Discussion Topic |
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 25, 2017 - 12:24pm PT
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Hunting bear with a bow is pretty hard core. I'd suspect he was hunting for something else, and encountered the bear?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 25, 2017 - 12:44pm PT
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I was 100% for the bear.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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May 25, 2017 - 12:47pm PT
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I'm not even clear what he would have been hunting with that bow. Looked like a normal recurve, not a compound, and more of a target tip, not a broadhead. Maybe birds?
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jonnyrig
climber
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May 25, 2017 - 01:07pm PT
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So what, just the fact that he's a hunter makes him as#@&%e enough that y'all root for the bear? Enlightened are we, eh?
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 25, 2017 - 01:17pm PT
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What other info do you need?
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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May 25, 2017 - 01:20pm PT
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Go git 'im!!
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jonnyrig
climber
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May 25, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
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Well, I'm just sort of wondering how deep your personal hypocrisy runs. That would be helpful additional information.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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May 25, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
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He's a First Nations hunter. It's not clear exactly what he was hunting on this outing, but if you look at his Youtube channel, he does hunt bear with a bow sometimes, for food.
He writes, "I sat in my tree stand for an hour and was given a chance to harvest this nice young bear.
peperettes and summer sausage, burger for my fam jam."
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl7goxaw9ftnddOAKe-DI-w
VVV - ok, let me rephrase that - traditional hunter. His ancestors lived on the land, before most of ours arrived on this continent.
I'm not defending him. Am merely pointing out what is possibly part of his perspective, having lived in rural Canada, and witnessed some of the tragedies of displacement of First Nations culture and traditions.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 25, 2017 - 01:32pm PT
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Hunting for food is a most ridiculous excuse as there are far better sources for that. He's out there for sport, and documenting it with his GoPro for his buds.
It'll be fair when a bear can enter a grocery store and eat shoppers.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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May 25, 2017 - 01:57pm PT
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+2 style points for hunting with a bow.
-5 for rocking a Go-Bro.
-2 for not taking the shot.
I chased a sow and 2 cubs out of my yard at 5:00 am this morning with a hand full of rocks in my flip flops. No Facebrat documentation though so it didn't happen.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 25, 2017 - 01:59pm PT
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That's funny, Tami. He'll probably spend more calories hunting for his 'food' then he'll actually get. All he has to do is pile in a few bags of rice into his pickup when he goes into town for gas and he's good to go.
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little Z
Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
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May 25, 2017 - 02:08pm PT
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just to be clear, he's not a hunter, he's a harvester
EDIT: yes Studly, that's my point, he talks about "harvesting", as if that somehow changes the obvious
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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May 25, 2017 - 02:36pm PT
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Just to be clear, he's trying to kill, making him not a harvester, but a hunter.
As you sow, thus shall you reap. He got off lucky.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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May 25, 2017 - 02:51pm PT
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Score one for the bears. I wish all hunters had the balls of this man and didn't use elephant guns to slaughter these magnificent creatures.
I'd be happy to read about far more 'bear mauls hunter' stories ;)
+1
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 25, 2017 - 03:05pm PT
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Well, I'm just sort of wondering how deep your personal hypocrisy runs.
Well, all of you that aren't vegetarians have some hypocrisy imo. Flesh-food is completely unnecessary and is a VAST waste of water and arable land, yet you're all for the relentless slaughter of untold millions of cows and other creatures just because you like their flavor.
You apparently think something like, "Cows, good; bears, bad." Flagrant speciesism.
And the practice of eating cattle also greatly contributes to the mowing down of rain forests, which in turn greatly contributes to global warming.
So, how much cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy are YOU good for?
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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May 25, 2017 - 03:37pm PT
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Obviously everyone is good with a LOT of hypocrisy! I was rooting for the hunter. I have no problem with anyone out there with a bow trying to provide some food for themselves and their families. I'd kill and eat the wild critters in my suburban back yard but squirrel, skunk, coon and possum don't taste very good! So I go to the market to buy my proteins like everyone else on this forum.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 25, 2017 - 04:02pm PT
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enjoy your Big Mac Monolith.
I don't eat any animal products, Hocking, but thanks anyway.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 25, 2017 - 04:07pm PT
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Evolve and Mad Rock make some awesome shoes with no animal products as well.
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c wilmot
climber
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May 25, 2017 - 04:09pm PT
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Every oil based synthetic product manufactured has resulted in dead animals. Just because it's not an animal product doesn't mean it's ethical...
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grover
climber
Castlegar BC
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May 25, 2017 - 04:17pm PT
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It's ok to eat fish
Cuz they don't have any feelings
Kurt Cobain
Ya'll sound like 7th level vegans to me.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 25, 2017 - 04:18pm PT
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I can't wait for the bug hitting the windshield argument.
