Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 117 of total 117 in this topic |
Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 21, 2017 - 09:47am PT
|
Apparently Brad Gobright and Jim Reynolds have broken the record on the Nose with a time of 2:19!! unbelievable!
|
|
Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 09:50am PT
|
Wow! Congrats boys!
|
|
ClimbingOn
Trad climber
NY
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 09:54am PT
|
Congratulations to them! Well done!
|
|
Mr Munk Funk
Trad climber
Musanze, Rwanda
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 10:17am PT
|
About time for Hans to come out of retirement ;)
Seriously though congrats guys
|
|
Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2017 - 10:20am PT
|
i think the old record was 2;23? I'm not sure though.
|
|
skywalker1
Trad climber
co
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 10:43am PT
|
What?!!! It takes me at least 2:18 to get my stuff to the base. That leaves me with one minute to get to the top....damn...
S...
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 11:01am PT
|
Badass.
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 11:59am PT
|
Congrats!
The speed climbing record for the Nose has changed hands several times in the past few years. The record currently belongs to Alex Honnold and Hans Florine, who broke the previous record by almost 13 minutes, with a time of 2:23:46 (2 hours, 23 minutes, 46 seconds) on June 17, 2012. - Wikipedia
Funny Wikipedia spelled out the time in case people interpret it as days?
|
|
rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 11:59am PT
|
Old record...2:23.46 on June 17, 2012 by Alex Honnold & Hans Florine.
|
|
MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 12:53pm PT
|
But what was the wind speed updraft-wise?
|
|
Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 01:21pm PT
|
SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
WanderlustMD
Trad climber
New England
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 02:23pm PT
|
I thought this was a joke.
Respect and congratulations
.
|
|
ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 02:49pm PT
|
I'll be impressed when climbers can climb 3,000 feet faster than runners can run 26.2 miles.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 02:54pm PT
|
Doing it in that time is like Usain Bolt breaking the world record but anything under 5 hours is still very impressive also .....
|
|
AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 04:43pm PT
|
Anyone have any idea for the fastest ascent by two people who had never been on the Nose before?
I read that Alex and George Lowe did a 9 hour ascent.
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2017 - 10:02pm PT
|
Brad and Jim, did you guys substract 7 seconds from your recorded time? It's in the rule book now, right?
I hit the tree and stopped the watch, subtracting the agreed-upon seven seconds. I pulled out my phone and called down to Jacki, who was in the meadow with the kids.
“2:23:46,” I told her.
// excerpt from Hans Florine's book, On the Nose
(Google Cached Link)
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 01:02am PT
|
Yeah, all the cheering woke us up over here WEML. We had our coffee, and by the time we took our poops,,,, they already topped out!
Congratulations Brad and Jim💪
|
|
mcreel
climber
Barcelona
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 06:30am PT
|
!!! Funniest comment ever!
|
|
chill
climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 07:21am PT
|
NIAH someday?
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 07:51am PT
|
Amazing. Good question, AP. Who has the fastest on-sight?
BAd
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 12:14pm PT
|
Holy Sheep Dip
|
|
J Wells
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 04:47pm PT
|
Superhuman Jim and Brad! One of the greatest athletic achievements not only in climbing but sports period. Olympian status. Glad the hard work paid off safely. Heck yeah!
|
|
stonefly
Social climber
Alameda, California
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 04:54pm PT
|
While it is rarely a case of the complete ascendancy of acrobatics over esthetics, we should bear in mind that the mountains are more to us than a mere proving-ground of strength and alert skill. Rock-climbing should be considered a thrilling means to a more important end. Just what the end and aim of our appreciation of the mountains are, is an elaborate metaphysical equation, the solution of which is implied most clearly in these words of Whitman-
"... while the great thoughts of space and eternity fill me
I will measure myself by them."
The artist in man seeks ever to venture new phases of beauty; the wilderness will reveal the profound significance of life to him who approaches it without sentimentality or the possessive attitude. While vulnerable to material defacement, the mountains are beyond the exploitations of the baser spirit, yet ever captive to the imagination and the living dream.
Ansel Adams' Two Cents
1931
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
|
subtracting the agreed-upon seven seconds
Hans had a stopwatch clipped to the back of his harness. It took about 7 seconds to clip it on after starting it and to un clip it and hit stop. They beat the previous record by almost 13 minutes so 7 seconds doesn't really matter in the big picture but it's a attempt to be as accurate as possible.
|
|
Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 05:49pm PT
|
They beat the previous record by 3-5 minutes. Haven't heard the exact time but everything posted ain't 13.
Not to diminish their achievement AT ALL. Because it's HUMONGOUS!!!
