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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 13, 2017 - 02:43pm PT
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The future is NOW, and this aspect of it looks bleak and Orwellian.
SAN FRANCISCO STREET ROBOTS TARGET HOMELESS PEOPLE
GENTRIFICATION POLICE USE A.I. DROIDS TO EXPEL VAGRANTS
San Francisco security robots are patrolling areas that attract homeless people, and harassing those who stop, looking for a place to spend the night. Ostensibly, the robots are supposed to detect criminal activity, and then alert human security guards. But, due to (intentional?) programming flaws, the robots are targeting people who exhibit "unusual behavior". Loitering in the area triggers artificial intelligence algorithms that alert the authorities.
Ironically, the expensive robots belong to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA), which uses them to patrol outside its facility in the gentrifying Mission District, which is an area frequented by homeless people. The SPCA is an animal advocacy and pet adoption group whose primary concern is the physical welfare of animals. It is doubly ironic that this use of robots by the SPCA against society's most vulnerable is occurring in San Francisco, which has traditionally been a haven for the marginalized, oppressed and less fortunate, and which, in a former life, hosted the Summer of Love.
It is a sad and poignant commentary on the cruel state of our modern society that an animal welfare agency is using a robotic police force to harass and torment homeless people who are being displaced from their last refuge in the city by the invasion of sanctimonious and elitist groups, such as the animal welfare agency.
Apparently, there is no Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to People (SPCP) to counter what the SPCA is doing to the homeless in the Mission District (political aversion to anything with 'PCP' in its name may be to blame, here).
The SPCA says its security robots have led to a significant decline in crime, and the elimination of homeless camps and tent cities. The SPCA says that the robots have increased the safety of the dogs, cats and parakeets that the group houses within its Mission District facility. The success of the SPCA robots in clearing the streets of rancid human filth will, no doubt, be adopted by other people who have discovered - too late - that the only downside to occupying inexpensive real estate in downtrodden areas is the downtrodden people who already live there.
It is only a matter of time before a new generation of advanced security robots is put to work cleaning up the city. An advanced security robot's interaction with a homeless person might one day show up on YouTube, sounding like this:
"My sensors detect a foul odor of halitosis, human grease, urine and feces. You have been identified as an undesirable human being. You are not allowed to be in this area. This area is reserved for desirable human beings. You are ordered to leave the area immediately. Leave the area immediately. If you do not leave the area immediately, I have been programmed to compel you to leave the area immediately. Leave the area immediately. Leave the area immediately. If you do not leave the area immediately, I have been programmed to use high voltage to compel you to leave the area immediately. Leave the area immediately. Leave the area immediately. Leave the area immediately. This will be your last warning before I will compel you to leave the area immediately. One. Two. Three. OK. You have asked for it. I will now compel you to leave the area immediately - - - - - - - " ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAP
ORIGINAL NEWSPAPER ARTICLE ONLINE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Dec 13, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
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Didn't know dogs, cats and parakeets needed protecting with such expensive measures.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Dec 13, 2017 - 03:29pm PT
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If only the major religion in this country preached about helping the poor and disadvantaged. Oh wait...
At least we don't have the powers in charge trying to slash benefits to the poor and disadvantaged. Oh wait...
I could go on...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2017 - 03:55pm PT
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"Within the first week of the robot's deployment, some people who were setting up a homeless encampment nearby allegedly "put a tarp over it, knocked it over, and put barbecue sauce on all the sensors," according to Jennifer Scarlett, president of the SF SPCA. A Twitter user reported seeing feces smeared on the robot."
This type of response to the security robot was predictable. If the robot is displacing people from their habitat, they are going to fight back. In this instance, the robocop was disabled by smearing barbecue sauce and human feces over its sensors. It can be easily imagined that an unarmed human security guard could be incapacitated in a similar fashion, which is why security guards typically carry some sort of weapon, if only a heavy aluminum Mag-Lite flashlight to use as a bludgeon.
And, that is exactly why future generations of security and police robots will be equipped to defend themselves against those who oppose and resist them.
Robocops will evolve in the future to maintain the upper hand in the power struggle, in much the same way that regular police forces have evolved from this:
To this:
EDIT EDIT EDIT
No, the powers in charge in SF appear to be trying to harass and throw out the homeless.
Jody, read Yanqui's link above. It was the SPCA who autonomously obtained the robot, and loosed it upon the hapless street people. The city ordered it off the street, and is prepared to fine the SPCA $1000 per day because they did not have a permit to harass and expel city residents.
Still, that a private organization can wield a robotic police force against citizens is a frightening prospect. What if that thing was issued a firearm, and was sent out to patrol a gated community, with no law, except unto itself?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 13, 2017 - 04:06pm PT
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Liberal, Democratic-controlled urban blue tarp hepatitis cesspools. Here in Seattle they even get a place to inject heroin and are free to deal meth out of their derelict RVs in front of homes. The solution? Raise property taxes of middle class homeowners of course so the city can hire $120k plus benefits staff to provide NO help anyway. You reap what you sow. Welcome to the Democratic Party.
Get the kids and moms the help they need. The rest get one chance at rehab—and then no more help. (The dealers and cookers get a bullet to the head.)
Not familiar with these robots. Should be destroyed.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2017 - 04:13pm PT
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Jody, I gate-crashed your cousin's wedding party.
I was promptly expelled for being an undesirable person.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Dec 13, 2017 - 04:57pm PT
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Thanks for the update, yanqui!
Was planning to bike over to the SPCA after work and take a selfie together with the robot to post here on the Taco. But it sounds like its back home in Mountain View already...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 13, 2017 - 05:08pm PT
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St00pid brainwashed Americans and their st00pid progression to st00pid sterile programmed robots.
These st00pid idiot morons have no soul and are dead in their heads .....
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 13, 2017 - 05:10pm PT
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If that thing lingers long enough there in Tweakerville, it'll either end up disassembled into a million pieces or be smoking meth itself.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Dec 13, 2017 - 05:23pm PT
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This spells the end for Dunkin’ Donuts and Krispy Kreme.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 13, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
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Now picture this thing with GPS, face recognition software, a warrant, and a rifle. You WILL be a good citizen. Welcome to the future no one wants.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Dec 13, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
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If that thing lingers long enough there in Tweakerville, it'll either end up disassembled into a million pieces or be smoking meth itself.
