).

Ran into a feller above Alta a short while ago. Full camo. Bow. Nice guy. Asked him how he did...he laughed and said based on his empty pack? Showed me a pic of a bud that had gotten a nice buck. A few days later, at my favorite Greek take out, the owner and I are chattin' about hunting. He mentions the nice buck that I'd seen a pic of. Small world. Or, given how close the Wasatch is to town, maybe not so small.

UAFC party this week. I'm sure this'll have traction there.

Shitty deal.
m.

Trad climber
UT
Sep 9, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
I’ve known Andrew McLean for decades. He is a fine, fine person, a committed environmentalist, and a mighty contributor to the climbing and skiing communities. Total integrity. You can’t find a person who’s more fun to share a single malt with on a cold night. I support Andrew 100%.
Cheers,
mc.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 9, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
Somebody stole some meth?

More power to them as long as they didn't dump it in a waterway that flows into the Pacific
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 9, 2018 - 09:11pm PT
LMAO....
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Sep 9, 2018 - 09:32pm PT
Be interesting to see how this goes. The area in question is near the top of I-80 between SLC and Park City, so not the remote backwoods. And there are a lot of deer, elk and moose in the area.
The Park Record article quoted the hunter as saying the tree stands had been there for a month with no problem...that's a pretty long time to leave one up.
One of the other articles mentioned vandalism of hunters trucks. Whatever Maclean's intentions were in doing this, I can't see him doing that. And given his wife is an attorney, you wouldn't think they would have done this without looking into the law.

It will be interesting to see how this goes.
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Sep 9, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
Hunting is bad, factory farmed meat is good! (Sarcasm)

I was going to get my license this year, but a fire on my property kinda threw a wrench in the gears. Burned up my 30-30!

Vandalizing hunters trucks is silly. Those hicks are armed!
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 9, 2018 - 09:54pm PT
There’s something else going on for the hunters to be getting a lot of resistance. Most people get hunting. I don’t think any sane adult is up there vandalizing vehicles because they are worried about “murdering animals”.

I really didn’t like the look or attitude of the tree stand owners there on prime time news. Smug - way too smug. They’ll get theirs if they have it coming.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:07pm PT
This has been the talk of the town...

https://patch.com/washington/across-wa/wash-man-sexually-assaults-beaver-while-high-meth
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Sep 9, 2018 - 10:09pm PT
I agree, dude looks like a doosh. Most people are.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 9, 2018 - 11:48pm PT
And given his wife is an attorney, you wouldn't think they would have done this without looking into the law.

That’s a pretty naive assumption! What? A lawyer did something against the law?
Just ask Don Corleone.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 10, 2018 - 06:22am PT
.....looking into the law......

She already looked into the law... looking into the camera is what ended up with a felony arrest.

Depends on the prosecutor, hopefully she has friends there. Assuming no other offenses they'll both get a slap on the wrist and be off back to hiking without bolt cutters.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 10, 2018 - 06:32am PT
Her worry will be her ticket to practice law. She will get a suspension.

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/21/fashion/weddings/21union.html
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Sep 10, 2018 - 07:42am PT
SRB's story above about "man caught consorting with beaver" is such a slow pitch over home plate that I almost feel guilty letting that one go by, but I'm gonna decline taking a a swing at it this time.

Just sayin'
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 10, 2018 - 08:28am PT
The felony threshold is $1500. How convenient they arrived at that value. A top of the line super deluxe tree stand on Cabelas is like $400. The best cameras with solar charging and cell tower antenna are like another $400 each. BS that pile of crap on his back came to $1500.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 10, 2018 - 08:59am PT
The hunter claimed two stands were destroyed/removed.....
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 10, 2018 - 09:03am PT
If the pics show only one stand, then that's probably all they could be convicted for.

The hunter wasn't satisfied with just one stand.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 10, 2018 - 09:03am PT
Perhaps this is a stand against leaving you're sh_t anywhere but your own property!
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 10, 2018 - 09:21am PT
The hunter wasn't satisfied with just one stand.
Cops too. This reeks of the cop being a member of that hunting forum. The fallout is way too activist. He probably had an orgasm when someone ID'd the guy and he realized who they were and that he could make a rare trip across town to a neighborhood way over his pay grade to justify his existence on this planet. To stick them with the actual charges would have been a dinner date all-in for the McLeans - can't have that.
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
Sep 10, 2018 - 09:29am PT
I'm with BadClimber on this one. How many times have folks stashed gear for projects and such. These are the same ones that call out other recreational users for leaving their gear in the backcountry. Just this weekend, I stumbled upon a gear cache (bolts, gear, stoves and fuel). By the appearance, it looked like it had been there a year or two and was abandoned or forgotten. Bootie??
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 10, 2018 - 09:35am PT
A year or two, yep, bootie.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 10, 2018 - 09:57am PT
There's an ice climb here aptly named the "Bicycle Route". 4-5 pitches of easy ice up through a woodsy waterfall. There's a ~15 year old MTB bicycle chained to a tree on pitch 4 where you can share a belay if ropes are your thing.

Booty?
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 10, 2018 - 10:03am PT
More like garbage by now. It would still be the bicycle route if someone cleaned it up, cuz there used to be a bike up there.
SilverSnurfer

Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
Sep 12, 2018 - 10:33am PT
More Stolen Hunting Goods Found At Park City Couple's Cabin

http://www.kpcw.org/post/more-stolen-hunting-goods-found-park-city-couples-cabin#stream/0

“All I can say that I made a serious mistake, am doing everything possible to make it right and that I have no excuse for it,” Andrew McLean told TGR regarding the incident.

Ouch.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 12, 2018 - 10:48am PT
Hopefully the woman is suspended from the practice of law, if not disbarred.
Sneaking around taking stuff that isn't yours, regardless of the motive (and I'm not sure that it was anything other than simple theft) isn't really compatible with the practice of law.
Jim Clipper

climber
Sep 12, 2018 - 10:51am PT
In the pokey, they called repeat offenders frequent fliers. Recidivism is real! So much for the civil disobedience argument.

