Discussion Topic |
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 22, 2017 - 09:04am PT
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I was out at a local crag the other day. Place is sort of a regional destination, fun sport climbing. A big group shows up, kids, dogs, beginners, they were climbing on the one slab at crag and were having fun. Then one of their leaders starts pontificating about how that at "real" crags no one would be wearing helmets and that helmets are for gumbies.
Me and the guy I was with both were wearing helmets when we were leading so I'm not sure if her comments were directed at us (though my buddy crushes). I hardly ever did in the 80s and 90s unless climbing something that met my totally arbitrary definition of the type of climb that one should wear a helmet. Over the years, kids, mortgage, close calls, some big falls, I've trended toward thinking a helmet is generally a good idea. To each his own.
I was just surprised to hear some blow hard at the crag tell a group of beginners that helmets are for gumbies!!
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Aug 22, 2017 - 09:19am PT
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I agree with you completely on the necessity of helmets for preventing death and head injuries. But stuff like this, unfortunately, never surprises me. We live in a country with NOT a low percentage of fools..... rock climbers included.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Aug 22, 2017 - 09:29am PT
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Yep, after 45 years on the stone, I now wear a helmet.
Crashed on my beach cruiser last year, head injury, and now I wear a helmet on my bicycle too.
Trying to grow old gracefully, and keep the injuries down.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
Valles Marineris
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Aug 22, 2017 - 09:41am PT
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I am a gumby
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Aug 22, 2017 - 09:42am PT
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Nobody needs a helmet until they do.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 22, 2017 - 10:17am PT
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The other day I pulled up to my front door with my BD Vapor Helmut still on. It was so light weight and unobstrusive I forgot that I still had it on.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Aug 22, 2017 - 10:23am PT
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No excuse in this age of comfortable helmets.
I have always worn one in the CDn Rockies but used to go without one in California. Back in the late 80's I decided helmets were a good idea every time I roped up.
It is a personal decision but it is irresponsible to tell newbies that helmets are for gumbies.
Having said that I had a friend who died of a head injury while wearing a helmet. He took a long fall and hit a ledge. The contact point was just below the helmet brim.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 22, 2017 - 10:31am PT
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People are generally stupid, helmets still don't fix that.
In a local practice ice climbing area with dead vertical pillar stuff up to only 30' or so there once was a visiting young couple from Colorado. They both wore helmets as was their little 2-year old girl. Problem was as Mom belayed Dad their toddler wandered to the base of the wall where stuff, sometimes HUGE, rained down constantly. We made comments to the mother who seemed oblivious only to get the response that she was wearing a helmet, so it's all good, plus they were 'experts' from Kolorado so.....
Finally an older guy next to them rapped down, picked up the little squirming girl from the death zone, deposited her at Mom's feet and proceeded to scream common sense in her face. Dad at this point was being lowered from trees above and proceeded to shove the old man and much frivolity ensued. Needless to say they likely headed back to Colorado. Wonder if that little girl is still alive.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Aug 22, 2017 - 10:54am PT
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People are generally stupid, helmets still don't fix that.
+10
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 22, 2017 - 10:55am PT
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There's a whole department of Neurosurgeons and Neurologists at UCLA who'd kill me if I messed up their fine work by whacking my head against a rock without a helmet on. I have a Petzl, it's super light and out of my field of vision. I've been laying low for a while, but I'll be getting out a lot more now, and that baby goes with no matter how much my buds make fun of it.
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Matt Sarad
climber
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Aug 22, 2017 - 11:21am PT
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I didn't wear a helmet in the 80s, 90s, and after a fractured skull and such a friend handed me one and said, " Don't ever climb without it."
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Scott McNamara
climber
Tucson, Arizona
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Aug 22, 2017 - 11:42am PT
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A helmet has saved my life twice.
1.) Rockfall;
2.) Ground fall.
Like everyone else, back in the dark ages, I almost never wore one.
Now I almost never climb without one.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 22, 2017 - 01:40pm PT
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Here's one for you, from Nigeria. Definitely not for a gumby.
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Aug 22, 2017 - 02:36pm PT
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Ever since I started climbing in 1970 at 15, I have always worn a helmet. I am also a year round bicycle commuter in Portland, OR. Again, I always wear a helmet. It kills me when I see Mom or Dad biking with their kid when the RESPONSIBLE adult is not wearing a helmet, and the kid is. I yell at them and say something like, "Hey Dad, where's your helmet?!" Most of the time they're response is defiant, rather than appreciative. They don't seem to understand that they are giving their child the unconscious message that once you become an adult, your head magically becomes harder than steel and concrete. Do they really want their child growing up with that concept of safety? Why do you think the flight attendant says put on your mask first, then help your child. You have to take care of yourself, before you can help your child. If you become disabled or dead, due to a head injury that a helmet could have prevented, and you can no longer care for your child, is it fair to the child?
Stoopid americans.
