Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 38 of total 38 in this topic |
tradflasher
Trad climber
Truckee, ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 17, 2017 - 08:21pm PT
|
9-17-17
Went to climb the 3rd pillar of Dana and arrived to a 5 person group, rapping in.... There was a party at the base about to climb, and two more nearing the base to climb. The group of 5 still proceeded with the dangerous act of rapping in and leaving gear anchors at every station. Never have I seen this type of debauchery on an alpine route.
What does everyone else think??
|
|
Larry Nelson
Social climber
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 08:34pm PT
|
Whoa, never heard of that
Part of the fun is doing 4th class sections on the down climb.
The other climbers must have called them on it
You're right, it's pretty ignorant
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 08:44pm PT
|
Bad behavior but far from surprising.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 08:59pm PT
|
I would be very pissed off if I was at the base climbing. Not sure how much I would say when it came time to the confrontation, but I hope I would convey these points:
1. We made a choice of how much risk to accept, how much risk of rockfall from above, based on knowing who was on the route ahead of us- and to mitigate that risk, we made the effort to get up earlier to be first.
2. When you come in from above, you not only disrespect the people below you and the effort they made to get there when they did, but you put us all in more danger from anything you dislodge.
3. A party of 5 is a clusterfvck that can be fun if you're all in the same group, but it is very irresponsible to subject fellow climbers to that. You make it unsafe for all involved at the moment of moving past each other.
With a relatively popular alpinish climb, this behavior is the climbing equivalent of drunk driving by an elementary school at the time when all the kids get out. Totally offensive and selfish.
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 09:19pm PT
|
I've heard of guides rapping in *left* of the main route.
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 09:30pm PT
|
Welcome to Chamonix . . .
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 09:35pm PT
|
What does everyone else think??
I think you could have spoken to the guys rappeling about it and left this drama in the mountains.
Also, think it is a troll. :)
|
|
F
climber
away from the ground
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 09:52pm PT
|
Sounds like they got there first if they are already on top and rapping down....
Second place is the first loser? Although it sounds like very poor style on their part...
I make a point to never climb underneath anyone, 98% of the time. Exceptions are if I know the party above and what the route is like.
General rule, if you show up to a line and someone is above you, go somewhere else. (2nd pillar of Dana?)
If you don't like it, get up earlier. Or climb somewhere else other than California. Or whine on the Internet.
|
|
TLP
climber
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 10:49pm PT
|
Others have said the key things, I'll just add: Booty!
|
|
Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
|
|
|
Sep 17, 2017 - 11:22pm PT
|
Kinda dangerous scenario.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 04:43am PT
|
Incredibly, Weak ass. Shit!
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 05:37am PT
|
Party of 5 just blows ... going up or down.
Trade route and crowd dodging is always a pain. You need to show up either at 4 AM and be first or 4Pm long after everyone has left the ground.
But.... they were leaving dear... sounds like they left some compensation ?
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 06:48am PT
|
Ho. Lee. Crap! These guys/gals are idiots far beyond reasoning. First of all, FIVE people in one party? Where would you even put them? Some of the belays are a little small. I guess just string everyone out along the entire face? And rapping in is just d#@&%ery unless there were some sort of established line away from the climbing, as Clint seemed to indicate. A party of five is for sieging a route in Josh, i.e. cragging in a mellow atmosphere--not clogging the crap out of a classic multi-pitch alpine route. I hope you just turned around and went somewhere else. Yeah, welcome to Chamonix and one reason I'll never climb there.
BAd
|
|
jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 07:28am PT
|
STFU Skippy you could not lead a single pitch on that. Also If the party of 5 got there first, can do as they like. Rap in climb out is all good. Bad don't call people names look at yourself and all the needy crap you post, just for the attention you so desperately need each day.
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 07:29am PT
|
A plaque marking the start of the "Guides Rappel Route" would help stop such atrocious acts from happening ever again in the future.
Seriously bad scenario.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 08:06am PT
|
Whoa...I certainly don't think that BAd's post deserves an ad hominem response like that. The Op's account mentions that there was already a party at the base so rapping in from above was totally inappropriate.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 08:29am PT
|
I also abhor the idea of a rap route being reserved for guides.
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 09:11am PT
|
I abhor plaques and having parties above me. We were the first party of four or five in August of last year. I would have left if a party was rapping in above us.
Beautiful climb and day for us.
|
|
Bruce Morris
Trad climber
Soulsbyville, California
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 02:29pm PT
|
All I know is I'd sure hate to guide a party of 5 newbies on that route if the weather turned sour (which it can and does quite often during the summer months). What a mess if someone was trying to climb up from the bottom and became entangled in a guided party of 5! What were they thinking or not thinking?
