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skitch
Gym climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 18, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
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Has anyone had a chance to try these out yet? They are making them in sizes up to eu50. . . according to backcountrygear.com I've always wished TC Pro's came in size 47. . . so hopefully the Maestro Mid fits and climbs damn near the same as the TC Pro.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 19, 2018 - 03:47am PT
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They look lower
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skitch
Gym climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2018 - 09:14am PT
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If scarpa is smart then they likely copied the TC Pro. . . they look like the same height to me. . .
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 19, 2018 - 02:40pm PT
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I hope it’s less clunky.
Personally, I would rather deal with the ocassional bloody ankle bone then wear any of the high tops I’ve seen so far going back to the Kaukulator.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2018 - 02:44pm PT
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The size 48?
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Feb 19, 2018 - 03:06pm PT
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Interesting, I'll have to check that out. I'm more of a Scarpa foot than a Sportiva foot, TC Pro's just don't feel right on my feet. Of course a pair of Boreal Ballet Golds and Evolv Astromans probably have the category well covered for me, so the smart man might not pursue the question.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Feb 20, 2018 - 01:50am PT
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The Maestri is a stiffer version that is good for aid. Comes with a coupon for $30 off a when combined with a compressor purchase.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 20, 2018 - 05:15am PT
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Still looks lower,....
The only way to tell is with a foot in it!
Beware, lateral malleoulus carnage!
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 20, 2018 - 06:30am PT
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The height of the TCPro isn't my biggest concern, I'm more of a length kind of guy.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Feb 20, 2018 - 08:34am PT
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Looks promising- you'll have to get back to us with a report.
I've got foot issues so I need a stiffer shoe. TC Pros are a bit too stiff and the wrong shape for my foot - so they are pretty uncomfortable.
I rotate and constantly resole 6 pairs of Grandstones and one pair of JB Hightops while the climbing shoe industry figures out a suitable replacment...which hasn't materialized yet. Really wish they would just re-instate the Grandstones.
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skitch
Gym climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 20, 2018 - 08:49am PT
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The TC PRo is $185, and only goes up to size 46. . . so for $5 more the fact that they are building all the way up to size 50eu is great for me, but I don't expect as much from my shoes as you do Jebus...
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Feb 20, 2018 - 09:42am PT
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Consider me curious. Butora’s are close but not quite it. As much as I like them I’m willing to give these a go. $190......
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Feb 20, 2018 - 09:47am PT
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I'm in! Sportivas don't fit my feet right and I have lamented how I had to pass on the Kaukulators back in the day and later the TC Pros. My favorite pair of shoes ever were some 90s era Scarpa Edges. I rotated a couple of pairs of those for as long as I could. $190 is a lot, though everything seems crazy expensive now...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 20, 2018 - 10:23am PT
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I also have astromans and the high top Buturas.
The Astro are a floppy non technical, wide shoe, stiffness is made by your foot basically on the sole. Very little mid/insole. For me they are too wide at the length that fits me, so I can't really edge with them. Also they are made for people with flat feet, and I have a big space under the arch of my foot. I think of them, for my style foot, as an invert only shoe, like the Acopa jb's were. Ymmv
The Buturas are a much better made, higher tech shoe. Unfortunately I have the wide, green, ones and I need the brown, narrow version. They were the only ones in my size at a deal @ OR that I couldn't pass up! Will report back when I get the narrows....
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 20, 2018 - 05:46pm PT
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I picked up the Butora Wide Low top (Mantra) with the board lasted sole. . . in a size "14" which ended up being just as tight as my 46 TC Pros. . . I'm still pretty pissed about that, and they removed my review from Butoras website. . .so now people will continue not knowing what size they should order.
Too bad even the bigger brick & mortar climbing shops like eastside sports or even rei refuse to carry bigger sizes in climbing shoes besides beginner models.
I'm excited that Scarpa is making a low top version of the Maestro, hopefully they both fit me well, the Katana lace Up (supposedly uses the same last as TC Pro) scrunches my foot in the weirdest way and causes the bones in the arch of my feet to scream at me when climbing. . .
Living on the Eastside makes me believe that the TC Pro is one of the more popular shoes around, but maybe thats just because I live in a "granite bubble" where everyone wears TC's. You'd think Sportiva would make a 47 and 48 in the more popular technical shoes, not just the beginner shoes.
