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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 22, 2017 - 11:00am PT
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Thinking about going back to school. Would like to get a degree in this field. Been toyimg with the idea for a few years. Any suggestions? Tips?
Thanks, ya'll!
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 22, 2017 - 01:37pm PT
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What's your educational background?
What's your idea of what mechanical engineers do? It's a broadly defined field. I have a Masters in Mechanical Engineering and the only courses I took were in analytical mechanics - 100% advanced mathematics, so you need to know what you want.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 22, 2017 - 02:59pm PT
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Are you good at maths? How old are you? Can you afford it? My personal experience with going back to university as a pretty old guy for a full degree program is that as an older person you will be way more committed and serious about it; I missed one class during the entire program. You'll also find that being older is really useful for making connections with the professors or lecturers.
Then you need to get that P.E. attachment to your name.
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Oct 22, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
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Another consideration is where do you want to work/live? I'm a ChemE which limited me a bit in my search for the perfect place to work/live. I got lucky and really enjoy where I work/live. MEng will be subject to some of these constraints as well. I don't what your age is but age discrimination is a real thing especially in this field.
I work with alot of MEng's. Like myself, what they do know has little to do with their background. No P.E required here
Any engineering degree you pursue will be a burly endeavor. Doing it in 3-4yrs is more than a full-time job.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 22, 2017 - 03:38pm PT
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I half a degree in Redneck Engineering ..... :-)
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drF
Trad climber
usa
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Oct 22, 2017 - 04:22pm PT
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You're hired!!!
The snowflake engineers we're hiring call a tow truck when they get a flat tire. Can't figure out how to tap a keg either. Ho Man!!
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hailman
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Oct 22, 2017 - 04:30pm PT
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I'm a civil engineer...just got licensed here in CA... so might be able to give some halfway-baked advice on getting the degree + practicing engineering :)
Do you like solving problems and analyzing how things work? Have you ever found yourself trying to solve one good problem for a ridiculous amount of time? Like rifling through books and googling like a madman just to understand how a set of equations models some process you're interested in? Do you ignore human relationships to waste away in a computer lab, drunkenly attempting to finish your design project one dreary day after the next? OK too far...also, playing with LEGOs when you were a kid does not foretell engineering prowess.
A good example would be...somebody tells you the Wheatstone bridge is used in a lot of electrical instruments because it can detect very small changes in resistance. Most people would be satisfied with just this. An engineer would be more likely to get pissed off and would soon find themselves solving Kirchoff's laws for the bridge to examine the relationship between the supply voltage, changing resistance from the transducer, and the measurement voltage across the bridge.
If you did well in some upper level math in the past you will get through an engineering undergrad degree just fine.
A great reason to choose one engineering discipline over another is interest in a particular research area. Mechanical engineering, just like civil, is so broad it barely even means anything! I've always been interested in geology and focused on geotechnical stuff within civil, but I just as easily could have ended up in construction, structures, water resources, transportation...all with a civil engineering degree.
A good chunk of engineering grads aren't even working in an engineering-type career shortly after graduation. Lots of industries hire engineers because they're problem solvers and even if you end up hating it, getting the degree would open doors for you. The reality of most engineering careers is you will be following established methods/CODE (especially in civil). You might use the same spreadsheet thousands of times over. If you follow the rules...no one gets hurt...
This can get a bit monotonous...BUT engineering research is way rad. Looking into what your professors are researching (they don't care about teaching anyway) could be a good starting point to see what makes YOU excited.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 22, 2017 - 04:59pm PT
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Yeah drF, P.E. isn't required, but it sure boosts your worth in some engineering disciplines. You're right about the effort involved in school for a technical degree; I earned my Wine Science B.S. in New Zealand where university is a three year deal, as they skip the bullsh#t, so that helped, but it was a full time slough. It was a bit daunting to go back to school and be the oldest student around, but it was great to realize the brain still worked and was capable of learning.
