Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 88 of total 88 in this topic |
hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 12, 2017 - 04:36pm PT
|
My son and I were racking up to do a route at DT when the Park Service Police pull up. Two men get out of the truck and they have a serious, no fun look on there faces. I say Good Morning. They ask how we are and I say "I'm afraid" This sets them off a bit and they ask why? So I say "I'm about to go climb and it always scares me"
This effort to be friendly fails. They keep their heavy on, and they get to the point, and ask my son where he got his hat? He tells them he was used to be a grunt working maintenance for the St. Croix River and this is his old work hat. They tell him that its against the law to wear the hat if you're not working for the NPS- This is the reason they stopped. Now, Neither of us is very fierce, and there was no need for the beetled brow. My son takes off his hat, not a problem. They start to tell stories about what happened to some poor slob who had an NPS patch on his shirt and how they ripped it right off of his shirt. The feeling was if we would have given any sort of push back we would have been on the ground or against the car. For wearing a hat!
I'm thinking about Kerouac and On the Road when he talks about having a cop soul--These two had this very much. Maybe their jobs require the need to always be balled up for potential conflict but they could have just asked us politely and it would have been fine.
A strange and disconcerting way to start a climb.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 04:40pm PT
|
Seig heil!
|
|
AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 04:42pm PT
|
I climbed at Devils Tower with a park ranger once.
He was laughing about an incident the week before. The head ranger fell on the Durrance route, broke an ankle and his underlings did the rescue. He didn't say if they got good performance evaluations for that year.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 04:46pm PT
|
Thats why all my old nps gear went to the appropriate place- the dumpster...
There is good LEO and there is bad LEO... I would file a complaint with the superintendent. It's about all you can do
|
|
hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
|
The rest of the NPS people were aces- hard to say what was going on with those two guys.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 04:59pm PT
|
Was the truck marked with NPS arrowheads and US Park Ranger on it?
How was it marked?
Did it have lightbar on the roof?
Did it have GSA license plates?
Where they official Protection division rangers?
|
|
thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:12pm PT
|
NPS: strange kindergarten-military blend.
technically not illegal, at all. maybe if you wore it while robbing a bank or something.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:12pm PT
|
Hells Angels do the same thing.
Nice to be on the same totem pole as those guys.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:20pm PT
|
I bet that if it was a Navy SEALS hat and you looked the part they woulda
kept on movin'.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
|
welcome to Trumps amerika.
|
|
nathanael
climber
CA
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:31pm PT
|
What if you had the NPS patch tattooed?
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:31pm PT
|
I have had a couple of incidences in Yosemite with the NPS that weren't very pleasant. I have also had many, many more encounters with NPS employees that were great. For the most part NPS employees are helpful and informative. There will always be exceptions where having a badge will lead someone to excess.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:41pm PT
|
Of course, we all have, but you know about apples and barrels, AND WE’RE TALKIN’ ABOUT A FREAKING HAT!
|
|
Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:46pm PT
|
There are good guys and bad guys with NPS, in every park. Ignore the bad ones and hope you guys had fun climbing!
Edit- had a meting earlier today with the acting interim GSMNP and heard some great research updates from our private organization that funds it.
I hope the idiot didn't scare your son too much. Because that would piss me off!!!
Hugh
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
|
Always love a reminder why they are called Tools...
#GreenGestapo
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 05:55pm PT
|
How was your climb?
|
|
hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2017 - 06:08pm PT
|
Way to cut to it Jay
Bon Homme Variation-from my FB page
Proof that the memory is the second thing to go. Flash backwards 35 years and this route was the trade route that we used to do to shake off rust at Devils Tower. This was what we did to stretch out. So I go back with my son David to climb this. It was like something from the Twilight zone. The first 25 feet are not the hand crack of my memory but they have morphed into a nasty off-width. The traverse to the left was still as crude as ever. But the kicker was the 150 feet of locker hands was gone, and it was replaced by a long thrutch, wrestle, crack. NO move was easy and after 85 feet I was gassed. No point in just resting and then going again as I could see that my fore arms were flamed. So now we had to figure out how to set up the bail. If you look in the picture you can see that my rope is gone. I clipped into two anchors, then untied and let Dave have the rope to set up his rappel so he could get down to where I was. Then we we set up a hanging belay and then set up the rap. We had to deal with the usual cluster that comes with this type of scene: rope stuck in crack, numb ass from hanging in slings (pain went away 4 days later), question whether rope makes it to ground.
