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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 19, 2017 - 02:40pm PT
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So I am sitting here just south of Salt Lake City, and I just got my P2 Paraglider rating. I've got 31 flights and just over 9 hours in the air, which is quite a bit for so few flights. The skydiving and BASE helped me in the air, but hurt me on ground handling, the hardest thing to learn.
This is a really fun sport.
Cedar Wright and Matt Segal have become obsessed with it, and their misadventures and adventures are chronicled in a short film by The North Face called "Fledglings." It is funny as sh#t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPg8pU7nguA
I'm stopping off to fly Villa Grove on the way home, and plan on hitting the Owens Valley late next Spring for an extended stay.
It really is addictive, and a lot of fun. It is by far the easiest way to fly, you can pick up quality used gear for cheap on the European market (where it is HUGE), and that makes it the cheapest way to fly.
I've had some flights that ended with sunset, or because the last ride of the day was leaving the LZ, and I had to catch it. It is cool to stay up for hours.
Salt Lake is a good place to learn. I learned from Jonathon Jeffries at Utah Paragliding, and unlike most schools, he doesn't force you to buy a completely new rig upon completion of the course. Most schools force you to buy from them. That weirded me out. Skydiving was never like that.
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L
climber
Just Livin' the Dream...
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Jul 19, 2017 - 03:06pm PT
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Awesome!!!!
I got my P2 hang gliding, but decided to give it up because I could either fly or climb--not enough time for both--and climbing was too important. And hang gliding was too dangerous if you didn't do it regularly.
Is Paragliding different as far as time commitment and safety factor?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2017 - 03:43pm PT
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From what I can tell, paragliding has a much higher passive safety margin. Meaning that if you have a collapse or something, on the A rated wings, you just release the brakes and it will clear up immediately.
Wings are rated from A to D, based on how they perform in safety checks by the Germans. It is really accurate.
You can still fly into the ground or have a midair collision, but with a little common sense, you will be aware enough to prevent that. So Paragliding is much easier to learn.
You can still get hurt, though. It is like most things. You can make it as safe or as dangerous as you feel like. Flying a D wing in massive thermals is pretty hairy, but flying a ridge in an A wing is pretty mellow. You will likely be flying on your own the first day of class.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jul 19, 2017 - 04:10pm PT
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is this the stuff Dave Turner used to post about here? his stuff looked fun but scary
I just got into downhill mountain biking and probably don't need yet another activity where breaking my neck or worse is a nontrivial likelihood
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2017 - 06:57pm PT
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There is a flyer here who is into falconry. I had never seen it in person. He was training a juvenile red tailed hawk, and it was uber cool to watch it sit in the ridge lift, only a few feet off the ground.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 19, 2017 - 09:20pm PT
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paragliding has a much higher passive safety margin
When I was in Chamonix last year an instructor took a turoid on a tandem flight.
Imagine the toroid's surprise when not long after takeoff he noticed the
instructor had gone silent. In fact, he had just plain GONE! The n00b
managed to land safely!
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2017 - 01:16pm PT
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That is a weird one. It would be hard to reach the steering toggles as a passenger. Other than that, steering is simple. Just don't land downwind or hit an object.
I've left SLC and am headed to the San Luis Valley to fly the western edge of the Sangre de Cristo range for a week or two. We've been getting afternoon thunderstorms that start around 11:00am, so they will be morning flights.
You have to get used to setting the alarm to 5:00am, and being in your harness at sunrise an hour later. At first the flow is pretty laminar, but by 7:30am the thermals are kicking in, and you can then stay up for hours.
That is pretty damned fun.
I gave this thread a stupid title. I'll start a new thread with the term "paraglider" in it. Supposedly Cedar Wright and Matt Segal do nothing but fly their asses off these days. No climbing at all. Cedar has a P4 rating, which is the top rating, and damn hard to get. By living in a van, he flies every flyable day, and racks up flights, hours, and overall experience very quickly. I've never heard of anyone getting a P4 that fast.
Did any of you watch this gut-busting short film (less than 15 minutes):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPg8pU7nguA
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jul 21, 2017 - 01:56pm PT
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Paragliding used to be big here. Not to be a downer, but two of my friends are crippled and one dead from it. Just like anything its all good until it isn't.