If the Maestro shoes climb as well as the TC Pro and the sizing fits me correctly then I'll definately drop the dough to stock up on them, I'm sick of having to painfully break in TC Pros just to have a good climbing shoe. . . and once it breaks in I only have a few months of climbing before it needs a resole, which tends to f0ck up the fit of my shoes. . . especially the expensive places like the rubber room.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Feb 21, 2018 - 11:57am PT
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Who can afford any of these? Hopefully the scarpas are better and cheaper.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2018 - 12:47pm PT
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The Maestro is retailing for $190. . . I don't like the price, but anytime I've tried to save money by buying asian or US made climbing shoes I've regretted it. . . so I'll just try to find the best price I can in the italian made shoe. . .and hope it lasts a while. Climbing is not a poor mans sport, unless your job is in climbing. . . and the pro deals are plentiful.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 21, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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Adjusted for inflation, shoes are much cheaper now than when I started (early 90s). They're quite a bit better too (although early 90s shoes were not bad by any means). I cant's say about earlier times, but I strongly suspect that shoes were even more expensive (in real terms) before I started.
I have a few pairs of TC Pros in the rotation so may be a while for me, but Maestro definitely looks like a contender for that style of shoe.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
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I remember high end climbing shoes were around $120-$140 the year I started climbing (2000), how much did a high end shoe cost in 1990? According to this Inflation Calculator $100 in 1990 is equivalent to $190 now. . .
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 21, 2018 - 02:10pm PT
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Climbing shoes in the early 90s were about $100 for the cheapest (things like 5.10 Summits), high end shoes (more equivalent to Maestro) were closer to $150.
And now it is very easy to get %20 coupons and avoid sales tax. In the pre-Internet days, you went to your local climbing shop (in Boulder, in that era, it was Neptunes, Boulder Mountaineer, and Mountain Sports), and paid full MSRP plus tax.
Perhaps the difference in real terms was not as great as I wrote--instead of shoes being "much cheaper" now, I probably should have just wrote "cheaper." (Although, if you look at the entire price range and not just the most expensive shoes, "much cheaper" is probably accurate.)
My main point was to rebut any notion that climbing equipment is getting more expensive. That could possibly be true if you cherry pick your items and your start dates, but I gotta say, across the board, climbing gear is a better deal now than in the past. Probably a combination of Internet retailing and a growing participation base leading to economies of scale.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2018 - 02:23pm PT
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According to the inflation calculator $150 pair of shoes should be around $285 in todays money!!! It seems like ropes have cost about the same in the last 18 years that I've been climbing as well. . . harnesses seem to be creeping up much more than in the past ($100 plus harnesses are really common) but overall I believe you are correct, climbing is getting overall less expensive. . . even cheaper for those that only boulder/sport climb!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Feb 21, 2018 - 03:12pm PT
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Still too rich for my blood. I would not buy them for half off. Just went back to using a pair of purple mythos I had resoled about a decade ago and never used after resoling. BTW the purple ones have much better leather than the new orange ones. I have bought two new pairs and have ripped out lace eyelets on both.
How come are salaries haven't gone up like you say the price of shoes should?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 21, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
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Still too rich for my blood. I would not buy them for half off. Just went back to using a pair of purple mythos I had resoled about a decade ago and never used after resoling. BTW the purple ones have much better leather than the new orange ones. I have bought two new pairs and have ripped out lace eyelets on both.
How come are salaries haven't gone up like you say the price of shoes should?
How much did you pay for the Mythos when you bought them? How much do they cost now?
As for salaries--I believe they have gone up, on average, as much as the inflation number provided. The key is "on average." As everyone knows, there have been winners and losers as the economy chugs along. If someone happens to be a "loser" (I mean that strictly in terms of salary, nothing else), it would may be easy to guess there are fewer winners than there really are.
Spend sometime in upscale places (for me, that's Boulder/Denver), and it's quite obvious there's no shortage of "winners" (again, just in economic terms).
By the way, climbing does not seem to me to be an expensive sport at all, especially bouldering and sport climbing, with one caveat: it helps to have a pretty good amount of free time, which you may not have if you're really near the edge of survival.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2018 - 09:55am PT
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Life is getting too expensive. . . thankfully i don't have to buy new climbing shoes more than 1-2 times per year. . . but maybe I should be climbing more???
