Discussion Topic |
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jakepramsey
Trad climber
Yosemite, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 18, 2018 - 08:20pm PT
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I spilt a bunch of windshield washer fluid on my rope. Is it f*#ked?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Aug 18, 2018 - 08:25pm PT
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No, I don't think it will have sustained any damage. If you wring it out of the rope reasonably soon (before the nylon degrades it), it should still clean your windows fairly well.
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jakepramsey
Trad climber
Yosemite, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2018 - 08:28pm PT
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Yeah I was not able to rinse it out. It happened on my way to work and sat in the car all day. It wasn’t sitting in a pool of it but it definitely got a bunch on it.
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Bale
Mountain climber
UT
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Aug 18, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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Good one Ghost, 8/10. Jake, I think that stuff is fairly harmless but I’m no chemist.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 18, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
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Ghost deserves at least an 8.7, but in view of the bait being swallowed a 9.5 is mandatory.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Aug 18, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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whiper fluid. that's what chalk absorbs
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 18, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
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who's willing to risk their life on a supposition regarding the chemistry of ropes and windshield wiper fluid?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Aug 18, 2018 - 10:14pm PT
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I spilt a bunch of windshield washer fluid on my rope. Is it f*#ked? Yes- You better replace that windshield wiper fluid.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 19, 2018 - 01:13am PT
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your rope was f0cked way before that.
but, gnowing that you have to ask from behind a computer screen is better than wondering when your looking for it to be your
LIFE LINE.
you'll be fine. Wash it; use 1/4 Dr Bronner's soap & water then rinse.
smell for residue, repeat if necessary.
relegate it to a top rope/rappel - gym cord only
Use it for solo tree work with a chain saw.
What type of rope?
You're gonna die
(I stand to corrected - portray it correctly, & sit down again)
Yer still gonna die, get the rope wet
Pick any number of above recommendations.
delighted edit, on at the same moment, wid'a whos who from da east !!
!!
the picturebelow(wait for it) is "Windshield Whiper*"
[photoid
Thank You for the great name.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Aug 19, 2018 - 02:28am PT
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Your gonna die This is unacceptable. WTF is this place coming to?
Yer gonna die
You're gonna die
You're going to die
These are all acceptable
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Aug 19, 2018 - 07:29am PT
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Don't bother.
You needed a new rope anyway, didn't you?
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Aug 19, 2018 - 08:21am PT
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Malemute, that chart is fascinating. Speaking as someone who used to use almost all of those chemicals in the lab during my scientific career, I would never have predicted that nylon would be compatible with some of those things. Or not compatible with others. Methanol, although highly flammable and highly toxic if ingested, is one of the least noxious things I used to work with.
From Wiki:
All nylons are susceptible to hydrolysis, especially by strong acids, a reaction essentially the reverse of the synthetic reaction shown above. The molecular weight of nylon products so attacked drops, and cracks form quickly at the affected zones. Lower members of the nylons (such as nylon 6) are affected more than higher members such as nylon 12. This means that nylon parts cannot be used in contact with sulfuric acid for example, such as the electrolyte used in lead–acid batteries.
Personally, I'd be nervous about a rope that sat and soaked in any solvent all day. Like Ed says, do you want to bet your life on a theoretical prediction.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 19, 2018 - 08:25am PT
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Wiper fluid over spays all over your windshield onto other parts of the car and everywhere else on some cars.
Are those parts corroded or damaged?
I doubt Wildshield Whiper Fluid would do anything to the rope.
Wash the rope !!!
And get a piece of rope off the spool at the store and soak it in the fluid to test under load later ....
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TLP
climber
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Aug 19, 2018 - 09:23am PT
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Something is suspect about the table a few posts above. It shows antifreeze (identified below as water/ethylene glycol/propylene glycol) as D - severe effect. But a few lines down it has ethylene glycol and propylene glycol both as A - excellent. It's not chemically plausible that the combination is damaging whereas either pure compound is not. WTF?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 19, 2018 - 12:09pm PT
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Just my opinion, but no way would I use that rope.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Aug 19, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
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Yeah, unfortunately, I'm not sure it would be worth the risk. You could try emailing BD or Maxim or one of the other big rope manufacturers and if it's something they have actually tested.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Aug 19, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
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shred the rope. attach it your whiper blade arm like a mop head. now you will truly have a wild shield whiper.
you're welcome
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 19, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
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IM A GUMBY, DAMMIT, U O ME A LAP TOP
SUNDAY IS SPAGHETTI NIGHT #MARINARAEVERYWHERE
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Stimbo
Trad climber
Crowley Lake
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Aug 19, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
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Try yanking a car out of a ditch or muddy bog. If it didn't break, then your rope is fine. Use it.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 19, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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If you don't want to use the rope, give it to a chemist climber.
