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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 12, 2018 - 08:24pm PT
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Many of you probably saw the news last week that a young man in Toronto had, over the course of almost a mile, killed ten people and injured fourteen more by driving into them with a van.
My first thought, probably the same for most of you, was that it was yet another act of religious/political terrorism.
But no. It's Incel terrorism.
Incel? WTF is "Incel"? Read on (from The Economist). This is beyond bizarre.
An involuntary celibate goes on a killing spree in Canada:
A mass murderer draws attention to a woman-hating subculture
HIS classmates thought he was harmless. But on the afternoon of April 23rd Alek Minassian, a 25-year-old computer programmer from Toronto, drove a van into lunchtime strollers, careering along for more than a kilometre, killing ten and injuring 14 others. His aim, apparently, was to murder women, because women would not have sex with him.
Beforehand, Mr Minassian posted a message on Facebook proclaiming: “The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all Chads and Stacys! All hail Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!” Canadians googled furiously to find out what this might mean.
They found that “incel” is short for involuntarily celibate. Members of this movement are furious that women (sometimes referred to as “Stacys”) won’t sleep with them. They also resent “Chads” (men who find it easy to get sex). They mostly confine themselves to grumbling in online chat-rooms. Some swap alarming fantasies of “revenge” through rape. A few idolise Elliot Rodger, who slaughtered six people during a misogynistic murder spree near the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara, before killing himself.
Mr Minassian’s victims were predominantly women, of all ages. He was arrested unharmed, after he tried to goad a police officer to shoot him in the head. Within hours, Canada’s federal public-safety minister, Ralph Goodale, declared that the attack posed no threat to national security. The Toronto police said they had no previous record of the suspect, who was charged with ten counts of murder and 13 of attempted murder.
Acquaintances of Mr Minassian said he was awkward around women and kept repeating that he was frightened of them. Perhaps because of his emotional disorders, he took seven years to complete a computing degree. He briefly enrolled in the Canadian army last year, but left two weeks into a four-month basic course, before he had been trained in weapons. Unlike the perpetrators of some recent terrorist attacks in Canada, Mr Minassian had no links with jihadism.
He is not Canada’s first woman-hating mass killer. Back in 1989, a man called Marc Lépine entered an engineering college in Montreal and shot and killed 14 women, after separating them from men, before killing himself. That prompted the government of the time to set up a national gun registry. In 2012, long guns were removed from the registry. No one knows how to stop homicidal men from hiring vans.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 13, 2018 - 12:22am PT
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Man, if every dirtbag climber who couldn't get laid started plowing into people with their vans it would be an extraordinary level of carnage.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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May 13, 2018 - 12:49am PT
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To the O.P. what did I learn from your post or should learn?
S...
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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May 13, 2018 - 06:37am PT
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^^^ People are, and will always be f'ed up.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 13, 2018 - 08:43am PT
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BITD they were just called losers. Now they’re special?
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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May 13, 2018 - 10:36am PT
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Chickless loser
The interesting thing is that many/majority of Islamic suicide bombers are virgins. It is thought the lack of sexual interaction in the Muslim culture leads to unbearable frustration for young men and some young women at a time in their lives that needs this sexual fix that makes psychotic fanaticism in a cause, no matter how twisted, perfectly reasonable.
Again, chickless (dudeless) losers
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 13, 2018 - 02:48pm PT
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America’s? You need to get out more, bro.
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HoMan
Trad climber
Wasteville,CA
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May 13, 2018 - 06:03pm PT
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No hookers in Canada eah?
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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May 13, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
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Cosmiccragsman has it right. Because people with a warped sense of value can commiserate, violent tendencies are fueled. Thankfully, acting on them is rare.
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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May 13, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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^^^^^^ now that is funny
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
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To the O.P. what did I learn from your post or should learn?
More the other way round. I was so baffled by the whole thing that I posted it in the hope that I might learn something from whatever responses the post generated.
Seriously. This comes from so far out in left field that it might as well be left field on some other planet. Who among us -- male or female -- hasn't gone through a dry spell at some point in our sex lives? But did any of us think that the solution to our problem was to kill as many people as possible?
So, yes: What did you learn? Or maybe better: What are your thoughts?
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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May 13, 2018 - 08:30pm PT
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Ghost! I've learned again that folks who don't interact socially with women in our culture & used to be defined as "nerds" can now find like-thinkers on the web.
If they hate & fear women, they can also find like-thinkers on the web.
(I am still very happy that ST management gave the boot to one of the misogynist men who used to post here.)
I've learned those folks can nurture violent fantasies in blog-sites with other nerds, then go out and kill a large number of humans.
Sigh.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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May 13, 2018 - 08:53pm PT
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Incel was the name originally proposed by the guys at micro_soft (soft & tiny?) for Excel
Excel won out because it sounded sexier
Look it up
Bill Gates will confirm this
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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May 14, 2018 - 03:25am PT
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"Going Postal" does seem to be an offshoot of, I guess I would say, alienation in modern society. Maybe social media gives feedbacks that amplify the phenomena, maybe not. In terms of the response of killing "random" people as a "solution" to some kind of psychological imbalance, I'm not sure "not getting laid" is really so different from the "reasons" other people commit mass murders of random people.
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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May 14, 2018 - 06:28am PT
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That Jim Jefferies piece was hilarious!
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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May 14, 2018 - 06:29am PT
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When does a dry spell become incel?