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 06:22pm PT
|
Almost 13 was in regards to Hans and Alex's time vs Dean and Sean's time.
|
|
bchains
Trad climber
Bay Area, CA
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
|
My favorite thing about this new record? Hans and the Honnold kid and all the rest are ripped as hell -- but these two look kind of regular.
CHUBBY DUDES FTW!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BahK43hB3y2/
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 08:39pm PT
|
7 seconds doesn't really matter in the big picture but it's a attempt to be as accurate as possible. I understand. Just wondering if it would take just as long to unzip pocket, take out smart phone without it slipping out of trembling hands under heavy breathing, unlock screen by typing passcode since the Touch ID never recognizes finger print right after climbing, and hit Stop button in the Timer app.
Will there be a day when sensors are permanently installed at the base of the Nose and at THE TREE on the summit? A climber slips a RFID tag in his/her chalkbag and starts climbing. The chip timing will be automatically reported to, say, Supertop [and Hans' 24/7 pager]. Don't dismiss it just yet. Crazier things happen every single day these days.
...these two look kind of regular.
Not sure about the previous record holders, Hans and Alex, looking irregular, but it's true that a couple of months ago, when my partner pointed out Brad Gobright to me who was walking across Tuolumne Store parking lot, I protested there was no way that was Brad because "look, the guy drives a Honda Civic!"
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2017 - 08:50pm PT
|
Will there be a day when sensors are permanently installed at the base of the Nose and at THE TREE on the summit? A climber slips a RFID tag in his/her chalkbag and starts climbing. The chip timing will be automatically reported to, say, Supertopo. Don't dismiss it just yet. Crazier things happen every single day these days.
Pretty good idea actually . . . the current method seems primitive at best.
We should also consider those pernicious PED's . . . when will speed records be chemically accountable?
Best to the rad dudes!
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2017 - 11:32am PT
|
OMG, 2:19, that is Smoking!
I think we've gotten numb to the speed records. The Hubers, who were no slouches, did everything they could to break the record. They came in at 2:45:45, breaking the old record by just a minute or two.
This new record is almost half-an hour under the Huber's old record. I understand that it's only a few minutes faster than the last speed record, but just to put this in perspective, 2:19 is fast.
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2017 - 12:03pm PT
|
Way to go.....
|
|
McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2017 - 12:18pm PT
|
Has to be some kind of magic trick! Awesome!
What Honnold did finally hit me when I went on vacation this Fall. It took getting away to really feel it. Can't wait for the movie....but I digress!
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2017 - 03:33pm PT
|
Nat Geo's interview with the duo:
Q: What was the last thing you did on the ground before starting your climb?
BG: Same as always: we asked some Europeans if we could go first. Usually, 80 percent of the climbers on the Nose are Europeans. No Joke.
Q: What made you a great team?
JR: Brad is an animal, especially at free-climbing. It’s nice to know he probably won’t fall during a route, whether it’s 5.9 or 5.11+. I’m more of an all-arounder. Aid-climbing is part of my skillset, so I took the lead on those sections.
That's essentially what Hans said about his collaboration with Alex as well. Maybe that's partly the reason why Huber brothers did not break through, as neither was known for being a prolific big wall aid climber? Plus, neither had a relationship with that rock and that route as intimate as the Valley locals such as Hans and Jim had, which made their non-speed-record ascent all the more impressive.
|
|
Travis Haussener
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2017 - 09:18pm PT
|
Anyone know or care to wager what the fastest "safe" ascent is, by that I mean not running out sections 40-80 ft which I assume they were doing. Climbing like a lay man for lack of a better term. I'm guessing around 6-7 hrs. Dumb question I know but I always wonder this after these records get broken.
|
|
dindolino32
climber
san francisco
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2017 - 07:25pm PT
|
The fact that this only has 45 replies shows how much this forum cares about climbing. BTW, Trump is a dick!
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2017 - 08:29pm PT
|
The fact that this only has 45 replies shows how much this forum cares about climbing.
Freesolo of Freerider will do that.
Congrats to the new record holders!
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2017 - 08:31pm PT
|
Doping for sure.
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2017 - 08:37pm PT
|
Anyone know or care to wager what the fastest "safe" ascent is, by that I mean not running out sections 40-80 ft which I assume they were doing. Climbing like a lay man for lack of a better term. I'm guessing around 6-7 hrs. Dumb question I know but I always wonder this after these records get broken.
A lay man, as you say, would be doing really good to achieve even a 24 hour Nose ascent. A 6-7 hour ascent is on fire . . . not a lay man there.