Makes me want to light some boulders on fire, you know, for old times sake, leave no trace...

Actions have consequences.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 12, 2018 - 10:57am PT
I think the real estate agent who lied to police about the value of his supposedly stolen and not abandon property should also lose his license, if he feels truly just in thinking McLean should lose hers over this matter.

The guy sounds like a whiny vindictive POS to me.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 12, 2018 - 11:11am PT
Holy search warrants Batman.. they're cooked if they really kept all the stuff they stole. stupid stupid stupid!!!!

She'll definitely be disbarred for a felony conviction. The only hope would be lenient sentencing/suspended sentences/etc...
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Sep 12, 2018 - 11:18am PT
Not fair to blame methheads, a lawyer did this.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 12, 2018 - 11:29am PT
I don't see anything on Mrs McLean traveling either way. Looks to me like she's out walking the dog - an accessory at best.

They're using her position to get at Andrew - it's really petty.

If the police stuck to the facts this would be over very quickly, instead it's purposely been made into a complete sh!t show.
GuapoVino

climber
Sep 12, 2018 - 11:47am PT
Some hunters can be pretty bold and confrontational. I had a few that kept hunting on my land even when I convinced them that their employer did NOT own the land they were hunting on. The last time one of the guys was so confrontational that he threatened me. A couple times I had to show them where the property line was and that I did not give them permission to hunt on my property. Then they had to be told that it was not ok for them to use my property to access their employer's property. After that I began taking any gear of theirs that I found on my property (mostly trail cams) and sold it on Ebay.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 12, 2018 - 11:49am PT
( it is freaking me out that my very current life's challenges, often play out in a similar way in Taco-land)
not that I'm asking,
but what would you do the 2nd time!
if a neighbor, hunting out of season, shoots a deer but only wounds it, then tracks it onto adjacent property(clearly not owned by said hunter)
When the property is posted.

The issue has been dealt with once,
when actions taken destroyed a memory chip, not the device,
(BUT While on Private Property, so Trespass, was a possibility)
The case was made, seemed simple clear,

-it was not-

I looked into all of it,
& made it very complicated,
That sent attorneys scurrying for precedents, long story
I was ordered to pay 150 bucks for the stalking camera,
if it was turned over to me,
it was not, I still payed the phuk.
& Then Last week it happened again?

This neibor is a favord son of a large family,
A High School Teacher in a place he is sorely needed despite his limitations,
It is well known that he does not play well with others-
has a place that was in foreclosure for a dozen years,
has all the chips on his side of the table
so
I am poop outa-lucky-strikes
Might as well smoke a cigarette,
I've been phooked













I went & looked some thing up, it is not a match for stealing equipment
West's Utah Code Annotated. Title 23. Wildlife Resources Code of Utah. Chapter 20. Enforcement--Violations and Penalties.
Share|
Primary Citation: U.C.A. 1953 § 23-20-29, 23-20-29.5
Country of Origin: United States
Last Checked: March, 2018
more +
Summary:
This section reflects Utah's hunter harassment provisions. A person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor who intentionally interferes with the right of a person, licensed and legally hunting, to take wildlife by driving, harassing, or intentionally disturbing any species of wildlife for the purpose of disrupting a legal hunt, trapping, or predator control. A person adversely affected, or the state, may bring a civil action for damages resulting from the violation or a seek a restraining order. This section does not apply to incidental interference with a hunt caused by lawful activities including, but not limited to, ranching, mining, and recreation.



§ 23-20-29. Interference with hunting prohibited--Action to recover damages--Exceptions
(1) A person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor who intentionally interferes with the right of a person licensed and legally hunting under Chapter 19,Licenses, Permits, and Tags to take wildlife by driving, harassing, or intentionally disturbing any species of wildlife for the purpose of disrupting a legal hunt, trapping, or predator control.

(2) Any directly affected person or the state may bring an action to recover civil damages resulting from a violation of Subsection (1) or a restraining order to prevent a potential violation of Subsection (1).

(3) This section does not apply to incidental interference with a hunt caused by lawful activities including ranching, mining, and recreation.

CREDIT(S)

Laws 1986, c. 67, § 1; Laws 2011, c. 297, § 124, eff. May 10, 2011.



§ 23-20-29.5. Interference with hunters or hunting activity--Prosecution under criminal code
A person who intentionally interferes with a person who is licensed and taking wildlife legally under the provision of Title 23, Chapter 19, or disrupts an activity involving a legal hunt, trapping, falconry, or predator control may be charged with a violation under Section 76-9-102 if that interference or disruption constitutes a violation under Section 76-9-102.

From

https://www.animallaw.info/statute/ut-hunting-%C2%A7-23-20-29-interference-hunting-prohibited-action-recover-damages-exceptions
These laws to protect hunters are similar, state to state.
Laws like this cost big $$ to defend, & To fight in court, They often are deemed inappropriate

-but- In this case,??

Fear & I, as Connecticut residents, can hunt on a 1/4 acre if we want to & have permission from the land owner.

Here we are so well led as a user group made up of cops & lawyers, that they regularly send out this;

DEALING WITH HARASSMENT

All hunters, regardless of where they hunt, should be prepared for the possibility of being harassed. Your behavior if you are harassed is extremely important. Maintain your composure and do not retaliate. If you are interviewed by the media, project a positive image. Connecticut has a hunter harassment law that protects the rights of sportsmen. If you decide to press charges, make sure you have a strong case by:

making it evident that the antagonists are following you by going in several directions;
asking your antagonists why they are harassing you;
being able to identify and describe the individuals;
taking the license numbers of their vehicles if possible; and
not responding with violence or threatening a protester with bodily harm.
The sticky things get stickier, when the hunting is on-going, ignoring seasonal bans/restrictions , &/or when the ownership of the land is in question or can be challenged.

