Discussion Topic |
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 22, 2017 - 06:04am PT
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Trump's appointee to head the FCC is planning to repeal legal protections of net neutrality.
Why is this important to you?
Net neutrality prevents internet providers from blocking your access to their competitor's websites.
In other words, net neutrality prevents Verizon from blocking your access to Netflix, and thereby forcing you to subscribe to Verizon's movie service instead.
In other words, net neutrality prevents your internet provider from censoring your Google search results.
A few years ago, Verizon filed a lawsuit against the FCC, challenging net neutrality. This forced the FCC to move net neutrality under Title II so that net neutrality could be protected under law and legally enforcible.
Trump's appointee to head the FCC is a scumbag lawyer who used to work for Verizon (surprise!). Now he is going to repeal Title II protections of net neutrality (surprise!).
Make your voice heard. Call congressmen and demand Title II protection of net neutrality.
Leave a message with the FCC. The FCC has made it almost impossible to comment on this topic, but a group had made it easy:
http://gofccyourself.com
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 06:14am PT
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From swamp to shining swamp this land was made for Trump...
I'm going to say it again- happy Thankstaking day!
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Nov 22, 2017 - 06:44am PT
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This is really bad news.
Susan
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Nov 22, 2017 - 07:01am PT
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Welcome to your future:
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 22, 2017 - 07:04am PT
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they just wanna throttle sites like www.theracistkeeblerDoJ.com and hide www.mooreteens.net. what's so bad about that?
i sure trust corporate control of the wild wild internets. family values and stuff.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2017 - 07:49am PT
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Or just taking your business to a provider that doesn't do this. Where I live, there is only one internet provider that can provide me with internet access (satellite), unless I want to get a landline and go back to dial up.
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John M
climber
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Nov 22, 2017 - 08:06am PT
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that forbes argument is incredibly wrong. Net neutrality is nothing like forcing everyone to only have vanilla ice cream. Instead it means those who can't afford to pay for open access won't have it.
If I was a billionaire I would buy up all access to nascar and then create the craziest rules for people to be able to watch it. Want to watch nascar, then you must say 10 nice things about Hillary on Twitter for every 20 laps of viewing. Want to watch nascar, then you can not watch faux news.
You know Jody. I know some Christian Preachers said that Trump would be elected, and that he is God's will. And that those same preachers then say that this means that Trump is good. But there is more then one way to understand what "good" in this case means. It can mean that Trump is here to do what the anti christ does, which is display just how crazy and corrupt the average citizen is. An example is people who are willing to vote for a pedophile, rather then allow the other party to gain some power. That is an indication that one's priorities are out of whack. So its good to have people woken up to their insanity by making the insanity very open and obvious.
And please don't now take my words to mean that I believe that Trump is the anti christ. I am not saying that. I am describing the actions of the anti christ.
At first I was against Trump.. and for that matter still am. But since he was elected I have understood what the Bible says about no leader has power without it being the will of God. I understand that sometimes God leaves us to our own devices because we have become so trapped that allowing us to suffer the consequences of our choices is the last resort possibility to wake a people up.
It is a falsehood to believe that the markets should control everything. Markets are not perfect. They are corrupt and can be controlled by corruption as my over the top description about a billionaire controlling access to all things nascar demonstrates.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Nov 22, 2017 - 08:18am PT
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Trump and his swamp creatures are screwing us every way conceivable
It's truly amazing that some are so brainwashed that they can't see what's going on.
Trump is so stupid that any special interest group can convince him to screw us for a couple bucks.
America Last!!
It'll take years to undo the damage he has caused, or it will just get worse and we will be no better than North Korea
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Nov 22, 2017 - 08:29am PT
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Even if you have access to a small local provider, companies that control the major routers will be able to throttle them back as well, unless they pay an extra fee for 'enhanced' access.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Nov 22, 2017 - 08:37am PT
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Jody, You're delusional. It is a handout to large corporations to buy control over smaller competitors ability to have an even presence and ability to compete based upon their merits.
The Forbes article is a terrible piece of writing and logic. I recommend that everyone read it to identify the illogical and self-interested arguments being made for allowing monopolistic manipulation of our free access to information.
At a fundamental level net neutrality is a liberty issue and corporate control of our free access to information diminishes our freedom. It's not right/left issue - it's a basic liberty issue.
Remedial reading for you - 1984 by George Orwell and Brave New World by Aldous Huxley (edited from George Orwell - coffee hadn't kicked in). If you read them with an open mind you will be shocked by the authors prescience.
To support this move is to support corporatocracy over meriticracy.
Fundamentally, our founding was based upon the idea of meritocracy as a counter to aristocracy. The concepts of commonwealth infrastructure in the US supported fulfillment of meritocracy where every individual had equal opportunity to rise to the level of their merit and service.
As a nation we used to understand this and that is how government came to limit the undue influence of monopolies via the Sherman Act of 1890 and the Clayton and FTC Acts of 1914. We now are in a similar position of undue corporate influence, but the political climate is different (perverted from protecting individual liberties and commonwealth assets and infrastructure?).
The Founding Fathers understood that true liberty exists only when present with personal responsibility. This is true for individuals and corporations.
