OT Let's face it Trump wins OT

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Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 6, 2017 - 07:33pm PT
I know, people are going to say this is a climber's forum, people are going to say it is like flogging a dead horse, some people may say I am stooopid.

But as I look at the headlines over the past months, who dominates? The 'reality' TV guy. (And I am a very experienced media person, a journalist for some 44 years in five countries, working on nationals and TV, but then I am just "fake news" to some of you, All I can say is go fly a kite, or jump in a lake).

Like him or loathe him, he is the news. And he must love it.

And this person may to some extent, determine our futures.

And Donald is loving it. Even if he falls, or fails.

And Putin is smiling. Collusion or not, Russia wins.

Think about it and then spray.

EDIT
And for those whose parents fled the post Germany Allied administration because their parents were active Nazi member party supporters, America welcomed some of you, but for some, couldn't Brazil or Argentina been better? There is enough hatred in the US without you people calling us stoopid.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 6, 2017 - 07:52pm PT
Patrick, this is a climber's forum. I think you may LIKE flogging a dead horse.

But who am I to judge anyone, really, even though I judge them when I don't vote for them.

I sure never voted for this dingaling.

And you are not stooopid.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 08:12pm PT
Mouse, no, I do not like flogging a dead horse.

But unless this is not kept in the "public eye", unless it is let to slide under the stealth, read slime, then yes, maybe the dead beast needs to be flogged, because perhaps it is not dead.

Do you understand that?

I may not live in the US, but as an American, I feel its repercussions.

EDIT

Are some of you Trump supporters happy? He boasts (what doesn't he) of some great legislative achievements.

What are they? Finally, a tax bill that will help all of Americans, but not him? Donald claims he is going to lose. Well, I find that difficult to believe, for a guy who claims he does not pay taxes and when he does (arm twisting) it is for the better of…

a) the nation and people
b) his children
c) himself

or his Russian 'bank' rollers (look it up, it is there).

So now, is this dead horse worth flogging? Does it perchance have life in it?

It is your future. You decide.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 08:29pm PT
And as cute and perhaps as true as they are, memes do not cut it. Reasonable discourse, now that I can deal with.

And in the previous years I have made an ass of myself on this forum. I have been abusive to some, apologies, perhaps one glass of wine too many, no excuse though.

I start a sincere thread about Mount Rainier, and the usual jokers and jerk offs want their say, their pathetic input. Okay I expected that, knowing this forum since 2005. Does it bother me? Well, it must, as I bring it up, but only like a pimple on the face (or butt). It is annoying, but just that.

Cheers

Patrick

NB You know where you can reach me.

EDIT

Trump sucks. But I think most of you, even his supporters, know that. The bigger question is: How in the world did the US get to this point? There are points, milestones I suppose, that can lead to that, we are not the diverse nation as some of suppose.

Since the beginning of this 'great' nation, we have not been so great. I have mentioned it before, and been ridiculed on this forum, about my family's history. Sawyers stepped forth in 1640, the second signatory to the Declaration, yep, Bartletts are in my tree.

Did we kill the 'red man' as we crossed the plains? I do not know.

I know that Samuel Clemens is a distant relative (he took his cousin's name Sawyer for is semi-autobriography, we were in St Joe Missouri before hitting the Oregon Trail). Both of my grandfathers were well-respected judges (West Virginia and Washington state).

Papa Casey has a statue in Pittsburgh, PA, Grandpa Sawyer was a captain the Rough Riders, and his friend Teddy made him Postmaster General of Washington state (nepotism I suppose).

I have laid this out before and I have been ridiculed on this forum. But those are my stats. So, while I may live abroad, I watch and I care about my country.

I will discuss anything with anybody, if it is a reasonable discourse. Just don't catch me when I have I had a couple of glasses of wine. then I may be an ass.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 6, 2017 - 08:48pm PT
Patrick, shouldn't you be practicing your crevasse rescue skills? You know.... for something big and icy in the Cascades.


Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 09:03pm PT
Patrick, shouldn't you be practicing your crevasse rescue skills? You know.... for something big and icy in the Cascades.

Fear, if I make it to the family reunion, Rainier is off the schedule. I think Donini's suggestion of Mount Stuart is more in line with what I can do, as far as gear (I have the shoes, rope, rack, no partner though, and free soloing is best left to those who can, but I have free soloed at that level, a long time ago in a galaxy far away).

More important, the crevasses of a family reunion to be negotiated.

Cheers fears

Paddy
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 6, 2017 - 09:03pm PT
Patrick, lad, of course I understand what you say. Please check the last several days worth of my Flames thread and you will see what's there and how dedicated I and others posting there are tp this wannabe president's eventual fall. He and his whole gang are reminiscent of a bad pope, say John XXIII the first, not Angelo Roncalli, of course, but the one deposed in the fifteenth century.

His presence on the scene is indicative of a sickness here and we Americans are, in general, aware, embarrassed, and not happy in general, with some exceptions...the Nazi types you mentioned earlier.

My feelings are that the younger generation is not aware enough but then I would not be surprised if I were wrong. I have little contact with the so-called Snowflake Generation, the ones who will vote for the first time in the next presidential election.

I can do discourse. Try me.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 09:24pm PT
Mouse, I have never had any inclination to doubt you, as you are genuine, I see that in your previous posts over the years.

But Merced? My mother was suckered into buying land in Atwater, when she could had bought land in Ygnacio Valley (Walnut Creek, where I was born). A real estate gold mine.

Atwater? Does it still exists? hah hah, just joking.

My mother was a dentist, a widow, with four children, she was a sucker. She never remarried after dad's death. She never learned, as she spoiled all of us. Me, the youngest, what climbing gear I wanted, she bought. Palisades School of Mountaineering (I want you to be taught properly), flying lessons, at first but then too "expensive" unless "you are going to be a pilot".

Everybody, but everybody, neighbors, friends they loved my mom.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
Dec 6, 2017 - 09:31pm PT

Trump Recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's Capital and Orders US
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 10:22pm PT
The point I am I trying to make is…

What good is our country if we fall into a sort of totalitarianism, where people become afraid of others because the "leaders" deem it so?

Are we bound to hysteria? Jody, you are just one of the most obvious ones, sorry to single you out but your "us against them mentality will not work. And I could add all the other conservative, and yes some liberals on this forum.

It is about us against ourselves.

We are a diverse nation, a diverse world, a planet, unless I am mistaken and their are "aliens", we are this world.

Nothing new here, nothing that has not said before, but something to always remind us of who we are.

A reminder of humanity.

Take your guns, hunt, I will not kill but I will gladly eat elk meat. I have no problems with being a carnivore, I do have some problems with guns.

Tax my ass on a properly, if said property is a burden on the community.

Do we let people starve in the streets and freeze under bridges?

what sort of society, world, is that?

I have no problem with billionaires, as such, unless they deny the people who put them there.

I do have a problem with greed, when is enough an enough?

When you step over the corpses of fellow humans, with a smile on your face, what are you?


EDIT

I can be an hypocrite in some ways, I can even contradict myself in minor ways, I recognize that. I am human. But I do try my best to be sincere. Sometimes I fail, and when I do, I look in the mirror and ask,"what could I have done differently?"
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 6, 2017 - 11:00pm PT
Lots of people have strange views/ideas about the Central Valley and Merced, Patrick. Your mother was not well-advised in her decision, unfortunately. She is not the only one to lose out on investing here...witness the recession that lowered real estate values several years ago.

But town by town up and down this valley of tule fog and exhaust fumes, it is the same. Lump Atwater in with Merced, that's fine. I'm happy here, as happy as I've been elsewhere with the exception of Yosemite Valley and that is all that really matters to me.

Trump's influence won't last forever, just as the recent recession did not. Things are constantly improving in one way while degenerating in others, like always.

What is important is to continually seek to improve yourself and those in your immediate circle, but not at the expense of others. Avarice and greed stand out and are newsworthy, but the everyday life of the humble worker bees continues, provided that the queen is healthy.

I wish sincerely that a sense of peace will come to you eventually, Patrick. You seem changed from your morose self of several months ago, and this makes me happy. It is all we are called to do by the better side of our humanity: provide some measure of happiness for our fellows.

Merry Christmas. Stay off the sauce.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 11:03pm PT
And if I post twice, I may be accused of chain posting, as one person put it.

I sit here, trying to put a second draft on a novel and I get, frustrated. I hit a blank wall.

So I lash out on the one forum I feel comfortable on.

There is no climbing about, that eases frustrations in a way. To feel the rock on the hands or the crunch of ice.

So I sit here on a very cold yet clear Irish morning at 7am. No wiser, no better, no wealthier, that I was last night.

But I know, I can always make a fool of myself on the Taco Stand. Been doing it for over a decade. A constant in life. It helps, hah hah.

Best wishes to all.

Patrick
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2017 - 11:21pm PT
Mouse, I fell in love (briefly) with a gal from Atwater (It was in Yosemite Valley, she was 16, I was 17, and she was really cute, but… nothing happened, we flirted, still)

Atwater holds a place in my heart. Just.

EDIT

Trevino, that was her name, her uncle was the golfer, gawd after all of these years, I never even thought about her. Until now.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Dec 6, 2017 - 11:45pm PT
The state of FACT in 2017:
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/434gqw/i-made-my-shed-the-top-rated-restaurant-on-tripadvisor
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 7, 2017 - 12:33am PT
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g32706-d818296-Reviews-Trevino_s-Merced_California.html

My son Scott brings his family here and they all love the place.

I have eaten here several times as well.

It is in the throbbing heart of downtown in one of the oldest buildings on Main.Don't really know if the family is the same as your old flame's from Atwater.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2017 - 01:56am PT
Don't really know if the family is the same as your old flame's from Atwater.

Yeah, neither do I. I always thought Trevino was Italian in origin. Doesn't matter. Once you are an American, it is difficult going back, hah hah

That said, Donald Trump makes me wish like I was from Mars. The guy is a total jerk off, but he has fooled enough people. How do these ass wipes get away with it? He screws companies, he screws contractors and sub-contractors. He screws suppliers, he screws his own shareholders. He screws the United States of America ("I am smart, I do not pay taxes"). He boasts about sexually assaulting women ("grab them by the pussy".*)

And he gets away with it. He is not as dumb as he looks apparently.

He has used Chinese steel in his projects in the US, he and his daughter use "slave" labour to produce their goods (ties and such) in foreign countries, not the good ole USA. He has cheated so many people, if all the many (thousands?) of lawsuits claim, and he comes out smelling like an orange blossom.

The guy is an idiot, I see him as an idiot savant. But his money buys him good lawyers, and we all know, a good lawyer can work wonders, as well as good accountants.

Sad but true. He seems to love screwing people. Next for a butt ream (apologies for the vulgarity)? Sheep and the CHP guy who supported Cruz, and the neo-Nazi guy whose parents fled Germany to avoid prosecution. He will try and screw them too. Hey SAR guy, your beloved POTUS. just embraced your hated Israel.

Which leaves me to a sort of conundrum. If Trump hates "niggers" and Muslims, like many of his base apparently (Make America White Again), how does his embracing the Israeli state sit with his anti-Jew supporters? Where does one reconcile this stuff? Weird.

Totally weird.

Go figure.

* And after he acknowledges he said "grab them by the pussy", and half-heartedly apologizing, now he claims he never said those words. It was fake news. The fake news (read MSM) that faked that tape (which he had already claimed was his voice, but now crawling back into his rat hole).

Yes, this forum needs to have threads such as this, whether I start them or somebody else does. At this point, it is no longer about climbing.

How can you turn a blind eye? For me, it is easy, I live in another country, and will be getting dual citizenship, so Trumps' domestic disasters will have little effect (and affect, I know the difference) upon me.

But I pity those who will be affected. And I worry about the US environment. In part, I worry for most Supertopians. Enjoy your tax sunset.

I do worry. The USA is my country of birth and my many forefathers and foremothers. The damage that Trump and his cohort are doing will take a generation, if not more, to correct.

Just watch and see. For those of my age (61, but a spry 101 is my goal, why not, I live sensibly, sort of), us baby boomers, we will live to see the Trump disaster, but what about down the road and the long-term?

Will your grandchildren be happy, and safe? Will they breathe fresh air, walk on clean beaches, wander in pristine hills?

Will they have that chance? Do you care about your children and their kids?

TRUMP MAY "WIN", BUT YOU WILL LOSE. Just wait and see.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 7, 2017 - 04:08am PT


Trump is only "winning" in the sense that Charlie Sheen was #winning! a few years ago, except that Trump is drunk on power, not cocaine.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 7, 2017 - 06:13am PT
He seems like a miserable sob to me. I can’t imagine he likes any of this very much.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Dec 7, 2017 - 07:07am PT
Patrick: Did we kill the 'red man' as we crossed the plains? I do not know.

Sure you do. It might simply be too painful to admit it.

Every culture has its own mythological archetype that it thinks it embodies. The U.S.’s might be democratic freedom, enterprise, and the rugged individualist. But, was it ever that way?

Honore de Balzac purportedly claimed, “behind every great fortune there is a crime.”

Recently, the irishman, pop star Bono was interviewed by a member of the Good Morning Football show on the NFL Network cable channel and said that America is the greatest invention of all time.

Every myth / image that’s held dear appears to have at least two sides to it. (1) The myth / image is an illusion. It just doesn’t really exist in practice—only in theory. (2) Images / myths are symbolic (non-verbal) expressions from a transcendent center of Man. They arise from the unconscious of individuals, from the experiences / histories of cultures, and from the species.

When we are young, we are idealistic and romantic. Toward our middle years, we see things a bit more comically and tragically. In our older age, we may finally come to understand and even embrace irony.

Be well.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2017 - 10:08am PT
MikeL, I suppose you are right in that my familial predecessors probably did participate in some atrocities as they pursued Manifest Destiny.


And I hate ironing. I will never embrace it.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:38am PT
That's a sticking point for me.

Do we pursue Destiny?

Or does Destiny pursue us?

It might be a bit presumptuous to say it is manifested.

I prefer, by and large, fate, fickle or otherwise.

Fate has that ring of superstition, brought about by the fact that the Fates were a myth.

A destined nation, that's America.

Trump would have us believe we are destined for greatness.

American history will then be spoken of in the future in terms of the Trump Era, which is already happening in the media.

It's nice to have one's own era.

Wm. Henry Harrison's era lasted about a month.

Here's to an attenuated Trump Era.

Please give my apologies to Mr. JB Briggs.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 7, 2017 - 12:17pm PT
At what cost, Jody? That's not winning, not a bit.
Once something is gone, sacrificed on the altar of greed, it's gone.
The bottom line is not the end all, but then life is not really meaningful.
We are all just atoms constantly bumping into each other.
Do not argue. I'm right, you're being a clown puppet.

Dishing up some fate.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
We were destined to be each other's fate:
Two dangerous strangers in the Paradise of America.

Jody, I'm baiting you. Don't take it so hard. I like your photographs. I don't like your ideas. You can go ahead and say the same about me. In fact, I don't care if you don't like my photographs.
Rexi

climber
Dec 20, 2017 - 04:30pm PT
I have never written anything about politics on a forum..

But i´m just lost with words. As a professional i´m constantly aiming towards evidence baced practice. And how mr T cherry picks data and uses "fake media" to stay away from everything that doesn´t suit him...ahh. i could go on and on... How debating with reason doesn´t seem to get us anywhere but slogans, arrogance and bullying wins..

It´s just all over. everything..

As a guy from the nordic countries, our connection with USA has been good and with mutual respect for ages. Today Nikki Haley posted a letter to our government, notifying that Mr T will be paying close attention to all votes tomorrow from the allies of the US..... and then Mr Ts statement today.. What??? What kind of dictatorship tantrum is going on??

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Dec 20, 2017 - 06:38pm PT
It's much much bigger than Trump.

The liberal orthodoxy of the last 50 years is collapsing under the weight of its own gathering irrelevance, unworkability, and insufferable arrogance--and it is not pretty.

American liberalism has progressed from a mob of spoiled pseudo intellectual counterculture radicals ,to a politically correct legion of federal deep state bureaucrats, to a disaffected gaggle of nattering nabobs of negativism and big government control freaks-- constantly bootstrapped by fake news propagandists.

And finally to a whining bunch of losers who think a billionaire developer/reality show host has done something unforgivable by kicking their collective asses.

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Dec 20, 2017 - 06:50pm PT

gloating after the goon rich people used to buy off the opposition to robber barrons stood down when the robber barrons went for the nations throat

The above can be said to hardly even rise to the level of rent-a-mob speak.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Dec 20, 2017 - 06:57pm PT
Ya
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 20, 2017 - 09:03pm PT
•Private payrolls increased by 190,000 in November, ahead of analyst expectations of 185,000

•Manufacturing had its best month of the year with 40,000 new jobs. Service-oriented industries grew by 155,000.

•Moody's economist Mark Zandi says the jobs market is "red-hot".

If this is true, WHY would it be necessary to pass a massive tax bill "to improve the economy?"

Isn't changing a winning strategy very likely to produce a less robust outcome? I remember when interest rates were >20%
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 20, 2017 - 09:15pm PT
WHY would it be necessary to pass a massive tax bill "to improve the economy?"

Ignoring the debate about whether the tax bill is necessary why wouldn't
anybody want a better economy unless they're a butthurt libtard nihilist
hoping for anything negative which could hasten Trump's departure? The
recovery from the last recession has been steady but unspectacular. Were
the economy to pick up another half point then the long stagnant wage
picture could conceivably benefit a lot of people.
David Knopp

Trad climber
CA
Dec 20, 2017 - 09:24pm PT
Cosmic what exactly do you think is better? What do you stand to gain from the tax bill? maybe a bit for a few years, but you'll pay for it in many other ways. The expanding economy? More low wage jobs-and like Mouse said, at what cost? At the cost of clean air and water, of legitimate decisions based on sound science... i could go on and on. It's a scam.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 20, 2017 - 09:27pm PT
He wins, you lose.
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 20, 2017 - 09:32pm PT
I would venture that most everybody wants a "better" economy.

Trump claims that the tax bill will provide it.

Many, many beautiful, beautiful economically inclined analysts disagree.

Let's all check in next year and see what's gone down.


Re-tread discredited trickle down leaves us with what ?

Retards v Litards

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Dec 20, 2017 - 09:46pm PT
Reilly! RE your thoughts on Trump & the Repubican Congress adding another 1.5 Trillion dollars (equals about $4,600.00 per American) to our National debt, to give the rich a tax break:

Ignoring the debate about whether the tax bill is necessary why wouldn't
anybody want a better economy unless they're a butthurt libtard nihilist
hoping for anything negative which could hasten Trump's departure? The
recovery from the last recession has been steady but unspectacular. Were
the economy to pick up another half point then the long stagnant wage
picture could conceivably benefit a lot of people.

The major U.S. tax indexes were down yesterday & today, which is proof of the old Wall Street saying: "Buy on the rumor, sell on the news."

The Trump tax-fuking of middle class America has been "priced-in" by the smart folks on Wall Street for months.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 20, 2017 - 09:54pm PT
WHY would it be necessary to pass a massive tax bill "to improve the economy?"


The tax bill was sponsored by corporations and very wealthy people, who paid for the lobbyists, Senators and Congressmen. The official GOP smokescreen is to pretend that the tax cuts will benefit the middle class. The reality is that corporations and wealthy people will be the primary beneficiaries of the new tax bill. Most non-wealthy people will see meager reductions in their tax bills, if that; some can expect their taxes to actually increase under the new bill. Also, the tax breaks, if any, for people are temporary (corporate tax breaks are permanent, or at least until a new tax bill is passed when Democrats control Congress and the White House in 2020).


The GOP is still flogging the trickle-down dementhesis (it's not a theory - it's a demented hypothesis) and saying that the corporations will use their tax savings to pay higher wages, and create jobs. The repatriated money that is currently stashed in offshore accounts, they say, will also be used in the same way. Nobody who is paying attention thinks that is going to happen. The corporations will use the tax break to benefit themselves and their shareholders, not their workers. The ultra-wealthy people are not going to stop being money addicts, just because their taxes have gone down. If anything, the new tax bill increase their addiction to money.


The last time there was a tax holiday for corporations' offshore money, in 2004, about 80% was used for stock buy-backs by the companies. This time, with stock prices at all-time highs, corporations are, instead, expected to pay down debt that they incurred as a result of not having cheap access to their offshore money. Again, the benefits of the tax cuts will go the shareholders, and to pay for obscene executive bonuses for "doing such a good job at reducing corporate taxes".



Corporations are seeing record profits right now, but they aren't paying higher wages. Even with the competitive pressure of low unemployment, American wages are flat, or decreasing.

Adjusting for inflation, the productivity of American workers has risen exponentially since the 1970s, but wages have remained flat, or have even decreased since then. The difference between productivity and wages is profit, and that has directly led to all-time highs in the stock market. The stock market overwhelmingly benefits the wealthy, and they and the corporations have used some of those profits to buy political power to further increase their profits, and further increase their political power, and so forth, in a positive feedback loop malfeasance cycle.

Today's American business climate is all about increasing the wealth gap, not closing it. The GOP tax bill will increase, not decrease, that gap. It will further increase the ability of wealthy people and corporations to spend even more money, in order to get even more legislation passed that benefits them at the expense of the public.


This will go on until the disproportionate influence of big money in politics comes to an end.

And, good luck with that, millennials.



Majority of US corporations don't intend to use tax savings to increase wages or create jobs.


Corporations expected to use repatriated offshore money to pay down corporate debt, not increase wages or jobs.


Very few corporations intend to use tax savings to invest in their businesses. They don't need money, but they'll take it, anyway.




A surprise denouement of the Trump and GOP power grab for the very wealthy may be that disaffected and disenfranchised Republican voters may, finally, see the GOP for what it really stands for, and who it really benefits, and they will vote Democrats into office. The anti-Trump, anti-GOP backlash has already started, and it will only accelerate because the Republicans are not just tone-deaf, they are completely deaf to the needs of their voter base.