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Mike Honcho
Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
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Aug 22, 2017 - 03:07pm PT
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Hilarious topic! Back in my more hardcore sport climbing and even trad days, NEVER a helmet. Now I'll be damned if I even walk up to a crag with nobody on it without the Wifey and I being helmeted up!
It used to be the other way. If you were wearing a helmet you looked goofy to a bunch of sport goobers, or whomever. Now, if you are climbing at any crag with no helmet, it just looks wrong, to me anyways.
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 22, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
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15 years ago when I started climbing and at the same time started browsing ST - I did not know what "Gumbie " mean.
So, racking up for Sacherer at the base of El Cap I asked my climbing friend - " Jim what is Gumbie ?"
-" Gumbie is climber who start one pitch climb with headlamp fixed on his helmet at 10am in the morning"- Jim answered ....
I still try to climb with headlamp fixed on my helmet due to superstition. Every time I forget to mount headlamp on my helmet - I had an epic with unplanned bivy. I never forget yet to put my helmet ..
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Aug 22, 2017 - 03:21pm PT
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^^^^Save $$$$ at Camp Saver. Only $105 for the same helmet, lol! More power to that Amazon vender tho...
When I first started following my mentor up pitches, my wife said I had to get a helmet. Glad I did too, I lost count of all the wired nuts I got hit in the head with that first year.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 22, 2017 - 03:30pm PT
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Whether it's right or not it's true, a lot more helmets at Holcomb and clark canyon than the gallery and rifle
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Aug 22, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
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I've never understood why someone wouldn't wear a helmet?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 22, 2017 - 03:50pm PT
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It's pretty hard to hit your noggin on the rock at Rifle...
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2017 - 03:50pm PT
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What was odd about this encounter was that the helmets are for gumbies comment came from a woman in her thirties. Not the usuall demographic I associate with telling children that safety gear is lame!
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Aug 22, 2017 - 03:51pm PT
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I've never understood why someone wouldn't wear a helmet?
Not to be a contrarian but I wonder why you would.
Except in Canada
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Aug 22, 2017 - 03:57pm PT
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at "real" crags no one would be wearing helmets and that helmets are for gumbies.
Well, people say stupid things all the time and this is a perfect example.
But here's a funny story about helmets. This goes back about to about 1989. Up to that time I had never worn a helmet. Then I read an article about traumatic brain injury in rock climbing accidents and I said to myself, "you know it makes sense to use a helmet". I went out and bought one and took it on my next climbing trip, which was the first trip of the season, April 1st in Yosemite Valley. We started off at Pat and Jack Pinnacle. I got to the base of the cliff and realized I had left my new helmet in the car. I realized it, but didn't bother walking the 5' back to the car to get it. I figured, I've been climbing 9 years without a helmet, what's one more day?
I started up Trough of Justice, which I had done before, but just before crossing right to go up the last bit, I spotted a new bolt up and left. This was on Knuckleheads, but I didn't know what it was at the time. For some unknown reason, I impulsively decided to just head to the new bolt and finish on the new route. I got about 15 feet out and was in unclimbed-on territory, licheny, loose, flakey. I fell and took about a 40 footer with rope stretch, flipped around front to back and smacked the back of my head on one of those big protrusions that cliff has.
My partner rushed me to the Clinic, I had a concussion and the back of my head and neck were all sorts of purples and greens for a week.
And that is why all good gumbies need to wear helmets.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 22, 2017 - 04:10pm PT
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Not to be a contrarian but I wonder why you would.
If I had been belayed by anyone other than you during a certain fall up at the Rincon my brains would have been splattered all over that rock. Not everyone see's, in the blink of an eye, the need to let a sh+tload of rope fly through their belay device. So thanks for that, but the fall itself is a strong argument for wearing a helmet.
Mind you I have tons of photo's from the 80's through around 2007 where I am grateful not to have been wearing a helmet for coolness reasons, especially the hideous buckets they were making back then. One of those things would have cut a number grade off my best rock climbing.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 22, 2017 - 04:38pm PT
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I must admit that I often don't use my helmut when cragging but I always use it for multi pitch rock, and all ice and alpine. It's probably a carryover from when helmuts were so heavy and cumbersome.
With today's helmut technology there is really no reason not to wear them for all climbing....now I have to start practicing what I preach.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 22, 2017 - 05:04pm PT
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I dunno. 4:20 p start for steep snow in rmnp and no helmet was excellent.
hey bro, watch this. it's gonna be awesome
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 22, 2017 - 05:11pm PT
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brother yohn spoke truth. I try to keep it up, as limp as one be.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 22, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
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BITD, helmets were often the mark of Gumbies. The "good" climbers never wore them. Alpine gods like Chouinard wrote nonsense about the effectiveness of natural protective reflexes and decried the use of "cranial prophylactics." The problem was that helmets tended to be very heavy, extremely hot, and stuck up a long way above your head.
I never used them except in alpine situations in which rockfall might occur. The idea that you might hit your head during a fall was simply not a consideration.