All worked out well and we landed safely.
Still I'm amazed at the gulf between reality and memory
|
|
hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2017 - 06:12pm PT
|
The truck was a white NPS Police type SUV- The guy cruised the campground checking who signed in. I'm thinking it had light bars but I really didn't bother to take down the license plate.
|
|
guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 06:25pm PT
|
hobo dan- what we really need are names of said NPS "Rangers."
Can you provide that?
|
|
hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2017 - 06:33pm PT
|
No-I have no idea what their names are It was the sort of thing that happened and afterwards you kind of shake your head and wonder about it.
Devils Tower Monument was a great place to visit and i feel kind of bad writing about this one event.
|
|
hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 06:34pm PT
|
i asked my beer salesman (think lebowski) why he dropped in to take an order a day early. said he had a court date up at the south rim ... seams his 80's silver blue buick fit someone else's description ... the ranger spotted a can rolling around on the back seat floorboard that had long ago been perforated by the seat slider track. ranger wrote him up for open container ... like even a guy in a bathrobe would ever suck stale keystone out the side of filthy can on his way writing an order for the several pallets of suds it takes to quench a week's worth of grand canyon tourists
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2017 - 06:45pm PT
|
No-I have no idea who they are
You don't even know if they were actual LEO's?
You don't even seem to recognize completely what is walking up to you?
There are several different divisions in NPS.
Which actual division approached you? You don't know?
It could have been two maintenance guys for all you know as you haven't fully described them yet.
You see how this playing out on the internet?
The minute you don't give full details the whole shebang of broad brush strokes startup and everyone gets thrown into a bucket of instant tool ......
|
|
hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2017 - 06:58pm PT
|
Yes I see your point and it is not what happened to us- it was not two janitors who drove up and gave us sh#t. These were rangers who drove up in a park service truck that said Enforcement on it- I only visit the parks I don't live or work there so I cant tell you the different levels of employees. I appreciate your defense of the park service but my point in telling this story was that they were out of balance with their authority.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 02:54am PT
|
Werner, when we get jacked up by someone with a uniform and a badge we usually don't know which level of enforcement they are. all we know is that we are at the mercy of their athority and we are usually scared and just hopeing to get through the encounter alive and without some kind of criminal charge.. If law enforcement wants to have better relationship with civilians they need to ditch the us VS them mentality and start treating us better.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 06:17am PT
|
The LEO rangers have a gun strapped to their waist. They are pretty obvious
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 07:18am PT
|
Gawd, I hate tools. I'm reminded of the tool who got all twisted when we were parked at Lover's Leap and we had a cooler sitting outside the door of our rig. The tool demanded we put it away because, and I quote: "It looks like you're camping." A total and complete ASS. We put it in. He left. We took it out. I hate this type of personality. Grrrrrrr....
BAd
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 07:25am PT
|
Shite always flows from the top. I wonder why I find some NP’s more abrasive than others on a consistent basis. Yosemite always seems more agro than, say, the Tetons or the Black Canyon.
|
|
hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2017 - 07:31am PT
|
I would agree Jim--The City of Rocks was totally welcoming--I'd go back there any time
|
|
Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 07:40am PT
|
The very word 'enforcement' makes me bristle. Force all gun toters to strip naked and run over hot coals, then make them swim across Tenaya Lake I say! See how bad ass they are then.
Sorry, I know there are many good LEO's out there but, I've had my share of intimidating confrontations with real tools in my youth so, I avoid them all like the plague these days.
|
|
gruzzy
Social climber
socal
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 08:09am PT
|
Sometimes I get a mean waiter too
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 08:15am PT
|
“Sometimes”? I guess you don’t go to France very often.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 08:15am PT
|
Mean waiters are easily dealt with when it gets time to lay down the tip.
|
|
the idle rich
climber
Estes Park, CO
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 08:51am PT
|
Jim,
Are you suggesting that we tip rangers when we get good service?