Hunting on a "right-of-way" or a contested/"Clouded" (un-satisfied leans, after sale, un-paid taxes, or paid by a third party after the fact. . . ) All this can and does play out when a hand gun is used to finish off an injured animal that has been tracked into my yard. . . .Ooops to much information...

in this case, it seems
(-all- will be a NON-Issue)
Taking abandoned property home with you re-sets the bar; turning a deliberate attempt to "make a statement against hunting thru civil disobedience, into a charge that in this case has been grossly exaggerated into Felony Theft

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 12, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
If the limit there is $1,500 for a felony, they're already close to or over it by stealing two stands and/or cams. Once the cops had the warrants and searched their property and found moar loot, that's super bad since it implicates them in more cases.

If they only had the one offense and no priors, they'd have a good chance of avoiding a felony prosecution. But the new evidence pretty much erases that chance now unless she's got some really good friends at the prosecutor's office.

I'm not a big fan of hunting but hunters, at least around here, do serve a huge purpose of keeping certain species at sustainable levels. I've only got a problem with them when they violate safety laws, particularly alcohol and shooting after/before there's ample light. I'm a stickler for proper firearm handling and have had to educate more than a few encountered on hikes. Most apologize after flagging me/others with a muzzle or similar offense. Had one guy yell that "it's not loaded"... I yelled back "I don't care!"... lol
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 12, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
Last time I was at a public range during a "cease fire" while people went to their targets, I turned around to see a fat woman taking a bead on me with a rifle.

I shouted, "WTF are you doing?"

She said, "Don't worry, the safety is on"


I should have wrapped it around her head.
Trump

climber
Sep 12, 2018 - 01:10pm PT
I’ve known Andrew McLean for decades. .. I support Andrew 100%.

My tribe’s kind of cool too. I’m gonna try to fit in and believe what they do. Hope I don’t wind up committing a felony. But if I do, I’ll bet my tribe will forgive me. What’s a little tribal collusion among friends? That sh#t makes the world go round. We don’t need no stinking witch hunt! The witches are all in the other tribe.
Jim Clipper

climber
Sep 12, 2018 - 02:08pm PT
Trump. Interests of individual groups will only become more contentious as population increases, and resources dwindle. User groups should get together to protect public lands. Otherwise, we're all just pawns.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
Sep 12, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
She'll definitely be disbarred for a felony conviction. The only hope would be lenient sentencing/suspended sentences/etc...

I'm not sure disbarrment would require a felony conviction; a misdemeanor might suffice, especially considering evidence of multiple thefts. Crimes involving moral turpitude have serious consequences for lawyers. They are held to a high moral standard and are expected to behave appropriately.
xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 12, 2018 - 02:20pm PT
meanwhile it wouldn't take much to set up the network that wouldn't allow any given hunter to stretch his heels in a local dinner without getting his tires slashed

the less comfortable these goons are being themselves in public the better off we all will be...
Jim Clipper

climber
Sep 12, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
Xcon? Did the hunter/goon relationship solidify as NRA membership became more and more "extreme"? Ducks Unlimited does some good, mainstream work. I know there are always exceptions.
xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 12, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
its their alignment with the extremists platform which makes whatever bit of good here and there they do irrelevant to how they should be considered or represented when its down to a one line of description

certain alignments are instant f*#k you!

and a good compromise going forward would be best served at this point if there were far more than just words behind that f*#k you...
Trump

climber
Sep 12, 2018 - 02:54pm PT
Thanks Jim. Well argued. I’d say that evolutionary psychology agrees about the argument, just maybe not the ends to which you argue it. The ends are more about the survival/thrival of the tribe than about the tribe’s imagined goals.

Can you believe how those Republicans are all lining up behind me, for the good of the tribe, despite what a criminal f*#kwad I seem to be? We’d never do that. ?
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 12, 2018 - 03:12pm PT
Funny that some people are on the side of the thieves.

I don't understand...
xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 12, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
that's because you refuse to register how much of life you've had to dismiss in order for the focus on property to seem moral...
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 12, 2018 - 07:58pm PT
Xcon, was that response to me or the thieves? Could go either way
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 12, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
wOW....
& given that I took out the word Kill from the front of every line,
it still reads to harshly;so i put all the Killings back


HUMANS STILL OBSESSED WITH KILLING?
KILLING FOR SPORT IS PLAIN BAD
KILLING IS STUPID BAD
KILLING IS INSENSITIVE & BAD
KILLING THINGS THAT ARE NOT A THREAT IS JUST PLAIN STUPID BAD
KILLING IS NOT A SPORT, A SHOW OF DOMINANCE COMPENSATING FOR A FEELING IF INSIGNIFICANCE-
i CAN KILL i CAN KILL
LOOK AT WHAT i KILLED

LOOK AT HOW i KILLED A STUPID BEAST THAT JUST WALKED UNDER ME WHILE i WAS hIDING IN A TREE
SO i COULD BE A WASTE FUL STUPID HUMAN AND kILL kILL kILL


LIMPING,
i DO Limp,

but no I am not siding with the thieves, clearly if you read the bottom of my 1st post;

I have been having a similar response from my neighbor.
I'm not anti hunting, just anti-cheating at it
What determines -"By Fair Means"
hunting with lights? night vision assisted? feeding stations? brush berms? fires?
all of the above while hidding in tree stands, and scent lock blinds?
any user group that is abusing a resource makes all user groups look bad

AND FIND IT AMAZING THAT ONE WHO APPRECIATES NATURE CAN'T SEE
THAT THE HUNTERS SHOULD HAVE LESS STANDING, IF THEY ABANDON THEIR GEAR
& PAY A HIGHER PRICE FOR THE WASTING OF LIFE THEIRS & WHAT EVER THEY eEF'N KILL





That said -
I have to agree that, whatever excuses (abandoned property, etc.) It wouldn't matter,
It was beyond stupid to have taken the Items.

Destruction of the tree-stands would have been seen by the cameras.(Cutting the trees to near failure might make it more criminal)
The application of smelly substances that alert the animals; Grease and human "Offal" is more effective at stopping retarded hunters from having fun.
All available at McDonald's.
(if not gathered from a public restroom, the evidence could lead authorities to the culprits.)

While a good case can be made for the real need to kill deer to reduce over-population & to stem the rise/increase of Bears,
it should not go on in between 1/2 acre lots, in my opinion.

