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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 15, 2018 - 09:01pm PT
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i am currently in the market for a rotary hammer, a cordless makita is the obvious choice for me since i already have 5 or 6 makita tools. i have been looking at the
Makita 18-Volt LXT Lithium-Ion 7/8 in. Cordless SDS-Plus Concrete/Masonry Rotary Hammer Drill of which there are 2 models
XRH03Z
XRH04Z
i need it for my work as an electrician, as well as drilling the odd bolt in granite OUTSIDE of yosemite
any beta?
steve schneider
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Apr 15, 2018 - 09:15pm PT
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While technology improvements in batteries and power tools have reduced the need for large voltage batteries, 18v is kinda on the weak side for multiple holes at depth in concrete. Even more so in granite. On the job site how deep and what diameter hole are you commonly drilling into concrete ? Or just make sure you have more than 2 batteries.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 15, 2018 - 09:54pm PT
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IMO, depends what else you have. I have a few hammer drills of increasing aggression and power.
It's nice to have something light that can drill mortar without pulverizing it or something to get a hole near the edge of a piece of stone without chipping it off - then it's also nice to have something you can bust through an 8" wall with.
I have a lot of Makita stuff because of the batteries - all great tools. I prefer each of them over the equivalent Dewalts, for sure.
I'd generally rather swap smaller batteries and have a light tool in my hand. The lithium batteries charge so fast, it's irrelevant.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Apr 15, 2018 - 10:01pm PT
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ryobi er-160
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Apr 15, 2018 - 10:16pm PT
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I'm an 18v Bosch guy now. The only reason to go heavier on amh/v is if you aren't stancing or have to do a lot of holes for work, especially overhead.
Though if you haven't drilled on lead with the 18v before, try it out first on easy ground. It doesn't have the same 'bounce and engagement' that the older Bosch's do.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 15, 2018 - 10:32pm PT
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The Makita 1.5 Amh batteries sucked bigtime. I think 2.0 is the smallest now - great size for a small impact driver and will last several hours of near continuous use - but kind of small for a hammer drill - figure at least a 3.0 or 4.0 for such a beast. 5.0 seems nice, I'd like one for something like a sawzall or circular saw - otherwise I have a bunch of 4.0's that do fine. If I were drilling a granite sport pitch, I think I'd probably want 2-3 5.0's fully charged to get a decent length pitch in - just a guesstimate.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 16, 2018 - 02:52am PT
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The 5 ah dewalt batteries are absolutely sick.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2018 - 08:38pm PT
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i was hoping somebody actually had experience with these because they are only available online and i hate to buy something that i have not been able to fondle previously. ss
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Apr 17, 2018 - 12:43am PT
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Is it an ergonomics thing? Makita is my go to brand for getting the job done and durability. Some brands fit my hand better or are balanced better. The word fondle stuck out.
S....
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 09:25am PT
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it doesn't sound like anybody here actually owns one of these, so i am still wondering whether to go for it or not. i have 4 18v makita batteries in my tool quiver, and just thought this would be a good additioin. ss
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 17, 2018 - 03:59pm PT
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Once you have a few of the batteries, it's all downhill until you have the whole collection including the weed whacker.
Lots of vids on youtube reviewing most tools, it can be a rampant consumer tool nerd fest out there, surprised you posted here. With Makita, sometimes you have to find the Euro part number equivalent or just search for Makita hammer drills in general.
I like their recent sub compact line of tools, the black ones, they have a rotary hammer version too, quite a bit smaller and lighter than the models you are looking at. Might not work for someone drilling dowels into concrete all day, but maybe an electrician - it's a pretty unmanly tool, though, guys at work might think you have a small dik.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 17, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
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I do know that at work the new dewalt 20v brushless impact drivers with the 5AH batteries made the Makita 18v units obsolete instantly. I would get an 8in timberlock or 8"X 5/16th" GRK half sunk and totally stuck with the Makita and have to borrow one of the new Dewalts to instantly sink it. There is not even any compareson at all. Sinking 3" x 5/16: GRKs into LVL carrying beam I would literaly get at least 6 screws in with my new Dewalt 20v Max XR with the 5ah battery to every one the boss would get in with the 18v Makita. I have no idea how this translates to the respective rotary hammers other than anything brushless with a 5AH battery is going to kick butt over the smaller batteries.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 17, 2018 - 04:42pm PT
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So a bit of quick research.
Makita sub compact 18v rotary hammer 4.2 lbs No idea how well it works???
