Opioid Epedimic!

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Messages 1 - 56 of total 56 in this topic
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 13, 2017 - 01:43pm PT
So, my personal quick history is this. I've had about 14 major surgeries in my life. 3 hernias in the last 5 years being the most recent. My principal longstanding problem is my ankle that I destroyed at 2am jumping out of a C-130 in the 82nd Airborne. I was 18, I'm 48 now. I destroyed my talus and 3 of my 5 metatarsals, my medial and lateral malleolus are still fractured. No surgery will repair that sh#t at this point. The overwhelming prognosis is that in 10 or so years they will lop off the ankle or fuse it...

NOW. My beef is this. Even though I take it a bit more easy, I'm still cranking tough, pack burro racing and making the occasional BASE jumps and NO Doctors will prescribe anything. Where are all these over-prescribing doctors I can't stop hearing about?? And by the way, life is a bitch sometimes and people have chronic pain. To be clear, I have fantastic health insurance and do have a moderate monthly supply of Percocets from my Dr.

However, I'm wondering if this is a real "epedimic" or is this some weird sh#t some less savory doctors created? Personally, I thank Grandpa and Grandma need to keep their pill jars hidden when the Grandkids are around, "wow! Billy and Jill sure do like to visit a lot"!!! No sh#t Grandma.

And I'm not buying the whole, "You'll be shooting smack in Glenwood Springs, CO as soon as you eat a Percocet" bullcrap..

Without ripping me a new ass personally. I just brought up a topic, was wondering what you guys and 3-5 gals thought?

snakefoot

climber
Nor Cal
Jul 13, 2017 - 02:05pm PT
Back in black, hit the sack... hows your new pad big boy?
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2017 - 02:12pm PT
Back in black, hit the sack... hows your new pad big boy?

Dude, we have a beautiful, over-sized for us house in New Castle. The Wife has never been happier. My number one job is to get "kneebar pads" and become a Rifle turd again.. lol

But to the last poster, I believe this epedimic is very regional, Like West Virginny, Connecticut etc etc. just a few shitty States.

Edit to ad- West Virginia is gorgeous, not trying to throw blame. Just a conversation. As well, I'm not a cop. I work for the Criminal Enforcement Division for the Dept. of Treasury. I provide high-end armed security for the Cannabis Industry in Colorado, which is still, all cash.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 13, 2017 - 02:14pm PT
I had surgery to repair a severed quad tendon a few years back and was supplied oxycodone for pain. Took them for two days, couldn't get real sleep, couldn't dream, just a surface fade out then wake up fully in a second at any noise. Got constipated and didn't sh#t for three days. It was awful; I said enough and tossed the pills as the pain was better than the consequences of the drug. So I don't understand why anyone would want to take this sh#t for 'pleasure'.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2017 - 02:16pm PT
Winemaker, same here dude. After an 10 mile training run with our burros, the Percocets do help with my f*#ked ankle and back. But really, they suck. Still not seeing the big deal..
snakefoot

climber
Nor Cal
Jul 13, 2017 - 02:22pm PT
nice! i agree about not seeing it all over. also, the pills are getting more expensive so people are moving over to heroin which is cheaper according to recent reports.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Jul 13, 2017 - 02:32pm PT
I work in some of the worst parts of Los Angeles as a firefighter paramedic and have for the past 30 years and I haven't seen real life mirror what the news portrays. What I see on occasion are heroin overdoses but OD's due to taking too many pain meds are very rare at least in the areas i have worked, South Central, East LA and more recently the Sunland Tujunga area. Alcohol is far and away a bigger issue and more abused than pain meds but you don't see a huge public outcry reigning in alcohol abuse. Same with pot, the only calls I have been on concerning pot are first timer kids freaking out. Alcohol use creates a myriad of problems, domestic abuse, DUI, long term health issues, and just plain old acting like a d#@&%ebag. Not saying pot doesn't do the same but I just haven't seen it.
Back to the opioid issue It is a real problem but I don't think it's as bad as the press makes it out to be, at least not in LA where I work.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2017 - 02:34pm PT
the pills are getting more expensive so people are moving over to heroin which is cheaper according to recent reports

And there we have it. I cannot make the leap from pills to shooting smack scored from the streets. And I don't want to be medically lumped in with those dipshits!!

