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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 20, 2018 - 09:23am PT
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my wife and i are currently in the market for a used sprinter van. we are specifically looking for a 2003-2009 Dodge with the 144" wheelbase and high roof. preferably with low miles(under 150K) and one owner and clean title. we are willing to travel from the bay area as far as arizona, utah, or oregon. Camping conversion would be a plus. any help would be much appreciated, Steve Schneider
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2018 - 09:29am PT
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Just curious why you’re not interested in a Merc in addition or instead of the Dodge.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2018 - 09:47am PT
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we hear that the older dodge sprinter vans are a better value than the newer mercedes sprinter vans. ss
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2018 - 10:18am PT
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I would think the best ‘value’ would be on one of either ilk at about 50K miles. As in financial markets at some point the ‘risk premium’ negates the value. I’ve been thinking of getting one but it would have to be pretty cheap to entice me into one with over 75K. I know that isn’t high mileage for a big diesel in an F250 but IMHO those smaller diesels are working a lot harder. Other than anecdotal ‘data’ have you found any more substantive data on longevity vs cost?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 20, 2018 - 10:38am PT
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The reliability and value thing only applies to units that have been well taken care of and driven with a light foot.
The T1N's of 03-06 are very old now, ones on the market are likely to be beat to hell, I wouldn't go there at all.
The 07+ Dodge's and Mercs have emission issues that, again, can be no big deal if you are handy with diesel motors and are working on a well cared for vehicle - otherwise possible financial ruin.
There is zero difference between the Dodge and Merc, except the hood ornament. Even the VINs all follow Merc format, absolutely every part has a Merc PN. Therefore, expand your search, if you insist, 2007-2018.
That said, I would also look at a Ford gasoline. The diesel fuel cost equation has changed in the past few years, it's gotten more expensive and the vehicles that burn it even more so, you're not saving much if anything over gas anymore.
I would not touch a Dodge/Fiat/Promaster with a stick.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 20, 2018 - 10:41am PT
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Interesting, JLP. What's the low-down on the Promaster? They do look cool. :)
BAd
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 20, 2018 - 10:55am PT
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^^^No reason for a van with that mileage to need that much work except in the case of incompetent mechanics and/or abusive owners. I wouldn't touch that thing.
That said, buying an older pro converted RV is definitely value, these vehicles tend to be owned by mellower drivers with more money for maintenance. Converting your own equivalent will be more expensive by far. The systems tend to be weaker, though - battery, solar, etc - but can be upgraded.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 20, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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Camping conversion - high roof - one owner - low, as in no, miles.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
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Apr 20, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
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"I would not touch a Dodge/Fiat/Promaster with a stick."
I had a friend last year that purchased a 2017 Promaster and it's turned out to be lemon. It is in the shop more than out... So far the dealer is standing by the warranty.
It seems very under-powered when fitted out for a trip. Gas mileage has been quite bad as well...
He wishes he never sold his old sprinter ...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2018 - 01:52pm PT
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Boy, if I dropped $150K on one tricked out by Airstream and it didn’t run I’d be screaming.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Breckenridge, CO
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Apr 20, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
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It's the gas version.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 20, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
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Look at the rear axle on a Promaster. That clearance made it a non-starter for me- they are trying to sell to people who want to minimize load height, not maximize offroad clearance. That said, I did prefer that vehicle for the internal box dimensions to make a camper van. Easier to sleep sideways and waste less space on a bed without doing pop-out window extensions or sleeping diagonally.
I am pretty satisfied with the 4x4 capability on a new sprinter. If you add it to an old van, it is a $20k+ add-on. The used vehicle with outdated safety features and no warranty starts looking less attractive at that point. That's what turned us away from a gas Ford Econoline in favor of the new Sprinter.
If you want to do more homework on various vintages of Sprinters, check the forums and read up:
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/index.php
T1N are the older models you are looking for Steve. Lots of documentation of various age and reliability issues to work around:
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=106
A little more info to sort out the history of Dodge vs Mercedes and the years in question with different feature changes:
https://sprinter-source.com/wiki/index.php/Sprinter
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 20, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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I'm gonna become sprinter mechanic.
All these climber clones driving the same, lookin the same, etc.
It's cult I tell ya!
There must be a million clone climbers now all looking the same in their sprinters wearing their Patagonia clothing drinkin beer..... :-)
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Apr 20, 2018 - 05:42pm PT
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Not often, but every once in a while, I wish I was a guy and could speak the language of man/car. I have a 2006 Chevy Express Van, AWD. It's still rollin'.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 20, 2018 - 06:04pm PT
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this looks about right to me. height adjustable!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 20, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
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Sprinters aren't great for long term quality.
http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Van.html
But there's not many high roofline vans that get decent mpg. I'd do some serious number crunching between a Ford Transit and a Sprinter to see what's the best value.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 20, 2018 - 09:59pm PT
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Forget about this van stuff, Steve. Get a Winnebago and join me on the dark side. :-)
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Apr 21, 2018 - 12:26am PT
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I helped the ex GF build out her T1N that she bought off craigslist from a guy in sacramento that resold dhl vans.
Here are some tips
1. It's true what JLP said about merc vs dodge (and freightliner) being the same. That also means repairs are mercedes expensive. BTW she beats the hell out of hers (in terms of bumpy high clearance roads) and it's up around 270k now and running strong. She also maintains it well. We used to joke about becoming diesel mechanics at the beginning of every road trip as it would break down as we left town. As a side note, she hit an elk and then replaced her destroyed dodge grill with a merc.
2. There are no corners. Everything is round and this makes building it out difficult unless your carpentry skills (and tools) approach professional.
