Discussion Topic |
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| Messages 1 - 37 of total 37 in this topic |
Climberdude
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Oct 16, 2017 - 07:57pm PT
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Looks nice, but I suspect it is expensive. The large protruding head looks like it may interfere with a carabiner during an upward pull. I wonder what language they have in the use manual regarding this issue?
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briham89
Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:08pm PT
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Would this be a rivet ladder replacement? I can't really think of the use of this. Other than not wanting bolts on a crag from an aesthetic standpoint?
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:13pm PT
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Once permanent anchors are outlawed and we have to bring a rack of these and follow the holes I will be screwed. I'm terrible at routefinding.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2017 - 08:21pm PT
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Briham, I could see them being handy. Imagine a crag at a high use area for non climbers. Using these as top anchors instead of leaving stuff under foot all the time might make sense. But adoption rate would make it hard to get to a point where most communities had these available.
So 1) the lone low impacter climber. Sets his solitary rope solo rig and leaves the place exactly as he found it, except for tiny holes and a dusting of chalk.
2) the activist. She drives resolution to land manager concerns by reducing visible impact and saves they day for all climbers by avoiding an outright ban on climbing. However, thereby setting a precedent that other areas may or may not pick up...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2017 - 08:23pm PT
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Mark, 36 british pounds for price from what I can see so far.
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ec
climber
ca
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:30pm PT
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Here’s an image of one made by David Hickey; used in Sequoia NP on some FA’s. This one was tested by Climbing Mag (Duane Raleigh?). Stainless Tube welded onto a stainless Metolius Hanger. When the central bolt is tightened, the ‘nut’ on the end offsets like on a bicycle headset. The Petzl one-hand, push-button is brilliant.
 ec
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ruppell
climber
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
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Is Climbtech still making the 1/2" RB?
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ec
climber
ca
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:35pm PT
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Locker, when you bail-off, make sure you don’t leave any gear! Leave some dowels...
RB’s were total sh*t.
ec
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:37pm PT
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So far as climbing is concerned, the main reason for using a removable bolt is for ease of replacement, using the old hole without drilling, etc.
This bolt must have lots of applications, but I don't see rock climbing as one of them. And what about dragging your shin over that knob thing in a fall.
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ec
climber
ca
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
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Kris, sometimes when it is doubtful that the route would be frequented, say like in a remote setting, this seems acceptable to me, IMO. It’s not much different than bringing/using/reusing a rack of cams or Keyhole hangers, for that matter.
BYOB
ec
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:55pm PT
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Someone please get Elon hooked on climbing.
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ec
climber
ca
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Oct 16, 2017 - 08:56pm PT
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Worst-Case Senario: Grid Drilling of popular, but formally runout routes so that protection possibilities are there for the masses. Holely Crap!
ec
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2017 - 09:00am PT
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good point ec. "If you don't like it, don't bat hook it" becomes the safety community mantra? yowzer!
oh, and that Hickey bolt is wild! tfpu!
tut, yeah, I could see that!
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2017 - 09:06am PT
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Aprox $40 each.
Climbing used to be a simple thing until the masses showed up and made it into a commercialized religion .....
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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Oct 17, 2017 - 10:14am PT
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Climbing used to be a simple thing until the masses showed up and made it into a commercialized religion .....
Haha Werner......yet here you are on a commercialized website. Have a happier week, Old Fart! ;)
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Oct 17, 2017 - 10:33am PT
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They should also sell some kind of scraper to clean out the hole of muck/bugs/pebbles... All kinds of amusing potential for the name of that one.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2017 - 12:44pm PT
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Two scenarios with immediate and useful application...
1) establish routes ground up on overhanging terrain (as mentioned above). The intermediate bolt used to get up the wall on aid now becomes just a hole without having to remove an intermediate bolt. If they can't be used on overhangs, that will be a problem, but for body weight only? I can't imagine how it wouldn't be useful between otherwise solid sport bolts for upward progress.
2) low impact climber. Sets his solitary rope solo rig and leaves the place exactly as he found it, except for two tiny holes as his top rope anchor for traxioning and a dusting of chalk.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 17, 2017 - 01:45pm PT
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Low impact climber doesn't drill holes for a one-time climb....
It does come in both 8mm (5/16") and 12mm (1/2").