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:03am PT
|
So the OP is mad that the rangers gave his son a break and let him go rather than arresting him for what appears to be a rather serious crime?
I suppose they weren't quite as friendly as he would have liked when they came upon his son (apparently) committing said crime?
I would also suggest that starting a conversation with an LEO by telling a weird, awkward "joke" is probably not best practice. I know that I would prefer that an LEO keep his "jokes" to himself when dealing with me, and I'd keep that mutual.
(I don't mean to say that I necessarily think the son was committing a crime; I really have no idea other than coming across the following in one minute of Googling. Just thinking of it from the LEO's perspective.)
18 U.S. Code § 912 - Officer or employee of the United States
US Code
Whoever falsely assumes or pretends to be an officer or employee acting under the authority of the United States or any department, agency or officer thereof, and acts as such, or in such pretended character demands or obtains any money, paper, document, or thing of value, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:08am PT
|
Most of you were tools in your previous lives and now suffering the karmic reaction of being tooled in your present life .....
:-) Bahahhahaha
|
|
monolith
climber
state of being
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:15am PT
|
Blahblah says wearing the hat is a rather serious crime and also thinks the nurse who was violently arrested doing her job was only mildly inconvenienced. I think we know where blahblah resides in the authoritarian spectrum.
|
|
drF
Trad climber
usa
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:25am PT
|
welcome to Trumps amerika
You were getting tooled long before Trumpito. Just can't get that taste out of your mouth
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:28am PT
|
Same as it ever was....
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:31am PT
|
Blahblah says wearing the hat is a serious crime, but thinks the nurse who was violently arrested was only mildly inconvenienced.
Wow you got a lot of nonsense into a short post! Sort of impressive.
I specifically noted that I don't know if the son was committing a crime. But if he was, it appears to have been a rather serious one (punishment of up to 3 years in prison).
I'm not sure if we have enough context to know how strong the case against the son was, and I'm not sure if there are other laws/regulations that may be in play.
Back to the nurse: I never heard that she was "violently" arrested as opposed to merely "arrested." As I recall, the cop sort of marched her out of the hospital, she sat in the squad car for a few minutes, was released, and that was that.
I suppose that could be considered to be "violent" under an incredibly wussifed view of the world . . . seems like we got a lot of snowflakes on this thread.
Edit:
It's not a crime to wear a hat with a fed logo. That stuff is all over the place:
https://www.filson.com/usforestservice/collection.html
Yeah I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical that wearing the hat was a crime . . . at least not without something else going on that suggests that the son was impersonating a government employee.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:32am PT
|
Why aren’t those guys pulling over the Harley riders who are really spoiling the parks?
|
|
Nick Danger
Ice climber
Arvada, CO
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:48am PT
|
"We as a nation need to ditch the us vs them mentality"
T Hocking for the win. This is the best political comment I have seen this year.
Thanx
|
|
IntheFog
climber
Mostly the next place
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 10:02am PT
|
Not to be pedantic, but...it seems to be a stretch to think 18 U.S. Code § 912 applies here. The text of the statute clearly says that someone has to do two things to violate the statute:
First, they have to "pretend" to be a Fed;
Second, they have to either: a) "Act" like a fed; OR b) Use the pretense to get someone else's valuables.
I don't see how simply wearing a hat qualifies as "pretending" to be a Fed. And from the OP's story, I don't see that the kid was "acting" like a Fed, or stealing people's stuff.
Maybe there's some law that says you can't wear an NPS hat unless you work for the NPS, but it isn't 18 U.S. Code § 912.
|
|
guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 10:15am PT
|
Hell man, head out to the Ranger Station and confront the "men" in a simplified manner of wanting to know their names and badge numbers and take it from there. Balls to the Wall approach and have some fun with it. They are the ones in the uniform and have a set of official rules to play by.
|
|
the idle rich
climber
Estes Park, CO
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 10:18am PT
|
This is the applicable statute for wearing or using the NPS insignia (Arrowhead) without permission. Despite what is written here, you would have to be a total idiot or incredibly bored to take the time to enforce this in the situation that was related. A bit of common sense would go a long way.