Hopefully, Trump & Co. will fatally injure the GOP with their 1%-centric agenda, and after the GOP becomes irrelevant and obsolete, and dies, the American public will loudly declare,

NEVER AGAIN!


And they will build a Democaust Memorial in Washington D.C. to remind people in the future of what can happen when evil is allowed to take control and run amok.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 21, 2017 - 02:50am PT
Now they can start drilling in the ANWR. Yeehaw.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Dec 21, 2017 - 06:35am PT
I agree that Trump won this battle.

But he will lose the war. Trump has ignited a grassroots backlash that will finally put the last nail in the GOP's coffin.

Stand the f*#k by for the obliteration of the GOP.
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Dec 21, 2017 - 07:36am PT
Man I hate to be vindictive buuuut a couple of you guys are dovchebags! And one of you is a pig. The level of gloating is disgusting. Reilly seems to be the only voice of reason from the republican side, from what I can tell. At least he applies some logic, something lacking from some of you savages.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Dec 21, 2017 - 07:40am PT
I walked by this car the other day. My normal response would be that I'm glad this person has the right to voice their beliefs in public without the fear of retribution.

Not so this time because I now assume this person is a supporter of Thrump, Fox News and a growing number if Republicans conspirators working to consolidate power for the Presidency and circumvent our constitution.

My brother- the retired Army Cobra Pilot, My Dad- the decorated Navy SEAL, my father-in-law- the veteran Naval carrier pilot are all shocked by this Presidency and his collaborators.

My son's and family are prepared to hit the streets if Rosenberg or Muller or fired.


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Dec 21, 2017 - 07:50am PT
But he will lose the war. Trump has ignited a grassroots backlash that will finally put the last nail in the GOP's coffin.

I heard trump say that he would go out and campaign for GOP candidates in the midterms.
I would venture to guess that those are safe seats.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Dec 21, 2017 - 08:00am PT
I got a Christmas card from my congressman Dana Rohrabacher. That's a first. He must be running scared.
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 21, 2017 - 08:01am PT
**

Opioids now kill more people than breast cancer


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/21/health/drug-overdoses-2016-final-numbers/index.html

The states with the highest rates of overdose in 2016 were West Virginia, Ohio and New Hampshire, the report said. The rate of overdose in West Virginia was over 2.5 times the national average of 19.8 overdose deaths for every 100,000 people.

Trump won two out of the three. Draw your own conclusions, but bear in mind that:

Donald Trump easily won West Virginia with 68.7% of the vote, giving him his largest margin of victory in the country.
.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Dec 21, 2017 - 08:07am PT
I got a Christmas card from my congressman Dana Rohrabacher. That's a first. He must be running scared.

he's a nut, but he did vote against the tax bill.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 21, 2017 - 08:08am PT
We’re so much better off now that the threshold for the estate tax has been raised.

I’m happy that my tax dollars will be able to subsidize the Jared Kushners of the world, rich kids born into rich families, who will be able to live lavish, idle lives, tax free. I’m happy we’ve taken another huuuge step towards subsidizing an aristocracy. Good job.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 21, 2017 - 08:17am PT
Oh, and our MAGA Man will benefit nicely from this tax bill. Meanwhile, our debt will balloon, the arctic will be drilled, and health care premiums will likely rise because of the repeal of the individual mandate.

But trump wins. Bless him. As long as we are sucking his dick we might as well swallow too.


Again, good job republicans.

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Dec 21, 2017 - 08:51am PT
Donald Trump easily won West Virginia with 68.7% of the vote, giving him his largest margin of victory in the country.

What does that prove?

The people of West Virginia have the lowest average education in the USA, and they are amongst the poorest and the most obese in the USA.

So it proves that Trump supporters are stupid fat poor people.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 21, 2017 - 09:39am PT
California has WV beat in bad education and percentage of residents in poverty.

EDTI:

CA and WV are neck and neck for bad education:

http://isp.netscape.com/news/fte/statesrankedstudenttestscores/statesrankedstudenttestscores
monolith

climber
state of being
Dec 21, 2017 - 10:11am PT
Chaz, go by county and it becomes more clear.

Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Dec 21, 2017 - 10:15am PT
he's a nut, but he did vote against the tax bill.

He's a nut, but Rohrabacher does vote to support funding for the Pacific Crest Trail.
monolith

climber
state of being
Dec 21, 2017 - 10:18am PT
Contrary votes are often allocated to help politicians for political reasons. If push came to shove, you can bet he would have voted yes.
Rexi

climber
Dec 21, 2017 - 11:35am PT
Well.. Despite Trumps/Nikki's letter notifying allied nations that the US would closely watch their votes today in terms of Jerusalem. Also giving a statement yesterday that nations who would not vote with the US would be cut of in money flow ( without further explaniations). Out of 193 nations, 9 voted with the US.

-so it seems that not all his tactics work out.

And just to be clear, i´m not going to talk about Palestine/Israel. My original comment on this thread an now the follow up is due to how shocked i am how he makes his arguments and makes decisions. For example, with money flow to different nations, reduce it, stop it. OK, but sending letters and giving those statements trying to coerce complience within the UN are very very weird tactics.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Dec 21, 2017 - 11:47am PT
T Hocking- I'll see you on the streets if El D#@&%e' makes his move☮️
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 21, 2017 - 12:43pm PT
So it proves that Trump supporters are stupid fat poor people.

... and apparently heavy opi0id users.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 21, 2017 - 12:51pm PT
For example, with money flow to different nations, reduce it, stop it. OK, but sending letters and giving those statements trying to coerce complience within the UN are very very weird tactics

Why would you expect the U.S. Government to treat foreign countries - whether they support our interests or not - better than they treat our own states?

Money from Washington ALWAYS has strings attached. For example, states whose drinking age is under 21 get no Federal highway money.

I hope Trump is serious. Maybe your country will make up the difference, once U.S. money is cut off.

Besides, we're broke. I don't know if you saw this week's American news or not, but we have a king hell budget deficit, and it matters now.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Dec 21, 2017 - 12:59pm PT
Chaz, as Orwell might say, "Republican deficits good! Democratic deficits bad!"

Sad!
Rexi

climber
Dec 21, 2017 - 01:18pm PT
Chaz

You are missing the point completely. I´m not arguing money here, "my country" as you state is not dependent on US money if that makes you at ease. But like i said i´m not arguing money.

I´m sad how poor debates are, how decision making is generally not data based or evidence based. It is not just Trump, many other politicians all over the world doing the same but he seems to be in the forefront of working this way. And the "threat letters" i mentioned is one example. and "cutting money" threats as well. I know nothing about that money that he mentioned but i would imagine that it is based on all sorts of agreements, contracts, mutual interests and so on. And to limit all those interest into one subject/votes in the UN seems very odd to me. But that is just one example of this we could find many many more.

-so I´m not going to comment more here, don´t like the way this conversation is heading and i´m pretty sure that we need to sit down with a cup of coffee to talk properly and make our arguments in a calm way with some more time to discuss further.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 21, 2017 - 01:29pm PT
Trump has shocked the nation because he is Caligular.

For example, he appointed an old nag to a government post: Secretary of Education.


Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Dec 21, 2017 - 01:39pm PT
Trump went one step further. Caligula never did appoint his horse consul.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Dec 21, 2017 - 02:29pm PT
But Caligula was known to favor prostitutes and golden showers.
originalpmac

Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
Dec 21, 2017 - 02:58pm PT
^^^ Boom. Mic drop.

Edit to add. Not trying to insult prostitutes. Would certainly rather hang out with some women working the worlds oldest profession then to have to read and hear about the current bag with which one dovches every day.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 21, 2017 - 03:15pm PT
For tRump, nothing beats a reach-around while Putin whispers sweet nothings in his ear.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Dec 21, 2017 - 03:28pm PT
Fascinating reading, even though it was written 7 years ago it has even more merit today.

https://www.sott.net/article/224670-Political-Ponerology-A-Science-on-The-Nature-of-Evil-adjusted-for-Political-Purposes#
WBraun

climber
Dec 21, 2017 - 03:40pm PT
A system of government created by a small pathological minority that takes control over a society of normal people.

Yep, that's it Studly.

We actually see it in the responses here (brainwashed st00pid politards).

They all focus on the wrong people as the source (Trump)

Trump is only a puppet.

The real pathological psychos in DC are never out in front for the people to see.

They remain far in background unseen all while the st00pid brainwashed fools remain fixated on the expendable puppets ......
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 21, 2017 - 03:52pm PT
Adelson, Koch brothers & son, Mercer, Scaife, Olin ...

Who ya gonna call, ghostbusters?

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 21, 2017 - 04:03pm PT
Skull and Bones
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 21, 2017 - 04:15pm PT





Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Dec 21, 2017 - 07:46pm PT
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Dec 21, 2017 - 07:48pm PT
Krease

Gym climber
the inferno
Dec 21, 2017 - 08:23pm PT
Mussolini was probably twice as smart as drumpf, though
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 22, 2017 - 12:22am PT
Trump just scored a major victory in a United Nations vote regarding his decision to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and move the US Embassy there as soon as possible.

Trump got nine votes validating his Jerusalem decision. Press Secretary Sarah Sanders declared it an "overwhelming victory" for Trump's foreign policy agenda.

#MIGA
#FearlessLeaderCan'tLose





Sarah Sanders had no comment regarding the 128 U.N. votes condemning Trump's decision as recklessly dangerous to peace worldwide.

#WaitingForTheRecount
#LookOverThereInstead




United Nations vote rejects Trump's Jerusalem decision, 14 to 1



mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 22, 2017 - 05:37am PT
Never let 'em see you smile. You'll appear to be weak as well as stupid.

Il Presidente smiles way too much over the dumbest things.

As reported this morning in The Guardian, the vote came after a redoubling of threats by Nikki Haley,
the US ambassador to the UN, who said that Washington would remember
which countries “disrespected” America by voting against his unilateral
recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2017 - 06:48am PT
10x smarter,
at least Mussolini imprisoned all of Italy mobsters. kept them out of business till bushes pappy got em let out on the promise they would kill all the labor activists...

More disciplined too.
unlocked gait

Gym climber
the range
Dec 22, 2017 - 07:23am PT
maturity or f*#king wisdom; probably just experience has taught me that though some horizons appear horrible at the journey's outset, through commitment, determination and less organized emotions like folly, i traverse the daunting landscape and in the process rearrange it so's that it's less ugly and i come out the other side of the experience rewarded and better for my struggle.

immediately i'm thinking of two parking garages on my desk; both are quite challenging engineering wise, and the time constraints are totally unrealistic. i walked into the projects intimidated. i kept my head down and chipped away at the process. an now, both are complete and submitted and i'm a better designer for the struggle.

1 year behind and 3 more ahead with the devil in charge has me angry and moderately hopeless. let's just keep our heads down and march out this forced battle. wading through white shite, with grey hairs in it. oh and it has a slight citrus hue to it.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Dec 22, 2017 - 08:04am PT
Mussolini visits Milan:
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Dec 22, 2017 - 11:25am PT
Trump got nine votes validating his Jerusalem decision. Press Secretary Sarah Sanders declared it an "overwhelming victory" for Trump's foreign policy agenda.

It's good to see that respect for American leadership has been "restored" and we don't have to suffer under that laughing stock known as Obama.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2017 - 11:31am PT
I think by signing the tax bill this year, drumpf just screwed the republicans.
unlocked gait

Gym climber
the range
Dec 22, 2017 - 11:32am PT
take another shot of poison, sir.
you've spent half your life stumblin around drunk on fear.
maybe all of it.

trump is a murder weapon; world wide.

the terrorists know that he does more damage alive
than the prize he would fetch dead.

he's so stupid though, and so are his coward followers,
that he does not realize he's working for the worst people in the world.

despite your lob of faux confidence,
your hollow constitution is glaring.



edit, not you, 10b. mine was in response
to the third class thinker two up.

Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Dec 22, 2017 - 12:29pm PT
Right - Benito was far more intelligent than DT, but look what it got him anyway.

I'm desperately worried about the situation. When a would-be autocrat starts losing power or is threatened, as by the investigation, his response is often to find a reason to declare a national emergency and suspend civil liberties (including protests), and lock in power. In the past this has often been by starting a war. One day you are in a sort of democracy, the next your civil rights are gone and you are stuck with it.

How to hobble this fool? An outright revolution could be catastrophic. Perhaps a few million-person marches would convince his republican supporters to back off and swing the house and senate back into Demo hands. Yeah, I know, Demos aren't lily white either, but one hell of an improvement. Not an idea solution, but those are the parties we've got. Or perhaps a general strike, or series of them, might get the idea across. There's one being planned already: Google Strike4Democracy.

It's impossible not to laugh at that narcissistic simpleton, but we are on thin ice and MUST do something about it besides laugh and groan. The US, despite being on an economic high (and why not since corporations have few controls any more) is slipping rapidly into a far-right autocracy.
Or oligarchy, or kleptocracy, or some combination.

I'm an American (dual, actually) but am awfully glad I'm living in Canada. Except that it's difficult to be an activist from here.

And Merry Christmas to all!
unlocked gait

Gym climber
the range
Dec 22, 2017 - 12:44pm PT
uh, i think mr. west's reply up thread was sarcastic.
god i'm humiliated. my mistake is glaring.

i apologize, August. you just did time for someone else's crime.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 22, 2017 - 01:43pm PT
I think by signing the tax bill this year, drumpf just screwed the republicans.


Trump may wait until 2018 to sign the tax bill, so that the GOP doesn't have to explain $120+ billion in automatic Medicare cuts to their voters in an election year.






I just saw that Fearless Leader signed the tax bill, despite its obvious effect on the 2018 elections. I had to edit this post to reflect that.


Fearless Leader is like Hitler: his blunders are of the greatest strategic importance to his opponents. The worst thing the Democrats could do is remove him from office, and let a sane, competent person from the GOP wreak worse havoc on the nation.




Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Dec 22, 2017 - 01:50pm PT
Too late.
President Trump on Friday morning signed a sweeping tax-cut measure — his first major legislative achievement — before heading off for a Christmas vacation at his Mar-a-Lago property in Palm Beach, Fla.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-president-trump-signs-tax-bill-1513954419-htmlstory.html
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 23, 2017 - 08:21pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Lollie

Social climber
I'm Lolli.
Dec 24, 2017 - 01:13am PT
Times' Square, New York:
unlocked gait

Gym climber
the range
Dec 26, 2017 - 08:27am PT
russia loves you cosmic. putin loves all republicans.

but it is not a sincere love, the kind that warms.

no. he loves you because america is only as strong as it's weakest
team member.

that's why he's promoting your ass-man in charge.

because your fear weakens what could be a great and thus competitive nation.

ignorant and scared prey are simple targets.
and putin is a smart man. he chooses the
easiest path to his personal gain.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 26, 2017 - 08:42am PT
"How to hobble this fool" - Pray for indictments. Pray hard. Because, yes, the stress is ticking away at his timer.

How to mitigate the damage already done on the world stage is another matter, and not one limited to the US. It's been shown that the same strategy that swung the 2016 election was behind Brexit and the Catalonian separation. And the workings behind that strategy has come from Russia.


But back to hobbling the fool in our corner, and the McNasties who are the secret sauce of his Big Nothingburger, this guy has been doing a great job of driving donations and support to Blue candidates. Sadly, it is money that makes the difference, so the ore of it they have to sling the mud and present themselves as outfitted with a golden halo, the better. Look for his Go.Fight.Win posts to see what's happening

https://twitter.com/truefactsstated
dirtbag

climber
Dec 26, 2017 - 09:10am PT
Elections are ten months and some change away. Flip congress, control committees, and stifle appointments: that’s our best hope for change.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 26, 2017 - 09:42am PT
Going to need a combination of fresh perspective and youthful energy AND people who have been there, done that, and know how the hellhole is put together. And people who are able to see what the GOP is gong to do to remain in the lead. You can bet it is NOT going to be any same old, same old OR "Follow the footsteps of Dear Leader."
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 26, 2017 - 09:56am PT
Damage control is about the only goal the Dems can hope to accomplish if they regain a majority.. it's going to be the same power brokers dictating American social and economic policy regardless of which party is in power...The only difference being the dems won't screw it up as bad as the repubs...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 26, 2017 - 03:24pm PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 26, 2017 - 03:24pm PT
Sadly, it is money that makes the difference, so the ore of it they have to sling the mud and present themselves as outfitted with a golden halo, the better. Look for his Go.Fight.Win posts to see what's happening



It is easy to forget that money is a surrogate. A billion dollars does not buy an election. Money buys volume of VOICE. However, it is VOTES that determine elections. Focusing solely on money, misses the lesson of Alabama, where it was community organizing by non-traditional players that won the election, not money.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Dec 26, 2017 - 04:08pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 26, 2017 - 05:39pm PT
The sordid cycle of history necessitates that Trump be recognized as a recycled version of Petronius Maximus.


For starters, compare the cognomen, Petronius Maximus, with its cognate:

Trumpianus Maximus - - - which literally translates as, "Trump is the world's biggest as#@&%e"



Like Petronius, Trump came to political power through inherited wealth, deceit, skullduggery, a gullible public and old-fashioned palace intrigue. Petronius fabricated imaginary plots against the Emperor Valentinian III, and used the subsequent executions of high officials to goad their supporters into murdering the emperor himself. Trump's rise to power depended on fabricated campaign lies, imaginary plots and deceiving the public regarding his true intentions.

Both Petronius and Trump were unqualified for the highest office in their respective lands. Both committed astonishing blunders that were of the greatest detriment to the citizens they were supposed to be protecting.

In a manner surprisingly, and alarmingly, similar to Trump's foreign policy decisions, Petronius unilaterally canceled an important political treaty with a foreign leader - Vandal King Genseric - which directly led to the death of Petronius at the hands of enraged Roman citizens, and with the Vandals sacking and pillaging Rome.

Before King Genseric and his marauding troops left Rome with everything of value that could be carried off, Genseric ensured that the Petroniusly-cancelled political agreement would be fulfilled as originally agreed upon: Genseric's son was married to Valentinian's daughter.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 27, 2017 - 07:50am PT
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Dec 27, 2017 - 08:45am PT
A few weeks into the new presidential term, Stephen Colbert said in his monolog, "The news from each day makes me feel like I'm riding on a roller coaster, where every morning I wake up and I want to throw up."

That pretty much sums my last year.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 27, 2017 - 03:39pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just wait.

Trump hasn't even gotten his boner on.

Next year will be more of the same, but even worse.


Unless he is stopped, Trump's hubris and sense of omnipotence will increase, and he will become more and more Caligular.


There has to be a nationwide effort for citizens to gain control of both houses of Congress, so that the options of impeachment and removal of office are available. Right now, those options are unavailable, because the GOP has no concern for the nation, outside of their own tiny group of campaign financiers.

We need to do this now, before Trump successfully achieves his demented fantasy of becoming an Armeggedon-igniting Anti-Christ character, as depicted in the New Testament.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 2, 2018 - 06:16pm PT
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 2, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 2, 2018 - 09:57pm PT
Trump probably won't take credit for surge in coal deaths.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/01/02/coal-mining-deaths-surge-2017-after-hitting-record-low/998410001/
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 3, 2018 - 06:37am PT
Moosenuke....Yeah , hilarious...Until your antlers fall off from the radioactiv fallout...
dirtbag

climber
Jan 3, 2018 - 07:33am PT
Well it’s a good thing hillary isn’t in charge.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 3, 2018 - 09:24am PT
Having a junior high locker room sword-fight with a petty dictator over twitter.

How much greater can this country get before the war starts?
Nuglet

Trad climber
Orange Murica!
Jan 3, 2018 - 09:35am PT
HUGE button!!!!!!!!

pray to Trump to forgive sinz
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 3, 2018 - 10:28am PT
WaPost:

Bannon called meeting with Russian lawyer ‘treasonous’ and other claims from new Trump book
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 3, 2018 - 10:29am PT
Trump’s my-button-is-bigger brinkmanship with North Korea again shows his fixation on size

North Korean dictators have been insulting U.S. presidents for seven decades. But President Trump is the first to let their taunts get under his skin, and some foreign policy experts are pained by his naivete.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 3, 2018 - 10:31am PT
Israelis voice warnings, Palestinians talk of ‘blackmail’ in wake of tweets by Trump
The Trump administration’s threat to cut aid to the Palestinians to force them into a peace deal may have dire humanitarian consequences that could backfire on Israel, Israeli security officials and analysts warned.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 3, 2018 - 10:40am PT
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 3, 2018 - 11:35am PT
"Like Petronius, Trump came to political power through inherited wealth, deceit, skullduggery, a gullible public... Petronius fabricated imaginary plots... Trumpianus Maximus - - - "

Another striking similarity:
Circus Maximus becomes Circus trumpulous, a daily alt-reality show of golf, twits, leaks, firings, fakefacts, corruption, and belching.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 3, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
(CNN)At a time when people are battling over whether to take down Confederate War statues and memorials, a pair of state lawmakers in South Carolina want to put one up.

And it wouldn't be just another Civil War monument. It would be a monument to honor the sacrifices of black Confederate troops from South Carolina.



Problem is, historians say there weren't any black Confederate soldiers in South Carolina.



The lawmakers, South Carolina state Reps. Bill Chumley and Mike Burns, filed a pair of bills late last year for the 2018 legislative session that would form a commission to create a monument to South Carolina's black Confederate troops.

"This monument can help educate current and future generations of a little-known -- but important -- part of South Carolina history," Burns said back in October in a statement to CNN affiliate WIS. "These African-Americans, like many of their Caucasian contemporaries, stepped up to defend their home state during a tumultuous time in our country's history. Their service has largely been overlooked or forgotten."
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 3, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
Manafort is suing the justice department...Too funny....A good defense is a strong offense...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 3, 2018 - 08:54pm PT
Trump's Lawyer sends a Cease & Desist letter to Bannon
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-attorney-sends-bannon-cease-desist-letter-disparaging/story?id=52128555

"Lawyers on behalf of President Donald Trump sent a letter Wednesday night to former White House Chief Strategist Stephen Bannon demanding he refrain from making disparaging comments against the president and his family."


