Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 88 of total 88 in this topic |
Conner
Mountain climber
Lafayette, CO
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 22, 2018 - 07:12pm PT
|
We are pleased to announce that Connie Self and Jeff Lowe have reached an amicable agreement for moving forward with their businesses and their award-winning documentary Film Jeff Lowe's Metanoia. Ownership in both the film and Adaptable Man, LLC is 51% to Connie Self and 49% to Jeff Lowe. They will work together as 50/50 decision-making partners and Connie will run the day to day operations, as has been done for many years.
Connie Self will continue as the Director of OHIT, Inc and the Jeff Lowe Mountain Foundation, the 501c3 nonprofit organization they have run together for many years.
The Jeff Lowe Mountain Foundation remains in good standing and continues to accept donations.
Thank you for your incredible support for so many years. We sincerely hope you can support us once again as we move forward with a renewed commitment to our award-winning documentary film Jeff Lowe's Metanoia, the Jeff Lowe Mountain Foundation, and to lifelong learning from the many opportunities that life presents to us.
With Love and Gratitude,
Connie Self and Jeff Lowe
|
|
JelloFellow
climber
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
|
Thanks for posting the notice, Connie...onward and upward!
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
|
I'm happy that you were able to work thisout
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2018 - 07:50pm PT
|
I am very glad to see that you folks have worked out a mutual agreement & that your lives can go on.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2018 - 08:28pm PT
|
Well done, Connie and Jeff!
Berg heil!
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
|
Best wishes to both of you!!!
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
|
hey there, say... wow... :) ...good to see it all settled, and the future can go into good things, smoothly, now... and jeff's project will keep on keeping on... :)
best wishes and stronger health to jello!
best wishes and good trails to connie!
|
|
Jim Clipper
climber
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2018 - 09:56pm PT
|
I got 9. Dont think I deserve it.
Edit: 9
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2018 - 05:04am PT
|
Definitely good news for both of you. Congratulations on the hard work of working this out.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2018 - 05:38am PT
|
Cheers!
|
|
Jim Clipper
climber
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2018 - 07:47am PT
|
do good one percenter... there, i said it. best wishes!!!
no insult meant to anyone. if you give it up, while working for the good of each other, i respect you way
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2018 - 10:10am PT
|
Fingers crossed.
|
|
Yeti
Trad climber
Ketchum, Idaho
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
|
Jeff/Connie: Congratulations! Keep on truckin' and smiling and never looking back. All best.....Yeti
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 01:30am PT
|
hey there say...
:(
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 01:36am PT
|
Sad news about Jeff’s passing today.
The film is a wonderful tribute to the amazing pioneer.
( link removed)
|
|
zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 04:45am PT
|
Thanks for posting up the video.
|
|
Berner
Mountain climber
Switzerland
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 08:11am PT
|
Sad to hear abut the news - and glad to had the chance to spend some time with Jeff
As much as I enjoy seeing the film where I had the pleasure to help filming, I also think it is not fair to publish this illegal pirate-version.
|
|
Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 10:07am PT
|
Here's what his daughter posted:
The other thing my dad, Jeff, wanted, was to leave behind a legacy for his granddaughter, Valentina, as well as the rest of the world, by sharing his experience on Metanoia not for a profit, but for a purpose-to enlighten others as to what he experienced. To honor his life, achievements, and contributions to both the climbing world and the universe as a whole, and so his beloved granddaughter always remembers him with as much pride as she does today. Here is the film, for free, as my dad wished so that his legacy can live on as he envisioned: (link removed)
RIP, Jeff. What a legacy!
|
|
Berner
Mountain climber
Switzerland
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 10:20am PT
|
I know what she posted, but still doesn't make it okay. There are a lot of people that spend a lot of effort - say tome and money - to make that film happen and it is easy possible to see it in in a legal way. At least in the USA
|
|
Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 11:05am PT
|
Wow, that film totally blew me away. It was excellent. Amazing story and story telling, and excellent film making. Even though I didn't have the time to watch it, I couldn't stop, and am (hopefully) better for it.