And no, not all rubber or synthetic products require animal products to make.
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grover
climber
Castlegar BC
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May 25, 2017 - 04:20pm PT
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I can't wait till this turns into a sleeping bag thread.
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John M
climber
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May 25, 2017 - 04:28pm PT
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I'm from california. I I eat meat. I don't have a problem with people hunting for food. For trophies.. yes. Food, no problem. I do understand what Werner says about there being a higher way to be, i.e. not eating animals, but I'm not ready for that. so I eat meat. I prefer as humane way of killing as possible, though I understand that killing is in effect not humane. I hate the way that some animals are raised on farms, with no freedom. We can definitely do better in that area, though the end product is still death. At least give them a decent life.
I'm glad the guy wasn't hurt. The go pro is kind of weird, but then we wouldn't have the video of the attack. I have been charged 3 times by bears. And once walked over while sleeping outside.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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May 25, 2017 - 07:41pm PT
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Better quality video, a bit longer and an unedited soundtrack... as Tami notes, you can hear "Tabernac" :-)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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May 25, 2017 - 08:09pm PT
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Jim, so many deer on Haida Gwaii and there are no predators. They were introduced by settlers and now there are a couple hundred thousand. Thus no hunting limit.
Hard to NOT hit them with a car at night....
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jonnyrig
climber
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May 25, 2017 - 09:30pm PT
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We've already upset the balance of nature. Best we can hope for is to effectively manage our part in it toward what currently would be considered sustainable. Vegetables as a source of food are generally more sustainable than meat, if you buy into the science. For that matter, on a worldwide basis I've seen it said that we currently produce a surplus of food overall. Only reason people are starving is that we waste it and lack the distributive infrastructure to disburse it.
Meanwhile you got the jihadis over there and the religious right over here and the 3rd world poverty down thataway and none of them really buy into the science of it all whether by birth or necessity, so I'm going to just continue having a slab of bacon with my self - procured elk burger while I'm trolling the taco for a raw nerve our two and swilling warm pbr from a can.
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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May 25, 2017 - 10:41pm PT
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seriously?
must be a lot of vegans on this thread.
or i guess as long as we don't see the factory birthing, raising and slaughter t'is all good eh?
while i'd agree with some of you folks if this guy was out there hunting elephants with his hand bazooka, he's out there with a bow, that in no way, shape, or form is he hunting for bear with.
or were some of you folks rooting for the bear when the two visiting brit ice climbers likely stumbled near to its den and the bear attacked/defended against the intruders in banff national park a couple years back, as well?
it's ok... let the hate flow through you...
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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May 26, 2017 - 12:03am PT
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Eating chickens that spend their whole lives in tiny little cages, pigs that can't stand up, etc., etc., is what seems like a moral problem to me. Killing an animal for food, when done legally and in an environmentally respectful way, is no moral problem for me. Our species has been doing that forever. I've never hunted, but I have fished, with no qualms. This guy looks to be an ordinary hunter in an area where hunting for food is a very normal thing.
The case of the S. African safari hunter who got squashed by an elephant, or bullfighters who get gored, is the other side of the coin. That stuff is just stupid and cruel, and a little thinning of our herd to discourage it seems only fair, and perhaps to celebrate in a discreet way,
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MassiveD
Trad climber
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May 26, 2017 - 12:39am PT
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It's like nominating Bachar for the Darwin award. That is what most normal people think he deserves. Same thing in "dangerous game" hunting, some guy gets stomped. When I was a kid in the 60s, a neighbour's son got stomped to death by an A. Elephant. He was just over there as a student. The dangerous game hunters (though most these days are just guys with money) are there because they want to be where animals kill people. But really it goes back to at time when the guns didn't work that well; and hurt so bad you got detached retinas firing the damn things; and a time when you could bump into a lion on the way to a bar.
Spring bear season is open in northern ontario now. That is a pretty fancy 3 piece recurve; fancy leather-look bow quiver, nice arrow. The no broadhead arrow thing is weird. Like maybe he was hoping to blunt the bear, sorta the pepper spray approach with a bow. But instead of that he hits it. Seems like the bear didn't expect to take the hit, and got outta there. No ER for a bear if he bites off a little too much fight. Don't sure how that constitutes the hunter having his Azz handed to him. Those guys in north ontario are tough. Last year some guy in a park with basic boxing skills duked it out with a bear. I'm guessing the bear here was hoping for something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzwbOZKfrUQ
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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May 26, 2017 - 07:53am PT
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doubt he was actually hunting. No razor tips and using a kids recurve.
