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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
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Erik,
You are a criminal. Those are not your bolts to sell. That is theft from a national park of historic value. Should go to the park archives or museum collector, like Ken Y.
Contact those you've sold to, refund the money and return the bolts to the public. Those are not yours!
edit-I'l leave my statement stand but in fact I was crackin up when I said that
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Apr 16, 2018 - 09:52pm PT
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Sloan, you sure are a piece of work.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 16, 2018 - 10:46pm PT
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Those are not your bolts to sell.
Why not?
It's just big wall trash.
We used to take those broken off and throw them in the dumpster.
Worthless junk if it's not holding you .......
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 17, 2018 - 05:43am PT
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I wonder if he has any old registers for sale
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Apr 17, 2018 - 06:48am PT
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Cool stuff. I hope they find a home. And I'm with Werner, its all trash and I'm glad he is selling it. It's totally his call and those who are hating on him are just hatin' for hatin's sake. If it was Honnold selling old historical mank found on routes I doubt anybody would have any beef.
I found an old poop tube on a ledge below Pine Line once. Any takers?
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Apr 17, 2018 - 06:52am PT
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We used to take those broken off and throw them in the dumpster.
I suppose but after 50 years doesn't junk become historical junk?
Robbins, Porter, Denny, Harding........
At $175 a pop they don't look destined for the dumpster.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:04am PT
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after 50 years doesn't junk become historical junk?
YES^^^
Totally unethical what he is doing with the older stuff- particularly the stuff put in by famous figures.
He's mining a NP for personal profit. Shame on Werner for condoning it.
They get their panties in a bunch if you move a broken piece of glass that is over 50 years at Facelift. It's a matter of retaining historic perspective. The over- 50-year stuff should be left in place even after the new bolt goes in IPMO... or if it gets removed... hand it over to Ken or the NPS.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:14am PT
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The crazy thing is that there are people who would actually shell out that kind of money for, as Werner says, junk.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:19am PT
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I never said I'm condoning it.
Don't put words where they are not.
I questioned, "why not?"
It is an observation.
It's big wall trash after being removed and replaced, put there by climbers.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:22am PT
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One mans junk is another mans trash.
Looks like he has sold some of them, potential buyers requesting provenance, Wooty's's word is not good enough?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:43am PT
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This is the only piece in this collection of old bolts that is super rare. Nose bolts are hard to come by, and this one, if not original, is pretty darn close. I replaced it at the base of the Great Roof pitch. Warren Harding, or one of his many partners, placed this bolt.
From the first post on MP. It seems to me that it is either original, or it is not. If not, then Harding didn't place it. Who's really to say?
This makes me regret not yanking the old spinner up on Castle Rock Spire as I climbed by it twirling in the wind, ding-a-ling-a-ling. One chance in five Steck placed it in 1950.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:14am PT
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I just checked out Erik's post. Cool looking stuff. I had never seen any Robbins or Harding hangers that were homemade. Rare indeed!
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:29am PT
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All I gotta say is.....
WOOT!
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:39am PT
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Oh well. I straightened my panties out.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:46am PT
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Interesting topic aside from the fact that many of you seem to really dislike Eric Sloan.
I feel strongly that since he did the work to remove them and that they were no longer functional in a safe manner and needed replacement, he is the owner and can sell them. But I really have no idea what I'm talking about....just a gut feeling and an opinion.
Did a little snooping on the interwebs.....
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/heritagebranch/heritage/ArchSignificance.pdf
Does anybody out there in Tacoland actually know much about the laws of the land regarding "relics" and the possession/ownership of what might be considered historical?
If you go metal detecting in Virginia and find some civil war buttons or bullets can you sell them? Is it truly finders keepers out there?
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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I still remember hauling from the belay right after the great roof, looking at some really old bolts flexing....Yikes! At that point, I would have paid $100 for someone to replace one of those bolts (if I had $100...).
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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As a somewhat minor part of my work I deal with the various cultural resources legal regimes:
Here are some basics as a starting point:
https://www.doi.gov/museum/laws-and-regulations
My advice on this matter would be that invoking federal cultural resource protection laws to protect rusty climbing mank and tat would cause far more harm and hassle in the long run for climbers.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:56am PT
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I thought national parks were about ‘take only pictures, leave only footprints’?
I guess there is a caveat; ‘unless yer entitled’.
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John M
climber
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:04am PT
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Plenty of museums buy the artifacts they put on display. Perhaps if the community does value them, then they should think about joining together and buying a few of the more important pieces.
10 dollars each from the people just on supertopo would buy a few of them.
