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ground_up
Trad climber
mt. hood /baja
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Feb 16, 2018 - 11:20am PT
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Agree with the injections , did nothing for me. I was playing
tennis twice a week , a bit of golf. Gave em' both up , climbing
was more important. The pain has been gone since , nada.
I am not an expert but you have got to monitor the stress on
it and give it the due rest and pt. I really feel climbing
re-hab'd it.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Feb 16, 2018 - 11:25am PT
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In my personal experience it's a good idea to build the antagonistic muscles. There are some tools available for doing this, or just doing push-ups, dips, etc. can also work.
Curt
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2018 - 12:47pm PT
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Curt: You are exactly right. That is where the eccentric training comes in.
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Nuglet
Trad climber
Orange Murica!
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Feb 16, 2018 - 01:13pm PT
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yes;
dolphin pose push ups
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Feb 16, 2018 - 02:28pm PT
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Many things may work but in my case 35 years of crimping had done a lot of damage.
Did all that stuff, and ended up having surgery on both - epicondylites shaved, old damage debraded and all sown up.
Best thing ever! Great result. So if it gets to that stage, and you are out of options, in my experience the surgery works...
Steve
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Feb 16, 2018 - 03:16pm PT
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I've never really had trouble getting over pain on the inside of the elbow, there are some reasonable exercises that always work for me. Pain on the outside is a whole other matter and I have never found a way to properly heal this damage. Taking time off from climbing certainly helps but the minute you start to really pull hard again it comes right back. After 45 years of elbow pain I have just learned to live with it and mitigate the pain in the most reasonable way.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Feb 16, 2018 - 03:27pm PT
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I found this thing to be incredibly useful in getting rid of outside elbow pain.
Curt
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Feb 16, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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I'll say it again: Acupuncture
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Feb 17, 2018 - 12:21pm PT
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I had problems with this for MANY years. For a long time, I wrapped my forearm with a band of tape to take some of the tension off the connection point, and that seemed to help a little. A broad range of exercises as has been mentioned helped, too. Totally laying off for a short time is sometimes necessary, but you have to keep moving and not let it get too weak. I'm a big fan of the Armaid. I also now do roll-ups with weights on a bar. I roll up and down, both palms up and palms down. Acupuncture and one steroid injection did nothing for me.
When it first hit me in my early twenties, I was pretty bummed, lying in bed with a burning forearm wondering if I'd ever climb again. Best of luck. It can take a while.
BAd
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HandCrack
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal.
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Feb 18, 2018 - 07:01am PT
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Curt - the photos you posted show the "Tyler Twist," used for treating outside (lateral) pain. For the inside (medial) elbow pain, there is the "Reverse Tyler Twist" in which the flexbar is twisted the opposite direction. This has gone a long way in helping me manage my medial epicondylitis problem.
Brandt Allen
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Feb 18, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
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Yeah, I own a flex bar, but it has never worked for me. And I have tried.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 04:57pm PT
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Check the pec and frontal muscles! Check it out!
Peace
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Feb 18, 2018 - 07:20pm PT
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Yes Ron, that is why we do millions of push ups, to counter the number of pull ups we do as climbers. Not to mention the dumbbell workouts.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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Feb 18, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
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There are new treatments that address issues related to medial or lateral tendonopathy of the elbow to anterior or posterior shoulder complex. Related to myofascial trains in the body. I've had success with this treatment protocol as opposed to chasing the pain.
Peace
45 years of elbow pain!!! Try something else
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Feb 18, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
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I have had medial ep in both elbows at one time or another.
The first episode was in 2009 and lasted over a year. During that period I tried acupuncture, massage, the flex bar, ice, Ibuprofen, and even taking two months off of climbing entirely. No improvement. Then I discovered and started the eccentric exercises as detailed by Dr. Julian Saunders in the "Dodgy Elbows" article. It worked- it took about 3 months of continuously doing the exercises but the pain gradually disappeared.
I developed medial ep in the other elbow shortly after, and began the exercises again. This time, the healing process took much less time, probably because I got on it earlier than with the first elbow.
Ever since, anytime I feel any twinge of pain in the medial condyle, I do a few rounds of the exercises, and it always knocks it down.
I use a large, cast iron frying pan for the rotational (supinator) exercise. It's the perfect tool.
Sounds like these exercises haven't worked for everyone, though. It does seem as though early intervention is key, however, to keep it from becoming a chronic issue.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
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At work, working on bodies! When I have time, we can talk. Might good to talk so questions can be asked/answered directly. Either way I won’t blow you off.
Peace
Edit: get me an email address so we can exchange phone numbers
Edit again: notogo, you out there?? Hope yer not trying to reach me via the email thing on Supertopo, doesn't work.
Peace
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Steven Amter
climber
Washington, DC
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Been battling the medial for about 15 years, in both elbows, but rarely at the same time. I have found the following to be useful:
Rotational strengthening exercises. I use an adjustable dumbell with weights on only one side.
Reverse roll ups on a 1.5 inch wooden dowel. I have gradually increased the weight and the # of reps.
Cross fiber massage (for trigger points) of the forearms, and stretching.
The Armaid device is great for the massaging part.
Long warm-ups, especially at the climbing gym.
