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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 22, 2017 - 11:36am PT
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I like to think of myself as fair and open-minded, but my wife likes to poke fun at ways in which I am still a caveman.
I am taking my annual compliance training for work... have run across some scenarios that are definitely expanding my awareness. I was coping with the expansion, but my mind was just blown a little bit by "Xe" and "Xem". I have never heard of this. Apparently these are the pronouns that some people prefer when they want to be gender neutral and not identify with male or female? I guess it solves a logical hole in our language because "they" and "them" are plural and somewhat awkward neutral constructs. So I applaud the logical precision but I'm curious how much I've been living in the dark ages.
Who else around here has heard of "xe" and "xem"?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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May 22, 2017 - 11:56am PT
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Just call everybody "dude" and be done with it.
BTW - how do you pronounce "Xe" and "Xem" just in case the need arises?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 22, 2017 - 11:57am PT
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Sounds like a speech defect.
What's wrong with 'it', 'that', and 'hey, you'?
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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May 22, 2017 - 11:57am PT
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I'd never heard of this before now.
Not going to use xem until xe become valid Scrabble words.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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May 22, 2017 - 12:00pm PT
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There's plenty of overlap between Liberace and Rosie The Riveter for he & she to cover it all. Like it always did.
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Burnin' Oil
Trad climber
CA
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May 22, 2017 - 12:00pm PT
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More stupid sh#t.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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May 22, 2017 - 12:03pm PT
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There are people that follow US Politics, whose only agenda, is to make money. They have no ideological axe to grind. Those people, believe the major reason the Democrats lost last year, was the overpowering attention paid to transgender bathrooms. It made them seem elitist and out of touch.
So go ahead. Make a big deal out of this. Watch Trump take a second term with a 36% approval rating.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 22, 2017 - 12:10pm PT
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Tad, time for a bumper sticker:
"Don't come a-knockin' when this van's a-rockin',
you ain't gettin' in!"
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2017 - 01:07pm PT
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My van should be ready for pickup within the month. But getting the bench/bed in the back is going to be an odyssey it seems... so far my worst customer service experience in my life, but I have found exactly one vendor in the world that provides what I want and I have to suck it up until I'm ready to abandon that option.
As for this "xe" and "xem" stuff... if it is for real and serious and gaining traction (which my compliance training would seem to make it be the case), our whole society should shift to those being the default to use, because anything else would be making assumptions about what a person prefers. You can't just a book by its cover - 21st century addition.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2017 - 01:18pm PT
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Well, if nothing else, consider this a community service announcement so you know what people mean when you hear it- it's not just a funny foreign accent. Unless it is.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 22, 2017 - 01:32pm PT
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Some people like to be more specialer than other people.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 22, 2017 - 01:41pm PT
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thanks for the language update.
I have gotten used to gender neutral pronouns so this is the next step.
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Burnin' Oil
Trad climber
CA
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May 22, 2017 - 01:43pm PT
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If you refer to me as xe or xem you are making a big assumption about what I prefer and if personal preferences matter, don't screw it up.
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c wilmot
climber
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May 22, 2017 - 01:50pm PT
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I prefer to be referred to as "m'lord"
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perswig
climber
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May 22, 2017 - 02:04pm PT
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Not going to use xem until xe become valid Scrabble words.
This was well done, Wyo.
And I've always admired DMT for using the distaff default, years now.
Dale
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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May 22, 2017 - 02:42pm PT
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The three year old next door just reminded me that the issue of indeterminate gender was handled by Dr. Suess with Thing 1 and Thing 2 -
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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May 22, 2017 - 02:48pm PT
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What will they think of next?
I'm for him and her. Sorry, grouchy old man here.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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May 22, 2017 - 04:49pm PT
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WTF? It doesn't matter....lets just see what they call Xem in the Forum!
Sh#t, LA has a team they call the "Angels" when "Dodgers" is way more understandable😏
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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May 23, 2017 - 12:22am PT
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once upon a time and place... if your father was a cobbler and you were his son: you became a cobbler.
once upon a time and place... if your mother was a brahmin: you would only marry another brahmin.
once upon a time and place... if you were identified/assigned/perceived male at birth: you would be thrown in jail if you tried to have a relationship with another person who was i/a/p to be male at birth.
once upon a time and place... if your skin was white: your marrying someone who was non-white would result, if not in outright persecution, than in at least ostracization by the majority.
and etc.
and when all of these systems were first threatened, most of the people who had grown old under those systems said some variation of: "what's the big deal? it worked fine for me".
ie. don't worry.
while new systems of understanding are still in flux, there is no question, that the ole system of a doctor identifying/assigning/perceiving a person at birth as either only male or female [and then cutting up most of the few who didn't fit] being followed up by a "society" taking that authority constructed certificate and deeming that those who were i/a/p male would necessarily become the societally constructed "man" and those who were i/a/p female would necessarily become the societally constructed "woman"...