I'm 48 years old, I'm not old, but boy am I on deck to be old, parts of my body are roached, but I hate this new epedimic getting in the way of me and my Doctors care. Whatever it is.

edit to add again, Thanks for your service Batrock, you do not have a glamorous job, though it sounds like it at a party maybe.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 13, 2017 - 02:44pm PT
Isa had minor surgery on her finger to deal with a splinter infection and they gave her 48 vicodens. WTF I do that sh#t to myself at least once a week (carpenter)with a razor knife and don't need any pain meds. Guy I used to work for got hooked on Oxy for back pain. annother guy I worked for went from oxy to Heroin. I had zanax perscription about 25 years ago and had withdrawal symptoms when I backed off of that. Its all pretty bad sh#t...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jul 13, 2017 - 02:53pm PT
I had a sponsee in AA who got addicted to perscription opioids back in the 90's. She had a real tough time because she "wasn't passed out on park benches, like you alcoholics, or prostituting herself like a junkie." She "hadn't lost her home" and so many other "I'm not like you all" reasons to that because her doctor prescribed all those drugs that must mean there wasn't "really" a problem.... Yet there she was.

Another sponsee had a son who had been injured at work and was now addicted to oxycodone. As a recovered junkie, it broke her heart to see that happen to her son. At least when you shoot smack, you are aware there is risk of addiction/overdose. Back in the 90's, people really didn't understand they were at the same risk with prescription drugs.

I have a nephew who ended up a herion addict because the prescription drugs were getting hard to come by, and expensive.

Yes, it is real. While I have no personal experience with pain management and thus don't know what it's like to suffer the pain, I have to say that I DO know what it's like to see people suffer from the addiction that innocent pain management morphed into.


Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 13, 2017 - 03:02pm PT
The opioid epidemic is somewhat masked, it is not necessarily dirtbags doing them. The problem is showing up in later stages as heroine overdoses, usually involving fentanyl. We just had three people OD and die together, local business owner. Friend had cancer and passed away last year. Found out later it was a long opioid addiction that killed her, had no idea she was doing it, but a doctor was prescribing for years. It is out there, not always seeing it.
Loose Rocks

Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
Jul 13, 2017 - 03:32pm PT
When I was last in the ER about 60% of the patients that were there were addicts.

One old guy was in there with his 30+ YO son who was just begging for the pain to stop. He was screaming "Oh god I'm in so much pain. You've got to do something" over and over. You could tell the old guy knew what was going down. He just sat there watching his son act out. He looked a little lost as to what he could do. He just seemed sad. You could tell the old man was just at wit's end. I kind of felt bad for him.

Heard from the curtains of a couple of other patients:
"Oh I don't remember it was perco something or rather"
"I think last time they gave me oxy something"

I felt bad for the ER nurses. They have to put up with this crap day in and day out.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 13, 2017 - 03:50pm PT
Got constipated and didn't sh#t for three days. It was awful

Don't need opioids to achieve that. Just hiking to the base of El Cap
and looking up keeps me plugged up for at least three days.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jul 13, 2017 - 04:36pm PT
I'd like to hear more about pack burro racing. Is that for reals??

Matt Sarad

climber
Jul 13, 2017 - 04:43pm PT
My wife told me that I was screaming in the ICU after a headplant on the pavement. Unbeknownst to me, they added Dilaudid to my IV bag. I woke up a few days later and knew reality was not normal.

She said every time they brought me meds I refused to take them after rambling questions about what they were for and why I had to take them. Of course I have no memory of that.

After nearly a week of not taking a dump I figured out that I had been given opioids.

The three bottles of pills I was given after my release I ran through the garbage disposal and lived with the multiple broken ribs, vertebrae, double broken collar bone and crippling headaches.