Ummm, can The Donald BE as stupid as to think commanding Bannon to shut his mouth is going to make that book disappear?

Excerpt from the link above:
"Trump attorney Charles J. Harder of the firm Harder Mirell & Abrams LLP, said in a statement, "This law firm represents President Donald J. Trump and Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. On behalf of our clients, legal notice was issued today to Stephen K. Bannon, that his actions of communicating with author Michael Wolff regarding an upcoming book give rise to numerous legal claims including defamation by libel and slander, and breach of his written confidentiality and non-disparagement agreement with our clients. Legal action is imminent." "


Uhhh, yes it is. But not the legal action you think!

John Schindler (20Commitee on Twitter) has All. But. Declared. in writing that Bannon(or Whiskey Steve, as he referred to him) was acting as a mole in the WH.


Personally, I find it hard to believe that that, that...that "man" was capable of working the DT insiders to give up the goods, and not an integral part of the sh#t show, but apparently it is so. Maybe he was screwed, and "politely asked" by the FBI to do them a favor ad help with this little problem called Donald Trump." But whatever the case - this seems to be the finger taken out of the leaking dyke that will FINALLY get the Trump Loyalists to "GET IT."

I mean really, now. If even STEVE BANNON has turned on the Trumps like a hyena on a crippled newborn Caribou, I don't know how any "just regular GOPer" can remain bolstering the Trumps.


My god - what a strange, strange year it has been. And it's only day THREE!

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 4, 2018 - 07:25am PT
My wife and I have a very special bottle of Champagne reserved for Impeachment Day- can't wait!
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 4, 2018 - 07:51am PT
If the excerpts from the book are true, trump will not seek reelection. If he does(to massage his ego), look for a divorce from Melania.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 07:53am PT
But if he signed the non-disclosure and anti-defamatory contracts I think he and any publisher will definitely have a challenge on their hands.


How do you think the Discovery process is going to go on that suit? I guess that going forward with it will prove one of two things beyond any doubt. Either 1) Donald Trump is innocent(as claimed), or 2)Donald Trump's balloon has seriously snapped its tether to reality.


Also, IF the damned near claim he was moled up is true, I think the suit against Bannon will be a bit far down on the "to do" list for the Trump legal eagles(or vultures, depending on your perspective).

Also, the publisher signed no such agreement. Book is set to come out on Tuesday, 1/9. Only five days away, and includes a weekend. But, there'e supposed to be a web drop today. Maybe it's already come, though I don't see it when I Google. I'm pretty sure it would be there.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 4, 2018 - 07:56am PT
I see a brilliant advertising effort.....
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 08:06am PT
His legal eagles have told publisher "STOP THE PRESSES!"

Problem is - the book has already been placed into the hands of public. There is really no way to stop every salicious detail to come out now. None.

May be that the book never comes out in numbers, although I have the feeling that it will, but it only takes one. And that one is out there, among the early release numbers.

Yeah - If Callie wrote a textbook on Creepsters, Steve Bannon's image would be the defining one - but (IF it is true he was sent in as the canary in the coal mine) he's being handled. You play with politics and world class crime, they're gonna make you walk the plank when they catch up to you. Most don't have the sack to refuse. They walk the plank, dance the dance, drink each night to run, run, run, as fast as they can. But every morning they wake up to the knowledge they are still on that plank; that their nightmare existence is not just a bad dream.
Da-Veed

Big Wall climber
Bigfork
Jan 4, 2018 - 08:18am PT
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 4, 2018 - 08:33am PT
Another story that is in the book is how Trump like to try get his friends wife's into bed. The book is number 1 on amazon.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 4, 2018 - 08:39am PT
Hum, I guess the cons really don't care about states rights.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 08:55am PT
No one really care about states rights. We pretend to care when it suits our interests.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 4, 2018 - 09:48am PT
Hard to imagine that publicly trying to stop the book from being published is a good PR move. Makes tRump and his clown car look even more desperate. Either he just won't listen to his advisers, or they are just as clueless has he is.

It will probably ensure yuuge sales.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 09:50am PT
Bernie cares

About decriminalization of marijuana? Prolly.

About states’ rights per se? Prolly not.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:10pm PT
Hum, I guess the cons really don't care about states rights.

It's about inconsistency. Selective disregard of federal laws, as it suits the sitting President..
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 4, 2018 - 12:25pm PT
To a great extent the whole states rights theory is made up by the right wing to push their own agenda, as is convenient. There is no actual broad "stares rights" spelled out in the Constitution.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 4, 2018 - 01:33pm PT
Sanders called on Attorney General Jeff Sessions to reverse an expected decision rolling back an Obama-era policy giving states leeway to legalize recreational marijuana use.

Sanders has been in Congress a hell of a long time. He was there when Democrats ran the show, and he was there when Republicans ran the show.

When did Sanders ever introduce legislation to repeal the Federal marijuana laws?

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 4, 2018 - 01:52pm PT
Regulating marijuana and repealing the Federal marijuana laws are two different things.

Sanders' "Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act" would just trade one set of bad laws for another.

zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 02:06pm PT
So what's the status of synthesized THC and/or lookalikes?

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 4, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
Either he just won't listen to his advisers, or they are just as clueless has he is.

From what I've read, people like Mattis, Kelly, McMaster, and Tillerson are very aware of what trump gets himself into. They've given up trying to advise him, and don't want to be tied to his actions.
WBraun

climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 04:00pm PT
Jeff Sessions is the brainwashed nutcase that watched "Reefer Madness" and believes every word of it in that horseshit movie.

Face it, they're gonna let you keep your guns but take your bongs away and send you to FEMA camps where you get Prozac IV drips all day long ......
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Jan 4, 2018 - 05:21pm PT
^^^^^ a post by the duck I fully agree with
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 4, 2018 - 05:58pm PT
Sanders' "Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act" would just trade one set of bad laws for another.



Perhaps you could elaborate?

You favor DUI? Selling on school campuses? To minors?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 4, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
You favor DUI? Selling on school campuses? To minors?


Laws on the books right now that don't mention the word "marijuana" already address those problems. Those are not the type of problems the Feds would handle anyway. Those are local concerns.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 4, 2018 - 06:03pm PT
Jeff Sessions , brainwashed nutcase..!! Reefer madness..LMAO...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 4, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
To a great extent the whole states rights theory is made up by the right wing to push their own agenda, as is convenient. There is no actual broad "stares rights" spelled out in the Constitution.



10th Amendment:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 4, 2018 - 06:09pm PT
Sanders' "Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol Act" would just trade one set of bad laws for another.

you state that the laws regulating alcohol are bad. Please elaborate?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 4, 2018 - 06:20pm PT
you state that the laws regulating alcohol are bad. Please elaborate?


I tended for 19 years, in three states (CA, AZ, AK)

If there is a more illogical, arbitrary, inconsistent, and just plain stupid category of laws than the liquor laws, I'm unaware of them.

The liquor laws are so illogical that often I would make up my own "liquor laws" to keep the joint running as I thought it should. Even my bosses would sometimes fall for the "I can't. It's a liquor law." line of bullsh#t.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 4, 2018 - 08:01pm PT
That green sh#t will rot your brain and make you think your sprinter van is getting 24mpg...rj
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 4, 2018 - 08:10pm PT


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
mooch

Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Riverkern Annex)
Jan 5, 2018 - 11:13am PT
Let's see......Orange Skeezer scrambles his minions for a mass book burning?? Too late, the noose only tightens. :) Bought my copy today!

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 5, 2018 - 01:09pm PT
Cosmic has already burned his autographed copy...
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
Wake me up when the nightmare is over please.

Trump is not going to be impeached. Not going to happen, it should but won't if Congress is controlled by the Republicans. I can only hope he sees out his term without causing any more damage to domestic, foreign and environmental policies.

And the scary thing is, he could be re-elected.

He will never resign, his ego is too big for that, and Mueller will probably get shot down (figuratively), some people may burn, but not Trump. He may be an idiot savant but he is sneaky.

He is not going to go, as much as we would like it. Trump is there and he is covering his rear end, he is not as stupid as we think or hope. He may be a sociopath, but then sociopaths can actually be very smart people, not that Trump is smart, but he does seem to know how to play the game. But that smirk of his, I have never hit anybody in my life, never, but I'd like to punch that face. Sigh...

But more troubling, is that his base does not care. During the campaign when he said he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and his supporters wouldn't care... He could go on Reality TV and roast kittens or cook puppies in a microwave, and his supporters would cheer him on. Sick.

Trump has gotten his base, his supporters, to think that the establishment and media is against him, and hence them. So they close up shop. By the way, Fake News is a term from the early 1900s (see Yellow Press), Trump has just hijacked it and popularized it for his own purposes.

I only hope he is not assassinated, the last thing we need is a nutcase martyr, and you know his base would make it so. St Donald. A lot of conspiracy theories out there. Why just yesterday, Elvis and Donald were seen having lunch, hah hah. It is a crazy world.

Wake me when it stops spinning.

My two cents from the outside looking in.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 5, 2018 - 03:32pm PT
It’s easy to despair, Patrick.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2018 - 04:02pm PT
Dirtbag, my despair is not for myself. I live abroad, this year I get my Irish citizenship, I will still retain my US citizenship (as I have boringly mentioned before my father's family has been in America since 1640).

My despair is not for me as Trump's domestic nightmares will have little affect on me. I am selfish in that way. I could not care, but I do.

I despair for those people in the US who will feel the burden of his policies, the "underclass", the working class, the middle class, the average person. Some may receive a (fading) halo in the short-term, but only the very wealthy will wear a shining halo in the long term.

Trump is enriching himself. It is no secret. The facts are there. The emoluments to begin with. He claims the new tax bill/regime will hurt him. Pull the other leg, please.

Most of us on this forum know this.

My despair is what may happen globally, with the US foreign policy in disarray. We have two first grade nut cases exchanging infantile insults.

Only in America? No this is the world, the planet, earth.

It almost make me laugh… but it is not that funny.

dirtbag

climber
Jan 5, 2018 - 04:36pm PT
Yep—I hear ya, man.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Jan 5, 2018 - 07:31pm PT
Patrick, drink less - think more!
Trump is not a problem.
Trump is a symptom.
American people are the problem.

Do you really expect more peace and more cooperation under next Democratic president? I do not.
Polarization will be even greater under the next Republucan president.

When exactly do you want to get awakened?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 5, 2018 - 08:11pm PT
юроч, well put. Democrats kicked the N Korean can down the road ad nauseum. Obama never did a thing in Africa, didn’t get us out of Afghanistan like he promised, and signed a lame deal with Iran. Yes, stoopid Americans get what they deserve. I would move to Norway or Suisse but The Wife is too tied to her family.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Jan 5, 2018 - 08:22pm PT
Good observation Yury. Ironically, Michael Moore nailed it before the election when he said:

"People are upset. They're angry at the system and they see Trump — not so much that they agree with him — but they see him as the human Molotov cocktail that they get to toss into the system with Brexit and blow it up, send a message,"
dirtbag

climber
Jan 5, 2018 - 08:26pm PT
Trump is not a problem.
Trump is a symptom.

No—he’s both.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 5, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
he is not as stupid as we think or hope. He may be a sociopath, but then sociopaths can actually be very smart people, not that Trump is smart, but he does seem to know how to play the game. But that smirk of his, I have never hit anybo

which is it, sheesh
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 5, 2018 - 10:18pm PT
Another example of Trump voter gullibility.



https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/alinsky.asp
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 5, 2018 - 11:22pm PT
Of course, Cosmic won't believe he is once again posting rightwing lies, since he enjoys posting rightwing lies.

From Snopes.com

A supposed list of Saul Alinsky's rules for 'How to Create a Social State' wasn't written by him at all.


https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/alinsky.asp
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 6, 2018 - 02:14am PT
Yury, do you think I am that stupid? Of course Trump is a symptom, but he has also become part of the problem, big time.

You seem intelligent, so you must realize that.

BTW

Patrick, drink less - think more!

Thanks for the insult, but you are wrong.

which is it, sheesh

10b4me, why do you think I called him an idiot savant?

Of course, that is really not the proper term for him, but it will suffice in lieu of a better more accurate description.

He may be incompetent in many ways - business (bankruptcies, lawsuits), empathy (lack of, typical of a sociopath or psychopath), articulation, class (lack of), and other things - but he is good at marketing, branding and being a demagogue.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jan 6, 2018 - 09:02am PT
He’s Your Champion Now

It’s not just the lack of humility
Or the lewd snarky insults
Or lack of compassion
Or disdain for humanity
Say nothing of a total reckless disregard
For the natural world
That marks the man-child
This Groper in Chief
Who’s been placed at the head
Of our nuclear power

For this emperor sporting invisible clothes
Half America’s told themselves
There’s nothing to see here
Yet he’s been stewarded on
Erasing all traces
Of every trace of national integrity

All those who’ve supported him
Now have their champion
Their bully thug a-hole
To lead all the lesser bully thug a-holes
Representing the deplorables
The spiritually misguided
And angry vindictives

Their champion resides
Flips the world on it’s head
Praise be to he
Little hands and small mind
With that massive behind

Playing tit for tat
With the world on a string
He can’t find many words
Yet he knows how to sing
To the hearts of the many
Who believe like they’re told
That they’ve lost everything

Behold the great trumpeter
With his minuscule horn
Braggadocio and deception
He’s honed to a tee
From the day he was born

He’s your champion now
Don’t wait for history
And certainly don’t waste time
Reading history at all
He’s your champion now
And like all of his body snatched
Voters and motorboaters
He’s taken it on a dare
And has answered the call

-bushman
01/06/2018
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 6, 2018 - 09:36am PT
Just when you thought SNL was running out of material the grabber with tiny hands comes out and claims he's a very stable genius...
dirtbag

climber
Jan 6, 2018 - 09:53am PT
^^^Whew...that’s resssuring. I was worried.^^^
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jan 7, 2018 - 06:56am PT
I’m sorry but poetry only goes so far in expressing opinions, sometimes.

The reality, as I see it, is that the United States is susceptible of going through something similar to what Nazi Germany went through leading up to and during World War II. History doesn’t repeat itself precisely, but mimics itself in variating loops.

Fact is, most people don’t believe it is possible, which is severely troubling. The shocking part is that out those of us who do believe it, we are not more alarmed or willing to do more about it.

I would be satisfied to see Donald Trump impeached, tried, and imprisoned for treason, along with Mike Pence, and Paul Ryan. The sooner the better. The likely hood of this not happening is greater than the likelihood of Donald Trump, and his followers, becoming responsible for the apocalyptic and human species ending event that no one will be left to call World War III.

Americans are too spoiled and ‘had’ (as Werner might put it) to see what has really happened to us. We have now been subjugated on a whole new level. This is the new level of ‘numb’ which I believe we are all suffering.

-bushman
WBraun

climber
Jan 7, 2018 - 08:26am PT
The criminals run the show.

There will be no impeachment until they have another criminal puppet to take his place.

You people are unbelievably st00pid ......
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 7, 2018 - 08:33am PT
All these comparisons of Trump to Hitler and present day America to Nazi Germany come across as leftwing paranoia. Seriously. Reminds me of the often repeated claim of Dubya imposing martial law. It's nonsense.

I don't like Trump. He's unsuitable for the job in so many ways. And he's doing a swell job of executive overreach. We can thank the last POTUS for dramatically extending that authority. But all this talk of Trump rising to supreme leader. It ain't gonna happen.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 7, 2018 - 08:39am PT
Skip...You have a good point just as Bushman ( Tim ? ) does...But if the " very stable genius " gets " rocket boy " to launch a nuke " we'll all be goose stepping thru the nuclear fallout...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 7, 2018 - 08:53am PT
Bushman as much as I despise Paul Ryan and his politics I guess I don't see impeachment in the cards. Under what legal definition of treason to you think impeachment is warranted?

Obstruction of justice, but I digress.
I heard an interview with Arizona senator Jeff Flake. He said he doesn't see trump being impeached, but he thinks trump might not seek a second term.
Flake said, as of today, he will not run for president.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 7, 2018 - 09:48am PT
We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again.

― Nathanael Greene


Lituya

Mountain climber
Jan 7, 2018 - 10:10am PT
Re Wade and his desire to resurrect the guillotine. Please, Wade, tell me how that's going to work. Would love to hear your plan for revolution. Are you in charge? or do you have help? And who's gonna get whacked? Conservatives? (You know, the ones with all the guns.) :rolleyes:
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 7, 2018 - 10:15am PT
There may be no impeachment but that's only due to the majority republican congress weasels putting their financial interest before the good of the American people...Nothing new here...
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jan 7, 2018 - 10:21am PT
Edward

Trump is a long ways from a Hitler, but it's not from a lack of desire or a lack of trying. We still, mostly, have the rule of law in this country.

But Trump has, and is, doing tremendous damage to our institutions and political norms.

Hitler became chancellor within the bounds of German law. One of the most educated and advanced societies of its day.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 7, 2018 - 02:42pm PT
All these comparisons of Trump to Hitler and present day America to Nazi Germany come across as leftwing paranoia. Seriously. Reminds me of the often repeated claim of Dubya imposing martial law. It's nonsense.

Or Obama is going to seize all the guns. Or Obama is going to impose Sharia Law. Or Obama was born in Kenya. Or Obama is a muslim.

Lots of BS, just so people don't start thinking about more important matters.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jan 7, 2018 - 03:09pm PT
Bushman as much as I despise Paul Ryan and his politics I guess I don't see impeachment in the cards. Under what legal definition of treason to you think impeachment is warranted?

Impeachment would be warranted for violating the emollients clause, but more probable if obstruction of justice is proven by the Mueller Investigation. A trial for treason could be likely, but only for proof of collusion, and only after removal from office by impeachment first.

Whether Congress has the courage, the integrity, or the stomach for that is another question.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 7, 2018 - 03:14pm PT
Congress had the stomach to impeach Clinton for lying about cuddling with Lewinsky and that was a very serious matter...
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jan 7, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
If Russia had an ounce of dirt on DJT this would not have happened:

"Trump administration approves lethal arms sales to Ukraine"

This might be just a bone tossed to Congress and the pubic to show that Trump’s administration is legit. If so, it’s an obvious ruse.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 7, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
Considering Putin made a puppet out of our president, I'd say it's safe to assume he has a plan to infiltrate the Ukrainian Government making those Putin's weapon's.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 7, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
Poo in a tin has lots of petroleum to sell...This can keep him number 1 boss in Russia and maybe world... Enter Tillerson/Exxon and the very stable genius formerly known as tiny hands...there is no collusion...repeat over and over...
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 7, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
I'm sure Sir Tweets-a-lot got Put-ins blessing before making the sham sale.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 7, 2018 - 09:40pm PT
Enter Oprah.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:01am PT
Are we ready for another celebrity president, or did Trump put an end to celebrity presidents?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:04am PT
Enter Oprah.

No
F

climber
away from the ground
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:44am PT
Oprah? Really?
Circuses aren’t doing the trick, so now we’re going to try bread? Hasn’t this been tried already?
The end is near.

Too bad the American proletariat isn’t more Swiss and less NASCAR.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:52am PT
Run, Oprah, run. (and do a few push-ups, too)
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 8, 2018 - 09:20am PT
I'd take Oprah over Trump, any day.

I'd prefer her over Hillary or Elizabeth Warren... or any of the Republicans who ran on 2016.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 8, 2018 - 09:28am PT
Why ‘executive time’ is a particularly bleak scoop about Trump

A report indicates President Trump has significantly curtailed his official schedule — to the point where his first meeting is often held at 11 a.m.


Now we're getting our money's worth!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 8, 2018 - 09:43am PT
Oprah's as opposite from Trumpah as it can get.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 8, 2018 - 10:18am PT
Trump's work day begins at 11:00 ? Unlike the slacker Obama , Trump's probably up at 6:00 re-arranging the White House sandbox with his Tonka Toys and then onto the Play Doh work station at 9:00... Cartoons at 10:00... Grueling work pace...
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 8, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
I like Oprah well enough, but I wouldn’t want the likes of Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, Jenny McCarthy, Suzanne Somers, or Rhonda Byrne, who she promoted on her show, as cabinet officials.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 8, 2018 - 02:06pm PT





Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 8, 2018 - 02:21pm PT

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/8/16865532/2016-presidential-election-map-xkcd
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2018 - 04:41pm PT
I would reply with witty comment, so I think, but it is late.

I have not been drinking, but if I was to reply, some who my disagree with me would claim I am drinking, which tonight, is not the case (the case of whiskey went yesterday, I wish).

So I write something another Supertopian does not like, and I am accused I have been drinking? Hmmm… should I care?

Bannon is an ass, sycophant, now kissing to his lord. Trump and Bannon deserve each other.

On another note, Trump is not the idiot some of us thought. He is no genius, as he claims, but he, or his handlers, and I think it is he, he may have some smarts. After all, he is POTUS, by hook or by crook.

Do not underestimate Trump. At the bus stop today I chatted with Bernadette, two years my junior and I have know for some time, we chat (not attraction), she is beginning to like Trump after despising him. Perhaps the first Irish person I have met that likes Trump. She feels sorry for him, "he has a tough job", she says. "And he is being picked on."

"Bernie (Bernadette), I… okay if you believe that."

Why argue? Like my sister-in-law in California (my late brother's wife), like a sister to me for some 45 years years, a die-hard Trumpite, I love her like a sister, I avoid politics with her, and her sons, the elder, Benjamin, my godson, two tours of duty with the Marines in Afghanistan (under fire as a point man, fact, "Uncle Patrick, the bullets do not sound the same as in the movies), now a junior at UC Davis (civil engineering, like my dad), he is apolitical, just wants to graduate and married his high school sweetheart and has two kids. (And they are very happy, she is a bit of a Catholic religious uh, person, and they want to home school the kids, but…) They find 'liberal' Davis a bit of a challenge (he academically, severely dyslectic and amazing, truly amazing, and she has found a lot of female/mother mates on campus {family housing} who do not care about politics. See university campuses are not that bad.)