I have hunting going on in my back yard. Until I made an issue of seasonal restrictions, there was no enforcement.
One person uses all of the following in a 1.80 acre lot between 9 houses.
These are permanatly fixed brackets (on contested land) to hang stands on,
notice that they are only 8 feet or less up on the tree.
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase
Scent-lock blinds, tree-stands , ladder stands, Lights, fires(to mask the scent), debris berms 6-7 feet high,
salt lick/automatic, timed' feeding stations & laser sighting on the bow. As well as using night-vision eye wear.
{That I regularly defeat by shinning a spot light at}

all of these practices are in use, year round, to desensitize the prey.
& I have been told that only the discharge of a fire arm is actionable.
There is gunfire that happens occasionally, but never acted on.
I've also started a religious practice; gong playing before dawn, to Guarantee that the sun will rise.
A respect of all life is an important tenant of Buddhist thought.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 12, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
Humans are omnivorous animals. It’s nature, and regulated, and not bad logically unless someone brings emotions into it.


I’m still not sure how anyone would side with thieves...?

Well, unless disagreeing with someone makes it ok to steal their stuff. I’m going to start stealing cars, but only from people that don’t use turnouts properly. Then it’s ok, and much better than dealing with them directly. Also I’m usually nice so there shouldn’t be consequences. Especially if the car owner seems like someone I don’t like in interviews.



In all seriousness. They stole stuff and knew they were doing it and had done it before. Seems like the smug ones are the thieves in this case, not the victims.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 12, 2018 - 08:55pm PT

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah

Sep 12, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
Last time I was at a public range during a "cease fire" while people went to their targets, I turned around to see a fat woman taking a bead on me with a rifle.

I shouted, "WTF are you doing?"

She said, "Don't worry, the safety is on"


I should have wrapped it around her head.

I found this quite disturbing

Could not read much of any of the rest
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 12, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
Just because we can, doesn't mean it's in our best interest.

There's plenty of evidence that we are not natural omnivores.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 12, 2018 - 09:16pm PT
They stole stuff
There is no “They”. The photos are suggesting “He” stole stuff. “She” was an accessory, at best, walking the dog, completely empty handed. A fuggin community college graduate cop and a vindictive dumbass real estate agent are now their worst problems.

I say in the end, after smarter people sift through the nonsense, she keeps her job and he does probation and community service. Neither get a felony - not even close.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Sep 12, 2018 - 09:31pm PT
I say in the end, after smarter people sift through the nonsense, she keeps her job and he does probation and community service. Neither get a felony - not even close.
Seems obvious they were both involved, and the extra stolen stuff in their cabin doesn’t bode wel. But ya, you could be right, I’m no expert on the law but wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out like you say. It’ll be interesting to see.

Just because we can, doesn't mean it's in our best interest.

There's plenty of evidence that we are not natural omnivores.
To your first point, fair enough. To the second point, we most definitely have the anatomy of omnivores.

Sorry, thread drift. I’m bad at OT threads.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 12, 2018 - 09:39pm PT
JLP says that the crime is lesser than stealing cigars and is NBD. Ask Michael Brown about that, if you would.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 13, 2018 - 06:49am PT
Ask Michael Brown about that
Exactly - someone ran into an ineffective cop dumber than a bag of rocks - didn’t go well for him. I would hope the McLeans do better.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 13, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
zBrown,

just takes a few idiots with guns to tarnish the lot of us.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 13, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
Wow. Living the dream, by all accounts, but it wasn't good enough. They could have just stayed home and enjoyed a glass of wine, but they had to go out and f*#k with someone else's stuff.

I find it hard to believe he was stealing.

The dictionary definition of "theft" ...

"the taking of another person's property or services without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it"

... sounds exactly like what they did.

Working as a team, packing bolt cutters into the woods, and making multiple trips to get the stuff shows a degree of criminal sophistication the court will have a hard time overlooking.

This whole thing's funny as hell!

It's not the crime of the century. Nobody got hurt. The victim lost recreational equipment - not work tools, or something he needs to earn a living.

Nobody's going to prison or even jail. They'll end up on probation. For a few years they'll be treated like children by a series of probation officers young enough to be their children. They may have to attend an *anger management* program, or get other counseling, like AA if they're found to be drinkers.

These two will probably have to re-invent themselves. I can't imagine anyone with a recent theft conviction on their record working as a city attorney. Can't do much ski touring when the terms of probation prohibit setting foot on public lands or leaving the county without permission of a probation officer. Unless they have other sources of income they may have to leave their high-dollar neighborhood and find a more affordable place to live. They're smart (up to a point) and motivated. They'll do better than most convicted criminals, especially if they take their rehabilitation seriously.

Moral of the story: When you're living the dream, count your goddamn blessings and live the dream - and let everybody else live theirs.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 13, 2018 - 03:59pm PT
Yeah, I'm not a hunter, but if the antelope start eating the feed I grow for the stock (you can't fence out antelope), then I might apply for a depredation tag.

If hunters leave me alone I do the same. Chaz is right; leave others to their dreams. There are far better ways to convince people to reduce meat consumption. (Says I over a turkey sandwich,..)

Maybe if he didn't work for BD I'd have more sympathy, but I hate thieves.
SilverSnurfer

Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
Sep 13, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
A felony conviction could really mess with trips to Canada. Reason enough right there for me to stick to the straight and narrow.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 13, 2018 - 04:06pm PT
No joke!
Trump

climber
Sep 14, 2018 - 08:30am PT
Yea I definitely count myself among the ranks of the righteous nature lovers. But if I’m gonna be honest to myself about what really matters to me, I’m just not all that broken up over all those dead dinosaurs.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Sep 14, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
http://www.kpcw.org/post/criminal-charges-against-andrew-mclean-promps-black-diamond-end-25-year-relationship

Black Diamond learned that their paid ambassador, Andrew McLean, had been arrested and facing two counts of felony theft and vandalism. To add to the damage – it was against the hunting community that Black Diamond serves.