3. I wouldn't really factor diesel prices in at all as a reason to buy or not to buy. Since she's had hers (4 years) it has switched back and forth several times and also by location when you travel. In other words, your mileage may vary. Either way, your mileage will be good for a vehicle of that size and capability.
4. Plan on ditching the factory stereo (and it's ridiculous security code) and spending a few minutes every time you want to lock the vehicle.
Don't take these as reasons not to get one, just some tips about it's idiosyncrasies. It's been great for long trips.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:22am PT
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Boy, vans are cool. There's no doubt about it, but the cost/reliability issues are worrisome. It's hard to beat a good Toyota truck with a pop-up camper. Currently, my wife and I are going the trailer route, which is cool because you can drop the trailer and have the separate vehicle for switching venues, resupply, etc. Also, trailers have some real advantages when leveling. If I were going solo, I'd get a pop-up. Four Wheel seem to be the shiz.
BAd
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:35am PT
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I've always wondered about "trailers".
Park trailer and then go do your day stuff.
Return later and trailer gone!!!
Yowza .....! :-)
Park sprinter, do your day stuff, return later, all your sh!t is gone from a break in.
What's a gross materialist to do????
Smoke pot, lol?
:-)
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:50am PT
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Easily replaceable V10 -less than 10k maybe less than 5k. No big investment. No big deal. Goes everywhere. Huge bed. Seats many. Hauls everything.
Junky trailer. Costs little.( less than a diesel tune up). Lives big. Not a clone.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:53am PT
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Nice trailer, I like.
Too bad it weighs a ton but it's good once it's beached at it's intended location :-)
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:54am PT
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My truck doesn't notice the trailer. It's not very heavy.
You'd have to be a special kind of crazy to steal this rig.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:55am PT
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I have a 97 Honda civic.
It will tow this beast, eh?
:-)
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:57am PT
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The civic can ride on top of the trailer but you'll need to bring some grass materialists
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 21, 2018 - 08:08am PT
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Two wheel drive? I guarantee that I can haul my trailer up roads that will break your overpriced POS van.. I bought my truck at 100k and have put 40k with barely an issue. You're going to have to haul your camping upgrades until your van dies and then what?
Talk about gross materials. Money but no sense is the new clone way.
Think about me every day when you have to break camp and load everything on your bed just to take a drive. Vans are so limited.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 21, 2018 - 08:28am PT
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96k DOT compliant, maintained miles, 150 sq. ft of stand up panoramic sanctuary for a measly $3.5k abandon all pride and embrace the powerbask! hundreds of thousands of geriatrics can't be all wrong
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 21, 2018 - 08:36am PT
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Flippy, if vans are so over-rated why did the Canucks name a city in honour of them?
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 21, 2018 - 09:01am PT
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T,
I appreciate you admitting that your brand new van is in the shop. Next would be admitting the costs and time involved in the camping modifications. This isn't a fight, it's differing opinions.
I lived in my Vans for years. When I was young and climbing. I know about the ups and downs.
A 24' tin can has no appeal to me either. I don't stay in campgrounds much. Apart from the big investments, how is it going? It took awhile. It's in the shop. Would you recommend your choices?
Vancouver means "Vans are so over rated" in Algonquin
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2018 - 09:25am PT
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hooblie, that conversion looks awesome, can i get some info on that buildout. i'm a good carpenter, but not that great with steel or whatever the metal is.
i appreciate all the beta and different options, but the sprinter van seems the best choice for us, plus, that's what steph got. ss
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 21, 2018 - 09:48am PT
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Next would be admitting the costs and time involved in the camping modifications. Deciding your route here has more impact on time and expense and final quality than the cost of the base van. By far.
Do you have more time, tools and fabrication skills than money? Looking for a project? Have lots of time to spare? Do you *really* like building things?
I think people generally don't appreciate the economics of a pro level conversion, they only see the sticker price, none of the complexity, then somewhat ignorantly believe they can do it all for less.
Fiat does not have a model that has lasted on the US market for more than a few years. Most don't even get into our market due to our safety standards. There are few established Fiat dealers in the US - for a reason - quality is generally dismal and everyone knows it - hence this Promaster came in under Dodge. Do some homework before buying.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2018 - 10:10am PT
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WE GOT ONE!. just a few minutes ago. psyched. 2004 with under 120K and good service record. looking at buildout desighns now. ss
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 21, 2018 - 10:16am PT
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cigars all around!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 21, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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All mods I made to the stock van ran approx. $8k.
Compare that to a Sportsmobile build out at a minimum $36k. A $36k conversion from SMB is on the middle to higher end. You could make your comparison if you installed every feature included in that $36k. Otherwise, SMB is custom every job. They might charge more like $10-15k for what you actually installed.
That said, there's something cool and very climber-like about seeing what a Real Man can do to his van - putting your skills on display and enjoying the benefit of them.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 21, 2018 - 11:24am PT
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Congrats, Shipoopi! That's low miles for an '04. Well done. Put aside some $$ for future work you might need.
BAd
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 21, 2018 - 11:47am PT
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Link to Sportsmobile build prices on van you provide;
10-15K they won't touch. I'm familiar. Yes they will take your 10-15k and do whatever, just ask, that build sheet is not a comprehensive list.
There are many other upfitters out there. Most better, frankly, SMB is well known as a poor value.
The prices you see from SMB include a great deal of custom details that will take a DIY a long time to replicate. Those details are why they are in business.
It's no great art to build a wood box, call it a cabinet and bolt it into the van - and it looks exactly like that.
To blend this stuff seamlessly into the windows and doors, the wall coverings - to install possibly dangerous electrical and flame burning appliances to RV Code in an economical and safe (and insurable...!) manner - that is the difference. Most insurance companies won't touch DIY campers, for good reason. You'll only insure the bare metal truck.