There is no safe ascent really, the end is always near.
|
|
matty
Trad climber
under the sea
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 09:49am PT
|
RAD and congrats to the boys.
Reminds me of the Isle of Mann TT except longer and slower but similar consequences.
|
|
Matt's
climber
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 11:04am PT
|
The fact that this only has 45 replies shows how much this forum cares about climbing.
I can think of a few reasons:
1) brad and jim have not been super good at promoting what they did on social media
2) there aren't any big sponsors behind brad and jim promoting what their climbers did.
3) there aren't very many good pictures or videos of their accomplishments
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 12:43pm PT
|
I might be able to build 34 anchors off of double-bolted belays in that time. As long as I was standing on the ground and they were right next to each other.
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
|
Always inspired by speed climbing (not the type in the indoor competitions) and humans' capacity to endure pain, I started following Brad Gobright since his Naked Edge speed record with Scott Bennett and the subsequent triple linkup up and down El Cap in under 24 hours. I cannot imagine the pain in the feet -- they ran down East Ledges in climbing shoes -- and bodies they had to endure for that effort and have tremendous respect for them because of that. Ticking a hard sport climbing grade is one type of achievements, widely celebrated, but I'm personally more drawn to this kind, which does not appear to attract as much limelight.
It only became obvious recently that Brad Gobright and Jim Reynolds had a reasonable shot at the Nose record and they were really going for it. I was holding my breath knowing there was great risks involved every time they pushed themselves faster regardless how well qualified and well prepared they were. I doubt that many people actually care who hold the record, and due to Alex's popularity, many may even prefer the record not being broken, but I suspect many of the same people, who paid attention, were glad that Brad and Jim got it, and it was only because they were worried that the repeated attempts would result in something catastrophic. That's how I felt anyway.
I can't believe the entire thread does not have a proper photo of the two. Here is one, and it's linked from a good Rock 'n Ice article that also has some interesting references at the bottom. Enjoy!
Since I already stole a photo, I might as well stole a Facebook post while at it. I thought it was hilarious, and adorable. Brad Gobright posted this two days after he and Jim Reynolds took the Nose speed record from Alex Honnold and Hans Florine:
Oh and FYI Honnold texted me yesterday that he took my 2000 foot Epinephrine record and gave it a new time of 45 minutes. I knew my 50 minute time would never be broken because alex thought it was too "blue collar". Apparently it was white collar enough.
|
|
yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 05:45pm PT
|
How do we know for sure? What verification is there?
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 05:54pm PT
|
Does anyone remember that Hans guy from waaaayyy back in the day? Haha...
|
|
yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 05:55pm PT
|
Even a hole in one requires witness signatures on a score card to be accepted in golf.
|
|
Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 06:59pm PT
|
Awesome. Not much room left to shave time off it. Down to minutes and seconds. When do we segue into speed downclimbing.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Oct 25, 2017 - 07:03pm PT
|
Read Tom's report, lots of watches and witnesses for these events. If there were a lie or a mistake, they'd only get away with a few seconds, not the full 3 minutes they were ahead by.
|
|
iron duchess maiden or whatever
Social climber
under a pile of rock
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 12:02pm PT
|
Del cross,
you should use a polynomial fit for these data.
Power law does not work on this.
Oh, and can you put the error bars please?
Obligatory for scientific measurements.
Cheers.
Brad,
wow, I remember stealing food for you at the lodge cafetaria when you broke a few bones on the golden eagle free ascent attempt, and were on crutches, errr i think, perhaps 2009 or 2010?
i remember running into you at the san diego gym in winter.
I remember squamish summer, 2011.
But the nose speed record? wow, never would that be guessed!
Hans, are you there?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 12:10pm PT
|
Just think how many people topping out on the nose all these years since the first ascent and the rescues have used that "TREE" at the top of the Nose.
That living tree has had a very nice history quietly standing there without protest serving humanity ....
|
|
iron duchess maiden or whatever
Social climber
under a pile of rock
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 12:20pm PT
|
werner,
you know that tree, probably better than other humans.
should we, err, feed the tree, grow a sibling? for backup.
if that tree pops at the wrong moment, several humans plunge.
is this your meaning?
|
|
iron duchess maiden or whatever
Social climber
under a pile of rock
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 12:40pm PT
|
For Hans and Yuji, we were 4 or 5 clocks. And we agreed on time.
For Dean and Sean RIP, I don t know who clocked.
But for gear, I remember that Alexander and Thomas had a number 2 yellow -bd- and Dean and Sean had a 0.75 green as their biggest.
On the rack photo of Tom's, I cannot quite see.
