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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 16, 2017 - 11:13am PT
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How would our national conversation differ from the one we are having now regarding the type of rifles, accessories and ammunition currently being used in the mass killings that have been occurring recently?
Common sense tells us that tampons don't kill; they are inanimate objects with no will of their own. But let's just pretend, for the sake of discussion. Don't ask for an explanation of facts surrounding “how” the tampons are being used to randomly kill in numbers – just assume that they are. I ask you to take an attitude of suspended disbelief, and consider the topic as outlined here.
After years of tampon use causing but a small number of deaths through Toxic Shock Syndrome, suddenly we are seeing a spike in deaths, with tampons being the weapon of choice. Only a few days ago, five more innocent people were killed; tampons being the weapon used in the crime. Just a few weeks ago, 26 were killed at their house of worship. Again, tampons were at the center of the carnage.
At this point, the tampons used for the murders have always been used by women, but it's probably only a matter of time before a man becomes the first to commit mass murder aided by tampons.
Women, are divided on the issue. The vast majority of women have used tampons regularly for years, and have never considered using the item in this horrible way. Women's Rights advocates are lobbying strongly against the very idea of curtailing a person's rights to gain access of tampons. They say that this is the government's way of repressing women as a whole, for without access to tampons, women will be at a disadvantage. Pads are uncomfortable and bulky, and many women feel squeamish at the idea of inserting a menstrual cup.
There are groups advocating the complete elimination of all feminine hygiene products related to the menses. Since it has been shown that tampons can be used with deadly force, it's not difficult for some to imagine that pads and even The Pill could be of similar evil use. They believe that lying at the heart of the matter is female rage, an emotion that has been simmering for decades in this country, perhaps even before the Declaration of Independence was drafted.
Some groups feel that tampons should be outlawed, or at least unable to be purchased without the woman holding a permit to have them, after going through a background check and purchasing liability insurance. Others argue that background checks might help reduce the deaths, but it is difficult to pinpoint the common denominators which causes a small minority of women to take tampons to a deadly level of destruction while so many others use them with no negative repercussions.
As I write, we have breaking news of yet another deadly tampon rampage. Details are unconfirmed, but the number is at least a dozen....(not a fact - I just needed to stop somewhere)
So....instead of high-powered, quick-shooting guns, the problem at hand is women on a rampage using tampons to kill.
I know that it sound silly(because it is, obviously) but as I asked early on – what if it were real? Would YOU:
Argue that women must have the right to access to tampons and their use without government interference? Or would you feel that the giving up the convenience of tampons is a small price to pay for the safety of our population? What if a Tampon-Rage massacre happened at your place of worship, civics club, local pub or even at the crag? What if one of the victims was the five year old child of your neighbor? Or your second cousin? A person from your old hometown who moved away to better their life? Your own child? Would you still feel that it is of the utmost that the rights of tampon-using women be untrammeled in the least?
What if a woman had a history of expressing anger or mental illness? What types of behavior constitute a red flag that woman might be at risk of using tampons for unbridled murder?
How many acts of Tampon Rage Murder must occur before you felt it had become an issue that required legal efforts to curtail? How many people must die before something need be done?
Note: I had this idea, and have just written the above onsight. Maybe I should have worked harder to make my statement, but....well, I know me, and it would end up like my novel - in a first draft and stalled at too many words and no sign of the highway exit ramp. So I submit it as it is.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 16, 2017 - 11:18am PT
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They also make an excellent fuse for Molotov Cocktails.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 16, 2017 - 11:47am PT
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This game is about trying to force people into a "logical" analysis of guns, apart from their emotional connection to guns and whatever symbols of power and masculinity might be attached thereto. Maybe trying to focus on freedom for intended use vs societal risks of non-intended use? I like better the analogy to personal freedom for smoking and the impact on people around who don't like the smoking and who can be injured by it. A cigarette has a radius of toxicity of several meters, and guns have a radius of toxicity of hundreds of meters. The logic that has made cigarettes increasingly illegal where other people can be impacted should apply even more so to guns.
But back to the world of tampon murderers... There are a few important considerations to flesh out in the hypothetical scene to give more nuanced answers:
1.Are the normal tampons used as-is for containing menstruation (intended use) and to kill people (unintended use), or must they be modified in order to kill people?
2. Can the modifications be conducted by a person with little skill and experience, and are the supplies to do so readily available?
Simple analysis: It should be a societal cost/benefit analysis with consideration for personal alternatives. Given that there are alternative ways to deal with menstruation that don't enable societal massacres, outlaw the tampons already!
If the tampons must first be modified before they are deadly, and if there is a low barrier to performing these modifications (e.g. supplies readily available and only moderate skill required), then again I say outlaw them. There is no effective way to regulate against them being abused, except to stop making them.