I most likely would have never seen it if hadn't been posted here. Thanks Deucey, and all who made the film, and most of all, Jeff Lowe and family. Thank you for putting something so beautiful into the world.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 11:09am PT
|
Blew me away too. Everyone makes mistakes. Its what you do with them that counts. Good on Jeff.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 11:23am PT
|
I know what she posted, but still doesn't make it okay. There are a lot of people that spend a lot of effort - say tome and money - to make that film happen and it is easy possible to see it in in a legal way. At least in the USA
My guess is those involved in the movie's production would follow along with Jeff and his daughter's wish in his honor.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 11:26am PT
|
The link to the film is the one Jeff’s daughter posted on Facebook, not me. She said it was Jeff’s wish to share.
The film is a great tribute to a great man. Jeff was always very open with his ideas, he and I discussed a number of innovations together over the years, and with original work he was always primarily interested in helping the climbing community progress and advance with techniques and tools.
Jeff and Catherine had one of our early A5 double portaledge prototypes on Trango. Bridwell was also on that trip filming. We all collaborated back then openly, fun times. Different world these days.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 11:50am PT
|
As mentioned, I think the link provided by Jeff’s daughter is on the up and up, but of course Chris or I can delete the post here if there is any request to do so.
Edit—this was in response to a deleted post where the poster agreed the film is meant to be shared, but also had some history about the film, of which i was unaware.
Edit, edit—just saw a Facebook post by Connie, who apparently is part owner of film, who says the link is pirated. Sad, but I will remove my earlier post in response to this information, even though it is still on YouTube.
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 12:51pm PT
|
Thank you Jeff Lowe for your positive influence.
Best to his family and loved ones.
|
|
Berner
Mountain climber
Switzerland
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 01:07pm PT
|
Edit, edit—just saw a Facebook post by Connie, who apparently is part owner of film, who says the link is pirated. Sad, but I will remove my earlier post in response to this information
That's why I mentioned the link. I am totally in favour of spreading the impressive story of Jeff and I am honoured to have been able to contribute a little to the film
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
|
Apparently it will be on iTunes soon. Even though I just saw it, I plan to buy it as well. It is an amazing inspiring film.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
|
I'm glad that I got to see the film. Its doubtful that I would have gotten to see it otherwise without the link here. Jeff is an inspiration. There are things in the film that I wish I had known sooner. I would have liked to talk to Jeff about them.
I do understand removing the link, I'm just glad that I got to see it.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 03:08pm PT
|
Apparently it will be on iTunes soon. That would be great, but hopefully not for the $50 the DVD was selling for, nobody will buy it and nobody will hear his story. Not that I don't mind chipping in - but the bizarre airing of dirty laundry by the people around him during and after that film was made didn't really present a situation I wanted to toss my money into.
|
|
John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 04:47pm PT
|
I would be happy to buy it again through iTunes, since there was a postage snafu involving my DVD and I never received it. Hopefully, I get to see it one day!
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
|
I ordered the DVD when they were raising money for it and never received my copy, not a big deal I just wanted to help Jeff. Watched it on Youtube just now and was blown away with how good it was. Hard to watch without getting a little misty in the eyes in parts. Condolences to his family and friends and may he rest in peace.
|
|
zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2018 - 05:23pm PT
|
"Not that I don't mind chipping in - but the bizarre airing of dirty laundry by the people around him during and after that film was made didn't really present a situation I wanted to toss my money into."
BOOOOOM!!!
Exactly.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 03:00pm PT
|
Sorry, but there are people grieving, and I don’t think it is right to repost the details. If people want to express themselves directly, so be it, but commentary is not necessary. My heart goes out to all involved.
|
|
Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 04:10pm PT
|
why doesn't jeff have the 51%?
Smart move. If the majority owner is a woman or minority there are corporate perks.
I would really like to see this film in a proper way.
---
Jeff is free of the defects of that body. Somewhere in the distance, a new climber is born. In time, new records will be broken.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
|
For those of you without Facebook
TMI. This is a family matter and should not be aired out on the internet. Sonja may have justified grievances, the internet is not the place to air them.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
|
The movie is on YouTube. It's easy to find. Jeff's family put there. IMO, go enjoy it. I found it worthy.
The legality is none of our concern or business to pick through. Sounds ugly, though.
If it is later determined you viewed a pirate copy, then by all means go pay for it.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
|
Sonja may have justified grievances, the internet is not the place to air them.