I can't imagine what the SPCA was thinking. That thing would not last long in the Mission.... A LOT of activists will be out to target and decommission a machine like that.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Dec 13, 2017 - 05:59pm PT
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Now picture this thing with GPS, face recognition software, a warrant, and a rifle. You WILL be a good citizen. Welcome to the future no one wants.
If guns don’t kill people, but instead it’s people that kill people, can robots actually kill people?
But then if corporations are people, why can’t robots be people too?
But if robots are people, that can kill people, shouldn’t they have the same rights to keep and bear arms as other people?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 13, 2017 - 06:08pm PT
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Focus, Lennox. And get that prescription adjusted. Again.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 13, 2017 - 06:34pm PT
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What if that thing was issued a firearm, and was sent out to patrol a gated community, with no law, except unto itself?
No problem, the First Law of Robotics has that covered.
Right?
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sween345
climber
back east
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Dec 13, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
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At three MPH could be a little more challenging to tip than a sleeping cow.
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Dec 13, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
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Focus, Lennox. And get that prescription adjusted. Again.
Hey, I’m just saying the NRA should get on this.
This has the potential to be a huge new market for their patrons, the gun manufacturers.
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Dec 13, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
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SF is changing fast and not in a good way for many of it's long-time residents. Housing has become so expensive it's no wonder the homeless problem has gotten so bad. It's bled out much of it's cool weirdness sadly.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Dec 13, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
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"as it was operating in the public realm without a permit, and threatened with a $1,000-a-day (£745) fine."
that's the real reason it was pulled from the street-in addition to the horrible optics.
Jody, i'll take your bait-and Robert L thank you for pointing out his false equivalences-here in SF we treat unauthorized immigrants and homeless people with the same amount of respect-we are not trying to get rid of the homeless but get them the f*#k off the street-it's heartless to think that living their is the best option. We spend a lot of money for some, albeit some little, success getting people off the streets and into supportive housing. We also like being a sanctuary city-our city was built on the blood sweat and labor of all kinds of immigrants... if you never come here and stay in your little OC bubble we'll both be happier.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2017 - 08:43pm PT
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This business with the robotic cops is going to get funnier and funnier . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and then, suddenly, it's not going to be funny anymore.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 13, 2017 - 10:18pm PT
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Robocops that are supposed to be protecting pets & are now used to work street people in San Francisco?
Schist!
That's something else that I won't lose sleep over tonight, since Judge Roy Moore lost to a Democrat last night.
Seriously.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Dec 13, 2017 - 10:38pm PT
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Jim B,
You said " was used against them "
where was the report of the Knight bots having electrocution abilities in the SPCA story?
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 13, 2017 - 11:22pm PT
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Jody, i'll take your bait-and Robert L thank you for pointing out his false equivalences-here in SF we treat unauthorized immigrants and homeless people with the same amount of respect-we are not trying to get rid of the homeless but get them the f*#k off the street-it's heartless to think that living their is the best option. We spend a lot of money for some, albeit some little, success getting people off the streets and into supportive housing. We also like being a sanctuary city-our city was built on the blood sweat and labor of all kinds of immigrants... if you never come here and stay in your little OC bubble we'll both be happier.
David,
Sorry to burst your self-congratulatory libtard bubble, but many California cities (including SF?) are mitigating their homelessness problems by providing their charges one-way bus tickets to cities like Seattle. Well done.
BTW, it would be nice if you cared as much about citizens like Kate Steinle as you do illegals.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 14, 2017 - 05:33am PT
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BTW, it would be nice if you cared as much about citizens like Kate Steinle as you do illegals.
You're really something, aren't you?
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Dec 14, 2017 - 06:44am PT
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It's a miracle these robots can roam the steeets for five minutes without. Becoming a barbecue or fountain ornament. It's kinda insane . What the hell???
... but thank god the pets are protected.!
I spend one month a year living in the Mission. Hate the f*#king place. I don't know what's worse- the filthy streets and the pile of homeless you have to step over exiting the million dollar house every morning or the self rightious rich people passing every law conceivable to remove them from their sight. The dot-commer's evidently have a lot of time to think about how to improve the views while circling for an hour looking for parking. They have the option to move. ... the homeless generally do not.
(As a side note: the friend I stay with is prop 13'd in and could never afford to move. )
Not sure how this became an immigration discussion. I'm guessing a huge percentage of homeless are US citizens . From what I've observed personally- a large number are mentally compromised. I get stalked by scitzophrenics with some regularity. Thank you Ronald Regan.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 14, 2017 - 07:11am PT
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DIDN'T ANY OF YOU PEOPLE READ DUNE????
Thou shalt not make a machine in the image of a human mind. The Buttlarian jihad is almost upon us.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2017 - 07:46am PT
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I've been telling people for over year that it will be every good citizen's duty to smash, burn, destroy or otherwise permanently disable any self-driving car that appears on a public road. Those robotic abominations can't be trusted to not hurt people. The corporations developing them are far outrunning their ability to keep ahead of the myriad problems they would pose to the public. Malicious hackers regularly break into the most secure computer systems in the country, but the Robo-Car companies want to hook these multi-ton automatons all together via the internet, and then turn them loose at 100 mph on the nation's freeways.
Greed and ego are fueling the race to recklessly unleash immature and dangerous technologies that have a great potential for mass human calamity. Robotic cops are just the tip of a looming technological iceberg that the USA Titanic is steaming towards.
But, there was one man who taught us to fight, to storm the wire of the camps, to smash those metal motherf*#kers into junk. He turned it around. He brought us back from the brink. His name was Conner. Tom Conner. Your son, Sarah. Your unborn son.
EDIT
Yeah, I thought Dune was very over-rated, with low payoff for such a long and difficult read. Even David Lynch couldn't make it work.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 14, 2017 - 07:57am PT
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DIDN'T ANY OF YOU PEOPLE READ DUNE????