I am not condoning this. My own feelings are that they belong to history. But how many here have their own collections of artifacts? Some of which you paid good money for.
The fact that they came from public land perhaps has some merit. But I really wouldn't want to get the park service involved in this. It can get really weird when they do. Just settle it among yourselves. Can you imagine the park service having a say in what gets replaced on routes. Ugh..
Edit:
I thought national parks were about ‘take only pictures, leave only footprints’?
I guess there is a caveat; ‘unless yer entitled’.
So roger brown should just leave all of the manky bolts he has replaced over the years? I do get that pieces having important history should get some consideration. But what is that consideration? and who decides a piece has historical importance?
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:22am PT
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if erik wants to sell some old classic rusty hangers to a good home so that he can fund more bolt replacement, then that doesn't sound like the worst thing. He has put the time, money, and work to replace these old bolts...and they are his to do with as he pleases. i myself have replaced dozens of old bolts on el cap, and have kept a few for my private museum...including an original bolt from the NA wall stamped YC for yvon chouinard. I don't agree with all of erik's so-called stewardship programs and have told him as much, but old hangers are the reward for somebody REPLACING old bolts. ss
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:34am PT
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they are his to do with as he pleases.
It would be nice if somebody who actually knows the law would confirm or deny this.
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:42am PT
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I have a wooden wedge I removed from the compressor on Cerro Torre. I am pretty sure it was left there by Cesare Maestri. I am asking $3,753 for it.
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Apr 17, 2018 - 10:16am PT
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I wonder what some would say if someone the replaced old bolts with brand spanking new ones bought at their own expense started charging a fee to anyone who thereafter used them in their ascent.
How do you define ownership? Maybe Sloan is selling the old bolts to recover some of his costs in re-placing the old bolts. Does that make a difference?
People here argue about anything, typically self-righteous in tone.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 17, 2018 - 10:56am PT
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Your hatred for Eric has you pissing over him selling shards of worthless scrap metal on the internet. It's pitiful and comical. It's a fantasy to think that stuff has any value at all and you're just as much a narc as you claim he is to believe it. Nobody is paying top dollar for that junk.
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Da-Veed
Big Wall climber
Bigfork
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Apr 17, 2018 - 11:24am PT
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Historical...YES.
Dangerous...YES.
WTF are you going to do? Place a plaque next to them stating that it was placed by Robbins or Harding 50 years ago? But be sure not to clip them!
Making money off this is lame indeed, they should be donated. At the very least the money being made should be put back into the Facelift or Access Fund or something similar.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Apr 17, 2018 - 11:26am PT
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Powerdrills don't last forever. Maybe he needs a replacement?
Tree saw dull?
Behind in child support? Again.
Life's hard in wootland.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 17, 2018 - 11:43am PT
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JLP and some others nail it.
This is a lot like Trump Derangement Syndrome. (I'd imagine a lot of you are guilty of committing that venial sin as well--it's human nature, just something to watch out for.)
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Apr 17, 2018 - 11:48am PT
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Could this lead to artifact collecting. I have done a lot of old routes and there are tons of pitons that if you documented where they were from could sell on the internet in no time. Not sure it is a great idea encourage this. You are alos getting into should a pin be replaced with a bolt debate.
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brotherbbock
climber
So-Cal
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Apr 17, 2018 - 11:58am PT
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Who is gonna stop Wooty boy if it is deemed illegal?
One of you guys??? Yeah right!
He will continue to woot as he pleases.
Just let the man get his woot on.... he will bolt, chop, and sell.
Nothing phases the man as we have seen in the past...especially the taco calling him out.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Apr 17, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
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Have you ever taken a rock from a National Park?
Have you ever failed to keep your dog on a leash in a National Park?
Have you ever gone sledding in a parking lot in a National Park?
Have you ever foraged for food in a National Park?
ALL of the above are "Breakin' the law....breakin' the law...."
If you've ever done any of these, please, quit making a case for the legality of replacing mank. I really appreciate what guys like Eric, Roger, the ASCA etc do for replacing these things in general. Let it go. You'll only invite restriction, conflict and poor optics onto the climbing community as a whole.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Redmond, Oregon
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Apr 17, 2018 - 12:31pm PT
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I am thankful that Erik is making these available to collectors.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
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Apr 17, 2018 - 03:20pm PT
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Shipoopoi nails it.
Bolt replacement is a tedious chore, and every day someone spends doing it is a day they don’t spend climbing, or making a living for that matter. If this is what it takes to get the mank swapped out, then it’s okay by me. You don’t have to approve of everything Erik’s done over the years (I sure don’t) to acknowledge that his 1:1 replacement work benefits us all.
