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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 19, 2018 - 12:37am PT
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Sandbagging is a time honored practice in climbing, and I suspect that we've all enjoyed it, either as practitioners or unwitting fall-persons. One of the great things about sandbagging is that you can do it even without going to the crag, you can do it while sitting down and having a beer! You can sandbag raw newbies, without much effort, or, for extra points, you can try to sandbag the resident hard-persons or guidebook authors. There are a lot of possibilities: recommending routes with dynos to short people, recommending routes with thin cruxes to ham handed off-width climbers, delicate slab routes to Chris Sharma, etc., etc.
I recall getting convinced to swing leads on the DNB when I was just getting reasonably solid on 5.9, and I got sandbagged on every climb I ever did at Seneca Rocks! I got tricked, by an older climber and my ego, into doing high boulders at Whipp's Ledges near Cleveland. Some French guy made fun of me at Snell's field after sending me up a greasy problem, having described it as an easy classic. These are all part of the happy memories from a long climbing career.
I have probably been guilty of giving a false sense of solidity when describing some climbs I managed to sketch my way up, and people (weak members of the younger generations) have sometimes complained about ratings given to FAs. I'm not really much of a sandbagger, myself, but I can definitely appreciate the art.
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mrgooseskin
Trad climber
Stockholm, Sweden
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Apr 19, 2018 - 01:42am PT
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Sandbagging is great, always keeps you on your toes. Old school 5.8 and the dreaded "5.9+" ratings are good ways to really beat down your ego.
One hilarious sandbag from a second ascent in the desert a few years ago, our brief, second-hand topo described an "easy 5th class chimney" summit pitch, we found it to be a gnarly 5.10 squeeze:
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 04:12am PT
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I learned early on to be wary of Kor 5.9s...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:02am PT
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I've done my fair share of sandbagging and I have been the unwitting recipient of a sanbag or two. Time moves on and a few years ago as my climbing career approached a half century I experienced the ultimate sandbag...I sandbagged myself.
In the 70’s I did the first free ascent of the Book of Job and blithely rated it 10 b. Forty years later I arrived at the top to hear this comment from my fully knackered partner...”phew, all that work and we only get 5.10 credit!
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:57am PT
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I tried to find the Dirtineye thread on "The Fine Art of Sandbagging the Second", but to no avail.
So classic! Anyone know where it is?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 10:39am PT
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Screwing the Second?
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/201089/The-fine-art-of-screwing-the-second
Most times I've been sandbagged, I think it's been a form of misplaced respect, where some good climber thinks I can climb at their level. Then there's the short-term sandbag when you get up something on lead and you play it off like no big deal, and you smile to yourself while your partner reaches the spot and looks perplexed or starts making all manner of grunting and plosive sounds.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 11:13am PT
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When the weather was too crappy to climb elsewhere in Leavenworth we would climb at
Peshastin in mountain boots and double boots. Coulda filled some sand bags sometimes
from all the scraping!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 11:20am PT
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.I sandbagged myself...
Nothing worse.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:16pm PT
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Finally a decent thread.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
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I bouldered a 40ft finger crack BINTD and called it 5.9. I remember a move down low that I could not reverse and a fairly commiting finish to a desperate tree hug. About 6 or 7 years ago Isa and I tried to lead the thing and neither one of us could get it clean... Must have been old school 9+..