Politics suck.

EDIT what annoys me is that, and I am only reading from stories on the BBC, New Yorker and The Atlantic, unbiased stories as far as I can tell, heaven knows what the right-wing press has to say, on many American university campuses, conservative, right-leaning students, feel ostracized. I do not know how accurate or true that is.

If so, that is not right. I am an idealist. Colleges and universities are about learning, expanding and expounding ideas, sure politics come into play, but within reason. Call me naive if you wish.

Where is the balance in America? Pendulums swing, but it could so be too easy for a pendulum to be stuck on one side if the conditions dictate it.

EDIT

"A couple of bullets whizzed by me head, I was so scared, but I gave covering fire none the less."

Why should my nephew and godson have to go through that?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 8, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
Politics do NOT suck. Politics is the alternative to "might makes right", the primary force throughout human history.

With no politics, if I want your house, your woman, your car----I take it.

Politics gives us a way (potentially) to regulate and mediate such issues, and for a community to pursue methods of accountability for actions.

NO, they do not suck, and be grateful, or you'd be writing in Russian.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2018 - 05:34pm PT
Okay Ken, I get your point. I have been around, not as a doc as you have been, but some 45 years in five countries as a writer and journalist. And zoologist, sometimes.

Politics do not NECESSARILY suck, politics are part of the fabric of human society. But I hope you get my point. And as far as I can see, stinking dirty rotten politics have taken over America. As some have said, Trump is a symptom. If people, the electorate, really believed, they would not have elected a con man, but they did (Electoral College).

But the faith in the present political system is the one on trial. Hell, you all living in America should know that more than I do. I have not lived in the US for over 22 years and since 1982, only about eight years in total.

The pulse of America I feel is not the same as many of my fellow Supertopians.


EDIT

And f*#k you any of you as#@&%es who think I write by drink. I sit here alone in a house in the sticks, I miss my partner Jennie (in a nursing home) and whether I drink or not, I write what I think. I have not had a glass tonight, but I am feisty. Tear into me if your want. I am good for a battle. Though I'd rather hit the sack. Arguing is so passé.


I write what I think.
And I think and research a lot. And cross research, and look at a variety of media, I would gamble, more than many of you do.

Because I am very smart, like, really smart. I am a 'Stable Genius". Hah hah

(Fake News is a term from the early 1900s, but Stable Genius, I think we can attribute that to The Donald, but will it enter the Oxford dictionary or lexicon?).

EDIT

And f*#k you any of you as#@&%es

I should 'knot' let some posts get to me. Yury, Reilly or Dwain Cosmicman get to me (congrats I'd imagine) , but… Yury I have little clue about, Reilly sprays more than a summer lawn sprinkler, and Dwain, back pain can make one ornery, I know.

EDIT

The above three have had their digs at me, so it is only fair in kind. And Dwain may post the photoshopped image of me on the beach with the dog, as he has done several times, how sad. `let's see it again cosmic face.
Ben Harland

Gym climber
Kenora, ON
Jan 8, 2018 - 05:51pm PT
Ken M - thanks for that perspective:) I came of age with Clinton, so I never really had to think about things quite like that -- I'm curious: if you try to categorize events where there has been a crisis of confidence in American leadership, does it go Nixon, W, Trump? When Nixon had his struggles, was it similar in severity to what's happening now?

The closest I can relate to directly is when the Czechs briefly ruled international hockey ca 2001 and I remember feeling that Canada would never come back from it.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 8, 2018 - 06:51pm PT
When Nixon had his struggles, was it similar in severity to what's happening now?

According to Hunter S. Thompson Nixon was the Apocalypse. He was in every issue of Rolling Stone covering the '72 election. It was brilliant writing. The book version is Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72, well worth reading.

"Those who fail to learn from the brutal stompings visited on them in the past are doomed to be brutally stomped in the future."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/timewarp-campaign-72-19730705

When it comes to Trump, he was way ahead of his time. He wrote this about the possibility of Nixon winning re-election:
this may be the year when we finally come face to face with ourselves

finally just lay back and say it

that we are a nation of 220 million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms at all about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable

The best thing ever written about American politics:
“At the stroke of midnight in Washington, a drooling red-eyed beast with the legs of a man and a head of a giant hyena crawls out of its bedroom window in the South Wing of the White House and leaps fifty feet down to the lawn...pauses briefly to strangle the Chow watchdog, then races off into the darkness...towards the Watergate, snarling with lust, loping through the alleys behind Pennsylvania Avenue, and trying desperately to remember which one of those four hundred identical balconies is the one outside of Martha Mitchell's apartment....Ah...Nightmares, nightmares. But I was only kidding. The President of the United States would never act that weird. At least not during football season.”

I couldn't vote in '72, but I worked for the McGovern campaign. It was small band of kids, the leader was still in college. We worked out of an old house in downtown Evansville. The only support we got from the Vanderburgh County Democratic Central Committee was a case of Double Cola. We walked the black inner city districts to get out the vote. They were behind us all the way.

When McGovern lost I was disillusioned beyond belief. It affects me to this day.

BTW, Nixon campaign committee was The Committee to Re-Elect the President. Better known as CREEP.
Ben Harland

Gym climber
Kenora, ON
Jan 8, 2018 - 07:08pm PT
So I gather you mean the present situation is "not as bad as Nixon", Gary. (I do remember some of Hunter's writing about Nixon - especially his scathing obituary:))

I confess that I have a particular interest in this: I have a $5 bet with my dad that Trump doesn't make it through his term. Admittedly, this was partly made to recoup the money I lost when I bet him that he wouldn't be elected.

We Canadians have a situation that isn't completely dissimilar. I thought of this especially when reading what the NY Times was saying about Oprah's Golden Globes speech this morning. Our leader is also a populist with very little experience in government.

To be more serious, I'm having a hard time getting a good, objective idea on how bad Trump's behaviour is (and it's certainly bad) and how it will fit in the history books.
WBraun

climber
Jan 8, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
While you poor fools have your eyes distracted on the st00pid Trumpinator all sorts of heavy sh!t is going down that your st00pid main loon media is NOT reporting.

You clueless loons will soon find out ......
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
Jaysus Gary, I birddogged for McGovern too, I was 16. I went from door to door. I was so turned off when the Eagleton matter hit. Like, Nixon had also psychiatric treatment as well prior to his election in 1968. Losing to Kennedy and then Pat Brown, did Nixon's head tricks.

And then the crap about Eagleton. It totally made me rethink politics as a young naive 16 year old.

Go eff off Werner, you have nothing to contribute to an honest discussion.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 8, 2018 - 07:40pm PT
So I gather you mean the present situation is "not as bad as Nixon", Gary.

Ben, I don't think it is any worse. Nor any better.

Werner, Trump is just another puppet that they will indulge as long as he doesn't get too far out of line. They perfected this technique with Reagan and W.

Patrick, I was 16 as well. Working for McGovern was one of the best things I ever did.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2018 - 07:51pm PT
There's Cosmic and his Go Tell It On the Mountain Christianity showing him for what he really is.

I'm sorry Dwain, but how would you feel if people inferred that you are addicted to painkillers and using pot for the buzz instead of the medicinal purpose you say? Difference being, those who might infer such a thing probably would not have publicly declared themself to be trying to live as Christ would, as you purport to be.

Is it really that hard to refrain, if you ask yourself WWJD, after reading "libtard" posts?

Can you really see Jesus, were he born in 1990, posting "Drunk-o-Meters on a discussion board? I can't.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2018 - 07:53pm PT
And back to the Trumpocalypse, people who have been "on the case" have said for some time that this is legions worse than Watergate.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:07pm PT
Are you saying Jesus Christ didn't smoke pot? How would you know? I'm not saying he did, but its impossible to be definitive on the subject. It was a medicinal plant back then as well as well as the fibers being used for many purposes.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:13pm PT
Nixon didn't have the Russians helping him throw the election..Trump did..Dwains a Jack Christian...Cut him some slack...
jogill

climber
Colorado
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:22pm PT
I am only reading from stories on the BBC, New Yorker and The Atlantic, unbiased stories as far as I can tell


I have been subscribing to the New Yorker for many years. On their daily e-mail articles they have castigated Trump relentlessly. Their approach is to belittle him, demean him, and sneer at him with virtually nothing unbiased appearing in print.

I'm not defending the Donald, but the New Yorker is hardly neutral.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:27pm PT
Are you saying Jesus Christ didn't smoke pot?

I'm saying Jesus wouldn't try to minimize another person's opinions, nor take jabs at them for having an opinion that varied from his own. We can be pretty sure that the Jesus as described in the Christian religions didn't pick on people.

Nor do I think Jesus would have nodded his head in understanding to the person who repeatedly did such a thing but used the "I'm not perfect, and will fall short" excuse for continuing behavior that Jesus had already given him the stinkeye over.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:34pm PT
Somebody's got her b!tch on tonight. 🙄
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
I'm not defending the Donald, but the New Yorker is hardly neutral.
When a President is constantly probing for weaknesses to establish an autocracy, the Free press should have the latitude to increase editorial scrutiny- the reader will
ultimately decide .

Without a critical press, who's to sound the alarm that a dictatorship is in the making? Germany knows this all to well.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jan 8, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
^^^ Tonight...?

Jesus was a reefer smoking black woman liberal snowflake. I thought that was common knowledge.
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Jan 8, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 8, 2018 - 10:07pm PT
Ken M - thanks for that perspective:) I came of age with Clinton, so I never really had to think about things quite like that -- I'm curious: if you try to categorize events where there has been a crisis of confidence in American leadership, does it go Nixon, W, Trump? When Nixon had his struggles, was it similar in severity to what's happening now?

I remember Watergate well. I watched the hearings daily, and found it captivating.

I would actually rate this situation worse than Nixon, although to be fair, we are only part way through this. In Nixon's case, there were competent people around him---that is not so clear this time.

In W's case, he led this country into a bogus war that we are still in, that cost thousands of American service lives, and probably hundreds of thousands of Middle Eastern lives, and destabilized the entire region, this is not small stuff.

I think it will take a few decades for this to clarify itself....but they are all very bad.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 8, 2018 - 10:22pm PT
I'm not defending the Donald, but the New Yorker is hardly neutral.

I'm not so sure your example demonstrates that, if one agrees that a President should be accountable for their actions.


I'm reminded of what I learned in the case of Sam Donaldson, a reporter at the White House during and after Nixon. He was a bulldog, asking relentless questions, and being somewhat obnoxious. It was clear that he was a Democrat, doing the business of his party.

years later, he was a regular panelist on "This Week", and I was a regular watcher. One week, he did not appear, due to a conflict. He had one of his best friends appear in his place.............Rush Limbaugh. I couldn't believe it. All those years, he was just doing his job, it didn't matter to which party the President belonged
Heyzeus

climber
Hollywood,Ca
Jan 8, 2018 - 10:28pm PT
Nixon didn't have the Russians helping him throw the election

I thought it was recently revealed that Nixon did something similar. He worked behind the scenes with the S. Vietnamese government to mess up Johnson's peace talks in '68 to sway the election, and it worked. Johnson had the goods on him but didn't come out with it.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Jan 8, 2018 - 10:28pm PT
Let's just say that the New Yorker knows Donald Trump better than us, having had to put up with him for 40 years.

A main difference between Nixon and Trump is that Nixon was a professional politician, as were most of his aides and appointees. They were competent, however sleazy, and well knew that what they were doing was unconstitutional. Trump and many of his circle don't know right from wrong, or legal from illegal.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Jan 8, 2018 - 11:52pm PT
Trump and many of his circle don't know right from wrong, or legal from illegal.

Exactly, they're a bunch of crooks. You just can't engage in a constructive rational dialog with people like that. We've seen signs in Fire and Fury that they're capable of falling out (like thieves have a habit of doing) and going after each other. Such traits are to be strongly encouraged.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2018 - 02:42am PT
John, I was referring to how conservative students feel on campuses. From what I have read (and seen a video on the BBC interviewing conservative students), they feel ostracized. But then it just may be a small minority making a loud noise, I do not know.

As far as Trump is concerned, I read all sorts of media, left, right and center.

And yes, the New Yorker is not neutral, I get their email feeds. But in my opinion, their articles make more sense than Trump does.

EDIT
Perhaps I should not have written that Dwain/Cosmic bugs me, not so much as he is a little immature brat but he bugs me in the way that one gets annoyed by stepping in dog sh#t. Ewww.

That reminds me of an old saying (actually I just made it up): A wise man knows where his next step is… and it is not in dog poo.

Call me an idiot, because I have stepped in dog feces more than once. Ewww
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2018 - 04:56am PT
"go forth in love and peace — be kind to dogs — and vote Democratic".
Tom Eagleton

I like the dogs bit.

I do not mind making a fool of myself on this forum, I certainly have done it enough. Despite my grievances with life, I am quite happy. I wish Jennie was back in my life, but dementia is dementia though I will find way to fight that dreadful condition, but as my landlord says: "You are comfortable Patrick, are you not?"

Yes I am. I struggle like most, I chase my financial tail like most, but I do count my blessings. I think of all those less fortunate, and I reflect.

The Taco Stand is perhaps the only (okay HYS on BBC football forum, I occasionally dip my toe in) forum I express myself in on a 'regular' basis. I find that most Supertopians are interesting people to engage with.

I wish I could climb more, I see some of the TRs, especially Jim's (Donini) and I wonder, what the hell am I doing in a place with no climbing, sort of like Cleveland, Roger, hah hah (at least you have my mom's West Virginia next to you). But I am where I am. Once one novel sells, the rest will fall like dominoes, and then I am in the money. Not.

I like you all, with some exceptions, may the Taco Stand… stand.

There is some rock in Wexford, I think the geologists have found it.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 9, 2018 - 07:17am PT
John, I was referring to how conservative students feel on campuses. From what I have read (and seen a video on the BBC interviewing conservative students), they feel ostracized.

Of course they feel ostracized. Nobody can stand those little brown-nosing Young Republicans
.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 9, 2018 - 07:40am PT
So I gather you mean the present situation is "not as bad as Nixon"

I will answer this as well. 1972 was the first time I voted.
I think the situation today is worse than it was during the nixon presidency.
At least nixon wasn't screwing over the country like trump is.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2018 - 07:50am PT
Gary, I was wondering about students like my nephew, not some privileged brats. My nephew Benjamin is privileged, in that he was diagnosed severely dyslectic at six, "never to be able to read" so Mac and Kathleen were told, but Kathleen took on the Napa school district and got them to change. Kudos to her.

He did two tours in Afghanistan with the Marines (under fire, fact), and he is now a junior in civil engineering at UC Davis. Married very happily with his high school sweetheart with two kids (Millie and Bruce) . But Kathleen (who is a diehard Trumpite, sigh, but she is my sister in life) she says Benjamin feels a bit of an outsider at Davis, being a conservative, and BTW he is not really a conservative he is very open minded, he just sorts of leans to the right. And I love him.

My point is, colleges and universities should be about open minds. Sigh…

EDIT

And I have asked him, what was Afghanistan like? He said it was horrible and that he never did anything wrong, he was just there. So, I trust him, I trust he did not pee on Taliban corpses, he is a good kid, he would not be swayed by his "comrades in arms".

Why do we ask our children (well, I have none, I think) to go to war? WW2 was worthwhile, in the scheme of things. But now?

Despite my learning, education and experience, I still scratch my head.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 9, 2018 - 08:50am PT


http://www.newsweek.com/trump-fire-and-fury-smart-genius-obama-774169
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jan 9, 2018 - 10:34am PT
Comparing Presidents Trump and Nixon is hysterical in the literal sense. Give me a break. Might as well compare Presidents Obama and Washington.

DMT

Really DMT?

There is plenty that is completely different including the norms of the day.

But what is so hysterical about comparing Archibald Cox with Mueller, the investigation of possible coverup/obstruction, and the possibility of impeachment (or resignation because of)? And how the checks and balances for which this country is so famous actually work or not?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 9, 2018 - 12:55pm PT
Seentor Feinstein has released some transcripts of a State Judiciary Committee of U.S. Senate interview, with a Glen Simpson, that have got people excited all over Twitter.



Here is link to the transcript:
https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/3/9/3974a291-ddbe-4525-9ed1-22bab43c05ae/934A3562824CACA7BB4D915E97709D2F.simpson-transcript-redacted.pdf
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 9, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
"Their approach is to belittle him, demean him, and sneer at him with virtually nothing unbiased appearing in print."

"I'm not defending the Donald, but the New Yorker is hardly neutral. "

A completely neutral position would be to add up the following by trump:
Total number of lies told by trump.
Total false claims of fake news ( a term that accurately refers 90% to quacks like trump).
Total of False promises by trump.
Total False credit & praises for himself.
Total Idiotic insults told by trump.
Total number of times his own people have admitted he is unqualified or incompetent.
Total acts of fraud, non-payment, and declarations of bankruptcy.
Total associations with major criminals.
Total number of lawsuits against and by trump, and number lost or settled.
Total Days spent golfing and twitting by trump.

Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 9, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
Assange played a role in helping get trump elected. He shares trump's disease of malignant narcissism. I would not expect any effort by him to help improve government, except incidentally.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 9, 2018 - 06:44pm PT
Assange is about to get shown the door, and the moment he does, I have the feeling he's going to disappear from the radar for a long, long, while. Who gets to him first is the question.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 9, 2018 - 07:35pm PT
Thanks Hapi for the article...Geeze Loueeze....
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 9, 2018 - 09:13pm PT
How?

By only leaking content that damaged the Dems and timed for the Dem convention.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/us/politics/spy-agency-consensus-grows-that-russia-hacked-dnc.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/us/politics/assange-timed-wikileaks-release-of-democratic-emails-to-harm-hillary-clinton.html
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 9, 2018 - 09:27pm PT
Bannon is out at Breitbart.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 9, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
Speaking of, I think my snake just ate a rat!
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Jan 9, 2018 - 09:55pm PT
Stay tuned for more incidents of cannibalism to come. No honor among thieves.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 10, 2018 - 05:52am PT
F*#k Julian assange. Despite all his huffing he’s just a wanna be kingmaker like anyone else.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 10, 2018 - 07:31am PT
To a degree I get that, dmt, although a lot of the info he released was likely obtained illegally from nefarious sources. But the Assange worship in the past was very misguided, and selective release of info, which is what he did, is manipulative and damaging.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 10, 2018 - 07:33am PT
Speaking of, I think my snake just ate a rat!

Sure he or she didn't just ball it up and hide it behind the water dish?

Congratulations - I know you were concerned.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 10, 2018 - 08:00am PT
why hasn't the #metoo movement gone after Assange? He is assumed to be guilty of rape.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2018 - 11:23am PT
WaPost

Purged from voting rolls while deployed, Ohio vet demands answers

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2018 - 11:36am PT
Trump lauded delivery of F-52s to Norway.

The planes only exist in ‘Call of Duty.’
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 11, 2018 - 12:11pm PT
I didn't vote for either scumbag, but I don't understand the hate towards Assange. He has a better track record than every other media outlet: it's flawless. He has also exposed a lot of the politics behind corporations like Google:
https://wikileaks.org/google-is-not-what-it-seems/

Assange has been courages and he has paid heavily for it. Regardless of whatever politics you may THINK he espouses (he seems quite liberal in the traditional sense of the word, and gives lip service to some anti-fascist organizations), he earns respect by fighting courageously for the truth and speaking it to power.
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 11, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
why hasn't the #metoo movement gone after Assange? He is assumed to be guilty of rape.

Maybe because he's innocent?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 11, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
Trump is turning the White House into a shithole.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 20, 2018 - 12:39am PT
A Putin win

1 year in; a grubbyment shut it down ?
yer fired,
there is no reason to celebrate,
unless this was the plan from the quid pro?
The shjthole comment? that was a way to distract, a common occurrence.
govern by failurez to lead. govern'd by greedy foolz,

we are watching the demise of the democratic experiment that was once the shinning light of hope in the world

Putin winz
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2018 - 04:52am PT
^^^
I agree Gnome

I, along with others, have always said that Putin must be laughing. To iterate, regardless if there was collusion with Trump's campaign and the Russians, or if there was not, Trump's actions (and those of his administration) still play into the hands of Putin.

The polarization of the US, the divisions, is what the Kremlin desires, and why not in their eyes, as they feel the US was a major player in the breakup of the Soviet Union.

Some may argue that the actions of anti-Trumpers also play a part in the polarization, and there is a point there, but in the overall picture, in my view, such actions are reactions to an authoritarian agenda by Trump and company.

I have nothing against Russians but I do against Putin and his agenda to destabilize the US. The Kremlin is not a friend of the US, this has been pointed out by numerous "experts" it the field of foreign policy, on both sides of the left-right "divide".

A return to the Cold War is not desirable, to be on better terms with Russian and China, to work together is desirable, but it is not going to happen, not in the short term, as those two regimes are not democratic, that said, is the US turning away from democracy?

How much Trump has benefitted from it, is to to be seen. He certainly has benefitted from financial help from Russian financial sources. Look it up.
WBraun

climber
Jan 20, 2018 - 08:17am PT
Let's face it.

Most of you are just plain brainwashed idiots by the US propaganda machine spewing its daily horesh!t into your tiny brains ......
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2018 - 03:47am PT
At least some of us have brains, even if they are tiny.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Jan 21, 2018 - 03:00pm PT
Patrick Sawyer:
The Kremlin is not a friend of the US, this has been pointed out by numerous "experts" it the field of foreign policy, on both sides of the left-right "divide".
Patrick, you make so many unsubstantiated proclamations, that I do not have time to comment on all of them.
My only comment is about Kremlin being an enemy of the US.

Of course, Russia is an enemy of the US.
Let’s take a look how this happened.