Dewalt 20V max brushless 6.2 lbs. assume it works as well as my other 20V max tools which are all very impressive.
My Bosch 36v is about 6.5 lbs
The sub compact Makita would be quite interesting for lead bolting if it is fast and gets you at least 10 holes so you can finish a pitch and get an anchor in..
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 17, 2018 - 04:45pm PT
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You're really just comparing tools. Makita presently has a drill driver with the highest torque, even with that wimpy 18V, maybe next month Dewalt will be selling it, maybe Milwaukee the month after. 20V over 18V means pretty much nothing except to marketing and meatheads.
That said, thing I don't like about Dewalt is they obfuscate their performance parameters by either not listing them or by making up their own non-sense metrics - so you really have no idea. Fine company, own lots of their stuff, it won't be junk whatever you get - but might not be the best either.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Apr 17, 2018 - 06:25pm PT
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This is what I have. I get between 12-14 3/8x3 1/2" out of each charge in granite and concrete. Cons is that it's heavy and long. If drilling on lead its a PIA. If rapping it's a non issue. It has way more torque than my Bosch 18v but my Bosch is way better on lead due to it's compact size and light weight.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
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thanks batrock, nice to finally talk to somebody that owns and uses one of these...i think that is the XRHO84Z version. yeah, rap bolting is no problem for me outside the park, and i think it'll work for my electrical work as well. i'll probably hesitate a little more and then go for it
thanks to everybody else for their opinions, really appreciate, steve schneider
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 18, 2018 - 02:58am PT
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JLP side by side on a construction crew the dewalt 20v Max brushless with 5 ah batteries roughly 6 times faster and more powerfull than Makita 18v.... to be fair the makitas have the lithium batteries but are not new??
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 18, 2018 - 05:52am PT
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Both companies make a lot of drills, the Makita XPH07 is 1080 inch-lbs to Dewalts advertised “800 UWO” DCD996. I have no idea wtf UWO means except “not as good as the competition”, but someone figured it out and concluded the Makita had more torque. I’m sure many Dewalt drills are more powerful than many Makita, doesn’t say anything without specifics - and good luck getting those.
Point is, these guys all have access to the same technology and they know thier competition, there is no “Top Brand” for anything, it’s just personal preferences - and how many batteries you already have, they can be more expensive than the tools.
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Apr 18, 2018 - 07:49am PT
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I am currently running all Makita Brushless 18v Lxt. That’s multiple drills, 6” circ saw, and saws all. Recently got the Cxt drills for lighter stuff ie cabinetry which I do alot of. I have a both a corded and cordlesshammer drill ( Bosch bulldogs)No need for another one. Over 30 years of full time carpentry I have tried all the brands . Bosch use to great then it was Milwaukee tried the Dewalt drills... total junk. Gave it away. Only Dewalt tool I recommend is the 3 knife bench planer, the rest is for homeowners. Makita cordless tools have a much more solid feel. Just got their 18v multi tool with a 5.0 battery to use when I am too lazy to bust out a cord for the Fien tool...the thing is solid and rips! Ultimately if you already have Makita batteries stick with that. Cheers... now get to work!
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andy@climbingmoab
Big Wall climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Apr 19, 2018 - 01:48pm PT
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I've been using the Makita XRH03Z for a few years. Its a great drill - light enough to drill on lead with, and it has done fine drilling even in hard quartzite.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 19, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
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You sure that you aren't putting up a route by WoS?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 19, 2018 - 02:15pm PT
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If dewalt is for homeowners they certainly fooled about half the construction companys that I run into...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 04:01pm PT
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I’ve a pile of drills it isn’t worth buying new batteries for.
IMHO ‘cordless’ means ‘environmental disaster’.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
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I have my eye on this
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 19, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
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that thing is insanely light! if it actually drills fast enough and enough holes in real stone it would be THE ticket for lead drilling.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 19, 2018 - 05:07pm PT
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I handled one in the store last night - it's indeed insanely light - and also very small and compact. It feels more like 1 lb in the hand, like a squirt gun or something. I didn't drill anything with it, though...
If it works well enough for bolting, I could see this thing taking over the climbing market.
I already have 3 hammer drills, can't at all justify another...