Title 36: Parks, Forests, and Public Property
PART 11—ARROWHEAD AND PARKSCAPE SYMBOLS
Contents
§11.1 Definitions.
§11.2 Uses.
§11.3 Power to revoke.
§11.4 Penalties.
Authority: 54 U.S.C. 100101, 100751.
return arrow Back to Top
§11.1 Definitions.
(a) The term Arrowhead Symbol, as used in this part, refers to the insignia of the National Park Service prescribed as its official symbol by notice published in the Federal Register of March 15, 1962 (27 FR 2486). That symbol, use of which had been limited by notice published in the Federal Register of October 22, 1968 (33 FR 15605-06), has been reinstated as the Service's official emblem. The term “Parkscape Symbol,” as used in this part, is the same insignia referred to in the Federal Register notice of October 22, 1968, as the “National Park Service Symbol.” The “Parkscape Symbol” has been prescribed as the official tie tack or pin to be worn by all National Park Service uniformed employees. Moreover, the tie tack or pin may be worn by employees of the Service when not in uniform as a part of their civilian attire.
(b) The term commercial use as used in the regulations of this part refers to use of the “Arrowhead Symbol” or the “Parkscape Symbol” on souvenirs or other items of merchandise presented for sale to the public by private enterprise operating either within or outside of areas of the National Park System.
(c) The term noncommercial use as used in the regulations of this part refers to nongovernmental use of the “Arrowhead Symbol” or the “Parkscape Symbol” other than as described in paragraph (c) of this section.
[35 FR 8734, June 5, 1970, as amended at 62 FR 30234, June 3, 1997]
return arrow Back to Top
§11.2 Uses.
The Director may permit the reproduction, manufacture, sale, and use of the “Arrowhead Symbol” or the “Parkscape Symbol”, with or without charge, for uses that will contribute to purposes of education and conservation as they relate to the program of the National Park Service. All other uses are prohibited.
[36 FR 16508, Aug. 21, 1971]
return arrow Back to Top
§11.3 Power to revoke.
Permission granted under this part by the Director may be rescinded by him at any time upon a finding that the use of the symbol or symbols involved is injurious to their integrity or inconsistent with the purposes of the National Park Service in the fields of conservation and recreation, or for disregard of any limitations or terms contained in the permits.
[35 FR 8734, June 5, 1970, as amended at 36 FR 16508, Aug. 21, 1971]
return arrow Back to Top
§11.4 Penalties.
Whoever manufactures, sells or uses the “Arrowhead Symbol” or the “Parkscape Symbol” in violation of the regulations of this part shall be subject to the penalties prescribed in section 701 of title 18 of the United States Code.
[35 FR 8734, June 5, 1970, as amended at 36 FR 16508, Aug. 21, 1971]
|
|
ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 10:49am PT
|
I have two older friends that like to wear their hats and wander into campfire parties with lots of younger kids. One says FBI the other DEA. Always freaks them out.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 11:24am PT
|
Picture of hat?
Picture of route?
Picture of bloody meat hands after wards?
Just sayin...
|
|
kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 11:36am PT
|
It sucks to be given such a hard time about something as trivial as a hat.
Fortunately the couple encounters I've had with NPS rangers were the opposite of that, though not at Devil's Tower.
A few summers ago we had a campsite in Tuolumne Meadows, were confused when paying for the dates, and when we got back to camp that evening someone else's tent was in the spot and all our stuff was gone. It turned out we hadn't paid for the final night we expected to be there. A Park employee made a radio call for us and in about 10 minutes a ranger appeared. He and another ranger had packed up all our stuff and put it in the shipping container at the campground entrance. Everything was neatly arranged, and even the dehydrated food we'd left soaking in the bear box was intact and still in the pots. The ranger helped us move all the stuff to our car, and I noticed his name tag and that he was Jesse McGahey, who'd been a climbing ranger a few years earlier in the Valley. He even offered us an emergency camp spot as it was so late, but we declined and just drove out of the Park to bivy. Super polite, professional and very nice guy! Talk about giving the NPS a good name.