And when you’re done, E, go ahead and divide your ‘dollars received’ by ‘hours spent’ so we can all get worked up about how rich you’re becoming with this knuckle-bashing toil that few others seem to want to do.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Apr 17, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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Look how many folks scoured routes and the base of cliffs for Salathe pins, for example. They were (and very much are) a coveted item.
In later years...maybe some get sold to collectors.
Right, wrong, indifferent?
I dunno. I have a few bolt hangers and old pins from replacement work. Kinda neato.
If you take the initiative to do the work, maybe you should reap the rewards of your efforts? I know I contribute to bolt replacement efforts when I can, but, if you really had to pay a person to do it? What are they supposed to do with all that junkie hardware?
I dunno. "Woot" maybe...
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7SacredPools
Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
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Apr 17, 2018 - 07:41pm PT
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Don't know why but I just read that whole origamiboulder thing.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Apr 17, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 17, 2018 - 09:10pm PT
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For sale - my jockstrap from a NIAD ascent - in July - one million dollars.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Apr 17, 2018 - 11:05pm PT
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Don't know why but I just read that whole origamiboulder thing.
You climber, not smart dumb dumb
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Apr 18, 2018 - 12:08am PT
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This is one of the LEAST offensive things Sloan has done, which is saying something...
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Apr 18, 2018 - 02:05am PT
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Amazed they are going for so much.
As an original board member of the ASCA with Chris Mac, and the fact that I had donated a bunch of A5 gear for auctions to help with the original bolt replacements, I was given 8 original Harding Nose bolts by Chris, along with a few other old bolts from other routes. I had the foresight to label them carefully for my personal collection of junk gear. I gave some of them to Chessler after he bought a bunch of books from me, too—wonder if he ever sold them off.
All I can say is, wow! $175 for an old bolt. That’s supply and demand. Would anyone object if he was selling them for $5, I wonder?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 18, 2018 - 03:46am PT
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Gaurenteed no one would object if he was one of the cool kids... don't know if the park has a museam? if they do at least some of the mank should go there.. devils tower used to display fritz's shoes and rope but that is all gone now to make room for retail space...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 18, 2018 - 07:23am PT
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Thief of time.
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John M
climber
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Apr 18, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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Erik did say on the mountain project thread that he had donated some of them to Ken. If he replaces 20 bolts on a route, how many of them does he have to donate before selling the rest becomes OK? How many can a museum use?
I'm just wondering. I am not trying to defend Erik's actions. I don't really care either way. I just believe that people should be informed before they go after someone.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 18, 2018 - 07:52am PT
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What do people who buy this junk do with it anyway?
Stare at it?
I've stared at these bolts and hangers when they were on the rock wall.
Why would you want to stare at a bolt on your wall at home?
:-)
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Apr 18, 2018 - 08:09am PT
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Why would you want to stare at a bolt on your wall at home?
There is some utility in old hangers...
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Gail Hightower
climber
SE
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Apr 18, 2018 - 09:01am PT
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I replace bolts in the SE and plenty of people like them as key hangers or whatever. I've given loads of old hangers, from the 80s and early 90s, to people who come to trail days and all that.
I don't know anything about Sloan, but these old bits of trash are treasures to a lot of people who like having "the third bolt of x route" mounted on the wall and used to clip their keys. It is a physical connection to keep, especially to a place you perhaps can't visit as often as you'd like.
Seems better to me than throwing them all away, and helps keep the connection.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Apr 18, 2018 - 10:55am PT
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Gail,
I replace bolts also and I have kept all of them. I agree with you that to most people they are junk but to some they just might be something special. I "bag and tag" usually the day of replacement. Each bolt/hanger in it's own baggie with a shipping tag on the hanger with date, route, pitch, and bolt number. If I have a bolt/hanger that really means a lot to someone I will just give it to them, and I have. If anything happens to me my wife will let Ken have first choice then give the rest to the grandkids and let them sell them on ebay. I have thousands from Yosemite.
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Apr 18, 2018 - 11:05am PT
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Hating on Roger = Hard
Hating on Erik = Easy
The crux is in the "why".
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Apr 18, 2018 - 04:34pm PT
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Erik is a kind person and a excellent wall climber, guidebook author, guess that makes him easy to hate on. The other guy doesn't climb, making him easy for ST members to relate. . .df
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 18, 2018 - 05:28pm PT
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I just looked through some old pins that I have collected over the years. stuff that came out with only fingers.. a few were tagged and the writeing faded completely. others no tags. Some I think I remember where they came from. others no clue.. wish I had labled them better... same thing with the hangers...