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 04:18pm PT
|
The OP didn't say it was a guided party, another poster said that guides had established a rap route to the LEFT of the climbing route.
Whenever I have worked as a guide I have tried to minimize interference with private parties. If I have trs established at IC and a private party arrives I offer them to take a ride on the trs or pull them if they want to lead.
Most guides are professionals and act in the same manner....AND any climber who has progressed to where they can climb a five pitch 5.10 is well aware that it is not kosher to rap in from above when there are people at the base. To do so cannot be excused by ignorance, it is the mark of a climbing as#@&%e.
|
|
Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 05:13pm PT
|
Wow, Constine. If you really want to make out, I'll have to talk to my wife. You're getting a little too hot. Does your girl friend know you got the hots for BOTH me and Skip? Must be confusing.
BAd
|
|
tradflasher
Trad climber
Truckee, ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2017 - 05:39pm PT
|
Also If the party of 5 got there first, can do as they like
I'm not sure that is very accurate. That was the type of attitude that this post was meant to bring to light. It's not OK to just do as you please always when out climbing, especially if it could endanger others. It's bad practice.
|
|
Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 07:44pm PT
|
The major flaw with that strategy is that if a team is already climbing up, there's a very good chance that after being rapped over, they might be likely to clean the belays as they climb up.
Are you sure it was done by a guide? The Lee Vining guides I've met would never do this. Sounds more like something done by an not-very-experienced leader + a lot of noob friends.
|
|
dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 07:51pm PT
|
The standard way is an easy class 3 (!) downclimb. I'm not sure why anyone would suggest to rap.
Went back up it in the rain once, still class 3.
|
|
tradflasher
Trad climber
Truckee, ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2017 - 08:11pm PT
|
Mr T NOT guide(s). There's been confusion there with none OP responses.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 08:14pm PT
|
Reading comprehension is not a strong point on ST.
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 09:10pm PT
|
I prefer to just wingsuit to the base of 3rd Pillar.
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Sep 18, 2017 - 09:52pm PT
|
If a party decides it's appropriate to rap down a route with a well established class 3 downclimb nearby, you have to wonder at their skill and judgment to be on a particular route in the first place. As for the notion that first in place, first in right, you can drive down the left side of the road when no one is around but that doesn't mean others driving on the right side have to yield because you got there first.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2017 - 05:09am PT
|
Just to be CLEAR;
If you come to the top of a popular climb, especially multi pitch, and double especially with loose, alpine rock, and there are people below you,
You
DON'T
RAP IN!!!
Got it?
It doesn't matter how many times you've seen the video where a knucklehead friend of mines calls the last pitch, " the best. 5.9 in the world!"
He has recanted, btw...
|
|
jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2017 - 06:08am PT
|
Guess I did not read all of the OP post If peeps are at the start then don't rap in, if not do it.
|
|
tradflasher
Trad climber
Truckee, ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2017 - 06:53am PT
|
Just got a photo from a friend that shows for those that are skeptical.
|
|
ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2017 - 10:52am PT
|
^^^^
1) Poor form
2) Obnoxious
3) Stupid
|
|
Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Redwood City
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2017 - 07:40pm PT
|
I hear people now hike to the top of Cathedral peak and rap to the base .
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
|
We need rock police to keep this sh#t organized . . . climbers seem to be failing at coordinating themselves on popular routes.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2017 - 08:22pm PT
|
You go to a poular route, expect problems.....or, resist the herd instinct and seek out hidden gems. No amount of internet forum posting is going to mitigate the inherent problems with popular, accessible climbs within the ability range of a lot of climbers. The paradigm example of a "first world problem."
|
|
LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
|
|
|
Sep 19, 2017 - 09:20pm PT
|
I hope you posted this over on mtproj where the noob millennials will see it . You would have at least 150 responses by now. I'm curious how they got all five of them back up the route.
|
|
tradflasher
Trad climber
Truckee, ca
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2017 - 05:41pm PT
|
Lucky pink
Good call, maybe I will post it there also, good to bring this to peoples attention. Not everyone learns the right or curious way to climb.
|
|
gilly
climber
Mohawk Valley,Ca
|
|
|
Sep 21, 2017 - 02:21pm PT
|
NEEDLESSLY ENDANGERING OTHER PEOPLES LIVES.
THAT IS AS SELFISH AS IT GETS!
ONLY SORRY I WAS NOT THERE TO SPELL IT OUT TO THEM.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 38 of total 38 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!