The other incident that comes to mind was driving back very late through the Meadows and getting pulled over for speeding in the 25mph zone near Lembert Dome. The ranger asked if I knew how fast I'd been going and if I realized I was 10mph over. I apologized, said that we'd just come out from some long days on the eastside, and that I was pretty tired and just trying to get home. He asked what we'd climbed and seemed genuinely interested. We told him, and he said to slow down as the speed limit was in place due to so many bears being hit. He let me go with just a warning, when he could so easily have given me a ticket.
|
|
Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 11:42am PT
|
In August Jaybro, Charlie and I spent a bit of time on a belay ledge with a Devils Tower climbing ranger and he was so wonderful. He and his partner were surveying the bat colonies on the tower. He was funny and kind and smart and suffered through all our questions. However, two other rangers were actually kind of dickish and dismissive.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 01:26pm PT
|
I have two older friends that like to wear their hats and wander into campfire parties with lots of younger kids. One says FBI the other DEA. Always freaks them out.
Yeah that's the vibe I was getting from the OP . . .
Maybe wearing the hat was a bit of a joke, maybe a little fraudulent misrepresentation (I would imagine you get treated a little better by the hoi polloi if they think you're a government employee on duty--maybe that he was a climbing a ranger or something).
The LEOs likely have a lot of experience dealing with this sort of thing and told the story of ripping off the badge of the other guy to try to impress on the young man that impersonating a government official is generally a bad idea (regardless of whether he was technically a committing crime--seems as if it was a bit of an inchoate one if nothing else).
I imagine they adopted the role of the "heavy" to try to scare the young man straight a bit and set him on the right path.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 03:30pm PT
|
Problem is that LEO's live in a bubble. Often all their friends are LEO and they only interact with us in shitty situations. One of my long time climbing partners is a cop and I can see this happening. he is getting more bitter every year from dealing with all the low lifes at work to the point that they have a hard time seeing and treating the rest of us decently. his mentality is everyone lies to him and everyone is a scumbag that is up to no good. That is what happens when you live by the gun and all your friends live by the gun and there is so much anti cop sentiment in the civilian population right now that you and your co workers reinforce yourselfs that every liberal is an as#@&%e....... Tough spiral and a self fulfilling prophesy. every time you jack up one of those liberal as#@&%es the whole spiral gains downward momentum.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 03:38pm PT
|
his mentality is everyone lies to him and everyone is a scumbag that is up to no good
They're not?
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 04:01pm PT
|
JB, you well know that my cup is half full, most of the time.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 04:15pm PT
|
I hate to admit this since I would never do anything like this anymore, but ... I used to work selling lab instruments including to the forensic lab of the Connecticut State Police (Dr Lee) who gave me a CT State Police baseball cap. One time I was driving in Connecticut and someone rear-ended me. I put the baseball cap in the back windshield of the car and we waited for the cops. When the state trooper arrived he told me to leave and I think the other guy was put in handcuffs. I was young at the time and would never do anything like that anymore, but in the future I'd recommend putting the NPS cap in the windshield instead of on your head.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 04:46pm PT
|
Impersonating a nps employee by wearing a hat? Laughable.
DMT
Well how would you impersonate an NPS employee?
That's not really my bag so I wouldn't know, but I think I'd start with the hat and go from there.
This whole thing is sort of a joke (including the fact that the OP was so traumatized by the experience of being warned by seemingly well-meaning LEOs that he had to cry on ST about it), but:
I don't believe it's likely that the son was "just" wearing the hat in the sense that he has a collection of hats and that was just randomly the one he put on.
I think it's much more likely that he figured that at least some people who see him wearing the hat will treat him like a park employee (maybe he gets to cut in line at the start of the route), and he figures if he gets called out on it, he can use the "hey it's just a hat" defense.
I agree that we don't have enough facts to establish that he was committing a crime. But was he headed in that direction? . . . seems like it to me.
|
|
hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 05:05pm PT
|
do y'all even internet?$14.99
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
|
Where can you buy an authentic NPS hat DMT?
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 06:00pm PT
|
I can buy a cubs hat anywhere. An official NPS hat ? Nope...
Honestly they might have been concerned other climbing parties would mistake the young man as a climbing ranger.