After capitalist revolution of 1991 leadership of Russia (Gorbachev etc.) has fallen in love with the US and has showered US with expensive gifts.
Let me remind you about two of them ($10 billon plus each):
1. Transfer of 500 tons of highly enriched uranium from Russia to US.
2. Transfer of know-how of long term space flights.
Prior to start of cooperation with Russia, longest US space flight was 84 days vs. about a year for Russia. Without such help US would have spent a lot of time and money to acquire this knowledge on their own.

US government rejected all such advances and decided that Russia should be an enemy.
US government broken a promise not to advance US/NATO troops into Eastern Europe and started creating military bases there.
The latest hostile steps were US sponsored and managed Ukrainian coup of 2014 and subsequent sanctions.

So US government decided that Russia should be an enemy.
They just did not bother to explain why they made this decision.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 21, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
^^ Yuri, thanks for sharing that perspective. I'll have to set aside some time to research it more.

It's a good segue to what I came here to post about. If what Yuri is sharing is accurate, it has echoes of how the Allied Forces treated Germany at the end of WW1. My son is studying WW1 history right now (literally as I write this), and learning about the Treaty of Versailles, and he just had a light bulb moment: "Oh, Hitler could rise because the other countries were so harsh to Germany!" I offered something like "yeah, Hitler appealed to Germans wanting to get the boot off their faces, to start feeling good about themselves again."

Within the last hour I had regurgitated "those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it". So after this exchange about Germany, I made the obvious current events mental association and said it out loud:
"Make America Great Again!"


My son then said, "that's what my history teacher said last year, and he got fired." I apparently was not tuned in at that moment. Here's what I just found:
https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/11/22/a-40-year-teaching-career-ending-after-trumphitler-comparison-in-mountain-view/

So my son was in his class when this all went down. At a time when history teachers would of course draw parallels between past occurrences, the circumstances leading up to them, and current events that have obvious similarities... a teacher is fired for helping children to think in a critical fashion and identify commonalities in methods and circumstances? How far screwed up is our society by partisan politics?

I'm talking to my son just now about this teacher. Apparently he was a good teacher, didn't normally talk politics. But every Friday he had a section on current affairs for the kids to discuss and he typically didn't take any sides or try to influence the conversations. As for the issues that got the teacher fired... here are my sons words:

"He didn't say Trump's and Hitler's ideas were the same... just that the methods that Trump used to rile people up were similar to the methods that Hitler used to rile people up. They would focus on people in some state of shock or desperation, and give them a false sense of nationalism as a way of gaining support. And that's why so many people believe him. People don't listen to what Trump says so much, they just focus on the Make America Great Again. They just want to be part of something."

And so there you go. An early casualty in the current assault on the intellectuals that will surely ramp up as time progresses. Apparently the teacher was reinstated because of public outrage, but that was his last year (don't know if it was retirement or asked to not come back, etc.)


TLDR: My son's history teacher was fired last year for introducing ideas that some people find uncomfortable for partisan reasons but a rational person can hardly deny; he was reinstated because of public outrage; he quietly disappeared at the end of the year.

Edit: Correction - "paid administrative leave" not fired - thanks EdT. And the reinstatement was "after school kids deemed safe", time the school had received much external feedback. I unintentionally sensationalized a bit from lack of research and taking my son's simplified version (from the perspective of a kid in the teacher's class) at face value.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 21, 2018 - 04:55pm PT
The teacher wasn't fired. He was on paid leave. He missed an hour of classroom time.

Definitely looks like he was mistreated. But sensationalizing the story is counterproductive.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 21, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
This teacher was the most dangerous sort of person to Edward t:

Navarro is an expert on the Holocaust and has studied at the International Center for the Study of the Holocaust in Jerusalem. The 65-year-old was also named a Mandel Fellow for the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C.

An actual expert.

Also, unlike Edward, this teacher has an actual sense of professionalism, and understands, as does Edward, that because there was not a clear, public clearance of his actions, he remains professionally smeared. That was the goal---smear an expert who points out the historically obvious, and teach all similar experts what they can expect coming at them.

And what does the public lose, a highly proficient teacher.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 02:51am PT
Yury, I see your point. But you know dang well it takes two to tango. It is not just a one-sided debate or issue. Both sides have policies and have committed actions that the other side reacts to. You must know that.

So are you trying to tell me that The Kremlin is the friend of the US? Or that the US is a friend of the Kremlin? To iterate, a return to any sort of Cold War is not desirable, but there are elements on both sides who desire it, for several reasons, you know that as well as I do, probably more.

And I do not make that many unsubstantiated claims, but then I admit I am no expert on US-Russian relations, as you seem to be. I have no ties to Russia, but I do not like Putin. Nor Trump. Nor Clinton, etc etc etc.

I do try and keep up with international relations and foreign policy, if I sound one-sided, I do not mean to be, I try to be objective. But I believe I am stating the obvious, Russia and the US are not friends.
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Jan 22, 2018 - 09:11am PT
Patrick Sawyer:
Yury, I see your point. But you know dang well it takes two to tango. It is not just a one-sided debate or issue. Both sides have policies and have committed actions that the other side reacts to.
I agree.
It's also Putin's fault.
Instead of just surrendering he is trying to resist.

So are you trying to tell me that The Kremlin is the friend of the US?
No, I wrote that Kremlin was a friend of the US around 1991.

Or that the US is a friend of the Kremlin?
No, the US never was a friend of USSR/Russia.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 22, 2018 - 09:53am PT
Good editorial in today’s LA Times by Eugene Rumer - senior fellow at Carnegie Endowment
for International Peace.

“It’s unclear, then, if Russia is even worth obsessing about in this manner. If Clinton could not
prevail over a vulgar, dishonest, misogynist, ignorant political novice running a campaign full
of racism, xenophobia and patently unrealizable promises, all of which were widely covered by
the media throughout 2016, perhaps the Russian meddling really didn’t make that much of a
difference on the election outcome.”
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 22, 2018 - 10:06am PT
That's some pretty stupid speculation

I'm sure Mueller has a very different opinion

Quid Pro Quo Russian sanctions are some serious allegations for getting help from a foreign country
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 22, 2018 - 10:13am PT
That's some pretty stupid speculation

Yeah, the Carnegie Endowment hires nuthin but retards.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 22, 2018 - 10:36am PT
WaPost

Trump is tearing up fracking rules on federal lands. Be alarmed.

----Editorial Board

So here's a thought: what would be the impact of contamination of the Central Valley groundwater with chemicals that were dangerous/noxious, from uphill fracking activity on federal lands?

Destruction of the breadbasket of the United States? What would be the effect on the State? The Country?

Toss the dice and see what happens?

I speak as a person who lives over one of the largest groundwater aquifers in the US, contaminated and unusable due to contamination by federally contracted aerospace industries of the 40's-50's-60's, here in the San Fernando Valley.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 22, 2018 - 10:39am PT
So are you trying to tell me that The Kremlin is the friend of the US?
No, I wrote that Kremlin was a friend of the US around 1991.

I don't think so, but there were possibilities, and I think we squandered them. I think that happened because of neocons on BOTH sides, who still maintained the Cold War mentality (and there are a lot of those left).


Opportunities arise, and those in charge have to be prepared to act on them. We did have an opportunity, and we let it pass to bring us to where we are.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 22, 2018 - 10:51am PT
The BS non-stop propaganda against Hillary tipped the scales
and that was done with the help of RUSSIA

They were calling Hillary worse than Hitler, she was a baby killer and hated puppies, pure lies
she gave Russia Uranium, she had a private e-mail server which were high crimes according to the Cultists

the stuff they did before the election tipped the scales, not the truth about Hillary or Trump

The Russian's stole the DNC e-mails, they worked with Trump and against the Dems and Hillary, they worked to strip voters from the voter rolls, the gave the NRA money for the election, who knows how much Russian money was pocketed to help Trump win
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 22, 2018 - 11:37am PT
Comey's ill-timed release surely didn't help Hillary...Can't wait to see what Muellar has to say...
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 01:43pm PT
Yury, perhaps I am mistaken, but you almost sound like a Putin/Kremlin apologist.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 22, 2018 - 01:44pm PT
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 02:49pm PT
And Yury, I do my homework, but sometimes I speculate on forums (this is about the only forum I waste my time on, but I have fun doing it).

Despite one arse wipe on this forum who wants to take a swipe at me all the time, just some turd in California who lives on welfare and does not pay taxes, and begs from people, most Supertopians are good people.

I cannot help but speculate that with an handle like Yury, you may have some Russian influence, but then for a while I was posting as Vlad (I had my reasons, right or wrong, and I came clean, and I did not fool most people on this forum, I knew I wouldn't) and Vlad in not exactly an Anglo-American name, is it.

Dude, some 45 years in five countries, living and working as a journalist (and zoologist by avocation), interviewing the likes of Maggie Thatcher and Tony Blair, sitting down with Bill Clinton, interviewing presidents, prime ministers, captains of industry (Richard Branson, Denis O'Brien, etc etc etc), working on nationals (papers) and TV… and I know sh#t. Just a typical fake news hack. If it was so easy.

Right. You are right, I am wrong. There, that was easy.

Yury, according to you, I have posted loads of unsubstantiated BS, and you.. I have seen errors and misinformation in what you have posted. Shall I take the time to dig and call you up on them? I do not have the inclination, but if you invite me to do so, gladly.

Are we any different?

I am having fun, no whiskey (who can afford it) and no wine, just a good time. And the forum arse wipe can go stick his head in the toilet where it belongs. Not you Yury, just some ST jerk. He knows who he is.

And I use my real name, with the exception of Vlad, and I left so many clues, people knew I was Patrick, I have used my real name since 2005 on this forum. I have nothing to hide.

And I do climb, there is just eff all rock here in Wexford, and I do miss certain places I have lived on this planet (my native California and Alaska comes to mind) where there is so much rock,it is sick.

There, my rant, my two cents and my sign off for this evening. Cheers.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 03:46pm PT
And… as much as I would love to post articles or links to what I have written (Maggie, August 1989, when I was editor of a magazine in Wembley, and others) writing this post just pisses me off the more.

I think I still have some interviews in publications I edited and worked on, with Tony Blair, Michael Howard… I still have some stuff in my physical, paper, portfolio, but…

F*#king thieves. I was moving, I had a box on the moving van, it had my laptop, the clarinet that my brothers Casey to Mac to me, academic papers and documents, financial documents, family photos, and I think some DVDs… it was in Dun Laoghaire, Clarinda Park, I only went inside my flat for about five minutes (I was moving out).

Gone. The box was gone.

Nowadays and for the past 20 or so years, I backup digitally, but not then. Who would have thought.

I was so stupid. I think these people see that somebody is moving and then they strike.

I reported it but the Gardai, but what could they do? Just advised me to be more careful next time.

Yeah, next time. Stupid me.

For years, I kick myself. If only I had done this, if only I had done that, if only. People say "get over it Patrick." But I had stuff in that box I'll never get back. Sort of like my care for Jennie, "if only…", years of being a carer, and it may have come down to, "If only". I am such a fool. Losing a box of stuff is one thing, but losing the love of my life to the system, is unforgivable.

EDIT

The flat I was moving out of was the same one that was burgled several months before… my (basement) flat was a mess, they tipped over/out both of my four-drawer filing cabinets in my office, they did not take my Mac Performa (and I had my laptop with me that day), but they took my Mamiya-Sekor 1000DTL that my mom bought for me on my 14th birthday, they did not take my US passport (but my landlord above was also burgled by the same pair - yeah the au pair next door perhaps saw them - and his US girlfriend had her passport taken, and jewelry and his Nikon he had for years).

F*#king thieves. I do not know how many of you Taco Standers have been burgled, but it is really like having your castle violated. Albeit, a small two-bedroom flat, but it was my castle. It is a shitty feeling.

EDIT

They tried crowbarring Des's (landlord) front door (the marks were there) and then came down stairs and kicked my door in, and then left out my backdoor to the garden and shimmied up the pipes to the open window in his lower bathroom (good climbers, I guess, I'll give them that much). These old Georgian houses. (the Guards - police- said that they were probably drug addicts, well, they were good climbers, hah hah).

EDIT

And can I pre-empt that turd who will probably post a bottle of whiskey with my name on it, or something like that, I have not been drinking, I cannot afford it.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
I have been on this forum since 2005. I have calculated that 46% of my life has been living and working outside of the US to date. I am studied in international relations and affairs, both at university and in life, in practice.

I try to write what I believe, and what I see. I can write some shite, hence one reason I took a "furlough" as Patrick and became Vlad, now who did I fool?

I am not insulted by childish antics of the likes of the California turd, though I admit it does bug me, but not much. But when somebody claims I post a number of unsubstantiated claims, and yet this poster has some posts of question, well, pot calling kettle black perhaps.

This forum is the one I engage in. Sometimes I cry, sometimes I laugh, sometimes I bitch, sometimes I agree, other times not. But I am a climber, always have been, always will be.


EDIT
Can I just add, I write this stuff because I live alone, in the sticks, missing my love in a nursing home. I have a great dog and a brat cat, but I get lonely. Sure the beach is about 70 meters away and I meet a lot of people, but there is no rock down here in Wexford, at least when we lived in Dalkey there was the quarry, good granite, good routes.

The Taco Stand is my relief. I have made an ass of myself on ST at times, but…


Another EDIT (I cannot stop it, ignorance knows no bliss)

And for the heavens, Yury is going to post some "facts", substantiated of course (by whom?) and the turd will post some sort of anti-irish whiskey bottle meme, as night is day.

I love it.

EDIT

Now, it is cold, by Irish standards and I just finished an article for a former editor, so I am going to get ratty, says 'Patty'.

Hey Dwain cleaner, do you even climb? I can still lead 11, scared to sh#t but I can still do it. Ice is nice, but I'd rather have it in an Irish whiskey that you are so fond of posting with stupid images.

I am in a fesity mood. Anybody can throw anything they want at me. I have not been drinking, turd from the Sierra foothills, I am just tired, and tired of the BS some on the Taco Stand has to present.

There are some great posts here, I'll name two that I have always admired, and apparently from different "political camps" if I understand it correctly.

John Stannard and John Gill. I grew up with those names, from the late 1960s to now. Sure,one was East Coast, the other a renowned boulderer. But names I know. And admire. And respect, like so many on this forum. Pat Ament, Jello, Werner (a gobshite but I like him), Tom Higgins… gosh, I could go on and name the people who have made their impact on climbing in North America (and beyond), Donini does not count, as he has done far too much for me to be beyond envious.

This is a good forum. I love it.





Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Jan 22, 2018 - 07:10pm PT
There, my rant, my two cents and my sign off for this evening. Cheers.

G'damn... if only....
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 22, 2018 - 07:28pm PT
"Frankly my dear, ..........no one really cares"
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 07:30pm PT
Yeah Russ, I know, but when have I ever been mean to you? Probably have. Not worth looking up, but...

You have over 8,000 posts on this forum, not bad.

Norton, yeah. Who gives a sh#t. Thanks for your input, like Russ, I guess you people would just as soon as hear me… nothing.

Norton you have almost 12,000, wow, all real smart and intelligent like Russ's.

Coolaboola, I can live with that.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Jan 22, 2018 - 07:44pm PT
I can still lead 11, scared to sh#t but I can still do it.

Bull f*#king sh#t.... let's see it.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 07:56pm PT
We all have our reasons what we do in life. I have learned that.

Sometime I can be judgmental, other time be judged. Some choose to eschew the granite of California, and look past that, others embrace the seemingly boundless of rock in California and the West. The limitless, in some words, of the world. But not a world without limits.

I have not tasted the world like some have, Jim Donini comes to mind, but what I do, I revel in however simple.

But I do climb, when and where I can. Norton and Russ may try and diss me, I do not care (well, I must to some degree as I mention it, but…).

I know who and what I am… imperfect.. A lot to be desired, but I have never hurt anybody.

So Russ, I guess that previous not was not my final two cents.

"If only" you wrote, well not quite yet, grasshopper.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 08:02pm PT
Bull f*#king sh#t.... let's see it.

Hah hah, okay dude, you pay and I will produce. Don't be an as#@&%e. I am hoping to make a family reunion in Washington this July, if I can afford it. If I am there, meet me at some place, Town Wall, Leavenworth, Liberty Bell, whatever, I will prove it.

I like you Russ, I like your posts, somehow I have rubbed you wrong. Well, c'est la vie.

EDIT

You do not know me, outside of what I have posted on the Taco Stand, you are too young to know me from C4, you have people who know you and what you have done, I do not, I never wanted to, I climb because I love it, one reason I left C4 in 76 ( I guess I could not cut it could I, the BS).

Call me bullshit if you want Russ, I am not going to lose any sleep.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
And anyway this has gone off topic, I started this thread because Trump is looking like a king. In more ways than one.

He still has his earnest followers. He still goes against the norms, which some people like.

He is still a moron. Which some people like.

Go figure, he has the pulse of many Americans (though not the majority).

He still ignores the Constitution (does he even know what it is, and yes I can more or less recite the body of it), and he still caters to…

…to…

his base. In case some of you do not know, the POTUS is an elected paid job whose duty is to all the people, not a select few. He is not our boss, we are his boss (yes, I live abroad, for years, but I am still an American).

So the slipping into non-politics, into climbing (well, it is a climbing forum, so…), is not what i intended this thread to be, but instead a look at the state of affairs.

We are climbers, we are humans, we have opinions.

And truth be known, I am sick and tired of you as#@&%es who try and to paint me in your own eyes. You will never paint me. Likewise.


Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 08:38pm PT
Poor snowflake Patrick. Yeah. And what are some of you?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 08:45pm PT
Dwain, I know you are having it sorts with you body. And I do wish you the best, even if I do not know you. If slagging me is a way for you to… I do not know, to have a bit of a laugh (they say laughter is the best medicine), I really do not mind at the end of the day. I slough it off, sort of.

Best wishes, I have never wished anybody ill in my life, not even Trump. (Well, maybe.)

Take care and there are back exercises, which you probably know of.

Cheers

Patrick
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 22, 2018 - 08:56pm PT
Maybe its Dwain's addiction to painkillers that has got him so huffy with you.....




Yeah - Dwain - Every time I see you post the "drunk" photos, I am going to suggest that you are an addict. What? It's "different???? How's that?





In other news, some shitstain has been arrested for making threats to come and "gun down" people at the CNN headquarters, because they make "fake news."
http://thehill.com/media/370207-man-arrested-after-threatening-to-kill-cnn-employees
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 22, 2018 - 08:57pm PT



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141114131058.htm
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
Sort of cute Dwain, but haven't you been there before with that graphic?

Listen, it is way past my bedtime, going on 5am.

I started this thread to make people sit up and take notice. Not that other threads have not had the same goal and/or purpose. I am nothing special (except in my own eyes.)

But I sit out, looking in. A different perspective than some.

Where, as a nation, is the US headed?

EDIT

And Russ, do not be so disingenuous, it does not suit you, from what little I know of you.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 22, 2018 - 09:28pm PT
If a thoracic spinal injury, not cervical in the study, can affect the brain, why not lumbar or sacral?















It would explain a lot.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 22, 2018 - 10:01pm PT
Yeah, just being in that much pain would be depressing, but clinical depression involves changes to the brain.

I used to enjoy your sense of humor.

Seeing you attacking Patrick is sad.

Even though I agree with his politics, his dramatic self-referential posting is too much. But he also seems like someone who is like an open wound in need of cauterizing.

Why pour salt. Make a funny harmless comic of one-eyed climbers or something.




Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2018 - 05:38am PT
his dramatic self-referential posting is too much. But he also seems like someone who is like an open wound in need of cauterizing.

Yeah Lennox, ain't that the truth. I am trying to deal with the crap that has happened over the past few years. Crap I brought upon myself.

I was seeing a counsellor, David, at Family Life and Services in Wexford, I consult with friends (here from the Taco Stand, people I have never met in person, just cyber friends, and climbers), I consult with a dear cousin in LA, a well-respected doctor of psychology, I run my angst by others I consider dear to me. And at the end of the day, I may be a pain in the ass.

Melodrama, that's me. I have good intentions though, but to quote my mother (and others): "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

"I am on the highway to Hell", was that Van Halen or Bon Jovi, or Little Richard? Meat Loaf? Chopin? Not Bob Dylan, I know that much. I'll look it up, good song though.

EDIT

AC/DC, funny I should have known that. My landlord has an AC/DC book among his things in the loft (I think for one of his sons, I cannot imagine Graham being an AC/DC fan, perhaps, maybe).

his dramatic self-referential posting is too much.

Well, don't read them then, nobody is twisting your arm. Would you wish me to delete my self-referential postings?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 23, 2018 - 06:07am PT
Cosmic - Did you have your back surgery?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 23, 2018 - 08:04am PT
...I've been off the pain meds fo 5 months now
because of all the new laws....

Man that pisses me off... all of this "Evil Opiates" crap spewed now 24x7.

People in legitimate pain can take boatloads of properly dosed pharma-grade opiates to ease their suffering without any danger.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 23, 2018 - 09:28am PT
It’s crazy what you have to go thru now to get some decent pain meds. All because there are
so many weak-willed loozers out there. After DR Frankenfurter effed up my recent surgery
I was at 10/10 and all he sent me home with was Norco! They made me come in just to
torture me some more and see what kind of pain I was in before they gave me only Percoset!
JEEZUS! I shoulda been on a morphine drip!
dirtbag

climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 09:28am PT
I’m sorry you are suffering.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 23, 2018 - 09:33am PT
Thanks, Dirt, don’t let it happen again, mkay?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2018 - 09:43am PT
There must be a better way. I suffer from aches and pains of injuries, accidents and stupidity. But nothing that great, some Vimovo a couple of times a week.

Dwain, despite what differences we may have in other areas and walks of life, I hope you get some help and relief. Pain is not fun, is it, unless one is a masochist, and I don't think any of us Taco Standers are that.

Then again, maybe I am wrong. Who else but a masochist could sit in a butt chair belaying somebody for hours upon end, or freeze their tootsies off in sub-zero temps while climbing, risking life and limb and frostbite to boot. Who else can take a screaming fall, and end up with just bruises and scrapes?