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:36pm PT
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A number of years back on cascadeclimbers.com a boulderer declared in some thread that you'd never get him to walk 2 miles for a boulder. I took that as a challenge, and knowing that he primarily lurked on a different bouldering website I enlisted Bob Van Belle's help to work a conversation on that site about boulders we had "found" back in the day on the northwest side of Tiger Mountain near Seattle which was this particular boulderer's home territory. We conducted a bit of a shadow play as if we hadn't seen each other in years and tried to remember exactly where these boulders were, picking a location that was as remote from the trailhead as possible. That poor guy walked a lot more than 2 miles on trail and cross-country through dank mossy woods over the course of three weekends looking for the hidden stash of glory. Once the long con was finally revealed I think he was a lot less amused than BVB and I were.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:39pm PT
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Noice! Saw some quality moss on Cougar Mt last week. Since it’s a park it would be hard to con someone into transporting an industrial power washer up there. Plenty of water for it though.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Apr 19, 2018 - 03:22pm PT
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I've had it go the other way only once. I was out in Joshua Tree just sitting around. It was the first time I had been there in a couple years and I think my fingers were already getting thin. I'm enjoying the time when my friend Too Strong walks up and start harassing my to do a climb with him. He says its only 10d and I should walk it. I whine a bit about not having climbed any slab in a while but eventually get on the route. I do most of the route but take one fall on the crux before finishing it. When I get back to the ground all my friends are giving me a hard time about falling on only a 5.10 and that I should probably hire a group like 'Reputation Defenders' to regain my glory. Soon enough though a couple hard looking young men walk up and get on the route we just did. None of them could touch it and both ended up aiding thru the crux. So I guess I got that wish and the reputation defenders showed up in the nick of time. Oh and that route... not 5.10. But then I never did trust Too Strong to not be a sand bagger.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Apr 19, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
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Mr. Donini, Thanks for The Book of Job! Great route, old schoool with an intimidating ambiance - kinda like British sea cliffs, except the rock is better.
MrGooseSkin, That chimney looks effin' burly!
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Apr 19, 2018 - 09:18pm PT
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Whenever I asked my friend Doug how hard his new first ascent was he got this weird look in his eye, and this sort of smirky look on his face. The answer was always a series of grumblings at first followed by the always it's not tooo bad ................
Oh that look in his eye !
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2018 - 11:16pm PT
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I did a little searching on what the internet has to say about sandbagging, which is a fair amount. From Cedar Wright: One of the core benefits of sandbagging is that it helps us realize our true potential. Some of my best onsights have happened thanks to a sandbag. A quality sandbag can trick you into realizing that your capabilities are far beyond your expectations. We all need to get sandbagged now and again to grow and become better climbers. That’s why I urge you to sandbag your friends, like Rob Pizem did to us. It’s the right thing to do.
I suppose another game could be the reverse sandbag: sending someone off to do an overprotected, overgraded route that bakes in the sun and has a long line at the base. Guidebook authors who are liberal with stars are often guilty of this one, I think.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Apr 20, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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Barry Bates could make a good size lake with his amount of sandbags.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Apr 20, 2018 - 11:55am PT
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Granite Mountain, where every route is a sandbag.
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ec
climber
ca
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Apr 20, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
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Dingus, it’s only 5.8!!!
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Don Paul
Gym climber
Denver CO
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Apr 20, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
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I never sandbagged anyone on purpose although some of the hardest and most dangerous leads I ever did were recommended by friends, who helped me get better by putting me on routes I would not normally have tried. The worst one was a route called Metamorphosis in Eldo, blind Keith told me to run the pitches together, next thing I knew I was looking at a 30' fall onto a 1/4 inch bolt while trying to get the only nut placement in. The best experience was probably the first pitch of primrose dihedral on Moses, 11d thin crack I would not have tried if I knew the grade. (I almost got it but not quite, then hung on the 5.10 ow higher up too lol)
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:21am PT
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Dingus, awesome story. Thanks.
Granite Mountain, where every route is a sandbag.
Granite Mountain will consistently make you work for the grade. There are a lot of examples there, but Green Savior has to be the best IMHO. Do the Direct start and Crisco Way variations of Green Savior and you’ll feel like you were in a street fight to earn that 5.8!