Black Diamond said it has ended its 25 year relationship with Andrew McLean.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 14, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
Did BD assume a conviction is a foregone conclusion?

I bet Yengich would get the photos suppressed.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 14, 2018 - 03:12pm PT
Ouch
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
Sep 14, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
Oopsie!
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 15, 2018 - 09:12am PT
Was he packin'

Yewah, I think so. How else could he shoot the Water Dept guy?

The San Diego Fire-Rescue Department bomb squad found and took the cache Sept. 7 while serving what is known as a “gun violence restraining order” against the homeowner and accused shooter, 79-year-old Nathan Brogan, officials said.

The weapons stockpile included an AR-15 with a 200-round drum magazine, 34 additional rifles and 21 handguns taken from Brogan’s home, the City Attorney’s Office said.

The bomb squad also removed 75,000 rounds of ammunition as well as explosives, among them a smoke grenade and 4.5 pounds of loose black powder.

When you have an arsenal like this, how do you choose what to shoot the Water Dept guy with (BTW he chose a shotgun_}

Credit: zBrown

[img]https://media.nbcsandiego.com/images/1200*675/Brogan+weapons+thumbnail.jpg



SAN DIEGO (KGTV) — Federal agents seized a huge haul of meth and heroin being trafficked at a San Diego restaurant this month.

Gun guy was not the dealer, probably just a user


xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 15, 2018 - 09:31am PT
did they take his drivers license while they were at it?

would probably be a better move in terms of public safety...

Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Sep 15, 2018 - 09:32am PT
Those are some cool ol' classic shootin' irons. The broom-handled Mauser is a classic! I've always wanted to shoot one of those. I actually had a job working for my father who was manufacturing replacement grips for those things. Production wood working helped convince me to stay in college. LOL.

BAd
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 15, 2018 - 01:47pm PT
Looks like they put the wife on administrative leave, which basically means they eventually fire her. Bummer.

They have 2 kids 10 ish in age - probably getting picked on.

If I were Andrew, on my most pissed off day, I would have taken that stuff down and left it either at the base of the tree or at the trailhead - not taken it home - for the kids to find.

If I were a Momo real estate agent, I wouldn't have lied publicly about the value of that junk to my customer base.

If I were the wife, I would have said "have a nice time, I'll be here with the kids", and if I were Andrew I wouldn't have asked her to go with.

Meh - fuk 'em all. SLC culture is a mess.

They'll probably have to move and find different jobs - but they'll be fine - educated, smart, willing to work - always does fine.

That real estate agent is going to return to the trailhead someday to find his truck burned out.
Oldfattradguy2

Trad climber
Here and there
Sep 15, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
Many issues here, over the years AM has done more to ruin BC skiing in the Wastach than almost anybody else. He has also done some great work to protect it. But he started drifting away from the protection to be more of a property rights advocate. Many might disagree with me on him ruining the BC skiing but he used as a form of his own self promotion, perhaps he could not figure out a way to promote himself without it. Kind of like the Duck/ trout unlimited model of hey let’s save the critters so we can kill them. That said these these groups do more than most to preserve the environment and do an awesome job along with groups like rocky Mtn elk, the shame being that part of the environmental aspect of BC protection will be damaged.

The sad thing is that many know AM and his advocacy work ( note I will admit working with him on wpg and wba stuff until he deleted me from his address book). His actions are going to put a big sh#t stain on the relationships of some environmental allies.

Having spent 1,000’s of hours working to preserve the Waatch BC I often spoke with hunters who shared a Kindred spirit, this is now likely damaged.

Man, am I glad I left SLC.....it is Likely glad I left...

Todd
Ain't no flatlander

climber
Sep 15, 2018 - 06:20pm PT
"If I were a Momo real estate agent, I wouldn't have lied publicly about the value of that junk to my customer base."

Just curious, do you know this for fact? That photo showed Andy hauling out a rig that looked like it could rival a good portaledge. And game cameras can easily exceed $500 depending on features. So JLP, what in your professional opinion is that stuff worth?

It's amazing they've both screwed up their lives so much for an irrational hatred of hunters, or so it appears.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Sep 15, 2018 - 07:43pm PT
Stealing peoples stuff is bullshit regardless of motivation. I'm personally not a fan of hunting - but if it's legal and they have a tag- it's not our place to police it regardless of how distasteful you find it. If you ever come across equipment you feel is " trash" or " abandoned" or feel a hunter is out of bounds- call the BLM or the USFS or Fish and Game to go deal with it. It's not your job to mess with people's personal property. Mess with the wrong hunter you may end up with a gun in your face. In this case- the stuff was locked with cameras on it- clearly not " abandoned". This couple jeopardized their careers and reputations with their self-righteous attitude - which is a shame since they seem like decent folk otherwise .
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 15, 2018 - 10:08pm PT
Geologicallly speaking...This is a non-event...The poor hunters won't starve to death....Nothing will change...Don't leave your stupid toys out in the wilderness...
ß Î Ř T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Sep 15, 2018 - 11:55pm PT
... call the BLM or the USFS or Fish and Game to go deal with it.

No thanks.
The man is looking for anyone dumb enough to say anything-so they can pounce on them. If you burp or fart -that's another infraction.

PinkTaco

Mountain climber
Utah
Sep 16, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
I always thought that bow hunting was about “sport”.

How are camera’s and platforms enabling sportsmanship exactly?

In my opinion it is watering down the purist aspect of the activity to a level as low as its lead-head cohorts have taken their “sport”. How can you even feel like you have accomplished anything if you have cheated so badly during the process? Have some self-respect, stop cheating. Give yourselves a chance to be sporting.

Cool that this topic has appeared on a climbing forum. There are definitely some parallels with the birth of "sport" climbing and the bolting issues!

Just a thought: What if Andrew and Polly were to have instead placed their own locks on that stuff, and their own cameras watching their locks and their cameras? Who would be at fault when a lock gets cut?


Trump

climber
Sep 16, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
Have some self respect people!

But don’t have self respect the way that you yourself think you should do it, for the reasons that you think you should respect yourself, have self respect the way that I in my opinion think you should do it, for the reasons that I think you should respect yourself, like if I were you.

