Al Franken...

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thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 7, 2017 - 09:50am PT
it's almost like his colleagues on the same side of the aisle did not value him due to his unconventional, unserious rise to power. it is almost like they think that they can pull many female votes by taking the high road here. the female candidate for POTUS did so well woth this, why wouldn't it work well this time around? it's like deja vu all over again, the song that never ends, the party of the golden rule (and no majority), etc.

I think i will be changing my registration to independent.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Dec 7, 2017 - 10:31am PT
Sad situation. It became clear it had to happen.

IMO, taking this “high road” will have no long lasting effect, beyond a short term, Dem, self patting on the back about how virtuous they are. As well, as the use of sound bites in the next election, about the moral high ground the Dems took.

It seems that we’ve reduced our values in our country to money being the determiner of all that is good and worthy.

As for the effect of the resignation on bolstering the Dem image, “no good deed goes unpunished” comes to mind.

I’ve always registered independent or decline to state. I’m about to register “anarchist” if that becomes available.

Now back to regular scheduled programming on Jerusalem.

Susan.





Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 7, 2017 - 10:46am PT
It's a drag because we reall need him right now. He brought it on himself, and us, though.

" just put Rambo back inside your pants!" -The Dead Kennedys
Mei

Trad climber
mxi2000.net
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:18am PT
He brought it on himself, and us, though.
In this case, he is a victim of the #metoo movement. I read about four of the accusations and each one of them is just ridiculous. Yes, I said it.

I quote a comment I read somewhere else, "He had a target on his back because he was the Democrats' toughest bulldog. " Having read his books, I believe in his integrity and genuine intention to serve the people. Because of that, I can understand his decision to step down. Once he realized that he had lost effectiveness in his governing capacity, he's not one to cling on to power.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:21am PT
There really will be no political negative from Franken resigning the Senate.

Minnesota Democratic Governor Mark Dayton will appoint a Democrat who will be just as supportive of Democratic policies and votes as Franken in the Senate.

The only loss will be on the committees Franken serves on, but he will be replaced by another Democrat.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:24am PT
gotta agree with Mei on this.

the man owned up to every allegation, addressed them all, refuses to respond with blanket denials. If the Dems cannot understand the degrees of difference between, say, badgering girls under 16 from the photo-op grazed buttocks, or the ability of Mr. Franken to respond sensibly when a woman says no to "aggressive/forcible kissing" then the Dems can sink and slither and slide and fail like they have done for the past, uhh, nearly two decades, well then let 'em keep on keepin' on....LOSING.


yeah Norton, NO, there is a lasting political effect. It's called public opinion. Accepting responsibility LOSES confidence. Yes it is honorable to "do the right thing" here.


Do you notice any difference from the Republican strategy of deny, deny, deny, "those bitches are scheming political operatives," etc.?

The sick, divided, talk-radio/Fox-poisoned court of public opinion (overall) sees Franken as worse than Moore or Trump.

Let it burn.

F*#k the Dems, f*#k their lame limp-dick strategy of taking the highroad. It never worked* in the past, it will not work this time.


*in the sense of political machination

Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:27am PT
I don't really like the guy but in terms of

I believe in his integrity and genuine intention to serve the people.

I agree.

I think is resignation will make it harder for the Senate to forget or forgive the sins of others, as well.

Cheers
DMT
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:30am PT
Really? We're talking about a House and Senate that refuse to address the bragart'ed sex assaults of the POTUS. Def disagree with you DMT, but I wish I thought you were correct.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:32am PT
We'll see, my friend. Chip away at the stone, its' all we got.

DMT
dirtbag

climber
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:34am PT
I’m glad he is resigning.

Meanwhile:

I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant, and therefore I’m inspecting it…they’re standing there with no clothes, ‘Is everybody okay?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that”


“women”-ha.

That’s our president, bragging about how he can barge into dressing rooms where half-naked miss teen USA contestants were dressing.

That dirty old man has gotten a pass.

“Drain the swamp”: what a pathetic joke.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:39am PT
right dirtbag, and yet.....it seems that our staunch and morally superior Democrats in the house colluded in the massive failure to impeach yesterday.....


so, yeah, not so sure why I (or anyone) should care about a Dem less at the levers of political sausage grinding.



Again, as Rutger Hauer said in the finest American film of the 1990s, "Let it burn"


Flynn's testimony will never put any of the Drumpfs in jail, and so our best hope is to get the f*#ker out now. And yet Pelosi and Hoyer and the whole house kinda, uhh, said this, yesterday: "now is not the time to consider articles of impeachment."


So when is the time? Should I keep crossing my fingers that Bobby Three Sticks will put together the puzzle by year 7 of the Drumpfness? Or should I just keep rock climbing and spreading Pussy Proclamations?
Credit: bgw
I prefer the latter, as it requires less investment of hope, less serious consideration of GTFO'ing, etc. And watching people pull the sheet off their windshield, read and look around in disgust is pretty damn entertaining anyway.

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:51am PT
any reasonable person that gives a damn about confronting sexual abuse and predatory behavior by men.....I mean, c'mon, the dude SAID THAT.