Most DIY vans miss all of this - and for the ones who put in the effort - this is where most of the effort and expense lies.
That said, I don't see you as having saved 20+k with your efforts. Not even close. Nice van, glad you enjoy it, like many others, but you didn't work off $20+k with your efforts - it was far less.
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Apr 21, 2018 - 04:47pm PT
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Good luck with the van Steve and have fun with kitting it out to suit " your" needs and tastes.
Over all if you have the skills there is something extremely satisfying to building something to your specs. Now get to work!
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GuapoVino
climber
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Apr 21, 2018 - 09:53pm PT
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I built out a used Promaster. So far so good except for getting a new transmission, covered by warranty. No more off-roaming and hill climbs. It's really convenient but that thing hooblie posted might be more bulletproof. A camper on a Tacoma might be cheaper. Vans are pretty nice though. I fear retribution and attacks after Cedar Wright maligned vans in his latest Outside article.
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Apr 22, 2018 - 05:00am PT
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just finished this build in a Sprinter for some folks. Nice layout.[photoid=528638]r
The bench seat folds up to open to an ARB fridge/freezer.
Tons of storage under the bed. Bikes, gear, ski is whatever. Two house batteries are back there with the inverter etc. you can crawl thru from the front to access the back or the back doors. Dometiic stove/ sink combo. H2O is two five gallon jugs under sink. Propane cabinet in there also.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 22, 2018 - 06:06am PT
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I am all about function and seamless fit means jack sh#t if it does not function to my needs. I have yet to see a factory conversion that was set up to my needs. when I do a conversion It will be dumpster dived materials and it will not pass JLP' seamless fit test but it will function better than anything you can buy. One of the reasons that I am not all starry eyed over our westy is because it is a stupid system. it is so full of little drawers that the bed is tiny and there is no place to put your climbing gear. there is zero counter space for cooking so you end up prepping your food on the bed which is a disgusting habbit on a long trip. All those little cabnits are hard to access and not practical for living. I much preferred my Syncro with its dumpster dived wood kitchen over the westy for any kind of real trip.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 22, 2018 - 06:22am PT
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Huh, Tradman. Doesn't your Westy have a removable table for eating/prep? My Westy ('78) was cramped compared to these Sprinters, but we never had to prep meals on the bed. Besides, the bed was always in bench mode unless we were sleeping. You're so right about the storage issues. We ended up with space case on the roof. Our routine was once we got parked at camp, we'd pop the top and shuffle any duffels, extra gear up top, then go about our meal/hang. Worked okay. Would have killed for the space of these modern rigs. Of course, I took my '78 VW places I'd NEVER risk in these fancy, low slung vans.
BAd
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 22, 2018 - 06:51am PT
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The swing out table is also a PINTA because with that thing in place you can't get into the closet or the cabnits on that side. not shure where the table went to? when I am living in a van I do NOT want to unmake the bed and fold it up every day. We had both the westy and my Syncro at the same time I much preferred the syncro to the westy for trips simply because my crude set up provided more living space in crap weather...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 22, 2018 - 06:56am PT
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can't sit up in bed in the westy because of those overhead storage bins and the bed is only a 3rd the width. the #1 beef that I have with most builds is that by the time they are done stuffing the thing full of crap you don't need there is no room to live...
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 22, 2018 - 07:49am PT
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don't need no sinkin' van
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 22, 2018 - 07:54am PT
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don't need no sinkin' van
Yeah one Valley local lived in his Honda Civic year round for 8 years.
Modern climbers are pussies ..... lol
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ground_up
Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
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Apr 22, 2018 - 08:03am PT
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Steve,.. we got a Merc. sprinter with low miles, love it. My buddy got
a Transit. I think either is a good choice. Service is more economical
with the transit. Gas mileage is better with the merc. Any one would
do well to do your own maintenance , oil changes.
Being a cabinet maker/finish carpenter I did a sweet build out for
not alot of money. I would be glad to share the ideas . Hell bring it
up to Oregon and I'll help you do it. Either way it is an awesome way
to go and you won't be sorry.
Shawn
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 22, 2018 - 08:18am PT
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what kind of milege does the transit get??
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Apr 22, 2018 - 08:23am PT
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I'd say good points from both JLP and Tradman, on opposite spectrums.
I have had four vans in my run, currently with my 08 Dodge/Merc 3500. All of my builds have failed to merge the finish work into the contours of the windows and doors, etc. looking very home made. My friends comment on how well it functions but yeah, I'm still using milk crates for drawers and bungy straps for this and that.
My problem is that I pull everything out for work in my summer season and then put it all back in when I take the time for a good trip. Usually its in a state somewhere in-between and that's growing old. Hence I never really finish them up.
Arne
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 22, 2018 - 08:47am PT
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A West-fail-on-ya is low volume compared to even the short Sprinter, agree there is no practical room for gear.
No matter your layout, everything needs a place where it’s accessible and doesn’t need to be moved to cook or sleep or get at something else. IMO you just can’t accomplish that for 2 people in much smaller than a Sprinter sized vehicle. The Westy thing does well, but it’s cramped and not versatile.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 22, 2018 - 09:21am PT
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Congrats shipoopi. Older vehicles with low miles are usually the best value.
Beds are always a challenge. A 2 person bed takes up a lot of sqft. If you have a bed that doesn't need to get converted/folded away in a van it's going to take up a lot of space. Cabover campers solve this by having a bed with low head space over the cab. Many Pop tops solve it by having it under the pop top. If I was doing a van conversion I'd want fold away beds or a dinette that gets converted. I want to be able to stand up to change clothes etc. I want a table and chairs/bench to eat and do work at, I want a bed I can sit up in. I don't think you can fit that all in a van without some kind of daily conversion happening.