Tough sh!t for you and I'm sooo glad Sonja aired those grievances.
|
|
AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 04:49pm PT
|
I find it sad that in the last few weeks Jeff was spending time on this.
Of course it went on for years but the last few weeks are when a person should be concentrating on getting ready for the end, not on squabbles.
With Tom and Jeff we lost 2 true heroes in the last week.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
|
Tough sh!t for you and I'm sooo glad Sonja aired those grievances.
I kind of agree; may be be cathartic for Sonja and calling Connie out is a good thing. Guess I'm just not a fan of this kind of stuff. "Tough sh#t for you"? Doesn't affect me in any way.
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 05:09pm PT
|
Am am saddened that Sonja has to deal with this. But I will not judge here for airing her views. I am glad that she and her father had a wonderful relationship and were able to say goodbye. The one beautiful thing about death is how close it brings people together. i.e, John McCain, Jim Bridwell. Dave Y. is right, hug your family and friends tightly.
Seems like Connie started this thread, might be a matter of time before it is nuked.
|
|
BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 05:24pm PT
|
Although I never met Jeff, I honor him for his climbing accomplishments and for the life that he lived as a climber. I am deeply saddened to learn of his last year(s), allegedly receiving abuse from a partner who had supposedly loved him...
When I think of him, my thoughts of admiration go to him up on the Eiger...or on innumerable other climbs that he did...
Altho I would probably enjoy this movie, isn't it only entertainment? We who have done our own climbs have our own experiences to remember and to reflect upon. I would not financially support a viewing of this movie, however excellent, if it also supported someone who abused Jeff Lowe.
just sayin'... Ken Boche
|
|
couchmaster
climber
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
|
More than being an amazing climber Jeff Lowe was an amazing man. He brought good to the world in so many ways. Nothing anyone says otherwise will change this one iota. This should be a thread of positivity, Jeff would want nothing less. It's how he lived his life, and we should all respect that.
|
|
Bale
Mountain climber
UT
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 07:17pm PT
|
I like the movie. They could have made it a “superhero climber battles ALS with same determination that he used on Alpine faces”, but they delved into his human, imperfect life as a husband and father as well.
If the allegations against Connie are true, I find them unspeakably sad.
RIP Jeff.
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 07:29pm PT
|
I have been friends with Jeff & Connie for the last few years.
When their relationship fell apart last spring, I contacted a close friend, who knew much more about the break-up, for the inside story.
It appears that the break-up has another story, which I am not qualified to share, but Connie may not be the villain that some folks, are trying to make her.
My condolences to all involved.
|
|
Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 09:11pm PT
|
In my experience, it's dangerous territory to delve into any personal relationship... no one truly knows what's going on other than the two involved.
I spent days with both Jeff and Connie in the last month, and the only thing I have to add to this thread (which has taken an unfortunate and destructive turn) is that both of them had kind hearts and good intentions. I developed a strong bond with each - and neither of those bonds were based on discussion about their relationship.
My respect for both remains, and it's a pity to see the gossip and opinions here rather than the simple honoring of Jeff's life. Peace and Fireball Cheers from this girl.... ;)
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 09:15pm PT
|
Tamara! Thank you for your insider's view.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 10:33pm PT
|
I would like to add that I too have known both Jeff and Connie and there are definitely two sides to this story. Unfortunately there is also money involved. Regardless of personal feelings, the issue of the video will again be resolved through court order as it legally was in the recent past. I would also point out that ALS can affect the mind as well as the body.
The airing of this in public and people's willingness to jump to conclusions only dishonors the memory of Jeff whom I spent two afternoons with only a week or so before he died. He himself was full of wit, good humor and optimism at that time. His brave legacy is what we should remember, not the problems of the people around him.
|
|
ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2018 - 11:20pm PT
|
All I can say is "Tamara For President" !
Seriously.
|
|
Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2018 - 01:13am PT
|
Hesitantly typing, as this fire needs no more lint. And though it strikes a personal chord, "it"'s not always about ME (dastardly thing, the realization of that - but there's prob another thread on that topic (that was a laugh at myself, for the uber-serious)).
I am acutely aware of the toll that caregiving extracts, and, that impact is especially significant when the one needing care is beloved.