My opinion is that we’ve each got this self respect thing already covered, maybe all too well.
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 16, 2018 - 04:41pm PT
Speaking of sporting, hunting season opened at my climbing crag this weekend. The 4x4s were going back and forth on the dirt road near my campsite starting at 4am. Are they hoping for a shot from their vehicle? Do they try to freeze the deer with lights? Weird sport.
WBraun

climber
Sep 16, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
Weird sport.

They say the same about YOU and your weird obsession with jumping around on rocks like monkeys .....
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 16, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
They have no idea there is climbing in the area as most don't go 50 yards from the road.
WBraun

climber
Sep 16, 2018 - 05:20pm PT
And .......

They are Trump voters giving you a good dose of Karmic reactions for all your past st00pid political diarrhea drool.

There IS NO ESCAPE ......
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 16, 2018 - 05:21pm PT
My little stalker just loves me.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 17, 2018 - 11:44am PT
I’m confused as to why anyone is opposed to hunting. Managing the population of a species that admittedly, we have screwed with, doesn’t strike me as a problem. I was a vegetarian for years, then I started eating poultry and fish. Now, the only thing I won’t eat is pig. I respect animals, and hunters do as well. I don’t hunt, never have. What’s the issue? You just don’t like rednecks? I don’t like yuppies and urbanites, but I’m not burning down a Whole Foods store.
SilverSnurfer

Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
Sep 17, 2018 - 12:31pm PT
Moose is delicious, but the little critters around here in the Wasatch are barely worth the effort..even from a tree stand.

signed:
"ruined by being raised in Alaska.."
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 17, 2018 - 12:41pm PT
For many Africans bush rat is a major protein source just like those disgusting guinea pigs in Peru. Can’t wait for PETA to pick up that torch.

SAVE THE RODENTS!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 17, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
Was served "snow pig" once in the mountains above Chengdu. I thought the bones looked small for a pig. Turned out to be the local name for a Himalayan Marmot. Was like shoe leather without the flavor.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 17, 2018 - 01:00pm PT
Rooskies like ‘em some ‘snow pig’ too in the Pamirs...

Credit: Reilly

Dunno what he was gonna use that mangy flea-bitten fur for.
Probably a fur joock strap.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 17, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
Venison is delicious. I’d eat every time I go for animal protein. Alas, like I wrote, I don’t hunt. I’m stuck with handouts from friends every fall. With a full on vegetarian wife, it means more for me.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 17, 2018 - 03:07pm PT
Road kill Brandon. Scour the roads and hour after sundown while the sunset kill is still fresh.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 17, 2018 - 05:17pm PT
Brilliant!

Might even be tenderized a bit,..


I wonder what the talk will be at the BD booth next SHOT show.
xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 17, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
the only community accomplishment of the hunter is to rescue lyme disease from extinction...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 17, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
Say that after you've hit a deer and had its head come through the windscreen with a severed artery spraying you with warm blood.


Hunters contribute more $ for animal conservation than all the libtard charities.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Sep 18, 2018 - 07:23am PT
Sorry, xCon, but Toker is right. There are some seriously DB hunters out there, and I've met a few, but take any large population, and you'll find that. Heck, even climbers! But lots and lots of hunters care a lot about the outdoors and contribute serious cash and effort to maintaining herd/flock health and habitat. If it weren't such a chore, I'd get back into big game hunting, which I did as a teenager. Fresh, wild meat is the best.

BAd
Keystone

Trad climber
Page,AZ
Sep 18, 2018 - 08:17am PT
If a tree stand is cheating in hunting? THEN aid, hangdogging, fixed lines and anything other than single push alpinism is cheating in climbing.

Somebody upthread commented on how all the fancy gear was cheating in hunting (camo, scent block, rangefinders, game cams etc....)... Once again, soloing naked is the only way. No sticky rubber, lightweight carabiners,thin cord, cams, bolts

Somebody upthread said hunters were weird or strange (to lazy to go back and find the quote)

Hunting = Food
Climbing = ???? A fuzzy warm feeling about making it to the top.
Which one is more strange?

There is a large group of hunters that hate the NRA and Trump and everything they stand for. They most likely are the quiet ones that don't share Russian propaganda on Facebook, don't have armband tattoos and jacked up penis trucks, so they are hard to stereotype.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
Sep 18, 2018 - 08:51am PT
Nephew's first speed goat hunt!
Nephew's first speed goat hunt!
Credit: Q- Ball

I think hunting is a great way to show kids the outdoors and keep them off video games.
Bale

Mountain climber
UT
Sep 18, 2018 - 09:32am PT
I have admired AM for many years, so when I heard about this, my first reaction was to defend him. However, his actions have hurt his cause. Tree huggers and hunters need to get together to save public lands. And like Toker, I hate thieves!
For those of you unfamiliar with Andrew, he has skied lines that many would hesitate to climb, and he’s always been at the forefront of conservation in the Wasatch. Damn.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 18, 2018 - 09:37am PT
Teaching your kids to kill to keep them off video games brilliant.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 18, 2018 - 09:38am PT
And here we go....

<popcorn>
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 18, 2018 - 09:51am PT
I just killed some ants in my kitchen. I didn’t eat them. Am I a bad person?
Bale

Mountain climber
UT
Sep 18, 2018 - 09:59am PT
“Not to condone criminal activity, but the Chuting Gallery author may have just written himself deeper into backcountry ski lore with this one. Somewhere a crusty local tips his glass.”
Powder magazine.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 18, 2018 - 10:03am PT
Just saw a dead bear, around 200 pounds, on the side of the highway here. Was tempted to stop and pay my respects, but traffic made it seem as if I’d be run over while paying my respect to roadkill. I mourn that bear.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 18, 2018 - 11:15am PT
I get my meat at restaurants and grocery stores, and find pix like the above disgusting. I am a hypocrite, and I’m pretty sure I’m not alone.