Loose Rocks

Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
Jul 13, 2017 - 04:55pm PT
After my back surgery I laying in bed and was waiting to be discharged. The nurse told me if I felt pain all I had to do was push the button for a little more relief. A couple of hours goes by and she shows back up asking why I wasn't using the button. I said "You guys are not going to let me leave unless I have a movement, correct? I plan on leaving today.".
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 13, 2017 - 05:10pm PT
My number one job is to get "kneebar pads" and become a Rifle turd again..

Pads? Egads man! Men don't use pads...
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jul 13, 2017 - 05:16pm PT
No sh!t

You see, THAT was the problem.

sounds like many of us would rather tolerate major pain than become constipated. ;)

Just exchanging one pain in the ass for another. I was really glad to get off my pain meds. If I was tacked out with level 9 or 10 pain over long periods I suppose I could see getting addicted to them. Otherwise, forgetaboutit. gimme some whiskey and a joint
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 13, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
I have tons of chronic pain. lots of worn out and broken parts. #1 reason that none of the parts get fixed is poor health care. #1 reason I would not use the pain meds if they gave them to me is that I don't want to be dependant on more pills. allready have to take prylosec every day for heart burn/acid reflux....
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 13, 2017 - 05:49pm PT
The three bottles of pills I was given after my release I ran through the garbage disposal

Not taking them was a good decision, but meds should never be put in the sewer system. They often contain compounds that do not break down and can contaminate water supplies.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2012/08/prescription-drug-disposal/
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jul 13, 2017 - 06:03pm PT
Well, yeah, no one wants to be constipated, and us tuff-guy climbers are used to pain, so who needs opiods, right?

On the other hand, when you wake up from having your leg bolted back on after a completely fracturing your hip, constipation is something to be prayed for. Because:

a) getting off the bed is almost impossible,

b) walking the ten feet to the bathroom is even worse, and,

c) even if you've overcome the pain and made it to the bathroom, you know you'd pass out if you tried to sit down on the toilet.

So I was more than happy to push the button on the morphine drip into my IV. Like every five minutes (even though it resets to two hours after a button push).

On the other side of the equation, if you don't eat, you don't sh#t, so, after two days of not eating, I cut the meds, got out of the hospital, and didn't have to worry about the toilet for a couple more days.

Used some codeine over the next few weeks, but not much, and never had any trouble with quitting.

Bottom line, other than pain relief, I don't get anything good out of opiods. Just the opposite. But I know that others do, and that just because a few of us here on ST can walk away from them, doesn't mean that most people cannot.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2017 - 06:24pm PT
I'd like to hear more about pack burro racing. Is that for reals??

http://www.packburroracing.com/


My badass Wife from our racing season last year. Pack Burro Racing is a thing, a very burly thing, makes triathalons look stupid. But totally different subject.

LOVING the responses so far, thanks y'all!!

ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jul 13, 2017 - 06:30pm PT
That's just f*#king awesome. I looked it up on the web..the races must be a blast!
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2017 - 06:53pm PT
The World Cup is 29 miles, 22 miles and 15 miles all in 3 weekends. Opiates are your FRIEND!!! lol
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 13, 2017 - 08:23pm PT
NOW. My beef is this. Even though I take it a bit more easy, I'm still cranking tough, pack burro racing and making the occasional BASE jumps and NO Doctors will prescribe anything. Where are all these over-prescribing doctors I can't stop hearing about?? And by the way, life is a bitch sometimes and people have chronic pain. To be clear, I have fantastic health insurance and do have a moderate monthly supply of Percocets from my Dr.

I can't help but note the conflicting positions in the OP:

He gets a "moderate monthly supply", and yet he is out seeking docs that will give him more.

He knowingly and deliberately engages in activities that greatly increase his pain, then wants pain medicine to tamp it down. More and more.

The correct strategy when having pain from smashing your thumb with a hammer is not to find a strong enough medicine, it is to take the hammer away.

The use of opioid narcotics is generally not shown to be particularly useful or efficacious for CHRONIC pain. It is very useful for SHORT TERM pain.