What happened is that helmets kept getting lighter, and folks adopted bike helmets as sensible, even though biking through rockfall zones was not a mainstream activity. At some point, most climbers asked themselves why a rock-climbing helmet, which was no heavier and nearly as well ventilated as a biking helmet, shouldn't be worn all the time as biking helmets are. And that pretty much ended the Gumby association.
At the same time, crags became a lot more dangerous because of the crowds on them. In many cases, clueless parties rain rocks and dropped gear down on the ascending hoards below. The North Face of the Eiger may not be much more dangerous than Easy Overhang on a Fall weekend. In addition to the potential for injuries from falling that was always there, it may now be a good idea to put on a helmet as one approaches the cliff face, as even the base may not be so safe.
Sport climbing, which is now be the most pervasive genre, has not adopted helmets, as the overhanging nature of many sport routes makes head impacts unlikely, and one of the developer's tasks is to pry off and trundle all the loose stuff before the dummies have a chance to drop it on their friends. So the mags are full of shots of the "best" climbers without helmets, and perhaps this is where the woman in question came by her ignorance.
But not all sport climbs overhang and in many cases, decking before the first or at the second bolt is a real possibility. Add to this the fact that sport climbers are, with some regularity, dropped by their partners, due to miscommunication, inattention, and incompetence, and the probability of a head impact is not nearly so low as the the unshod elite might imagine.
Like lots of things in climbing, helmets remain a personal choice. The old reasons for not wearing them are mostly gone, and in the meantime a host of new reasons for seeking protection have arisen. So choose wisely friends, and beware of self-declared "expert" testimony!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 22, 2017 - 06:31pm PT
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Not to be a contrarian but I wonder why you would.
A few years ago on New Year's Day at Josh two climbers took remarkably similar falls. Both fell from 15 feet pulling their only piece and took ground falls.
One of them is still climbing today, one lies a sleeping in the grave.
Guess which one was wearing a helmet?
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 22, 2017 - 07:32pm PT
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I've posted my story here before. Short version; friend fell off a thin 10.C @ Taquitz. Zippered all his pieces. He came out fine. Me, had a hole thru my skull from the talus when he impacted me. I wasn't wearing a helmet.
Lack of wearing a helmutt creates gumbies. Helmets are not just for leaders.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Aug 22, 2017 - 08:02pm PT
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BITD, helmets were often the mark of Gumbies. The "good" climbers never wore them. Alpine gods like Chouinard wrote nonsense about the effectiveness of natural protective reflexes and decried the use of "cranial prophylactics."
This is historically accurate. I indeed remember reading a derogatory piece Chouinard wrote about "crash helmets" which certainly influenced me and a generation of climbers in the mid to late sixties to go helmet-less. It was a transitional time with the helmet wearing "Sierra Club-er's" giving way to bandana wearing hippies. Society was changing as was our tribe.
I am just glad I survived all those decades without one and lamented more than once about my son not covering his head for many years. Times have changed and for the good, I'm wearing one now as is my son along with many of my old partners. My wife however continues without but at least she's given up leading......now that was a hard one, kind of like giving up driving.
Cheers,
Charlie D.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 22, 2017 - 08:13pm PT
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Chouinard was talking at a time when virtually no one wore seat belts and nearly everyone smoked cigarettes. Well...times change.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Aug 22, 2017 - 08:28pm PT
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"Chouinard was talking at a time when virtually no one wore seat belts and nearly everyone smoked cigarettes. Well...times change."
Yep.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 22, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
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I had a habit of wearing my helmet in the mountains, and on ice, but not on rock unless I thought I was pushing it...
then three years ago my long time partner, a solid guy with really good judgment and careful with pro placement was climbing out of the top of The Surprise, the last pitch, put a piece in, climbed above it without a piece and slipped on the kitty-litter face.
The sound of his helmet hitting the ledge I was belaying from will stay with me forever. Though he was knocked out for a couple, three minutes while I escaped the belay and made my way over to him, he survived a fall that he wouldn't have without the helmet.
It was easy ground, we were moving well, and we had no idea that we might fall on that ground.
I wear a helmet now, all the time on multipitch, and when leading anything. That was way to close a call for me to maintain the fiction that helmets aren't necessary.
Wear your helmet! It could very possibly save your life. Really!
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 23, 2017 - 07:07am PT
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Wow, Ed, scary. Way BITD a partner took a screamer from at least 30 ft. above me, probably higher. Top piece of only two popped, and the dude slammed into me like a Mac truck. He bounced off the ledge while I somehow held onto the rope. He split my head nicely, and blood poured over my glasses in a red curtain. Fortunately, just a flesh wound, as they say, and scalp wounds bleed like crazy. Had I worn a helmet? Nothing. Also, Tucker Tech knocked a rock onto my unhelmeted on the approach to Bugaboo Spire. More blood. In that case, I hadn't yet put the lid on! Gah. Wear helmets, folks. Yer skullz are soft.
BAd
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 23, 2017 - 08:25am PT
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Top piece of only two popped, and the dude slammed into me like a Mac truck. He bounced off the ledge while I somehow held onto the rope. He split my head nicely, and blood poured over my glasses in a red curtain.