Sport = chance of losing - ie, getting killed by the animal. Hunting is not a sport unless you’re out there hand-paw with the thing.
Bad Climber

Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
Sep 18, 2018 - 11:24am PT
Antelope populations are robust. It's probably the best tasting wild game I've ever had. If I lived in Wyoming, I would so get me one. If you eat meat, you should witness first hand what goes into making it. I feel blessed to have been guided through that process by my father. RIP!

BTW, shooting and hunting with my dad taught me all kinds of serious, important lessons about risk, taking responsibility for your actions, looking out for the safety of others. No small experiences for a young man.

BAd
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 18, 2018 - 11:39am PT
Did somebody say “hand-paw”?

Not Yogi - Yogi’s big assed cousin!
Not Yogi - Yogi’s big assed cousin!
Credit: Reilly

I went to Walmart yesterday. Dayum but there wuz some big game there!
A dood had to watch his step!
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 18, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
JLP,
my neighbor shot a brown bear at 5m!
Plenty of danger there.


Oh, and did I mention he used a bow and arrow?
PinkTaco

Mountain climber
Utah
Sep 18, 2018 - 02:21pm PT

Should have known better than to use the word "thought" on this thread.
Looks to be a lot of prion disease on this thread. Not surprising since many of the Utah herds are infected.

Awe and no healthcare for you commies, the irony!
PinkTaco

Mountain climber
Utah
Sep 18, 2018 - 02:27pm PT

HAYDUKE LIVES !!!

HAYDUKE LIVES !!!

HAYDUKE LIVES !!!
Bale

Mountain climber
UT
Sep 18, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
@pink taco, haha, I was thinking the same thing, only Hayduke never got caught.
Krease

Gym climber
the inferno
Sep 18, 2018 - 09:14pm PT
JLP, as a drumpf-hating, pro-choice, pro-gay, anti-war bow hunter I find your hypocrisy disgusting. Please, go consume more factory-farmed animals that are tortured their entire lives before being ushered up a chute to have a bolt-gun driven into their skulls so you can eat your guilt-free cheeseburger without getting your hands dirty.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 19, 2018 - 09:20am PT
^^^^ +10!

Ducks Unlimited has probably done more for wildlife habitat conservation than the Sierra Club.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 19, 2018 - 09:31am PT
100% of the meat you eat is hunted? How did you get the tags - vegetarian most of the year - freak from the Alaskan bush - very alone - lying - or just as much a hypocrite?

monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 19, 2018 - 09:40am PT
Pro-Gay?

Who even sez that stuff any more?

If you are not pro-gay, does that mean you are anti-gay?
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
Sep 19, 2018 - 09:51am PT
JLP,
Getting tags ain't hard. I just go to the gas station and buy them. My freezer is full and happy to share some meat with you. Elk, hog, deer, grouse. Let me know what you prefer. Sorry no pronghorn I let my brother keep it.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 19, 2018 - 10:06am PT
Sounds like time and energy.

Instead I'll have someone prepare it for me, pay them, eat, then go do something I find more important or interesting - than behaving like a prehistoric savage!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 19, 2018 - 10:10am PT
I'll take "free range" venison over hormone laced cow, any day.
Krease

Gym climber
the inferno
Sep 19, 2018 - 08:49pm PT
I purchase half a steer every year from a local farmer. No factory farmed beef. Do I kill him? No, but I know he wasn't raised in a high density feed lot and I pick the one I want while supporting a local farmer. Excellent meat, better and,pound for pound,cheaper than that sh#t in the grocery store. Grow my own vegetables, so no industrial farming in as much as possible. Eggs purchased the same way.
This year, a half a hog when the time presents itself. I like to know where my food comes from
as opposed to some hormone fattened cow that eats a diet of ground up cow as is what happens on factory "farms". And yep, a good Bambi and wild turkey with a recurve bow when the time is right. I try like hell to avoid the mass produced meats, but if you're a carnivore it's well nigh impossible. Where you're a hypocrite, jlp, is deriding a picture of a young man learning where his food comes from,outside of a grocery store, and labeling hunting " disgusting" while still cramming your mouth full of meat.



PinkTaco

Mountain climber
Utah
Sep 20, 2018 - 07:54am PT
Krease,

I think for the most part in the climbing community you are preachin to the choir. A much larger percentage of climbers and athletes are more inclined to know and actually care where their food comes from than the general non-athletic type. So I think it is fair to say that we are all in agreement that kumbaya meat is better than that store bought crap.

The issue is trash on public lands.

If a contractor dumps a load of jack hammered concrete at the trailhead it is trash on our public lands.

That fridge, or P.O.S. Lada that your neighbor left on the BLM road and filled full of lead is trash on our public lands.

If a dog owner leaves a turd bag on the side of the trail, even just for 5 minutes, long enough for it to be unattended and seen by another public land user, it is trash on our public lands.

If a bow hunter leaves a camera on a tree, it is trash on our public lands. So all arguments about sport, or kumbaya meat, or rights, and all those excuses result in the same fact, it is just more trash on our public lands.

.. and yes, bolting is trash on public lands too.

No problem here with hunters, in fact I think bow hunters are some of the coolest folks I meet out there. There are some real ones left too.
I have a problem with trash on our public lands.

Amen
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Sep 20, 2018 - 08:18am PT
I'm not anti hunting, its fun for many folks, a tradition among alot of outdoor enthusiasts, who buy gear.

All courtesy of zbrown

Each of a compound bow's two cams features two tracks: an inner track which connects to the opposite limb or opposite cam through cables, and an outer track through which the bowstring runs. As the bow is drawn, the ratio of bowstring pay-out and cable take-up relative to limb-weight and leverage of the cams changes.
Credit: Gnome Ofthe Diabase

The only thing Pre-historic, is the suspension of cognitive thinking
& the belief that there is, in the romance of man against . . . . ?

There is no limit to the technology that gets used -

Don't forget the red dot laser sighting, low ambient vision assistance,
Scent lock clothing,

and use of attractants like feeding stations,

salt licks, and bottled pheromone-rich deer urine.