Masochists, the lot of us, and don't we love it.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 23, 2018 - 09:48am PT
All because there are
so many weak-willed loozers out there

There have always been people prone to addiction who will continue to abuse whatever substance is available. Nothing will ever change that.

The media is to blame for this recent anti-opiate frenzy which have left many people I know in pain for absolutely NO REASON.

How many people a day does alcohol kill? Thousands? Yet there's a super-sized liquor store on every corner. It's so absurd it makes me want to tear my hair out.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2018 - 10:04am PT
The media is to blame...

Fear, is that the true story? Why always blame the messenger, but I do know the power of the media (heck I will stick my neck out and say I probably have more experience working in the media than anybody on this forum), so your point is well taken.

In some ways, blaming the media is blaming ourselves. Hmmm.
John M

climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 10:11am PT
Have you seen a pain specialist? I had one in Fresno who specialized in addiction, so when he met me he said I was not addicted and was on the wrong pain meds. 10 minutes with him and I had the proper script. Thats what I had to do to get serious pain meds when my back was giving me fits. It might have helped that I was also seeing a well respected psychiatrist at the time. But I did not realize that he could also deal with my physical pain. The pain med doc knew my psychiatrist. So they worked together and after that my psychiatrist prescribed all my pain meds.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 23, 2018 - 10:24am PT
Fear, is that the true story? Why always blame the messenger, but I do know the power of the media

The 24x7 news cycle needs constant fodder even when there is none. So no longer are there any reporters who actually think and research. Bad human behavior gets blamed on things (opiates, weed, guns, "Muslims") rather than digging deeper to find the root of bad behavior.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 23, 2018 - 10:51am PT
John M, my bro-in-law used to head the U of Washington Pain Clinic.
Thanks, but I was mainly ventilating. Although at my worst I was hyperventilating! 😖
John M

climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 10:55am PT
Reilly... I was mainly talking to Cosmic. I figured you didn't have a pain med problem now.

When pain is going full fledged, you want pain relief right now. When its chronic, thats bad too. Been there and done both. I did a lot of work to get my back into a better place.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 23, 2018 - 10:57am PT
The CDC has just announced its new protocol for Doctors prescribing narcotics.

Cancer patients stay outside of this new regulation

while all other chronic pain patients must reduce their daily"morphine equivalent" pain medication to no more than 90 "units" a day whatever that means

this is in direct response to the do something about the overdose deaths outcry





Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 23, 2018 - 10:59am PT
Finally, someone Locked in with the answer.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2018 - 11:15am PT
"G'damn... if only..."...

LMAO!!!...

49,986 indeed. LMAO
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 11:34am PT
People were getting opioids from the doctors, going to one to another and another. Then they made the database law, which I would expect most people think is a GOOD thing, where doctors must register when prescribing patients certain drugs.

But addicts are good at "the game," and how is a doctor, really, supposed to measure pain level when the patient says they need more" to counter it?

Many, many heroin addicts made the switch when unable to get either prescribed drugs from doc, or buy on the street drugs inadvertently prescribed by doc to someone abusing the system.

Addiction is not a "week-willed, loser" condition, and a BIG part of what KEEPS people from seeking help when they find themselves in the throes is good old-fashioned shame. There ARE people reading this forum who may have become addicted and are scared, and reaching out for help becomes that much harder when their "community" blames them.

For those who insist it's a choice - I hope you thank your lucky stars for your ignorance, that you have never known the hell that addiction is. But do yourself a favor and get educated on the topic rather than obstinately clinging to a myth that was debunked decades ago.



And Cosmic, I am sorry you are in pain. I just get so up in arms when I see someone bullying another, and that's what you do to Patrick. He's an easy target, as he doesn't have the list of FA's, or the witnessed C4 antics, that insulate some people here who, if less well-known, would definitely be less highly regarded. Nobody is going to come to his defense and say they'll defend their friends to no end....like EKat did in another thread when someone made a disparaging, albeit true, comment.

So - you say you've been off the meds, and Patrick says he hasn't been drinking. Suppose I continue despite your already telling me what's what, to crack remarks about you and pain meds? Especially since, as you have said, you are suffering pain without them. Can you not see that that would be a torment you don't deserve to endure? So, why treat another in such a way? Whatsoever you do.... and all.
John M

climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 11:35am PT
Most likely the people on this forum don't fit into the norm.

At the height of my problems with neck and shoulder and lower back pain I had 3 percent body fat, weigh 173 pounds and was running 5 to 10 miles a day on mountain trails, with the occasional 20+ mile day. The running was one of the ways that I managed pain. Now, do to other health problems, my weight has sky rocketed and I am seriously out of shape, yet have less back pain. Mostly because of the physical, mental and spiritual work that I did. It took all three. Now I just have to work on healing these other chronic issues. One is fibromyalgia which is chronic muscle pain with chronic fatigue. I exercise when I can, but exercise aggravates instead of relieves this pain, and if I do too much then I can end up bed ridden. Thats one of the tricky parts of auto immune diseases. Of which I have had 3. Fibro, Crohn's, and arthritis. Its hard to imagine at my current weight that I once weighed 115 pounds, I'm 6'1", and the docs gave me less then a year to live and at that time wanted to remove most of my intestines, which was the treatment for Crohn's back in the day. The current thing that I am working on is healing PTSD. There are reports that relate PTSD to issues like Fibro. They also connect it to back pain.

The body, mind and soul are such complex things. I know I know, some of you don't believe in the soul or in God. Well, guess what... I do and have found profound relief from working to understand the soul and working to know God.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 23, 2018 - 11:52am PT
More on the now CDC required prescribed narcotic protocol -

of which I have been a part of for over 15 years now with four spine surgeries

every 30 days I have to go to my pain doc's office and bring my pills with me

so that they can be counted and the math done to insure I am taking them in compliance

in addition, every 4 months or so I have to pee in a bottle which is sent to a lab

the lab reports back if I do or do not have narcotics in my system

a lack of narcotics would show I am not taking them but instead possibly selling them

this stuff is very regulated nowadays, I have to jump through a lot of hoops

the few often wreck things for the many.....
John M

climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 11:55am PT
wow. I had no idea that it had gotten that bad. I knew it was getting bad, but wow. That sucks. I am so grateful that I was able to get off the hard pain meds.
WBraun

climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 11:59am PT
Everyone always says "believe".

Well God and soul is NOT believe, as they are absolute facts.

Modern cavemen gross material scientists and clueless atheists are totally clueless about God and soul.

Thus they are useless to the facts of God, soul, and the absolute spiritual realm ......

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2018 - 12:23pm PT
I just get so up in arms when I see someone bullying another, and that's what you do to Patrick. He's an easy target,

Thank you Happiegrrrrl for the perspective on drugs (alcohol being the worst, in moderation it's okay but still a toxin, my GP Mary and I were discussing that yesterday).

But I do not need help standing up to the rabble on the forum, as I am one of them. FAs? I have them, just never listed them (primarily along both Highway 108 and Castle Crags) as my goal as a climber was not to huff my chest. I have FAs that others claim and I do not give a flying…


The issue about drugs, meds, opioids, PAIN, is not what this thread was meant to be about, but perhaps in some perverse way it is tied with Trump, he is a pain.

I have to add, using the public phone line to the White House to promote partisan messages is a new low. But then Trump and his supporters pride themselves in lowering the bar as far as it can go.

And as far as this forum is concerned, I have always bared my soul and heart, so if such honesty, or whatever one wants to call it, comes back to bite me, so be it, I probably asked for it.

I have never and never will lose sleep over anything posted on this forum. Outside of the climbing content, it is a lark.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2018 - 12:44pm PT
Outside of the climbing content, it is a lark.

Let me rephrase that, in addition to some outstanding posts on the forum dealing with climbing, there have been some fine posts dealing with other issues. Some posts and links that I have followed that have educated me.

On the other hand, there sure is a lot of shite, some of which I contributed to. I am not a cyborg, hah hah.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Jan 23, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
I really want to see this 5.11 smack talk backed up. This is a climbing site, right?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 23, 2018 - 01:11pm PT
Well God and soul is NOT believe, as they are absolute facts.

fake news, Werner.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
I like you too, DMT. Without qualification as well. But don't ever post a video where your voice is on, unless you actually do sound just like either Jed Clampett or Andy Taylor. I just can't read your posts without hearing it in one of those voices! hahahah
dirtbag

climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 01:59pm PT
I am a firm believer that diet and exercise as being the #1 best "Cure all"...


True dat, yo.


But...


































Yer still gonna die!
Yury

Mountain climber
T.O.
Jan 23, 2018 - 05:25pm PT
Patrick Sawyer:
Yury, according to you, I have posted loads of unsubstantiated BS, and you..
Patrick, I apologize for my exaggeration.

Yury:
Patrick, you make so many unsubstantiated proclamations, that I do not have time to comment on all of them.
I was wrong when I wrote this.
You made only a few such proclamations in that post (about Kremlin, Putin and Cold War).

I will try to be more specific next time and will try to avoid unnecessary generalization.
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Jan 23, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
can't remember which pundit allowed as how the white house claim was ever so close to valid:
"the largest number of inauguration celebrants ever assembled" ... of russian assets
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 23, 2018 - 06:00pm PT
Cosmo, hang in there. You'd be better off in Canada, but I guess you gotta go with what's dealt.

I wonder if Melania knows what a huge hammer she's got. She could divorce that A-hole, get enough settlement to finance her own country, and could ghost-write a book about DT which would be off the charts. (Hey Ghost - opportunity!) She'd be wildly popular by maybe 60% of the population. And she wouldn't have to be paraded around as a trophy by a fool who is going to go down, big time. She's been awfully quiet - wonder if that has occurred to her?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2018 - 06:07pm PT
Wa Post:

Trump asked acting FBI director whom he voted for

In an Oval Office meeting, acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe told President Trump that he didn’t vote in the election, officials said. Trump also vented his anger over donations that McCabe’s wife received for her failed 2015 Virginia state Senate bid from a PAC controlled by a friend of Hillary Clinton.

So now it's ok for a person's boss to require their employee to disclose how they voted?

And it's ok to browbeat an employee because of what their spouse (legally) does? And attempt to fire them?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 23, 2018 - 07:05pm PT
For the GOP there is no right and wrong anymore. There is only covering for tRump, the worthless POS they helped make POTUS.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 07:10pm PT

So now it's ok for a person's boss to require their employee to disclose how they voted?

And it's ok to browbeat an employee because of what their spouse (legally) does? And attempt to fire them?

It's none of his God damned business.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 23, 2018 - 07:16pm PT


At twelve o'clock a meeting round the table
For a seance in the dark
With voices out of nowhere
Put on specially by the children for a lark.
Cry baby cry
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better.
So cry baby cry cry cry cry baby
Make your mother sigh.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Jan 23, 2018 - 10:52pm PT
Sure sounds like hatred and fear of immigrants and immigration is going to keep the Repugs in there a long, long time. Of course, there's always been hatred and fear of the American negro. Combine the two hatreds and you have a sure fire way to get elected and stay in office. More social and economic change, more fear and hatred. What do you want?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 24, 2018 - 07:32am PT
Sounds like Trump's tax cuts are a home run.

"Deficits don't matter."
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 24, 2018 - 07:37am PT
Sounds like Trump's tax cuts are a home run.

and some thought Nero was good for the Roman Empire.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 24, 2018 - 08:11am PT
Sounds like Trump Tax's cuts made Paul Ryan a rich man
He's the Koch Brother puppet in charge of keeping the masters happy

Paul Ryan Collected $500,000 In Koch Contributions Days After House Passed Tax Law

That’s peanuts compared with what the Koch brothers will save.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/koch-paysout-to-ryan-after-taxlaw_us_5a63ce41e4b0dc592a09697c

Just days after the House passed its version of the federal tax law slashing corporate tax rates, House Speaker Paul Ryan collected nearly $500,000 in campaign contributions from billionaire energy mogul Charles Koch and his wife, according to a recent campaign donor report.

Koch and his brother David spent millions of dollars to get the tax law passed and are spending millions more in a public relations campaign in an attempt to boost support for the law, The Wall Street Journal reported.

Koch Industries, one of the largest private corporations in the nation, operates refineries and manufactures a variety of products. The new tax law — which slices corporate tax rates from 35 percent to 21 percent, slashes estate taxes and includes a special deduction for oil and gas investors — is expected to save the Koch brothers and their businesses billions of dollars in taxes.

Just 13 days after the tax law was passed, Charles Koch and his wife, Elizabeth, donated nearly $500,000 to Ryan’s joint fundraising committee, according to a campaign finance report filed Thursday.

Five other donors, including billionaire businessmen Jeffery Hildebrand and William Parfet, each contributed $100,000 in the last quarter of 2017, according to the records.

man these Republicans are idiots, they vote for this sh#t and are happy about it
they vote to rob their own pockets and health so the rich can have more
mind boggling

We could have had Medicare for all if it wasn't for the Republican rule, they are killing us with their greed
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jan 24, 2018 - 10:19am PT


I don't care if some billionaire gets millions in tax breaks. I am going to save about $3500 in taxes this year.

What about the hundreds of thousands of employees getting $1k bonuses because of this? What about the infusion of foreign money coming into our economy instead of the constant flow out?

You guys are something else.

But one thing is true: These days there’s a lot of cross-border investment. In particular, as Steven M. Rosenthal of the Tax Policy Center notes — in a paper I found revelatory — around 35 percent of U.S. equities are now owned by foreigners, triple the level during the Reagan years.

What this means is that around 35 percent of a tax cut from an administration that proudly uses the slogan “America first” — $700 billion over the next decade — wouldn’t even go to Americans. Instead, it would be a windfall to wealthy foreigners, who would probably gain a lot more from the tax cut than U.S. workers. Oh, and it makes all that talk about allies not paying their “fair share” sound kind of silly, doesn’t it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/26/opinion/trump-taxes-wealthy-foreigners.html

So you get a $3500 savings that expires in a few years. But those cuts for the billionaires don't expire.

And of course, it won't matter if the tax cut, that mostly goes to the wealthy increases the debt by a trillion dollars or so. Nobody ever has to pay that money off, right? The republicans would never use the debt as an excuse to slash social security or medicare, or slash funding for social program or slash funding for national parks, or slash...

Hey, the R's threw the working stiffs a bone that they can chew on for a year or two. They should be thankful.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 24, 2018 - 10:49am PT
I wouldn't put much confidence in Jody's ability to make a fair tax comparison.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 24, 2018 - 03:44pm PT
I don't care if some billionaire gets millions in tax breaks. I am going to save about $3500 in taxes this year.

What about the hundreds of thousands of employees getting $1k bonuses because of this? What about the infusion of foreign money coming into our economy instead of the constant flow out?


Except that your $3500 comes from where? It comes from the gov't borrowing money to pay it. your team is dedicated to borrow and spend, exploding the deficit, then complaining that dems can't spend any money on infrastructure because they made your taxes too high.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 24, 2018 - 05:13pm PT
Trump’s approval plummets in Michigan, key swing state

Voters in the key swing state that Trump unexpectedly won in 2016 now overwhelmingly disapprove of his performance after his first year in office, according to a new poll.


Trump's approval rating in the Great Lake States has dropped to 39.5 percent while his disapproval rating has risen to 54 percent. Women in Michigan voiced the loudest opposition, with 66 percent saying they "strongly" disapprove of Trump and 39 percent giving his first year in office an "F" grade.

"His approval ratings are terrible, it's that simple," Rich Czuba, who completed the study and founded the Glengariff Group, told The Detroit News. "We are the bellwether state at this point. Michigan is going to reflect what is occurring nationally."

Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 24, 2018 - 05:18pm PT
LOL! Seriously!? You are so wrong. That money comes from MY hard-earned money that they will no longer be taking from me. Why is cutting spending so hard for you libs to understand? If they didn't spend so much, they wouldn't have to take so much. No, that is MY money that I am keeping more of.

Jody, Jody, Jody

you are embarrassing yourself again

try to follow this simple concept - when taxes are cut that same money does not come into the Federal revenue stream anymore

that missing money results in both the Deficit and National Debt growing larger

the non partisan CBO has stated that the loss of tax revenue will add 1.5 trillion dollars to the national debt

really Jody, stick to commenting only about retired police leasure activities, you are way out of your league on anything requiring fact (truth)



Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 24, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
Jody-
So what, I'll just fight harder to make my tax cut permanent. I am not jealous of what someone else gets, I'll just work harder to get what they have.
Jody, Trump will never give someone of your means a permanent tax cut- he needs you to pay for his tax cut.

I estimate, combined with your pension, you'll need to install approximately 127,000 cat doors a year to qualify for Trumps permanent, corporate tax cuts.
John M

climber
Jan 24, 2018 - 05:38pm PT
Jody wrote,

Why is cutting spending so hard for you libs to understand?

A tax cut is not cutting spending. Why is that so hard to understand? Cut the military 40% and you might be on to something. Until spending is actually decreased, then the tax cut is just increasing the national debt and putting your friends and family further into debt.

Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Jan 24, 2018 - 05:48pm PT
I am going to save about $3500 in taxes this year.

What about the hundreds of thousands of employees getting $1k bonuses because of this?

That's chump change. Now, a $10K bonus every quarter, that makes sense.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 24, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
Ah Jody! You are so happy with your $3,500 tax cut, which is likely a big exaggeration.

Per your latest defensive whining:

Why is me keeping more of MY money so wrong? You folks really do need to get a clue. The simple solution is cutting spending. You folks say I am clueless in this when it is you folks who are in lala land.

Give me a tax cut...cut spending. Very simple. Sorry you libs can't grasp that concept.

It sounds like you have a guilty conscience about your Republicans fuking America, so the rich & corporations will keep donating to the Republican party with their extra-wealth, thanks to the Republican tax-cut, while our national deficit goes up more & the poor get fuked some more.

And yes! Your tax-cut does go away in 2025, but corporations and the very rich, keep their tax cuts.

Enjoy, while the America I love suffers, thanks to those tax-cuts.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 24, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
Jody...Nothing wrong with that at all but keep your eye on the money Trump launders without paying taxes..
John M

climber
Jan 24, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
Not if they cut spending. Sheesh you libs love to spend.

Its your party that is in control. Why haven't they cut spending?

[Click to View YouTube Video]



Let me know when they are ready to cut the military.



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 24, 2018 - 10:56pm PT
Let me know when any party machina is ready to cut the military.

The “any party” clause is key. Dems are too chicken sh!t to vote agin the Pentagon,
especially if it will cost jobs in their district or state. We know why Repubs won’t.
It takes two to tango.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Jan 25, 2018 - 12:01am PT
Face it: the American economy has been dependent on defense spending to maintain employment since the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7th, 1941. Nobody's gonna vote to cut military spending because that means going back to the Great Depression. I've worked in a defense plant on top-secret microwave antennas to confuse enemy radar. That's where the good times roll and the benefits are ladled out. Working conditions are pure socialism without any glance at the profit motive. No hassles at all, like in a place where you have to make a profit. No tension. Everyone cooperates. Cutting back military spending just ain't gonna happen anytime soon. And now we have North Korea to worry about too. Personally, I'd like to see people studying more useless things like Etruscan pottery shards and Abstract Expressionist art. That's where I want to money to go. The pursuit of the useless. Better than paying for some dumb f_ck prison guard.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2018 - 01:39am PT
I never said it was. How could you have gotten that idea? Take a breath and try to comprehend here. I said cut taxes and cut spending to "pay for it".

But I've seen no significant cuts. I don't think you actually support cuts, but only support the gov't borrowing to pay you more money. You are interested in GETTING America, without PAYING for America.

I think the budget deficit will be there this year and next, and the debt will continue to increase. It has only gone down in our lifetimes under a democrat.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 25, 2018 - 07:04am PT
Ken, everybody wants government services, they just don't want to pay for them.
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Jan 25, 2018 - 07:46am PT
Jody,

not so sure about the YOUR freeking money idea: your money is under one of the shells on the table in front of you. The government is the one whom put the money there. It's NOT your money so much as you think. They(1%) pull the strings on the economy. How would you do in another depression when the gub takes away your pension? We are pawns,owned by the 1%. JMO

To the many of the I have mine folks..... it's not inconceivable that they are not coming for it, and it's NOT going to be through higher taxes; It's going to be through predatory economics made possible thru associated predatory deregulation. They're coming for your money too.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:04am PT

The difference between a liberal and a conservative is that liberals want to live in "We" society, the conservatives only care about a "me" society

There is no room for a "we" society if the Government can't fund it because of the tax cuts
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:08am PT
Jody, the Republicans want to gut your pension. They will, too. It's only a matter of time. They've managed to turn everyday working Americans against the idea of pensions for everyday working Americans. Say what you will, the right wing is brilliant in that regard.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:11am PT
Everything the Republicans do is scam against the middle class
So it's not news that Jody has fallen for the con job,

Trickle down has one final outcome, increasing wealth inequality
you lose while they gain, it's slow and subversive
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:20am PT
Jody stated:

When the Democrats were in the WH, they refused to release the reserves that each department had so the shutdown would be disruptive
'

the last shutdown was in 2013 when your Republicans controlled the House and thereby all government spending, your above statement makes no sense at all, prove it

prove it Jody, show your credible sources, prove you are not lying

also Jody, for the now 5th time request prove your statement that

"the Dems support and people and countries that support Sharia Law"

prove it, Jody
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_shutdown_of_2013
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:37am PT
Jody, the Republicans want to gut your pension.

I think it is more accurate to say they want pension obligations brought under control.
The Democrats’ poster chile for outta control pensions, among other things, is Illinois,
which put the ‘b’ in bankrupt.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:41am PT
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 25, 2018 - 09:55am PT
Here's a researched and insightful article about the circle of politics, charter schools, and get rich quick schemes:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/the-gops-biggest-charter-school-experiment-just-imploded/

There is an editorial liberal bias, but even if you take that with a grain of salt, the basic facts are pretty damning and do not bode well for our future of expanded charter schools.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 25, 2018 - 10:21am PT
I think it is more accurate to say they want pension obligations brought under control.