Decided to chime in on this thread as my personal contact, and relationships, with Jeff and Connie lead to contemplation with consideration for both. My impression - regardless of the publicly aired crap show - is that they are/were two people. With love and tribulations and everything else.... Who did and are doing their best. Period.
I do not presume to know Sonja or her situation, but can say with certainty that it would not change anything I've "said" here (for those quick to be aggravated, I'm NOT saying her story is unworthy of respect).
Here's to a peaceful resolution of whatever needs resolved, and to Jeff being above and beyond it all now - chilling with the extraordinary cast who likely are winking at us, saying, "hey peeps, just go climbing ffs"
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2018 - 06:52am PT
|
+1 for Tamara - relationships are indeed very complicated, and sometimes yelling happens to communicate in some of them - money can make things even harder.
Regardless of everything, credit is due to anyone who gives a piece of their life to pushing someone around in a wheelchair and literally wiping thier butt - can’t knock that person too much.
The relationship and money chaos that was aired in the movie appears to have carried on to the end. Can’t really blame any of that on one person. It is what it is, still an amazing life.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
|
This is the dark side of social media - where deeply personal affairs are publically aired out and in turn a trial of sorts is conducted on-line - despite the best intentions - I'm sure - of Jeff's people.
Life, death and money get the best of the best of us somtimes. I have fond memories of both Jeff and Connie. I'll hang onto those and let the rest go. It's none of my business and I won't make it mine.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
|
I hesitate to post anything in the context of other people's personal matter with ongoing suffering. I hope there is something redeeming in what I choose to write.
I personally have experienced my breaking point and resultant anger in a relationship when I didn't give myself permission to walk away. It got better when I dug deep into my emotional issues, but in the end it was not enough. It didn't really get better until I gave myself permission to walk away.
The decision to walk away in a situation where a person you love has a deep and ongoing need to be cared for (whether that need is real or projected), that gets messier. I don't trust that I would personally rise to a standard that I would be proud of, even at this supposedly more mature state of my development, based on what I have already seen of myself and my ex-spouse when constrained in a relationship that wasn't meeting either of our needs.
For that reason, I have no business judging anybody.
Abuse is abuse, victims need support to get out of it. Children of victims are also scarred. When people need to be continually cared for, even when friends don't show up and even when family doesn't show up and there isn't enough money to pay for as much help as is needed- someone has to get it done. The commitment to that earns respect that cannot be fully appreciated except by people who have carried similar responsibilities (which I haven't). All kinds of other stuff can be at play here. Everything is not black and white. We can all be angels and devils.
RIP Jeff. I hope each of the people who were close to him and cared about him find their own peace and acceptance, and a way back to love and forgiveness for the other people he cared about. One silver lining of all this- any party involved is free to walk away at this point. The shackles of money are lesser than the shackles of love for a person in need.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2018 - 03:56pm PT
|
It's none of my business and I won't make it mine.
My thinking as well.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2018 - 06:27pm PT
|
Everyone close to Jeff needs support right now. Seems like the peanut gallery (that we are all part of here) debate and opinioning on the intentions, comments, and thoughts of the people who are deeply grieving cannot be considered quality support. I sincerely hope mutual friends can, in time, help mediate the differences, and everyone can move forward. Strife after death slows the spirit from moving on.
|
|
Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2018 - 06:42pm PT
|
Thoughtful post Nut...as usual-thanks.
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
|
Aug 28, 2018 - 09:50pm PT
|
It is possible to believe without passing judgement. Forgiveness is the hardest thing in life, and the most challenging after a loved one passes.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2018 - 05:49am PT
|
it’s okay for the guy to call it out loud Except he didn’t, it was the daughter.
I read the sordid documents posted to Facebook and I just didn’t see much more than that there was some yelling, then Jeff eventually grew tired of it and left on his own. Meanwhile the daughter made a drama of it. It all sounds really messy, complicated and none of our business.
|
|
Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2018 - 06:49am PT
|
My heart-felt thanks to Nut and Largo for posting their bit of wisdom. I wasn't there and therefore cannot judge what was or was not acceptable. Like Nut I too have sometimes manifested poor behavior in relationships despite best intentions and I have worked to improve on that score - we are all human and we all screw it up sometimes. Caring for others is indeed hard work.