Someone who prefers facts to superstition.
Superstition? Neither he nor the hypothetical chemist know for certain what is in that fluid that his rope marinated in all day.
What does a person who "prefers facts" do whe reliable facts are not available? Perhaps, if in addition to facts they understand something about expected value, they will take the consequences of their options into account.
Dude, kiss that rope goodbye and buy a new one. It may be fine, but if it isn't, then you (or in a sense even worse) your partner, or the fact-preferring chemist, is dead.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Aug 19, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
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I gotta agree that Werner is presenting a logical approach to empirically determine whether or not there would be problems.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 19, 2018 - 06:59pm PT
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what are the requirements for labeling windshield wiper fluid?
who knows exactly what's in that stuff?
I'm not superstitious, I am skeptical of what's on the label. If I buy windshield wiper fluid from Fisher Scientific I'm going to get a pretty good list of what it is I'm buying. Probably not so much from O'Reilly's Auto Parts.
Could be the rope is entirely OK, like I asked: who wants to risk it?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 19, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
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phyllp was surprised by some of the things on the list...
I'm not a chemist, I don't like it when my ropes get contaminated with unknown stuff...
I climb with my ropes a lot, and a long time too, but if something happens to them outside of climbing I usually retire them.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 19, 2018 - 07:41pm PT
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Nice, Ed, blame it on the Irish!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 19, 2018 - 07:46pm PT
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Something for those fact-preferring chemists, from http://www.mytendon.com/adverse-effects-of-car-fluids-on-mountaineering-ropes
A considerable reduction of the number of falls can be seen with the brake fluid, the antifreezing mixture for radiators and the summer windshield washer fluid. If a used rope is contaminated with those chemicals, we recommend not to use it any longer. The reduction of the number of falls due to wear and subsequent contamination could have fatal consequences.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 19, 2018 - 07:59pm PT
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OMG !!!! one fall less lol.
We used to tape over our rope core shots and keep climbing on those ropes, Bridwell taught us that. lol.
Not recommended for the faint of heart or the paranoid.
Damn even jumared on the core of the rope itself, meh.
Don't fall was the motto.
Modern climbers fall all over the place now a daze
Soo st00pid.
After 100 falls and hangs "I finally did my latest project" is the new motto, lol.
Whatever ....... ha hah ha
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 19, 2018 - 08:04pm PT
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OMG !!!! one fall less lol.
OMG !!! 20% reduction in the capacity of a brand new rope!
...The reduction of the number of falls DUE TO WEAR AND SUBSEQUENT CONTAMINATION could have fatal consequences.
Werner's point seems to be that if you are cool climbing with a rope with taped core shots, then soaking a rope in washer fluid isn't going to stop you. Fair enough...
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Aug 19, 2018 - 08:17pm PT
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I'm with Werner. Still unsure then slice it a long its length, find an obscure area. If it looks good inside then tape it up and go have fun. :-)
Honestly soak it in some water and dry it. If you still feel you can break/snap that rope, which you can't then retire it.
S...
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DanaB
climber
CO
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Aug 19, 2018 - 08:25pm PT
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what are the requirements for labeling windshield wiper fluid?
who knows exactly what's in that stuff?
Good points. I don't have the experience with SDS (formerly called MSDS) other people here do, but while at work I often need to use them. From what I have seen of product labeling and SDS, I personally would not rely on either one as the final determinant for deciding if a rope is safe/not safe to use after contact with something.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Aug 19, 2018 - 08:39pm PT
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MSDS can be helpful or confusing. I had to order play sand and it came with an MSDS that to a lay person could seem like plutonium.
Retire the rope and climb on your partners rope a few years. In the mean time try breaking the thing and post up what you find. Fun topic not being my rope. :-)
S...
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Bale
Mountain climber
UT
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Aug 19, 2018 - 10:10pm PT
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 19, 2018 - 10:18pm PT
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In the CP Nylon compatibility chart, ethanol and ethylene glycol get an A=excellent rating, but methanol and methyl alcohol (10%) get a B = Good, Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration rating with a somewhat unclear footnote, "Satisfactory to 72°F (22°C)" Since the car almost certainly got a lot hotter than that, we are presumably out of the satisfactory range.
I looked at a few MSD sheets for washer fluids; all the ones I found indicated methanol. There isn't even a shred of statistical validity to my sampling.
I'd say the potential for "slight corrosion" caused by the presence of methanol fits with the Tendon tests that found a 20% reduction in total rope capacity.
I made my "superstitions" known before checking any of this and see no need to repeat them. Now some facts have been added, but of course how important they are is a matter of interpretation, and either way of interpreting may be subject to bias caused by having already taken a position.
