Devils Tower Voluntary June Closure: What are your thoughts?

You'd think there would be more conflict or protest.

In response, through the Climbing Management Plan, the NPS is protecting cultural resources, not closing Devils Tower for religious purposes.

Weather or not Devils Tower was historically a religious pilgrimage site it is considered sacred by more than one tribe and ceremonies take place at the tower throughout the year, weather you see them or not.

Native Americans are very private about their ceremonies and they are usually not visible to the general public.

Ken it is voluntary. Should crags all over this country be closed to respect a certain culture. I bet every crag in this country was sacred to someone in the past why would this only happen in WY?


May 12, 2017 - 06:39pm PT
Ken, you would support a 100% ban?? Devil's Tower is one of America's premier climbing destinations. Your proposal is a bit reckless.

Climb there a lot do you, Ken?

Ken, if you are against people climbing think about the flip side.

I'm grateful that the NPS and Indian Nations allowed this to happen, and kept their side of the bargain over the decades.

This is so laughable coming from Ken M. His lack of knowledge and bigoted nature towards Native Americans is well known. Ken, you told us all last week you didn't recognize American Indian tribes as sovereign nations, even though many of them legally are and have been, not for decades but going on nearly two centuries.

And what bargain do ye speak of? Tell us. Do you even know anything of Devil's Tower?

Arne

As Trump’s interior secretary enters the fight over Utah’s Bears Ears, natives feel unheard

The fate of the national monument has pitted Native Americans from across three states, who want to preserve artifacts and sacred lands, against white residents and cleaved a rural Utah community. Although Ryan Zinke said he tried to hear all sides, conservationists wonder whether the administration has already betrayed its intent.

Ken, when you're in a hole, first step is to stop digging, bro.

Ken. there is a very good chance that where ever you live used to be owned by first nation peoples. since you are such a good person I think you should give your house and land back to them...

Climb there a lot do you, Ken?

Jaybro, the original question asked for input. If that's your attitude, stop posting opinions on anything outside of Wyo.

The AGREEMENT was voluntary. The action agreed to in the agreement, was to not climb.

Climbers stated, voluntarily, that "I will not climb in the month of June"

Climbers stated, voluntarily, that "I will not climb in the month of June"

It's one month, people.

The Native American cultural and spiritual world revolves around the lunar calendar, not the Roman calendar or American school calendar.

The closure happens in June because our modern world follows the Roman calendar. It would be difficult to manage a closure that follows a lunar calendar or ceremonies that may take place at different times each year.

Last February, in the midst of this legal battle, Dr. Irons visited the local parks department to see if the Mount Soledad Memorial
Association had acquired a permit to use the park this Easter. To his
surprise, he discovered that no permit had been requested, and,
indeed, such a permit had not been issued to the Memorial Association
to conduct their Christian worship services for years. It was simply
assumed by the city that the park would be reserved for these
services. Seizing a rare opportunity, Dr. Irons immediately made
application for use of the park on Easter morning. In the
"organization" blank of the application, Dr. Irons listed the Atheist
Coalition, despite the fact that he considers himself a practicing
Christian. Several weeks later, the Atheist Coalition membership
voted nearly unanimously to support Dr. Irons' Easter morning event.
This support was offered even though many members of the Coalition had
already made plans to attend a national atheists convention in the
Midwest on that weekend.

Under the guidance of Dr. Irons and activist Craig Kelso, the theme
for the Easter morning event became "The Park Belongs to Everyone". A
program of speakers was assembled from San Diego's diverse religious
and non-religious minority groups. The message went out that this
secular celebration was to welcome all citizens, without
concern for convictions or beliefs. This open invitation did not
appeal to the local media, which chose instead to cast this gathering
as a battle between atheists and Christians. The local newspapers
contained frequent stories and editorials on the usurpation of this
sacred ground by the childish and mean spirited atheists. The San
Diego Memorial Association refused to join in the celebration, opting
to reserve the park for Memorial Day, instead. One San Diego City
Councilman, who also happens to be a Baptist preacher, reserved the
park for the hour preceding the Atheist Coalition Easter
event, but front page headlines soon thereafter declared that God
himself had told this distinguished gentleman to withdraw his
reservation.