The biggest piece is what?
Scary.
|
|
kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 12:55pm PT
|
On the rack photo of Tom's, I cannot quite see.
The biggest piece is what?
All I can recognize are 5 totems. The biggest (green) ranges from 25.7mm - 42.3mm
|
|
iron duchess maiden or whatever
Social climber
under a pile of rock
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 01:14pm PT
|
There must be something bigger. Otherwise why bother with gear and rope?
Am I missing something? Please tell me.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 03:17pm PT
|
There must be something bigger.
Otherwise, why bother with gear and rope?
Am I missing something? Please tell me.
Big balls ..... :-)
The gear is meaningless.
As for the Tree or any living being.
I'm just pointing to this living entity (the Tree) that's never mentioned or appreciated that's part of the whole scheme of things in our world/s .....
|
|
AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 04:19pm PT
|
I can tie my shoes in 5 minutes. Is that good enough?
|
|
limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
|
If they were to pitch it out that's under 5 min per pitch!?!? Holy balls, I can't imagine. It must be so fun to move over rock like that, in a type 2 fun kinda way.
Oh, and can you put the error bars please?
Obligatory for scientific measurements. Might be kinda hard when the data points aren't averages.
|
|
nature
climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Oct 27, 2017 - 08:25pm PT
|
kids these days...
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Oct 28, 2017 - 08:22am PT
|
Entering 2017 for X into that formula gives me -5997.2 - something wrong...
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2017 - 09:23am PT
|
Kids these days...they just don't value intimidation$$$
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2017 - 12:10pm PT
|
Cool graph, Delcross. Like other sports/events, we're getting close to the asymptote. The last record stood for 5 years. How long for this one? I think of the long jump record that Beemon held for, what, 29 years? It's safe, I think, to assume that the Nose cannot be climbed in an hour, just like the 100 meter dash won't be run in 5 seconds. So where's the limit? And, a question from the Werner School of Climbing Philosophy, does it matter? Will shaving a second, half a second, as with other timed events, be important? Just musing here. The nerve and athleticism in involved in these battles is staggering.
BAd
|
|
Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2017 - 02:00pm PT
|
For the question about the rack, if its hand size or bigger they just solo it and aren't going to fall anyway. That stuff is pretty cruiser for those guys. For the style that the record breakers are climbing they aren't even placing that much gear. They lead in huge blocks and only pass the rack back to the leader a couple times in strategic locations like the king swing. Most of the time they are just clipping fixed gear and anchors and may only have 1 or 2 pieces clipped in between them. Clearly what they are doing is super dangerous but its all in the pursuit of temporary glory. ;-)
In terms of timing verification is pretty easy. someone walks to the base with a watch and then someone is waiting at the top with another watch. In addition to everyone in the meadow that watches them through binoculars and tom's camera.
I think in terms of the "final record" it can go a bit lower but the risk will continue to rise. there has to be some limit but I don't think were there yet. just my 2 cents
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2017 - 02:17pm PT
|
Most of the time they are just clipping fixed gear and anchors
Is the fixed gear documented?
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2017 - 02:35pm PT
|
As amazing as these records are, they are losing impact as news. Shaving seconds is a yawner. NIAD was huge news the first time it was done. Not even newsworthy now.
Timing would be more accurate and impossible to cheat if there was a phone app that streamed video with a date-time caption of the start and finish to a secure website. Any person, including the climbers, could take the video of the start and finish..
|
|
limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
|
Is the fixed gear documented? What do you mean, like do people know where the bolts, pitons and jammed gear are?
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2017 - 03:39pm PT
|
Great stuff. But sketchy going that fast, as Brett unfortunately showed. If only people realized the skill and dedication and commitment required to go for a record like that. It's all in at this point - and that's not a game people can easily realize or appreciate.
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2017 - 03:55pm PT
|
The fixed gear in crucial places could affect the time at some point. If a record was broken by a couple of minutes for instance. Getting nutpicky.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Oct 30, 2017 - 05:37pm PT
|
I talked with Brad in El Cap Meadows a few weeks before they set the record and given that the best teams are basically working at the same or close to the same light speed, the principal concern is not fixed gear but the means by which they can efficiently pass other parties on the route, and waiting till the right moment to fire, given who is presently on the wall and where they are. No one these days is likely to get The Nose all to themselves unless they set off in the dead of winter.
|
|
MAD BOLTER
Trad climber
CARLSBAD,NM
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2017 - 01:48pm PT
|
And my down-speed was about 6hrs for the nose on a solo rap.. I was not trying for speed. Have fun Y'ALL
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2017 - 02:11pm PT
|
Modern Nose speed climbers now-a-daze need a LED helmet with red and blue flashing lights and siren running code 3
so that everyone up there stops and yields the right of way to the speed climbers ..... :-)
|
|
duncan
climber
London, UK
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2017 - 03:11pm PT
|
You can force a trendline on the data which suggests the time won’t go below 2 hours. There are not many points and my gut feeling is it will and this will happen in the not too distant future. Dawn Wall has been jumared in about 45 minutes, so there is still plenty of room for improvement.