The problem is that when used regularly, the body develops a tolerance for any opioid, so over time, it works less effectively, and requires higher doses to achieve the same effect. As the dosage increases, it comes very close to the toxic threshold...and it becomes easy to overdose.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 13, 2017 - 11:21pm PT
Despite being Irish I seem to have no susceptibility to addiction of any kind. That said, I personally LOVE opioids and have never had any problems of any kind taking them or not taking them. Kinda don't really personally understand the addiction thing, the constipation thing, or the avoid them if at all possible thing. Suppose I could be an odd edge case of some sort, but I like having a stash of them around.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jul 14, 2017 - 06:52am PT
At least the Pharms are caring enough to make your addiction more tolerable.

There's several drugs on the market to make sure the addicted can keep on keeping on.

It's about as responsible as prescribing a Clamato and beer coctail for a hangover.

BTW-I'm really tired of hearing-
side effects may include rectal bleeding
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 14, 2017 - 07:36am PT
I work in some of the worst parts of Los Angeles as a firefighter paramedic and have for the past 30 years and I haven't seen real life mirror what the news portrays. What I see on occasion are heroin overdoses but OD's due to taking too many pain meds are very rare at least in the areas i have worked, South Central, East LA and more recently the Sunland Tujunga area. Alcohol is far and away a bigger issue and more abused than pain meds but you don't see a huge public outcry reigning in alcohol abuse. Same with pot, the only calls I have been on concerning pot are first timer kids freaking out. Alcohol use creates a myriad of problems, domestic abuse, DUI, long term health issues, and just plain old acting like a d#@&%ebag. Not saying pot doesn't do the same but I just haven't seen it.
Back to the opioid issue It is a real problem but I don't think it's as bad as the press makes it out to be, at least not in LA where I work.

It's making the news because the middle class are the prime users.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Jul 14, 2017 - 07:53am PT
10B4ME,
I assume you meant to say it's "not" making the news because the middle class are prime users. I know the middle and upper class are prime users but my observation in the field is that we just don't go out on that many opioid OD's or at least there hasn't been a dramatic spike in Los Angeles. Heroin OD's might be up a bit in certain areas but that seems to eb and flow. We used to go out on tons of heroin OD's and even that seems to have gone down bit. I can't remember the last time i pushed narcan on someone who OD'd on pain meds. It happens but it's not epidemic like it is back east. Maybe the easier access to pot has lessened the reliance on pain meds for some users??
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 14, 2017 - 07:54am PT
It is a real problem but I don't think it's as bad as the press makes it out to be,

Today's LA Times:
"About 30,000 American adults died last year from an overdose of opioid drugs."

There's little outcry over the same numbers of traffic deaths.
We love our drugs and cars.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 14, 2017 - 08:03am PT
Middle class are involved, but "prime" users I'm not seeing it from the things I've been reading and my own family involvement. The difference in why it's getting more attention, in my mind, is that the addicts and overdoses are almost all white people. If it were POC, country would collectively shrug it off.

"Prime" was a poor word choice on my part, but I agree with what you have said here.
Batrock, your point about marijuana is valid, I think.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 14, 2017 - 09:22am PT
There's little outcry over the same numbers of traffic deaths.

Because virtually everyone rides in or is exposed to vehicular traffic. While only a fraction of the population uses opioids. Vehicles also serve a more useful function.

Outcry is not a good metric to measure societies attention to a problem. A much more objective metric is finances. Much more money is spent to reduce the vehicular accident rate than is spent to fight opioid addiction.
c wilmot

climber
Jul 14, 2017 - 09:30am PT
Look at the bright side- there is a TON of money to be made off opiate addictions.

Plus- with all these relatively healthy young people overdosing- there has been an increase in organ donation

A win win for aging sociopaths
F

climber
away from the ground
Jul 14, 2017 - 09:47am PT
After going through the meat grinder a couple times and chewing those little white heroin pills for months I associate an opiate buzz with pain and trauma.
That sh#t is a trigger for painful memories for me. And, speaking from personal experience, morphine doesn't help much when you're vomiting and dry heaving with broken ribs and crushed vertebrae.
I could see how someone with no motivation, easy access, and no traumatic memories associated with opiates could get hooked though.
Whateves.... We all make choices.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 14, 2017 - 09:57am PT
Outcry is not a good metric to measure societies attention to a problem

Right, playing word games over useless deaths is much more meaningful.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2017 - 10:00am PT
D#@&%ebag response Ken M, you're obviously one of those dipshits that doesn't read the OP and just likes to listen to yourself blather.