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 22, 2018 - 10:15am PT
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I mostly climb in TC's,(& Miura's and Mocasyms, and gandas) but do have two pair of purple mythos in the rotation.....
Now, btw, what about stealth/ c4 rubber soon to be unavailable for resoles? Anyone have a plan for that?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Feb 22, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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FML if C4 is gone.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2018 - 10:26am PT
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I must be too heavy for C4, that sh#t rolls on me if it has a nice edge. . .
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 22, 2018 - 11:04am PT
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It's the only, rubber!
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2018 - 01:34pm PT
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I googled Positive Resoles and this came up, is this stealth rubber?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 22, 2018 - 01:53pm PT
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You cheapskates on this thread can take a cue from Dresden climbers who didn’t think fancy footwear was necessary....try some of those climbs with modern shoes and report back.
190 bucks sounds really cheap when compared to the big bucks people pay for ice tools that they think will give them an edge....and then consider skis, golf clubs and guitars and what people will throw down for “perceived” incremental performance enhancements.
First world problems one and all....deal.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
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Jim: Do you pay full retail for climbing gear?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 22, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
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Well, as a matter of fact, no.
I do pay full retail for other things that I use...fishing gear, pack rafts etc.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 22, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
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Here's another way to look at it:
How many climbs (a rough measure, to be sure) do you get from those $190 shoes (including resoles, and the costs associated therewith)?
I assume the cost per "climb" (pitch, whatever) is well under $1.
If you really can't afford that, I feel for you, but in that case you've got much bigger economic problems than the cost of shoes, and you should probably take a break from climbing until you can get those figured out . . .
Otherwise, if you like the shoes, just sack up and buy them and have fun, simple as that.
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Feb 22, 2018 - 04:17pm PT
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^^^^^^^Not everyone's economic scene is the same. I know a kid who climbs so much he goes thru shoes like crazy. Cost is relative to how mush $$$ one has. Easier for some to brush of higher shoe prices. The rest will make due. I've seen my bud blow out the back of his shoe and still send .....in the rain!!!!!!
And just because someone doesn't have a lot of coin doesn't make them a bad person/cheap eh? Keep it real , that's why I like climbing.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2018 - 06:37am PT
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Anyone had a chance to try these out yet? I'm thinking of ordering a pair, but want to know how they fit relative to the TC Pro. . .
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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May 18, 2018 - 08:05am PT
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lol what shoe you wear does not matter. The Climber makes up the difference.
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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May 18, 2018 - 01:41pm PT
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I picked up a pair of these about 2 weeks ago and have about 20 pitches on them so far - I'm very impressed! For me, the less asymmetric last, softer mid sole and more rand wrap on the Maestro address the 3 design elements of the TC pros that I'm not keen on. Out of the box I trusted them fairly well on a wide range of Eldo and BoCan holds, something that wouldn't be the case with a brand new pair of TC Pros. More use and time will tell if they are the ticket, but they are looking good!
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2018 - 05:06pm PT
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Brassnuts: i almost ordered a pair this morning, but read some horrible reviews on mtnproject here which made me change my mind.
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DanaB
climber
CO
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May 18, 2018 - 06:43pm PT
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Shoe reviews are essentially meaningless. One of the posters on MP wrote that the Maestro would only be suitable for people who have very wide feet and need a EEEE width shoe - I wear a AAA and the Maestros fits me fine. That comment may be true for whoever wrote it, but you have to try shoes for yourself.
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skitch
Gym climber
Bend Or
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
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thats the link I put above. . . they do not sound good to me, I don't have a problem with TC Pros except that they don't really fit to great in a 46 (largest size), until I stretch them (on someone from here's advice) then they fit great!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 18, 2018 - 09:44pm PT
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How is the toe profile? IMHO the toe height is far and away the most important feature in a trad shoe. If you can’t get your shoes to sneak into a red camalot crack put them in the trunk of the next car you donate to NPR.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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May 19, 2018 - 12:16am PT
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 19, 2018 - 06:21am PT
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@ Donini- according to the photos on that link above^^^ the toe on the Scarpa is visibly taller/fatter than the TC's.