Sounds sorta like my accident, except mine was way more than a flesh wound. That was BITD when no one wore helmets and you were expected to self rescue unless you were on the verge of death. Fortunately for me an EMT and ER doc were climbing next to us and patched me up well enough to walk out and drive to the hospital in Hemet.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Aug 23, 2017 - 09:18am PT
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There's a good chance I would have died or had a traumatic brain injury from a fall a few years back, if I had not been wearing a helmet. Big air to a bounce off a slab, then another big air. The first impact was around my shoulder blades, pretty sure I smacked my head good but the old Petzl Ecrin took care of me.
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ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
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Aug 23, 2017 - 09:25am PT
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For about the last 20 years I wear a helmet every time I climb, regardless of what I'm doing. It seems a popular illusion that there is inherently less hazard with sport climbing than other climbing pursuits. Rock fall is common, swinging falls are common, people dropping crap is common.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 23, 2017 - 11:20am PT
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So a gumby made a remark about helmets being only for gumbies? Youre aware you dont have to even acknowledge the existence or presence of anybody, let alone someone that dumb? You are not required to care or waste a single calorie even thinking about that dummy. Let her find her way the first time someone drop a biner or a rock near her. Her retarded tune will change....and you still dont have to care or pay her any mind.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Aug 23, 2017 - 01:02pm PT
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But that gumby is setting the values for a bunch of kids who are getting into climbing. Having societal reinforcement of a more effective value is a good thing. Without it, new climbers are playing Russian Roulette based on who is showing them how to do things.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 23, 2017 - 02:49pm PT
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Has a lot more merit in single pitch climbing than it used to due to new helmet technology
That being said while sport climbing I can't be bothered to put one on, unless there's something weird going on
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Aug 23, 2017 - 03:52pm PT
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Ojai, I'll sell you my old Joe Brown helmet!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 23, 2017 - 04:26pm PT
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From an article in Climbing...
Virtually no one boulders with a helmet, despite the frequent bruising falls many boulderers take. One who does is the father of the bouldering V-grade and author of the Hueco Tanks guidebook, John "Verm" Sherman, who has had multiple concussions and now sports a helmet on highballs and even some butt-draggers. In a column at dpmclimbing.com, Sherman wrote, "These days, if I can't find a legitimate reason not to wear a helmet, I wear one. Which is 98 percent of the time."
Rodden says her recovery was slow, and she wonders if the concussion is to blame when she has trouble concentrating even today. The symptoms of traumatic brain injury can last for weeks or months—and multiple concussions can cause years of problems. The accident caused Rodden to rethink her stance on climbing helmets. "I hardly ever wore a helmet while climbing in Yosemite, but now I always try to wear one, even if the route is easy," she says.
But sometimes, especially when the climbing is hard, Rodden chooses to leave her helmet behind. When we spoke, she was in Spain for sport climbing on overhanging limestone, and she hadn't even packed a helmet for the trip.
https://www.climbing.com/news/no-brainer-helmet/
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Aug 24, 2017 - 06:54am PT
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I was almost killed by rockfall while free soloing. Took a grapefruit sized rock to the head.
Any real alpinist who has spent time on the receiving end of a rockfall barrage will tell you that "real" climbers wear helmets.
Modern helmets are crap. I still have my Joe Brown.
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Loco de Pedra
Mountain climber
Around the World
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Aug 24, 2017 - 02:49pm PT
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Many times im the only one wearing a helmet when sport climbing.
I know might not be cool for some but I can live with that.
For me is a matter of style. Each to his own.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Aug 24, 2017 - 03:09pm PT
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"I've never understood why someone wouldn't wear a helmet?"
Not to be a contrarian but I wonder why you would.
Except in Canada
Six concussion and some long talks from doctors. Granted, none of them were climbing, but I still feel weird without a helmet.
Also, I suck at climbing and occasionally notice the rope behind my leg.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Aug 24, 2017 - 03:16pm PT
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Here's a nerd/gumbie on top of Snowyside Peak in Idaho's Sawtooth Mountains, back in 1971 with a REI helmet & Levis.
Oops! I was the nerd!
I got less gumbie/nerd-like, after I bought an Ultimate Helmet & Chouinard wool knickers in 1974.
Yeah, & I seldom wore a helmet for rock-climbing at a crag, until I got my new Petzil helmet in 2010.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 24, 2017 - 03:56pm PT
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My three helmets:
Homemade climbing helmet on Mt. Moran (plz also note tube socks)...
Pakistan...
Fairview...