I tried but just couldn't get into it.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 14, 2017 - 08:11am PT
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Forget about safety, there are issues with liberty. I’ll never sit in an autonomous vehicle. Unless it’s taking me to my funeral.
Here in the people’s republic of Wa, they want to implement “pay by mile” highway taxes and are testing on board GPS units as a way to accomplish this. It will tell government how many miles you dive—and, oh yea, where you drive, when you drive, how fast you drive, whether your driving habits are “socially responsible” and excessive. Variable per-mile fees for peak, rush hours, downtown, etc. I’m telling you, folks aren’t gonna stand for this sh#t. (Except millennials. They’ll pretty much do anything govt says.)
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 14, 2017 - 08:41am PT
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You're really something, aren't you?
Right back at you, pal. That poor girl was murdered by an illegal alien while she was out enjoying a day with her family--because you and your fellow SF Democrats care more about your ideology than your citizens.
Come to think of it, liberals are a lot like robots.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2017 - 08:55am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^
So are Republicans. They all fell into lockstep with the lie that there was a long tradition of a President not nominating a Supreme Court justice in the last year of his term in office (which never happened in the previous 152 years), and they fell all over each other in supporting Roy Moore in his Senate campaign.
Most people are "robots" to a certain degree.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 14, 2017 - 09:32am PT
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That poor girl was murdered by an illegal alien...
The jury that heard the evidence disagrees with you.
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Dec 14, 2017 - 09:38am PT
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Is Lituya someone's fake account?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 14, 2017 - 10:05am PT
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The jury that heard the evidence disagrees with you.
A jury found OJ innocent too.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Dec 14, 2017 - 10:10am PT
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Sorry to burst your self-congratulatory libtard bubble, but many California cities (including SF?) are mitigating their homelessness problems by providing their charges one-way bus tickets to cities like Seattle. Well done.
BTW, it would be nice if you cared as much about citizens like Kate Steinle as you do illegals.
Hey Lituya, at least here in SF that's not true. You got any evidence of it elsewhere? And who says i don't care about Ms Steinle-no one should die as the result of an unsecured firearm.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Dec 14, 2017 - 11:28am PT
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Come to think of it, liberals are a lot like robots.
Well now, that might be true but there's a lot of stupid piled into BOTH shallow ends of the pool.
My favorite 1984esque devices are these Amazon/Google/NSA listening pods idiots install all over their houses. And they PAY for them!
Back to my bunker....
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Dec 14, 2017 - 11:37am PT
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Hate the f*#king place. I don't know what's worse- the filthy streets and the pile of homeless you have to step over...... Yep. My wife and I did a long weekend in SF last year; I hadn't been down there for a long time and she never had; had good memories & some friends there. We got off the BART downtown and walked to our hotel and were disgusted with the filth and stunned by the homeless hordes. She felt threatened; I vowed never to go back.
Someone made a comment about Seattle's homeless problem; you can see the camps from the freeways. I left Seattle in 2005 after living most of my life there; there are now just too many people. I hate even driving over to use the airport the traffic is so bad. Used to be a great city BITD. Now? Sucks.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 14, 2017 - 11:57am PT
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^^^^^ Yup to all of it. I go to Oakland regularly to visit my aunt but
never go to SF. Spent 16 years in Seattle and go to visit the rels and
friends a lot but hate going into Seattle. But it beats SF by a mile.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 14, 2017 - 12:23pm PT
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Well now, that might be true but there's a lot of stupid piled into BOTH shallow ends of the pool.
My favorite 1984esque devices are these Amazon/Google/NSA listening pods idiots install all over their houses. And they PAY for them!
Back to my bunker....
Finally, something we agree on. Won't have one of those in my house--and thinking about killing my smart phone too and going back to my much beloved Motorola Tundra flip phone. (I would really miss my Strava app though.)
Edit: Ditto those RFID windshield toll stickers. Here in WA they're called "GoodToGo!" passes.
Edit: Ditto those Lowrance/Spot gadgets that let everyone track your mountain "progress" from their chairs.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 14, 2017 - 12:35pm PT
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A jury found OJ innocent too.
And rightfully so. After Fuhrman's testimony was impeached they had no choice.
I was forced against my will to listen to way too much of that fiasco on KNX.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 14, 2017 - 12:43pm PT
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Ironically its called Homeward Bound. So if SF is "repatriating" Seattle homeless who have become stranded in San Francisco and they elect to 'go home' willingly, is that not, I dunno, appropriate for Seattle? Should't Seattle deal with her own homeless problem?
Almost none of them ever lived in Seattle. When asked, they simply said "Seattle" because we were the one of the first states in the union to legalize marijuana. Also, a very permissive policy re heroin and meth.
If you haven't seen Seattle in the past two years, you have no idea the degree to which the problem has grown.
FWIW, I stopped in Juneau last summer--first time in 20 years. Another sad story re drugs and homelessness and liberal metro governance. Used to be a beautiful city.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Dec 14, 2017 - 01:29pm PT
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SF expanding program that has bused 10K homeless residents out of town in past decade Dude, you guys just "disrupted" the heck out of taxis and hotels. It seems like you should be able to write a program to find the cheapest AirBnBs in the country, then pay homeless people with drivers' licenses to Uber pool the others to said accommodations.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2017 - 02:01pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^
Not just taxis and hotels.
The AirBnB thing has also decimated the rental housing environment in SF, and the Bay Area in general. Landlords are evicting tenants wholesale, so that they can run their rental units as full-time AirBnBs. Some of these SF landlords have evicted tenants protected by rent control, by pretending that they, the landlords, are going to be personally living in their now-vacant apartments. These full-time pseudo-hotels violate zoning laws, but WTF? Uber illegally claimed their employees were "independent contractors", so that they could shift some of the corporation's tax burden to the employees (a faux-clever form of wage theft). Illegally evicting tenants, violating zoning laws, not reporting income (because that would red-flag the illegal operation) and converting scarce rental housing to hotels is all a part of being disruptive.
AirBnB has directly contributed to the Bay Area's housing/homeless crisis. They have disrupted the lives of hundreds, if not thousands of people, by taking away their housing in an environment that has gentrified dramatically, and is no longer affordable to many.