is falling the way of every other caste system that preceded it.
what will take its place, no one knows exactly... yet.
but as communication of identity between sentient beings is always a negotiation between the identified and the identifier, an appreciative thanks is extended to those who at least try to understand where those who prefer non-traditional identifiers are coming from... even if in the end, they choose to outright reject the new [and at the same time sometimes old] constructs...
this is appreciated because many have found the current system to be, if not an outright negation and act of violence towards their existence, than at least an unnecessary encumbrance.
and so while it is easy for the satisfied and therefore privileged majority to dismiss the other as a snowflake, as an annoying millenial and/or etc [and sometimes they are even right] that doesn't sometimes make it any less life and often literal death for a kid who truly doesn't fit within the binary male-necessarily-equals-man-and-female-necessarily-equals-woman construct that is currently generally in force.
finally and equally as important these changes should not be perceived as a threat to the modes of existence of those who are satisfied with the existing constructs... rather they are only additional potentials to the traditional [at least in this time and place] ones...
and as a side note, if the whole multitudinous pronoun deal is scary/confusing/annoying... feel free not to use it.
easiest and still respectful option is to just use a person's name and skip pronouns all together. or if feeling adventurous get used to the singular they/them/their. it sounds odd at first, but it's not nearly as contextually confusing as people think it is. if we can figure out whether "you" refers to one or many, we can figure out if "they" refers to one or many as well...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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May 23, 2017 - 03:52am PT
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What would Hank have done?
I presume he would have written a song.
[Click to View YouTube Video]In all fairness, Hank's tellin' hir not to leave, yet such behavior for xim, that's perfectly acceptable.
I am so confused, myself.
Good luck, watch yer Ps and Qs, and dot yer eyes.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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May 23, 2017 - 08:03am PT
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that's Xucked up.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 23, 2017 - 11:52am PT
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Wow!! You've hacked the bad words filter!
xhit
xuck
xiss
xunt
xockxucker
xutherxucker
xits
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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May 23, 2017 - 01:28pm PT
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Right? Like this is the thing that's gonna finally bust our brains.
Take a look around. This isn't the thing that's doing it.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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May 23, 2017 - 01:46pm PT
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Xer
Gunna die
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 23, 2017 - 04:18pm PT
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Batrock wins!
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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May 23, 2017 - 10:54pm PT
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That frames the issue nicely, nah000, thanks!
"m'lord" Hah, hah!
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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May 24, 2017 - 05:27am PT
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Must be all those estrogen mimicking chemicals . . .
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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May 24, 2017 - 06:28am PT
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This is fascinating--and perhaps doomed to fail? Ms. for Mrs. or Miss is one thing, but it least it has the advantage of growing out of the same base idea--with the added benefit of many hundreds of millions of women who might like the reference. The xe/xem thing is only for a vanishingly small percentage of the population, so right or wrong, making that shift will be like turning the Queen Mary (pun intended) with a kayak. I've worked with and had students who fall into the trans/indeterminate gender group, and it's sometimes damn hard to keep the pronouns straight. I KNEW that Julia wanted to be called Sam. I practiced it. Most of the time I got it right. But back in my deep reptilian brain, when I saw hir face, the features were distinctly FEMALE, and I would accidentally let a she/her slip. For all the supposed fluidity of gender, the vast majority fall into one or the other of the two big teams, and that will continue to set the course for language, methinks.
BAd
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 24, 2017 - 06:56am PT
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Nope- not in the Scrabble dictionary. It doesns't exist.:)
It is interesting to explore though. Coincidentally I just finished re-reading LeGuins "Left Hand of Darkness" The characters are androgynous . She reverts to "he" in the original version and in later years republishes some short story versions where she (LeGuin) tries to address the issue of how to use our pronouns in the absence of a specific sex . Within the context of our culture and language (and "reptilian brain"^), it's not really feasible IMO.
Many feminists have been grieved by "Left Hand of Darkness" because the androgynes are called "he" throughout ...it's a trap with no way out, because the exclusion of the feminine (she) and the nueter (it)... makes the use of either of them more specific,...than the use of "he". And I find the made-up pronouns "te" and "heshe" dreary and annoying.
(I'm guessing she would add "xe" to her list).
In reviving the story... I saw a chance to redress that injustice slightly. In this version I use the feminine pronouns for all Genthenians- while preserving certain masculine titles such as King and Lord, just to remind on of the ambiguity. This may drive some non-feminists crazy, but that's only fair."
U.K. LeGuin
I've known a number of transgenders in my life. I generally just make a conscientious effort to just refer to them by whatever they prefer regardless of appearance. It's a struggle, nonetheless, when "she" has a beard :)
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