Its more interesting to take a qualitative view and look at when the big reductions in time occurred. Biggest factors were probably the introduction of cams and short fixing. Incremental improvements came from intensive rehearsal leading to better beta and the general rise in climbing standards. Records fall in clusters, I wonder if the latest impressive ascent will encourage more attempts soon?
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2017 - 04:01pm PT
|
Incremental improvements came from intensive rehearsal
---
Not in my experience. Once a person gets any climb ruthlessly wired, they climb MUCH more efficiently, and that translates to big savings of time. Once every foothold and jam and cam placement has been memorized and rehearsed countless times, THEN you are up against incremental increases in speed. But the time difference between an on-sight ascent and your 20th ascent is likely to be vast, even if you are climbing belay to belay.
|
|
Matt's
climber
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2017 - 04:05pm PT
|
I think that times can still go down a lot, without big changes in the risk profile-- imagine having two 5.14 granite climbers that have ruthlessly dialed the route-- they would be able to comfortably simul-climb (without aiding) all but a few pitches... i imagine that would be a lot faster than short-fixing...
|
|
Gobi
Trad climber
Orange CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2017 - 08:26pm PT
|
Matt’s got it. Stronger climbers= Less aid climbing= Faster times. The record can and will go sub 2
|
|
limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
|
The next olympics will include speed climbing and some young climbers now will be influenced by it. That could play a role in the future of speed records.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Oct 31, 2017 - 08:48pm PT
|
In my opinion, speed climbing the Nose is a much different affair than sport or even trad climbing 5.14. Speed climbing rarely requires moves beyond hard 5.11 and the speed, per se, is accomplished via efficiently blasting up what to modern candidates is moderate going but requiring world class endurance and cardio to keep the hammer down for so long, basically full bore for going on two hours. Someone capable of climbing far harder cruxes does not necessarily blaze up moderate terrain, lest world cup champs at leading and bouldering would also win the speed comps, and they never do save for Claire B.
So you're 5.14 crushers would basically have to go to Yosemite and start getting the Nose wired, as well as all the specialized techniques of short-fixing and rope management and then, it's off to the races. But not before.
Modern speed climbing is an acquired art involving techniques and a mind set of little use to most all other modes of climbing. I've been wrong before, but these people setting speed records on El Cap have a skill set that took years to attain, and there's probably no way to short cut the learning curve no matter how hard a grade you might crank.
Also, as Quinn Brett unfortunately just showed, leader falls are likely to be catastrophic owing to the lack of pro placed. It's a wonder more Homeric whippers have not been logged - another testament to how good these people actually are.
|
|
duncan
climber
London, UK
|
|
Not in my experience. Once a person gets any climb ruthlessly wired, they climb MUCH more efficiently, and that translates to big savings of time.
Totally agree individual teams can improve their time enormously with repeated attempts. Incremental improvements referred to the (relatively) small time reductions in the Nose record more recently. Times dropped ~50% over two years in the early 90s as short fixing became popular. It has taken another 25 years so see a proportionally similar reduction.
Quinn Brett recovery fund: https://www.youcaring.com/quinnbrett-980578
|
|
Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2017 - 06:49am PT
|
The idea that stronger free climbers would be faster is silly because Brad is already climbing at that level. His Facebook feed had photos of him hiking a bunch of the hardest routes in tuolomne this fall. (like peace 13c/d?) And while I don't now Jim I'm certain he's probably a pretty similar caliber climber to Brad. Most of the people who have had the nose speed record over the last 20 years were some of the strongest granite free climbers of their generation. It was true when it was done for the first time by Largo et al and it continued to croft/bachar, Potter, and Alex Honnold. Most of the recent record holders have multiple free ascents on the captain already. So the reality is that many of the best granite climbers are already there.
I think it might eventually get faster but it will be really tough to get under 2 hours
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
Just talking to Brad, and he thinks if he teamed with Honnold they could go sub 2:10 no problemo. Breaking 2:0 is gunna take a lot of freesoloing.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
It's interesting to speculate just what it will take to dick the Nose in sub two hours. First there was the introduction of short fixing and basically soloing the "easier" sections. That halved the elapsed times. If you look at the Huber's movie on setting the speed record (at the time), there was also a refinement process of getting the short fixing and team work dialed, becoming increasing fluent with the route and the whole shebang, and once more that halved their elapsed time.