A couple points:
1) It isn't a "kids recurve". A recurve is just as effective as a modern compound bow for hunting. Takes a bit more skill, primarily due to not having the full draw weight removed at full draw, but a 65# recurve is plenty for big game.
2) They are called broadheads, not razor tips. He had them.
Screen shot from video:
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 26, 2017 - 07:58am PT
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May 26, 2017 - 04:21am PT
doubt he was actually hunting. No razor tips and using a kids recurve.
LOL, some intardnet wanker telling a First Nation person about hunting. Priceless!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 26, 2017 - 08:24am PT
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When I'm in the backcountry I have a real appreciation of bear and mountain lion hunters. It's nice to be on top of the food chain.
Yes, that's shamefully selfish.
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F
climber
away from the ground
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May 26, 2017 - 09:20am PT
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^^^^
Reilly's superior knowledge in all subjects trumps your 35 years experience everytime.
You might even be able to get a discount from the company that makes that bow if you drop Reilly's name. Just sayin.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 26, 2017 - 09:42am PT
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Kids, kids, calm down. We're all winners here, all special in our own right, and all entitled to our correctness on all subjects. So, let's play nice and acknowledge the innate specialness of all parties around this cluster-coitus of a campfire.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 26, 2017 - 09:44am PT
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First nation hunter out there celibrateing his cultural heritage with a recurve putting food on the table. Most likely not bear hunting as it is spring. He had the courage to try to scare the bear away instead of shooting it. Nothing but respect. Kudos to the bear for counting coup on his nemisis. Perhaps they meet again in the fall. I will be rooting for the bear to escape unharmed in the fall but will understand if it goes the other way.
Fat stupid american trophy hunter with 3k compound bow and 2k worth of clothes and gizmos from buckmaster and real tree would have shot the bear.. Got zero use for trophy hunters. Hope the bears eat all of them.
I get the veg head scene and eat veg head more often than not but also have no use for as#@&%e veg heads that diss first nation peoples for being Omnivors.....
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 26, 2017 - 10:01am PT
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The very few people (relatively speaking) that regularly hunt/fish for food are not in the same situation as the majority who could/should be vegetarians but prefer to support the factory production of those little Styrofoam, shrink-wrapped packages of meat.
If the arable land that is presently devoted to producing feed-lot grains was instead devoted to producing food directly eaten by human beings, the cost savings, water savings, CO2 savings, etc. (not to mention health benefits) would be off the charts.
There should be a meat-tax, like a carbon-tax, to offset the baleful effects of meat production and consumption. It would work the same way as proposed carbon-taxes, and it would be exactly as effective.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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May 26, 2017 - 10:11am PT
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Forget the tax, just end the subsidies.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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May 26, 2017 - 10:17am PT
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Forget the tax, just end the subsidies.
That's a worthy start! But if that approach wouldn't be sufficient for CO2, it wouldn't be in this context either.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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May 26, 2017 - 11:32am PT
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I grew up hunting. I had a single shot 20 gauge for quail and duck at 13, and I damn sure knew how to use it and be safe. I used to be big into deer hunting, with bow, muzzle loader, and rifle. I've killed deer with all three.
As for bears, I walked up on a grizzly laying on a fresh caribou kill. He came after me like a race horse. No tree to climb within 30 miles. I just stood there with my 12 gauge beaded in on his chest. They often bluff charge, so I didn't shoot. He pulled up about 15-20 yards from me and circled me, until he was downwind and smelled me.
Right when he smelled me, he let out a big snort and walked up the narrow valley hillside for about 150 yards and sat down. That puzzled me, because they normally run like hell when they encounter a person.
Bear lived. I lived. I was super surprised to walk over to where he had been laying down and saw that caribou kill, and realized that it wasn't a bluff charge.
I've had quite a few grizzly run-ins. There aren't any black bears that far north. I was close to the divide on the south side of the Brooks Range in Alaska, alone. I've had them walk through my camp and wake me. They normally don't want anything to do with people. In northern Alaska, anyway.
A few years later, about 60 miles north of where I had that encounter, two people were killed and partially eaten by a grizzly. I know the eskimo guy who found the camp. They had a lever action rifle in their tent but didn't get a shot off. It is hard to aim a long gun while in a tent. I used a tiny one man bivy tent, and couldn't aim at all.
I still slept well. Most of that was in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, but I've run into bears down in Western Alaska and the Western Brooks Range along the Noatak river as well. I've seen way more grizzlies than black bears, oddly enough.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
but to scared to climb them anymore
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May 26, 2017 - 12:38pm PT
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Had a problem with deer in my crops. Called the game warden, he said just shoot them. I donated the meat to poor neighbors that could use it more than me. Is that wrong?