I will choose to honor Jeff's memory with this tiny vignette: My mates and I were at the base of some ice climb in Provo Canyon in the mid-1970's when Jeff walked up and greated us (Jeff was breaking barriers on ice on a regular basis in those years and we all knew it). We chatted a bit as we tied in and racked up. We knew who Jeff was but we were just dudes no body knew. Jeff was just a totally down-to-earth dude who shared our passion for the frozen steep. He was outstandingly supportive of our efforts and genuinely friendly, then wandered off to do something spectacular (Stairway to Heaven I think it was).
Rest in Peace Jeff, you truly were The Man.
|
|
Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
|
Abuse subject aside (which I'm actually unclear about.... Connie being abused by Jeff? Jeff by Connie? Connie by Sonja? Sonja by Jeff? etc....) Here are my thoughts.
I've, personally, not known mudslinging to be a common characteristic of grief over the loss of a loved one...yes, we all grieve in our own ways - but in my experience genuine sorrow isn't in concert with lashing out. Frankly, those two things have distant foundations from one other. Personal vendettas provide a different launching pad - and should be perceived with caution.
Jeff told me in his final week, that he was sorrowful that he would NEVER obtain the forgiveness of his daughter. I am sorry that Sonja felt abandoned and hurt by her father. I'm equally sorry that Jeff's last months were spent in a futile attempt to amend a relationship that he himself said could never BE amended. (much of what's been posted paints a different picture of that relationship - what I'm stating is based solely on my first hand conversations with Jeff)
While the high ground is indeed what Largo posted, in all likelihood speculation will continue. Hopefully the words I'm writing will benefit clarity rather than fuel a fire. Jeff would not want to be exempted from culpability here, he expressed many regrets to me - he owned those. We all make choices that define our lives, and have perceptions and perspectives that shape our reactions and actions. Every person has some responsibility for where they are at. (yup i accept the potential of being lambasted for that statement - via those who buy into a very first-world interpretation of the word "victim". So be it.)
My intention is not to judge, but to offer a dimensional layer to these murky waters. IMO, tip your hat or raise a glass to Jeff, send Sonja and Connie (and all the others who were close to Jeff) strength, peace, and love... and go bask in the joys of life! (or, on a lighter note, just take a swig of Fireball - "it freshens the breath and the attitude".... ) ;)
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
|
To back up Tamara, I visited Jeff twice in his final week, once with Tamara and once on my own. Jeff and I were "climbing friends" as he described me to his doctors. On the other hand, it was clear that he and Tamara had a much closer bond and that he confided in her. I personally trust what she says about the situation.
I do know that Connie kept Jeff alive at home for 8 years and saw him through many near death experiences through the close watch she kept on his many medical problems. Once she was made unwelcome, it was only a short time before Jeff was institutionalized, and a month later he was in the hospital. He left the hospital free of infection (I heard the doctors go over his lab results with him). He was looking forward to a private room which he could use as his office to finish his book. He was in a good mood and making fun of his brother Greg for being a pessimist and worrying about him too much. A week later, after he was transferred to a nursing facility to be near Sonya and Valentine, he was dead. You can draw your own conclusions about who took better care of Jeff.
The only advice I can give to the situation is that I hope all concerned, can eventually come to forgive each other and perhaps themselves, for not being perfect human beings. Clearly they all loved Jeff each in their own way.
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 07:03pm PT
|
Tamara & Jan!
Thank you again for posting yet again, some of what other Jeff Lowe & Coonie Self insiders have shared with me about the ups & downs of their relationship.
I appreciate you folks attempting to calm, what has distressed me as, a "lynch-mob" reaction here, to Jeff's daughter's allegations of abuse by Connie.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 07:24pm PT
|
Edited out.
I hope you are right Fritz. I still believe that Tamara's post is out of balance, but I will delete what I wrote.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 07:47pm PT
|
Edit: this post is in response to a post that has now been deleted. I am leaving my post as it is germane to the rest of my posts.