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 19, 2018 - 08:55pm PT
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I read a review- 10 holes per compact battery and it accepts full size batteries.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^
does that take the regular 18v batteries? if so i'm heading to home depot tomorrow.ss
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 19, 2018 - 09:32pm PT
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My feel for 2.0 battery life would suggest that’s more like 10 shallow holes in fresh concrete - but extra 2.0 batts are nearly weightless and grabbing a 4.0 or 5.0 for a bigger job ain’t no thing. I have their compact drill and impact driver, super happy, zero sacrifice over heavier tools. I have larger drivers, but rarely use them except for boring large holes.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 20, 2018 - 03:02am PT
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Spare battery can be on the other end of the tag line.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
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JLP...what store did you see that at, i struck out at my local home depot. ss
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 21, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
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It was Depot as well. My location is showing free delivery if you order it online. You can return to local store if you don't like it. It's also on Amazon Prime for the same price. Why drive. I hate driving.
I dunno about tool brands - except I can say the absolute best crew I've had at my house had a lot of Harbor Freight. Absolute worst crew ever showed up with a bunch of Hilti and Festool.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Apr 21, 2018 - 10:36pm PT
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made you pay them eh? Slower than fuk working cost plus - thought a lot of themselves - fired.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 22, 2018 - 05:40am PT
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when I started full time carpentry I really needed a job. all I had for drills and drivers was Ryobi. one of the kids on the crew that I signed up with was super critical. gave me sh#t all the time about my crap tools. finally we did a test 4" green screw into pressure treated. Ryobi won the race. I ran those Ryobi drivers 40hrs a week for 8 years and now they still do light duty in my wood shop. I have acquired a pretty good kit and it is a complete mix of the best tools that I could afford. Millwake, Makita,Bosch, Dewalt, Freued. Fein, etc. I now run the dewalt impact drivers because they are the fastest that I have encountered. At one point I ordered an 18v Ryobi rotary hammer. I tested it in stone and returned it. Not fast enough. I now run a 36v bosch rotary hammer. I guess my point is that I am not hung up on brand names I simply want the best tool for the job regardless of brand.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 22, 2018 - 09:20am PT
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I try to convince my employees and subs that paper and pen, so to speak are the most poweful tools- write sh#t down, form a plan, sketch it out, refine it to material and cut list, make it clear- no ambiguity. Retracing steps and arguing who's memory is more fuked up when sh!t goes bad is a job killer.
Our electrian details out everything, makes job schematics on his set of plans, keeps them filed, marks out the job in incredible detail and then photographs all his work. As a result, has as much fun time and toys as anyone I know.
BTW- I've never noticed what type of drill he uses...
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Greg Kuchyt
Trad climber
Richmond,VT
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Apr 26, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
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I own a 36V Bosch and that compact XRH06ZB Makita. The Makita is still new to me and I only have 12-24 holes on it using a 3.0 Ah battery. So far, in the cold and with medium strength rock I can get 6-8 1/2" holes on one battery while also using it with a recip saw to do some pruning at a new cliff.
I mainly do bolt replacement, occasionally putting up a new route. I picked up the Makita for days when I am going out to look at something and may need to fix a bolt on the spot because it's close to half the weight of my Bosch.
For bolt replacement when I'm dealing with lots of holes and corroded bolts I prefer the Bosch. The increased power of a 36V tool is helpful when spinning wedge bolts and it makes reaming out a hole to a larger diameter a non-issue. From what I've seen the lower voltage tools don't spin wedges as well. I haven't done an exhaustive comparison of no-load RPMs in rotary mode but I suspect 36V have higher RPMs.
My one sentence summary of the Makita is that it's a good tool designed for lower volume usage where the weight and size are valued over other factors. It's not intended to be an industrial tool like a Bosch or Hilti. Nothing from the exterior looks outright terrible, it's all glass-fiber reenforced nylon which is standard for good tool.
One thing I will say about the Makita is that the vibration dampening is a little less effective and I've found on deep new holes 1/2" x 4" my hands start to get a little numb. I don't feel this with the Bosch as it drills faster and also seems to dampen the vibration better. A corollary to that is that at times the drill can chatter a bit and you need to be mindful of that and support the drill in order to minimize chowdering the hole. For anyone who has experience drilling, this isn't a big deal but I could see a young gun blasting out a hole by not properly supporting the tool.
I like the weight and size of the Makita and on days where you may want other tools like a compact recip saw or an angle grinder (for recalcitrant bolts or cutting steel chain for anchors) it's nice to be able to use a one battery solution for all the tools. If you are only using the Makita lightly (a dozen or less holes) and are invested in Makita tools, it's a good choice. If I were buying into a battery stack for the first time though, I'd stop and look around a bit.