Hell, just trying to grow produce so you guys can get it at the store!
Qball
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 26, 2017 - 12:44pm PT
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my dad was a farmer and an episcopal minister. God help you if you messed with the lords corn or cabbage! he routinely killed ground hogs, racoons and any birds that were hitting the seed corn....
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MassiveD
Trad climber
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May 26, 2017 - 02:17pm PT
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1) He may well be celebrating his heritage in his own way, but the gear he is using is classic "Traditional" gear (90 era and forward) which is sorta to archery, and even non-compound archery, what the clean climbing/free climbing revolution in the 70 was to climbing. As some people thought too much aid, pitons, and bolts were being used, and went back to the roots of the sport but did it with new gear that came out of the new ideas. Swami belts hexes, ebs. (ie, primitive climbing, if there was such a thing would be say hobnails, socks and hemp ropes, as in the documentary on lakeland climbing. Primative archery is all plant or sinew bows, etc...)
2) Shooting animals with guns is like riding an escalator, it is not challenge based it is the need to get to the top, or actually harvest meat. Archery has many advantages that have nothing to do with sport, but rifles, or variants like airbows, xbows, may take most of the challenge out of it, but that also presents the opportunity of less wounding. Bow hunters wound a lot of game. It can be done without wounding game, but the reality is otherwise.
3) Hunters fall primarily into 4 categories, though doubtless one could fabricate many others: Dominators, harvesters, challenge motivated, and nature freaks: 30%,30%, 30%, 10%. That is old research, but if nothing else it shows it isn't all one thing. Archers can be any of these, as can hunters in general, but typically the guys who created trad archery were challenge oriented. It's like climbing where you have peak baggers, technical guys, people who love being out in nature, and so forth. At one time it was considered odd that people would climb a face with no motivation to reach the summit. I know a girl who does cheerleading comps, she has never cheered for a team. Stuff just gets odder as time goes by. Most sport hunters are not motivated by food, but the law almost everywhere requires you to use the meat. That goes for elephants in Africa. Trophy hunting changes nothing in that regard.
4) Allsports have their dark sides. Rock climbing sure isn't much of steward of the rock any more. It is more like dirt biking, at least from the perspective of the Chouinard catalog of 1972.
5) While I always figured climbing as the most demanding sport ever conceived, the biggest challenge, but hunting does have one factor over it. Most hunters are not successful. Harvest rates are often as low as ten percent. Imagine trying your whole year to climb one route and never succeeding year after year. Maybe the Dawn wall, but most average climber succeed on nearly all their routes unless they just prefer not to choose ones they can do. The best hunters get almost all the game; some hunters accept the experience as it is; others carry primitive equipment knowing they aren't getting anything (like wearing a swami belt in camp 4 but never going climbing).
6) The guy from the States who speared a bear on the ground was internationally excoriated, for the usual reasons.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 26, 2017 - 05:49pm PT
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As a kid I hunted deer with my stepdad in New York State. Strictly archery. He was a tournament archer, regularly "twenty'd" field archery courses if you're familiar with that sport. I was okay, but never went for a shot. I left that to Stepdad, if he took a shot the animal died fast. So my job was to hike around the long way and drive the deer in his general direction.
We used a rifle to nail ground hogs that ate the garden. Our garden was about a half acre of everything from lettuce to currants to squash to corn. The darned groundhogs could eat their way through a whole row of lettuce in a few minutes. The Winchester 30-30 was a bit much for a groundhog but what the hell.
I lost a girlfriend one time with that damned gun. It was early morning, we were sleeping together upstairs. I got up to look around, and there was one of those infernal creatures chowing down in the garden. The rifle hung on the upstairs hallway wall. I took it, opened the window over the porch roof, took aim and KABLAM!!!. I should have considered the fact that she was sound asleep.
FWIW we used broad-heads, but called them razor tips when they had a slot into which you would insert a razor sharp blade crosswise.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 01:22pm PT
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Good post tradmanclimbs. Dead on I'd say. The further north you go it's generally harder to be vegan.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 02:38pm PT
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I had a construction job one summer in Humboldt County,
boss used to go bear hunting with a bow.
I saw pics of a large black bear (not grizzly- California!) he killed.
Definitely folks out there that do it.
Edit: Base104, pretty hard core grizzly encounters. I suspect it would take some gumption to keep from blowing your wad when grizzly is charging in your direction. But maybe better to wait until he is close enough to ensure you won't miss?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 31, 2017 - 05:34pm PT
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The very few people (relatively speaking) that regularly hunt/fish for food are not in the same situation as the majority who could/should be vegetarians but prefer to support the factory production of those little Styrofoam, shrink-wrapped packages of meat.