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 22, 2018 - 09:39am PT
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Just curious, but does anybody bivy NEXT to their cars anymore? I've had Tacomas since '97, but I still love to plop down under the stars if the moon's not too bright.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 22, 2018 - 09:53am PT
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^^^^ That is SOOO retro, braj! So we rolled into Fairbanks at about 0300. We voted to go to the diner instead of getting a room for a few hours. I said, “I’m not drinking crappy joe for 5 hours, I’m gonna get some shuteye.” I threw my bag down next to the car and promptly started stacking Z’s. Next thing I know it’s getting light and I hear voices.
“He’s breathing, I can see his breath!”
I opened my eyes to a small crowd standing over me looking worried. There was even a TV camera!
Did I mention that it was January? Hell, it was only about -20F, braj.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 22, 2018 - 10:32am PT
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what ... did aunt edna ruin it for sleeping up on top?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 23, 2018 - 10:34am PT
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Reilly, that's a funny story :)
Just curious, but does anybody bivy NEXT to their cars anymore
Family style:
But if it's pissing rain, a little more shelter is convenient:
But it's still pretty darn nice to walk from driver seat to bed, just lay down and go to sleep, with no prep work and no getting wet :)
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 11:45am PT
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Beds are always a challenge.
My bed does double duty as a (kind of) couch. You can't bend at the knees in a sitting position; it's more like a lounging, but if you want to sit for short periods of time(eating, putting on shoes), then you just sit at the head of the bed, and that's fine.
What I have is a long rectangle of foam(fabric-covered) that came with my first van and was part of the fold down seat/bed. It went the width of the seat, is maybe 8 inches deep, and 12-16 or so inches in the height. This makes for a perfect back rest, which I place the long way on my be, against one of the side walls. If I want more back supporty stuff, then I put my pillows against it and I'm good to go.
My van (1990 Ford E-150) has a queen sized mattress, and even with that size, there is a channel available along one side to lace small to medium sized bins. A woodcrafter could build out a long box which would be more pretty. In the bins go small clothing items, and two hold materials for my chalkbags making stuff. Someone else could use them to stow just about anything that fits in a smaller bin - arts supplies, medicines and toiletries, or other things that you need to get to frequently.
I agree that having to dig for something is a big pain, but with under-bed situation, it's kind of hard not too. My bed is comepletely open at front and back end, with 2x4 "legs" in each corner, and another 2x4 left front and back center. can't imagine there is a more open-accessible way than this. What I do is store the not-so-often used items in the center toward the front under the bed, as that is the hardest to access. There are bins AT the front, which are cooking pots, and my craft inventory stuff. But the not-often stuff goes behind THAT. Access from the back is cooking foods on one side, and climbing gear on the others.
I solved one storage issue that made me happy. I used to have my outer clothes in a big bin. Now, I made an attic above the bed, by sliding 1 inch boards in the space created with wood panels that hide LED lights and the decorative wood frame around the side windows, The attic is just at the back portion. I used accessory cord to make a netlike way to keep things from falling out during driving. The front of bed still has headroom to sit up in.
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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Apr 23, 2018 - 11:58am PT
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 23, 2018 - 01:20pm PT
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^^^^^. That was RAD! Seems like it woulda been a hit in Europe.
I’d say the creators didn’t get marketing.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 23, 2018 - 01:37pm PT
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lot of work for that little air cooled motor to haul a camper...
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Apr 23, 2018 - 02:34pm PT
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Ah, the early years in Camp 4.........
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:29pm PT
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^^^^^^ Wasn’t that the basis of the movie “Papillon”?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:57pm PT
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Papillon is my hero.
he escaped .....
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 24, 2018 - 10:30am PT
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Here's a good vid of one bloke's build--well done vid and seems like a really likeable guy. Loved it. No stove or fridge. Guess he's just using basic camping stuff--cooler, et al.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko-F0Ma4i-w
BAd
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 11:51am PT
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This was my buddy Galen's camper for the summer of 1977, lived in the lodge lot for 3 months. He'd taken out the passenger seat and installed a wood storage box that coupled with the back seat served as the bed.
Tradman is spot on about the failings of the Westy cabinetry, but they make really awesome mouse habitat. My last Vanagon was a 91 weekender, pop top but no cabinets, that was pretty swell but I still couldn't keep the damned rodents out of the air system.
T Hocking's comment about the performance of the front wheel drive Promaster might work for a camper and certainly for snow, but my plumber has one and hates that with all the tools in the back he can't get enough traction to drive up steep gravel driveways.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 24, 2018 - 02:26pm PT
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done it in a Honda civic. and just my feet and the pack on my back. Spoiled in my old age. love the van life.. mice seriously like the westy for some reason...
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Ney Grant
Trad climber
Pollock Pines
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Apr 25, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
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In regards to snow and dirt roads, the rear-wheel drive Sprinter has higher clearance than the front-wheel drive Ford or Dodge. For RVers the Ford and Dodge have the advantage with a lower floor, but for high-clearance use the Sprinter has the advantage.
For our Sprinter we run a little larger tire and also installed an extra spring leaf in the back so it is higher still. We bought ours before the 4WD model was available, but we did install automatic chains (yes, that is a thing) since we use it a lot in the snow.
You do HAVE to remember to turn off anti-skid control as that is really anti-traction control.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 25, 2018 - 11:22pm PT
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At 6'-1" I was able to sleep nicely stretched out in the
back seat of my '54 Hudson. That was some big pimpin'.
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Timmc
climber
BC
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:12am PT
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It’s annoying and somewhat amusing to keep hearing that sprinter ownership is automatically a trustifarian thing.