What experience do you have with abusive relationships? My sister was married to a man who was abusive. I didn't like him, but I didn't see the abuse and my sister hid it. I didn't learn of it until after she divorced him. Many many people liked him and couldn't believe that he could abuse anyone. I also dated a woman for 4 years who is a therapist and her specialty was rape counseling and counseling women who are in abusive relationships. I have been good friends with her for more then 25 years, So I have learned a lot. I have also been in a relationship with a woman who tried to cut me off from my family and friends by spreading lies. So I have a pretty fair amount of experience with this subject.
That said..
If Jan says delete, then I will delete. I trust her opinion a whole lot more then I do yours.
|
|
Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
|
John I appreciate the tone of your response.... thank you for that. There is much more to all of this than hopefully will ever be aired here or elsewhere, as it need not be. We are neither judge nor jury.
I think, or hope, that my words have reflected this - my intentions have certainly not been to present an answer, as I don't deem myself fit to make such determinations. Have only wanted to add a dimension, as stated in my last post.
I do know that said allegations were investigated and could not be substantiated.
As far as Jeff speaking for himself, you are correct he could not "speak" but typed prolifically (and humorously) and expressed no negativity to me in regards to either Connie or the care she provided for many years. He expressed many emotions and personal matters, but that was not one of them. As I've stated, my comments are purely reflections of our conversations. I have no reason to question that they were anything but HIS truth.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
|
Fair enough Tamara. Thank you for your reply. It just struck me like you were ignoring that 5 healthcare professionals found it necessary to report possible abuse. As for no abuse being found. It is very difficult to prove this, especially if the person being abused doesn't want anything bad to happen to the abuser, which happens a lot. Thats often because there is love involved.
I will say again. I do not know what happened. If I caused you pain Tamera, then I would be happy to delete my post if you want me to. I just have a real problem when it looks to me like abuse is being swept aside. Especial towards someone who is dependent.
|
|
Tamara Robbins
climber
not a climber, just related...
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 08:34pm PT
|
John, if I ever suffer "pain" from supertopo threads, then hopefully someone will remind me (swift kick in the ass) to keep a healthy perspective ;)
Everyone is entitled to their views, their rants, and much more - ST is a forum I enjoy because it allows for all of the above.
Our perspectives are based on our experiences, so inevitably they vary. And how boring would it be if we all agreed, anyhow?!
;)
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
|
Thank you Tamara.. I was primarily thinking in terms of anyone else involved in the situation that I might have unknowingly caused pain to. I did not believe that I caused you pain as I believe that you are a tough person. You seem to know the situation more then I do, so if my post could bring unnecessary pain, then I would be happy to delete.
I do want to add that I am hoping that those who know Sonja will reach out to her. To me, posting this problem on Facebook on an open page is a kind of cry for help. I believe Jeff would have wanted the community to reach out to her. Especially those who knew the people involved.
Edit: this in no way means that I want people to take sides. I do not. I simply want to make certain that Sonja is receiving support from the community.
|
|
Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 10:05pm PT
|
John M: As you have noted, I deleted my "in your face" posts about what I believe is your one-sided posts to this thread, in hopes that you will delete yours.
Per your most recent post:
Edit: this in no way means that I want people to take sides. I do not. I simply want to make certain that Sonja is receiving support from the community.
I think you have taken sides, since you apparently believe the unfounded allegations that Sonja has made about Connie, & you are showing no sympathy to Connie, who sacrificed her own lifestyle to love & give care to Jeff for many years.
Please open your eyes to what Tamara & Jan said.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2018 - 10:58pm PT
|
I edited it Fritz..
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2018 - 08:08am PT
|
I hope you are right You took the daughter’s words for fact but they are not, just emotional perception. I ignored and read through the other documents - and I just did not see much there. Connie is a yeller, is all, and Jeff eventually left on his own. +1, keeping someone diseased and wheelchair bound healthy and alive is a big deal and Connie was doing it - and it sounded like one reason she was yelling at the end is that the others taking her place were not keeping it up, neither was Jeff - ie, the O2.
|
|
zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2018 - 12:06pm PT
|
No winners in a nuclear war.
This thread should be deleted.
|
|
Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
|
I am a friend of both Connie and Jeff and am deeply saddened that the relationship between the two ended as it did.
Jeff must be admired for the courageous way he handled the lousy hand he was dealt at the end of his life. But, based on my own observations, I admire Connie just as much for her courage and perseverance in being his primary, and sometimes sole, caregiver, for many of the last years of Jeff’s life.