Limiting both the amount and intensity of bouldering, hangboarding, and pull-ups. Also, it is better to train on slightly larger holds, even with added weight, than really crimpy stuff.
I have not had much success with bands, flex bars, drugs, ice, or pure rest.
Since I started doing the useful stuff, my elbows have been mostly good for about five years now. I find whenever I get too optimistic about upping my training in the hope of getting back to past levels of performance, the elbows start to complain. Apparently a symptom of age... Nowadays, I try to back off sooner when I feel the familiar elbow twinges.
One trick I occasionally do is to push the training a bit just before a week or two of forced layoff - like a business trip or a beach vacation - and then combine rest and massage. This way I get to have my cake and eat it too.
The articles listed above by an earlier poster, particularly those in Rock and Ice by Dr. Julian Sauders are excellent.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 19, 2018 - 01:20am PT
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I have started feeling persistent pain on the inside of my elbow and it seems to be golfers elbow. I have been doing gym bouldering 5 days a week with increasing intensity. I have been doing some pull ups, on a bar and on my tips on a board. I took a week off to travel and upon return the pain was worse. Interested in some exercise to counter this before it affects my climbing. Are the rotational exercises the way to go?
Edit: found this video that describes eccentric exercises that might help
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Mar 19, 2018 - 07:11am PT
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Had terrible medial epiconylitis for many years. It would feel like the muscle was going to rip off the bone doing even one chin up.
Tried all the stuff post so far and...meh.
Started doing finger and thumb extensor exercises by putting heavy duty rubber bands around my fingers and thumb and then extending my fingers and thumb against the resistance of the band(s).
A month later...gone. Has never returned. At first you will probably be very surprised how weak your finger extensor are, but keep at it. The bands on broccoli stalks usually works well. If you want something fancier for progressive resistance Iron Mind has Expand-your-hand bands. Iron Mind also has a bunch of other highly useful hand and forearm rehab tools.
Have recommended the same rehab for a bunch patients over the years and it’s always worked like a charm. Now in Ashland, Oregon, but for nearly 30 years lived in the land of golfer’s elbow - Scottsdale, Arizona.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 19, 2018 - 09:47am PT
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Thanks Mark, exactly what I was looking for. hopefully I can nip this in the bud. Gotta love this crowd sourcing for keeping the body tuned up, another thread on here fixed my knee issues in a few weeks.
Not a fan of broccoli but my son was here for a week and I cook it for him and had two of those bands sitting on the kitchen counter
Is golf legal in Ashland :)
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Steven Amter
climber
Washington, DC
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Mar 21, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
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Metolius sells a finger extensor device called the Grip Saver Plus that works well:
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 21, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
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Curcumin!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Mar 26, 2018 - 07:33am PT
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Informative thread- I've never had elbow issues until about 6 weeks ago- whammo in both elbows. It's painful enough that it disrupts my sleep. I think it started more from stained glass work than climbing. I've been on the regular exercises and some massage therapy and supplements daily for a couple weeks with minimal improvement. The new job I'm saddled with for the summer is a lot of repetitive motion so unfortunately, there's no rest days for my arms in the immediate future.
I think I'm cursed with some bad genetics too. Connective tissue stuff seems to be chronic and hard to heal with me.
Guess I just have to keep on the therapy and learn to deal .
By the time one area heals...
another is in pain...
FUK!!!...
Welcome to my world^
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 26, 2018 - 09:03am PT
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Jim’s wife here. Try KT tape. They have informative videos of how to apply it. After almost a year of not climbing I used the tape for 7 weeks and my tennis elbow was fixed with no recurrences.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Mar 26, 2018 - 09:24am PT
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Check out the hand and forearm rehab tools and programs at ironmind.com.
Jon, Pot and golf are legal in Ashland. Come on up and I'll be your dumb caddy. Dumb cuz I don't play golf. Well maybe not the only reason I'm dumb. Talk to my wife - she'll give you the list.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 26, 2018 - 11:21am PT
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I find the exercises work wonders. Laying off seemed to aggravate the elbow. I have been doing the wrist rotational exercise with a small weight on one end of a dumbbell bar. Also doing the finger exercises Mark suggested with a rubber band. Discovered that my right are was dominate, I figure I favor it when I do pull ups.
Also been doing some eccentric exercises. Seems like it does not take much to make a big difference. I do no more than 5 minutes of therapeutic exercises during breaks between bouldering (in a gym)
I also quit doing pull-ups on the hang board, I just hang now.
Found a grip strength meter at the gym, will be monitoring my grip strength to see the effects of the exercises. the grip strength meter was so cool that I decided to buy one. The name brand model is 200 bucks, but I found a Chinese knock-off for 16 dollars, delivered. Hope it gets here before the tariffs kick in.
Mark - Ashland is a great town, helped a friend move up their. Seems like the anti-golf community. I don't golf, pretty sure there are not many golfers that climb. Thanks for the exercise tips.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Mar 26, 2018 - 06:33pm PT
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after years and years, my savior: jaspal ricky singh, md. apparently it's called PT. boom!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Mar 27, 2018 - 02:50am PT
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No to ice? WTF? Yeah, jury is still out on ice, and vaccines cause autism, too.
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| Messages 1 - 31 of total 31 in this topic |
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