Many people climbed Mount Soledad on the morning of April 7th. With
sleep still in their eyes from the reinstantiation of daylight savings
time, people were forced by limited parking space to climb to the top
of the hill on foot. Arriving in darkness, members of the "The Park
Belongs to Everyone" committee quitely set up for their event while
television cameras captured the wild circus of street preachers and
angry Christian banner wavers which pranced about the cross. As the
sun crept above the mountains, the celebration of freedom and
diversity began.

Dr. Irons and Craig Kelso welcomed the crowd, which numbered between
200 and 300. The sound of their voices over the P.A. system was heard
by the demonstrators at the nearby cross, and a parade of banner
toting crusaders marched towards the podium. The motley crew of
anti-separationists included several bible thumpers shouting
hallelujahs, a mock Jesus bearing a large wooden cross and receiving
flogging by a woman wearing bunny-rabbit make-up, and a collection of
young muscular men wearing clothing reminiscent of inner city street
gangs, chanting "It's the blood that sets me free".

The disruption was significant, but the separationists went on. Scott
Nailor, speaking on behalf of the Atheist Coalition, shouted out his
piece, ignoring the drone of the protesters behind him. Television
cameras ignored his words and focused instead on any interaction that
showed promise of escalating into violence. Brave freethinkers and
other separationists stepped forward to quietly interpose their bodies
between the protesters and the speakers. Then, as if out of nowhere,
several uniformed officers of the San Diego Police Department appeared
and calmly enforced the park permit granted to Dr. Irons. The
Christian protesters were directed to keep their distance, and their
shouts and chants slowly died down to an occasional heckling.

JoAnne Harrison, speaking for the local wiccans, related the pagan
history of Easter. She was followed by the Reverend Tom Owen-Towle of
the First Unitarian Universalist Church. A musical interlude was then
provided by Vincent Clarke, an amiable elderly trombonist who had
played in years past for the Christian services held on Mount Soledad.
On this occasion, Mr. Clarke entertained the crowd with a selection of
secular show tunes.

June was chosen because it is a culturally significant month for the Native American tribes that the tower is sacred to. Many ceremonies take place in June culminating with the summer solstice.

It's been my experience that climbers should be proactive in building good relationships with the land managers of the public lands where climbing exists.

Thank you for starting this thread. Before, I was always determined to honor the June voluntary closure. I have been advocating for Native American rights my entire life whenever I have the opportunity to do so. Those who know me understand the passion I have for spreading accurate history as to what really happened here to the plains Indians, especially during the 1800's and on into today.

After learning more about this closure however, I am planning my Devil's Tower trip this year in the month of June. It will be nice to spend time in the Black Hills during the month of the sun dance.

Is it funny to anyone else that we are arguing about a 'voluntary' closure?

Some volunteer some don't. Do we yell at those and condemn those who don't volunteer for say, Yosemite Facelift or a trail maintenance day at your local crag?

The closure happens in June because our modern world follows the Roman calendar. It would be difficult to manage a closure that follows a lunar calendar or ceremonies that may take place at different times each year

It's difficult to tell people the date or dates when something will happen, so you just "round off" to the nearest month?

Let's make this concrete: what date or dates will there be ceremonies this year?
Do you know?
Can you find out?
Will there be any that are not in June?
What's the earliest date in June that the ceremonies happen?
What percentage of days in June are there ceremonies?
What times of day are the ceremonies typically at? How long do they typically last?
Where, specifically, do they occur?

are there any native americans who can explain the cultural significance and the closure

so basically the NPS, Access Fund, local climbing organizations and those "damn injuns" all came together in a vast conspiracy to deny whyte privilege climbers from climbing during a SINGLE MONTH of the year 2 decades ago ...

It's difficult to tell people the date or dates when something will happen, so you just "round off" to the nearest month?