My girlfriend and I bought a brand new 4x4 2016 sprinter to use for work and play. We are full time mountain guides and work our asses off to balance work and climbing/skiing.
My other wip is a $3000 06 Mazda that I use for everything else.
We made this choice so we could travel with our dog and avoid costly- both carbon and cash - overseas flights to exotic destinations.
Prior to owning one I used to judge too. I now realize I was simply jealous.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:21am PT
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Watch out, Timmc, next step is being jealous of the Class B crowd. After that it’s straight into the Tea Partay!
So, since yer here, those 4x4 Sprinters sure don’t seem to have much more clearance than the 2x’s, which isn’t saying much. No probs so far?
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Timmc
climber
BC
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:30am PT
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Ha! I already struggle with jealousy with the class B folks who go on endless road trips!
Though we do really appreciate our quick hits to Trumpistan.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:37am PT
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Oh, I've had Sprinter envy for a long, long time. The 4X4 looks like the bomb. I live in Bishop, so I see these ultimate rigs coming through all th3e time. Drooooooooooooooool.
BAd
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 26, 2018 - 08:58am PT
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Watch out, Timmc, next step is being jealous of the Class B crowd. Yeah, it's a long slide down from sleeping beside your compact car.
A Sprinter is a class B - but it's true after all needs and wants of the B nature are met, it seems a lot of my friends now want a toilet and a shower, maybe a larger kitchen and more room for growing kids. Next step - mortgage the house and step into a 50' class A.
There's definitely a lot of jealousy and consumerism flowing in the recent #vanlife craze - driving a lot of people into buying things way beyond their means. Frankly, a $50-100k depreciating asset on a guide's income seems pretty foolish to me, but everyone is different in what they do with their money.
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Timmc
climber
BC
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:05am PT
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Reilly, we had a big snow year up in the Kootenays this winter and I have a steep driveway. I was very impressed with the sprinter’s ability to crawl up through two feet of snow, a crust with facets below. We still are running the stock rubber. We used the 4X4 a lot this winter going over Rogers Pass and up north getting to work. I never considered a Sprinter until the four wheel drive option came out. I find that even pulling off the side of the road in the desert it would get stuck in two wheel drive. Clearance is fine so far.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:14am PT
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those 4x4 Sprinters sure don’t seem to have much more clearance than the 2x’s, which isn’t saying much. No probs so far?
My 2017 sprinter 4x4 has pretty good clearance, a few more inches than 2 wheel drive. I can roll around under the thing in my driveway. I was fine on some seriously rutted roads and places that Pellucid Wombat would not take his Subaru.
That said, I did test it in deep dry sand to find the limits, and I got stuck. I didn’t air down though and I still have the stock tires which are not supposed to be that good.
I also couldn’t get past the first rock at the start of the Dusy-Ersheim trail out of Courtwright reservoir. But I can get another 2” lift and go from 30” to 35” tires if I want, and get skid plates for the rear transfer case, gas tank, engine, and transmission.
It’s not like a souped up Tacoma for off-roading, but it’s good enough to get me lots of places. Worst thing is the length for tight turns (better off with a Jeep Wrangler), and the height which would stop me from going through Saline Valley to Eureka Dunes via Steel Pass. Also the height catches lots of trees on roads that would otherwise be trimmed for shorter vehicles. I am afraid of getting a roof fan now unless I reinforce the front side.
All in all, I still would pick this vehicle. We almost got low roof sprinter to add a pop-top, but as we age we will like the convenience of permanent height.
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Timmc
climber
BC
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:17am PT
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Right on Jim! I bit hard. LOL
JLP: like I said up thread I own half this van. Perhaps you are referring to what a rock guide makes in America? I work year round as a Mountain Guide and also work in the avalanche industry. There is a good thread somewhere discussing this discrepancy between America and the Euro/ Canadian wages in detail.
But, you are right- I still live behond my means.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:31am PT
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Good beta Tim and Nut. Thanks. Now I just have to find a trustifarian to steal his identity.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:53am PT
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One other key point I’ve learned on mileage:
Going 70-80 mph I get 16-17 mpg.
Going 50-60 mph I get 20+ mpg
It pays to not be in a hurry!
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Timmc
climber
BC
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Apr 26, 2018 - 09:57am PT
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NutAgain: could not agree more on mileage and speed.
Also agree that these vans are not meant to hammer like a Tacoma. Which is fine.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 10:05am PT
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I recently found a photo of my first camper shell, Lee Vining in January 1978. The government surplus International Harvester truck was the worst of both worlds - underpowered 6 cylinder engine that got terrible mileage.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 26, 2018 - 10:45am PT
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It’s annoying and somewhat amusing to keep hearing that sprinter ownership is automatically a trustifarian thing.
My girlfriend and I bought a brand new 4x4 2016 sprinter to use for work and play. We are full time mountain guides and work our asses off to balance work and climbing/skiing.
I just figured all guides were rich :-)
Still using my old Westfalia for summer trips would love to update to a new VW California Ocean camper van, all-wheel drive. Nice small van if only you could get one in the states. Saw this one in Italy this winter.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 26, 2018 - 12:07pm PT
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The real danger is actually to your finances. 4x4 has been added to these vans only to sell more vans.
It's not just the size DMT mentions, it's also the weight, both applied to a long wheel base.
Lots of pix in the Sprinter forums of windows breaking out on simple cow paths as the entire body twists and bends.
The vehicle is not a 4x4 beyond applying power to 2 more wheels. The CV axles, ball joints, suspension travel, etc etc etc, are not capable of much at all.