It's the Magic Hand of the Law of the Jungle at work.
Deregulation = Lawlessness = Law of the Jungle = Economic Anarchy
The SPCA Robo-Police were put to work to enforce that anarchy, not to protect the public. But, that is what a private police force is supposed to do: exclusively protect whomever is paying them. A private security force near Stinson Beach regularly attempts to expel citizens from the public beach, which is in the interest of the homeowners, but violates the civil rights of the citizens. In the same way, the SPCA Robo-Cop attempted to further the interest of the SPCA (rid the streets of homeless people), but in the process violated the civil rights of the homeless people.
EDIT
Money is the only valid measure of a man - Donald Doosh
By that logic, anyone without money is not a person. And, a fat cat is more of a person than someone with less money. And, thus, that fat cat, being a superior person, is entitled to superior treatment, with, say, a new tax code that favors the wealthy over the poor.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Dec 14, 2017 - 02:03pm PT
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I mean are any of them "people" if they don't have money?
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Dec 14, 2017 - 02:22pm PT
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Uber illegally claimed their employees were "independent contractors", so that they could shift some of the corporation's tax burden to the employee (a form of wage theft, no?). It's worse than that. Their business model is to take advantage of people's underestimates of the cost of operating a car ($0.535/mi this year, according to the IRS, not the $0.10/mi for gas) to pay humans almost nothing until they can be replaced by robots. Even that is not enough in the short term, so they're setting fire to billions of VC money per year to drive competitors out of business.
At first glance, I think it would be great to live in San Francisco or Boulder. Then I think a bit more, and remember that they are both costly NIMBY dystopias. Sure, they would be okay if I made mid-six-figures and could throw money at most problems to make them go away, but that ain't happening.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2017 - 02:31pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Amazon Prime Now delivery service did the same thing to its drivers. Using the IRS's rate for the cost of operating a vehicle, Amazon's human drones were delivering packages for the equivalent of about $2 per hour. Jeff Bezos, a world-class sociopath, gleefully shifted corporate taxes and expenses onto unsuspecting, and/or desperate workers.
There is a class-action lawsuit against Amazon, right now. The drivers had to conform to a dress, behavior and work schedule code that was indistinguishable from that required of an employee, as defined by the IRS.
It's much easier to amass the world's greatest fortune when you break the law, exploit and abuse other people, work your office staff to death, and generally behave in an manner that is indistinguishable from how a sociopath, or psychopath, behaves.
EDIT FOR DINGUS ^^^^^^^^^^^
Part of the impetus for taxi regulations was to ensure that criminals and rapists didn't drive around, looking for victims.
Uber, Lyft and other fake taxi services have had their share of the recent headlines about drivers attacking, raping, or otherwise committing crimes against their fares. A stolen car in the Bay Area was recently recovered four months after its theft, with 12,000 more miles on the odometer, and UBER stickers on the front and rear.
GO, KALANICK! GO, KALANICK! GO, KALANICK! GO, KALANICK!
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Dec 14, 2017 - 02:43pm PT
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I despise TNCs (transportation network companies) - Uber and Lyft for the increased traffic congestion they've created. "Ride sharing" sounds like a good idea and something like car pooling, but the result is lots of amateur drivers cruising around all day long and blocking the streets, especially during peak traffic hours. People use public transportation less, and call Uber or Lyft so they don't need to worry about parking. I live in SF and the street in front of my apartment building now has a long line of traffic morning, evenings and weekends, whereas a few years ago there were not many cars. Traffic lights are being installed where there used to be just stop signs.
Any city that does not yet have TNCs should send their city council members to ride around San Francisco for a week on bicycle to witness the traffic chaos we have. I mention bicycles as otherwise they'd simply be stuck in the gridlock never getting to see exactly who is creating the havoc - usually some Lyft or Uber driver stopped blocking a lane, or a long line of them with a single passenger in the backseat.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2017 - 02:53pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ TAMI ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Part of Vancouver's housing problem, in the form of rapidly rising prices, is the influx of foreigners, specifically the wealthy children of (corrupt?) Chinese officials and business moguls. The immigration laws in Canada are favorable for those seeking to get their children, and their money, out of China. Real estate there, as in New York and Los Angeles, is a favored vehicle for laundering dirty money. People, like Trump, will take a suitcase full of cash in exchange for the title of a luxury condominium. Later, the condo can be sold legitimately for clean money. Using an offshore LLC as the buyer keeps everything in the dark.
How many more Ferraris and Lamborghinis do you see on the streets these days? There was an article in the New York Times recently about the situation in Vancouver.
As the petri dish fills to capacity, and the noose tightens, the conditions necessary for the reappearance of an Anti-Christ become more and more saturated.
 Sordidians 6:66
EDIT - My bad. My familiarity with the Even Newer Testament is not what it should be. I confused that salient passage as being in the Book of Dementhians, when, in fact, it actually appears in the Book of Sordidians. I changed my posting to correct the error.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 14, 2017 - 03:28pm PT
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...exploit and abuse other people, work your office staff to death, and generally behave in an manner that is indistinguishable from how a sociopath, or psychopath, behaves.
Welcome to capitalism.
As for Uber and Lyft, LAX is now a hellhole thanks to them. You thought it was congested before?
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Dec 14, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
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The SPCA Robo-Police were put to work to enforce that anarchy
I’m not an anarchist. I don’t think it can work as a system for a very large society, and it is incompatible with capitalism. I prefer a democratic republic with strong socialist influences and tightly regulated capitalism.
But my pet peeve is the common misuse of the term anarchy, when a better term might be chaos, barbarism or despotism.
Anarchy is not chaos or lawlessness. Hunter-gatherers live(d) in anarchy—free, cooperative, non-hierarchical, egalitarian groups organized around agreed upon rules and beliefs without force.
“Anarchy is law and freedom without force.
Despotism is law and force without freedom.
Barbarism force without freedom and law.
Republicanism is force with freedom and law.”
Immanuel Kant,
Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2017 - 03:59pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^
I like the Kant quote. I copied and pasted into my store of written wisdom.