Ayn Rand libertarianism is a subtle form of libertinism where there is no moral authority other than power. It is a theme that people pursuing this path will make very sophisticated arguments to justify their lack of responsibility for their actions and to civil society from which they have derived direct benefit from. Corporations up the game by leveraging governments to subsidize their business and consuming commonwealth assets without paying for them. These are perversions of taking responsibility for exercise of liberty.
Now we have a situation in our execution of the First Amendment where our freedom of access to information is for sale to the highest bidder. This betrays our founding ideals of liberty and abridges market competition based upon merit.
Libertrianism vs. Meritocracy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/09/22/libertarianism-vs-meritocracy/?utm_term=.80e62de60e88
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2017 - 08:47am PT
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Thank you Mark
You are spot on
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2017 - 08:53am PT
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However, if given the choice between giving the government more power and giving the markets more freedom, I would have to take my chances with the markets.
Jody, that is the heart of our current problem. You are putting your faith in "free markets" that aren't free, they're controlled by rich people who manipulate everything to make themselves more money, and dupe people like you into believing that you're actually more free when corporations are controlling your puppet strings.
The pendulum is swinging wa-a-a-a-ay too far towards "free markets."
Corporations are now "people" and have more rights than flesh-and-blood people.
Eminent Domain can now be used by private corporations to evict poor people to make way for private for-profit shopping centers.
Enough of this bull. Time to reign it in.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:10am PT
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Just to keep this conversation honest, in 2014 Obama's FCC appointee ALSO tried to end Net Neutrality. This isn't a partisan issue, it's a government being in bed with special interests issue.
Full disclosure: I didn't vote for either Trump or Obama.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:14am PT
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So I guess the conclusion is that we are screwed?
Pretty much. The content on the Internet will be corralled and controlled 99%, just like every other prior "news" medium.
Control the search and indexing first. "Google-it". Check. Makes it much easier to memory-hole events that don't fit the narrative.
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John M
climber
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:16am PT
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Great post Mark.. And thanks SLR, for starting this conversation.
Net neutrality insures freedom. It doesn't give control to government. It gives control to the people and takes it out of corporate hands.
Jody, not every law is evil simply because it comes from government. Surely as a retired law enforcement officer you realize this. Protecting the rights of its citizens is the highest action of a government. As SLR points out, there are vast parts of this country only served by one internet provider because it isn't cost effective to have more then one provider in an area. Doing away with net neutrality would allow that provider to decide what people should have access to. Imagine giving George Soros power over what you can access on the internet. It wouldn't have to be absolute blocks. It could be black outs during certain events where the signal goes in and out. "Technical difficulties". Or simply a slowing down internet speeds during certain evens so the the live stream goes in and out. The list of ways this could be harmful is tremendous. An equal level playing field is what net neutrality is all about.
Edit: come on people. Please don't make this about attacks on each other. And lets not make this about "obama" or "Trump". Its about whats right for the people.
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Starman
Trad climber
Sterling, MA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:27am PT
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Mark Force, thanks for bringing up these two writings. 'Brave New World', however was written by Aldous Huxley.
Good, important discussion, folks...
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:38am PT
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Starman, thanks! I certainly want to give Aldous Huxley his due. Coffee hadn't kicked in yet. Made the edit to that post.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:40am PT
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THE SKY IS FALLING!
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sempervirens
climber
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:44am PT
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My dilemma is I trust government regulators even less. So I guess the conclusion is that we are screwed?
Yeah, probably, we are screwed. But since the so-called free market is largely populated and controlled by those whose mission is profit why should we have more faith in it when compared to gov. regulation? Capitalism requires regulation, right? I think we'll agree on that, otherwise you get monopoly and capitalism collapses. Meanwhile, gov. regulation invites corruption. Then what happens when there becomes a merging of gov., industry, and media? That seems to be happening. Consumers get less choice, less freedom, less free market.
Why wouldn't industry leaders try to control gov. regulation? It's perfectly legal for them to write legislation and contribute to candidates who support their legislation.
Best we can do is be active and informed - which is not easy in my busy world. How 'bout we consider: ranked choice voting, national healthcare, move to amend (to negate Citizens United). I think the main problem is we won't have reasonable debate on those issues because the country is focused on the red herring of socialism vs. capitalism. Media get us all to focus on that by telling us who to despise. It's so easy to despise trump. And trumpers find it easy to despise libs. I believe it is this spite that motivates conservatives. It motivates libs too, but for conservatives spite is doctrine.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Nov 22, 2017 - 09:47am PT
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Jody, You're delusional.
It's not just Jody. Look at his exchange with John M above re anti-christ and all that. Two guys hung up in a 2000-plus year old myth or delusion - take your pick - as a core "truth" of their inner operating system. Is it any wonder we face the problems we do in this high tech era and can't as a collective solve them.
Trump. lol
I don't ask why we face these problems but why wouldn't we? - given the circumstances (states of mind, etc.) .
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Nov 22, 2017 - 10:01am PT
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"Very true and the statement gave me pause. However, if given the choice between giving the government more power and giving the markets more freedom, I would have to take my chances with the markets."
So, Jody, then you mean you SUPPORT net neutrality???