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Aug 24, 2017 - 04:46pm PT
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For work only.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 24, 2017 - 08:59pm PT
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Never used to wear one except when climbing ice or couloirs. Nowadays, as Donini mentioned, they're so light that it's hard to justify not wearing one. Now that my daughter (she's 13) is starting to climb outside I try to wear one to set a good example and not to be a hypocrite. I wore one at Clark Canyon last week and forgot I was wearing it. It would have also helped years ago when someone tossed a rock off the Apes Wall, clocking me on top of the head.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Aug 24, 2017 - 09:07pm PT
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Was happy to be wearing one when my (ex) climbing 'partner' threw the rope then yelled 'rope'. Crouched against the wall and waited for the impact. Helmet helped but probably not the end. His explanation was 'gravity took over'. Yeah, but you could have warned me before launching it.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 25, 2017 - 11:20am PT
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I was just surprised to hear some blow hard at the crag tell a group of beginners that helmets are for gunbies!!
I'm surprised that you were surprised by that. You haven't met very many humans, have you? :-) Sounds like they hadn't met very many climbers.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Aug 25, 2017 - 11:37am PT
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so offensively lame looking and feeling
No helmet looks more lame or feels worse than a concussion or crushed skull with bone fragments in the brain. And it's certainly a lot less offensive than causing your partner to mess up their evening plans because they have to drive you to a hospital or fill out some report or give a statement about how you died.
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labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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Aug 25, 2017 - 12:09pm PT
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^^ x2 ^^
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 25, 2017 - 12:12pm PT
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41 years ago I wore a helmet skiing at Snowbird and endured endless taunts.
Last winter I skied Vail and almost everybody had a brain bowl.
But no amount of protection can fix stupid.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 25, 2017 - 08:50pm PT
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People used to be such idiots for not wearing helmets. I wonder if they realized that they were idiots at the time? On the plus side though, I guess they did help spawn the generation of super geniuses that we are now.
But still, even today, some people still can't do simple math, like:
pain of concussion > embarrassment of wearing helmet,
and they get all caught up trying to compute the risk of hitting their head versus the certainty of embarrassment of wearing the helmet, the social standing value of being a tough guy, and on and on and on.
What are they thinking??!! Seriously, cost of concussion > cost of embarrassment. It's trivial. It always surprises me how much other people just suck at math.
Someday we'll all be geniuses and believe what I believe. Ad nauseum.
But maybe don't hold your breath waiting for people to stop being impressed by their own awesome thought processes. You too?
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Aug 25, 2017 - 08:53pm PT
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Why don't you just stop climbing altogether? You'd be so much safer.
Do the math.
Lots of idiots wear helmets and think they're safe. They expect to be able fall and not get hurt. Lot's of people die wearing helmets. Rock climbing is very dangerous helmet or not. Knowing the fuk what your doing is way more important than wearing a helmet.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Aug 25, 2017 - 09:01pm PT
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Right? The safest thing would to just be dead. But I think it would be hard to congratulate ourselves on how right we are and how wrong other people are at that point, so maybe we're better off doing it this way. I don't know - you do your own math :-)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Aug 26, 2017 - 10:15am PT
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For a while i'd wear my Ultimate climbing helmet when i drove.. Partly to mess with other motorists.. I like wearing my old cycling helmet when sheet rocking lids... A helmet saved my noggin when i went over the bars at 25mph in a road race up in Yerington..
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 26, 2017 - 10:57am PT
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Knowing the fuk what your doing is way more important than wearing a helmet.
The same thing is true with driving and wearing your seat belt.
We've done a lot of climbing together, some of it pretty risky. I think the only time you've seen me with a bucket on was on El Cap? But these new one's are nice. Super light and out of your vision, so I bought one. Several other climbers on this thread who certainly know WTF they're doing have made the same choice. Plus the examples I posted above of Beth Rodden and John Sherman.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Aug 26, 2017 - 11:31am PT
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From left to right ~ Rock ~ Whitewater ~ Ice(w/out! Visor) Drunken resistance
When this need to debate the point of the benefits of wearing protection comes up
I can't help thinking of the great and doomed who many of us have known over time?
Helmets save lives
save good folks from years of drooling as the result of a traumatic brain injury.
Not that I like them or that I wear one at all times
There is no accounting for stupidnot shown are ski helmets for girls & boys
Please, if you lead climb, not a moment on the sharp end should happen without a
Bucket or safety lid on your head,
life after ? If you can call it life ?
what ever you want call it , it is cruel,
To cruel
Especially given that the entrapped soul lived to cling to the naked edge of the precipice
playing with gravity , always game to Climbing the Other, under side,
Living over the edge, walking the overhanging
A entity that defined a Free Spirit,
[had a moniker]
the very essence of embracing
and so embraced by the freedom of the high and wild !
That, if to then 1/2 exist ?
In some, more guarded, minds, Death may be preferable ?
I think often of a hero, who Inspired for so long, it was not that long ago
How is Wayne Crill?
#
V V V Wow! Thnx [magic Mnt] man!
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Aug 26, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
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We've done a lot of climbing together, some of it pretty risky.
Kris! Hell yeah! Mostly it was YOU doing the risk! LOL! You used to be quite a daredevil :-) I wasn't harping on people who wear helmets at all, to each his own as far as I'm concerned. I just hate it when someone tries to shame people for not wearing one, or call them idiots. I've never worn a helmet while climbing in 27 years and have never been hurt other than falling off boulders...I guess I'm just lucky.