Especially nice was that the government paid all the tuition and a support stipend, which leads to the (slightly) off topic subject of costs. It's scary to see some of the debt American people are taking on to go to university. And that debt can't be removed by bankruptcy, it's always there and has to be paid.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Oct 22, 2017 - 05:04pm PT
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I have a degree in Physics and was in the same year as my brother who was doing Chem Eng. My program was more difficult conceptually but those engineers got loaded down with a ton of work, 6 classes. I went to work in oil and gas exploration as a petrophysicist and have worked with many engineers over the years.
Once graduating they think they have it made, but then they get beat upon for the first few years and have to learn a lot more. However 5 years into it they generally enjoy life a lot.
The late great Dave Cheesmond was an engineer designing production facilities. Somehow he managed to swing a lot of time off and get a ton of climbing including expeditions.
A career like that is worth it if you can find the right job with the right company. Just make sure you get enough time off for climbing.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2017 - 05:23pm PT
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Hey all, thanks for the replies.
Werner, me too! Helped run the Ouray Hydro Power Station for a while. If that isn't redneck engineering, I don't know what is.
Busy at the moment, but I'll chime back in this evening when I have more time.
Thanks again, yall.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Oct 22, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
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Just keep in mind that after the first wave of manufacturing offshoring now we have a second wave of R&D offshoring.
Whatever jobs are still here have more focus on regulations and compliance.
Please be ready as an engineer to spend a lot of your time/efforts on paperwork and checklists. :(
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Aerili
climber
Project Y
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Oct 23, 2017 - 08:46am PT
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What kind of suggestions are you looking for, exactly? You're a bit too general to give good feedback on what you're looking for.
A good chunk of engineering grads aren't even working in an engineering-type career shortly after graduation. Lots of industries hire engineers because they're problem solvers and even if you end up hating it, getting the degree would open doors for you.
I agree with this. Alternatively, some engineers work in strict engineering for a while and then transition into something else later. And/or you can find yourself doing things which require creativity and problem solving but which don't the involve the stereotypical physical design aspects per se, like Solidworks (this is true for me - I work with systems, both virtual and real, as well as risk management). However, I used to work a lot with more mechanical systems, including lots of hoisting and rigging applications, which I also enjoyed.
Most ME's don't need to be a PE, but I would not worry about that one way or another now. That will come down the road several years out and you can cross that bridge when you know the direction you're headed in.
One area that has good projected future prospects is mechatronics, I believe.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 23, 2017 - 09:30am PT
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Isn’t civil where the money’s at?
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Oct 23, 2017 - 09:42am PT
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Petroleum engineering pays more than civil. I don't know how this compares to Silicon Valley pay.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 23, 2017 - 01:00pm PT
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Thanks, learn sumpin new every day! I guess I've only known civils who didn't know that and
found their way to the bank. Would designing dams for Bechtel have had anything to do with that? ;-)
One of my best friend's brothers is one of the top petroleos at Arco - that dood ain't hurtin'!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Oct 23, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
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I'm about as far from an engineer as you can get! I barely made it through the minimum college math requirements. Luckily there is law school! Anyway, I interact with engineers on an almost daily basis both as client representatives and as expert consultants. This includes or has included petroleum, mechanical, environmental, mining, EE, civil, etc., engineers. (I'm an environmental compliance, permitting and litigation atty).
Generally I'd say they really like what they do, and many have extremely interesting careers. Though I'm sure I only see a small slice of the profession.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 23, 2017 - 02:33pm PT
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I've always been interested in geology and focused on geotechnical stuff within civil
I agree.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Oct 23, 2017 - 03:05pm PT
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The engineers I have worked with are good people but very career driven. I have always been a climber first so I think differently than most other people at work.
The big factor in a career choice is the potential work location. You have to be near stuff you want to do. The last thing a climber needs is a good job in Houston.
Geotechnical engineering could a good gig for the West Coast.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Oct 23, 2017 - 03:16pm PT
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Think about environmental engineering,somebody has to clean up industry/corporate waste/abandonments. Plenty of work in the future.