It's a fair game . .,








Q- Ball

Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
Sep 20, 2018 - 09:08am PT
I have taken down a dozen tree stands on my property, and several trail cameras. If someone that I catch on my land is nice to me I generally tell them to simply call and ask permission. Some good friends of mine were folks that were poaching on my farm when we first met.

Putting nails in trees is a good way to get me hurt when logging. I have zero tolerance for that. I had one guy dump a bunch of trash. I went through it, found his mail. The judge said,"mr. @$)& if you didn't dump this than why is your sh$t there." I provided him with trash bags and only requested he clean it up. He did.
Q- Ball

Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
Sep 20, 2018 - 09:24am PT

JLP
"Sounds like time and energy.
Instead I'll have someone prepare it for me, pay them, eat, then go do something I find more important or interesting - than behaving like a prehistoric savage!"

It is all butchered and vacuumed sealed, you don't need to pay me. Does that make it better? And I don't think the rifle I use is very prehistoric :).

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 20, 2018 - 09:59am PT
I'm not into hunting because I think there's more fun things to do with my time and I'd rather challenge myself or compete against my fellow man. But I totally get it. Hunting and climbing are prehistoric, hell pre-speech activities for humans. I can see the challenge and comradarie of the hunt, the feeling of providing for yourself, etc.

The problem is the lack of respect from some hunters. Unfortunately I know it attracts some power hungry people who enjoy killing defenseless animals. Some people who break the rules. Who don't target the species that need control of their numbers. Who want to kill big animals to try to make themselves feel powerful (a lot of big game hunters). I think it's the minority but they stick out like a sore thumb.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 20, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
If he thought it was "trash" why did he keep it?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 20, 2018 - 01:56pm PT
If he thought it was "trash" why did he keep it?

cuz one man's treasure is another man's trash? More likely he was saving it for the recycler.
Trump

climber
Sep 20, 2018 - 02:22pm PT
I think it’s the minority but they stick out like a sore thumb.

Yea it’s those other bad humans who give humans a bad name.

I’ve got a kid at a public elementary school, where they require (to the extent possible) that parents participate at the school, so lots of stuff gets done by the parents, for better or worse.

Just got an email from one parent who was arranging for a large donation to the school from a large kid-centric corporation, where one of the requirements was that we participate in volunteer projects. So the parent was soliciting names and email addresses of people to say that they had participated in a specific volunteer activity in the past, whether they had actually done so or not, because more names meant more money for our school and our kids.

Lying and cheating for our own gain is not quite what I’m hoping my kid will learn at this school or in this community, but as a human living amongst humans, I expect it’s what they’re going to learn anyway. Fortunately I’ve got these “survival of me the fittest” cheater blinders on that help me not notice that sh#t in myself.
BruceHildenbrand

Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
Sep 20, 2018 - 04:18pm PT
If he thought it was "trash" why did he keep it?
I think there is a pretty obvious reason why Andrew kept the stuff he took. He wasn't stealing the stuff to make money. This was a protest against hunting. Because of that he wasn't going to sell the stuff or throw it away. He just kept it because it was about removing the stuff and not about disposing of it, as well.
xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 20, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
whats unfortunate is that it didn't make it into a tree-sitters kit...
Bale

Mountain climber
UT
Sep 20, 2018 - 06:22pm PT
The Fet nails it. I have family members that seem bloodthirsty, like they just want to kill stuff at any cost. I have no problem with subsistence hunting and I may even take a deer or wild turkey next year, but these trophy hunters make me wanna vomit.
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 20, 2018 - 06:25pm PT
^^^^^^ Thank you ^^^^^^
xCon

Social climber
909
Sep 20, 2018 - 06:37pm PT
and don't forget when they try and tell you about hunters 'contributing more' to protecting wildlife remember

their talking about all those millions of dollars a year those trophy hunters pony up for the red carpet treatment...
Krease

Gym climber
the inferno
Sep 20, 2018 - 09:36pm PT
what the fuk are you talking about con? When a hunter/fisherman purchases a hunting/fishing license, he/she is contributing to nearly 200$ million every year to wildlife conservation. Christ on a crutch, do some fuking research.
Here's a simple homework assignment: research how much acreage the federal duck stamp proceed has purchased for sustainable wet lands fowl since its inception. That's one stamp on an already purchased hunting license.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Sep 21, 2018 - 05:31am PT
I've met and know Andrew McClean. He even gave me a tour of the BD facility back in the day, when they still made camelots there. There are quite a few BD products that have his design influence all over them.

I'd imagine the business model of the new overlords of BD trouble him.

I'm no fan of trophy hunting. I don't hunt myself and haven't since I "turned to climbing" and gave up my life of bullets and blood. But I used to hunt, and there are hunters in my extended family; a couple of them are quite good at it.

They're good people and that fact perhaps invokes within me a greater tolerance. But I detest roadside hunters. I see them frequently in these hunting seasons in the Sierra. Most recently we saw a guy on an electric cycle, stealthily creeping down the road with a quick release bow mounted across his handle bars. What a f*#ktard. Might as well go tactical nuke, too.

Contrasting this perception is perhaps a more, I dunno, purist approach to the sport. Last fall and early storm dumped a foot or more of snow on the Sierra, right during the first week of deer season. The legions of road hunters were appalled, appalled I tell you!

Anyway we decided to hike a mountain and a few miles from the trailhead we came across:


The maker of the tracks


He'd been out for two days and was out during the storm itself, hunkered down and biding his time. Of course the snow turned to his advantage the next morning and he tracked and then bagged his prey.

He field dressed the buck, packed both it and his kit up and was making his way out when we encountered him


While I do not hunt, this young feller has my respect. He got that deer the hard way, the honest way and he was doing his own work to get it out, miles from the roadside.

It's his sort I try to keep in mind when my ire at the roadside 'hunters' provokes sarcastic comments.

Anyway, I hope Andrew and his wife are able to bounce back from this situation they created for themselves.

Cheers
DMT
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 21, 2018 - 05:37am PT
Anyway, I hope Andrew and his wife are able to bounce back from this situation they created for themselves.
Me too. Sometimes our mistakes aren’t really mistakes, maybe we just need a change.
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