Because a neutral internet helps keep a market balanced and free for startups, young companies, and large companies alike.
Taking that away, as the proposal does, heavily biases the market toward incumbents. Giving the government, Verizon, Comcast, FB and the like a huge advantage. How is that making the market more free?
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 10:05am PT
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President Obama Urges FCC to Implement Stronger Net Neutrality Rules
That was after Americans threw a sh!tfit when his appointed FCC director tried to end Net Neutrality. Unfortunately this is the kind of thing that corporations keep trying to push through until voter/consumer fatigue sets in, and eventually they get it.
And again, I don't like this administration or that one.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 10:12am PT
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Lots of good comments here. The internet has become the vital means of communication worldwide and as such should be treated as a public utility with assurance that providers, whom we pay, don't start slowing down or blocking competitors. I do not have any television services from my provider (Charter Communications) and pay them only for internet access. That they might be able to throttle sites like Amazon, who is a competitor, is unacceptable.
Many of the internet providers are local monopolies; Seattle is a prime example, with regulation to actually keep out other providers, buttressed by the right of Comcast to deny other cable on phone poles. We are heading for a period of extortion by broadband providers.
We need more of this sort of thing (Benton County PUD):
In 2000, the Washington state legislature passed legislation enabling public utility districts (PUDs) to provide wholesale telecommunication services. PUDs are not authorized to provide telecommunication services to end users; instead, the law requires that utilities operate in partnership with retail service providers to connect customers to their networks. Benton PUD has been in the broadband business since 2002 and currently has over 350 miles of fiber-optic cable installed throughout Benton County. The District is a founding member and one of ten current owners of Northwest Open Access Network (NoaNet). NoaNet operates a world-class high-speed broadband network with over 3,000 miles of fiber-optic cables installed throughout the state including a major network hub located at Benton PUD’s offices in Kennewick.
Give Comcast et al some real competition.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
WA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 10:24am PT
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Good comments, Winemaker. I am a free market guy--but the market only works when there is competition. What's worse than getting screwed by a monopoly? What's worse than getting screwed by government? Easy answer. "Public-private partnerships" and exclusive, no-bid contracts. USFS anyone?
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 11:55am PT
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Things not quite right at the FCC comment site. From The HIll:
New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman (D) is investigating what he calls a massive scheme to corrupt the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) with fake public comments on net neutrality.
In an open letter to Federal Communications Commission Chairman Ajit Pai, Schneiderman said the agency hasn't provided him with information "critical" to an investigation his office is conducting.
Schneiderman said in a tweet his office has been investigating a "massive scheme" over the last six months to "corrupt the FCC's comment process on net neutrality by impersonating 100,000s of real Americans."
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2017 - 12:00pm PT
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Things not quite right at the FCC comment site You ain't kidding.
The FCC has made it nearly impossible for the public to comment on net neutrality. There is no direct link to the comment page. You have to do a search on the proceedings number (if you know it) and then follow a series of non-intuitive links to get to the proper page to leave a comment.
The link that I provided at the start of this thread was provided by a group that takes the public directly to the correct website.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 01:16pm PT
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In 2004, I was a marketing director working for a company selling gear to the incumbent local exchange carriers around the US- the local phone companies and Internet providers. My job was to reassure them that VOIP was not going to destroy their businesses. I did the best I could showing them the advantages they had by controlling the last mile and having a billing relationship with all the consumers in specific geographic areas...
But in my head, I thought the right strategy was to treat the last mile connection to each consumer’s house as a regulated monopoly. It doesn’t make sense to lay parallel copper or fiber or whatever physical transport technology to each house. There needs to be a way to share it among a variety of companies competing for your business.
Anyone who thinks Net Neutrality is anti-market is clueless about this industry. It can be perceived as “anti-market” for the local owner of the cable or DSL infrastructure, because it stops them from making a bigger profit. But without protections, you will see these companies become among the most powerful in the world, and all the other companies in every other industry will be bowing down to kiss their ring. They are in the path of all modern commercial activity, with the ability to collect more taxes (via kick-backs from companies they deign to let through to us consumers) than the US government.
Is that the market force you want to support? Locusts consuming all food until there is a collapse with nothing left, and locust swarm moves on. That is natural. That is Laissez-Faire. What we should want is a free market where buyer and seller have access to information to make good decisions, and they each have alternatives and can walk away from a transaction. That doesn’t happen in an end-state unregulated environment. No regulations means the bully wins and controls everything for his/her/its personal benefit. Regulations exist specifically to preserve desirable conditions that favor citizens. It has been an intellectual coup of the Republican Party, as a means of tricking its supporters, that “free market” is synonymous with “freedom from regulation.” Subtle word choice difference, but all the difference in the world in terms of ideology and end result.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Nov 22, 2017 - 01:46pm PT
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Freedom of the Corporations and Monopolies to screw you and taking away the means to fight back is what they really mean by free markets
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Lituya
Mountain climber
WA
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Nov 22, 2017 - 02:45pm PT
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A lot of the same propaganda re airline deregulation back in the day. Turned out to be a good call. No doubt, some collusion is infiltrating back in eg baggage fees, etc. “Sports Broadcast surcharge” anyone?