I misused the word "anarchy" above. I mistook it to mean lawlessness. It means "social structure without heirarchy". I am only partially literate, apparently. Mi dispiace. Lo siento.
TAMI - I had to go back to work for a bit, but came back to read the rest of your rant.
Thoughts:
Isla Vista, AKA UC Santa Barbara, has solved the problem of bicycles taking up precious indoor space in the limited and expensive student housing. There are piles of common-use bicycles deposited around the neighborhood. You grab one, run to the store to restock the Speed Quarters Open tournament, and then throw the bike back onto the pile. Typically, freshmen will arrive with a bike given to them as a present by parents, and then contribute it to the pile. Apparently, the mechanically-inclined within the population altruistically contribute to the pile by fixing flat tires and loose drive chains.
Densification pressure has always been an issue in favored locales. For just one example, in Aspen, Colorado, Hunter S. Thompson ran for Sheriff of Pitkin County in 1970 as an obnoxious distraction so that his friend (name?) could effectively run for supervisor, and be a voice against the "greedheads" who wanted the development to occur as fast as possible. One of the California Coastal Commission's primary roles in society is to perform the same function, and put the brakes on converting the highly desirable coastline into wall-to-wall housing and strip malls.
Purdue Pharma, a family-owned private corporation, engaged in a sales-rep-from-hell marketing campaign of encouraging doctors to begin prescribing oxycotin (a drug patented by Purdue) for mild to moderate pain. The North American opioid crisis can be 100% correlated with the sales history of oxycotin. Purdue falsified the FDA tests for oxycotin, which they claimed relieved pain for 12 hours, when it actually only worked for six to eight hours; during the drug trials, test subjects were administered other pain relievers, as part of the fraud. In the real world, patients would experience relief, then agony, then relief, then agony, which cycle was highly conducive to addiction to oxycotin, and subsequent seeking of of substitutes, including heroin, when the prescription ran out.
People in New York City, especially Manhattan, have been living in tiny spaces for a long time. Beds that hinge up against the wall, kitchens that double as living rooms and basement storage for personal property have been common there for decades. I live in a tiny space, and it is surprising just how little space a person really needs. Four people in a two-thousand square foot house is relatively extravagant, all things considered. There was a rental listed in San Francisco that was featured in the SF Chronicle a couple of years ago, that comprised a crawl space under a house, about 100 square feet, about six feet high, with a single light-bulb, that was about $1500 per month. The newspaper article's author indicated that it was not at all clear if the listing was satirical commentary on the local housing situation, or if it was intended as legitimate housing for someone who spent 18 hours per day at their job at a start-up company, and only needed a tiny crash pad.
One of the reasons New York City is considered (by some) to be the Greatest City in the World is the proximity of the lesser boroughs to Manhattan, and the well-developed mass transit system. Bridge and Tunnel People can work in The City (Manhattan) but live in less expensive, but accessible places like Brooklyn, Staten Island, and the Bronx. By contrast, Los Angeles' corresponding situation comprises far-off sprawl adjacent to the notorious freeways, with the 101 being rated the worst in the world, that have rush-hour traffic that moves at a glacial pace (glacial = climbing related, Chris Mac 8-).
I have to get back to the physical world, now, and make parts.
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seano
Mountain climber
none
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Dec 14, 2017 - 06:24pm PT
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Thanks for the on-the-ground report, Tami! I read something about Vancouver's investment-property woes a couple of years ago, and it has always struck me as a place I want to drive through as quickly as possible. I was a bit surprised to find that Squamish and Abbotsford don't seem like horrible bedroom communities yet, but I imagine it's only a matter of time.
I have been lucky enough to stay away from the Bay Area for almost 20 years now, but I remember how insane it was at the tail end of the last dot-com bubble, and shudder to think what it's like now. Seattle is turning into 2000's Bay Area, though, and I can only assume that Vancouver is next as the rot spreads north. If I lived there, I'd consider cashing out and escaping to some city in the BC interior, which seems to have plenty of space.
Funny aside: I drove over that cool new bridge while passing through Vancouver a few years ago, and couldn't figure out how to pay the toll, since there are no cash toll booths. I didn't want to get lost in residential streets finding my way around, so I just ignored it and figured it would get ignored in turn. A year later, I got a polite bill in the mail from the company operating the bridge, sent to a rental address where I had only lived for a few months, asking for less than $10. I thought for a minute about the effort required to read my dirty US plate with their LPR, look it up in some database, and send me an international letter, then laughed and happily paid the money. Vancouver and your border guards may suck, but Canadians are awesome.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 14, 2017 - 07:37pm PT
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Seattle is turning into 2000's Bay Area, though, and I can only assume that Vancouver is next as the rot spreads north.
It's the other way 'round. Vancouver was hit first, and Seattle followed.
I was a bit surprised to find that Squamish and Abbotsford don't seem like horrible bedroom communities yet, but I imagine it's only a matter of time.
They may not be horrible bedroom communities, but have you looked at house prices in Squamish?
The real estate tsunami that hit Vancouver has spread in all directions. It may be foreigners driving up house prices in Vancouver, but you have to think beyond that to grasp the full impact. Suppose you have a house in the greater Vancouver area. Maybe you paid $150K or $200K for it twenty years ago. And now, as you're thinking about retirement, it's worth $1.5 million.
Well, that's great, but what do you do when you sell it? Anything you might want in your home city is just as expensive, so you have to move away. But most people don't want to move very far away, so they buy a place in the surrounding region -- Abbotsford or Squamish in this case.
But follow that path for a few years and you can see the tsunami roll through the nearby towns and cities, then further and further out.
Everything within easy reach of Vancouver, including the Hwy 99 corridor at least as far as Pemberton, all the way out the Fraser Valley, and pretty much the whole east coast of Vancouver Island, has doubled or tripled (or more) in price over the last few years.
Seattle has been at least five years, maybe a bit more, behind Vancouver, but the same thing is happening there now. Same as the Bay Area twenty years ago, and probably as far back as one can go in recorded history. I expect people in Rome 2,000 years ago were probably talking about how what had happened in Athens hundreds of years before was now hitting them.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Dec 14, 2017 - 10:12pm PT
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Dingus sorry for the late reply-in this case i wish stopo had a direct response, threaded comment function-about the homeward bound program-that is a purely voluntary program that reunites homeless people with family members. May only work in the short term but its not just busing the problem away-that's what i assumed Lituya was referring to.