I could see the 4x4 being useful for winter roads, for the winter types out there - but beyond that, frequent off road use, IMO, is going to cause the vehicle to rip itself apart in a very expensive way.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 12:31pm PT
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What, you didn’t scout it with yer drone, bra?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 26, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
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I am still fearful of getting in (or up) over my head. I think that applies across the spectrum. Maybe you're in a Civic, maybe the most capable of modified Wranglers. I've seen many a 4x4 sitting out there abandon until spring, or possibly as a pile of ripped up and bent metal waiting for a helicopter or something - they pushed it too far.
You don't see these roads and understand their destructive nature until you get into something that will take you there - and maybe pay a few towing and repair bills afterwards - hopefully it's not your new $$ Sprinter, IMO.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
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HaHaHa! On our most recent adventure La Femme got out and walked on some gnarly side hill sections. A Sprinter woulda been in deep doo-doo, even if it managed to stay upright.
The ranger at the Bristlecones told us about the $2500 towing bill quoted to a Wrangler owner!
I can’t imagine any tow truck getting to where a Wrangler would get in trouble.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 12:55pm PT
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I'm sure anyone who's ever 4wd'd alone on remote roads can relate to the gnawing anxiety you start to feel when you're 'up innit.'
Ha, like a moth to a flame.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Apr 26, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
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So it must have to do with the time of year? There have been Sprinters crossing my path near daily since this thread popped. I saw this sweet ride while gasing up the Hybrid, a rare thing, both gassing up the Hybrid and this Black Dually RigWhats really weird is they knew to set up camp in my neighborhood. A day after seeing the rig at the gas station. I passed by the Golf course/Town park, to check if this was dry. Its rattley Big hands where it counts and my overhanging, leaning crack technique Is weak, I should tape, but cant pull it.
Woodson .11?Anyway, It was there in the back of the parking lot, I did not knock.
I have no idea, Nor my cousin,as far as I gnow?( Hey Steve My name is Schneider) could be?
The last I looked when there were 30 some posts. then 70,
anyway as I point out is that site any better describe?
Then I Went to the Reject, to see the HealyJ & Tut beatdown, & this is a ridiculous post that has just posted, and is being savaged as it should be. but there is a good thing that the seller will be softened vup,
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114269438/ram-promaster-2500-high-roof-159wb-totally-built-out
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Apr 26, 2018 - 01:38pm PT
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Saw that someone else had a lemon of a promaster. . . my friend bought a brand new Diesel Promaster 2 years ago and has had nothing but trouble. . . he doesn't know enough about cars to understand the reputation of Fiat. . .
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 26, 2018 - 02:32pm PT
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the Astro has done a fair bit of wheeling. I get out and scout when nessicary. Teluride a few years ago our campsite up an old mining road near alta lakes turned out to be the turn around spot for the 4X4 guide outfit. they payed big bucks to take a 4x4 tour and when they get to the end of the line there is an astro van and a civic kicking back with a campfire :) Had to pile rocks and push a few times to get the civic up there :)
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:24pm PT
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That's not a Colorado 4x4 road, all you did was drive up a pussy little dirt road.
Places like that can be insanity in the summer. The day after you left a bunch of guys probably showed up with chain saws and machine guns. I know it well, I've lived in this state for a long time. If all you need is a beater and and a tank of gas to get there, expect crowds.
Couple miles away, see if those same vehicles get up Imogene Pass, or if that was too easy try connecting Black Bear road - both actual, legit 4x4 roads - and busy ones too. The latter will, absolutely, 100%, send a Sprinter and its occupants to their death.
Point is - people spend all this money on 4wd for what - solitude? The adventure of 4wd - in a Sprinter? It's a joke, you know nothing, you have not seen these places yet, there is no solitude there, just fat asses riding motorized vehicles of every shape and size, making noise and dust, tearing the place apart.
If you want solitude, get a mtn bike, or even better some trail running shoes. Fitness is what gets you solitude.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
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If you want solitude, get a mtn bike, or even better some trail running shoes. Fitness is what gets you solitude.
Solitude is never found outside of onself ......
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:51pm PT
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It's always funny on these threads when it's mentioned that dirt bags slept in their car when they were 20 years old living in the valley, while the average super topo poster is about 60 with a bad back.
99%+ of driving is on the road but people all the time get 4wd, big tires, raised suspension, etc for a little off road at the detriment of on road handling (corners) ride (bumps) mpg, parking, and most importantly safety. Tall rigs are more likely to flip in single or multi car accidents. I think a lot of people do it because it does look cool.
Get a small dual sport bike and you'll get anywhere that stops your rig and spend about $2000 and never worry about getting stuck or wrecking your expensive rig. For about the same cost as a set of big tires.
Of course it's all trade offs. What fits your needs Doesn't necessarily fit mine. I needed 4wd for sand and snow. And a big rig for 4 people so what I got doesn't get great mpg, and doesn't handle well. But I understood those trade offs when I bought it.
Airing down in sand is even more important than 4wd. Drop down to 12-15 psi it makes a huge difference.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
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whatever cool guy. I find it pretty effing helpful to be able to get in and out of campsites when I am on a road trip. Also like to be able to get up to my cabin in winter and mud season. 4 wheeling just for the sake of building an expensive toy and breaking it is not my gig. Just like to be able to get where I am going..
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
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There's also a big difference between an AWD option on an otherwise similar car vs a truck. On my truck it's taller and much heavier than a 2WD truck. But I'm not going to make that worse with big tires and jacking it up. It's a camper not a rock crawler.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 26, 2018 - 05:50pm PT
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the astro is just AWD but it seems to get where it needs to go.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:09pm PT
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What I've seen on AWD vehicles is that they lack clearance, and lack the dust protection of a 4x4 truck, so that expensive drive train stuff with like 10x the exposed seals of a 2wd - it rides low, picks up dirt, and grinds itself apart - leaks, blown seals, grooved shafts - too expensive to replace, the vehicle is junked out.