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Nov 22, 2017 - 03:26pm PT
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The difference between 2015 and now:
In Feb 2015 the FCC ended up voting PRO-net neutrality, voting 3-2 along party lines last week to apply Title II to cable and telecom companies that provide Internet service.
Wheeler actually listened to reason and 20 million comments.
In Nov 2017, trump and the FCC said "screw reason." We are here to sell out to the most corrupt swamp dwellers.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Nov 22, 2017 - 04:17pm PT
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I don't believe that God appoints ALL leaders, evil or not. What you described above about God allowing us to suffer the consequences of our choices is very true. He uses all leaders in one way or another to bless us, teach us lessons, whatever His plan is
Jody, I've got to hand it to you, that's the funniest thing you have ever said.
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GuapoVino
climber
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Nov 23, 2017 - 09:46am PT
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I didn't realize how much the cable companies have the world by the balls until I "cut the cord" and tried to figure out how to work around their monopoly. They control everything. I really hope they don't get control of the internet.
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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Nov 23, 2017 - 10:26am PT
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I hope that the Internet may be another third rail of politics. Don't mess with my likes. The trick for them may be to monetize access in a way that is only mildly inconvenient.
Is it possible to disseminate the infrastructure? Something like peer to peer network?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Nov 23, 2017 - 12:52pm PT
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IMO net neutrality is already gone. Google a topic and see lots of commercial sites.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Nov 23, 2017 - 08:06pm PT
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think how much worse it could be if the swamp creatures get their way.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Nov 23, 2017 - 09:20pm PT
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The FCC's been paid off before. What do you think Vice Presidents of Market Forecasting, who sit on various regulatory committees, are paid million dollar salaries to do? Lots of graft up there at the top. The courts are going to decide this.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Nov 24, 2017 - 01:02pm PT
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One regulatory decision in your favor up there at the FCC can make you hundreds of millions of $$$ with a new compulsory item of CPE (customer premises equipment) at the network interface (NI). It takes a heck of a lot of money to buy the right decision at the FCC that puts a gun to the Fortune 500.
This is going to be an interesting war to watch (if my pocket book wasn't involved).
It's really two pillars of Neoliberalism at work here (and not for the greater public interest): Deregulation and Privatization.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Nov 25, 2017 - 11:47am PT
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Damn, thank goodness for people who can analyze these comments for spamming, but the day will come soon when spam comments will be generated and be hard to detect.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Nov 25, 2017 - 03:13pm PT
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The "free market" consists of 10 VPs, who all sit on the same ANSI Committees and enact regulations that benefit the companies that put them there. They all know each other and compromise to reach decisions for their bosses' mutual benefits.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Nov 25, 2017 - 10:55pm PT
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This is just the tip of the Trump iceberg (and we're the Titanic).
Deregulation is indistinguishable from lawlessness. Big Corporations can't be trusted to regulate themselves, or act in the interest of society. Those corporations act in the manner of sociopaths and psychopaths.
Trump's entire administration is focused on deregulation. The false narrative is that America is being strangled by regulation, when, in fact, regulation is all that keeps big corporations from strangling the public.
Every time the government reduces regulation, big corporations take advantage in unethical, illegal and injurious ways. It's in the nature of their legal mandate to create shareholder value at the expense of everything else.
It is truly astonishing to me that after all the deregulation disasters that have occurred in the past few decades, that false narrative still carries weight with some people.
Chairman Pai, appointed by Trump, is the one spearheading the effort to dismantle net neutrality, in favor of unregulated monetization of the internet. Others at the FCC oppose Pai's proposal, but he has the force and weight of Trump behind the proposal. It is highly likely that every effort will be made by Trump and his cronies to end net neutrality, to the point of enacting illegal and unconstitutional laws (c.f. the muslim travel ban).
So, at this point, all we can hope for is that Jared Kushner "flips like a pancake", when Mueller tells him he's looking at twenty years in a Federal Penile Facility, and he turns on Trump to save his own ass.
Failing that, we're probably screwed until at least 2021.
Here's a brief blueprint for the First Horse Of The Apocalypse
Understanding Chairman Pai’s Proposal to Dismantle Net Neutrality
That document was prepared by FCC Commissioner Clyburn, who is a defender of net neutrality, and who is an opponent of Chairman Pai's proposal.
The American Empire has become unwieldy, and too large for one leader to effectively govern.
It is time to split the empire into two parts.
The East and West Coasts will be one part, governed by a reasonable president.
The Midwest will be another part, governed by King Trump.
The people who voted for Trump will get what they want, and the rest of us will get what we want.
The Coastal Empire will have net neutrality, and will exist in a lightly regulated, reasonably taxed environment.
The Middle Kingdom will no longer have fake news, and there will be no business taxes, no business regulation, no government interference, no government services, and it will be surrounded by a big wall.
Everyone will be happy.
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Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
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Nov 26, 2017 - 01:02pm PT
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Deregulation is indistinguishable from lawlessness.
But, of course, then there are the banks who want to go on a lending spree that will lead to a bigger financial meltdown than we witnessed in 2007. Goodbye Dodd–Frank! Let the good times roll!
Short-term greed, long-term disaster.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Nov 26, 2017 - 02:59pm PT
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Short-term greed, long-term disaster. Yeah, also 'Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.'