They get paid well.
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hailman
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Oct 23, 2017 - 05:12pm PT
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Lots of great advice in this thread...
Yes, civil engineering generally starts out at the bottom salary-wise...too bad for me, haha. It's probably more accurate to say, project management is where the money's at! All disciplines start making the real $$$ after a few years of experience.
CA is a great place to be a geotechnical engineer. The geohazards keep us busy and the work tends to be pretty interesting. Last winter we had a lot of storm damage repair projects on all those backroads in the foothills.
Definitely agree with the comment above regarding most engineers being career focused...you will likely be able to make more time for climbing working in a government job. If you're into hydropower / dams the US Army Corps could be a good fit. Knew a few dudes at the Navy that built up enough comp time to hike the JMT on the government's dime...
One other thing...you might be surprised where you end up after jumping into an engineering program. I had an amazing, super-energized Argentinian professor in soil mechanics, of all courses, and pretty much never looked back. Was pretty aimless the first two years of undergrad but after that geotechnical was a blast. So you might find something that really interests you a few years into the degree.
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Weenis
Trad climber
Tel Aviv
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Oct 23, 2017 - 05:18pm PT
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Originalpmac, I know that one of our forum members, "Arete" is a mechanical engineer. Send him a PM.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 23, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
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ME is a bad choice among the engineering disciplines, IMO. While there are a lot of challenging jobs this degree could lead you to, there just are not that many here in the US. Your options will be limited. Most of the jobs in the field have gone overseas to CAD jockeys. If you can see it, touch it and copy a working example, you generally don't really need to perform very many calculations on it. Even if you did, it doesn't mean you'll come up with a better design than someone with no degree. Most decisions in the field are experience based. There is no formula, it's mostly empirical data from past design failures. Anyone can take a few Solidworks classes and accomplish most of what an ME might be hired to do.
Take a look for yourself at local job listings. EE and CSci are better options at the moment.
The comment about R+D going overseas is also valid - especially if what you do is easy and can be accomplished by a pack of Asian PHD's with the actual cumulative education of one US undergrad. For now, IMO, reality is, Asian education and cultural drive for innovation and leadership is far behind the US. It's much easier to copy and steal. Lots of exceptions, sure, but in general, I think our best design jobs will be here for a long while.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan, Former USSR
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Oct 23, 2017 - 08:13pm PT
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Waste of time. get in to computer, EE or some sort degree in IT and remember, when you get off school, you are competing with 21 years old n00biees fresh with zero mile who gladly will work for nothing just to have a job.
Also, tons of workers from Asia with master and PHDs are fighting just to have a job in USA under H1s visas and again only people with experience will get a job. Check out indeed.com and see what they pay for MEs.
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Cancer Boy
Trad climber
Freedonia
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Oct 23, 2017 - 10:57pm PT
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MEs design roller coasters. There is no higher calling.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2017 - 12:18am PT
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Dang yall, much appreciated. GREAT insight.
Don Lauria, educational back ground is very minimal. I dropped out half way through 11th grade, unfortunately. Didn't want to but that is a long story.
I do try to educate myself and I feel I have done decent job. I read a lot, devoured most of Sagans none fiction shortly after leaving HS.
I have had some interesting and technical jobs, the power plant being one. Lots of welding, some fabricating, small engine repair, making the power, etc.
I'm thirty years old and motivated. I like solving problems and searching for more efficient ways to do so. Seems like a good fit. Also have my first child on the way. Huge motivating factor.
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fall-onME
Trad climber
York, PA
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Oct 24, 2017 - 06:13am PT
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ME is hard (Currently a senior ME student)
EE is harder (Currently go to school with sad, overworked EE students)
That being said, I think the effort is well worth it. I wouldn't let concerns about jobs moving away bother you. ME is a great foundation and you can work in a multitude of roles. Also, it's essential to pick something you like to do and are passionate about, because it is hard and it's ever harder to stay motivated if you picked EE just for the money.