If the arable land that is presently devoted to producing feed-lot grains was instead devoted to producing food directly eaten by human beings, the cost savings, water savings, CO2 savings, etc. (not to mention health benefits) would be off the charts.
There should be a meat-tax, like a carbon-tax, to offset the baleful effects of meat production and consumption. It would work the same way as proposed carbon-taxes, and it would be exactly as effective. My god madbolter, if more of your posts would be of this ilk..I agree with you 100%.
While I don't see the merit of what most hunters down in this neck of the woods do (fat, camo draped, driving around in their little Polaris so they don't have to walk a 1/4 mile and can swill their Bud at the same time, shooting near well established trailheads--no joke; I see this routinely near the Needles in the fall), I see a big distinction between that group and native hunters or those who live in remote areas who need to hunt for their substanance.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 31, 2017 - 06:01pm PT
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okner, when you gots some human skulls up on yer wall we'll talk, m'kay. ;-)
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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I remember the time MooseDrool was out filming mushrooms...it was a bloodbath.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2017 - 10:48am PT
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Moose, if you didn't GoPro your adventure and post it up on Instagram then it never happened.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Well, all of you that aren't vegetarians have some hypocrisy imo. Flesh-food is completely unnecessary and is a VAST waste of water and arable land, yet you're all for the relentless slaughter of untold millions of cows and other creatures just because you like their flavor.
And the practice of eating cattle also greatly contributes to the mowing down of rain forests, which in turn greatly contributes to global warming.
If you actually believe this, Mad, we're of a mind. The cow industry is insane. Just the part where they are allowed to graze in wilderness (Golden Trout), is insane. You can see where they have converted the verdant meadowlands of Monache Meadow (largest meadow in the Sierra) into scrub brush, by the voracious eating, and actions of their hooves.
I think we are on the verge of a breakthrough on meat subs:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/06/21/482322571/silicon-valley-s-bloody-plant-burger-smells-tastes-and-sizzles-like-meat
Won't sub for a steak, but will for hamburger.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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One thing that surprises me, is the line that is drawn between "first Nation" people and hunting.
It makes you wonder if people think that whites just always shopped at Ralphs?
What was Daniel Boone doing for food?
I think it is time that we understood our common ancestry. When we do, I'm not sure I understand why hunting by "Dances with Wolves" is more sacred than by Jim Bridger?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I think it is time that we understood our common ancestry. When we do, I'm not sure I understand why hunting by "Dances with Wolves" is more sacred than by Jim Bridger? It's not, but there aren't any Jim Bridgers out there anymore. Now it's mostly (but not all) rednecks.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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If you actually believe this, Mad, we're of a mind. The cow industry is insane.
I do, and we are. I've been a vegetarian for almost 50 years, and I haven't missed meat at all.
The entire meat industry (not just cows) is insane, and it's become a complete rip-off for the individual farmers/ranchers as well, as big agri-corps have entirely taken over everything from the chicken supply to the feed-grains to the antibiotics to the distribution channels... well, it goes on and on.
And the industrialization of meat has literally mowed down the rain forests at an absolutely astounding rate! We spend unconscionable amounts of water, energy, arable land, and the list goes on and on... all at a rate far, far beyond what it costs to just directly grow human food rather than pass the calories through a cow first (and then net two orders of magnitude less calories and nutrition!).
And to accomplish waste on this grand of a scale, we are necessarily committed to subsidizing this industry and its "support" industries, including, as you mentioned, the abuse of public lands.
There is no net gain to eating meat. It's a convenience food that to most people tastes good. That's its "upside." Its downsides (particularly on the industrial scale) are horrible beyond description. At the very least, we should cut every government subsidy even indirectly related to meat production.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I fully support this.
The over-reliance on meat has also been a major contributor to the progressive accumulation of health problems: obesity, diabetes, heart disease...probably some cancers.
And it doesn't require the elimination of meat. A very achievable 50% reduction would have vast ramifications for environment and health outcomes, country-wide.
Within the next week or two, I'm going to take the opportunity to partake of an "Impossible Burger", which is available here in LA. Reviews say that it can't be distinguished from hamburger. We'll see. I'll post a review.
Apparently they are scaling up right now, and they project that it will cost less than beef. That would be a game-changer.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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It's not, but there aren't any Jim Bridgers out there anymore. Now it's mostly (but not all) rednecks.
You think Bridger wasn't a redneck?
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| Messages 1 - 57 of total 57 in this topic |
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