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Nov 27, 2017 - 08:14am PT
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How Democracy dies? Voter Suppression + Court Packing + Killing Net Neutrality
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/26/1718710/-How-Democracy-dies-Voter-Suppression-Court-Packing-Killing-Net-Neutrality
By A Siegel
Sunday Nov 26, 2017 · 3:43 PM PST
Virginians (and, well, the majority of Americans vicarious) felt rather good a few weeks ago. We turned out and turned many Republicans out of office while keeping a Democrat in the Governor’s mansion. It felt good .. but basking in the sun can’t last long while Donald remains in the Oval (or, well, anywhere he has access to the Football & with any power) as the threats and crisis seem never ending.
Sarah Kendzior has penned a painful — but must read — piece "Gutting net neutrality is a death knell for the resistance". It is a searing piece as Kendzior lays out how a series of GOP and Team Trump efforts could leave the 2017 Virginia election as perhaps one of the last truly democratic (even if flawed) elections in the United States.
Consider these pieces:
•Voter suppression almost certainly tilted Wisconsin, if not other states and the Electoral College, to Donald Trump. This was with an Obama Administration Justice Department actually interested in fighting voter suppression. Now, we have Jeff Sessions who sees enhanced voter suppression as the epitome of his life ambition, with a Trump-ista Justice Department lining up on the wrong side of voting rights cases and the Voting Commission working diligently to create excuses and justification for increased voter suppression. ◦Voter suppression will worsen ...
•The potential GOP packing of the courts such that by fall 2017 the majority of the Federal judges will have been appointed by Putin’s Puppet occupying the Oval Office. Let’s remember that Trump’s appointments have been more out of the mainstream than those W nominated (with many of them amazingly simply not qualified for the nomination based on (lack of) experience putting aside their fringe legal concepts). ◦Trump’s judges will not defend voting rights.
•The end of net neutrality will undermine the ability to communicate truth, enabling ever more domination of #AlternativeFacts and regime propaganda, and weaken the ability of those seeking to defend Democracy to communicate and organize. ◦Many will not know of voter suppression and the courts’ complicity in voter suppression … and it will be hard to mobilize public outrage as elections are manipulated/fixed to keep the GOP in power.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Nov 27, 2017 - 08:14am PT
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Nov 27, 2017 - 09:00am PT
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Voter suppression is legal , the result of having 24/7 Fox fake propaganda to scare and suppress less intelligent conservatives into voting against their best financial interests via higher medical costs , de-funding of social security , and higher internet service which is a tightening of the noose around free speech... It's not a stretch to conceptualize the russians jumping on board this propaganda train to attain results favorable to their national interest...
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 27, 2017 - 09:08am PT
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More empty headed loons posting total brainwashed horsesh!t.
Like the Russians are behind everything now.
You brainwashed idiots deserve everything you're getting since you refuse to even think clearly.
There's no hope for you loons.
Net neutrality has been killed years ago.
Youtube, Facebook, Google etc etc have been scrubbing the sh!t out of everything except brainwashing propaganda you brain dead loons regurgitate here daily.
Just check Google jigsaw for an example.
There's a ton of sh!t you haven't heard of it yet since you're all in the same brainwashed room .....
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Nov 27, 2017 - 09:16am PT
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There's a ton of sh!t you haven't heard of it yet Please tell us the sh#t we haven't heard yet, I want to know..
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Nov 27, 2017 - 09:38am PT
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I can't wait to hear the ton of sh#t brainwashing stories... Will it be the " Israel using tactical nukes " alternative news release..? Always good for a few laughs..
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 27, 2017 - 09:52am PT
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‘Jigsaw’ is an appropriate name for the former Google Ideas because jigsaws are crude tools. A mindful woodworker uses a coping saw.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 27, 2017 - 09:55am PT
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I can't believe someone hasn't called me racist for disagreeing with an Obama policy.
I can't believe you worship Mammon.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 27, 2017 - 09:59am PT
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You can see how the nutcase tool monolith spreads his horsesh!t again and again.
It's right there in front of everyone https://jigsaw.google.com/
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Nov 27, 2017 - 10:06am PT
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Oh, but veterans today explains the sinister real purpose of jigsaw.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 27, 2017 - 10:08am PT
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You're the one that's pointing to other web sites as sources not me.
I did not link any site.
See what a tool you really are ......
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2017 - 07:23am PT
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The FCC chairman said in the past 2 days that no amount of protesting or complaining is going to stop him from killing net neutrality.
Glad Trump's government is of the People, by the People, and for the People.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 30, 2017 - 09:05am PT
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War is peace. Hatred is love. Killing the Internet is "Restoring Internet Freedom"
https://wccftech.com/net-neutrality-abuses-timeline/
From the article:
2005 – North Carolina ISP Madison River Communications blocked VoIP service Vonage.
2005 – Comcast blocked or severely delayed traffic using the BitTorrent file-sharing protocol. (The company even had the guts to deny this for months until evidence was presented by the Associated Press.)
2007 – AT&T censored Pearl Jam because lead singer criticized President Bush.