Let's make this concrete: what date or dates will there be ceremonies this year?
Do you know?
Can you find out?
Will there be any that are not in June?
What's the earliest date in June that the ceremonies happen?
What percentage of days in June are there ceremonies?
What times of day are the ceremonies typically at? How long do they typically last?
Where, specifically, do they occur?

To answer your questions: No I can not tell you this information. The Native Americans who have ceremonies at the tower are not required to inform the NPS of the ceremonies and they do NOT want this information shared. This is why the closure is one specific month out of the year.

"It is within the existing authority of the monument Superintendent to close areas to certain activities to protect natural and cultural resources."

"The NPS maintains that future management actions could take place including a mandatory closure. The mandatory closure language is present to show that we are seriously committed to protecting a cultural resource and to acknowledge American Indian concerns. The NPS has the authority to implement a mandatory June closure, but hopes this will not be necessary."

What this statements from the CMP fails to note is that Supt Deb Ligget tried to use the cultural argument in the Petefish case. Judge Dowes said this case is not a cultural issue but it is a religious dispute. He told Deb Ligget to drop the subject of cultural issues.

The NPS land surrounding Devils Tower was/is for any measure devoid of any cultural artifacts. There are zero cultural artifacts on the sides or top of Devils Tower.

The document luquitos cited is outdated and/or intentionally failed to make reference to the court case as it makes no reference to some very strict rulings the Federal Judiciary Court of Dowes imposed on Climbing/Reulations at Devils Tower. In other words the argument of cultural resource destruction has little meaning for Native Americans spiritual practices being bothered by climbers on the Tower as the court insists these are religious issues and not cultural issues.

In early court cases of religious practice interferences the courts have ruled that background effects cannot be construed as a prevention of a person to practice his religion. For example a church on a noisy street cannot close the public street on Sunday because the traffic noises interfere with the quietness they need for their religious practices.

Based on these interpretations the Native Americans or Park Service have no legal grounds to claim that climbers on the sides of Devils Tower are preventing Native Americans from practicing their religion. In other words they have to tolerate far visual infringements and noises like a jet airliner flying over head as they do not prevent them from practising their religion.

Supt Deb Ligget was also unsuccessful in initiating an argument that the Tower was the [their] very monument the Native Americans needed for their religious practices and it had to be free of any other people's presence.

For more judiciary thinking on allowable infringements to one's religious practices see Badoni v. Higginson and some other cases have good discussions on this matter.

It looks like when you practise your religion you cannot have it such that when you look out a window there can be no one in the view. But you do have the freedom to build your church without windows.

. . .

Seems as if this thread is dying, as it should.

Folks such as Dingus Mcgee are the only ones bringing in anything relevant.

This is completely false. There are many documented artifacts and sites on the shoulders of the tower and near the tower within the monument. These are not advertised to the general public for the same reasons described above, and many of these sites were discovered .

after the climbing management plan was enacted

I find the European mentality of needing artifacts in order to confer cultural/spiritual importance to a certain place odd.
Perhaps the natives had a different mindset?

Would you leave trash at a place of spiritual importance to you?