As far as SF sucking or not-all you folks(not you kunlun shan) bitching about how dirty congested full of homeless-whatever, it's my home, i grew up here, it's what made me who i am-and feel damn lucky it happened here not anywhere else. And it's still amazing-today i woke at dawn, took the train to the embacardero in the chilly morning, listened to some music in my headphones while i walked a few blocks along the water to a commercial bakery, picked up still warm sour baguettes, made with a historically old starter, for my catering gigs, walked a good mile in the shady cold to a friend's newly opened cafe on 6th at Jessie, a skanky neighborhood if ever, had amazing coffee and hung out with the guys who built it. Then 30 mins later i was running with my dog on the beach, in view of the golden gate, no one round. Later we heard the coyotes howl a block from my house-there was a puma there last week!
So yeah, it sucks here but i love it. Probably never leave.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Dec 14, 2017 - 10:44pm PT
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David, I love living in SF! Moved here from Vancouver, BC 24 years ago....for just 2 years to go to school, and am still here. As DMT said, both cities have similar problems, though when I visit Vancouver's Downtown Eastside I'm much more horrified than in the Tenderloin or anywhere else in SF. I can afford to live in SF only because of rent control and a lease started in 1994. Vancouver is now unaffordable for me. Two beautiful cities on the ocean - the only places I know which I can comfortably call home. Similar to you, a few days ago I heard and then saw a coyote while late night biking through GG Park to Ocean Beach. So cool they are here in the midst of the City. Life goes on :-)
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2017 - 12:27am PT
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Forget the Robo-Cops - - - - - - - - - here comes Robo-Hooker.
ROBO-SLUT MOLESTED IN AUSTRIA
"BARBARIANS" TOOK THE ROBOTIC SEX SLAVE TO A PLACE TOO FAR
A robotic sex doll named "Samantha" was programmed to respond libidinously to gentle seduction. But, while on display to the public in Austria, overzealous men savagely ravaged the electronic super-model, breaking two of her fingers and "heavily soiling" her face and hair.
Samantha's breasts, buttocks and other body parts were damaged by enthusiastic grabbing, groping, pulling and thrusting. Her creator, Sergi Santos, said that Samantha's A.I. programming was still fully intact, and that she will be ready for more action after some minor cosmetic repair.
The inventor says that the sex doll was designed to endure abuse. “Samantha can endure a lot, she will pull through,” he said, according to the British tabloid.
The Daily Star reports the inventor has sold 15 versions of Samantha at about $4,000 a pop (no pun intended).
ROBOTIC SEX DOLL MOLESTED AT AUSTRIAN ELECTRONICS SHOW
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couchmaster
climber
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Dec 15, 2017 - 07:42am PT
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If you send Samantha out there to roust the street folks Tom, I suspect she'd come back dripping like a freshly glazed donut.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 15, 2017 - 10:13am PT
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My experience in Seattle very much mirrors David Knopp's and Kunlu Shan's in SF. I moved here from Vancouver fifteen years ago to take a job, expecting to head back north in a couple of years. But I fell in love with the place and am still here.
Are there problems? Of course there are. Pretty much any large city has problems. But then, so do most small cities, large towns, and small towns.
Most people can't see past the pictures of the homeless encampments, or the junkies huddled in the alleys, or whatever. But when you think about it a little more deeply, the picture changes. If life in whatever small place you love so much is so great, why don't more young people move there? Why are your neighbors all old? Why? Because there are not enough jobs for people of working age. If you grew up in that wonderful town, and are now a twenty-something, what are your options?
Sure, there are some exceptions, but most small places, however wonderful you find them, have nothing for the young. So they leave, and are replaced by that retired couple that bought the place down the block from you for ten times what it would have sold for a generation ago.
And the population of the big places swells. And the house prices and rents climb. And the tent cities grow.
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be.
And, yeah, I'm leaving Seattle next year to a place we bought in one of those wonderful little towns...
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Dec 15, 2017 - 10:22am PT
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Ghost we probably will too-in 20 yrs, when I'm 75!!
And DMT, yer right it is a poorly run city-that's a real gripe for people staying here-it's like the city leadership (in thrall to the mantra of more jobs more people more money) got all the jobs and people they could handle and never did anything to help with the influx-witness the mind bending traffic, insane home prices, etc. But maybe there can be change-Ed Lee, the erstwhile activist turned tech toady mayor, just died, and who ultimately succeeds him could hopefully maybe affect some change-not that I'm even sure where to start. And one of the problems is a lot of people, myself included, like it as the low rise port town of our past-we don't want to see high rises and super density everywhere-if that's the case then why bother living here, it'll be like manhattan, F*#k that.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 15, 2017 - 10:33am PT
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`What happened to the vaunted tele-commuting? #IgotDSLinPocatelloBraj!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 15, 2017 - 10:40am PT
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You guys may be right about SF being poorly run. I don't really know much about the place or its government. Similar accusations are leveled against the governments in most cities, and there is probably some truth in those accusations.
But what is the solution? Imagine that I could wave a magic wand and make you (Mr. Knopp or Mr. Milktoast) the Emperor of San Francisco. What would you do? And no, you can't say "I'll round up all those homeless creeps and put them on a bus to Seattle" because if you do that, I'll wave the wand again, and you'll find yourself on the Emerald Throne in Seattle.
Seriously, what ideas do you have -- does anyone have -- about how to deal with these problems? Ideas that will work in the real world.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 15, 2017 - 11:03am PT
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How about rounding them up and putting them in camps in Napa where they can
be de-loused, de-toxed, triaged for mental problems, given vasectomies,
given either mental health care or jobs making license plates, and then
worked back into the city government? What goes around comes around, eh?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 15, 2017 - 11:21am PT
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Well I've always thought of you as Planetary Princess, so maybe this is all your fault.
But seriously, how do we fix these problems? Even just the two we're talking about here -- homelessness and skyrocketing real estate prices (and rents).