2007 to 2009 – AT&T forced Apple to block Skype because it didn’t like the competition. At the time, the carrier had exclusive rights to sell the iPhone and even then the net neutrality advocates were pushing the government to protect online consumers, over 5 years before these rules were actually passed.
2009 – Google Voice app faced similar issues from ISPs, including AT&T on iPhone.
2010 – Windstream Communications, a DSL provider, started hijacking search results made using Google toolbar. It consistently redirected users to Windstream’s own search engine and results.
2011 – MetroPCS, one of the top-five wireless carriers at the time, announced plans to block streaming services over its 4G network from everyone except YouTube.
2011 to 2013 – AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon blocked Google Wallet in favor of Isis, a mobile payment system in which all three had shares. Verizon even asked Google to not include its payment app in its Nexus devices.
2012 – AT&T blocked FaceTime; again because the company didn’t like the competition.
2012 – Verizon started blocking people from using tethering apps on their phones that enabled consumers to avoid the company’s $20 tethering fee.
2014 – AT&T announced a new “sponsored data” scheme, offering content creators a way to buy their way around the data caps that AT&T imposes on its subscribers.
2014 – Netflix started paying Verizon and Comcast to “improve streaming service for consumers.”
2014 – T-Mobile was accused of using data caps to manipulate online competition.
NOTE: The current head of FCC in charge of policies to regulate these firms, was a lawyer for Verizon crafting some of the abuses above! Same pattern in every agency these days. #MAGA
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 30, 2017 - 09:20am PT
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what, you guys act like relatively unhindered web-based dissemination of information is important to informed participation in our democracy. sheesh, it's plainly obvious that it's all fake news anyway.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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There's another, more sinister aspect. When you lose net neutrality, it's not only the commercial competitors which can be blocked. It can also be used for political reasons. News, debates and other critical information can be diverted into those channels the net owners prefer - and others be harder to reach. Knowledge of the world outside USA will grow smaller still. (Not that it ever was any great interest in the first place.)
A small step each time, you'll hardly notice it. It will seem as the normal way to do things. While providing bread and shows for the people to keep them calm. A wellknown philosophy since thousands of years.
Let's dig this thread up in ten years time. Let's see what one thinks is normal by then. (I mean of course what you think is normal, Europe is moving in the opposite direction. At the moment at least.)
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WBraun
climber
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It's sooo simple.
Criminals want to over control everything so they can remain criminals .....
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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How will i know what happening if Veterans Today gets blocked...?
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Dec 14, 2017 - 12:48pm PT
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It’s gone now because of this Verizon shill asshat Ajit Pai.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The only hope to stop him and the ISPs are the states AGs that are planning to sue because of the fraudulent public comment process.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Dec 14, 2017 - 01:28pm PT
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Well it was nice, what we had, back in those Open days.
I heard that when you googled Pai (Pi redirects to either 3.145... or to the following):
steaming formless waste-pile, First Amendment attacker, Second Amendment attacker, Anti-discourse,
wait, they just changed it. Pai comes back as the first harmonious sounding of the Collective Mind. thank dog somebody did something about that lawless killdevil internet "community" of iniquity. No more of those devious types shall speak.
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Dec 14, 2017 - 02:20pm PT
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He will probably go back to Verizon to get a handsome reward. Why does the thoughts of Nuerenberg Trials keep coming up?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 14, 2017 - 02:31pm PT
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I’ll be interesting to see what he EU does in response. They have net neutrality laws for anyone who does business in the EU
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Dec 14, 2017 - 03:24pm PT
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Sorry to see Disney acquire so much of Fox. FX has had excellent series, but that may go away. Guess I'll have to subscribe to an internet provider along with DirecTV. Everything changes so rapidly for an old guy!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 14, 2017 - 04:57pm PT
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Net neutrality is gone. Feel the freedom coursing through your veins.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 14, 2017 - 06:02pm PT
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Hell-ooo ninth circuit.
BREAKING: The following states are suing Trump's FCC in order to preserve #NetNeutrality
💻California
💻Delaware
💻Hawaii
💻Illinois
💻Iowa
💻Kentucky
💻Maine
💻Maryland
💻Massachusetts
💻Mississippi
💻NY
💻North Carolina
💻Oregon
💻Pennsylvania
💻Vermont
💻Virginia
💻Washington
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Dec 14, 2017 - 08:05pm PT
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With this new freedom we will have the awesome choice between internet that is the online version of cable TV or no internet. Yay!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Dec 14, 2017 - 08:59pm PT
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Again, tell me when you look at the history of net neutrality, of our history, the DC Circuit upheld the 2015 decision. Why? Because it was based on solid legal ground. Title II, the clearest authority that we have — very little, if any, ambiguity. And now we’re going to short-circuit all of that and go back to a foundation, a legal premise, that has been thrown back, that is uncertain and that will ensure that we will have years and years of litigation and a probable reversal? Tell me, in a place where the majority is talking about certainty when it comes to regulations, tell me, how certain is that? Again, if I can appropriate what was said some time ago: a solution in search of a problem. We do not have a problem. We have clear legal authority that has been upheld. We are using the foundation that Congress enabled us through the Communications Act to codify, and now we’re shifting gears after the public has weighed in, after a number of businesses have built their models of service. We’ve got clear rules of the road that protect individuals, small businesses, and yes, even those large businesses, and now we’re about to reverse course on all of that, and send us, I believe, into this regulatory frenzy that it will be years for us to get out of. It absolutely, if I can borrow a phrase from somebody, is wrongheaded. We’re moving in the wrong direction, and I think December 14th will mark a very sad day in regulatory history.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Dec 15, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
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Vey interesting article below from The Intercept about building public/municipal broadband.