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vlani
Trad climber
mountain view, ca
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Aug 31, 2017 - 02:33pm PT
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Those less fortunate of us who happened to have some brains inside that case should sure ware helmets. The others do not need to bother - in an unfortunate event of skull breakage the duct tape will carry you through the rest of your adventure, and when the time is right some screws will do nicely, with Cadillac option of solid oak replacement on the table.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 31, 2017 - 02:44pm PT
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Not all climbs are equal. Always wear one at Tahquitz never at Holcomb. Being able to objectively assess all hazards, to ones personal level, is the game.
Don't assume because someone isn't wearing a helmet that they haven't taken the risk into account - likely they have, as we all do, every day of our lives be it driving or deciding to go to work instead of f*#king off.
Soon helmets will be the norm if they aren't already, but I didn't learn climbing just now and I like the wind through my hair - even if it might end up killing me. Watched my best friend die from a TBI with a helmet on, been concussed myself a few times, though never had an injury climbing. I know it's a serious game but that's why I play it in the first place.
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vlani
Trad climber
mountain view, ca
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Aug 31, 2017 - 02:49pm PT
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Like soloists who never take into account risk of falling and not dying, people who do not ware helmets on rock never take into account all possible consequences. That is plain obvious.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 31, 2017 - 03:19pm PT
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plane*
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 31, 2017 - 03:23pm PT
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people who do not ware helmets on rock never take into account all possible consequences. That is plain obvious
that is one ignorant comment
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Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
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Aug 31, 2017 - 03:27pm PT
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These days, I almost always carry my helmet on my pack, and most of the times, I don't find a need to wear them on my climbs. I assess the situation and use my judgement for the situation I'm in. I never question others' choice to wear one.
One time, I had to commute to work in a bad wind storm. I spend 20+ minutes driving on the woody mountain roads on my commute, where trees often times fall down. While I did not choose to skip work, I did choose to wear my helmet inside my car while driving. Felt funny.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 31, 2017 - 04:29pm PT
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You used to be quite a daredevil :-)
It's funny how that works. You'd think that when you're in your prime and have a lot of life ahead you would be careful to guard that, whereas when you have less time left you would be more willing to risk it all. But the opposite is the case for most of us. I guess it's a kind of supply and demand, the less there is the more it's worth.
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Mar'
Trad climber
Fanta Se
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Aug 31, 2017 - 05:32pm PT
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AP said:No excuse in this age of comfortable helmets. (to not wear a helmet).
I remember wearing one (as a beginner leading another beginner) on the Trough (Tahquitz) in the 70s once, just cuz I got a light-weight one from somebody. I liked it but the poor people below me were certain I was goona knock rock down on them. They yelled up "Please don't drop any rocks on us!!"
Up 'til then we hadn't~ nor did we.
I only wore it the one time, and I gave it back to that person.
I wear a helmet most of the time now (I have a BD Vapor), but I have no confidence in its surviving a direct hit, either from above or from me auger-ing into the mountain whether it be rock and/or ice.
Those excellent Joe Brown hand-laid fiberglass helmets were real helmets.
I killed one and I lived. Today's helmets are BS.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 31, 2017 - 08:27pm PT
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Everything in insurance is actuarial. My conclusion from that is that more climbers are wearing helmets, therefore more climbers who get injured are wearing helmets. I have a hard time with the idea that, for the great majority of climbers, a helmet makes them more willing to risk a fall.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 31, 2017 - 08:55pm PT
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Charles Darwin HATES helmets!
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 31, 2017 - 09:18pm PT
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Helmets are stupid until you fall and hit your head and die or a dislodged rock or carabiner hits you and you die.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Aug 31, 2017 - 10:47pm PT
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Kevin, No helmet ice climbing or mountaineering?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Kevs from california we don't do that shit
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Al Fylak
Trad climber
Rochester Hills, MI
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I think helmets are for experienced climbers who have been to areas with loose rock and/or ice. I did not wear a helmet for 10 yrs until I started mountaineering and ice climbing in the 90's. After observing much ice/rock fall, it seemed stupid not to wear one! Since then I have been in several situations where the helmet saved me head lumps or worse. If you climb long enough .. you will start wearing a helmet. It may not save your life in all situations, but if you live after a head hit .. you will be glad you wore the head dome.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Just back from a climb in the Black Canyon. No gumbies there and helmets on every head.
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hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
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I will speak only for myself. In regards to a previous poster, in no way, shape, or form do I ever feel "braver" when I strap on a helmet (I wish it was that simple actually), nor have I ever been more willing to risk a fall, and I certainly don't think it makes me more immune from injury.
I have a hard time believing anyone would think that they are more immune from injury or death just because they happen to be wearing one, but then again what some people believe never ceases to amaze.
On a side note I rode my bike in San Francisco for years without a helmet. I guess I was intoxicated with young man's immortality syndrome because I couldn't be bothered to actually wear one.