Where is our legislature? We know damn sure that the churches, the electorate, no one else is going to do anything about it.

And yet.... "now is not the time..."

F*#k the Dems. And F*#k Franken too for shorting us on this...




And with respect, DMT, chipping away at the stone has been the modus of the Ms. crowd since, say, 1965. Don't see much progress that way. TRUNDLE THAT SH#T
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:52am PT
the man owned up to every allegation, addressed them all, refuses to respond with blanket denials

That's not what I heard in his speech today.

But in responding to their claims, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously. I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that in fact I haven’t done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently. I said at the outset that the Ethics Committee was the right venue for these allegations to be heard and investigated and evaluated on their merits, that I was prepared to cooperate fully and that I was confident in the outcome.

If that statement is truthful he should not have resigned.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 7, 2017 - 11:56am PT
My point is that Franken does not offer blanket denial. My point is that yielding power to, effectively trading seats with, a sick anti-constitutionalist child predator does nothing besides earn some imaginary brownie points.

kudos Dems, maybe there'll be a Merit ribbon for it. The Belly Up Badge, or maybe the Badder Men Win Badge.


Does no one in the House understand that realism is the f*#king way of the world? Or do they, like Ivanka and Jared, hold cash/influence/power closer than morals?
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Dec 7, 2017 - 12:00pm PT
And with respect, DMT, chipping away at the stone has been the modus of the Ms. Crowd since, say, 1965. Don't see much progress that way.

Maybe you weren't around in '65? I think there has been tons of progress.

But anyway,

Respect to you too,
DMT
John M

climber
Dec 7, 2017 - 12:01pm PT
I thought some of his resignation speech was good, but also thought his "not remembering it that way" was convenient. He liked to grab women's asses. He should have come clean. Though I do understand that people blocking out the memory of ones own bad behavior is common.

We are in a strange time. To stand for a principle, then you have to clean house. And sometimes the good gets thrown out with the bad.

the best way forward is to come clean, and then the people can decide if they believe that there is a change of behavior and attitude, or not.

I wish that the republicans would require that of their people too.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 7, 2017 - 12:05pm PT
Sure, you have a point DMT. I am a child of Reagan. It just seems like maybe, uhh, not enough progress has been achieved. Witness the: "you can do whatever you want" [to women] POTUS. I'd call that a backslide over the ERA-signer in office in '65.

Sure LBJ pissed in a sink while dictating a statement to a woman on a typewriter, sure he philandered and f*#ked and cheated. But he never made claims, visible to our pubescent males, that "you can do whatever you want."
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 7, 2017 - 12:07pm PT
I'm not talking about standing for a principle John M, I'm talking about ceasing to lose.

No one cares that the House vote was landslide in favor of retaining our sex-abuser in chief?


seems to me John (respectfully) that you place a lot of stock in the *wish* that we all played nice, politically. seems to me John (again, just shooting the sh#t here) that you have a lot more faith in "the people" than I do.
John M

climber
Dec 7, 2017 - 12:26pm PT
I have more faith in God, then the people. I believe that things will come right, but that right now we are in terrible times as God is allowing us to reap what we have sown. So we get a commander in chief who is despicable. But that is because we have allowed terrible behaviors. By "we", I don't mean necessarily you, but the greater we of we the people.

I see hope in the fact that women are finally being able to speak out in large enough numbers that things are changing. But I also realize that change sometimes happens slowly and it certainly doesn't happen all at once. There are people who are completely stuck in poor behavior. And their are others who are blind. I do though attribute some of women's willingness to speak up to the election of Trump. His over the top treatment and belittling of women is in part the straw that broke the camel's back. So even in bad, good things can come about. Its sad that we still need to learn lessons this way. but I still see people learning. As they become the majority, then we will see better leaders. Until then, we have to suffer through leaders like Trump.

I'm not surprised that Trump was not impeached. Though you and I find him disgusting, much of our leadership is still beholden to money and the power mongers, and until a law is proven broken, he won't be impeached.
Mei

Trad climber
mxi2000.net
Dec 7, 2017 - 12:27pm PT
He liked to grab women's asses. He should have come clean.

That's what I don't believe. One woman accused him for grabbing her from behind after she stood in line for a photo op with him (taken by her husband) at a state fair before he was elected a senator. Another woman accused him for cupping her breast after she stood in line for a photo op with him on a USO tour and all the photo she could produce was one where his hand was firmly on her back and did not appear to be elastic enough to be able to extend all the way around her side to reach her front.

These are events where there were many eye witnesses (they waited in line to have photo taken!), no power intimidation at play that would have prevented the women from speaking out right then and there, and an on-the-spot accusation would have done damage to his image for what he was doing at the moment. Because of that, I believe whatever those women accused him of now was not his intention then, and might not even be true.

His jokes of poor taste and sometimes overly-tight hugs do not put him in a worse category than all the men I have met whose eyes follow a hot chick who happens to be walking by, oftentimes mid-conversation and without their own realization that they are doing it. I doubt many (or most) man who post here hold a higher moral ground than Mr. Franken.

The reason I participate in this thread is because I'm fearing the power of #metoo movement for the future of the country. It can be exploited, and it has been.
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