Surprised to see an Astro on any road at all, CR worst car of the year for most years back when they still made them - except for a few completely freakish exceptions, it seems.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2018 - 07:15pm PT
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“Hey, wasn’t there an Astrovan behind us?”
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 26, 2018 - 11:21pm PT
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thanks Mike.,
for passing this gem on ... Quigley 4WD, an intercepted Sporty. we're all smiles here in my backyard:
only one item in the squawk file. once the heaving to and fro begins, specifically at crawling speed,
there's no throttle foot with steady enough pedal technique to eliminate diesel surge, thrust/lurch.
i'll add PTO style vernier throttle controlto bump up the idle and leave my foot
on the floorboard for the rough stuff
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 27, 2018 - 03:26am PT
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saw a sh#t ton of built out astros in Wyoming and CO inn 2016. It is certainly not the best mechanicly but whatseriously what are your options for an AWD or 4x4 used van 10k or under??? My Syncro was amazeing but that thing broke ll the time as well. My Honda civics rusted out, my sabb had crazy electrical problems, a toasted steering rack and a blown head gasket. my F150 broke in half and my 67 K20 dump truck sounds like a junk yard. bla bla bla. the head gasket blew on Isa's 2010 Ford Focus and it rusted out. truth is all cars suck and they all break.
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Apr 27, 2018 - 05:51am PT
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Great thread and input from everyone. I have had 3 Toyota Tacoma,s . First one for 18 years , 2 wheel drive. I lived and camped out of the thing for years. Never broke down. Next up was a Astro van , biggest piece of sh.. Got rid of it within 1 year. Got another Toyota Tacoma , 4 wheel drive. Camped in it for 15 years and used it for work too. Never broke down. Scored a Vw Euro van 2003 for camping . Used it for 6 years and sold it for a significant profit. It to never broke down. I now have another Toyota Tacoma 2017 4 wheel drive. No problems so far. We just tent camp now a days or stay in a hotel. Never had a problem with my Toyota trucks for camping in or mechanically. Cheers
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 27, 2018 - 07:27am PT
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Steve's interesting counterpoint to tradman! I've had some good and bad luck with rigs. Drove VW's for years and had some great, great road trips. Our 78 Westy had only one serious breakdown during the 10 years we owned it. The tranny went out, and my wife had to get it replaced in Mammoth. Fortunately, she was meeting a friend there, and their trip continued with a different vehicle. We gambled on a 95 Eurovan. POS. Expensive. Multiple breakdowns. Never again with VW. Never. We've got a Toyota Tundra now and a Subaru. Solid stuff.
BAd
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 27, 2018 - 10:33am PT
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^^^ dude, there is flat road right next to that boulder. work on your steering!
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
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Apr 27, 2018 - 12:19pm PT
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hooblie,
Nice rig. Many steps up from your VW van at Canyon Tajo in the 1970s. I recall your great music collection of cassette tapes. Are you MP3 player/bluetooth now?
Nawmean,
Please tell about your front springs? That's new to me.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 27, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
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Sorry if my posts came across as critical of anyone's choices. I was just saying different strokes and all that but people can get caught up focusing on the wrong priorities.
I've posted this many times but it's great http://www.dashboard-light.com
If you want real statistically valid info on reliability/ longevity.
If you want a vehicle that will go 200,000+ easily get a Toyota, anything but RAV4, and especially good are their body on frame trucks/ suvs. Honda 4 cylinder. Or full size ford or chevy truck.
Other vehicles mentioned are average which isn't really bad, like Subaru or Sprinter.
Ford chevy full size vans are better than average.
If I was going todo long road trips with moderate off road but little heavy snow I'd get a sprinter. Great mpg. Drives great for its size. High roof makes living very comfortable. I personally couldn't justify the cost of a 4wd one.
If I was doing moderate off road and snow and I didn't want to chain up I'd get a chevy gmc awd van. Still drives nice on road. Good reliability.
If I didn't travel as far but wanted to go to more serious backcountry locations I'd get a ford with 4WD conversion. Understanding mpg, ride and handling, ease of repairing would all suffer.
And that just if I decided a van was the best fit. :-)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 27, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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I live in the NE where our vehicles get soaked in salt 6 months of the year. additionaly I live 4.5 miles out a fairly rough dirt road. a new rig to me has 100k or better on it.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 27, 2018 - 04:51pm PT
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Yes .. that is the correct way to sleep.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 27, 2018 - 04:53pm PT
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^^^^^ 30k if you want a sink and a furnace. Tents are not so bad
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 27, 2018 - 05:16pm PT
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Timid, I like to coat my nail bed in used motor oil so the nails slide through the skin better, and a little tinge of arsenic just to keep my immune system strong.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 28, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
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This morning Camp foul (4) ..... Sprinters parked everywhere.
This morning El Cap straight .... Sprinters parked everywhere.
This morning at Cookie ..... Sprinters parked everywhere.
Climbers are all clones trying hard to be and look all the same ......
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 28, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
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Dunno about that website, Fet. Subaru is near the bottom?! Huh? Those things go forever. We're on our second, and we sold our first--a Forester--to a friend who's hammering it. Got about 200k on it and going strong. That's been what I've heard from everyone who's owned one. Go figger.