I can appreciate your stoke however, and would love to fly myself. Seems like the ultimate experience, along with base and wingsuits.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Jul 21, 2017 - 02:22pm PT
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Inyo SAR has had a busy week, including this (from the Inyo Sheriff's facebook page):
The last mission over the weekend was an injured male paraglider on the side of Mt. Tom near Bishop. The victim crashed into the side of the mountain while flying, sustaining serious trauma and multiple broken bones. The CHP H-40 helicopter (already on the Eastside assisting with the Mt. Whitney mission) inserted an Inyo SAR member at the base of Mt. Tom to hike in and provide medical care. However, due to the heat H-40 was unable to fly to the crash site. Late in the afternoon, a Chinook helicopter from the California Army National Guard flew from Stockton, and was able to successfully hoist the victim and the rescuer from the crash location.
Inyo SAR and the Inyo County Sheriff's Office would like to thank the CHP – Central Division Air Operations crew and the California Army National Guard for their professionalism and skill while aiding in the weekend’s missions.
The Inyo SAR team works in cooperation with and under the authority of the Inyo County Sheriff’s Department. Interested in joining SAR or donating?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 21, 2017 - 04:31pm PT
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I admit that paragliding looks fun but as a sailplane pilot I kinda like
having a structure around me - that ground is sooo hard! I also like
lying on my ass and drinking a cool drink, picking my nose, and taking pics
without worrying about things going south on me, or north. Most sailplane
deaths are due to old age - a wreck can be expensive but it is rarely fatal.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2017 - 08:44am PT
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Paragliding is like most things. You can make it as dangerous or as safe as you want to. First by your gear choice, second by site choice, and third by conditions that you are willing to fly in.
That said, it does have a lousy safety record. I've seen zillions of flyers since I started, and have never seen an accident, but they can happen. I hear of them just like you guys do. Kind of weird seeing that one on Mount Tom. PG is HUGE in the Owens Valley, and they do hundred mile flights on a regular basis. It is generally a safe place to fly, but during the summer, the thermals are too intense during the middle of the day, so everyone lands to wait them out before flying in the evening.
It isn't anywhere close to Wingsuit BASE or alpine climbing as far as most sites go.
A wings now have terrific performance. They pass a slew of induced collapses, spins, all kinds of stuff. They get an A rating if they come out of those problems just by releasing the brakes. An A wing is close to a D wing from ten years ago, by performance. You can fly an A wing and stay up all day.
That is the fun part. I have 1350 skydives, so I know what it is like to fly a canopy and land, but we never enjoyed the flight much. It was all about getting down and packing for the next jump.
This is a lot more subtle. Hearing that vario starting to beep like crazy as you watch the ground recede is a cool experience. Then it is a race through sinking air to the next thermal. It is like kayaking an invisible river.
I readily accept the risk, but I have no plans to do anything stupid or too dangerous. Different sites have different difficulty ratings. So like climbing, you usually know what you are getting into before your feet leave the ground.
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BRB
Trad climber
venice, ca
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Jul 27, 2017 - 09:00am PT
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I believe Matt Segal was the pilot who crashed on Mt. Tom
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 27, 2017 - 10:40am PT
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Base, yous guys have varios? What's next, heads-up displays in yer Google shades? :-)
Does anybody wear a regular chute for emergencies? Obviously, I know nuthin'.
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BigB
Trad climber
Red Rock
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Jul 27, 2017 - 11:20am PT
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BRB... you were correct! it was Matt Segall that crashed on MT Tom. Hes ok in a general sense of the word....broke both arms, pelvis, back, etc... but expected to be "better" in 6-8 weeks :/
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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on the cusp of being 20% of the way to being in the ballpark of half-commitment to checking this activity out
thus the bump
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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ms55401 I echo your sentiment! I have a multi-year fascination that is not explored mainly because of free time. I wouldn't pursue it as a thrill-seeker activity, but rather more of a kick-back like hanging out at a cool belay activity, with some intellectual stimulation of weather and terrain awareness.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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How much time have you spent waiting around for the right conditions?
What is the ratio of wait time vs flying time?