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Apr 21, 2018 - 08:00am PT
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I can't believe it's a girdle
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 21, 2018 - 07:12pm PT
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The classic Granite Mountain sandbag is the 5.9 first move to the Crack Lovers variation (rated 5.7) of...The Classic. The ratings there screwed up our ratings down in Tucson for a long time where everything was off by a full number grade until we started getting it straightened out.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Apr 21, 2018 - 08:06pm PT
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Saw some climbers from the Gunks at GM in the 70s. They we’re bragging about all the stuff they’d done on their road trip. They decided to start with Crack Lovers. Apparently that kind of crack climbing was new to them and the did all kinds of weird face climbing to avoid it. It was ugly.
Now that I think of it we suggested Crack Lovers to the Gunks crew. So I guess we sandbagged them.
Granite Mountain is awesome...
...and humbling.
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Apr 22, 2018 - 06:01am PT
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Granite Mountain, where every route is a sandbag.
True, but Paradise Forks will give you the same raw deal.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Apr 22, 2018 - 06:51am PT
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Yeah, The Forks are humbling, too...
...as well as being awesome.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I was taught to climb by sandbagging mentors who wanted to climb harder stuff than my beginner butt belonged on so they sandbagged me.
I think it's totally legit to sandbag the second if you are eating your own cooking on lead.
I think sandbagging others is another story and needs to be done with proper discernment that not everyone has. Climbing is dangerous and sandbagging could kill someone. Maybe it has.
Personally, my word counts for something and I'd rather be accurate than play ego games
Unless I need to talk somebody into following me up a route I know they could manage but they don't know it
Peace
Karl
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Funny comments! I moved to Colorado and got a job doing sheet metal work. Met this dude there who was a salty bastard. I knew he climbed and I didn't know any serious climbers but had a few belayers. He would suggest climbs and say yay its RAD! Or COOL! They were all terrifying but classic! He eventually offered a play date. He's been my best partner and friend since and still laughs at how he knew he was trying to get me killed. LOL...
S...
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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"Between the Lines" in the Gunks. I was a fledgling 5.9 leader and the guidebook called in 5.9 and it was in the near Near Trapps and everyone is familiar with that area. Very comfortable venue. Plus there were some pretty girls hanging out right there while their boyfriends were throwing themselves at the start of Broken Sling (5.8) and failing massively. I figured I'd give them a thrill and flash this 5.9 right next to Broken Sling.
30 minutes later I'm still on the ground after having slipped off the first moves and tumbled gracefully down the shale slope more than once.
We packed up walked a long way away from there. And I remember thinking, "Geez, it's only 11 am?!!" I couldn't wait for the end of that day.
Between the Lines is now rated 5.11.
Good times.
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cornel
climber
Lake Tahoe, Nevada
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This is a wonderful thread. Funny stuff..The fine art of sandbagging. Yes indeed, I have been on both ends of this equation many many times and I really think Cedar nailed it. More often than not it forces you to discover hidden talent. Break out of a staid mindset.
On that note, A couple decades back a friend and I were on the last pitch of Salathe and it had been storming on us off and on for 10 days. Turned our 3 day climb into 10. Most of the pitch was covered in about 3 to 4 inches of verglas with another inch or so water running over it.. making for a spicy lead. It was my turn but my partner Jeremy was Mr 5.13+ and I was Mr 10 maybe.. so I convinced him that in the interest of speed(we were way done being wet and hungry) He should dispatch this last 100 ft forthwith. The pitch ended up being one of the most impressive leads I have seen in 40+ yrs of climbing. It was Kind of like laying face down in a stream and then climbing. Took him maybe 30 mins..
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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How about sandbagging yourself?
A friend has been an enthusiastic route developer for a long time
A few years back he tried to repeat a route he put up in the 70's and graded 5.7
He backed off because it was harder then 5.7 and very runout
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Todd Eastman
Social climber
Putney, VT
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Adirondack ratings aside from Poko were always a bit provincial...
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ec
climber
ca
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The definition of the term 'sandbag' as excerpted from the American Heritage Dictionary:
sand·bag
3. Slang c. To downplay or misrepresent one's ability in a game or activity in order to deceive (someone), especially in gambling: sandbagged the pool player by playing poorly in the first game when stakes were low.
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