I'm not out seeking more meds. Just asking what ST folks have to say about this supposed epedimic. I'm doing just great.. thanks.

Those pics sure look like Hankster and Hot Wife. Wasn't one of you kicking booze? If so, why add opioids?

Memorial day was 7 years sober for me. I have no problem with Percocets as it relates to any form of addiction for me. As I've stated, try driving a burro 29 miles at altitude on a foot/ankle that's due to be amputated or fused in the next 10yrs. And no I don't want to take it easy or slow down.

Hankster
TwistedCrank

climber
Released into general population, Idaho
Jul 14, 2017 - 01:38pm PT
Burros.

Georgetown.

Just sayin.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jul 20, 2017 - 07:31pm PT
Hitting the front page of the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/us/opioid-reddit.html
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jul 20, 2017 - 09:55pm PT
Attorney General Sessions at work. Trump throws him under the bus over old news. What's really going on?

WASHINGTON – Federal authorities announced charges Thursday against 412 physicians, nurses, pharmacists and other medical professionals, in what Attorney General Jeff Sessions called the largest health care fraud enforcement operation in U.S. history.

Sessions said the suspects accounted for more than $1.3 billion in fraudulent transactions across more than 20 states, and at least 120 people were charged for their alleged roles in overprescribing and distributing opioids, making it also the largest-ever opioid-related fraud takedown.

Of the 412 charged in the year-long operation, 56 were physicians.

"Too many trusted medical professionals...have chosen to violate their oaths and put greed ahead of their patients,'' Sessions said. "Amazingly, some have made their practices into multi-million dollar criminal enterprises.''
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 20, 2017 - 10:03pm PT
D#@&%ebag response Ken M, you're obviously one of those dipshits that doesn't read the OP and just likes to listen to yourself blather.

I'm not out seeking more meds. Just asking what ST folks have to say about this supposed epedimic. I'm doing just great.. thanks.

Either you don't understand what you are writing, or as my 12-step friends would say, you don't understand the first step.

You may think that is what you are asking, but you better go back and read your first post, which centers on YOUR difficulty in getting powerful narcotics from multiple doctors. ding, ding, ding!

You don't want people to notice and post about what you are saying, don't post personal details of narcotic usage. It was totally unneeded to ask "your question".
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jul 20, 2017 - 10:12pm PT
Washington - Acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe said the overall enforcement operation involved 29 bureau field offices around the country and more than 300 agents.

"The nation is in the midst of a crisis," McCabe said. "Opioid abuse destroys lives."

McCabe said singled out the doctors, pharmacists and nurses as having violated the personal trust of their patients and clients who depended on them for their well-being.

"These people,'' McCabe said, "inflicted a special kind of damage.''

He said investigators found opioid addicts "packed in standing room-only waiting rooms" at doctors' offices waiting for their prescription painkillers.

"Some doctors were writing more prescriptions than entire hospitals," McCabe said.

In one case, a group of six Michigan doctors allegedly operated a scheme to provide patients with unnecessary opioid prescriptions and later billed Medicare for $164 million in false claims. Some of the those prescribed painkillers, authorities said, were resold on the street to addicts.

South Florida produced the largest number of suspects – 77 – who were charged with a combined $141 million in false billings for home health care, mental health services and pharmacy fraud.

Nearly half of those false billings were submitted by the operator of a Florida addiction treatment center who recruited addicts to relocate to south Florida so the operator could bill insurance companies treatment that was never rendered. In return for their cooperation, the addicts were allegedly offered gift cards, airline travel, trips to casinos, strip club outings and drugs.