BAd
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 28, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
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no shopping required, you aced the spec list. (inside joke, appurtenances: none)
which means full flexibility, prospectives intact
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Apr 28, 2018 - 09:50pm PT
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Just ordered one of these. Will take delivery in late June. I'll be towing it behind my Jeep Rubicon.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2018 - 10:00pm PT
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just got back from the whirlwind tour. flew sfo to grand junction friday morning(yesterday), picked up the sprinter, drove to wendover nevada last night, lost $40 at blackjack. blasted thru nevada today, visited with TM Herbert this afternoon(he's doing well) and back in oakland in time to watch most of game one warriors verses the pelocans...won by over 20 points. thing purrs llke a kitten, 23 mpg, and i can fuking stand tall in the mother. its not 4wd, but it will get us to the cookie. ss
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 28, 2018 - 10:22pm PT
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Nice work. Search "Black Death" on the Sprinter forums - check to make sure. There's a workaround for "rumble strip noise" as well, but it seems an infrequent complaint. Beyond that, people seem pretty pleased with these rigs.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 29, 2018 - 06:43am PT
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Congrats, Steve! I'm envious, especially of that mpg.
@Batrock: Schweet!
BAd
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 29, 2018 - 09:44am PT
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Nice Shipoopi.
BAd the issue with Subarus is the head gasket. It doesn't affect all years but it's enough to bring the brand down. I have and 06 Impreza and had the issue around 100k. I fixed it and it still drives like new at 150k. I love it and won't sell it because it's not worth much money but its great for my purposes.
I drove trucks, mostly Toyotas from age 16 to 38 then I bought the Subaru. It's so much nicer to drive. With only one vehicle sometimes you need a truck. But once I was married and we had multiple rides I got a car that's fun to drive and a full size truck that only gets used when I need it.
In an earlier thread someone mentioned the Nissan NV cargo van. Which is basically at Titan pickup with a van body. I just looked and you they don't come in 4x4 which is lame. You can get a quigly conversion but that a lot of cheddar.
I just read an article where all the boomers were inspired by the millennials #vanlife posts and are now all buying camper vans.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 29, 2018 - 10:40am PT
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Yeah, Fet, that's our setup now. Subie for around town/trips w/low cargo, etc. Tundra for big cargo, camping, etc. I expect to be driving these rigs for at least another ten years or so. Only about 50k miles on each of them. I'm thinking our next passenger car might well be an electric by then.
BAd
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 29, 2018 - 12:34pm PT
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Yeah BAd it works well. Subie for day ski trips, stuff on the roof rack. F250 Diesel, 4x4, crew cab, long bed beast for camper, home depot runs. Our other car is a Prius. Love it. 45 mpg. Room in the backseat for 6' adults. The first choice for around town and trips is always the Prius because it's so comfortable and inexpensive to drive.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 29, 2018 - 12:46pm PT
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the Prius because it's so comfortable and inexpensive to drive.
Yer lucky you got one without the melting inverter.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 29, 2018 - 12:55pm PT
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the issue with Subarus is the head gasket. It doesn't affect all years but it's enough to bring the brand down.
The head gasket is an issue on the 2.5L. I fixed my 99 with ARP head studs and metal gaskets, only to have a new (non-OEM) timing belt break at 20k miles in Indian Creek. Junked the 2.5 and put a 2.0L used engine in, half the price of a used 2.5L. 2.0 does not have the head gasket issue that the 2.5 has.
Have driven the new motor at 3k miles and love it. Slightly less power (10%) but I recently got 30 mpg from IC to San Diego, 800 miles. I would not recommend the 2.0 if you carry a full load and you have a lead foot.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Apr 29, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
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this being an american thing ... it never gets old. if this is a lift bed
or a roll back, i guess just point it down the fall line and it would still level up
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 29, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
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@Fet: Curious about mpg on the big truck. I bet it beats my Tundra V8.
BAd
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 29, 2018 - 10:36pm PT
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BAd
It's the biggest/heaviest version you can buy, but it's got the great 7.3L powerstroke in it.
I get 17 mpg average. 19 if doing under 65 on the freeway.
13 with a 9.5 foot cabover camper.
Reilly, no issue with our Prius. Ours is a third generation. Maybe that was a 1st generation issue? Quality rating is great. Only the Sequoia and Tundra are currently higher: http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Toyota.html
Actually for our year, 2010, quality is rated 100, better than anything on the road.
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Prius.html
Weird, I haven't looked at that website for a couple years and some ratings have changed pretty drastically. Subaru used to be about average with a rating of about 50, now it's WAY down. Even the older models which shouldn't have changed much in the last couple years have really changed, how would that happen legitimately? Oh well, I always take info with a grain of salt, but I don't trust this website as much as I used to.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 30, 2018 - 07:17am PT
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Nice, Fet. Unloaded, our Tundra could get up to 18 at best. When we had a pop up cab-over camper, we'd get between 13--15. Now, hauling an rPod, we get about 11. Ugh. I really wanted a diesel, but they were just so expensive. We were able to get the Tundra totally new for about $25k off the lot--2wd, however. Still, a lot of truck for the doubloons.
BAd
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Apr 30, 2018 - 07:20am PT
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Damn, Rurp. That's rig is rad.
BAd
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 30, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
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re: Prius reliability... I'm at 180k miles on my 2009 (bought in late 2008). Majority of the miles are interstate, and lots of adventure off-roading including some labeled for 4wd high clearance. Don't remember how many sets of tires, but still on my first battery and no problems at all with hybrid system. It was great for many 2-week adventures in the boonies with 1 adult and 2 kids (but had to sleep outside). Good for 2 adults to sleep inside, but only good for 1 to sleep with lots of gear.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 30, 2018 - 05:35pm PT
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Euro vanpeeps...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 13, 2018 - 12:54pm PT
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^^^^ 145k. To give you an idea of how overpriced it is, 35k was spent on the climbing wall.
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