The only scenario in which I might not be for outlawing them, but instead focus on regulating the manufacture of them, is if modifications are required to make them deadly and these modifications require advanced skills and materials that can be readily tracked.
Bringing this back to the real world... stopping the large-scale manufacture of guns would certainly reduce the health risk for public gatherings and home accidents. But the alternative products for personal defense are not as compelling (Taser? Pepper Spray?), and so the analogy does not hold up as well comparing with the deadly tampons.
A more analogous question in the Deadly Tampon world would be "what if Deadly Tampons were also the only way to stop monthly menstruation from becoming a bloody mess?" People would look hard for alternative solutions because the problem is glaringly obvious. In our world of guns, maybe we need to step back and say "what problems are guns trying to solve?" and then focus more energy on trying to solve those problems in ways that don't lead to large-scale massacres.
And the other genie that is already out of the bottle: guns can be 3-D printed, so it will be utterly impossible to eliminate them. Ammunition will be trickier, and maybe more worthy of regulating the manufacture of and policing/enforcing against the possession of.
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Nov 16, 2017 - 11:53am PT
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TOXIC SHOCK SYNDROME.
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John M
climber
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Nov 16, 2017 - 12:10pm PT
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Its.. MASS TOXIC SHOCK SYNDROME..
anyone notice how PMS has an M in it? Just like MASS TOXIC SHOCK SYNDROME. I think I'm on to something. OMG.. it also has a S in it. PRE MASS TOXIC SHOCK SYNDROME. PMTSS.. its coming to a coffee klatch near you.
.....
pretty funny stuff Happi.. not certain that the audience that needs to understand it will understand it, but still funny.
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craig morris
Trad climber
la
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Nov 16, 2017 - 12:12pm PT
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I feel like it is still to soon "\(';')/"
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Nov 16, 2017 - 12:17pm PT
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Godwin's law corollary #1 (Trump Variant)
It only took 5 posts for Trump to be mentioned in an online discussion.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 16, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
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If you take an AR from a nutter you will have to give him a maxipad
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 16, 2017 - 01:49pm PT
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That’s pretty damn funny DMT :)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nov 16, 2017 - 02:23pm PT
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who signed the bill reversing the rule that those with mental illness couldn't buy guns
Nice narrative, but it misrepresents the truth. The original order, which Trump rescinded, authorized the Social Security Administration to give the names of people who bureaucrats deemed to be mentally unstable to the FBI so they could be listed in the NCIS database and thus fail a background check without due process or the ability to appeal. Personally I don't care much for unaccountable minions in a government agency to have the power to declare me, or anyone else, incompetent without due process or a means of appeal.
And it wasn't a bill. That requires an act of Congress.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 16, 2017 - 02:57pm PT
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No one is having a meaning full discussion! Asshats in charge are Republicans,
so
there will be no new laws banning guns or mindless ability to get a gun . . .
or a car or a garrote
(The Killing. death & carnage will not stop, ask why? Human nature)
https://www.google.com/search?q=garrote&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS763US763&oq=garrote&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Real world politics the NRA runs the show.
They have their nation spokespeople to curb any discussion.
They have an active chapter down the street from the place where
One totally mal-adjusted youth shot up a bunch of children,
and nothing was done.
We will now see carnage at a rate of one mass act of violence a week,
to provide the heat , We are all that frog, in the ever increasing pot of boiling water
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nov 16, 2017 - 03:03pm PT
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I consider it more than adequate to prevent someone from buying guns if they themselves seek SS benefits due to mental illness.
So do I. My understanding is that the net was much bigger.
It was an executive order in the first place, yes? Why did Congress have to act? Trump could have done it alone. I'm not saying they didn't, just curious.
I have to get my dog to the vet so I can't read through your links right now, so for the time being I'll stand corrected. Or maybe for more than just the time being.
In any case your post implies that he signed a bill allowing people, as in all people, with mental illness to buy guns.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Nov 16, 2017 - 03:50pm PT
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The OP was a WoT. I won't abide a WoT.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 16, 2017 - 05:59pm PT
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^yeah dude! feel very threatened by the dentate vagine^
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 16, 2017 - 06:31pm PT
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Have a light day!
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Nov 16, 2017 - 10:18pm PT
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BACK ON TOPIC:
The RELY brand of tampons were strongly associated with toxic shock syndrome in the early 1980s.
RELY tampons killed people. Proctor and Gamble was forced by the CDC to stop selling them.
TAMPONS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.
It was the Proctor and Gamble wizurds who killed those innocent women.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 16, 2017 - 10:32pm PT
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A Fish Called Wanda flashed through my head as I pondered how a tampon might be used in an aggressive manner...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Nov 16, 2017 - 10:52pm PT
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it's also interesting to consider something that kills and maims americans even more than guns:
automobiles.
