Rancho Tehama Multiple Shootings

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rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Nov 14, 2017 - 06:58pm PT
Perfect...
xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:02pm PT
Credit: xCon
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:05pm PT
Isn't it strange how mentally ill criminals are actually locked up in other countries?


Still waiting on a proposed law from one of you geniuses that would prevent these tragedies.


Won't hold my breath...
xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:21pm PT
Credit: xCon
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:24pm PT

zBrown, yes, you are right. Guns and cars are different. Guns are protected by the Constitution, cars aren't.

Read what the Supreme Court has said about the restrictions that may be placed on guns, the Second Amendment notwithstanding.

On pp. 54 and 55, the majority opinion, written by conservative bastion Justice Antonin Scalia, states: “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited…”. It is “…not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

“Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

Taxing them is certainly permitted by this standard.
-Doc Holiday






Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:26pm PT



So we’ve only got about 300 million guns in this country now—what exactly would be the ideal number of guns that we need in order to see overall gun violence and the number of massacres drop to levels similar to what they have in Canada, the UK or Australia?

Would it take another 200 million guns? 300 million? Maybe we should provide subsidies to gun manufacturers so more people can more easily afford more guns?

What is wrong with those dummies over there?! Why didn’t those Canucks, Brits or Aussies do this? It’s so obvious!
xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:28pm PT
universal background checks
require libality insurance for possession
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:31pm PT
universal background checks
require libality insurance for possession

Background checks are ALREADY required.

So, you think a criminal would be first in line to buy that liability insurance?

xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:33pm PT
UNIVERSAL background checks

as for cases when mentally ill individuals or criminals commit a mass shooting, the liability law would work even if they didn’t have liability insurance for their guns. “By insisting that, for uninsured guns, the last good insurance pays out, we avoid the problem,” says Gear. “Suddenly sellers have an interest in avoiding sales to nut jobs, and they determine for themselves how much of an appetite for risk they and their insurance carrier will have.”


https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianahembree/2017/10/04/insurance-companies-should-not-get-a-pass-on-gun-violence/#1ff9f0e45277
xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:36pm PT
Fire arm insurance
by John Gear


We can fix the gun problem. We can make America safer, without limiting 
our right to bear arms. And we can do it without an expensive, dangerous,
and futile "War on Guns."
To solve the real problem (keeping guns out of the wrong hands-without
restricting other people) we must use an idea that has worked to limit
losses from many other hazards: insurance. That's right, insurance, the
system of risk-management contracts that lets people take responsibility
for choices they make that impose risks on others.
Insurance is what lets society accommodate technology. Without it, we
would have few autos, airplanes, trains, steamships, microwaves, elevators,
skyscrapers, and little electricity, because only the wealthiest could
accept the liability involved. When people are accountable for risks
imposed on others, they act more responsibly. Insurance is what enables
this accountability.
Rather than trying to limit access to or take guns away from law-abiding
adults, we must instead insist that the adult responsible for a gun at any
instant (maker, seller, or buyer) have enough liability insurance to cover
the harm that could result if that adult misuses it or lets it reach the
wrong hands.
Who gets the insurance proceeds, and for what? The state crime victims'
compensation fund, whenever a crime involving guns is committed or a gun
mishap occurs. The more victims, the bigger the payout. The greater the
damage (from intimidation to multiple murders and permanent crippling), the
greater the payout. The insurers will also pay the fund for other claims,
such as when a minor commits suicide by gun or accidentally kills a
playmate with Daddy's pistol. This will reduce such mishaps. Insurance is
very effective in getting people to adopt safe practices in return for
lower premiums.
When a crime involving a gun occurs, the firm who insured it pays the
claim. If the gun is not found or is uninsured (and there will still be
many of these at first) then every fund will pay a pro-rated share of the
damages, based on the number of guns they insure. This will motivate
insurance firms--and legitimate gun owners--to treat uninsured guns as
poison, instead of as an unavoidable byproduct of the Second Amendment.
Thus, insurance will unite the interests of all law-abiding citizens, gun
owners and others, against the real problem with guns: guns in the hands of
criminals, the reckless, the untrained, and juveniles.
Like other insurance, firearm insurance will be from a private firm or
association, not the government. Owners, makers, and dealers will likely
self-insure, forming large associations just as the early "automobilists"
did. Any financially-sound group, such as the NRA, can follow state
insurance commission rules and create a firearms insurance firm.

That's it. No mass or government registrations. Except for defining the
rules, no government involvement at all. Each owner selects his or her
insurance firm. By reaffirming the right to responsible gun ownership and
driving uninsured guns out of the system, we use a proven,
non-prohibitionist strategy for improving public safety.
Each insurance firm will devise a strategy for earning more revenue with
fewer claims. Thus gun owners -- informed by the actuaries -- will choose
for ourselves the controls we will tolerate, and the corresponding
premiums. (Rates will vary according to the gun we want to insure, our
expertise, and claims history.)
Some will want a cheaper policy that requires trigger locks whenever the
gun is not in use; others will not. Hobbyists will find cheaper insurance
by keeping their firearms in a safe at the range. Newer, younger shooters
and those who choose weapons that cause more claims will pay higher
premiums. That way, other owners, with more training and claims-free
history, will pay less. (Insurance companies are expert at evaluating
combined risks and dividing them up-in the form of premiums-with exquisite
precision.)
Soon, the firms will emphasize cutting claims. That means promoting gun
safety and fighting black market gun dealers, which is where many criminals
get guns. And every legitimate gun owner will have a persuasive reason --
lower premiums -- to help in the fight.