Now I wear a bike helmet, and sure enough, one day I got hit by someone running a red light. I remember thinking that it was like I was a little doll and a giant hand grabbed my head and and slammed it into the windshield. I had no control over the forces of physics, which is a very sobering feeling.
I'm just glad it happened after I started wearing a helmet.
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Abissi
Trad climber
MI
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My lifelong goal is to avoid drooling all over myself while sip and puffing into a little hose to move my chair back and forth. a good goal to live life by: AVOID THE DROOL - wear a bucket.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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^^^^^^^
Good advice.
BAd
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Just wear your goddamn helmets and stop trying to justify your pussification.
:-)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Rincon, you took this picture. Lucky for you you didn't call me a pussy then, I'd have knocked you over your helmet-less noggin with a jumar just to teach you a lesson...
:-)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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DON'T SAY FUK IT
GET A BRAIN BUCKET
GET IT
ITS PLASTIC AND PROTECTS UR BRAIN
C U AT NEW JACK CITY!!!1
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Climbing in Yosemite on September 7, 2017. The leader flipped the rope above me and a pebble hit my sunglasses hard in the lens. Good thing I had sunglasses on. Yes, I was watching me leader instead of being distracted. I have had small rocks hit my helmet also a few times.
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kenman
Trad climber
Centennial, CO
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Sep 15, 2017 - 03:08pm PT
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I remember as a kid. No one wore a helmet while biking. Ramps, jumps, doing 40+ downhill on a road. No helmet. Now I would not think of it. When I started climbing, I did not wear one. Now I might not if toproping at a safe spot but I always wear one sport, trad whatever. I was on the ground and a ground squirrel knocked off a rock. It hit right on top of my helmet. WOuld have left quite a nasty gash if not for the helmet.
Just like a bike. Just like Skiing. Just wear a helmet.
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Faafo
Trad climber
Carlsbad
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Sep 15, 2017 - 04:06pm PT
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My parents have been making me wear a helmet since I was a baby. I am now 28 years old and still wear it daily. Helmets aren't for gumbies.
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Sep 15, 2017 - 04:18pm PT
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People should just wear helmets at all times.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Sep 15, 2017 - 04:51pm PT
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Bernt Prause was the pioneer.
when the Joe Brown came it at 35 ounces, he developed a chopped carbon fiber polyamide soup that was injectable, the result, the Edelrid 15 ounce helmet, that was stronger and more resistant to puncture than the Joe Brown. 1988 i think. all that followed owe him thanks...
I loaned mine to someone i thought was a friend when he needed it for Denali, i never got it back.
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Sep 16, 2017 - 11:48am PT
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Been climbing for 57 years. Started in 1961 at the age of 28. Wore a helmet once on Whitney’s east face in 1963 (not sure what sport it was designed for, certainly not climbing). I hated it. Kept hitting my head on little overhangs and projections. Haven’t worn one since. Not proud of that fact.
Yes, even before he put it in print, Yvon told me “You don’t need a helmet unless you’re climbing where rockfall is probable”. He had just (1961) climbed Edith Cavell with Beckey and Doody. Loose, very loose. Lots of rockfall.
So with that in mind and my experience on Whitney, I never purchased a helmet. However, I considered it late one day in August of 1964 when, on the first ascent of Pingora’s north face in the waning light, Aaron Schneider loosed a fusillade of rocks from the top of the last pitch. The last pitch is a steep rotten gully. Ed Speth (RIP) and I were positioned at the gully’s base when the rocks and Aaron’s “Rock!!” got our attention. I could see the sparks of the rocks as they approached our ledge and instinctively ducked just below the top of the ledge in front of me – just barely behind the lip. One very large rock struck the ledge and the back of my head simultaneously. I luckily was wearing a thick wool stocking cap and suffered nothing more than an accelerated heartbeat. Speth was unscathed.
After that experience you’d think I would have driven straight to Jackson and bought a helmet, but no. By the time I exited the Winds the rockfall experience was secondary to the jubilation of having done a first ascent and the experience was filed away for occasional “epic recounts” at parties and campfires.
I still do not own a helmet, but in my decrepit state I probably have seen the last of leading – especially alpine routes. However, thanks to this thread and Goldstone and Donini, et al, I’m ordering a BD Vapor today.
[Speaking of Ed Speth, I’m thinking about writing an anecdote about his short life – later.]
See: Never Heard of Ed Speth (RIP)?
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Alois
Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
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Sep 16, 2017 - 01:16pm PT
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I wore helmet when it was not at all cool...Ok, I feel better now.
In 1985, three of us scrambled around the base of Liberty Ridge of Rainier. All three of us had helmets. About half way up to the Thumb Rock, you could hear this high pitched sound, a whistle and Andy Fried got hit with a golf ball sized rock. Broke his MSR helmet in half. Luckily he didn't loose balance (we were not roped) nor got hurt, and we kept going.