~2000 children killed annually [~1.5X more than guns]
~2.3 million injuries annually [~30X more than guns]
not pointing this out to argue any position. point is only that it might help to bring some understanding of those who we disagree with, by understanding the circumstances where we just move on with life and accept the carnage as part of our collective lives... in no small part due to the value that we place on what, in this case, automobiles, brings to our lives.
doesn't mean we won't continue to disagree... just that if we're going to move past black and white partisanship that attempts to make the other side look stupid, we need to see the grey in our own position.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 17, 2017 - 05:20am PT
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Happiegrrrl2
Comparing guns to tampons is f-ing retarded. DO yourself a favor and delete your moronic thread.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 17, 2017 - 05:24am PT
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I think supertopo has officially jumped the shark.
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mikegrai
climber
ON
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Nov 17, 2017 - 05:28am PT
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If "moronic" gets your panties in a twist, a certain Twitter feed should have you in a permanent state of apoplexy. A victim of excessive literalism, perhaps?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 17, 2017 - 05:42am PT
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My panties go up my crack, the don't get twisted, thank you
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mikegrai
climber
ON
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Nov 17, 2017 - 05:47am PT
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If you can demand the OP take down her thread, I can take a gentle poke at you for intellectual laziness.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 17, 2017 - 07:43am PT
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^^^ and in the USA we have to pass a written test and a practical field test before we are authorized to use a car, because of the lethal potential and sense of responsibility we have toward others. Furthermore, we are required to have insurance to pay for the life and property we might destroy or diminish.
That paints our gun regulatory framework in a more damning light.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 17, 2017 - 11:07am PT
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you prefer the diva cup?
VV this is mainly a T poisoning thing I reckon VV
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 17, 2017 - 11:34am PT
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I prefer to think about what the world could be and chart a course toward achieving that, than to live in a little box of what is and losing perspective on what could be.
Dingus, I don't think anyone is forgetting about the 2nd amendment. It is a vaguely worded expression that can be cited in support of directly opposing ideas, depending on which clause one chooses to make superior. There is no self-contained universal interpretation, and if we cite historical frames of reference for the Framer's intentions, then we must take in the historical framework and apply constraints that existed at the time of the Framer's conception, including the limits of technology (e.g. no automatic weapons, no large clips, no silencers, no laser guides, no RPGs). If you don't want to impose those historical limits, then you have to leave open that the Framer's were not able to consider our modern predicaments and as such the text of the 2nd Amendment should not be the immutable and inviolable rule of our society.
A good read for a legal introduction to the debate:
"Constitutional Law: Rights, Liberties and Justice 8th Edition"
https://books.google.com/books?id=CmPKNI2z5-AC&pg=PA396#v=onepage&q&f=false
The 2nd Amendment cannot be an excuse to stop exercising reason or to seek a better life for us all. An implicit part of any moral or legal issue, when a freedom is exercised by one person, is the context of what harm that freedom might cause to other persons and an attempt to find a balance. The exact rights granted by, and the circumstances in which they apply, are still being debated for the 2nd Amendment. It is an important context and relevant constraint but far from a defining law that forbids further inquiry.
The questions are: (1) can we articulate what problems we are trying to solve; (2) can we define workable solutions; and (3) can we chart a path toward workable solutions that acknowledge current realities, namely that we can't effectively reclaim all the guns that are already widely spread. This is the context in which the ongoing interpretation of the 2nd Amendment should be conducted.
Here is a snapshot of how our society perceived gun rights a few years back, and this deeply colors our politics and whom we elect, and these people choose the judges that interpret what the 2nd amendment means.
Too bad they didn't slice the data by population density or personal/family experience of violent crimes. That might provide more insight into the distribution of beliefs in our society.
It's becoming increasingly irrelevant what we all believe though, because we are all putty to be shaped by the owners and manipulators of media, beyond truth and reason.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 17, 2017 - 11:40am PT
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They did an excellent job with The Bill of Rights in 1789. Only two of the ten amendments are in need of being further amended...the second and the third. The third can just be completely done away with. The second needs some serious work....it’s not 1789 anymore folks!
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 17, 2017 - 01:11pm PT
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if tampons are outlawed only outlaws will use tampons. just think of that.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Nov 17, 2017 - 02:18pm PT
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What percentage of gun owners are members of a well-trained militia?
If you own a gun and do not regularly train with a militia, then you have ZERO constitution right to bear arms.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 17, 2017 - 02:26pm PT
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what about the irregular fixed anchor militia of central bongville?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 17, 2017 - 02:27pm PT
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Which is the most out of date amendment the second or the third? Anyone here billeting troops in their spare bedroom?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 17, 2017 - 05:10pm PT
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The basement guns that made it through the "assault weapons ban" suggest that legislative solutions need not hinder the backwards-minded among us (self included).
I suspect that the greater solution to this mess is to address the problem of T poisoning, rather than specifically to have the state count bullets, barrel lengths, etc.
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