Might be used as kingtut described - for temporary bolts when fixing a rope down an overhanging project; then remove or deepen for the final bolts.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Oct 17, 2017 - 02:50pm PT
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When the park service says, "no permanent hardware may be placed in wilderness areas."
Just drill holes.
But again, I am bad at routefinding so that would be a nightmare.
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mikeyschaefer
climber
Sport-o-land
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Oct 17, 2017 - 03:13pm PT
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It will be interesting to see what the minimum embed depth is on the 8mm. I think that will make it or break it for a useful tool for groundup hand drilling. The 12mm is 6.5cm so I bet the 8mm will also be pretty deep. I'd probably stick with 1/4" x 1 1/4" for temporary bolts if hand drilling. But if it is ground up power drilling I think these definitely have an application in my world. These seem way more bomber than a 1/4" button head.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Oct 17, 2017 - 03:24pm PT
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Good points about ground up drilling and using these in case the route doesn't go or needs to be changed. That's the first reasonable use I've heard after wasting money on bolts to nowhere.
When bolts dead end on an FA it's easy to pull the hangers and pound the bolts in (if you thought ahead and drilled the extra depth), so you'd be hard pressed to make the cost of a rack of these worth it if you're only losing a couple bucks per wasted bolt.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 17, 2017 - 03:41pm PT
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Mikey,
The PDF says 5cm depth for 8mm.
Could still be a major pain to enlarge an 8mm hole to 10mm
(much harder than enlarging a 1/4" hole to 10mm).
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 17, 2017 - 04:07pm PT
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It strikes me that these are designed for rescue and industrial applications. Petzl has a lot of industrial products in their offerings. Cabled "removable bolts" are jive IMO.
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grover
climber
Castlegar BC
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Oct 17, 2017 - 04:21pm PT
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Steve has a valid point.
I've been on rope access jobs where the client was 100% against fixed anchors.
Over drilling, chopping and patching worked well and appeased the client.
These bolts would have been handy for sure.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 17, 2017 - 04:32pm PT
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Clearly designed for shear loading only.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 17, 2017 - 04:43pm PT
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8mm = 5/16"
10mm = 3/8"
12mm = 1/2"
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2017 - 04:54pm PT
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Big wall first ascent use two on blank face and leap frog.
No need to leave or put bolts in on bolt ladders ....
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Matt's
climber
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Oct 17, 2017 - 05:02pm PT
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I had the same idea as werner-- it would seem that, for a big enough ground-up first ascent, having a few removable bolts could be weight-saving over non-reusable bolts... don't have any experience in this domain so I could be wrong!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 17, 2017 - 05:12pm PT
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The PDF diagram shows they don't intend for it to be used as lead climbing pro.
But the pullout strength looks pretty good.
I wonder why they don't recommend it for lead climbing.
Maybe there's a risk of the biner getting on top of the bolt head.
I also wonder why they don't offer a 10mm version.
That would be easier to deepen for a permanent bolt than the 8mm version.
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JimT
climber
Munich
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Oct 18, 2017 - 12:20am PT
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It´s a temporary industrial rope-access/fall prevention anchor, it isn´t certified for any climbing application.
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allanc
climber
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Oct 18, 2017 - 12:07pm PT
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They would be excellent in at several applications
1) rigging a rescue where you're putting in an
anchor that will never be used again and that is in an
inconvenient (to climbing) spot.
2) film crews and camera operators
3) rigging lines in remote areas (for slacklining,
sport rappelling, basejumping, etc)
4) alpine where you would like to save the weight
by reusing bolts, but still leaving a hole others could
fill in with permanent bolts later.
5) wet areas where you might like to replace bolts frequently
or where even stainless might be suspect to hidden corrosion.
6) architectural uses; you need to drill a couple of bolts to
lower an AC unit or something like that. or just for strapping
personnel in while working.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Oct 18, 2017 - 12:42pm PT
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Will they work with my bolt gun?
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Oct 18, 2017 - 05:15pm PT
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Not for climbing PDS only.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Oct 18, 2017 - 05:28pm PT
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Even a different design that is intended for climbing has issues:
Too hard to find the holes.
Hole may be full of dirt, moss, lichen, insect cocoons.
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Salman
Big Wall climber
Tabriz-Eastern Azerbaijan
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Dec 24, 2017 - 04:16am PT
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Clint Cummins do you have the whole document I couldn't find it!!
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