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 14, 2018 - 06:44am PT
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My feeling is that news about such events is over-reported. I am guessing that there is a kind of psychological contagion (the theme of a Robert Heinlein short story), and that people who commit that kind of crime often realize that they will become notorious.
I don't see a solution to the problem, but if all news reporting were done the way the BBC used to do it, it would be a duller but possibly safer world.
Occasionally, people ask me why I take so many pictures. They may suggest I try getting them to a larger audience. My photos are almost entirely just for me to watch on my screensaver as I listen to my music. However, if I did want my photos to get the public scrutiny they surely deserve, all I would have to do is...
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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May 14, 2018 - 07:29am PT
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Ghost, I was simply saying that in this day in age it is all about the headline. I have no doubts that this gentleman is/was very disturbed. I simply read your post and saw no conclusion and therefore I learned nothing. Much like many news stories these days. If you felt it was a personal attack it really wasn't meant that way but I can understand how it might be taken that way. It was sort of a "nothings shocking" comment.
S...
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 14, 2018 - 07:58am PT
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Hi,
In a world of 7.4 billion people, one might expect almost anything to happen or to show up.
I guess I agree with MH2 and Skywalker1. Entertainment has become news, and what we would have called (regular) news is now entertainment.
Usually I’m the guy who argues that it is useful to avoid taking any of these things all too concretely or seriously. In instances like this (supposedly), that argument seems ludicrous and insensitive. If there were a “fix” with regards to the event in Toronto, what would it be? More laws? Stricter penalties? More education? Better parenting? I’d say at the end of the day, any fix begins with you, yourself—what’s going on inside of you.
If you give it some thought, the issue at-hand is not about “them”; it’s about you. Don’t like the world you live in? Change your mind.
“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do.” – Mahatma Gandhi
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 14, 2018 - 09:20am PT
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I suspect one element that figures into all of this is the conflict between the biological sex drive that people feel, many people’s inability to satisfy it with another person, and the feelings of guilt/shame about taking matters into our own hands.
I think religions and conservative upbringings work against the societal goal of more peaceful interaction, by casting shame on the process that would help most people “take the edge off” whatever anxieties and life struggles they are dealing with.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2018 - 07:01pm PT
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Ghost, I was simply saying that in this day in age it is all about the headline. I have no doubts that this gentleman is/was very disturbed. I simply read your post and saw no conclusion and therefore I learned nothing. Much like many news stories these days. If you felt it was a personal attack it really wasn't meant that way but I can understand how it might be taken that way. It was sort of a "nothings shocking" comment.
No worries. I didn't think of it as a personal attack. In fact, I thought it was a good question/observation.
The reason I posted the original story was not to make a point, but rather in the hope for input from others here. I was completely amazed by this. Not that some lunatic killed people -- lunatics sometimes do that -- but that there is a whole community of people who have come together under the "incel" banner, and that violence seems to be their preferred solution to their problem.
Just seemed bizarre, and I was wondering what others here might have to say about it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 15, 2018 - 11:30am PT
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Obviously, we need stricter van laws.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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May 15, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
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Obviously, we need stricter van laws. Don't be silly this was Canada. We just need to build a wall.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 15, 2018 - 12:37pm PT
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Not stricter van laws - stricter ban laws. Ban the internet so these losers can’t communicate!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 15, 2018 - 01:03pm PT
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In the land of socialized medicine- there's an argument to just issue these guys some "medical" call-girl vouchers as a form of "treatment" for their disorder IMPO
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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May 15, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
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or "salt peter" as they gave prisoners in the US not that many years ago? ha
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 15, 2018 - 01:25pm PT
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It is ironic that Canada is just about the easiest, safest place in the world to pay for sex. Young, willing Asian escorts are everywhere.
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perswig
climber
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May 15, 2018 - 02:19pm PT
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When does a dry spell become incel?
when you give your non-dom hand a nom de palm.
NTTIAWWT.
Dale
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Incels should start go fund me pages for prostitutes. And, I was involuntarily celibate for five damn years, not getting laid sucks! I didn’t lash out at women. The attacker obviously had a much deeper seated mental health issue. Mental health is the center of the Venn diagram of violence, IMO.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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This is a touchy subject, n’est ce pas?
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Ironic, because in Canada, sex work is legal, reasonably priced, safe and easy to come by. The laws surrounding it, plus the liberal immigration laws attract girls from all over the world. There are Asian girls in large numbers.
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Degaine
climber
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aspendougy wrote:
Ironic, because in Canada, sex work is legal, reasonably priced, safe and easy to come by. The laws surrounding it, plus the liberal immigration laws attract girls from all over the world. There are Asian girls in large numbers.
Maybe it has nothing to do with sex and more to do with a feeling of isolation and exclusion.
There is increasing evidence that social media has influenced the uptick in teen suicide; perhaps there is a similar link with regard to "incel" anger and the tragic incidents mentioned in this thread.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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This is one of the stranger Taco threads. Stacies? Chads? And I never knew you couldn't swing a dead cat in Canada without hitting an asian hooker.
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ecdh
climber
the east
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All terrorism is loser-ism. We gotta stop aggrandizing these as#@&%es as terrifying bogeymen and see them as they are - losers venting their fantasies on the defenceless.
I remember some guys like that at school, most became cops or security guards...
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jan 24, 2019 - 09:02am PT
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wonder why nobody wanted to f*#k him....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 24, 2019 - 09:05am PT
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Most terrorists are incels.
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