That being said, perhaps another option would be Industrial or Manufacturing Engineering. There are still manufacturing facilities in the US and they all need IE/MEs.
It sounds like your background would be well suited to IE/ME, it involves problem solving on a daily basis and doesn't chain you to a desk all day.
One piece of advice I do have about school is to look critically at the program. Some schools are very academic and many graduates head immediately to grad school, while others are very job focused and encourage internships, etc. Definitely take a look at the numbers going to grad school and the numbers who already have a job lined up by the time they graduate.
Let me know if you have any other questions specifically about school since I'm still in it.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 24, 2017 - 10:55am PT
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If you dropped out of high school and now at age 30 with a kid on the way, you expect to get an engineering degree and be competitive enough in the marketplace to get a job that pays off your student loans - which will be considerable unless your wife has a good job - this all sounds like a recipe for failure. IMO, you have no idea and your odds are awful. Sorry to tell you.
IMO, look at starting up a business in "Lots of welding, some fabricating, small engine repair, making the power, etc. I'm thirty years old and motivated. "
Guys who can make the rubber meet the road at the commercial level w/o fuking it up are rare and well paid, IMO.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Oct 24, 2017 - 11:31am PT
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Mechanical engineering is awesome! However, this is coming from an electrical engineer. I loved my crossover courses (statics & dynamics, thermodynamics, etc.). I say go for it. My son is very interested in pursuing a mechanical engineering degree.
Do not fall victim to the siren song of industrial engineering; the engineering for non-engineers. Easy course work and somehow you get the title engineer. BOO.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 24, 2017 - 11:39am PT
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An RN straight outta school can pull down $150K no probs!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Oct 24, 2017 - 11:42am PT
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SOWR & GTrider on Supertopo are both Mec Eng with damn cool jobs.
Should be tons of good paying work for that when you get done.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Oct 24, 2017 - 12:09pm PT
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Although not an engineer, I went to GaTech in the 1950s and am somewhat familiar with the requirements. Twenty one hours per quarter leaves no time for much of an after-school life. My suggestion is look into engineering technology programs that are less demanding but may still lead to decent jobs. (I occasionally taught calculus in an engineering tech program and it was not as demanding as our regular calculus courses)
For example:
https://www.universities.com/find/colorado/best/engineering-technology-degrees
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 24, 2017 - 12:11pm PT
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I'm a Winemaker now, but was a mechanical designer for years in aerospace and marine industrial. Have you talked to any school about admittance? If you didn't finish high school it might be tough. ME will require serious maths; are you any good? Did you at least complete algebra and enjoy it? Any calculus? If not it's going to be pretty tough to catch up.
University is not like high school, you have to be committed and dedicated. You'll have school work everyday and weekends, no excuses. Financially, unless a relative is paying for it or you have big savings, it will be difficult not to come out of the thing with huge debts, especially if you don't finish the course; you'll owe the money no matter what.
I'm not trying to be a nay sayer, if you really want it it's possible, but beware of the pitfalls.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 24, 2017 - 04:17pm PT
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Did you at least complete algebra and enjoy it? Any calculus? If not it's going to be pretty tough to catch up.
That will indeed be the crux.
IMO, if you don't ace Calculus, you're going to be behind in all classes for the rest of your degree and end up second string at best in the job market. Most engineering hopefuls get weeded right here.
Thing is, as a 30 yr old, even if you graduated from high school middle of the pack, you're probably 2 years of math away from even getting into a Calc class - math you've either never seen or at best have long forgotten. Your peers will be in Calc freshman year all current in every subject and will still be lucky to finish their degree overall in 5 yrs.
Now take a sober look at your tuition debt load over 6-7 yrs. You'll be in your late 30's with - what - a 10 yr debt? So, you pay that off in your late 40's? Planning to buy a house sometime in there? As a 30 yr old with a family and no job (you won't have time for one) your borrowing will likely be higher than an 18 yr old willing to live in a frat house.