F%^k being stuck with Comcast or corporate ISPs that don't care about their subscribers. Internet access should be a utility service similar to electricity. The public needs to own it!
https://theintercept.com/2017/12/15/fcc-net-neutrality-public-broadband-seattle/
It may sound radical but it’s not unheard of. Today, around 185 communities in the United States offer some form of public broadband service. Because these services are controlled by public entities, they are also accountable to the public — a perk that anybody who has tried to get a broadband company on the phone can appreciate. (In November, residents of Fort Collins, Colorado, rejected an industry fear-mongering attempt and voted to authorize the creation of a citywide broadband network.)
.....In the aforementioned Colorado, 31 counties have pushed back, voting to exempt themselves from a state law prohibiting municipal broadband services.
Christopher Mitchell, director of the Community Broadband Networks Initiative at the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, has studied the systems that have popped up all over the country. He pointed out to The Intercept that these systems have far greater incentive to maintain net neutrality and that local control has some benefits people may not immediately consider.
“One of the things that we’ve seen with a hundred examples of municipal broadband is not only do people get the benefit of non-discriminatory access, they typically pay less, they have better access, and if something does go wrong, they get much better customer service,” he told The Intercept. |
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Dec 16, 2017 - 06:47am PT
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☼
I don't know where Lorenzo grabbed his quote listing the states that have filed suit against the FCC's decision on net neutrality, but it is a sad day when you see that the state of Mississippi being more progressive in their stance against such mindless decisions as your own state (Georgia).
There is no disrespect for Mississippi intended, but it is not known for being at the forefront of such actions.
I have two choices for an ISP and that is DSL service provided by AT&T and the alternative satellite service provided by DirecTV. Of course that is not much of an option since DirecTV is a subsidiary of AT&T.
Limited choice and control of access to information in America is nothing new. The precedent was set prior to this ingenious decision by the FCC on net neutrality with the birth of corporate control of media and limited access to information beginning with print media. This was followed by the advent of radio and television based solely on profit and political loyalty that was based on what was best for the corporation(s).
If you are interested in reading a saga of this control written in 1975, well before before anyone the birth of the internet, try David Halberstam's "The Powers That Be".
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 07:17am PT
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Blanket rejection of Goverment regulation with the push for Libertarian governance by sycophant legislators within the current framework of campaign finance law will always lead to the enrichment of the oligarchs by way of siphoning off the working class.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 09:35am PT
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Using automated scripts to access publicly available data is not "hacking," and neither is violating a website's terms of use.
yet this website (SuperTopo) states in its agreement that using automated scripts is not acceptable use, click on the Terms of Service page that you viewed and agreed to to obtain your account:
"You also agree that you will not use any robot, spider, other automated device, or manual process to monitor or copy any content from the Service. "
However, both SuperTopo and "Third Party Services" may be allowed to do just that... at the discretion of the site's owner, SuperTopo LLC.
it is amazing that the fiction of an "open market" in terms of Internet Service Providers seems to be invoked to justify the pull-back of regulation, at the same time that municipalities are restricted from providing public access because they would compete against the "commercial sector," a presumption that these public entities have an unfair advantage.
I don't have much choice in internet provider for broad band access, Infinity/Comcast is my "choice." It would have been great if the city of Livermore had included WiFi service when it switched it's public lighting to LEDs, so every street light was a portal to high speed internet, and all neighborhoods would have equal access.
But then Livermore couldn't ever decide to fluoridate its water...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 16, 2017 - 09:43am PT
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Izzit time for some lawyer jokes?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Dec 16, 2017 - 06:32pm PT
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I don't know where Lorenzo grabbed his quote listing the states that have filed suit against the FCC's decision on net neutrality, but it is a sad day when you see that the state of Mississippi being more progressive in their stance against such mindless decisions as your own state (Georgia).
http://fortune.com/2017/12/14/net-neutrality-fcc-lawsuit-ajit-pai/
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 20, 2017 - 06:05pm PT
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GB is, in fact, an absolute monarchy. Parliament exists at the discretion of the crown, and the crown is absolutely above the law.
That said, it's a benevolent monarchy, which is more than we can say for "our" "representatives."
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Dec 20, 2017 - 06:15pm PT
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GB is, in fact, an absolute monarchy
Bullsh#t.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 20, 2017 - 11:07pm PT
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GB is, in fact, an absolute monarchy
Bullsh#t.
Not.