I've used one of the "20V" Dewalt rotary hammers and it seemed nice and it seemed capable but it wasn't much lighter than my Bosch. Given how cheap the Makita is, the fact that its strengths are exactly the qualities I was valuing, and the fact that I'm already into Makita's batteries, I don't regret this purchase. If I wanted one drill to do re-bolting and put up new routes or work on a construction site. I'd get the Bosch or a Hilti.
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schwortz
Social climber
"close to everything = not at anything", ca
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Apr 26, 2018 - 04:35pm PT
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Also heard good things about the XRH06ZB Makita and am also already invested in the Makita batteries. will post up if/when I pick one up and drill some holes.
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Greg Kuchyt
Trad climber
Richmond,VT
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May 11, 2018 - 06:04am PT
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Maybe beating a dead horse here, but some interesting stats.
I have the Bosch 3611J03R10 which I guess goes by GBH 36 V-EC as well. It's the standard compact 36V model, but likely 7 years old at this point.
Looking at the tech sheet...
-The Bosch hits with 50% more energy on every blow (1.8 J vs 1.2 J on the Makita)
-The no load RPM on the Bosch is 1500 RPM, versus 680 RPM on the Makita.
-The impacts per minute is roughly the same. Bosch 4850 IPM, Makita 4800 IPM
-Not including the battery the Bosch weighs ~25% more. Batteries will make a huge weight difference as the 36V cells are heavier. Weighing on my scale, the Makita w/5.0 Ah batteries is half the weight of the Bosch with a 2.6 Ah battery.
-Interestingly they have about the same cutting capacity in concrete at 18mm for the Bosch and 17mm for the Makita. I would feel more comfortable pushing the Bosch a bit more on that than I would the Makita.
On-going usage opinion, I re-affirm the sub-compact Makita is a great drill for light duty use. I don't think the tool is necessarily incapable of lots of work, but the greater "power" and robustness of the Bosch will be noticeable if you're drilling a lot of holes or need to drill large holes.
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WBraun
climber
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May 11, 2018 - 07:13am PT
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Greg thanks for the reviews.
I have about 8 various impact guns Bosch, Milwaukee, Ingersol Rand, for my job.
I'm not looking for a bolt gun but I always appreciate people who do write-ups like yours on products,
it really helps so much ......
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jskierpx
Trad climber
Truckee
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Thanks for the info on this thread. I have a handful of Makita 18v LXT so I pulled the trigger on the XRH06ZB. Picked it up on EBAY new for $150 (tool only). I will update after I do some bolting, but since I only put up a few routes a season I think it will work out well.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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After 30 years in the construction industry I went through the succession of cordless drills and impact drivers.
Makita, Porter Cable, Milwaukee, DeWalt, Bosch . . . the Makita is consistently a better tool for extreme use.
There are others that may be worth looking at: Hilti and Hitachi.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2019 - 04:00pm PT
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yeah, i still have not pulled the trigger, so let us know how that makita actually works out. ss
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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May 10, 2019 - 04:44pm PT
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Just an FYI. I have been using the Bosch 18V for the last two years now and really like it. I have 3 4Ah batteries and a 6Ah and just bought a new 6.3Ah. The 6Ah battery is pretty impressive so I am assuming the 6.3 will be just as good. The last route I put up I drilled 16 holes 3/8X 3.5" deep and still had plenty of juice left on the single battery. I would guess I can get at least another 3-4 holes off the same battery. Yesterday I drilled a few 1/2" holes with the new 6.3 battery just to see how it did and it had no problem at all. All the drilling I have been doing is on either really hard limestone or quartz Monzonite and granite.
I still have my 18V Makita but the Bosch is so light it's the no brainer choice for most routes, especially drilling on lead.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 11, 2019 - 08:44am PT
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I got a Bosch Bulldog 18v with the brushless motor. It's terrific. The brushless motor is a game changer. Technology marches on.
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jskierpx
Sport climber
Truckee
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May 23, 2019 - 08:09am PT
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I put in some bolts a few days ago and the drill works great. Another quality Makita tool to add to the tool box. Right now I have 3x 2ah batteries and I should get around 12 bolts per battery (need to get more in different types of rock to work out its average performance). But in any case, a 4-6ah battery or two may be a good call, although right now it is ridiculously lightweight with the 2ah battery on there :)
Brushless indeed is a game changer. Again I grabbed this (tool only) NIB on eBay for $150 shipped. Seems hard to beat that if you have the battery bank laying around already.
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