We need to start discussing this now, because it will take several years
to enact. Gun-control advocates will hate this because it forsakes the
failed prohibitionist approach. But the evidence is clear: there is
virtually no chance that prohibiting guns can work without destroying our
civil liberties, and probably not even then.
And the organized gun lobby will hate it too, because most of their power
comes from having the threat of gun prohibition to point to. But again the
evidence is clear: we have the current gun laws -- ineffective as they are
    because we have neglected a right even more important to Americans than
the right to bear arms: the right to be safely unarmed.
Naturally, many gun owners will resent paying premiums, because they
resent assuming responsibility for risks that, so far, we've dumped on
everyone else. So be it. It is only by assuming our responsibilities that
we preserve our rights. Some will note that the Second Amendment doesn't
include "well-insured." But, just as the press needs insurance against
libel suits to exercise the First Amendment, we must assume responsibility
for the risks that firearms present to society.
The problem is real, even such prohibitionist strategies are doomed to fail,
even if passed. Sadly, some pro-gun groups have already revved up their own
mindless propaganda, blaming Springfield on liberals, TV, Dr. Spock, "bad seeds,"
you name it -- anything but the easy access to guns that made massacres
like Springfield so quick, so easy, and so likely.
This won't work instantly -- but it will work, because it breaks the
deadlock about guns and how to keep them away from people who shouldn't
have them, without stomping on the rights of the rest of us. Thus it
changes the dynamics of this issue and ends the lethal deadlock over guns.
It's time for everyone, people seeking safety from guns and law-abiding
gun owners alike, to work together to fight firearms in the wrong hands,
and it's time to fight with FIRE: Firearm Insurance, Required Everywhere.

http://prorev.com/idguns.htm
Jody

climber
Occupied Territory
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:40pm PT
so xCon...all the law-abiding citizens pay for the criminals who will NOT be insuring their guns...dumb idea.

Also, there is nothing about liability insurance for guns that would prevent tragedies...try again.

By the way, background checks didn't stop the Texas church shooter.
xCon

Social climber
909
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
your carrying on AS IF the person who provides the weapon to a criminal has no responsibility


that's a COP out...
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:49pm PT
Watch Jim Jeffries' comments on gun control in one his concert videos
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:55pm PT
your carrying on AS IF the person who provides the weapon to a criminal has no responsibility

The Air Force (a Federal agency if ever there was one,) completely screwed the pooch by failing in their obligation to report his prior conviction and imprisonment to the FBI. Universal background checks only work if the NCIS actually gets the right information.

So, if anyone is culpable for Mr. Texas buying his gun, it's our own Federal government.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:56pm PT
Universal background checks aren’t universal. Us California boys can always go to one of those Nevada gun shows if we feel the need for a SCAR 17 with a couple dozen 30 round clips.

And of course if one proposed gun law wouldn’t have prevented just one particular killing (or all killings) then it is obviously a completely useless law—gun laws must be perfect or what’s the use.



On pp. 54 and 55, the majority opinion, written by conservative bastion Justice Antonin Scalia, states: “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited…”. It is “…not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

“Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”


not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever

Outlawing all semi-automatic weapons would also be a good starting point.
nah000

climber
now/here
Nov 14, 2017 - 07:56pm PT
imo/e:

 prohibition does not/has never successfully put any kind of dampener on collective addictions [ie. in many cases prohibition of the dependency laden has arguably made the prohibited more readily available]
 unlike the citizens of other nations [who have their own collective problems], americans are [in general/as a whole] psychologically addicted to guns [ie. the prohibitions that have worked in other countries will not necessarily work in the u.s.]
 one can’t predicate a nation in part on the exploitation of the other [whether internal or external to the borders of said nation] and not have an in general/as a whole collective psychological imbalance regarding the notion of what will or will not bring “security.” ie. in sum: without concurrent digging to the roots of the u.s.’, current psychological dependency on guns, the creation of more gun laws, in and of themselves, will do little to “solve” the current complications found in the present.
QITNL

climber
Nov 14, 2017 - 08:00pm PT
Please take a brief break from the sniping and recognize some bravery. Here's a a shout-out to the teachers and and staff at the school which was targeted senselessly: Rancho Tehama Elementary. They prevented even greater tragedy, but I doubt that provides them much solace. They must be shaking, mourning.

http://www.kcra.com/article/4-victims-gunman-dead-in-shooting-rampage-near-tehama-county-school-1/13600667

[Assistant Sheriff Phil] Johnston said the gunman tried to get into rooms at the school with the intent of shooting children, but staff initiated a lockdown that saved lives.

School officials heard about the shots fired in the nearby neighborhood and immediately locked down the building.

Johnston said it was "monumental" that school workers took the action they did and there is no doubt in his mind they saved the lives of countless children.

http://www.abc10.com/news/local/rancho-tehama-school-officials-responded-within-15-seconds-of-shooting/491840577

“The difference between the lockdown and the shooter being in the quad was about 15 seconds,” said [Corning Union Elementary School District Superintendent Rick] Fitzpatrick. “It was incredibly prompt action.”

We owe a debt of gratitude to these heros:
https://rts-corning-ca.schoolloop.com/Teachers

These women and men put themselves on the frontlines daily. They are the first responders to those who terrorize our children. That's not in their job description - their task is to give their students the tools which directly prevent this violence: education, socialization, counseling.

A substitute teacher there makes McDonald's wages:
http://corning-ca.schoolloop.com/file/1346920474207/1312697158034/1144660443432326926.pdf

These teachers are teaching combined classes - do you know how hard it is?

To all the good teachers, here and everywhere, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss On the End of a Wet Fist
Nov 14, 2017 - 08:06pm PT
notherawesomethreadonthetorpor
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Nov 14, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
Yes nah000, we are different.

There are reports that the culture and attitudes in Australia
changed after 1996.

Hard to have a gun culture without guns.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Nov 14, 2017 - 08:24pm PT
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318286/
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