At this point, as whataboutism starts to head off course, I'd say that the OP has about as much useful information and opinions as he's going to get. Best of luck to you, Jake, and be safe...
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Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
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Aug 20, 2018 - 06:29am PT
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I try to let only granite, sandstone, rainwater, aluminum biers, and pure thoughts touch my ropes.
And snow and ice. Snow and ice are OK.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 20, 2018 - 07:04am PT
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When this troll started I pointed out this rope's integrity became suspect way before it was spilled on, when this (blankety blank) got it.
it became a -gym cord-, Only rope.
As danger says,
I've never let my ropes anywhere near products of any kind!
Especially, never 'foreign' liquids,
never mind anything capable of corrupting the integrity of the strength/durability of my
Life Lines.
The new 'modern' ropes, the skinny cords I've climbed on,
are silky but not sturdy they do seem soft. like planned opalescence?
I also have a 1975 150 foot red, yellow & blue Mummut 9m! & use it too.
It is Light weight, supple but continuous-weave durable stiff sheath,
i don't test it but it still has good stretch, it is my favorite lead rope.
I often tie into the middle and climb on both strands, for my short leads.
I have a work horse, that I did cut the ends off. 20 feet, 10 off each end. It is almost all black, a "Maxum" (New England Ropes?)
A 9.8 that was 'new' on sale as old stock bought from Sierra Trading Post in 1999.& this one k, for sale - I guess.
As Erudite Duck points out,
We Russians climb on duct tapped sheaths.
On core shot cord to single point belays above the apron,
We are just glad it is not 90 feet of goldline.
When Fish gets around to it, he will point out that factory coil
& that my gear will never ware out, it never gets climbed with. . .
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 20, 2018 - 08:18am PT
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This is unacceptable. WTF is this place coming to?
Yer gonna die
You're gonna die
You're going to die
These are all acceptable
you forgot "Yur gunna die"
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 20, 2018 - 08:45am PT
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Personally, I would wash the rope in cow sh!t since cow sh!t is pure antisceptic and you'll be totally bomber after that .....
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Aug 20, 2018 - 10:51pm PT
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Gas,diesel oil......etc have no significant effect on ropes except acid
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
The fake McCoy from nevernever land.
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Aug 21, 2018 - 01:10am PT
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Dude! Wtf?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2018 - 03:38am PT
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My opinion as a professional chemist is the rope should have sustained no damage. Don't want the rope? Send it to me and I'll use it.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 21, 2018 - 08:32am PT
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If professional chemists really can't get the pH of water right, there is ample reason for climbers who know nothing about chemistry to be cautious about recommendations from professional chemists. (Sorry Brokedown...)
On top of this is what seems to this non-professional chemist to be a confusion about whether or not something is an "acid" and whether or not it has an "effect."
My non-professional take is that evidence for "effect" has shown up in the CP sheet listing "slight corrosion" as an consequence of exposure to methanol, and the Tendon rope company tests that found a reduction in total rope capacity and recommended retiring the rope.
Whether that effect comes from the acidity of methanol or some other mechanism is indeed a subject for the professional chemists, but climbers trying to make rational decisions still have to deal with the presence of an effect.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 21, 2018 - 08:37am PT
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Why all this hand wringing and gnashing of teeth over chemistry? Shouldn’t the discussion be about whether a human life is worth $200?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 21, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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I agree Reilly, which is why my original post, subsequently labeled as "superstition," was just that I wouldn't use the rope!
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sempervirens
climber
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Aug 21, 2018 - 09:16am PT
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Personally, I would wash the rope in cow sh!t since cow sh!t is pure antisceptic and you'll be totally bomber after that .....
Nah. That's just gross materialism. Quit yer quacking and read the Bhagavad Gita.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Aug 21, 2018 - 11:09am PT
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Malemute, fwiw, I've been with you the whole way.
Where's the common sense here, lol. Check out the suspect area on the rope, run it through your fingers for any signs of oxidation, weathering, aging, etc. If concerned, keep an eye on it for awhile. If still concerned months later, take it to the gym and fall it on a few times.
Sheesh.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Aug 21, 2018 - 12:04pm PT
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I offered a simple solution to the problem: send me the rope and "I'll do the testing." That is, use the rope. Simply washing the rope will "fix everything."
Seriously, if the rope is fairly new, and you are worried about it, make it your toprope rope. Then take a couple small deliberate falls on it. Should be NO issues, but the rope manufacturers are always there to sell you a new one...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 21, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
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I always thought that "whipper fluid" was the urine you passed in a big fall,..
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Aug 21, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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According to my knowledge of chemistry this rope should be OK (I had a bit of experience with polymers and solvents as a part of my research).
However in practice I would throw this rope away (based on my gut feeling rather than based on knowledge). :(
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| Messages 1 - 48 of total 48 in this topic |
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