You have only to go to the UK government site to see the facts. Among them, the Crown must agree to all legislation passed by Parliament. She officially opens and can on a whim close all Parliamentary sessions. She has absolute control over the Prime Minister. She is herself not subject to any laws passed by Parliament (nor anywhere else in the world, due to quirks of diplomatic law and her role as Head of State). I could go on and on, but here's a decent video summarizing her absolute powers. Of course, she chooses not to exercise even a fraction of her actual powers, because if the people felt that they were indeed under an absolute (and arbitrary) tyranny (which, really, they are), they would likely revolt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiDCwqpupj8&t=471s
The UK is not what most people think it is, particularly the subjects of the Crown. But the facade of democracy pretty much works, as long as the Crown is satisfied with the results of the process. But the people there are SUBJECTS, not represented in any more than the thin-process of "recommendation" to the Crown alone. That process could be withdrawn on a whim, although it almost certainly would not be (again, due to the risks of unmasking the actual realities).
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Dec 21, 2017 - 06:09am PT
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LOL, MB1! You had all this time to look it up and still got it wrong.
England is a Constitutional Monarchy.
Saudi Arabia is an example of an Absolute Monarchy.
You are the Cliff Clavin of ST. So sure of himself and can go on and on, yet so wrong.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 21, 2017 - 10:49am PT
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England is a Constitutional Monarchy.
You say the words, because you looked it up on Google, but you don't know what the phrase means, much less how it is actually applied to the way the UK works.
Another useless tangent with a lib who knows everything and recognizes no nuances. "Monolith" is a great handle for you, since your thinking is so monolithic.
See, two can play at the personal attack game. Stupid, isn't it? How about let's stick to ideas rather than personal attacks.
Back to Net Neutrality, regulating these monopolies seems to me one of the most crucial roles the federal government can play. These "regional" ISPs should be broken up like Ma Bell was, imo.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Dec 21, 2017 - 11:30am PT
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That said, it's a benevolent monarchy, which is more than we can say for "our" "representatives."
Bottom line, most people (myself included) are benevolent to the extent that it is convenient or has no personal consequences. When personal consequences enter the picture, benevolence becomes much more rare.
Here are examples of the similarities between UK and USA in terms of hiding assets for avoiding taxation or avoiding the bad public image of making profits off of things that hurt people:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/05/paradise-papers-queen-bono-kept-money-offshore-funds-leaked/
This is one of the Queen of England's hidden investments:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/irresponsible-loans-firm-brighthouse-ordered-11398741
Note in the first article, how many of Trump's inner circle and people in whom he entrusted great responsibilities for the United States of America are part of the fiasco. One might argue that is a good part of the tax law changes, that there will be less incentive now to hide assets offshore. But people will still hide assets because no taxes is better than 21% taxes. And now, when they want to make big luxury purchases in USA, they have a way of repatriating ill-gotten gains with less siphoning off by the USA gov't, less need for money laundering schemes like shady real estate deals.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Dec 21, 2017 - 11:50am PT
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Keep digging your hole deeper, MB1. Pleasure to watch.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 21, 2017 - 05:25pm PT
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Keep digging your hole deeper, MB1. Pleasure to watch.
Pffftt
Right back atcha. Since for you, it's apparently gotta be personal, and you repeatedly demonstrate that you cannot discuss without personal attacks, I can only say that I'm always saddened to see people whose "intellect" is limited to whatever they can "dig out" of Wikipedia, with no capacity for nuanced understanding.
Carry on.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 21, 2017 - 05:28pm PT
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Good points, imo, NutAgain! When "interests" of any sort emerge, altruism too often goes right out the window.
When I see things like the Comcast/Time-Warner merger even taken seriously by the FTC, and now Net Neutrality voted against (in the face of hundreds of thousands of citizen contacts urging it to be protected), I'm just disgusted by the Rebumblecons and the "hands off" perspective (that our founders did not share).
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Feb 23, 2018 - 09:32am PT
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https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/22/587896608/fccs-repeal-of-net-neutrality-on-track-to-go-into-efffect
The Federal Communications Commission is working toward officially taking current net neutrality rules off the books. The agency took the requisite formal step of publishing the rules on Thursday, opening the door for lawsuits from a number of state attorneys general and advocacy groups.
Senate Democrats have also been pushing for a special congressional vote to block regulations from going into effect, but have so far been one vote short of overcoming the Republican majority. A similar vote would also face a very high hurdle in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives....
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Feb 23, 2018 - 05:33pm PT
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Any meaningful legislation at the Federal level will have to wait until after the 2018 elections. The GOP is so fanatical in its fealty to major donors, they are willing to discard the Constitution and their own sacred policy positions to placate big business and wealthy people. Net neutrality is antagonistic to corporate monetization of the internet, so it is a high-value target. The only solution is to vote them out of office, which seems quite likely, given how Trump's supporters are beginning to recognize him as a deranged liar with a pro-one-percenter agenda.
California is poised to enact state-level legislation that would require net neutrality rules for any telecommunications companies doing business in those state.
In response to that (and other things) Trump says he is prepared to punish California by calling back border patrol guards, and allowing "Mexican rapists" to rampage and pillage the state.
Trump borrowed that tactic from Roman Emperor Caracalla, who turned his troops loose to sack the city of Alexandria because they had mocked him in a theatrical play.
Trump is Caligular and Caracallan. His sons are Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumber.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 16, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
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I do not give a rats azz about net neutrality unless the cute cat videos on YouTube start buffering and pixelating. That would suck.
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