Jeff required extreme levels of medical and personal care: he could do almost nothing for himself. The first time I visited Jeff, I had volunteered to give Connie a brief respite so she could go out and do some errands. I was with a medical professional and we both left amazed at how difficult it was to care for Jeff. At that time, Connie was on duty 24/7 and she looked it: frazzled, little sleep-what with alarms and warnings from medical equipment that seemed to go off constantly, and she was anxious for a bit of help so she could get a break for a couple of hours. The person I was with commented that it looked like Connie was running a hospital’s intensive care unit--all by herself.
On another occasion when Jeff was in the hospital and near death, I stayed until pretty late at night. I reflected that while I could go home and rest, Connie would stay in that grim hospital corridor indefinitely. I couldn’t believe how she was there for Jeff, day after day, night after night. To me, it demonstrated an incredible love for him.
I think it should be recognized what remarkable and selfless actions Connie took in caring for Jeff. I suspect I would have failed at such a herculean job; she succeeded and never gave up voluntarily.
|
|
eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2018 - 01:23pm PT
|
Great post, Rick! That very much conforms with my remembrances. Four years ago, I would spend a day a week working (at my job) for a good part of the day at Connie and Jeff's apartment, ostensibly to give Connie a little bit of a break. As it turned out, Connie almost never took advantage of it. I would see her multitasking all day long on Jeff's behalf. She was a whirlwind of activity; on the phone constantly, advocating for Jeff while various care professionals and helpers would come and go at Connie's direction. I remember feeling sorry at times for the person on the other end of the phone conversation while at the same time marveling at her strong will.
Ultimately, I couldn't work from home anymore and, regrettably, did not continue to keep up. I would never in a million years have guessed that it would have ended up like this.
|
|
SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2018 - 04:19pm PT
|
I was there with Connie on many nights, trying to give her some rest while I stood in for her. I can only speak of the time that I spent there, and Connie was the absolute best. She and Jeff yelled at each other a few times (in the six months I helped care for Jeff), but it was so he would do what was necessary to prolong his life. I can't imagine the stress Connie withstood--it burned me out after 6 months of twice a week taking care of Jeff. Jeff was gracious and unbelievably strong, but Connie was strong also. I can't say enough about Connie's devotion to
Jeff. As I've said before, rest in peace, Jeff. You gave it the good fight. I was honored to be able to help he and Connie in the little way I could. Connie deserves a medal for the care giving she did.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Family,..... sheesh!!
I have seen much of what lies beneath the surface of this (Jeff confided in me 5 years ago). What matters now is that Jeff is well remembered, and that his daughter and grand-daughter thrive.
Looks like Connie will do ok.
Hopefully not much more agro.
Metanoia is a moving film. Perhaps best amended by simply adding when he died,..
|
|
oreo19
climber
|
|
I forgave my father and told him that many times. He struggled to forgive himself, but he knew I forgave him. We discussed this many times. In fact, I never really felt anything but love for him. He was my dad, after all, and you only get one dad. I’m grateful Val got to spend over 8 years getting to know her grandpa, and she is mourning the loss of him as well. She told me she’s happy for him today because he’s in a better place and no longer suffering, yet she had a very hard time during his passing and slept outside with him so she could be there with him when he died on his last night, until the sprinklers turned on around 4 am because she was in the grass. She loved him very much.
It’s very difficult to grieve “normally” given the circumstances but I’m doing my best, as is my daughter.
Thanks to all for your support and love for my dad, as well as the shared memories.
Love Sonja
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
giving birth to someone isn't parenting. Jeff admits his mistakes in the movie Metanoia.
Sonja, I am hoping the best for you and your daughter. We are all very sorry for your loss. You have a place here in this tribe if you want it, and can stand the prickliness. Climbers tend to say whats on their mind. ;-)
|
|
oreo19
climber
|
|
I agree and was only responding to a post that said something along the lines of Sonja will never forgive her dad. I told him I forgave him because he felt guilty but also told him many times he didn’t need to feel guilty and that I didn’t resent him for anything. I’m a parent too and am not perfect by any means. Luckily my daughter still loves me anyway.