Interesting debate going on

2017[edit]
On January 7, a Colonial Pipeline stubline leaked gasoline into Shoal Creek, in Chattanooga, Tennessee.[602]
On January 14, the Ozark Pipeline, an Enbridge, now Marathon, division, spilled about 18,900 gallons of light oil, at the Lawrence Pump Station, near Halltown, Missouri.[603]
On January 16, a gas pipeline exploded and burned, near Spearman, Texas. There were no injuries.[604]
On January 25, the Magellan pipeline leaked 138,600 gallons (3,300 barrels) of diesel fuel onto private agricultural land in Worth County, Iowa, near Hanlontown.[605]
On January 30, a Texas Department of Transportation crew dug into the 30 inch Seaway Pipeline, near Blue Ridge, Texas, spraying crude oil across road. About 210,000 gallons of crude were spilled. There were no injuries.[606][607]
On January 31, a DCP pipeline exploded under a runway, at Panola County Airport-Sharpe Field in Texas. There were no injuries, but the airport will shut that runway down for an extended amount of time.[608]
On February 10, a Phillips 66 natural gas liquids pipeline (TENDS pipeline Sorrento system)[609] near the Williams-Discovery natural gas plant on US Route 90 near Paradis, Louisiana exploded while being cleaned, killing one worker, and sending another worker to a burn unit. Traffic on US 90 and La 631 was shut down and residents in the area evacuated.[610][611]
On February 15, a 36-inch Kinder Morgan gas pipeline exploded and burned in Refugio County, Texas. There were no injuries.[612]
On February 27, a crude oil pipeline ruptured in Falls City, Texas. spilling about 42,630 gallons of crude oil. The cause was from internal corrosion.[613]
On March 29, a natural-gas leak of a high-pressure pipeline, in Providence, Rhode Island, owned by Spectra Energy, released about 19 million cubic feet of natural gas, or enough natural gas to heat and keep the lights on for 190,000 homes for a single day. Approximately two gallons of polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) were also released, in the form of contaminated natural gas condensate.[614]
On April 4, a pump on the Dakota Access Pipeline spilled about 84 gallons of oil, at a pump station in Tulra, South Dakota. The leak was not noticed until May 9.[615]
On April 21, a Plains All American Pipeline, experienced a crude oil release on the Buffalo Pipeline, near Loyal, Oklahoma. About 19,000 gallons of crude oil was spilled.[616]
On April 22, a 1,050-gallon oil pipeline spill near Bismarck, North Dakota polluted a tributary of the Little Missouri River, but was prevented from flowing into the larger waterway.[617]
On May 8, a Wood River Pipelines (part of Koch Industries) line broke in Warrensburg, Illinois, spill 250 gallons of crude oil.[618]

And there you have it: Trash is the evidence of a temple.

The NPS represents that it will not enforce the voluntary closure, but will instead rely on climbers' self-regulation and a new "cross-cultural educational program" "to motivate climbers and other park visitors to comply." Id. at 22.

Get off the Fuxking Tower you assaholas, No respect for Injuns.

A mandatory ban on climbing in June is only one option out of a broad spectrum,

did you understand the legal analysis that Dingus laid out in quite clearly?

Reid said tribal representatives felt a mandatory closure did not reflect the spirit of intent.

“June was the selected month,” said Reid. “And they wanted people to want to abstain from climbing out of respect for the sacred site status, and the cultural significance of the tower to 25-plus tribes in the intermountain area.”

And Reid said the climbers wanted the opportunity to show that their community could self-regulate. So, a voluntary closure made sense and it was put into the final draft of the climbing management plan.

Someone needs to go back to journalism school.

"“I cannot help but reflect on my time on the reservation, and I’ve had plenty of times on Rosebud and Pine Ridge, a lot of people there are as alcoholic as I am,” Sanders said.

Actually, studies show Native Americans abstain from alcohol use more than the general public."

What does the writer's non-sequitur about abstention have to do with propensity to alcoholism or number of alkis? You could make a plausible argument that more people abstain in the native populatin precisely because they have a higher genetic propensity toward alcoholism and can't do the moderation thing.

The percent of people abstaining has nothing to do with "a lot of people there" being alcoholics as Frank states. If general pop has 30% abstainers, 50% moderates, 20% alkis, and natives 40% abstainers, 20% mods, 40% alkis, you get my drift. I can forgive a green writer, but their editor should be ridiculed for allowing this bull puckey pass their desk.

Ken,

Go ahead and quote us what you are claiming is a "falsity" without putting words in someone's mouth or ascribing motive that you can't possibly know. Let's see the quote of what Frank actually said, not your imagined motive, that you claim was false.

I won't hold my breath waiting, because there was no "falsity" stated. There was, however, a non sequitur about abstention by the journalist.

I've only seen that the tower is culturally significant but not one person has said what this significance is? What is it?

Not climbing at a stupid rock for a month is a small enough gesture for what happened to them.

Rather, this closure is a tangible stamp of “We exist, we matter.”

Pretty funny Mike M . You forgot to add trustfunders to the pretentious Boulder climber part. Not only are they adding bolts to established trad routes in Boulder canyon, they are also adding bolts to adequately bolted sport routes too. Cheers