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Jeff Gorris
climber
Not from Portlandia
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May 22, 2018 - 07:03am PT
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 22, 2018 - 07:34am PT
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The original Techno which was discontinued several years ago was the best crack climbing shoe I have ever used. Their efforts since have come up short. Jay Smith just received a pair of Maestros....his opinion I trust implicitly, I’ll wait for it.
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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May 23, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
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Ok, an update now that I went out and specifically did some crack-centric climbs in Eldo this morning with the Maestros (5.10a routes I am very familiar with). Now I have about 24 pitches of face climbing and 6 pitches of crack climbing on my new Maestros. In short, I think the Maestros performed poorly in any crack smaller than 2" or so. It felt like I was trying to stuff a lunch box into the crack almost everytime I tried to get weight on my feet in a smaller crack. Ugh. My TC's feel pretty good on these same climbs and I'm able to get much more weight on the foot jams and feel more secure.
So, when I got home I decided to do a little test with my ~30 pitch Maestros size 42 and a pretty new pair of TC Pros, size 41. I put each shoe on my right foot, laced them up and then took height measurements at 3 different spots as measured from the tip of the shoe. Note the sole thickness for both shoes is virtually the same and I pressed the shoe flat to the surface. Here are the results at .75", 1.25" and 2" from the tip of the shoe:
Maestro: 1.75", 1.88", 2.06"
TC Pro: 1.56", 1.75", 2.13"
As you can see by the measurements, The TC Pro is thinner at the tip but ends up being slightly thicker by the 2" distance, more of a tapered wedge compared to the blockier Maestro.
I've attached some pics below where you can also see the TC Pro tapers down considerably to the outside edge from the high point where the Maestro is pretty bulky all the way across.
In summary, I'll keep climbing in the Maestros and see if they start working better in cracks with more break in, but I'm not optimistic. FYI, I have a medium volume foot, pretty average Brannock device 9.5C. If people find this useful, I'll post up another update after more use. Off the cuff, I think Scarpa has missed the boat calling this a high performance trad shoe as crack performance is poor so far. On the plus side, face climbing does feel pretty good to me on a variety of holds and the shoe fits comfortably. Disclaimer; YMMV ;-)
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Climbing related bump...
any further comparison RE: maestro vs Techno?
I'm just wondering if I should grab a pair of correct sized Techno Xs that I found for $78 before they're completely gone. They fit me well and work well for the majority of my climbing.
I never know if something newer will be better though...
edit
Wow, read a few more reviews - those toes are way too bulky for me. I'm definitely picking up a backup pair of Techno Xs for 1/2 off. I already own two pair (one fresh-ish and the other resoled and worn in) and as Donini lamented to earlier, I wish I had done the same with the original Techno as those were better for thin crack and fit me very well. This time I'm stocking up (I'm a sucker for deals too, $80 is high priced for shoes for me).
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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I tried them on, but didnt get to climb in them. Id totally try a pair, they felt very comparable to the tc in fit and application. Theyre always on sale too, making them cheaper than the tc which isnt on sale much at all. Thought the uppers were softer and more comfortable out of the box but still protective. Thick leather. Scarpas craftsmanship is the best.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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My trouble with scarpas, and the techno x which I didnt like, was that they make lots of great shoes that dont always fit me. This one did, quite well. Also, Im on my fourth pair of vapors, absolutely great shoe.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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I have had several pairs of TC Pros and just bought another new pair. Also, I've been climbing in Maestro's the last couple of months and have liked them quite a bit from the get go. I do have squared off toes on my feet. And, I've always said the most important thing about shoes is to find some that fit the best. Then get some good rubber on them. The Maestros probably are a bit more clunky, but the toe box is a better fit for my squared off toes. Time will tell.. but I wouldn't say they were holding me back. hehe
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OlympicMtnBoy
climber
Seattle
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“The original Techno which was discontinued several years ago was the best crack climbing shoe I have ever used. ”
Thumbs up to that Jim! I have two pairs I’ve been rotating but I’ll need something new soon. Why on earth do they keep making these so called “trad” shoes with big fat clown toes? The original techno had a great slim profile for cracks and was reasonably stiff. If there were a high top version it’d be killer. Is there anything else out there with those qualities? I was hopeful for the Maestro as my feet fit Scarpa better than Sportiva as well, doesn’t sound like it though.
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