At this point it seems like it will take all of these components - short fixing and running the rope liberally, fluency with the route and polished team work - boiling it all down to having the two fastest candidates climbing the route together, probably over and over till everything clicks that one magic ascent comes down and a time for the ages is logged.
|
|
nopantsben
climber
europe
|
|
Just talking to Brad, and he thinks if he teamed with Honnold they could go sub 2:10 no problemo. Breaking 2:0 is gunna take a lot of freesoloing.
That makes it sound like he was slowed down by Jim. Pretty sure if Jim teamed up with Honnold, sub 2:10 would also be no problemo ;-)
|
|
snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
|
|
largo wins with "homeric whippers"
|
|
Gobi
Trad climber
Orange CA
|
|
Hey everyone! It’s interesting reading all the comments and discussing strategies for this kind of stuff. It’s pretty neat! If Jim or I were to team up with Alex we would take the record down to 2:10 because someone like Alex could simul behind us the whole time. Jim and I simuled about 80% and short fixed the other 20. I think doing the whole thing simul could shave off about 10 minutes. Mega strong/bold free climbers could bring the time down to sub 2. This is my guess.
Brad Gobright
|
|
brotherbbock
climber
Alta Loma, CA
|
|
^^^^Gnarly!!!!
Well done Gobi...totally badass.
|
|
Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
|
|
if leader place several micro-tractions on specific places on the fixed gear - can this make simul-climbing safer [ protect leader from fall of the follower] and increase % of simul-climbing vs % of short fixing ?
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
Glad Brad chimned in. And congrats on the new record.
It's fun to speculate on the possibility of simulclimbing the whole route. I suspect - more like a hunch - is that the way to simul climb the Nose with the most logistical ease, to avoid climbing in fits and starts - as one or the other either free climbs or French frees a bit as the other does the same - is to climb on a very short rope, perhaps as short as 50 or 60 feet, making sure that at least two good pieces of pro separated the climbers. If the second stopped and hung on pro in strategic pieces, the leader could dick the pendulums in the meantime and second could follow and lower out on tag lines you could just leave behind. Only way to keep the rack small would be to basically solo everything up to about low 5.12, which is really most of the route. But it would bound to get hairy somewhere.
Anyway, simulclimbing on a shorter (than 70 meters) line might be one way to think about it. The trick would be to figure out what would make it faster, and how, if indeed it would.
|
|
BruceHildenbrand
Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
|
|
I want to see somebody come up with a technique to truly simul-climb the King Swing:-)
BTW, I am heartened to see both Brad and Jim acknowledge how dangerous it really is to attempt the speed record. It's pretty cool that they climbed the route so quickly, but everyone should realize how big the risks are.
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
Careful, your car's airbag could kill you.
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
This graph is 99% the same as the ones del cross and duncan already posted.
I tried to label the ascents where the record dropped the most, relative to the elapsed time since the past record.
Edit: more labels added.
Note: The time for the Westbay-Bridwell-Long record was listed as 17:40 on the 2010 version of Hans' page; it is listed as "just under 15 hours" now. I checked the story on p.82-83 of Yosemite Climber. (or see http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2146490/Team-Machine-Billy-Westbay-NIAD-PO-Wall-Yosemite-Climber ). They started climbing at 4am and were on the summit of El Cap at 7pm, which is 15 hours. Since the summit of El Cap is several minutes hike above the classic tree (end of roped climbing), their time on the route was under 15 hours. It was 17 hours from the 4am start back to the Valley floor.
Why did Shultz and Croft drop the record by so much?
duncan's graph indicates that short-fixing was started at this time.
But you also have 2 guys who had both free soloed The Rostrum, and Croft had free soloed Astroman as well.
So these guys could climb safely on runout 5.10 and 5.11.
Peter could be the best person to ask!
The answers may be in Hans' book:
https://www.amazon.com/Nose-Lifelong-Obsession-Yosemites-Iconic/dp/1493024981
|
|
le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
|
|
Clint who are those first two drops - the only two to shave off > 100 minutes while taking the record, if I'm reading right?
Schultz and Croft almost dropped 100 minutes from previous record, and then the promptly dropped > 100 more from their last effort. How??? What did they change? They changed the game, but what did they change in their strategy?
What a killer graph.