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 24, 2017 - 05:13pm PT
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I agree. If mathematics is not some thing you've done well with, your chances of a university degree in engineering are slim. Some kind of certification from a technical school would probably be your best shot.
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Oct 24, 2017 - 06:45pm PT
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People already identified the biggest risk for you - inability to get through math courses.
As a risk mitigation strategy, can you enroll yourself in a couple of math courses at a nearby university (that can later be counted towards your engineering degree)?
You can finish these courses concurrently with your current job.
Benefits of this approach are obvious.
Drawback is that you would miss a year.
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Oct 24, 2017 - 07:13pm PT
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If you have this kind of mentality, you might make a good engineer (delicate sensibilities beware):
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 24, 2017 - 08:25pm PT
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yanqui, that's pretty f*#kin' funny. And true.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Oct 24, 2017 - 08:33pm PT
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the angle of the dangle is proportional to the heat of the meat
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hailman
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Oct 24, 2017 - 10:09pm PT
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Lots of welding, some fabricating, small engine repair, making the power, etc.
Have you considered the trades? In the business they call it, 'Earn while you learn'.
Most engineers sit in front of a computer all day rather than working with their hands. To keep from going crazy I need to take on some personal projects around the house from time to time. Actually had a blast putting up drywall, installing flooring, painting, etc a few weekends this summer...although you really have to take care of yourself. My back was killing me and went from leading 5.7 to 5.4...LOL
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meatball
Trad climber
Bay Area, CA
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Oct 24, 2017 - 10:33pm PT
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Currently employed as a "manufacturing engineer" but the deee-gree is in Mechanical Engineering. Plus I also come from a strong hands on background (machining, welding, beater truck fixing).
I would tend to lean toward the sayings of others that going for an ME degree with a kid on the way sounds like a horrible idea.
BUT....I don't have any kids. I'm just speculating based on the time commitments from my course load.
Perhaps look into the happy medium:
Have you looked a the Community College options nearby? CCs are generally cheaper than full blown universities, and you can transfer into a university if you find yourself doing well enough in the maths and sciences. You'll learn the same material as the university, and there are websites dedicated to helping you figure out which classes are comparable.
While its valuable to have hands on machining/welding/tinkering skills with an ME degree, they're pretty useless when the person actually making your part (not you) is doing it however they dang well please. And probably not how you intended.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Oct 25, 2017 - 01:22pm PT
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Take a couple community college type technical classes in math & science.
See how you like it and how well you do.
You could also look at some of the free online courses available,
such as https://ocw.mit.edu/about/
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Oct 25, 2017 - 01:48pm PT
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Splater, that's a great link!
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ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
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Oct 25, 2017 - 02:49pm PT
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Take a couple community college type technical classes in math & science.
See how you like it and how well you do.
This is good advice. Engineering school requires serious mathematical abilities.
My take is that your educational background does not seem to make you a good candidate (I have a chemical engineering degree). Engineering schools are generally highly competitive, both to get into and to survive in. My program for the first two years made overt efforts to weed the weaker students out. It seems nowadays that high school kids get much more advanced placement courses than when I went in, so I'd expect some serious competition.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Nov 18, 2017 - 05:36pm PT
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originalpmac, curious what your take is from this thread re ME school. Are you going to give it a try?
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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Nov 18, 2017 - 07:04pm PT
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Good demand for quality MEs in Boulder in the medical device industry. Specifically, Medtronic has a large presence in the area. I worked for them for 18 years in various roles, a strong industry.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2017 - 09:39pm PT
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Winemaker, thanks for asking! Still toying with the idea, though kind of leaning towards just becoming a machinist. Love working with my hands, not so much cubicle work. I like the idea of learning CAD as well. We'll see. My whole plan was to start in community college for sure and still there are a few subjects I want to study, mainly physics as well as a few others.
I am buying a forge on Monday, really excited about that. Different, but will be some really fun projects to come from that.
Also, very much appreciate every ones input. Thanks yall!
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