People can say whatever awful things they want about me, and anything I say will definitely be used against me so I shouldn’t even respond but it’s hard not to. I was my dad’s biggest advocate. It’s pretty terrible to say he was perfectly healthy and looking forward to a private room and then moved close to me and Val and a week later died, so who took better care of him... implying that I’m responsible for him dying in some way? Who says that to a daughter that just lost their father? I had to fight for weeks to get him that private room at a decent place and it was devastating that I barely got to spend any time with him once he finally got there. I am going to do my best to ignore the hurtful things being said about me because I enjoy reading all the stories and wonderful things about my dad which are mixed in with the negative things said by people who only just met him a month ago. It’s very hurtful though, I am a real person after all and I’m having a hard enough time as is because we were very close and my daughter was also very close to her grandpa. As anyone with children knows, it hurts just to see them in pain so right now my heart is completely broken for both myself and for Val. We really miss him.
One last thing is it is a fact that Connie abused my dad, and continued to do so even in these last few months. She had to be escorted out of the nursing home by their staff. Verbal abuse is still abuse, in my opinion, but there was physical abuse too. She admitted to punching him and my dad reported that she once threatened him with a butcher’s knife. My dad showed an incredible amount of strength in choosing to stand up for himself, especially given the circumstances, and he wanted people to know. He tried to tell everyone himself earlier this year but not as many people paid attention. It’s very hard for me to understand why some people don’t believe my dad but that’s neither here nor there. My dad was very clear with Connie that she was no longer to represent him personally or speak on his behalf as he wanted nothing more to do with her. My dad said to Connie
“I hope you will finally understand the damage you caused me with your abuse, Connie . As I told you more than once during your long screaming diatribes, I would rather be dead than trapped with you.” Now he is gone and I truly hope that people stop defending Connie and remember my dad for the person he was. He deserves to finally be free of his abuser.
|
|
Jim Clipper
climber
|
|
Maybe, ... if you feel low, look up at the snow capped mountains on a cold, clear winter morning. Your dad might be there too. Never give up.
Condolences to everyone close to him. Thanks for sharing some of his journey.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
a week later died Nature wins in the end. Getting older means more death and one common denominator I've experienced is questioning medical care at the very end. Should have, could have, did I do this wrong, etc. I don't think it matters. The end result is always the same. You have to act and make difficult decisions - but there is really no way to know, the body is too complicated, and everyone dies differently.
Seems possible to see the good Connie did w/o condoning an abusive dark side, which is what I'm reading here. Nobody appears to be taking sides. Jeff also said here, 3ish months ago "Connie worked heroically for years and we gave each other lots of love.", you can click on his profile up-thread.
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Having been through something of a dark relationship myself and how things end is never nice...I'll simply state that there are no "winners" at the end of that dark tunnel; only survivors.
My kudos to Jan, Tamara, and Fritz for their positions on this unhappy subject. Also my deepest condolences at the loss by family members, both past and present.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
|
|
I don’t have a lot of life rules, but not hitting dudes in wheelchairs would be one of them...
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
(Jody, please adjust your image size.)
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Russ, in HS when my wrist was still in a cast a guy thought it would be a pretty good time to pick a fight with me.
It went right to the ground where I nearly cracked his skull with the cast.
He left me alone even after the cast was removed.
|
|
oreo19
climber
|
|
Thank you guys for your kind comments... I might take you up on that offer, Robert L! My dad and I always wanted to go to Australia but never made it.
|
|
okay, whatever
climber
|
|
I knew Jeff a bit in the late 1970's in Boulder, and liked him though I know his relationships had difficulties, shall we say. My girlfriend, and later wife... Kitty Bradley... though we divorced in 1998, worked for LAS way back when, so I had some social connection with the Lowes. And come to think of it, I wrote catalog copy for LAS for a couple of years, though I had a "real" software job too. I remember Janie, and the pain that followed Jeff's taking up with Catherine Destivelle. Though I was not close with Jeff, I always found him to be very friendly, and mourn his passing.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
Many of us have had a hard time manageing the guy girl / relationshit part of life......
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
To borrow a line from Joseph Story:
"the mountains are a jealous mistress, and require a long and constant courtship. It is not to be won by trifling favours, but by a lavish homage."
|
|
| Messages 1 - 88 of total 88 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!