But the prick attitide was unwarranted
|
|
Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
|
Jeezus.. I swear people could argue about an ant on the sidewalk on this site.
|
|
hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 06:48pm PT
|
https://arrowheadstore.com/collections/apparel?view=all
Who can purchase Arrowhead products?
National Park Service employees and alumni, Volunteers-in-Parks, cooperating association employees, National Park Foundation employees and members of the Student Conservation Association are permitted to purchase Arrowhead products.
Do I need an NPS.gov email to make a purchase?
The nps.gov email address assures us that you are approved to purchase Arrowhead items. If you do not have an nps.gov address, include your affiliation in the comments field to help us verify your involvement with the National Park Service.
edit: wow really? you gonna wear it on the inside or out
|
|
GuapoVino
climber
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 07:20pm PT
|
Maybe he's the same NPS ranger that beat the hell out of the senior citizens at the Grand Canyon.
|
|
hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2017 - 08:30pm PT
|
I would agree that joking with the police was not a good idea. I had no idea why they would stop so I was friendly. I was surprised that they would actually bother to stop for a hat infraction- still am for that matter.
As far as impersonating the NPS- we were sorting our rack and gear in the parking lot. Pretty heavy for sure.
Funny the range of responses from everybody.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:51pm PT
|
They didn't stop for the hat.
This is an example of "plausible deniability". There was "something" that didn't pass their LEO scrutiny.
So they needed a story, and here we are dissecting it.
As DMT says, this does not pass the laugh test. PS employees wear official PS uniform elements WHEN NOT ON DUTY all the time. That would be just as illegal.
|
|
fongschway
Social climber
Plainfield, VT
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 05:31am PT
|
I'm going to wear a hat that says "Werner", but I can bet I'm not going to fool anyone....impersonating a real climber....
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 01:08pm PT
|
Jello's sister was one of the passengers in the car at the Grand Canyon incident.
This happens far too much, wannabe cops who, lacking real criminals to deal with, act out on civilians.
To sue them for violating civil rights under color of authority is a long involved process. I know, because I succeeded at it, but there are many problems.
Hopefully bodycams and cell phones will help to bring abuses to light.
But authorities know they have the advantage, and abuses are far too common.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 01:41pm PT
|
If you call the local law here - the San Bernardino County Sheriff - they answer the phone like this:
Sheriff 911. How many people are shot?
If you answer "nobody was shot", they hang up on you. Or they laugh at you, and then hang up.
That's because they're BUSY. With actual crime.
Imagine calling the S.B.S.O. to report someone wearing the wrong hat, in public!
|
|
franky
Trad climber
Madison, WI
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 02:34pm PT
|
18 U.S. Code § 701 - Official badges, identification cards, other insignia
Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
Just want to point out that it is illegal by the letter of the law, outside of the impersonating an officer statute.
|
|
monolith
climber
state of being
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 02:46pm PT
|
The logos are sold on hats and other items at Ebay and Amazon, so not a big deal. NPS could easily stop these items from being sold there if they had not given their approval.
|
|
fongschway
Social climber
Plainfield, VT
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 04:02pm PT
|
My job places me in the Pentagon frequently. There is a store in the visitor's center that sells all manner of stuff. With all sorts of official-looking logos on all sorts of items - shirts, mugs, hats, etc.
That's in the Pentagon. Just saying. Statute or no statute.
I don't think anybody cares. Outside of the NPS personnel called out at the beginning of this thread.
|
|
IntheFog
climber
Mostly the next place
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 05:07pm PT
|
"except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law..."
In other words, only authorized vendors can sell fake NPS swag. Nice.
If it's legal for authorized vendors to sell fake NPS swag, then obviously it's legal for civvies to "possess" the fake NPS swag they've bought. But what about ex-employees, who have real swag they got from the gubmint? Is it ok for them to "possess" that swag?
Looks to me like there's a nice law school exam question here.
Does anyone know a US attorney attached to the NPS or to one of the Parks? Maybe you could drop them a line and see what they have to say.
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 05:19pm PT
|
Jeezus.. I swear people could argue about an ant on the sidewalk on this site.