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Any one know what ever became of Scott Franklin ?
I'm not sure but I had heard that he had been un-lucky,
had a kite collapse due to another flyer, crashing into his rig.
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WBraun
climber
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Any one know what ever became of Scott Franklin ?
Scott Franklin from Bend Oregon?
I'd like to know too .....
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mark, are you back at work or still out sailing the skies? Geological museum?
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Longer version of the eagle video where you can see the eagle freed after the crash landing. Crazy video, must been very scary on the way down for that guy. Glad that he was nice to the bird.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Never got around to trying it. Worked for awhile with a very intelligent guy from the Seattle area that was heavily into para gliding. His tales made it sound like a lot of fun.
edit: my guess is he now finds para gliding his crack fix.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Nov 21, 2017 - 08:00am PT
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bump
and question -- what are some good international sites? I've heard that Mexico and Argentina have exceptional launching pads, curious what else might be out there beyond US borders
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Nov 21, 2017 - 10:23pm PT
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^^^^ Canazei, Italy in the Dolomites looked pretty popular (Sassolungo, Langkofel, Sella Towers group). We were climbing and camping there and people were in the sky all three days. This one person flew pretty close to us, like nodding distance (seemingly) while I was belaying and I was like "well sh#t I feel very boring right now". Very graceful. The valley floor is at least 4000ft below and I just watched (and belayed). [youtube=https://youtu.be/dCAJbbcNMNA] I now watch them from my living room off Lookout Mt in Golden and it looks soooo cool!
Question: Base104 any others who fly is it really that they contract you into buying gear at their place to train there? Planning on lessons in San Diego (My family and I are being "relocated"), and did a tandem on a recon trip.
S...
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Nov 21, 2017 - 11:07pm PT
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re: good places outside of u.s.-can... once you have a good chunk of flying and an siv course in, my advice is goto valle de bravo in mexico if you want to get consistent weather to learn cross country flying in. there are probably other places, but i'm not aware of anywhere in the western hemisphere that's as consistent, as cheap, and has the flight possibilities that valle does. that said it'll be crowded for a reason.
there's also good flying in costa rica... tons of other places of course, but those are a couple that i've flown at...
re: flight time to waiting time... they don't call it parawaiting for nothing! that said, it all depends on the site [yeah, i know: no shIt]. but seriously some sites [the aforementioned valle de bravo, some coastal sites, i've heard point of mountain in utah, but don't know that one for sure] you'll fly up towards 70-80% of the time that you want to during certain seasons. whereas a lot of sites, especially big mountain sites you'll fly closer to 25% or less unless you are very good or very crazy... point being in general paragliding is definitely a sport that you need to couple with travel...
you also have to in general treat it kind of like fishing. sometimes you go for a nice drive or hike with your wing... and sometimes you actually get to fly... :) and really when you're starting out, it's kind of like soloing: while it's tempting to pressure yourself into "overflying" your abilities as compared to conditions, because you're frustrated not being able to fly... and you might even "overfly" once... you probably won't do it again. hahaha!
re: buying wings under contract from the school you learn at... this may happen, but i can't say i'm familiar with it. that said there can be a lot of "emotional" pressure to buy from the school you learned from in at least some, possibly many, cases. or at least i know i was given a stern frowning at when i went out and bought my wing from elsewhere... also some schools offer discounts on first wings as part of the learning package.
all that said, and given i don't currently fly, this sport is one of the reasons i'm looking forward to getting old... i just don't have the time that it takes right now, and ime it does take a large commitment of time... in part because of the parawaiting aspect, but more importantly due to it being something that has significant consequences even if it is a relatively forgiving sport... and so you need to stay current with your skills, so it's harder to just pick up and drop at will, until maybe you are very, very good...
but one of my favorite memories from when i did fly was seeing an old arthritic former helicopter pilot who had flown in nam but who at that point in his life could barely walk... he probably took 3-4X as long as anyone else to get his wing set up, his lines laid out and be ready for launch... [and so why is this a favorite memory?]
because when he was finally ready, did hobble towards launch and then finally did take off...
he was just one more bird.