You say potato, I say potahto.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 25, 2018 - 10:32am PT
Well, Gary, at least you are civil about it. But who can deny the extreme fiscal recklessness of
the myriad city, county, and states who have put their citizenry under the cloud of roughly
$16 TRILLION in questionably funded pensions that likely will engender yuge new taxes and/or bond issues?
John M

climber
Jan 25, 2018 - 10:40am PT
I think it is more accurate to say they want pension obligations brought under control.

You say potato, I say potahto.

I would agree that some want pension obligations brought under control. Yet others seem to want them done away with entirely. The problem is that the rhetoric they put out demonizes people with pensions and demonizes government and thus it becomes very difficult to have any reasonable discussion. Both sides do this.

Liberals "only" want to spend.
Conservatives are "all" war mongers.
Etc..

When we resort to these kinds of characterizations, then conversation becomes contentious and little to no progress is made.

I have no problem paring down many government programs, though really I would like the push to be towards wiser leadership. But at this point, our country has become so contentious that the people with wisdom and discernment and who are able to make compromises, don't want leadership positions. So we end up with snakes in the grass leading our country. And then programs become insane and then people want to do away with the program, rather then fixing it.

For instance, I like having clean water and clean air, and safe food to drink and safe buildings, but the departments who are supposed to work to protect those things have created some poor situations, and so lots of people don;t trust them so that they then want to cut them, rather then attempt to fix them.

The solution is going to be a spiritual one, but our country is not ready for that. So we are in for rough times ahead.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 25, 2018 - 10:51am PT
Well, Gary, at least you are civil about it. But who can deny the extreme fiscal recklessness of
the myriad city, county, and states who have put their citizenry under the cloud of roughly
$16 TRILLION in questionably funded pensions that likely will engender yuge new taxes and/or bond issues?

If you look into the figures, you'll see that the biggest pensions are going to politcos, like Ratso Rizzo. Until he got busted, he was in line for over half a million per year in pensions. Or America's sheriff from Orange County Mike Carona. After that crook got out of the federal pen he started getting his $215,000 per year pension.

But who is going to get their pension whacked? The state highway maintenance worker who after 30 years was in line to make $1400 per month.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 25, 2018 - 11:20am PT
It seems there is a general epidemic of politicians supporting things that give immediate political benefit, things that people say they want, while not having to make the hard financial decisions of what else to give up to get it. It all gets kicked down the road to a general mixed up indebtedness and everyone can wipe there hands saying "yeah it's a problem, but it's not my fault." It's sort of like families that treat a credit card like money in their pocket.

Anyone with a backbone to make tough trade-offs will get voted out.

That said, I'm not a "government spending is bad" dogmatic person. I very much believe in using the government to manage spending for services that benefit society when an immediate profit motive will not trigger private industry to handle it. That might lead to quite a lot of government spending, but in the end there does have to be fiscal responsibility to work within sane parameters. A budget doesn't always have to be balanced in a given year if a chunk of that spending will lead to future growth of tax revenues (either through job creation or technology-based cost reductions or efficiencies), which will bring a future balance, or avert some short-term disaster. A balanced budget is one of a government's goals, but not necessarily the most important one in any given year.

I would aggressively explore reducing future pension commitments, but I would not cut existing commitments. People build their lives around those commitments, and have very few options when the commitments are not met.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 25, 2018 - 12:29pm PT
Jody, I think the point that you are not latching onto, is that your ability to make money and have a good life is because of a fabric of society woven together from many pieces that are paid for by government services. Some are easy to see an immediate value for, such as roads and defense from international armies. Others are more difficult because they relate to the sociopath-economic wellbeing of a majority of citizens, a mechanism for the marginalized members of our society to be managed in some fashion, and in general to promote a law-abiding society (which requires fewer people to be living in desperation where they disregard laws and rights of others, and it requires more educated people to stand up against the rising tide of robber-barrons that take advantage of ignorant (not necessarily stupid) people).

The steel in your guns, and the machining tools to make them, and the oil to lubricate them, and all the things in your comfortable life were created at a price you can afford in part because of the good things of capitalism and greed, but also in part because of the counterbalancing forces of unions and government regulations that created a middle class that created a market for luxury items you enjoy at a modest price. The world is interconnected and interdependent, and the more we try to pretend that our personal success is the result of our own industry without recognizing the contributions of others, the more our guiding map diverges from reality and creates a gap that will some day be closed in a violent manner.

Relying on small government and personal magnanimity for taking care of the struggling/incompetent members of society isn’t enough. But we all have our views, and can talk around them for ages without shifting perspectives. Sometimes I forget and still try.
Pennsylenvy

Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
Jan 25, 2018 - 12:35pm PT
^^^^^^^ x one thousand

edit : nut again .....You could flop at my place Friday eve if that need arises. I'm 7 miles south of I-40
John M

climber
Jan 25, 2018 - 12:43pm PT
BTW, way to address the content of my post.

you didn't acknowledge my last post where I clearly stated that I didn't mind trimming things besides the military. But if we are going to trim things then should include the military. So why should anyone pay attention to what you say?

Edit: great post nutagain
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 25, 2018 - 12:56pm PT
I do thank the DEMOCRATIC governor...

Don't be so fast, Jody.
California Governor Jerry Brown said legal rulings may clear the way for making cuts to public pension benefits, which would go against long-standing assumptions and potentially provide financial relief to the state and its local governments.

Brown said he has a "hunch" the courts would "modify" the so-called California rule, which holds that benefits promised to public employees can’t be rolled back. The state’s Supreme Court is set to hear a case in which lower courts ruled that reductions to pensions are permissible if the payments remain “reasonable” for workers.

"There is more flexibility than there is currently assumed by those who discuss the California rule,” Brown said during a briefing on the budget in Sacramento. He said that in the next recession, the governor “will have the option of considering pension cutbacks for the first time.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-10/california-s-brown-raises-prospect-of-pension-cuts-in-downturn

Please note that when the judges strike down pension benefits, they exempt themselves from those cuts.
The case that could weaken the California Rule stems from a “pension reform” law state legislators passed in 2012.

The law cut pensions and raised the retirement ages for new government employees and banned “pension spiking” for existing workers.

Judges, who generally have benefited from past public pension rulings, were exempted.

“They stuck it to pretty much everybody except the judges,” said Gregg McLean Adam, who is representing unions in the case.
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me-pension-legal/
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 25, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
Jody, for the now 5th time request prove your statement that

"the Dems support and people and countries that support Sharia Law"

prove it, Jody, in detail and with credible source links to show how you made this up and lied
John M

climber
Jan 25, 2018 - 03:15pm PT
3. Socialist Sponging off working people

Its not socialism to work for the government.

I don't believe that Jody is lazy. He does in my opinion behave in ways that are antithetical to being a Christian, but I will leave that one.

I wish that everyone would try a little more to deal with the issues, rather then the person. Otherwise we will just keep going round and round.
Trouble

climber
Fresno, CA
Jan 25, 2018 - 03:24pm PT
These forums are god damn echo chambers. Everybody is always trying to be the benevolent moral authority on every subject by regurgitating last nights CNN segment.

In 2020 Trump will win...again. Get over it.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 25, 2018 - 03:26pm PT
John M! Re your thoughts:

Otherwise we will just keep going round and round.

I thought that was the nature of political threads on ST, until the name-calling gets ugly & the thread gets nuked by ST management.

Then someone who appears to be bored & has an axe to grind, starts a new one.

John M

climber
Jan 25, 2018 - 03:35pm PT
Fritz,

Its currently the nature of America.. Thats too bad. It means we have some more ugliness to go through as a country.

Change begins at home. It begins in the heart. Thats part of what I meant about change requiring a spiritual impetus. Thats one of the things Jesus was teaching. Another is love your neighbor as yourself. We don't appear to do a very good job of loving ourselves, so its not a surprise that we don't really love our neighbors. When I say "we", I don't just mean the taco, but the taco is a microcosm of America. The trolls rule the house.

Edit: some will say that they love themselves, but is a person really loving themselves if they hate on their neighbor, thus putting themselves in a neighborhood of hate.
Dogtown.

Trad climber
Marshell islands atoll
Jan 25, 2018 - 04:26pm PT
Same old Supertopo I haven't missed much it looks like?
WBraun

climber
Jan 25, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
These forums are god damn echo chambers.
Everybody is always trying to be the benevolent moral authority on every subject by regurgitating last nights CNN segment.


Yep .... nothing but st00pid brainwashed idiot politards here like cattle eating grass outside the slaughterhouse.

Brainless idiots believing all that horsesh!t they are fed every day by that st00pid brainwashed controlled mainstream media ......

Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 25, 2018 - 06:06pm PT
just some broken promises:

 Drain the swamp. HA.

 vowed that Mexico would pay for the wall. HA.

 vowed to cut the "carried interest" loophole for wall st. HA.

 refused to take vacations. HA.

 renegotiate Iran deal. HA.

 create new jobs at Carrier in Indianapolis. [later declared: wait you thought I was serious?]

 fixing immigration [it's like negotiating with Jello]

 would distance himself from business empire. NOPE

 would release his Tax Returns. NOPE.

 Create targeted child care tax credits. NOPE.

 Surround himself with the best and smartest people. NOPE.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jan 25, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
http://www.newsweek.com/fat-shaming-president-trump-wrong-bad-activism-785674
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 25, 2018 - 07:57pm PT





rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:31pm PT
The prez says he's not afraid to testify under oath but last June he ordered Mueller to be fired...So brave and confidant...
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:37pm PT
RJ! I agree! There's nothing like Trump!

Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 25, 2018 - 08:40pm PT






Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 26, 2018 - 07:15am PT
Gary, DEMOCRATIC governor(Gray Davis) and DEMOCRATIC legislature passed the law in the first place.

Jody, true enough, but as noted a Democratic governor is now on the side of cutting promised pensions.

I've already been through this with my baker's pension. Due to the greed of the owners of Hostess brands, who took a profitable company and ran it into the ground while lining their pockets, while at the same time screwing over workers and the owners of other bakeries in the system.

Don't count on your pension, Jody. They'll steal it and not think twice about it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 08:02am PT
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 26, 2018 - 08:22am PT
The individual tax reductions are measly and temporary, and only meant as a diversion from the congressional Republicans true aim of rewarding their wealthy benefactors.

The corporations have little intention of using their huge and permanent tax reductions for job creation (as the tax bill was touted by Republicans) and so to avoid blowback they create their own diversion of trumpeting their generous one-time bonuses to current employees.

And of course tools like Jody just lap it up and even go out and promote the benevolent generosity of our corporate overlords—idiots.


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 08:29am PT
No liberal is gripping about pensions, I wish everyone had one.

We are gripping about the hypocrisy of the conservatives that set the system up to fail, and are just saying too bad, you lose.
They should have put that money in "Lock Box" so it was there when the time came.

And the hypocrisy of the conservatives bashing public service/Government jobs, liberals have no problem with them and we think the rich should pay more in taxes to fund Government Jobs and programs
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 08:34am PT
Restoring confidence in and respect for America
WRONG

so we have another paid troll

with a list of Fascist propaganda
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 08:39am PT
a BS answer for everything

and they should keep paying your pension, right?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 26, 2018 - 08:48am PT
Increase of the GDP above 3 percent.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-trump-economy-20180126-story.html


The U.S. economy slowed at the end of last year, once again unable to sustain 3% growth for very long in a trend that has plagued the recovery from the Great Recession.

The 2.6% figure for the October-December period reported Friday by the Commerce Department — the first of three estimates in the coming weeks — was down from 3.2% in the previous quarter and below analyst expectations.
WBraun

climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 08:56am PT
St00pid looker has no clue.

CHP never used those dumb azz Streethawk lightbars in the above photo.

St00pid looker is an internet mental speculator troll with zero clues on anything .....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 09:52am PT
The pension money was spent already, Republican policies would not allow the money to be put in a lock box
the Dems are just trying to salvage what they can by restructuring pensions
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 26, 2018 - 10:33am PT
Any contract is just a work order for a good lawyer.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 26, 2018 - 11:05am PT
"BTW, I paid plenty into my own retirement fund over 27 years."

PROVE IT, LIAR.

1. What percent of your pay went into this fund, each year of those 27 years?????

2. Did you backpay for all the years before 2001 when Gray Davis the corrupt moron RETROACTIVELY increased your pension 50% ?

No, I didn't think so.


3. Why were CHP pensions fine at a 2% per year formula for the previous many decades,
but suddenly in 2001 CHP deserved a 3% per year formula?

Answer: Corrupt ripoff by "fake" unions. (State & local government lobbyist gangs who have no opposition)

4. What percent of your CHP pay was deducted to go into OASDI, (Social security + SSI + Disability) compared to the 6.2% employee + 6.2% employer that everyone else in the country has to pay? (12.4% OASDI + 2.9% Medicare)? Or even what percent went into a separate state fund to pay the outrageously high number of state safety personnel who retire on disability? (Don't give me some standard fake union tripe about how Social Security pensions are the equivalent of Cal state/county/city pensions when we all know that for middle class seniors, Social security benefits are about 1/4 as generous.)

answer: ZERO.
http://www.governing.com/columns/public-money/FICA-free-lunch-crowd.html
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 26, 2018 - 11:30am PT
Russians got tens of thousands of Americans to RSVP for their phony political events on Facebook
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:07pm PT
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:14pm PT





2018! Biatches!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
Yes, Satan does live it well

But to be the most hated man on the planet!!
and the most vile, ignorant, moronic, ugly hateful and so many other adjectives....
a King only the fascists can admire

He will fall soon
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
How's that Trump guy working out for you?

(proceeds to list a bunch of sh#t that doesn't effect anyone)

First you list a literal non-event.

Banging porn stars? Oh noes! That means less porn stars for the rest of us!

3 wives? Oh noes! He doesn't have a fake political marriage like Billary!

Bankruptcies? Oh noes! He stiffed a bank who tried to screw him!

"dozens of sexual assault charges" yeah except that never happened. A charge is, well let's quote a legal dictionary:

Charge
To impose a burden, duty, obligation, or lien; to create a claim against property; to assess; to demand; to accuse; to instruct a jury on matters of law. To impose a tax, duty, or trust. To entrust with responsibilities and duties (e.g., care of another). In commercial transactions, to bill or invoice; to purchase on credit. In Criminal Law, to indict or formally accuse.
An encumbrance, lien, or claim; a burden or load; an obligation or duty; a liability; an accusation. A person or thing committed to the care of another. The price of, or rate for, something.

So, as to how well Trump is working for us, how about talking policy instead of this bullsh#t?
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
2018! Biatches!
Oh boy, here we go again.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:19pm PT
Ballo
you're a real sh#t spewer aren't you
all that stuff you post is pure right wing State Propaganda Fed Fake News

If we already know the facts, and you post lies opposing the facts, then it makes you look like Russian bot here to spread lies

The very mention of Hillary at this point is a really revealing
Fake marriage?? are you serious!

You must really love Trump, that makes you one of the 34% of the population
that are true Authoritarian followers, read John Dean "Conservatives without Conscience"
Deflection of the many TRUE allegations by posting BS
pathetic

Name one Republican policy beside tax cuts that has helped you personally?
There are none, that's fact

The only policies that help real people are from the other side, the Republicans work to block them.
His polices suck as much as he does
But that's the same with all Republican policies, they are all bad
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:22pm PT
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
Fake marriage?? are you serious!

LOL, are you? It's a marriage of convenience if there ever was one. You can't get anywhere in politics single. The social conservatives won't go for it.

You must really love Trump

This is the world you live in: either you're with us or against us. Here, look in the mirror:
alpineblissed

Trad climber
The Town, CA
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
for any devs out there...as a consumer, i would GLADLY pay $50-$100 year for an app that deletes all mention of the rapist-in-chief from all sites i visit.

there has got to be a way to do this and the reward would rock~
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:28pm PT
As usual, some erudite takes on the issues affecting us.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:30pm PT
I'm against you and Trump

Is Trump's marriage a marriage of convenience as well?
Must be

Trump has proven to fail at everything he has done, but he lies about so people believe he is a success, it's as simple as that
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
I'm against you and Trump

LOL, why would you even state this? Why would anyone care? Woop de dooooooo

Is Trump's marriage a marriage of convenience as well?
Must be

Wrong: here's the correct answer: NOBODY CARES!

Trump has proven to fail at everything he has done, but he lies about so people believe he is a success, it's as simple as that

Objectively untrue, but more to the point: Trump is living on your head rent free. Why?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:39pm PT
Lame
everyone cares about what our President does and says

and he lied more than 2000 times during his first year
he lies about everything
that makes him the worst f-ing president EVER

and a LIAR
and a adulterer
and a mobster
and in cahoots with Russia

I don't give a sh#t what you may have gotten from him, because I'm sure it's some scam that screws some one else down the line
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:40pm PT
LOL, seek help, Craig. You're obsessed like a jilted lover, except Trump doesn't even know you.

Again, why not talk about policy instead of all this buuuuuulllshiiiiiiit
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
Why don't you address the TRUE allegations
we already said his policies suck
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:44pm PT
and in cahoots with Russia

Is Russia really that dangerous?
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:44pm PT
Why don't you address the TRUE allegations

'cause they're allegations, and 'cause it doesn't affect me.
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:45pm PT
Is Russia really that dangerous?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:49pm PT
If Trump is lying, then it affects you
Because your president is a Liar and will have to step down


The law is the law
It's unlawful to have foreign Nations help your campaign
The law is pretty straight forward
Trump broke that law

and the laundering Russian money is against the3 law as well
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 01:51pm PT
Because your president is a Liar and will have to step down

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
The Clintons did not lie 2000 times in their first year

so it's going to be the "what about Hillary" defense for all questions?
so lame

The new Godwin's law is;
The first person that brings up the Clintons loses

You lost

I can care less about what the Clintons did, but I do care about the lies you guys repeat about them, it makes you liars
It's pathetic
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:04pm PT
Oh, I lost by the rules you just made up?

The point of my post, since it went over your head, is you have no principles. You're just whining about sh#t that doesn't affect you.

The first image shows Bill Clinton when he lied about a bunch of bullshit I didn't care about, but somehow this lie doesn't fall under your rule of "Because your president is a Liar and will have to step down" (funny how you also labeled him *my* President as if he isn't either OUR President or neither yours nor mine since neither of us voted for him).

The second image shows Hillary Clinton, supposedly the MUCH better POTUS choice, saying "What difference does it make?!"
dirtbag

climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
The whataboutisms are a fool’s trap. It’s not worth playing along.

Keep your eyes on the prize, the man with the power now.
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
the man with the power

Who is the man with the power? Politicians don't even draft legislation in this country; lobbyists do. They don't run the country; the service sector does. They don't interpret the law, either.

The most important person you'll ever vote for is your local Sheriff.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:21pm PT
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:24pm PT
I have realized that liberals do not want anybody to have more money than what they deem necessary for that individual to have.

Jody, you got that backwards. The plutocrats running this country want you to have no more than is necessary for you to serve their purposes. As a matter of fact, they like it when the government subsidizes their employees for them, like Walmart, for instance.

I can't figure out why Americans think that it is OK for someone who works 40 hour weeks to need food stamps and section 8 housing to survive.

And for those wondering, Jody contributed about 8% of his pay towards his retirement.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:32pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:35pm PT

Jan 26, 2018 - 02:17pm PT
the man with the power

Who is the man with the power? Politicians don't even draft legislation in this country; lobbyists do. They don't run the country; the service sector does. They don't interpret the law, either.

The most important person you'll ever vote for is your local Sheriff.


Silly.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:35pm PT
The most important person you'll ever vote for is your local Sheriff.

Because only the local sheriff has any constitutional power?
https://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/countysheriff
Today, under a national emergency the Sheriff is both the first and last line of defense should our government go rouge;

Interesting. What if the government goes orange?

John M

climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
I have realized that liberals do not want anybody to have more money than what they deem necessary for that individual to have. Kingslut and splatter and others have demonstrated that ONLY the government knows how to spend my money for charitable purposes and they resent the fact I think I can do more good for humanity by having the government take less of it.

Unbelievable the childish jealousy they are showing. Embarrassing really.

aw Jody.. I don't know why you come to these conclusions, except you have judged liberals falsely.

Liberals don't care if you have money. They want money too. The reason that they want government to be involved in helping people is because they do not trust every person to give liberally. Your argument that you could do it better as an individual is the same argument that those people who oppose social security use. They say that they can invest their money better then the government can. They ignore the hard truth that most people could not and would not be disciplined enough to invest and save for their retirement. So if we did away with social security, then people would starve. The same would be true if we as a people stopped funding such programs as food stamps. People would starve. Because while you may be generous, most people either aren't or are not disciplined enough to save enough money to be able to donate on a regular basis.

The basis of this truth is easy to see on the taco. Popular people who are well know have come here needing money for health reasons, and they raise a decent amount of money. Less known people, or people who are shy about interacting with others have shown up and raised much less money. These people often end up doing without the help that they need. The givers are the same group of people. The need is just as great, but the outcome is much different.

Liberals want to try to balance that outcome.

Does their effort go too far at times and become out of balance?

Yes of course.

Just as many of the important things that conservatives hold dear, such as security, also get out of balance.

I believe that you have said in the past that you would not mind cutting the military. So perhaps you can see what I mean when I say that conservatives desires also get out of balance. Should we just give everyone their money back and let each individual decide how to spend their money on security and defense? Of course not. The collective can do it better as a whole. Liberals believe this about social concerns.

Edit: Even capitalism supports this understanding. Mass production reduces costs and produces more outcome. Sometimes mass production produces some poor outcomes and individuals can do it better, but on the whole mass production produces more good for everyone.
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:49pm PT
Interesting. What if the government goes orange?

I'm not even sure what this means. Trump is one man who probably garnered most of his support simply by not being Hillary.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 26, 2018 - 02:57pm PT
The whataboutisms are a fool’s trap. It’s not worth playing along.