It's just not as simple as "throw the bums out." Because, even if we do vote the current bums out, what will the new bums do? Nobody in City Hall has a magic wand. I don't care who is the mayor of whatever city, s/he can't simply write a new law that ends homelessness. Or stops people from selling their property for the best price they can get.
How would you feel if the new bums in City Hall told you that the maximum price you could ask for your house was $250K? What happens to your golden years then? They'll kind of turn to tin years, or lead years, won't they?
I really am serious here. What can we, both as individuals and as a society, do? In the real world, not as in the world of waving magic wands.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 15, 2017 - 11:35am PT
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You could start by electing a few members of the business community to city council--instead of 9/9 "activists" you have there now. You could stop voting for self-proclaimed socialists like Kshama Sawant, and child rapists like Murray. You (Seattle) could stop ruining the rest of the state of Washington with your $54 Billion dollar transit scheme--that the rest of us are paying for. This last little gem is the reason we are leaving the state next year. After 55 years.
You really think $12--$15,000/year in property taxes is "fair?" You really think $900/year car tabs are "fair." You really think $20k in permits to replace your own sewer line is "fair?" And you wonder why there are homeless?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 15, 2017 - 11:38am PT
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How about rounding them up and putting them in camps in Napa where they can be de-loused...
And we can make them sew a big H on their clothing.
Anyway, this is not a city problem. This is am national problem. No mayor, no shuttling back and forth, is going to cure this problem. As the ranks of the unemployed grow larger and larger what's going to happen?
Of course we know no form of social democracy will work, as the list of the top five countries with the highest standards of living attests to:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 15, 2017 - 11:44am PT
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Lituya? Re your mention:
This last little gem is the reason we are leaving the state next year. After 55 years.
Are you thinking of moving to Idaho? My cuzzins & you would probably discover much in common.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Dec 15, 2017 - 01:39pm PT
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Tami, no time to write much at the moment (from work) but I think a ban on foreign ownership would be a good start. I'm sure you've read that New Zealand is doing this to curtail booming real estate prices.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 15, 2017 - 03:15pm PT
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Are you thinking of moving to Idaho? My cuzzins & you would probably discover much in common.
Predictable. In any event, Fritz, I want to remind you that every minute you spend responding to me is a minute away from that Illuminatti 9/11 Conspiracy blog you run. But hey, it’s your time lil’ puppet. ;-
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 15, 2017 - 05:14pm PT
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How about rounding them up and putting them in camps in Napa where they can
be de-loused, de-toxed, triaged for mental problems, given vasectomies,
given either mental health care or jobs making license plates, and then
worked back into the city government? What goes around comes around, eh?
Reminds me of the time we transferred a hands-tied problem employee to HR.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 15, 2017 - 06:00pm PT
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Lituya....Was that when you were working the drive thru window at Taco Bell....? Little jonny..
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 15, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
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LJ, sorry. Government work was all I could manage back then with my limited God-given skills. :-)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 15, 2017 - 06:12pm PT
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Lituya...Beats squirting barbeque sauce while groping a robot...LJ
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 15, 2017 - 06:17pm PT
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Barely.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 15, 2017 - 06:30pm PT
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DIDN'T ANY OF YOU PEOPLE READ DUNE????
Greatest books of all time:
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions
The Second Treatise of Government
Democracy in America
The Road to Serfdom
The Gulag Archipelago
All Quiet on the Western Front
The Social Construction of Reality
The Epic of Gilgamesh
The Bible
The Social Contract
A Brief History of Time
Dune
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Dec 15, 2017 - 07:18pm PT
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I left Seattle in 2005 after living most of my life there; there are now just too many people. I hate even driving over to use the airport the traffic is so bad. Used to be a great city BITD. Now? Sucks.
says the person living in luxury, in Palm Springs..........of Washington
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 15, 2017 - 09:12pm PT
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What? They've pink flamingos on the lawns of Yakima now?
Would'a thunk it?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Dec 15, 2017 - 11:12pm PT
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Lots of different forks in this thread...
I lived in SF for about 15 years, starting as a grad student renting a basement room in the outer sunset and leaving as a homeowner around when my kids got to be school aged (they were both born there). I loved living in the city. The homeless problem definitely got me down at times. The true blue homeless are so heartbreaking- obviously mentally ill and getting no real help. At the same time, sometimes I justed wanted to walk to work without being pan handled. However, even at its worst SF is not even close to the poop hellhole described by some- like 99% of the city is completely awesome.
Dense urban environments are very complicated and most issues can be reasonably argued on both sides.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 07:23am PT
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says the person living in luxury, in Palm Springs..........of Washington
Yeah, it's a great sign and makes me so proud!. At least I don't live near the reactors!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 09:08am PT
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Last time I was in Yakima was 35 years ago, when it was more like Calexico than Palm Springs. 😝
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 11:26am PT
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This is for all you doubters and haters..........
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Dec 16, 2017 - 11:29am PT
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My kid did part of his internship in Yakivegas three or so years ago. Lots of gunshot wounds, he tells me.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Dec 16, 2017 - 11:38am PT
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Yakima must not know that Palm Springs is now referred to as the "Gay Oasis of the Southwest".
Just saying.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 12:02pm PT
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The sign was put up in 1987 and is privately owned. Not sure what the owner's intent was, but I can assure you Yakima ain't no Palm Springs, more like a sort of central valley of Washington. Having said that, it isn't a bad place to live as long as you aren't in the hood. I have a great house in the Yakima-Barge historic district and the neighborhood is really nice, lots of trees and unique homes.
I'll tell you Cali people about one thing we do have: an irrigation system that's independent of the domestic water supply. Water all you want, keep the lawn green and the trees happy for about $200/year. Traffic isn't an issue, although there might be 10 cars at a traffic light during rush hour. There is a homeless problem, there are gang problems, and there are lots of eastern Washington conservative farmers; you should hear these guys talk about Hispanics, although their livelihood depends on Hispanic labor.