[however clumsy relative to our actual feathered friends any paraglider is :) ]
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GuapoVino
climber
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Nov 23, 2017 - 09:27am PT
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all that said, and given i don't currently fly, this sport is one of the reasons i'm looking forward to getting old... i just don't have the time that it takes right now, and ime it does take a large commitment of time... in part because of the parawaiting aspect, but more importantly due to it being something that has significant consequences even if it is a relatively forgiving sport... and so you need to stay current with your skills, so it's harder to just pick up and drop at will, until maybe you are very, very good...
It doesn't have to be extremely time consuming. Some sites have a small window of time when they're flyable, like a few hours in the morning or a few hours in the evening. If you live close to sites then you can hit one in the evening after work or first thing in the morning. I evny the guys that have a choice of sites within a short drive. They don't have to plan any trips to go fly. I have a few that are a few hours away so I only get to fly those on the occasional weekend. For long trips, once you learn the weather paterns at a particular area you can fly when it's flyable and then do other things the rest of the day. I try to avoid sitting around the flying sites all day long and try to show up just when it's flyable.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2017 - 03:56pm PT
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OK. I haven't posted here in months. It is freeing to not log into this forum for many months. I mean, just look at some of the people here, like Werner or DMT. They post on every single thread, usually acting like they know what they are talking about regardless of subject. Do you have any idea of exactly how much of their lives they spend on this forum? Do they have a life? I couldn't care less about this place anymore, and it has gone way downhill over the last 5 years. I swear it is an addiction, like anything can be. If you log on more than once every day, you need to get outside and away from your computer. I was spending way too much time here, and others were obviously spending most of their days here.
I've learned a lot since I last posted. I've almost reached my P3 rating. I'm going to Valles de Bravo in Mexico in December to finish out my P3.
I still haven't seen an accident. A local guy broke an ankle from a downwind landing the other day, but I didn't see it. Don't do land downwind. Everyone knows that. Nice guy though. He was on a speed wing, which had something to do with it. I'm not sure how many flights he had on those wings.
I've seen zillions of safe flights though. Collisions are the biggest hazards I've seen so far. Too many wings in the air at once, and one as#@&%e who doesn't obey the right of way rules will cause that. I can't stand those guys.
I've done 2.5 hour flights. Yeah you need a vario. Whoever that was who dissed a vario was an idiot. You can get an audio only vario for 75 bucks, and they are the size of a small watch. It helps you to stay in light or zero lift, and helps you scoot through light sink that is too light to feel.
I still fly a 3 line low-EN B wing, an Ozone Buzz. That is a super common wing, and I've been flying it since halfway through my P2 training. I'll move up to a higher aspect ratio wing next year to improve XC performance.
Risk wise, as long as you don't mountain fly, it is pretty safe. A little more dangerous than skydiving, but WAY safer than BASE. Similar to generic rock climbing if you stick to good sites. Mountain flying is its own beast, and you deal with lee rotor, massive sink, lots of things that you won't find on a normal site.
I have never come even close to getting hurt. I've stuck to well flown sites and always get a good site briefing before flying. I normally watch someone else fly it first. Like climbing, the risks of a site are known before you do it. If you don't, you are being an idiot. The popular sites are flown a lot and the risks of each site are well known. You avoid making those mistakes, and it is fine.
It is a really good sport for guys my age. Super peaceful. My son is out of the house and working, so I'm free to go have adventures again. There is nothing quite like getting into the house thermal and going up like a rocket, then staying up there until dark. My skydiving experience has helped me when in the air and when landing. Most accidents happen on launch and landing. Still, kiting is hard. I just got back from a kiting session in a flat field.
Popping your wing up before launching is by far the hardest thing to learn. It took many hours of kiting to get halfway decent at it. There are ground handling jedi's, who can play with their wings and do all kinds of stuff with it on the ground. It all comes into play in real life, so you ground handle about 3 times as much as you fly.
Here is a short video of a launch I did recently. I don't wear a go-pro, so I don't have any video. A buddy shot this with his phone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdEE-B-ABJs
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Nov 26, 2017 - 11:15pm PT
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fair point GuapoVino... that a lot of people actually have interesting/consistent flying nearby is a concept that is hard for my prairie living brain to remember... ha!
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