Good to hear from BG - respect to you and your partner
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
|
|
This is not only a superb climbing achievement, requiring incredible commitment and skills, but a truly impressive athletic achievement as well.
Congratulations.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Two super good free soloists can destroy the record .....
|
|
SilverSnurfer
Mountain climber
SLC, UT.
|
|
I remember an interview with Hans Florine where he said he thought the Huber brothers were capable of an under 2 hour time if they spent more time in the valley.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Or maybe die for nothing...
No one dies for nothing.
Everyone gets another chance.
Some have gone thru thousands of lifetimes .....
|
|
deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
|
|
Del Cross, thanks for remembering our winter solstice ascent. I was pretty psyched that Dave and I did it in a day, all daylight, starting in the cold dawn and topping out in the winter dusk.
When we climbed it, we actually got to Camp 4 in a little over 3 hours. But the whole upper part was dripping wet so we had to aid a lot of stuff that we would normally be firing up at 5.10/11.
I always thought we had the Nose record, because at the time of Duncan’s ascent the summer preceding our winter Solctice ascent, I recall there being fixed ropes on the first 4 pitches, and thought they had used them, but Duncan later told me (many years later in a chance meeting in Joshua Tree) that he didn’t use the fixed ropes, so he and Roman had the record at the time. I saw Duncan that day around mid afternoon in Camp 4, he told me he had just climbed the Nose, I was way impressed, as it was an early one day ascent (I think at the time it had only been climbed in a day about a half dozen times, but most of those had used fixed ropes for the first four). They didn’t have a watch, but he estimated 8 hours. I never asked them about the fixed ropes, but back then, a lot of routes were starting to be done in a day, but with the first few pitches fixed. Rick Cashner was the vocal critic of using fixed ropes, so I followed his lead and didn’t use fixed ropes for my first one-days ascents of Lost Arrow, Liberty Cap, some other speed records at the time on routes like the West Face of El Cap, all three free routes on Sentinel, Half Dome, Prow, and a few others. Dave Shultz and Hideataka Suzuki were my main speed climbing partners at the time, though I did a few with other partners, as well as fastest multi-day ascents of harder El Cap nailing routes. Rick Cashner and I were the leading advocates of first one day ascents at the time, recording actual times more accurately, and eschewing fixed ropes . A few years later, of course, the whole speed climbing game got a lot bigger and more publicized, especially after Hans got into the game! (I recall topping out on the Cosmos with Jimmy Dunn after one of the worst storms I had ever experienced on El Cap, Hans had just topped out on the Salathe on the clearing day after the storm—he didn’t know anyone else was up there and he screamed to the void, “I’m the fastest man in the world!” I think he was a bit embarrassed when we yelled over only a few hundred feet away. Later on the summit he thanked me for writing my Nose-in-a-day tips and topo article in Climbing, which he credited for getting him started in speed climbing).
I was really interested in climbing nailing routes on El Cap in a day in the mid-80’s, but frankly no one really thought it was possible and it was hard to find partners. I did talk Corbett into trying Shield in a day (but with fixed ropes to Heart as an initial foray), but we didn’t quite make it due to headlamp failure after we made it to Chickenhead in 18 hours or so. He didn’t really enjoy the suffering of it, and was done with speed climbs after that (although he also did some pioneering climbs with Cashner up to that point). I knew that Zodiac could be climbed in a day, but really couldn’t find anyone who wanted to try it. It wasn’t until 1989 that Werner climbed Zodiac in a day that the aid routes started to fall to one day ascents, and then Gerberding became the maestro, but by that time I was getting more interested in remote walls and was focused more on training for my big one, Great Trango Tower,and was looking into doing as many walls in different wilder areas as possible (Zion, Mt. Hooker, Black Canyon, El Trono, etc).
Apologies for tooting my own horn, here. I find the evolution interesting having had a strong interest in climbing fast and light on big stones in my youth, and am fascinated by how the perceptions have changed from my time to today.
|
|
micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2017 - 12:04pm PT
|
way cool.
|
|
Gobi
Trad climber
Orange CA
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2017 - 02:26pm PT
|
Thanks for posting that! I always wondered what Jim would yell to me from down there.
|
|
bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2017 - 02:29pm PT
|
I think I saw a turd-in-a-bag on Dolt tower.
|
|
Rexi
climber
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
|
That is a good point Cragman and one that i´ve thought about. I was up on Dolt with my brother on one of the attempts that they had just before breaking the record and they flew by when we were eating breakfast.
-and it left me and my brother thinking.. we were very impressed by there skills. but at the same time, the risk factor is crazy and like you say it´s not just the climbers pushing the record taking a risk. This kind of climbing puts up all sorts of scenarios that is highly dangerous for other parties on the same route.