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:40am PT
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In addition to the Maestri wedge listed above, I also have the original bolt from the Right Ski Track. The bolt held hundreds of falls, but it pulled with one swing of the hammer. Cracked half way through and rusty as hell It is available for only $1700
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:46am PT
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It is available for only $1700
PM sent.
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RURP_Belay
Big Wall climber
Bitter end of a bad anchor
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:48am PT
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^^LOL.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:52am PT
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Speaking of a Maestri wedge.
I left it in situ....hmmm, I also threw away my Mickey Mantle rookie card.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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I have an old fixed alumi-head or something that I ripped during a slab-slider on Coonyard Pinnacle. What's that worth?
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gruzzy
Social climber
socal
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Apr 19, 2018 - 10:06pm PT
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I've seen far too many ugly protection bolts in my few years of climbing.
I thank people who know how to replace bolts and actually do replace bolts.
Just like all the whiners here, I'm too lazy to do it!
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Apr 20, 2018 - 07:25am PT
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No, Scole, I pulled that homemade Robbins bolt and hanger off Right Ski Track* and gave it to Gaines.
Ok, price reduced, only $1500 for the second crux bolt on Right Ski Track
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 20, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
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Funniest reply on the MP thread
Erik, I'm interested in buying all the pussy bolts you've added to El Cap over the years and your epic bolt ladder and bail anchors in Church Bowl. How much are you selling those for? WOOT.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Apr 22, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
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Ill gladly preserve your old bolts!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:00am PT
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any of you archaeological crusaders notice the recent paving of the oldest and most historically significant dwelling site in the Valley?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:04am PT
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What's the story?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:22am PT
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contract very quietly awarded and executed with no public consult or comment. NPS claims there was a comment opportunity and EPA study as part of the 1984 Valley Master Plan. But hey, it's cool. they're building a comfort station with 2 showers.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Apr 23, 2018 - 08:51am PT
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Ive got a bunch rusty junk, original Gunks Wiessner & Kraus pins These were given to me by Hans K, my 1st pair of climbing shoesI have a pair of prot-type Scarpa's from Ms Hill as well.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 23, 2018 - 10:55am PT
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The gross materialists always are burdened by way too many material attachments .....
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gruzzy
Social climber
socal
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Apr 23, 2018 - 12:19pm PT
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Thats a nice well organized, displayed collection.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Apr 24, 2018 - 08:29am PT
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If you were to purchase one of these hangers, which one would you choose?
I did purchase one of these for the Chouinard segment of the Karabin Museum and paid $183 total.
I am thrilled to have this hanger! Of course I have the biggest hanger collection in the world but at the same time I thank Erik for his presented opportunity.
Which hanger would you choose?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 24, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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If there's a buyer and a seller, and there is consent...
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Roots
Mountain climber
Redmond, Oregon
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Apr 24, 2018 - 10:04am PT
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Why is the one broken through?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Apr 24, 2018 - 11:27am PT
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I've taken a few bolt hangers off routes, but only 1/4 inchers that pull out from rope drag...I keep them for my personal collection ;-)
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Apr 24, 2018 - 11:41am PT
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Personal attacks on Erik = super classy.
I guess I better fess up for the shitty old piton I kept from one of my climbs up El Cap eh? Major history here!
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:38pm PT
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Gee Jim, a bit cynical eh.
Some of us punters dig seeing, even clipping the old bolts. In Pinnacles one route has a door handle...it would suck if someone pulled that, and then sold it as history. It just seems cheesy-and i'm not accusing Erik, i don't even know him. But his "ethics" seem suspect,
that doesn't help. Profiting off of "volunteer" work for the asca, or donation of your own time seems less than noble. And it strips the crags of their history... I agree with the folks here who like to see old bolts in situ, flippable or not. It gives me a sense of wonder, at what climbers are capable of.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Apr 24, 2018 - 07:49pm PT
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Canada..... pffffft
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 24, 2018 - 08:33pm PT
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Hmmm... I guess I won't bring up breaking Chuck Wilts' hammer.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Apr 24, 2018 - 09:58pm PT
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Roots - The hanger probably broke during a haul or on a fall. My guess it was during a haul.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Apr 24, 2018 - 10:03pm PT
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Jim that Mike Law was quite the clown. I read his book. Loved it. Good joke!
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cavemonkey
Ice climber
ak
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2018 - 10:45pm PT
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I just think it’s important to be out in the open
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| Messages 1 - 76 of total 76 in this topic |
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