Keep your eyes on the prize, the man with the power now.

The CA home turf of the MAGA man are lit up on Hillery on my FB. Quite a few have posted something crooked about what Hillery is said to have done. This has essentially been going on since the news was broke that Mueller would question the MAGA man. Bako is essentially a fool's trap...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 26, 2018 - 10:08pm PT
aw Jody.. I don't know why you come to these conclusions, except you have judged liberals falsely.

come on John. You should have figured out by now that jody, like most conservatives, is paranoid. they are always afraid of their short comings, so they have to blame it on someone else.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 26, 2018 - 10:21pm PT
U.S. economic growth slowed in 2017’s fourth quarter, missing Trump’s targets

This has important implications for conservatives. They have bet the economic stability of the US on the concept that we will grow our way out of our deficit. Guys like John E. told us, and signed public letters of support, that the economic growth rate will be in the 4-6 percent, which will be necessary to pay the way.

the liberal economists said it would not happen, and the country would be saddled with more debt, and potentially pushed into a recession.

Watch out!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 26, 2018 - 10:22pm PT
A mostly benign report on the U.S. economy does have one big red flag

The savings rate has been this low only one other time in history, when the popularity of home-equity lines of credit soared in 2005, at the peak of the housing boom.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 26, 2018 - 10:26pm PT
Will RNC return Steve Wynn’s donations after calling on DNC to return Harvey Weinstein’s?

The bombshell report sent shares of Wynn resort tumbling more than 10% and the company’s board said it was forming a special committee to investigate the allegations.

The article also shined a harsh spotlight on the Republican Party.

A top GOP donor and close friend of President Trump, Wynn is the chair of the Republican National Committee’s Finance Committee.

The Las Vegas icon’s 2005 encounter with the manicurist led to a $7.5 million payoff, according to The Wall Street Journal.

The incident was one of several sickening episodes described by more than 150 current or former Wynn employees.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 26, 2018 - 11:18pm PT
"Will RNC return Steve Wynn’s donations after calling on DNC to return Harvey Weinstein’s?"

What would you expect from the Repo-hypocrit party?

They will claim Clinton forced Wynn to do it.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
Jan 26, 2018 - 11:33pm PT
CHP has pretty good benefits funded by the taxpayers of Cali. Odd, when members of a public employee union with excellent medical and retirement benefits attack the government that pays them. Sort of like members of the Prison Guards Union who voted for DT. Are cops and prison guards the only ones entitled to "Rockin' Chair Money"? I hear where Governor Brown is going to nail those prison guards pretty soon. Make them work till they're 57. Rough life. Maybe CHP officers should patrol the freeways till they're 70? You want to get some value out of those cheap SOBs.
John M

climber
Jan 27, 2018 - 08:32am PT
A lot of jobs are dangerous and have their difficulties. See how many guys who do construction have messed up backs. Try living in old age with a messed up back. Try earning a living with a messed up back. Oh.. and plenty of construction workers die on the job. So its dangerous also. I had a backhoe rock 3 inches and it split my helmet, knocking me out cold and wrecking my neck. No benefits for me.

I know.. I know.. you will say thats my fault that I took a job without benefits.

But not everyone can get a job with benefits because not every job comes with benefits because... and thats the rub. Why don't they have benefits? Why did you get benefits? Do you even know? I'm betting that you just blow by that one without even acknowledging the reasons you have what you have.

Edit: You have a serious problem with acknowledging the past and the things that helped get you what you have. Like a caring public that wanted its workers to have a decent life. And would like all workers to have a decent life. But you don't give a sh#t about that. You got yours and now you want to keep others from getting theirs by doing away with things like unions, which helped you get what you have. Ungrateful is the word that comes to mind.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 27, 2018 - 08:38am PT
Morris....Jody would never make a living in the NBA...The guy can't spell basketball....Let's be glad he's got the calpers pension...
John M

climber
Jan 27, 2018 - 08:43am PT
I stopped a mugging once. I must know what its like to be a cop.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 27, 2018 - 08:54am PT
Jokey, What was it that Jesus said about gun control?

Oh yeah, was it Matthew 25:34-36
Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’?

What was it that Jesus said about dealing with idiots on the hiways?

Mark 12:41-44
He sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the crowd putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which are worth a penny. Then he called his disciples and said to them, ‘Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. For all of them have contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.’

We Libs are getting pretty tired of picking up the slack for you Zombiephiles.

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 27, 2018 - 09:16am PT
"They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind"
Hosea 8-7

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California, now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2018 - 06:28am PT
Longnut Jan 26, 2018 - 08:31am PT
Re: Trump's First Year Accomplishments

Smoke and mirrors.

I’d be curious where you got that list from, as I am sure many of the items/issues could be reasonably disputed. And remember executive orders are not legislation, and in some cases not enforceable, just for show.

For one, economies are their own beasts, and look at it objectively, much of the upswing in the past two or so years are due to policies that Obama initiated, Trump is just reaping the benefits, so to speak.

I also agree with some posters that the bonuses many companies/corporations are dishing out to employees are nothing short of a PR stunt, and will not hurt their bottom line, whereas the tax cuts will certainly help their bottom line, big time.

Take a step back and look to see what Trump has really accomplished, if you dare to.

On another note, how does one bankrupt a casino? I would think that it would be quite difficult, that any competent businessperson would make a profit on a casino. I don’t really know, I do not gamble, I pulled a slot machine handle once somewhere in some small burg in Nevada in 1985, and that was it.

As well, let us take a hypothetical situation. What if the president of the United States had, in the past, been found to be laundering money for the mob – American mob, Russian mob, Mickey Mouse mob. How would you feel about that?

Just asking.

Back to the original question, where did you access that list of Trump’s “achievements”?
dirtbag

climber
Jan 28, 2018 - 08:28am PT
WhoTF would kid let this man come within a continent of his presidential campaign, let alone, let him run it?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/



(Yeah...we know who.)
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 28, 2018 - 09:29am PT
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 28, 2018 - 09:37am PT
^^^^^

yet he got 85% of the hard core Christian evangelical vote....go figure

oh yes I forgot, the three G's..

God, Guns, and Gays gets em to vote Republican all the time
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 28, 2018 - 10:23am PT
The 3 G's and i'll add A+T , abortion and taxes...The conservative voters , some that are drawing SS , medicare , or using social services unwittingly demand that taxes be lowered foolishly thinking the cuts are for them...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 28, 2018 - 08:57pm PT
The best line I heard today was that it will not be the Deep State that gets Trump, but he might be hit by the Deep Fryer.......
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 28, 2018 - 09:51pm PT
Jealous any?

I argue that my job is at the top of the list for DESERVING the pay and benefits we got.

free donuts?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 28, 2018 - 10:03pm PT
RJ! Per your retort about Trump's supporters:

The 3 G's and i'll add A+T , abortion and taxes...The conservative voters , some that are drawing SS , medicare , or using social services unwittingly demand that taxes be lowered foolishly thinking the cuts are for them...


Don't forget to add a R for Racist & a BIG L for Losers!

I wish I could believe Trump supporters will be sorry, but with their beliefs & culture, they think they have a HUGE victory. (Maybe the only one since their High School football team had a winning season.)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 29, 2018 - 08:45am PT
Trump has flip flopped about his account on trying to fire Mueller... When asked by reporters if he was considering firing Mueller , Trump stated it wasn't even a consideration...Now the truth has come out that Trump tried firing Mueller...Trump backed off when his attorney threatened to resign creating another PR disaster for the president... Kenneth Starr has called this an impeachable offense...
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 29, 2018 - 10:40am PT
Here's how bad a republican gerrymander has to be before anything is done about it.

This particular gerrymander even has a name. Goofy kicking Donald.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drawing-the-lines-on-gerrymandering/

"the Republican-controlled State House drew these lines -- or gerrymandered them -- to create as many safe Republican seats as possible.
Last election, Republicans won a little more than half (54%) of the statewide vote, but the lion's share of seats -- 13 out of 18, more than two-thirds."

Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
The Trump supporters here on ST are not making anywhere near as much noise as they did in Trumps earlier months...

I wonder why that is???...

LOL, they probably have lives that don't revolve around Trump, unlike you.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 29, 2018 - 02:05pm PT
Hillary owns rent in his mind

What about Hillary!!! she did that thing that time....

look over there -->
don't look at the elephant in the room for God's sake

For Your information
The Whole World is talking about Trump because he is such a f-ing disaster at every level
A new train wreck every day
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 29, 2018 - 03:02pm PT
a lot more voters were removed from ballot roles than trump won buy
all in predominantly democratic districts...

A a huge number of them were removed because? Because they do not actually vote in that district. Seems like those voters are a non-factor in Trump losing the popular vote.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 29, 2018 - 03:18pm PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 29, 2018 - 08:25pm PT
Why a White House plan to nationalize 5G data networks has spurred widespread backlash

The intelligence community views network equipment made by Chinese companies with ties to Beijing as insecure, officials said. But the government has rarely taken a direct role in building such networks, making the proposal remarkably ambitious.

Lets see---I thought conservatives were against Gov't control of anything, and here they propose nationalizing the phone and data systems.

They won't need search warrants any more, because the gov't will be the owner of the system.

yep, I like how conservatives want to stay out of the lives of people.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 29, 2018 - 08:32pm PT
a lot more voters were removed from ballot roles than trump won buy
all in predominantly democratic districts...

A a huge number of them were removed because? Because they do not actually vote in that district. Seems like those voters are a non-factor in Trump losing the popular vote.

Oh, no. they were far more clever about this. What they did was compare the voter roles with the list of felons in the state. If there was a match, they were deleted, but if there was a "near match", let's say the felon was named "John Bock", then also deleted if found, would be any J. Bock, any Jon Bocker, and of course, any Jon Beck.

https://www.brennancenter.org/publication/voter-purges
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 08:40pm PT
Twitterers freaking out over the non-sanctions announcement and the nunes thing. Schindler wrote:
"Step back a bit. Ask yourself what's SO important that Nunes et al are willing to publicly destroy their reputations for, while undermining the HPSCI, the FBI, the IC, and the rule of law.

Then, clarity arrives.

Like a gut-punch"

and, in response to this one:

Peter Baker
‏Verified account @peterbakernyt
5h5 hours ago

Schiff says House Intelligence Committee Republicans have opened an investigation into the Justice Department and FBI.

Schindler wrote:
"This is coup-type sh#t -- don't kid yourself, peeps. I do NOT say that casually, as you know"



Commentary suggesting that there is very widescale corruption in place. Also, confidence that justice will prevail, but....well, let's hope. To take a bit from Edward Abbey.... "What have you got to lose?"

Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 08:51pm PT
Are the FBI and DOJ beyond reproach?

It's an investigation. No 'coup' can take place due to an investigation. Witnesses will have to be called to Congress and examined under oath if any wrongdoing is found.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jan 29, 2018 - 09:05pm PT
A properly formed Praetorian Guard will never allow witnesses to testify against their emporer. Muller will be led to the forest for execution before it gets that far- ask Comey, Yates, and many others.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 29, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
How are all those coal mining jobs working out?
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 09:21pm PT
Comey is still tweeting, although it seems in a vain attempt to preserve his legacy. If he's aware of any wrongdoing he can be called to testify.
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 09:31pm PT
ya... I'm sure your side of the fence will spit on him and his lack of respect for aristocracies divine right to rule for ages to come...

Who are you talking to?
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
I'm talking to the sadists who gets their kicks off hurting defenseless people and who finds conformity to the modern conservative movement the best avenue to access the marks he fiends for!

Huh?
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 29, 2018 - 09:39pm PT
Yeah, Comey sounds so desperate.

https://twitter.com/Comey?lang=en
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 09:47pm PT
Yeah, Comey sounds so desperate.

I don't get Comey at all. He appears to be defending McCabe because that's who he appointed to succeed him, but why say anything? Why not just let everything play out without butting in?

Does McCabe have something over him? I hope everything comes out with the shitstorm, but honestly I'm afraid the partisan bickering is going to drown out the real story like this indictment which originated from an FBI informant William Campbell who was supposedly laundering money used as a bribe in the Uranium One deal:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-president-maryland-based-transportation-company-indicted-11-counts-related-foreign
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 29, 2018 - 09:48pm PT
Keep on fantasizing, Ballo. It is at least mildly entertaining.

A single tweet on the day McCabe steps down is not butting in. Sheesh.
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 10:21pm PT
A single tweet on the day McCabe steps down is not butting in. Sheesh.

Butting in? I never said he was butting in, or that he has no right to. All I'm saying is he's not being silenced.

I don't know why he's tweeting, however. It makes no sense to me.
Ballo

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2018 - 10:39pm PT
the uranium deal which only affected who owned the profits of driving ore from one American facility to another?

So why would Russia care to bribe officials in the first place?

There is a federal case and indictments are going down. This much is fact. We'll see where it heads, but at least this is a solid indictment not a bunch of partisan hot air.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 08:31am PT
Trump refuses to apply Russia sanctions

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/29/1737050/-Trump-refuses-to-apply-Russia-sanctions

Now who is more complicit with Russia?

Hillary that had nothing to do with the sale of Uranium to a Company that was not allowed to sell it outside of the US.

Or Trump who has borrowed, laundered, or taken 100s of millions of Russian Money and has Quid Pro Quo for stopping the Russian sanctions for the Russian help in the elections
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 08:33am PT
A business associate of President Trump promised in 2015 to engineer a real estate deal with the aid of the president of Russia, Vladimir V. Putin, that he said would help Mr. Trump win the presidency.

The associate, Felix Sater, wrote a series of emails to Mr. Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, in which he boasted about his ties to Mr. Putin. He predicted that building a Trump Tower in Moscow would highlight Mr. Trump’s savvy negotiating skills and be a political boon to his candidacy.

“Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it,” Mr. Sater wrote in an email. “I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/us/politics/trump-tower-putin-felix-sater.html
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 30, 2018 - 08:49am PT
Lol...


Nytimes is the flip side of infowars, both are probably produced in the same basement.

It's all lies.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 08:54am PT
All Lies!

Info Wars is all lies, the NY Times is not

Find one lie on todays NYT front page
if you can't, it's you that is the liar

and BTW, almost all the media outlets posted the same story, not just the NYT
which makes it not a lie
since it was actual e-mails that were intercepted
Because TRUMP was Under investigation by the FBI
dirtbag

climber
Jan 30, 2018 - 08:59am PT
Craig, it’s pointless to explain the difference between infowars and nyt to someone.

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 30, 2018 - 09:11am PT
tRump learned a lot from his mentor, Roy Cohn...

 Tell a bald faced, self-serving lie to make up for your serious self esteem problems

 Shout down anyone who questions it. Try to destroy them utterly

 Repeat the lie so many times that it becomes an "alternative fact"

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 09:13am PT
ADD

 call all negative press fake news

 both sides are the same
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 30, 2018 - 10:10am PT
You guys are amusing.... nonetheless...

I will go look for evil Russian boogeymen from the 80's out on my chemtrail/Jade helm research trip.

Once I get back from the ark on the moon that is...



Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 10:23am PT
The only ones thinking that this Russia thing is a conspiracy are the conspiracy nut jobs

and the fake news, the lairs for Trump, the right wing propaganda machine, Alex Jones and his infowar cult, retarded folks, morons, idiots and con artists

so if you believe them, you are an idiot

every intelligence agency in the entire World say Russia intervened to help Trump win

To say they didn't means you have your own intelligence agency and you researched it completely and found no wrong doing, or you are a complete dupe for the propaganda

what is it that you FEAR, fear
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 30, 2018 - 10:26am PT
You must be a riot at parties Craig......
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 10:28am PT
This is not a party, it's a campfire

I usually stay quiet unless I see injustice
and I ALWAYS call out lying when I see it
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 30, 2018 - 10:40am PT
You can have opinions about things Craig without calling people idiots.

You might hurt their feelings. I'd be sad.

:)

Or perhaps I am a Russian spy! Bwaaaahaaahaaaa!

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 10:47am PT
You should educate yourself so your opinoins are not the same as an idiot's
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 30, 2018 - 11:05am PT
fear stated

Nytimes is the flip side of infowars, both are probably produced in the same basement.

It's all lies.

how so, fear?

list some of the "lies" the Times has told recently and then compare that to the Infowars lies

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 30, 2018 - 11:31am PT
You guys are working yourselves into a lather over this Russia nonsense... The same way people worked themselves up over Benghazi or emails or whatever.

Nothing ever changes, nobody ever goes to jail. All this focus on the puppet in chief is circus and spectacle for the masses. The "Russian collusion" thing though was particularity laughable... I'm waiting for yet another Rocky movie where he can battle the evil Russian guy again.

You've got a loud mouthed orange guy who sells his brand name for $$$. Nothing wrong with that if you're into Vegas real estate or solid-gold toilet seats and embroidered crapper paper but he's hardly some deep dark figure in multi-national crime rings. He's a clown and all of these absurd claims making him out to be more than that are just silly. He's not that bright.




Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 30, 2018 - 11:41am PT
Ballo Replied:
Butting in? I never said he was butting in, or that he has no right to.
when someone said "one Tweet in a day is not butting in."

which was in response to Ballo's post that included:
....but why say anything? Why not just let everything play out without butting in?


Sure read like you felt he was "butting in" when I read it. But hey, the new normal is to deny what has been said or written in print, even only moments after having said or written it....

Comey posts because he is standing in solidarity with those he worked with, and for. He's chosen a side, and when history is written, wants ti be clear which one that was. If you haven't noticed, a very GOOD number of people have gone on record with statements that are what we would call "PC," but clearly indicate their feelings on what is going on.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 30, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
Ballo appears to have a short term memory problem.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
You guys are working yourselves into a lather over this Russia nonsense... The same way people worked themselves up over Benghazi or emails or whatever.
We are not the same people

The people that deny the Trump collusion are the same people that created a sh#t storm over Benghazi and the e-mails
Can you see the connection??
what these people scream about are conspiracies and cover ups, and on the same side as you apparently, since you agree with them on the Russia thing

It's all about demonizing the opposition and defending the team no matter how evil.

This Trump Russia thing will become huge, just let the pieces fall.
To call it now as fake News is BS.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 30, 2018 - 01:18pm PT
The entire list of Trump/Russia connections is on the site linked below. Someone like Ballo or fear can go through the list cherry-picking and saying, “this and this and that don’t prove anything,” and “because Hillary,” or ”because Bill Clinton” or “they’re all the same,” or “blah blah blah fake news,” but that doesn’t change the fact that this is not normal and taken as a whole it is very clear that some pretty f*#ked up sh#t has been happening to this country.

If you refuse to see that, you are not a spy, just another one of Putin’s useful idiots.



http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/


This is just what we know. I wonder what else Mueller has uncovered.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jan 30, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
You guys are working yourselves into a lather over this Russia nonsense... The same way people worked themselves up over Benghazi or emails or whatever.

Nothing ever changes, nobody ever goes to jail. All this focus on the puppet in chief is circus and spectacle for the masses. The "Russian collusion" thing though was particularity laughable... I'm waiting for yet another Rocky movie where he can battle the evil Russian guy again.

You've got a loud mouthed orange guy who sells his brand name for $$$. Nothing wrong with that if you're into Vegas real estate or solid-gold toilet seats and embroidered crapper paper but he's hardly some deep dark figure in multi-national crime rings. He's a clown and all of these absurd claims making him out to be more than that are just silly. He's not that bright.


Bread and circuses, brother, except they are trying to eliminate the bread nowadays, all circus.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 30, 2018 - 02:09pm PT
He is a clown. That is why the Russians pulled his strings. They went all in when they realized he was so easy to manipulate.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 30, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
Omg.... turn off your teevees... think.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Jan 30, 2018 - 02:38pm PT
Nytimes is the flip side of infowars, both are probably produced in the same basement.

It's all lies

is that so, "fear"?


list some of the "lies" the Times has told recently and then compare that to the Infowars lies
Levy

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 30, 2018 - 02:52pm PT
Could all of Trump's saber rattling with North Korea be what sparked the reunification talks with South Korea? I realize that years of economic sanctions, coupled with the North's famine exacerbated by those very sanctions be the tipping point that has led to this moment?

Could it be that Trump has pushed the north hard knowing that they, like the USSR, could not sustain an arms race for long before it broke them economically?

Might it be that Trump has fooled us all?
dirtbag

climber
Jan 30, 2018 - 03:54pm PT
^^^No, only his supporters.^^^
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 03:58pm PT
A stopped clock is right twice a day
Trump stumbles upon some things not so terrible once in a while
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 30, 2018 - 04:36pm PT


Could it be that Trump has pushed the north hard knowing that they, like the USSR, could not sustain an arms race for long before it broke them economically?

One of Trump's advisors would be the instigator here not T himself.

Sorry

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 30, 2018 - 05:27pm PT
Once they figure out they can be rich unifying with the South then it will end.

BINGO
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 30, 2018 - 05:30pm PT
Reagans’s words didn’t do a thing but his ramping up of the arms race bankrupted them.
Also, not many Russians who fought in The Great Patriotic War were still around in the 80’s and the newer gens were sick of working for kopeks and not having anything to buy anyway.
Then Gorby made some fatal mistakes of loosening access to info and keeping the KGB in check.

That stuff isn’t directly comparable to N Korea. Besides, the USSR wasn’t run by crazy people.
The regime won’t get rich (they’re already rich) so what is their incentive to unite?
They’ll be down the road.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 30, 2018 - 06:08pm PT
I’ve never watched very many under any president.

There is no way in hell I am going to watch that autocratic, narcissistic SOB lie lie lie.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 30, 2018 - 06:15pm PT
In one of the bars I worked for State Of The Union, we'd hang a paper toilet seat cover over the TV so the President's face was looking out through it.
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Jan 30, 2018 - 06:19pm PT
Pelosi is dressed for a funeral. Looks like she's about to cry:(
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 30, 2018 - 06:47pm PT
Could all of Trump's saber rattling with North Korea be what sparked the reunification talks with South Korea?

More like the Olympics has a lot to do with it.
zBrown