A total of 32 suspects were charged in Michigan for their alleged roles in money laundering and "drug diversion schemes'' involving about $218 million, according to federal authorities.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Jul 21, 2017 - 12:39am PT
The problem comes from the medical profession treating pain as a disease, rather than as a symptom.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 21, 2017 - 08:05am PT
I'm gonna have a double espresso to better embrace my constant pain.
You think being a curmudgeon comes easily?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 21, 2017 - 08:07am PT
The US Gov't is prosecuting those doctors because they don't want competition.

http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/drug-war-american-troops-are-protecting-afghan-opium-u-s-occupation-leads-to-all-time-high-heroin-production/

The War on Drugs is a complete farce. It's time to end it but that will never happen as the flow funds too many illegal gov't operations. This is nothing new.

Imagine if we took even 50% of the money wasted on the "War" and applied it towards education and real rehab facilities for those that want to quit.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 21, 2017 - 08:29am PT
My father, at age 87, fell off a ladder in the garage and landed on his back on the concrete. He had severe brain injury, as well as broken bones and other things and was never going to recover. We, with the help of the doctors, eased his passing with morphine.
c wilmot

climber
Jul 21, 2017 - 08:54am PT
Almost all of the heroin produced in Afghanistan goes to supply Russia and Europe. Very little makes its way to the US.

Plus heroin is yesterday's high- it's all about the fentynyl,w 18,carfentanil etc..

Easily imported from china and increasingly produced in Mexico by the same cartels who cornered the heroin trade as a result of pills becoming too expensive

our involvement in the Afghanistan opioum production has more to do with funding terrorism in places like Syria while convienently profiting off of waging chemical warfare against Russia
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jul 29, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
Canadian news is reporting the biggest fentanyl bust in the country's history, in Edmonton.

The operation was using "portable cement mixers" to combine fentanyl with "binders and buffing agents", and pressing this into pills that resembled oxycontin.

The cement mixers point to both the volume of the operation, plus how much fentanyl needs to be diluted due to its extreme potency. And the cops found even more potent carfentanil.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/crime/edmonton+police+make+largest+fentanyl+pill+bust+canadian+history/13935605/story.html
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2017 - 04:46pm PT
Either you don't understand what you are writing, or as my 12-step friends would say, you don't understand the first step.

Cheap shot, I knew you'd go there. It is the loser response to throw out at someone who's publicly and humbly admitted their shortcomings in life.

Sorry my post and your ears had different intentions and reactions, but you do see you're the only one who took it that direction? Yes, I'm an alcoholic, no, I'm not apart of the epedimic.

Was just asking a question. Sorry I didn't phrase it so you could get it.

Hankster
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2017 - 05:14pm PT
Almost all of the heroin produced in Afghanistan goes to supply Russia and Europe. Very little makes its way to the US.

Plus heroin is yesterday's high- it's all about the fentynyl,w 18,carfentanil etc..

Easily imported from china and increasingly produced in Mexico by the same cartels who cornered the heroin trade as a result of pills becoming too expensive

our involvement in the Afghanistan opioum production has more to do with funding terrorism in places like Syria while convienently profiting off of waging chemical warfare against Russia

Almost my exact point in my OP. What does any of this heroin/fentanyl/etc have to do with a legal prescription from your Doctor regarding awful injuries, military jumps, maybe a lifetime of construction and tool belts, bad decisions(yes, guilty)and whatnot?

Fairly tired of the "opioid epedimic" lumping Doctor prescribed meds for people with actual pain in with fentanyly/heroin addicts. Two FULLY different situations, probably 3-4, no clue personally. I just don't like my future health and pain being lumped in with a bunch of junkies in a legal sense.

YES, I hear the idea that "most heroin junkies start off with vicodins" crap, but I'd personally like to think there's a narrative that separate's various people instead of another war on drugs that just throws everybody into the same category..

And no Ken M, you turd, I don't actually want pain meds from anybody. My Wife and I take several International trips a year, that shit's easy to get, ANY shit's easy to get. My question was just a question.

People with chronic pain, and heroin/fentanyl junkies shouldn't be in the same 60 Minutes segment together, certainly shouldn't be lumped into the same DEA categoty together.