Anyway, better than some places, worse than others. It's only an hour to the mountains, which is great. Friends have a cabin in Goose Prairie which is a wonderful jumping off point for the Goat Rocks and other places.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
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On the edge you gotta it right-there's a ton of the city is pretty damn sweet-my house looks out across a valley to a hillside of little pink houses that twinkle at night-i can feel the seabreeze float by my door.
Dingus-look me up when you're in town-i tried to yell at you at the Sports' Basement showing of that yosemite movie.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 16, 2017 - 04:24pm PT
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On the edge you gotta it right-there's a ton of the city is pretty damn sweet-my house looks out across a valley to a hillside of little pink houses that twinkle at night-i can feel the seabreeze float by my door.
My sentiments exactly. And almost our house exactly -- we're on a ridgetop, surrounded by forest, and yet just 20 minutes from the center of the city.
Seattle is a wonderful place to live. And, as ontheedge said about SF:
even at its worst [Seattle] is not even close to the poop hellhole described by some- like 99% of the city is completely awesome.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 05:55pm PT
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Yeah well, go on down to 'Rat City' for a different perspective. I lived in the Maple Leaf area near Northgate, then in Lake Forest Park, two blocks from the lake and loved it, but the commute to Kent for work, later to south Boeing Field was just killer. 30 minutes to Boeing in the morning then 1:15 hours getting home, just to travel 20 miles or so. I was dying. It's overcrowded, expensive, and has lost so much of the charm it used to have.
I understand the Eastlake Zoo tavern, the Blue Moon, the Rez, and other places still exist, but it used to be fun and they are rapidly dying. Seriously, if you get to Seattle do a tavern dive journey; ain't like it used to be, but still fun. I remember being in Ballard and seeing a large crowd; it was the King of Norway opening a bus station. Blew me away. Good times. And there's things like the Ogre.
My brother drove from Capitol Hill, across the Aurora Bridge and up Hwy 99 to our house in Maple Leaf, at night, totally drunk, in reverse cause the transmission died!!!! Seriously, he made it all the way. Damn. This was a 1969 Chevy Impala that we had painted with multicolored crossways stripes; we called it the Popsicle® Car, so it wasn't a sort of machine to just blend in. True story: after it died another brother was visiting from Denver so we, for some reason mostly involving beer and to see what it was like, broke all the windows out with hammers, removed the plates, pushed the car to 15th Avenue and then coasted it down the hill to a grocery store parking lot. My brother (the reverse driving guy) started the engine, placed a cinder block on the throttle to give it gas and jumped out, only to remember he had left his keys in the ignition! He jumped back in, turned it off and pulled his keys out. The damn thing kept running, engine screaming, sparks started shooting out the exhaust, and the thing went ballistic. It was GREAT!!! I saw a couple of kids pushing it down the street a few days later. Hope they had fun with it. My brother was a pretty hot DJ on KISW and KZOK and had a VW bug that was a giveaway in a station contest: big sticker on the back saying 'Honk if You're Jesus'.
That's the Seattle I remember and love. Still good stuff, just too crowded.
We had an alley behind the Maple Leaf house, so for the 4th of July I had a brother in Alabama ship me a 20 packages of bottle rockets (20 X 144 = 2880 f*#king bottle rockets for god's sake). Got a garbage can and loaded it with 5 gross (720 bottle rockets), added a splash of gunpowder (FFF) then threw a match in. Damn, those suckers just shot out of there!!! Amazing sight. To be repeated a number of times. And this was in a downtown Seattle neighborhood.
We'd be arrested for terrorism nowadays.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 16, 2017 - 06:44pm PT
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Yeah well, go on down to 'Rat City' for a different perspective.
We go to Rat City all the time. It ain't what it used to be. Gettin' gentrified. Still not the most upscale neighborhood in the greater Seattle area, but if I were moving here now and looking for a place to buy...
And, like you, we lived in Maple leaf for a while, and liked it.
But you really need to come back for a visit (seriously. I'll open my cellar to you). The wonderful things you remember -- like the dive bars you listed -- are either gone, or you wouldn't like them now. But there are new wonderful things. That's the way of cities. Nothing stays the same, and to staple your feelings about a city to a particular point in time is to guarantee unhappiness.
And regarding the commute: Yes, commuting in [insert hated big city] sucks. For most people. But if you think about the path from home to work and back before you choose your home, you can considerably reduce the aggravation.
Or, you can get a bicycle.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Dec 16, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
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Bicycle...? I want the Popsicle car with the cinder block...
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 09:12pm PT
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Hey Ghost, just whining. I really liked Maple Leaf and lived there for 18 years; used to frequent the Reservoir Tavern. We'd take the old guy across the alley, Vic, down to the Spot 2 Tavern on 15th and get him drunk on MD 20-20. His wife Esther used to get really pissed at us. What the hell, the guy was 80 years old and he deserved a time with the guys. He used to piss in a jar in his garage.
rj. It's yours for $50k, a collectors item.
Edited to add: Writing about this just brought back so many great memories and so much fun. I remember working on my Formula Ford race car in the garage and hearing Mount St. Helens erupt........... Writing this stuff made me call my brother who still lives on the west side and share memories. Golden.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 10:29pm PT
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Wino, lived on Green Lake BITD. I bet nobody skinny dips there any more.
Eastlake Zoo? Lived two blocks from it. Did some serious swilling there
which often led to skinny dipping in Lake Union. Used to go up to the
Volunteer Park Water Tower and do laps around it in the rain in my double
boots with a pack on. Oh, and then there was going up to Phinney Ridge
and schussing down the hills and seeing how much air we could get with
our cars off the bumps at the intersections! Just like Bullitt!
Those were the days!
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Dec 17, 2017 - 09:58am PT
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So, it sounds like the SPCA has too much money. Who donates to them? I find the organization too top heavy and I despise their slanderous methods. This robocop thing just confirms my opinions.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2017 - 11:44am PT
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SPCA is a sanctimonious and elitist group that invaded the Mission District, harassing and driving off the area's homeless residents with a robotic security droid named R2-FU.
The SPCA's behavior were so heinous, so despicable, Ed Lee's heart gave out. The compassionate SF Mayor's final request was a new law to help the homeless.
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| Messages 1 - 95 of total 95 in this topic |
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