Some years later, Miguel Carmona and I sat below the main face of Big Rock in Riverside County. We both wore helmets and were laughed at by quite a few people hanging around at the base. This was after all completely safe mini-wall with nothing loose above us. Some noob was climbing the upper flake, tried to put in #3 Friend, dropped the piece and it hit me flush on top of the helmet. Suddenly, nobody was laughing... The helmet (Edelrid Superlight) was totaled.
I still do a bit of both rock and alpine climbing, so it is better to have helmet on at all times. For me it would be easy to just leave the thing home, but then, things happen when we least expect them..
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Sep 16, 2017 - 05:06pm PT
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Good post, Alois. It's important to keep parties above in mind. Noobs, accidents, gravity doesn't care. Haven't we all dropped stuff? My personal shame: After leading the unprotected easy slab on Black Magic in the Needles (CA), I somehow let a cluster of for our five brand new 'biners slip through my fingers. Boy, did I cuss a blue streak as I watched them skitter down the granite and off into space. No one below, so no harm done--but damn! A fist-full of new 'biners? Arg. I've read so many stories of folks knocking stuff off on the Matterhorn that I don't think I'd want to do the route. I've never made it to the Alps, but the crowding must make many outings very dangerous, helmets or no.
BAd
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 16, 2017 - 06:06pm PT
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Good Don....you have too many things in that handsome head to share. Just back from two days in the Black Canyon...drove 65 miles to Montrose before I realized I still had my BD Vapor on.
Edit: Before the obvious comments come I will say that wearing my helmut for 65 miles was a function of the helmet's lt. wt. and comfort BUT, also the fact that it was on the head of an old climber with diminished brain function.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Sep 24, 2017 - 08:42am PT
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NO VISOR (its to scratched) goggles, fit but bugs get in . . .)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 24, 2017 - 08:46am PT
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Helmets are for poosies!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Sep 24, 2017 - 09:08am PT
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^^^ Apparently axes are for gumbies too
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 24, 2017 - 11:35am PT
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Helmets ARE for gumbies. Gumbies above you that can knock rocks off.
Materials degrade over time so an old helmet could be brittle.
I like new helmets. I have a Meteor III. Super light and comfortable. I forget I have it on. The helmet you wear is better than the sturdy but heavy one that sits in your gear bag. Many newer helmets are designed for side and rear impacts too like you could get in a fall.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jun 12, 2018 - 07:39am PT
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1st world problems start in the gym ^^^^No helmet, no problem?
Pull Down - not out !v v v vThe Kentucky Gumbie method of route cleaning, spreading from an infestation in the Southeastern hill states.
Soon to infect crags across the country.
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Matt Sarad
climber
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Jun 12, 2018 - 08:27am PT
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Five years ago, sans helmet, I was coasting about 30 mph on my old Stump Jumper down Black Hill Road and admiring the scenery in Morro Bay. When I looked ahead, I saw a bump and pothole right in front of me. That was the last time I was a normal human. Oh yeah, I didn’t have my helmet on because in a hurry, I forgot to put it in the truck.
Fractured skull, bruised brain, hemorrhaging, swelling brain, staples holding the skin on when I came to five days later, I guess a helmet would have probably helped.
The half dozen times I have gone climbing since, and every time I ride my recumbent trike, I wear a helmet. The one time I didn’t wear it riding, was the day my life changed forever, and not for the better.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Jun 12, 2018 - 08:54am PT
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i think i'll stick it to the man ...
by skating in a kayak helmet.
cross training 4 my cranium?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 12, 2018 - 09:02am PT
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because life encounters the unexpected
wear your helmet
Gary would want me to post this reminder!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 12, 2018 - 01:02pm PT
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I should wear a helmet more than I do...meaning all of the time.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Jun 12, 2018 - 02:13pm PT
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 12, 2018 - 04:20pm PT
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37 years ago I got a ton of flak for wearing a helmet skiing.
Nowadays I rarely see alpine skiers without.
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clifff
Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
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Jun 18, 2018 - 11:40am PT
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https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/off_belay/the_elderly_should_be_compelled_to_wear_helmets-687965
The elderly should be compelled to wear helmets
Brown - on 17:21 Mon
Having recently seen an elderly person wearing a helmet it struck me how irresponsible many old people were in not wearing helmets.
Public health England publishes figures showing that there are 255,000 falls a year by the over 65 resulting in hospital admissions. Many of these due to head injuries. This all cost the country 4.4 billion a year!
Looking at SAGA magazine its apparent that they are pushing a dangerous no helmet message with their photos showing people out there, risking it all. Maybe they should fall in line with more responsible publications in only publishing photos of people in helmets
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 18, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
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After getting smashed in the back of the head a few times, I wear a helmet now when sailing dinghies in high winds with lots of capsizing expected. All of the concussed other sailors look at me strange..
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Trump
climber
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Jun 18, 2018 - 04:08pm PT
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As a gumbie, my take on it is that if I’m gonna do all this gum work of brushing and flossing every day, I might as well protect my investment by wearing a helmet.
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