Depends if the ant is a libtard or a repuglican.
|
|
originalpmac
Mountain climber
Timbers of Fennario
|
|
|
Oct 14, 2017 - 10:09pm PT
|
Ionlyski, your friends sound like dicks.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2017 - 07:51am PT
|
hahaha! Me and DMT will be wearing these at various Tooling Zones™™™ around the US:
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2017 - 09:26am PT
|
Jody, thank you. Nice to see you hereabouts!
ps
I thought of you when I got stopped twice within an hour in the middle of Nowhere, Oregon on our way to the eclipse. I was friendly and I got a friendly lecture on the perils of doing 80 and hitting an elk both times!
|
|
guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2017 - 06:49pm PT
|
Dam, Jody that is about the smartest yet posted on this topic!
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
|
|
|
Oct 16, 2017 - 06:56pm PT
|
Some cop, might have been named Judy, pulled me over coming down the grade from Mammoth.
My sin, open container and speed. (I didn't have my MAGA hat at the time)
"I could run you in for this, but I want to go home and eat. BTW I like your jeep."
"Don't open any more of those going down the road."
12-pack on front seat.
Did I heed the warning? News at or about 11:00. BTW, I keep a MAGA hat on the front seat these days.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2017 - 04:01am PT
|
Nice post Jody! :)
|
|
Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2017 - 09:48pm PT
|
Notice the cobwebs? A fading icon of America. What was once viewed as America's parks for enjoyment by all therein are now open for viewing every 30 minutes in the East Auditorium. Or, on relegated boardwalks, roped off view points and shuttle buses that leave from full parking lots and drop off's at roped off areas or other boardwalks with summary video showings, and informative interpretive signs. Selfie Stations, too. Reservations for volunteer clean-up crew accepted from well qualified applicants 5 months in advance only.
Funding for LEO at NPS has probably tripled while campgrounds have shrunk. Who here remembers Smokey Jack, East and West Tenaya, Soda Springs, and Gaylor Creek campgrounds? America's parks for enjoyment shrink every year. USFS campgrounds are shut down by September 30th; what the hell is that?
Meanwhile, some Devil's Tower LEO's finally find a target.
oh yeah, here's one of my hats from BITD. I would feel like a fool to wear it, even on Halloween (for now). Saving it for when I come back.
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2017 - 07:44am PT
|
Jody for the win:
Holy cow, if wearing a hat constitutes impersonating a ranger, than eating a donut constitutes impersonating a police officer.
And to the other poster who said this is akin to arguing about an ant: What, you've never been tooled by a tool? It's a common problem for us climbing folk, part of the culture, and classic stories around the campfire, virtual and literal.
BAd
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2017 - 07:56am PT
|
mmm.. donuts. so hitting Hing's this morning.
The hat tooling.. lame.
All the campground closures.. lame in the extreme. It's a stupid misguided tactic to save money. Dont get me started about mis-use of funds. FS attemped to shut down our Visitor Center just after Labor Day this year to save on payroll.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2017 - 03:21pm PT
|
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime... don't taze me bro!!!!!!!
|
|
ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2017 - 05:54pm PT
|
Damn Houston game in the background Russ!
Peace
|
|
Ballo
Trad climber
|
|
|
Jan 14, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
|
So, I *may* know why this happened:
I have a friend who worked at Olympic NP wilderness trail crew. There was a general manager for maintenance (I don't recall what his exactly title was) who, given stories I read about him, was a tool and a half.
I've never seen him, but he was described as only having upper body strength and wore little girl's t-shirts. He liked to keep his sunglasses perched on the middle of his forehead and walk around swaying, chest out. I don't recall all the stories but one time he walked up on the Trail Crew (his name is Reed):
Reed: Are you the Trail Crew?
TC: Yeah
Reed: Well I'm your BOSS! Head of general maintenance (or whatever)
One of the crew: Yeah, we met when I got injured.
Reed: Well no more of that! I had to do extra paperwork!
My friend: We'll try.
Reed [Leaning over to get right up into my friends face]: No, YOU'LL DO!
Reed [saunters off into the sunset like some hero at the end of a western]
Apparently my friend was wearing a USFS hat in a cafeteria once and got some disgusted looks from Reed (probably due to the white dreadlocks).
He transferred to Devil's Tower before OP's incident and this is the type of sh#t he's known for.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 88 of total 88 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!