Is there really and epedimic?
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jul 29, 2017 - 06:56pm PT
Hey Hank,
I'm originally from small town British Columbia. I never used to hear of people OD'ing where I once lived, but in the last six months of this year there were 13 deaths, and that's with a population of just 60,000. I have an ex gf who is a nurse at the local hospital, and says they treat roughly an overdose a week. Places downtown now have naloxone kits on hand. It's all related to fentanyl, which can come in drugs that one doesn't expect. So kids taking what they think is ecstasy can end up ODing. Apparently there are a lot of people who were/are on pain medication, who keep needing higher doses. Its a huge dilemma for the health system in Canada about what to do. Its hugely expensive for one thing, even just for all the naloxone that's suddenly needed everywhere.

I wish I could tell you that there's no need to worry about your pain medication. I have a sister who died from heroin addiction, and that was before fentanyl came on the scene. I would call what's going on in my home province an "epidemic" from what I hear. The media there are not making this up, and its affecting a lot of ordinary folks from all walks of life who are speaking out.

excerpt below from
http://www.theprovince.com/health/opioids+cause+dependence+addiction+some/13337443/story.html
Just why do opioids — painkillers that run the gamut from codeine and morphine to oxycodone and the fentanyl patch — lead to dependence, or in other cases become so stubbornly addictive?

First, let's look at how they work.

When ingested, the drugs bind to opioid receptors on the surface of cells, primarily in the central and peripheral nervous system — much like keys fitting into a lock — and block the transmission of pain messages to the brain.

But opioids also work on multiple systems in the body, including the one that controls emotions, giving rise to feelings of pleasure, relaxation and often euphoria.

What's insidious about the medications is that they create physical dependence: over even a short period of time, patients build up a tolerance and need increasingly higher doses to achieve the desired effects, says Dr. David Juurlink, head of clinical pharmacology and toxicology at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto.

"Let's say I put you on opioids for a week or two and you suddenly stop them," he says. "You would feel very unwell. The symptoms vary from person to person, but they include pain — generalized pain, pain in the abdomen, pain in the legs.

"When you resume the drug, you feel better. And so you can see how a patient would construe that as evidence of effectiveness and even ongoing need for the drug, even after the pain-relieving effects have waned with time."

While short-term use of opioids can be a godsend for people with acute pain related to cancer, accidental injury or following surgery, many doctors now realize the narcotics aren't really beneficial for long-term treatment of chronic conditions such as arthritis, nerve damage or back pain.

"In fact, they cause pain," says Dr. Mark Ujjainwalla, co-founder and medical director of the opioid addiction clinic Recovery Ottawa. "So you get this hyperesthesia thing," he says. "It's actually a paradox. So the more opioids you get, the more painful everything is."

Physical dependence is pretty well a given for the hundreds of thousands of Canadians who have been prescribed an opioid, most of them for chronic pain.......
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jul 29, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
Physical dependence is pretty well a given for the hundreds of thousands of Canadians who have been prescribed an opioid, most of them for chronic pain.......

Not 100% true. I don't know whether the percentage of people who have been prescribed an opiod and wind up addicted is 95%, 75%, or 5%.

Yes, some do become addicted. But some don't. I've woken up in the recovery room after a trip to the ER more than once, and been given various opiods to help me deal with the pain. And while I have greedily taken as much as I could while the pain was there, I never felt the need to continue.

Which, I think, is pretty much in line with what Hank was saying in the OP.

That is not to dis people who do get addicted. I have no idea why I (or Hank) can leave the comfort of the morphine drip, or the jar of vicodins, and carry on as normal while others can not. Genetics? I don't know.

monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 29, 2017 - 08:10pm PT
The quote was about chronic, long term, pain, not the relatively short term pain from an event such as an accident.
WBraun

climber
Jul 29, 2017 - 08:26pm PT
When the living entity enters the material world and its associated material body it becomes the house of pain ......
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jul 29, 2017 - 11:42pm PT
Is that a Sears Honcho...?
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Jul 30, 2017 - 09:23am PT
A very effective pain killer can be made with tincture of Solanum Carolinense (horse nettle). You must know ratios and what parts are best. The entire plant is toxic if used incorrectly.
c wilmot

climber
Jul 30, 2017 - 09:34am PT
Is there really and epedimic?

Yes. It's quite obvious. has been for years
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