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2017 - 09:11pm PT
|
Sorry I'll have to disagree, but I think you and you* are over reacting. I normally keep my disagreement quiet because what I think is not that important to other people. However, I feel that there is an implicit accusation that Brad is a selfish bastard who has no regard for another person's life. It's not like he will come up here to defend himself. Someone has to help, so here I am.
A body being cut in half by a tensioned rope on this ledge might be an exaggeration. But more importantly, I'm pretty sure if Brad had thought there was even a 0.1% chance of him falling on this easy down climb, he would not have done it that way. He did admit the speed ascent was a dangerous pursuit, but the danger is definitely not here. And sure, the rope may cause discomfort running in front of that climber, but he -- the climber -- apparently was not mad at all, and was able to extract himself swiftly, which appeared to be well understood by everyone present.
Now, for anything we do, a bystander can probably provide a list of risk factors. You climb right? Following all have happened in real life that I can provide names for:
 Leader has taken a fall onto the belayer and broke her neck
Climber above has pulled rock off and killed a climber below. Happened multiple times, even just within YNP
Haul bags have been dropped that broke legs
If you look at it that way, just the fact that you climb at all could potentially put another person (or others) at risk.
Let's not take this too far ... I for one share the awe that the climbers in the video felt in that amazing moment (ok, 13 minutes) ...
* "you and you" -- that was awkward English, but these days people have high demand for political correctness that I'm afraid that it might sound offensive if I say "you guys".
|
|
Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2017 - 10:34pm PT
|
Lil run out...
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2017 - 10:40pm PT
|
Is lil run out a rapper?
|
|
mcreel
climber
Barcelona
|
|
That actually looked less hairy than what I always imagined. The were moving fast, but not crazy. About 8 min between the two of them, on relatively easy ground.
|
|
Rexi
climber
|
|
@Mei
I guess this is the trouble with forums, I did not mean that Brad is a selfish bastard, not at all. I know that climbing is dangerous and with multiple parties on one route there is an inevitable increase in risk.
My point was simply that after watching speed climbers at work it left me thinking about the added risk that me and my brother thought was added to what is happening on a wall. I´m not saying it is wrong and that one style of climbing is ok and another isn´t, just one more thing to think about. During our short trip in Yosemite we witnessed rockfall on 3 occasions, by climbers simply knocking rocks of ledges by accident. All of those rocks were pushed by speed parties (not brad and Jim) on two occasions the climbers didn´t even notice.. not saying other climbers don´t knock down rocks but to us it seemed to add to the risk.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
* "you and you" -- that was awkward English, but these days people have high demand for political correctness that I'm afraid that it might sound offensive if I say "you guys".
You could have just said "you," which is the second personal plural as well as the second person singular.
Or you could have said "both of you," used their names, or done any number of other things other than "you guys" or "you and you."
There was no reason to say "you and you," which sounds like you're picking people out of a queue or something--it is not the right way to say it.
|
|
Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
|
|
Re: "you and you"
You could have just said "you," which is the second personal plural as well as the second person singular.
Or you could have said "both of you," used their names, or done any number of other things other than "you guys" or "you and you."
There was no reason to say "you and you," which sounds like you're picking people out of a queue or something--it is not the right way to say it.
I apologize for the distraction that silliness has caused. I was just fresh off of a feminism discussion at the time. While I hold the view that feminism can be taken too far (esp. when people start making demands in areas that do not have direct relationship with genders) , I do try to be sensitive to others' needs. Since I was not sure if Rexi was a male or female name, I found myself erasing "you guys" I naturally typed. I did intend to address only two people who appeared to question whether Brad's action was putting others' lives in danger, but you are very right in that there are many better ways to address that than the silly "you and you," which must sound very rude to many native English speakers. It was not my intention, and sorry about the miscommunication. As a matter of fact, the thought popped up in my head a few times that I should just edit my post to remove that silly and irrelevant political correctness attempt, but I forgot to do that every time I sat down in front of my computer. Too late now since it's been quoted.
Back on topic ... I look forward to listening to that podcast interview.
|
|
EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
|
|
|
Apr 16, 2018 - 01:42pm PT
|
Thanks beverages.
Awesome TR.
|
|
aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Apr 16, 2018 - 07:45pm PT
|
Dear Fossil Climber:
Back when you did it with Harding, if someone had come up to you and said, "Someday a couple of guys will do the same climb in about two hours and twenty minutes" What do you think you would have said?
|
|
| Messages 1 - 117 of total 117 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!